Blu-Ray: The last big jump?

[mhg83]

So before i purchased an hdtv and blu-ray i didn't really see a huge difference between standard definition and high def. Since watching a few movies in hd i can really tell theres a huge difference in picture quality. So It also had me thinking about the current video game consoles. There's always been a big leap in graphics to each generation. From Atari 4 bit to nintendo 8 bit to 16 bit to 32 bit and so on. You could really tell the difference in graphics capability. But then the current generation of consoles came out. from ps2 to ps3 or xbox to xbox 360 there wasnt that much of a leap in graphics. I still go back to my old ps2/xbox and the games still look really good. i think the next generation of gaming the improvement will be hard to see.

On the home video side the same can be applied. Going from vhs to laserdisc to dvd to hd dvd and blu ray theres big jump in picture quality. I really cant see how they can improve on the current p.q. in the next format. Will blu ray be the last big jump in picture quality?

[GizmoDVD]

For at least the next few years...yes.

[shaun3000]

BD isn't even that big of a jump compared to DVD. If you have a decent up-converting DVD player, BD doesn't look that much better unless you are looking for it. A lot of people can't see much of a difference between the two.

So yes, I think BD will probably be the last big jump. Same for the PS3 and XBox 360. I read an article a while back about video game consoles, saying just what the OP did about graphics improvements. They've reached the point with graphics where most people can't see that much of a difference between generations, so the focus is finally going into gameplay and ways to interact with the console. Look at the Wii compared to PS3 and XB. Keeping opinions out, the Wii has been an astounding success. The reason for that, many think, is the games are fun and intuitive without being overly-complicated, and the control method is new and fun.

[GenPion]

I hope it's the last big jump. I love the idea of collecting films and really, well, collecting them to own forever! I want my movie collection to always make me proud.

There's only so many times anyone, and I am referring to the majority of consumers, would even be willing to upgrade their movies. This is it I think.

[shaun3000]

I'm not upgrading unless it's one of my favorites ANd it would benefit. Most of the movies I have on DVD are fine but it's nice that the new purchases will have better picture and sound. The improvement isn't big enough to justify upgrading like the jump from VHS to DVD.

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by shaun3000

I'm not upgrading unless it's one of my favorites ANd it would benefit. Most of the movies I have on DVD are fine but it's nice that the new purchases will have better picture and sound. The improvement isn't big enough to justify upgrading like the jump from VHS to DVD.

It depends on the film, really... upgrades can be a huge benefit. It depends on so many factors it will, of course, be up to the purchaser to determine if an upgrade is worth it or not.

[DVD Polizei]

Originally Posted by mhg83

So before i purchased an hdtv and blu-ray i didn't really see a huge difference between standard definition and high def. Since watching a few movies in hd i can really tell theres a huge difference in picture quality. So It also had me thinking about the current video game consoles. There's always been a big leap in graphics to each generation. From Atari 4 bit to nintendo 8 bit to 16 bit to 32 bit and so on. You could really tell the difference in graphics capability. But then the current generation of consoles came out. from ps2 to ps3 or xbox to xbox 360 there wasnt that much of a leap in graphics. I still go back to my old ps2/xbox and the games still look really good. i think the next generation of gaming the improvement will be hard to see.

On the home video side the same can be applied. Going from vhs to laserdisc to dvd to hd dvd and blu ray theres big jump in picture quality. I really cant see how they can improve on the current p.q. in the next format. Will blu ray be the last big jump in picture quality?

I think you're asking whether 1920 x 1080 will be the last big jump in resolution. Because remember, Blu-ray is simply the medium where you're getting 1080 content. Blu-ray and 1080 just happen to co-exist at the moment.

So, no, 1080 won't be the last big jump. However, here's what I think what will happen. Blu-ray discs will support higher resolutions in the distant future, which will be backwards compatible.

What's going on at the moment, is manufacturers getting ready for the next step in resolution. Sounds absolutely crazy, but it's going on relatively unnoticed. Last month we had Pioneer unveil a 400GB 16-layer Blu-ray disc. They said it was actually compatible with current players. So, we have these types of working prototypes in the works already, and by the time we see a higher resolution announcement as a consumer offering (might be 1440 but who knows) around 2012 or so, the Videophiles will have a choice. Either buy the "typical 1080 transfer" or opt for the $50 (just a guess) extreme high-res transfer for their new 1440p HDTV.

There will NEVER be a stable resolution standard which will cap. The electronics industry's history proves this. We always have something better waiting in the shadows, just when we get used to one particular format. But this isn't really a bad thing.

Is Blu-ray the final medium where content is delivered? Well, considering manufacturers and studios want somekind of standard to last for a rather long time (like DVD) we should be ok. Blu-ray technoloy (or media disc technology overall) is advanced so much since the DVD. And we can continue to add capacity to the Blu-ray disc, as more resolution is wanted (but not necessarily needed) by the industry and consumer.

[beebs]

Originally Posted by shaun3000

BD isn't even that big of a jump compared to DVD. If you have a decent up-converting DVD player, BD doesn't look that much better unless you are looking for it.

Upconverted SD DVD can look incredible. On my 42" 1080p Plasma, sitting 5-6 feet away I really don't need BR for image quality.

I recently got a 1080p projector, though. A 106" image from 8-9' feet away really benefits from a good Blu-ray. The again, I've seen some of my SD DVDs on this projector... and they look amazing... even this big. Although, with the 42" screen, nearly every SD DVD looked great on it. With this PJ, it's only the best SD DVD transfers that look good.

-beebs

[darkside]

Its not the last big jump. 4K is the end all. The question is when will 4K TVs become available and will studios take the risk of releasing a 4K format. Definitely not going to happen for many years.

[RichC2]

I feel all alone not having a Watchmen icon now.

That said, no I don't think it's the last big jump, I also think upscaled DVD is hugely overrated (at least the upscaling done bythe XA2, Oppos, Denons and PS3) and doesn't come anywhere close to the quality of Blu -- neither on my folks 52" Samsung or my own 106" display.

Also, there is a very obvious difference between last gen and this gen of video games in terms of graphical quality, and as texture and programming quality progresses I expect to continue to see them, the big stopping point there? Cost of development.

[cisman]

I really think this is the last big jump as far as media in your hand goes. The only reason Bluray was even needed wast that our TV's got much bigger.

As one said above if you watch BR and DVD on a small TV there is no difference. But seeing it on my 65" HDTV there is a huge difference. While my set is no where near the largest you can get I see TV's only getting bigger and bigger but I think BR can handle the growth just fine so more that likely as far as PQ goes this is the last jump.

Now, I do think we'll see another movement in the area of streaming movies such as what you're seeing with netflix HD etc. It has a LONG way to go and will always face opposition from someone like me who likes to physically own a disc but I think that's the next big change we'll see.

[maxfisher]

I'm pretty firmly on the Blu-ray bandwagon now, but I'd say I see a much greater difference between Xbox/PS2 and 360/PS3 than I do between a Blu-ray and upscaled DVD. Seems like kind of a strange comparison in the first post.

[lizard]

Given that the new broadcast standards, 1080i and 720p, are likely to be with us for decades, it seems unlikely that there will be another mass shift to a higher resolution than the current 1080x1920.

We might see 1440p displays in the fairly near future, but they would likely be used to upscale 1080p Blu-ray Disc content. If a higher resolution medium was developed, it would be a niche within a niche and for serious videophiles willing to pay for the best. But diminishing returns from higher resolutions make it unlikely that there will be a mass adoption of such formats for the foreseeable future.

As for whether BD will be last, best, home theater medium, that is certainly not the case. VOD will continue to make inroads into the market, for those with access to broadband data connections. And flash memory based video delivery formats are being experimented with. It may well be that BD will be the last optical disc based format.

Nevertheless, Blu-ray Disc seems likely to be the best, widely available, physical home video format for some years to come.

[kefrank]

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei

Last month we had Pioneer unveil a 400GB 16-layer Blu-ray disc. They said it was actually compatible with current players.

Actually, Pioneer did not state that it was compatible with current players. That was misreporting by overzealous journalists. And even if it were, there would have to be massive advances in multi-layer replication to make anything beyond a dual-layer BD viable for pressed content. There's a reason DVD-18s are so scarce: as you add more layers, the replication yields drop considerably and those problems have still never been solved.

There will NEVER be a stable resolution standard which will cap. The electronics industry's history proves this. We always have something better waiting in the shadows, just when we get used to one particular format. But this isn't really a bad thing.

NTSC was around for decades. Broadcast resolution is what ultimately drives mass consumer display technology and I seriously doubt a standard beyond 1080p will be established for many, many years. The infrastructure changes required to go to ATSC were extremely significant and no one is going to be eager to do it all over again anytime soon. Displays with higher than 1080p resolution will surely be released, but I seriously doubt they will make inroads in the mass consumer area, because broadcast TV will still be at ATSC.

Is Blu-ray the final medium where content is delivered? Well, considering manufacturers and studios want somekind of standard to last for a rather long time (like DVD) we should be ok. Blu-ray technoloy (or media disc technology overall) is advanced so much since the DVD. And we can continue to add capacity to the Blu-ray disc, as more resolution is wanted (but not necessarily needed) by the industry and consumer.

It would take a lot more than greater capacity for Blu-ray to support any resolution greater than 1080p. It would take higher maximum bitrates, changes to the Blu-ray spec, and ultimately, new hardware. I'm confident that BD50s and Blu-ray players capped at 1080p are here for the long haul (at least 10 years) in the mainstream consumer market.

[DVD Josh]

Originally Posted by shaun3000

BD isn't even that big of a jump compared to DVD. If you have a decent up-converting DVD player, BD doesn't look that much better unless you are looking for it. A lot of people can't see much of a difference between the two.

LOL...man that was a good one.

[Drexl]

I think games still have a ways to go. Most console games aren't even 1080p. They haven't reached photorealism yet, and there are still issues with jagged edges (lack of anti-aliasing). Frame rates could be better. Certain objects like human faces are far from perfect. There's also a lot more that could be done to make the game worlds seem more alive. AI is still developing.

Of course, whether people even care about all that is another matter.

As for movies, they are getting into the issue of how much resolution we can see. I think that according to that resolution chart, you have to sit about 8 feet away from an 80" screen to appreciate 1440p. Most people aren't going to do that.

[atlantamoi]

Originally Posted by DVD Josh

LOL...man that was a good one.

Yeah, while I can't say I have huge issues with upscaled DVDs, they really don't look as good as a well done Blu-ray disc. I just popped in a recent purchase of Road Warrior and was smiling at how amazing it looks. As for the future, I never went nuts purchasing DVDs, but when Blu prices drop a bit more I plan on picking up a good sized collection.

[B5Erik]

I still don't think that the human eye can see the difference between 1080P and 4K on any screen under 60".

And I don't think that any higher resolution than 1080P will be anything but a small niche market for a long, long time.

Now, 1080P is a HUGE leap from standard def, and it can clearly be seen at screen sizes as small as 32" (Hell, I can see the difference on my 22" monitor), but beyond 1080P you just can't see the difference on standard sized (sub 60") screens.

[fumanstan]

I think it's the last big jump. Considering the amount of people who say Blu-ray doesn't look that much better from DVD, I think any additional advances will be considered miniscule by comparison.

[RockyMtnBri]

Here's the scary thing - I plan on my own visual acuity to drop, so that if we do jump to 4K resolution, I will no longer be able to discern it from 1080p. I'm 43 right now and wear glasses (I'll need bifocals or laser surgery soon) and I have a 92 inch screen where I watched my SD and BDs. I can tell the difference between a DVD upconverted via my PS3 and a native 1080p Blu-ray (I concur with altantamoi - Road Warrior looks great) right now, but who's to say in 5 or 10 years?

[naitram]

For 90% of the disc-based HD material I've watched, there is no comparison between that and upscaled SD-DVD. Only the very best DVDs look like they might be disguised as a mediocre HD-disc, and that is few and far between. Sorry, but the information just isn't there, no matter how much you upscale it.

But no, 1080 won't be the last jump...though Blu-ray may be the last new disc-based format.

[namja]

Originally Posted by naitram

But no, 1080 won't be the last jump...though Blu-ray may be the last new disc-based format.

In terms of PQ for the mass market, I believe that 1080p is the last big jump. People have a hard enough time already with differentiating between upconverted DVD and Blu-ray. Anything higher is like giving people SA-CD as a superior alternative to the CD: it may be better in quality, but almost nobody will be able to tell (or care enough).

As for Blu-ray being the last disc-based format ... maybe. I think it will have a 15 year life. Then it'll be replaced by something with much bigger capacity, if for no other reason, because computers will require it. Something that can hold 1 TB or maybe even more. Maybe it'll be a disc. Or a form of solid state cartridge.

[WiiDSmoker]

the last big jump will be the resolution at which our eyes are at...which is 576 megapixels. but that will be a long time before we get to there

[mhg83]

Originally Posted by namja

In terms of PQ for the mass market, I believe that 1080p is the last big jump. People have a hard enough time already with differentiating between upconverted DVD and Blu-ray. Anything higher is like giving people SA-CD as a superior alternative to the CD: it may be better in quality, but almost nobody will be able to tell (or care enough).

As for Blu-ray being the last disc-based format ... maybe. I think it will have a 15 year life. Then it'll be replaced by something with much bigger capacity, if for no other reason, because computers will require it. Something that can hold 1 TB or maybe even more. Maybe it'll be a disc. Or a form of solid state cartridge.

There are plans to make a 1tb bd by 2012. That makes one wonder if a higher resolution will be released by then.

[Drexl]

Originally Posted by mhg83

There are plans to make a 1tb bd by 2012. That makes one wonder if a higher resolution will be released by then.

It's doubtful, since it would have to be positioned and marketed as a whole new format (even if the disc structure is the same).