MicroSoft wants Java out of Blu-Ray
01-16-06, 12:55 PM
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MicroSoft wants Java out of Blu-Ray
I saw this article which reinforces the assertion I've been making that MS just wants Java out at all costs.
From Video Business
From Video Business
Originally Posted by VideoBusiness
However, the real significance of Java and Java-based applications is that they can run on any device regardless of the operating system being used. Therefore, the adoption of OCAP represents a significant blow to Microsoft, which has high hopes for embedding its Windows operating system into any and all home network devices.
By making the applications that consumers will actually use independent of the operating system, OCAP will free device makers to use systems other than Windows, such as the open-source Linux.
Like England and France in the 18th century, the global struggle for control of the living room between Microsoft and Sun has spilled over into the battle between Blu-ray and HD DVD. The two high-tech companies, in fact, have lately emerged as among the fiercest antagonists in the fight.
Fearing another Sun beachhead in the living room, Microsoft has battled mightily to get the BD-Java interactive layer stripped from the Blu-ray format specs, so far unsuccessfully.
Barring BD-J’s removal, Microsoft is doing everything it can to ensure Blu-ray’s defeat in the marketplace—by leaving it out of the upcoming Vista version of Windows, for instance, and announcing plans to ship HD DVD drives as an add-on to the Xbox 360 game system.
By making the applications that consumers will actually use independent of the operating system, OCAP will free device makers to use systems other than Windows, such as the open-source Linux.
Like England and France in the 18th century, the global struggle for control of the living room between Microsoft and Sun has spilled over into the battle between Blu-ray and HD DVD. The two high-tech companies, in fact, have lately emerged as among the fiercest antagonists in the fight.
Fearing another Sun beachhead in the living room, Microsoft has battled mightily to get the BD-Java interactive layer stripped from the Blu-ray format specs, so far unsuccessfully.
Barring BD-J’s removal, Microsoft is doing everything it can to ensure Blu-ray’s defeat in the marketplace—by leaving it out of the upcoming Vista version of Windows, for instance, and announcing plans to ship HD DVD drives as an add-on to the Xbox 360 game system.
01-16-06, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Mordred
Didn't realize that Blu-Ray wouldn't natively play in Vista. Good thing Microsoft is returning to form as the evil empire.
01-16-06, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Mordred
Didn't realize that Blu-Ray wouldn't natively play in Vista. Good thing Microsoft is returning to form as the evil empire.
Of course, if you buy a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray PC drive, you already you'll have to install the software off the disc anyway. I'm not exactly sure why this extra step is being so highly toughted by Microsoft. The only people who would have to worry about it, are those who upgrade or build computers, and those people all know how to install drivers.
01-16-06, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Iron_Giant
But, the are not a "Monopoly" (wink, wink...)
01-16-06, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
Technically, HD-DVD won't either. It will be similar to DVDs, where Windows will recognize that a HD-DVD disc has been entered, but won't be able to play movies off it.
Of course, if you buy a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray PC drive, you already you'll have to install the software off the disc anyway. I'm not exactly sure why this extra step is being so highly toughted by Microsoft. The only people who would have to worry about it, are those who upgrade or build computers, and those people all know how to install drivers.
Of course, if you buy a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray PC drive, you already you'll have to install the software off the disc anyway. I'm not exactly sure why this extra step is being so highly toughted by Microsoft. The only people who would have to worry about it, are those who upgrade or build computers, and those people all know how to install drivers.
You're right it's not really a big deal anyway because you have to buy a player and that comes with software, but native support is always better than having to deal with 3rd party codecs.
01-17-06, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
Technically, HD-DVD won't either. It will be similar to DVDs, where Windows will recognize that a HD-DVD disc has been entered, but won't be able to play movies off it.
Of course, if you buy a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray PC drive, you already you'll have to install the software off the disc anyway. I'm not exactly sure why this extra step is being so highly toughted by Microsoft. The only people who would have to worry about it, are those who upgrade or build computers, and those people all know how to install drivers.
Of course, if you buy a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray PC drive, you already you'll have to install the software off the disc anyway. I'm not exactly sure why this extra step is being so highly toughted by Microsoft. The only people who would have to worry about it, are those who upgrade or build computers, and those people all know how to install drivers.
Let's back up first: With current DVD, when you purchase a player, part of the cost of that player is a license to decode the disc. In WindowsXP, until you install an application to decode DVDs, you can't play DVD video. This license is also part of the purchase price of the XBox DVD playback kit. Sony bundled the license with the PS2.
The new Windows Vista OS will support HD-DVD naitively, which means you won't need to install an application just to watch movies. Of course, Windows Media Player is hardly the best playback software there is so there will probably be more fully featured software made.
With BR, since the tech isn't supported naitively, you will have to provide Windows Vista a driver to decode the discs.
WindowsXP will surely require such a system for BR and HD discs as well, unless they release a new version or update to WMP to allow naitive playback of HD-DVD.
It is a driver but not a driver like a video or sound driver. I'd imagine if these drives are ATAPI, Windows will still be able to access the files on the discs even without any special software.
What does this mean? When you buy Windows Vista, a part of the purchase price of the software goes to the HD-DVD patent owners. When you purchase that BR drive, in theory it will be a bit more expensive to cover the cost of the license.
01-17-06, 07:50 AM
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Jim,
That would be interesting if Microsoft rubbed out some more companies by including HD-DVD movie playback. I guess its the least we can expect after they provide a firewall and virus protection.
Mordred,
XP does not playback DVDs without purchase of a plug-in.
That would be interesting if Microsoft rubbed out some more companies by including HD-DVD movie playback. I guess its the least we can expect after they provide a firewall and virus protection.
Mordred,
XP does not playback DVDs without purchase of a plug-in.
01-17-06, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Jim,
That would be interesting if Microsoft rubbed out some more companies by including HD-DVD movie playback. I guess its the least we can expect after they provide a firewall and virus protection.
Mordred,
XP does not playback DVDs without purchase of a plug-in.
XP will play DVDs with Windows Media Player 10. The plug-in is already in WMP 10 so there is no need to install one.
Jim,
That would be interesting if Microsoft rubbed out some more companies by including HD-DVD movie playback. I guess its the least we can expect after they provide a firewall and virus protection.
Mordred,
XP does not playback DVDs without purchase of a plug-in.
XP will play DVDs with Windows Media Player 10. The plug-in is already in WMP 10 so there is no need to install one.
01-17-06, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
If they were, they wouldn't need to be doing anything. The fact that they are trying unsucessfully to do something seems to bolster the argument that they are not a monopoly.
Microsoft has a monopoly on the desktop OS market. Since every piece of software depends on the OS, having the full support of the OS (by drivers built-in or other infrastructure build-in) it is a huge advantage. That is how MS crushed Netscape-- by bundling a free internet browser (IE) into the OS that the user didn't have to download or install it. Since it was written and tested along with the OS, it always was ahead of Netscape because it was ready as soon as Windows was released. Big advantage. MS has a history of this type of abuse.
The examples go on and on, but one more court conviction for fun. Remember when MS was convicted because they threatened computer manufacturers (such as Dell)? MS told Dell that if Dell offered the option that their computers ship pre-installed with a Linux OS then MS was going to charge full price for Windows and MS Office software for Dell PCs-- doubling the price of some models and making it impossible to compete with other PC manufacturers.
These are reasons why I hope that whatever format MS supports fails.
01-17-06, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by awmurray
Monopolies aren't monopolies of everything. The power company, for example, has little power outside of its area. Since HD discs will be used by PCs, however, MS has considerable pull.
Microsoft has a monopoly on the desktop OS market. Since every piece of software depends on the OS, having the full support of the OS (by drivers built-in or other infrastructure build-in) it is a huge advantage. That is how MS crushed Netscape-- by bundling a free internet browser (IE) into the OS that the user didn't have to download or install it. Since it was written and tested along with the OS, it always was ahead of Netscape because it was ready as soon as Windows was released. Big advantage. MS has a history of this type of abuse.
The examples go on and on, but one more court conviction for fun. Remember when MS was convicted because they threatened computer manufacturers (such as Dell)? MS told Dell that if Dell offered the option that their computers ship pre-installed with a Linux OS then MS was going to charge full price for Windows and MS Office software for Dell PCs-- doubling the price of some models and making it impossible to compete with other PC manufacturers.
These are reasons why I hope that whatever format MS supports fails.
Microsoft has a monopoly on the desktop OS market. Since every piece of software depends on the OS, having the full support of the OS (by drivers built-in or other infrastructure build-in) it is a huge advantage. That is how MS crushed Netscape-- by bundling a free internet browser (IE) into the OS that the user didn't have to download or install it. Since it was written and tested along with the OS, it always was ahead of Netscape because it was ready as soon as Windows was released. Big advantage. MS has a history of this type of abuse.
The examples go on and on, but one more court conviction for fun. Remember when MS was convicted because they threatened computer manufacturers (such as Dell)? MS told Dell that if Dell offered the option that their computers ship pre-installed with a Linux OS then MS was going to charge full price for Windows and MS Office software for Dell PCs-- doubling the price of some models and making it impossible to compete with other PC manufacturers.
These are reasons why I hope that whatever format MS supports fails.
01-17-06, 11:23 AM
#13
Originally Posted by awmurray
The examples go on and on, but one more court conviction for fun. Remember when MS was convicted because they threatened computer manufacturers (such as Dell)? MS told Dell that if Dell offered the option that their computers ship pre-installed with a Linux OS then MS was going to charge full price for Windows and MS Office software for Dell PCs-- doubling the price of some models and making it impossible to compete with other PC manufacturers.
.
.
01-17-06, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wearetheborg
I was not aware of that. Have any links ?
Originally Posted by DOJ Findings of Fact Section
64. An aspect of Microsoft's pricing behavior that, while not tending to prove monopoly power, is consistent with it is the fact that the firm charges different OEMs different prices for Windows, depending on the degree to which the individual OEMs comply with Microsoft's wishes. Among the five largest OEMs, Gateway and IBM, which in various ways have resisted Microsoft's efforts to enlist them in its efforts to preserve the applications barrier to entry, pay higher prices than Compaq, Dell, and Hewlett-Packard, which have pursued less contentious relationships with Microsoft.
This was just one example I remembered off the top of my head. There are many others.
01-17-06, 02:18 PM
#15
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Originally Posted by TheKobra
XP does not playback DVDs without purchase of a plug-in.
XP will play DVDs with Windows Media Player 10. The plug-in is already in WMP 10 so there is no need to install one.
XP will play DVDs with Windows Media Player 10. The plug-in is already in WMP 10 so there is no need to install one.
