Release List Reviews Shop Join News DVD Giveaways Video Games Advertise
DVD Reviews | Theatrical Reviews | Adult DVD Reviews | Video Game Reviews | Price Search Buy Stuff Here
DVD Talk
DVD Reviews DVD Talk Headlines HD Reviews


Add to My Yahoo! - RSS 2.0 - RSS 2.0 - DVD Talk Podcast RSS -


Go Back   DVD Talk Forum > DVD Discussions > HD Talk

HD Talk The place to discuss HD DVD, Blu-ray and all other forms and formats of HD and HDTV.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-25-06, 10:17 AM   #1
digitalfreaknyc
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,957
BTB/HDMI clipping problems?

Can anyone please explain them?
It's rumored BD will have the same problems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-06, 10:58 AM   #2
Spiky
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 6,659
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=460

It is an error by the manufacturers. Nothing using HDMI should clip black or white signals.
__________________
Ignorance vs Bliss
--Wizdar
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-06, 11:05 AM   #3
digitalfreaknyc
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiky
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=460

It is an error by the manufacturers. Nothing using HDMI should clip black or white signals.
I figured you'd respond, you arrogant sunovagun, you

I guess I'm just looking for a problem where I see none. Obviously it's a problem for some people and I just am wondering why my simple eyes can't see it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-06, 11:24 AM   #4
mbs
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
mbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,519
This problem with the HD-DVD player should be fixable, right (either in a 2nd generation player or via firmware)?

Meanwhile, Blu-Ray discs will have this issue on them directly, right (thereby rendering all Blu-Ray discs "defective" until they fix this issue)?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-06, 11:27 AM   #5
digitalfreaknyc
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbs
This problem with the HD-DVD player should be fixable, right (either in a 2nd generation player or via firmware)?

Meanwhile, Blu-Ray discs will have this issue on them directly, right (thereby rendering all Blu-Ray discs "defective" until they fix this issue)?
Correct.

From what we're told, HD DVD will be fixed via firmware.

BD discs are being encoded that way.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-06, 11:33 AM   #6
Spiky
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 6,659
Sucks to be so predictable!

This particular problem (A1) is not the worst, I imagine. If you really want bad, you'd have to set up a dark TV show with the wrong settings. Like watching a dark SD show through an HD tuner with the TV set incorrectly. I remember watching something, ST:NG rerun perhaps, when my PJ could still be set wrong before a firmware upgrade. (also a Toshiba, they must forget about this on every product) The HDMI could be set incorrectly and clip black. There were moments when 1/3 of the screen went to all one color, it was clearly obvious and horrible. Once I got the settings straightened out, it was ok. (NTSC is never more than ok)

I don't have the A1 to verify, but I'm sure you could see the effect with a test screen for contrast/brightness or a pluge signal. And eventually you'd start seeing it on movies, as well. Esp dark films that you watch repeatedly. You'd be missing some detail. I wouldn't really recommend that you go looking for artifacts like this, all they really do is reduce your enjoyment of the show once you are accustomed to them. But if they come out with a firmware upgrade to fix it, definitely go for it.
__________________
Ignorance vs Bliss
--Wizdar
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-06, 11:37 AM   #7
Spiky
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 6,659
Hmm. I wonder. My PJ had a black level adjustment, called NTSC Level. Now, that was just supposed to affect the composite and Svideo inputs, of course. Problem was that it affected ALL the inputs. You'd have to go back to Svideo and change it to get HDMI correct. A firmware upgrade locked the HDMI setting to the proper level.

So, no doubt the A1 can be fixed with an update. But I'm wondering if changing the settings could alter the output? I assume it has this setting for Svideo output for DVDs. (not HDDVDs)
__________________
Ignorance vs Bliss
--Wizdar
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-06, 04:43 PM   #8
darkside
DVD Talk Legend
 
darkside's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 19,833
The A1 problem is obvious when you use a pluge signal. However, it is only on the HDMI thankfully so I am sticking with the component output for now. It would be nice if they would fix this though.

I also would like to see more evidence of the Blu-ray problem being on the disc encodes. One would think something like that couldn't happen.
__________________
DVDAF/DVD Profiler/Games
Wii Code: 6061 0636 6661 8088
PSN & XBL: aagstn
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-06, 08:40 PM   #9
DthRdrX
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Pa
Posts: 8,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkside
The A1 problem is obvious when you use a pluge signal. However, it is only on the HDMI thankfully so I am sticking with the component output for now. It would be nice if they would fix this though.

I also would like to see more evidence of the Blu-ray problem being on the disc encodes. One would think something like that couldn't happen.
sspears on AVS was indeed saying the the initial BR discs are all going to be clipping due to the MPEG encoder used. I guess we'll see but I'm not buying any BR discs until this is known.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-06, 10:18 PM   #10
darkside
DVD Talk Legend
 
darkside's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 19,833
I just can't see how a format aimed at high end video customers for at least its first year due to player costs could make a mistake like that. What is the point of high def video then?
__________________
DVDAF/DVD Profiler/Games
Wii Code: 6061 0636 6661 8088
PSN & XBL: aagstn
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-06, 10:42 PM   #11
DthRdrX
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Pa
Posts: 8,127
Here is some of what he posted in various posts....

"Got some bad news on the Sony MPEG2 encoder. It is clipping head and toe room on encode. The THX optimode pattern on one of the upcoming BD titles is busted because of it. On top of that, the Samsung is also clipping head and toe room."

"Yes, that is correct, both are clipping as of today. A different BD player may not clip, but the content has already been clipped if it used the Sony MPEG2 encoder for BD. If they use another encoder, such as the Sonic Cinevision, then they would be OK.
I know the Sonic encoders, our VC-1 and Toshiba's AVC do not clip."

The Sony encoder is fed from HD-SDI, no file sources. When feeding in from D5, the encoder clips. When capturing the same D5 and feeding into the Sonic MPEG2 encoder, everything is good to go.

"The THX clips, while originating from a Mac, were dumped to D5 and then fed from the D5 into the Sony encoder. "
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:05 PM.

Rules - DVD Talk - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
Copyright 2011 DVDTalk.com All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.