Joe Schmoe

This isn't really home theater equipment, so I guess this belongs in the HD Talk forum...

As far as I know, HD camcorders record on tape, a hard drive or mini DVDs. First, how does a camcorder record an HD picture onto a mini DVD? Is that possible? Second, what are you supposed to do when the tape/hard drive/or mini DVD gets full... Are there machines that will let you copy the HD footage in the camera to a Blu-ray or HD-DVD disc so you can free up the media used in the camcorder? Copying the material to another hard drive or DVR doesn't gain much because eventually that will fill up too.

Spiky

Canon's DVD model records HD in AVC format on DVDs, and claims to be playable on a BD player directly. But I think most people download to their computer from whatever media the camcorder uses. (although MiniDV users might just keep the tapes) From there they can make DVDs or just store on the hard drive. HDDs are pretty cheap these days. For $400 you can have a couple TBs.

BTW, they also record to memory cards.

El Kabong

I wondered this as well. I'm going to get one soon, probably Canon HG-10 or HR-10. Hg-10 says it's Bluray compatable & HR-10 is HDD. Would a regular dvd with HD content play in HD? And for the HDD, wouldn't that fill up fast and do you just hook the camera to the tv to view in HD? And mini-dvds hold less than half hour of hD? Anyone that has one care to explain how you record, copy , burn, watch, etc.?

Spiky

Well, first off the best media to use would be tape or solid state like SD card. Because of the skipping possibilities with spinning discs. That is a non-HD-related issue.

As you said, all of these are going to fill up fast with HD. You will simply have to deal with that somehow. Flash memory is getting bigger and bigger, but it is still expensive. I'm guessing the HDD models hold the most.

Joe Schmoe

Thanks for the responses. I think I'm going to hold off getting an HD camcorder until the electronic companies come up with a better/cheaper solution. Right now, I record SD on mini discs, transfer that footage to regular DVDs, and then delete the footage on the mini discs. It's not HD, but at least DVD recorders are reasonably priced now. I wouldn't want to buy an HD camcorder, record in HD and then have to downgrade the footage to SD quality in order to transfer it to a normal DVD. And I also don't want to start flilling up hard drives with HD content.

needamazing

HDD has nothing to do with HD video it just refers to Hard Drive Device I believe. They are confusing many consumers this way. You will not find a camcorder that can record HD video for only $400.

HD video cannot be recorded on a Standard DVD.

You will need to purchase a BluRay Drive for your computer and burn the HD video from the HD Camcorder to a BluRay disc.

Hope this helps but the HDD acronym is confusing many people including myself for a while there.

El Kabong

I knew what the HDD was, the HR-10 has 60GB I think. But, you know for sure that you'd have to burn the HR-10 to a Bluray? They make it sound like the discs you record on are Bluray compatable. Their website specifically says "records HD video to DVD. DVD-R, -RW, -R DL", and if you click that it says "Play back you memories in HD on compatible Bluray players". That sure sounds like the dvds you record on are playable- it says record HD on DVD. Why did you say it didn't? Do you have one or are you just guessing?

El Kabong

Here's a link to the Canon.
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=15264

El Kabong

Sorry to repost again, but you're definitely wrong. Thanks for confusing people by saying it wasn't possible. Read the camera features.
"An advantage of the AVCHD format is that it captures twice as much video using less storage onto DVDs which play in AVCHD compatible Blu-ray disc players"
and
"Added to the HR10's handy size is the convenience of shooting high definition on DVD"
So, I'm pretty sure Canon knows more about their cameras than you. Since Bluray looks like the winner I think I'll be ordering one this week.

obidawsn

DVDs store data. Therefore, whether SD or HD, it's still data. A regular DVD can store HD content, just not as much. I know there are ways to record onto regular DVDs that will play on HD-DVD players, but since HD-DVD seems to be going the way of the laserdisc, looking for Blu-Ray options might be the best option. But either way, saying that DVDs can't record HD isn't correct at all. It just has to be done properly. Now whether or not they are able to play on Blu-Ray players is a different story. But since Blu-Ray players can read regular DVDs, then storing HD information on that DVD that Blu-Ray can understand and play out, then I don't see why not. Of course, that would depend on if Sony (or the Blu-ray manufacturer of your choice) put that capability on your player. But I say if Canon says it's doable with that camera, they know what they are talking about.

cultshock

It most certainly can (as already mentioned), but admittedly, it couldn't hold a great amount (compared to a BD-R).

I do agree that the whole HD/HDD thing is causing confusion for some camcorder shoppers.

El Kabong

Just ordered it from Canon & should have it by Thursday. I'll let you know how it works. I have a PS3, so I should be good since Sony seems to update it all the time with the latest features before any other players (only player that has 1.1 PIP so far I think). Canon's site says it will hold 1 hour on a dual-layer dvd, but not sure if that's HD or SD. It has no light accesory which is kind of weird. I hope it's not like my Sony digital camcorder, which could use more than the attachable light provides.

cultshock

One hour on a dual layer disc? That should be HD, as I can easily put at least an hour of SD camcorder footage on a single layer disc, at the highest quality setting.

jeffrey r

I have the Canon HV20, which is an amazing HD camcorder that can be picked up for under $700 these days. It records onto mini-DV tapes, and a 60 minute tape records the same 60 minutes in HD as it would in SD. Everything operates exactly as an SD camcorder would, except for the recording in glorious HD of course.

To view directly from the HV20, I connect the HV20 to an HDTV using a standard male-male HDMI cable. The picture is amazing. To dump it, I use firewire from the HV20 to my Pioneer 520 DVD Recorder. Since my DVD Recorder cannot record HD, I set up the HV20 to downconvert the HD to SD inside the camera, but it transfers to the DVD Recorder in full anamorphic widescreen. The results are excellent.

One can also dump HD onto their computers, but I believe this process can be a bit clunky at this stage.

I would highly recommend the HD route with camcorders. The HV20 is very affordable these days.

Ocelot

Glad someone asked

I got the Sony HDR-SR5 40gb HD camcorder like half year ago ($892 from Amazon). It worth every penny! I filmed my kids school plays, friends' parties, outdoor activities etc... The HD moments well worth the investment

Now, for the technical part... The camcorder comes with the basic software that allows you convert the footage into dvd or retain HD quality footages on dvd disc (about 30 mins for one layered blank dvd disc). The standard dvd quality is very good too (that's what i did for people don't have hd media players). As for HD contents on the dvd disc, the dvd disc is labeled AVCHD dvd, which can only be played via players that can handle such format. Converting the footage to the various formats takes a while (the process itself is very simple, just that the processing takes time and depends on your computer power too).

Now, if the footages are short (like few minutes), you can transport them on the memory cards and have the PS3 play the AVCHD files directly! Nice right ? Then you can choose to copy the files into the PS3's HDD, pretty cool too

So, basically, my 40gb camcorder is way more than enough to film for any occasions.

The one thing i didn't test is streaming the AVCHD files from the PC using the PS3. Well, in my case, it's simpler to copy the file to memory cards...

Ocelot

yes, i agree with the confusion over the HD and HDD notation...

HD - High Definition
HDD - Hard Drive

On the HD HDD camcorder, you should see both notations. On the non-HD hard drive camcorder, you probably only going to see HDD notation on the camcorder body.

RoboDad

I hesitate to add this, since I know how some people feel about Sony products, but they have released a new DVD recorder that doesn't require a PC, and allows you to connect an SD or HD camcorder or any of the popular memory card formats, and produce a DVD that is playable in Blu-ray players.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...direct_gglsrch

Ocelot

RoboDad, thanks for the info... actually, i have heard about this device. I think i'll get one of those Why? I still got the old tapes i want to convert to digital format and in sd dvd format. I don't know about the price, but it shouldn't too bad (oh the link says $230, silly me). I don't like Sony, but i don't hate them either. Of course with the recorder, authoring dvds and AVCHD discs even faster/easier. With cheaper double layered blank dvd prices, i think it's a fairly cheap way to go HD on dvd discs

Of course, ultimately, i want the AVCHD discs on BD, so no more 30 or 60 minutes limitation... However, writable BD and blank BD media are too new and too pricey for my current objectives.

needamazing

I apologize for the inaccurate and confusing post. I have learned something new now also. I did not mean to confuse. That's what I get for trying to help where I am not an expert.

Melencio

This is what I'm currently doing:
I have a Canon HV20. It's an excellent HD camcorder and I'd recommend it to anyone who wants to upgrade into HD camcorders.
Via firewire, I rip the contents from my tape (I use HDVSplit for its scene-splitting by timestamp and name each footage by the datetime stamp, but you can use any other app) to my hard drive. I then edit the footage using Sony Vegas Studio (again, use whatever editor you're comfortable with).

I then use Nero Vision that's included in Nero 8 Ultra edition and burn the HD footage I've edited, into a PLAIN OLD DVD in AVCHD format. Nero Vision will step you through the creation of the disc. It even allows you to add Menus and chapters(some even in 3D). I then take the finished disc and play it on my PS3, and it plays everytime.

The only issue (though it doesn't really bother me much) is that I can't seem to fit a full hour's worth of video into 1 DVD if I add a menu to the disc.

TheBang

I also have a Canon HV20 that I bought in Nov., just before a vacation to Japan. I hooked it up to my new 52" Samsung LCD I got for Christmas, and I must say, the footage is absolutely gorgeous.

Here's some footage that I shot at an Underworld concert in Osaka.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=PRW8FGZI

I think I used the full 10x optical zoom range in this footage, so you can see that, as well as its low-light performance. I shot this in the HV20's 1080/24p mode. I used the Canon DM50 hotshoe mic for the sound. The internal mic is not too bad, but the hotshoe mic sounds a little better for stuff like the concert I recorded.

Any blocking artifacts you see are due to the aggressive compression I applied to get it down to a reasonable file size for Internet download.

As for what to do with the footage once I've shot it? For now, I'm leaving it on the HDV tapes. I'll probably try to author it to native Blu-ray format using Adobe Encore, but I need BD-R burners and media to become a little more affordable before I can burn it. I'm also hoping for better Blu-ray support from Apple soon too.