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Anandtech on Blu-ray vs. DVD Image Quality

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Anandtech on Blu-ray vs. DVD Image Quality

Old 01-10-06, 03:36 PM
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Anandtech on Blu-ray vs. DVD Image Quality

One thing we did get a good chance to see at the show was a number of live Blu-ray and HD-DVD demonstrations with real high-definition content, and honestly, we weren't all that impressed. Don't get us wrong, it looked good, just not breathtaking or anything like that
.

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/...px?i=2666&p=13
Old 01-10-06, 03:44 PM
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This is what many of us have been wondering all along: will the perceived image quality be that great? If the perceived PQ isn't all that great on 46" HDTVs than that is a hard sell to the general public.

Also, the pictures in that article prove that the "demo" pictures were doctored in order to cripple DVD in this thread:

Picture Quality of Blu-Ray

Notice that in these pictures from anandtech.com, the color saturation is basially identical between DVD and Blu-Ray.
Old 01-10-06, 03:51 PM
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Gee, did we talk about this once upon a time?
Old 01-10-06, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiky
Gee, did we talk about this once upon a time?
Yea, but this one has pictures. If you look at the pictures on the link Easy provided, it really looks like the upscaled DVD picture holds its own against the Blu-Ray version.

I realize that a picture of a picture isn't really a great indicator, but it does support the notion that the perceived PQ increase from DVD to BR/HD-DVD will not be as great of an increase as from VHS to DVD. If you put a VHS vs. DVD picture up like those, you'd certainly be able to tell the difference. As it is, you couldn't pick which of those was upscaled DVD vs. Blu-Ray unless they had labled them.
Old 01-10-06, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by awmurray
I realize that a picture of a picture isn't really a great indicator
Not only is it not a great indicator, but its usefulness dwindles further with as small as the comparison shots are. VHS and DVD can look nearly identical if you size them down far enough too. A big part of the advantage is resolution -- a comparison that saps away all of the resolution isn't meaningful.

I don't think their argument is ridiculous -- I see HD as being a more incremental improvement too than VHS/DVD, although I appreciate it much more than they seem to -- but anyone who sees those comparison images shouldn't let that alone turn them away from buying into HD. Do the comparison first-hand and make the assessment yourself.
Old 01-10-06, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
Not only is it not a great indicator, but its usefulness dwindles further with as small as the comparison shots are. VHS and DVD can look nearly identical if you size them down far enough too. A big part of the advantage is resolution -- a comparison that saps away all of the resolution isn't meaningful.
This is all true, but not only was I considering the pictures, but the eye-witness accounts agree with what the pictures are showing.

Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
...
I see HD as being a more incremental improvement too than VHS/DVD, although I appreciate it much more than they seem to
...
Do the comparison first-hand and make the assessment yourself.
Yes everyone should definitely do their own assessments, of course.

But, I've been questioning the amount of perceived increase in PQ for a long time based on what I've seen DVD do on good transfers using an XGA LCD projector with progressive scan players. And I'm not even talking about upscaling the DVD, just plain old 480p.
Old 01-10-06, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by awmurray
But, I've been questioning the amount of perceived increase in PQ for a long time based on what I've seen DVD do on good transfers using an XGA LCD projector with progressive scan players.
I'll give you an open invitation to come to my house and compare an HD movie with its DVD equivalent. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD should look better than what I'm getting over cable too.
Old 01-10-06, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by awmurray
This is what many of us have been wondering all along: will the perceived image quality be that great? If the perceived PQ isn't all that great on 46" HDTVs than that is a hard sell to the general public.
Exactly. I thought this guy's opinion was interesting simply because he was there covering mostly computer gear and I saw him as an "average guy" in the av area. I suspect this is going to be the reaction of most "average guys" and HD will be a much tougher sell that some believe... especially if the purchase of expensive equipment is involved.
Old 01-10-06, 05:36 PM
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Those pics are about as good an indicator as you are going to get without seeing it firsthand. you need to look close at both pics and can spot some differences.

The one that jumps right out is that the building seems to have a reddish-pink tint to it on the dvd side.
Old 01-10-06, 05:43 PM
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Here are some more images...
Someone at HTF posted the link.
http://www.cornbread.org/FOTRCompare/
Old 01-10-06, 06:13 PM
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Nice!
Old 01-10-06, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Easy
Exactly. I thought this guy's opinion was interesting simply because he was there covering mostly computer gear and I saw him as an "average guy" in the av area.
I couldn't disagree more. These guys strike me as jaded from seeing new tech early all the time. Kind of a been there done that attitude than an impartial one.

These guys are hardly J6P.
Old 01-10-06, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Easy
Here are some more images...
Someone at HTF posted the link.
http://www.cornbread.org/FOTRCompare/
I think I just filled the cup!
Old 01-10-06, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
These guys strike me as jaded from seeing new tech early all the time. Kind of a been there done that attitude than an impartial one.
While I agree that Anandtech writers aren't indicative of the crowd who does their electronics shopping at Wal-Mart, I get the impression from that article that these guys have never seen (or at least paid much attention) to anything in high-definition before.
Old 01-10-06, 07:55 PM
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Those LOTR comparisons are dramatic...even on my 14" computer monitor.

I can just imagine how it would look on my 57" Sony display.
Old 01-10-06, 11:33 PM
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I had my brother switch the stills while I stood about 7 feet away. The HD does look a TIDBIT better but it mostly looks just a little darker. I'm not really impressed. Try to do this and see what you think as well. Up close from the screen, the results are dramatic.
Old 01-11-06, 12:14 AM
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There were a lot of reasons to switch from VHS to DVD. Most of us will end up with a HD player of some sort. But this won't be as big of a step as the last one, just as the Xbox360 wasn't as big a leap from the Playstation 1. This could (will) become the standard, but I expect it to be slow going for the masses. It could be similar to the CD to SACD deal, which didn't ever do much.

But for goobers like me who use a projector on a 100" screen, it should be nice.
Old 01-11-06, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by paulringodaman
I had my brother switch the stills while I stood about 7 feet away. The HD does look a TIDBIT better but it mostly looks just a little darker. I'm not really impressed. Try to do this and see what you think as well. Up close from the screen, the results are dramatic.
No wonder. At that distance you're way beyond the limits of visual acuity. Likewise, if you sit 30' away from a 50" plasma you'll be hard-pressed to tell VHS from DVD.
Old 01-11-06, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Grubert
No wonder. At that distance you're way beyond the limits of visual acuity. Likewise, if you sit 30' away from a 50" plasma you'll be hard-pressed to tell VHS from DVD.
Yea, that's probably true.

But sitting 7 feet (84") from a (assuming) 17" monitor would be more like
sitting 20 feet from a 50" plasma (aren't those measured diagonally, too)?

17"/84" = 50"/x; x ~= 247" ~= 20 feet.
Old 01-11-06, 08:08 AM
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20' is still pretty far.
Old 01-11-06, 08:16 AM
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...plus the images don't even fill a 17" monitor unless you're running at an awfully low resolution -- these are downsampled HD images too, so you're not getting the full effect there either.

Standing 20 feet from a 50" plasma would make it very difficult to discern an HD image from a DVD.
Old 01-11-06, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
...plus the images don't even fill a 17" monitor unless you're running at an awfully low resolution -- these are downsampled HD images too, so you're not getting the full effect there either.

Standing 20 feet from a 50" plasma would make it very difficult to discern an HD image from a DVD.
They more than fill up the entire screen if you click the image to bring up the full size one and them maximize the browser and turn off the menu bar, address bar, etc.. I did this at 1024x768 on my computer monitor.

I wonder how far most people sit from their TVs? What's the average size HD set most regular types buy? I would guess that 10-15 feet would be an average distance from view to set. Again, I'm talking about "average" people, not A/V geeks.

Personally, I love the difference in detail between the shots. I can't wait for prices to be at an acceptable level for me to start upgrading. I'm going to see some difference since I'm using an 8' wide screen. But I just won't know how much until I see it on my own equipment.
Old 01-11-06, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by awmurray
They more than fill up the entire screen if you click the image to bring up the full size one and them maximize the browser and turn off the menu bar, address bar, etc..
Geez. I never thought to click on the picture -- sorry. I thought the on-Mouse-Over was the beginning and end of it and didn't bother to read the text explaining that. Reading is fundamental!

I agree that most people probably sit far enough away from their televisions to make it difficult for them to fully appreciate the difference.

Do you not have any way of viewing HD material presently, out of curiosity?
Old 01-11-06, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
Do you not have any way of viewing HD material presently, out of curiosity?
No, I've been patiently waiting . I've been content with 480p output (from DCDi progressive scan player) waiting for the day that HD arrives.

Unfortunately, since my projector (Sanyo PLC-XP21N) was made in 2001, it doesn't have HDMI so that may pose a problem.

I guess I could hook a computer to it, but that doesn't count.

Any of the Pixar discs (Toy Story 1/2 come to mind), look absolutely mind-blowing in 480p (to me). It looks so, so, so much better than anything I've ever seen in a movie theater. Amazing really. So the bar is pretty high in my mind for HD. My hope for HD is that it vastly improves those other discs with not-so-good transfers-- you know the grainy ones-- the non-anamorphic ones. I guess some of that is caused by compression...

It will be hard to top Toy Story for me. If that looks better I'll be stunned.

And, of course, I've seen the huge Sony rear projection DLP HD sets in stores and the picture was incredible. But that was just ducks swimming around-- not exactly representative.
Old 01-11-06, 09:35 AM
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The differences are obvious on images with a lot of detail such as the map. Particularly in this instance as you can sit there and study the screenshot as long as you wish. Would it have as much impact, can you really pick out those details in a fast paced action movie? I have my doubts. I'll have to see an A/B comparison of the playing movies before I decide.

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