HD DVD and Blu-ray FAQ

[lizard]

Originally Posted by matome

There is no layer change delay on the Click dual-layer BD that I watched.

Well, they didn't have dual layer discs out back when I wrote that. But I am not surprised that the Samsung player buffers layer changes. It is an obvious feature for any high end SD or HD player I would think; I never understood why it wasn't standard on all DVD players.

Thanks for letting us know.

[lizard]

Originally Posted by dtcarson

Why is upconversion disabled via component? Is the threat of analog-recorded piracy from SDVD played over HDDVD component cables really *that* big a threat?

Now that you mention it, it doesn't make much sense. Why does it make any difference to have upscaled SD DVD analog output blocked but 540 lines is ok? Wouldn't DVD pirates be happy with 540 lines? All I can figure is that they were worried about the upscaled analog output being re-digitized and put on HD DVDs and sold as "High Definition" by pirates.

I just got my HDA1 back, they did a 'software restore', and I have the same problem with HDMi-DVI at 1080i. I just opened my one and only HDDVD to see if somehow it is different if a HDDVD is being played; it's not. So now my options are to either A. see if I can get my TV fixed; B. buy a new set of component cables and use the player only for HDDVD; C. copy my legimately owned dvds ANYWAY in order to upconvert over component [which is amazingly easy, if time-consuming], or D. return the damn thing and resent the industry for making it difficult to use products I legally purchased. I'm leaning toward D, honestly; this is getting to be too much of a hassle, it shouldn't be this much work to spend my money and use the product as it's meant. I just called Best Buy to make use of their service plan but their TV department is down (?) so I'll have to call back later.

Sorry you are having problems. Does seem like a TV problem, as you say. If you know anyone with an HDTV you could hook up your A1 and see that it works ok with HDMI out, to make sure it isn't a player problem.

[matome]

Originally Posted by lizard

Well, they didn't have dual layer discs out back when I wrote that. But I am not surprised that the Samsung player buffers layer changes. It is an obvious feature for any high end SD or HD player I would think; I never understood why it wasn't standard on all DVD players.

Thanks for letting us know.

Yeah, I've had many DVD players and the only one that had absolutely no layer change pause was the Proscan DIVX player that I bought from Circuit City during their fire sale on the units back in the day. Even my current Denon 2910 has a pause. I thought it would've been standard to get rid ofthis by now.

[bilbob]

If this format war is not resolved soon more people like myself will just choose to download online. Who want to spend $$ on a new format library unless they are assured to format will be around awhile. The buzz in the media lately is being won by UTUBE and ITUNES and will continue to untill this format war can be resolved.

[lizard]

Originally Posted by bilbob

If this format war is not resolved soon more people like myself will just choose to download online. Who want to spend $$ on a new format library unless they are assured to format will be around awhile.

Short answer: the many of us here who have already purchased HD DVD and BD players. Even if the format we chose doesn't win the format war we will be able to continue to use our player to watch HD and SD DVDs. (As it happens the HD DVD player is an excellent SD DVD upscaler and is quite inexpensive.) In the meantime we get to enjoy movies with outstanding picture and sound. This is a no-lose proposition for us. Shocking as it may seem to you, HD DVDs and BDs will not stop working on the day the format is supplanted by something else.

The buzz in the media lately is being won by UTUBE and ITUNES and will continue to untill this format war can be resolved.

You can keep your buzz. Crappy low rez downloads won't be competing with high definition any time soon, at least for those of us who care about picture and audio quality. While you're squinting at your I-Pod or computer monitor we will be watching movies (and high def TV) on big screens with surround sound.

[matome]

[dtcarson]

The guy ordered a DVI board, the tv showed 1080i on neither my HDA1 nor his tester.

Youtube and Google videos are great....for five minute joke videos. I don't see them as being real competitors to cable, online dvd rental, DVD purchasing, or free/pay On Demand.
I know there is a growing demographic who use a computer as their 'media center', and they may go the download route...but how many of them will *pay* for it, and how many rely on free stuff, legal or not?

And downloading content is even *more* dependent on making sure you can play it later--if it's pay content, most of it will time out after a certain period of time, or you have to hope the provider stays in business; if it's free content, you've got to make sure you have the right software, the right codecs, the disk space, etc. Internet distribution is incredible for speed and range of distribution, but a/v quality and compatibility is poor.

I would like the 'format war' to be resolved, simply because I want content that is currently scheduled for both formats and don't want to have to buy two players; but I want it to last long enough for the hardware and software providers to really create some kickass output due to the competition.
Itunes is great. I like it as a music library and podcast management tool. I have never, however, spent a cent on it, and don't plan to.

[dtcarson]

Okay, the guy came back today and installed a DVI board in my TV. He wrote on my cables so he could put them back but at least he put them back, apparently in the right places
Anyway, after installing the board, I had a picture...but it was all pink. I told the guy, um, should it be pink? So we spent fifteen minutes playing with JKP's DVE and Tint/Color settings....before I found 'colorspace settings' on the setup menu, and changed it from YPbPr to the other thing [RGB?]. *There* we go. Picture with the right colors. Tried Toy Story 2, the DVE disk, and Serenity and everything looked better [although not sure if it's noticeable enough to counter the WAF]. Anyway, now to get my Harmony working correctly, and take advantage of this Netflix free month.
And now I have to reread the manual, since I havent' read it in a month [since I haven't been able to use the player the way I wanted].

Question:

I'm going to order some analog audio cables and an optical audio cable from Monoprice.
Will I only see the benefit of analog cables with TrueHD [and vice versa], and for everything else using 'standard' DD/DTS, even HDDVD, I should just use optical audio so my receiver can do some processing incuding expanding the soundfield [I use 'DD EX' or 'DTS Neo 6' to get rear surrounds doing stuff]?

[chente]

Originally Posted by dtcarson

Question:

I'm going to order some analog audio cables and an optical audio cable from Monoprice.
Will I only see the benefit of analog cables with TrueHD [and vice versa], and for everything else using 'standard' DD/DTS, even HDDVD, I should just use optical audio so my receiver can do some processing incuding expanding the soundfield [I use 'DD EX' or 'DTS Neo 6' to get rear surrounds doing stuff]?

It's your choice. You can use the Analog to get the full benifit of the DD+ tracks as well as getting Dolby TruHD. Using the optical cable will downconvert the DD+ tracks to DTS allowing you to do the extra processing your are talking about. Even downconverted, it sounds much better than SD DVD tracks. I personally am using the analogs for everything but I am only using a 5.1 set-up. One downside is that with my current set up, I can't run a stereo track through Dolby Pro Logic.

I'm tempted to run both, but I'm out of inputs on my receiver so I'd have to use a splitter and frankly I'm too lazy to bother setting everything up right now when everything sounds so good with the analogs.

[dtcarson]

You answered another question before I even had it [it was;
DD+ is not the same as DD-EX, is it? My reciever doesn't say it does DD+, but it does do EX].
I think I'll hook them both up, and use the analog for HDDVD, since it seems most of them are at least DD+, so I'll have to rely on the player to decode that audio, and use the receiver's processing via optical for SDVD.
I know I'm repeating myself, and I apologize, I'm just trying to de-confuse myself with all the wires and formats and things, and try to get the best use out of this setup.

[chente]

Right. DD+ is not the same as EX. To my knowledge, no receivers can decode the DD+ tracks yet, so you need the player to decode it and send it to your receiver via analog. Your receiver will just be an amplifier at this point. Alternatively, you can sent the DD+ tracks out to the receiver downconverted to DTS via the optical cable and have your receiver work whatever processor magic it wants on it.

[dtcarson]

Ah. So I don't feel like my reciever is *that* far behind the curve yet .
I just hooked it up using the raggedy analog cables I found in my box o' wires, and played the opening credits for Serenity. I've got the volume turned to 30, which is about what I use for a SDVD, and I don't know if it's the placebo effect or what, but it does indeed sound [and look] quite nice.

[Josh Z]

Originally Posted by dtcarson

I just hooked it up using the raggedy analog cables I found in my box o' wires, and played the opening credits for Serenity. I've got the volume turned to 30, which is about what I use for a SDVD, and I don't know if it's the placebo effect or what, but it does indeed sound [and look] quite nice.

Keep in mind that the Serenity sound mix (on both DVD and HD DVD) is extremely "hot", with almost obscene amounts of deep, house-shaking bass. That movie is going to sound different than most others on either format.

Having your volume set to 30 (didn't say whether positive or negative) suggests to me that you haven't calibrated your speakers for proper 75 db levels using a sound level meter. Once you do that, a volume of 0 becomes "reference level", which should just on the verge of deafening rock concert levels. I watch most movies at around -8 to -10.

[lizard]

Originally Posted by dtcarson

Ah. So I don't feel like my reciever is *that* far behind the curve yet .
I just hooked it up using the raggedy analog cables I found in my box o' wires, and played the opening credits for Serenity. I've got the volume turned to 30, which is about what I use for a SDVD, and I don't know if it's the placebo effect or what, but it does indeed sound [and look] quite nice.

If you are using analog out from the A1 don't forget that you can tune your system using the setup menu on the player ("setup" is one of the hidden buttons on the remote). You can set distance for each of the six speakers in a 5.1 system, and set volume levels for each speaker, if you have a sound meter. That way you don't have to adjust your receiver settings, in case your receiver doesn't have different settings for each input. (I found that the A1 gave me better adjustment options than my receiver because the latter adjusts speakers in pairs and my room is oddly shaped.)

[dtcarson]

Josh Z: No I haven't done any audio calibration, apart from the 'how's this sound' test.
My receiver starts at 0 and goes up to, I don't know, 60-65 or so is as high as I've had it [during the day testing a Motley Crue dvd]. I don't really know what it signifies. When I turn it louder the number goes up.

Lizard--I did see the speaker setup option in the setup menu [yes, that button is well hidden] but haven't bothered setting it up yet. My receiver also sets up in pairs, so I will definitely use the A1's setup for that. My room is not optimal for home theater--the tv in a corner and the main viewing angle is catecorner from it.

thanks for the advice. What does a total neophyte need to know about a sound meter? [top question: how much are they].

[Josh Z]

Originally Posted by dtcarson

Josh Z: No I haven't done any audio calibration, apart from the 'how's this sound' test.
My receiver starts at 0 and goes up to, I don't know, 60-65 or so is as high as I've had it [during the day testing a Motley Crue dvd]. I don't really know what it signifies. When I turn it louder the number goes up.

I recommend you go to Radio Shack and buy a sound level meter. Shouldn't be more than $30-40. Go for the analog type, not the digital, if you have a choice. Then use a calibration DVD and follow the instructions.

[lizard]

^

Yes, for any surround system a sound meter — sometimes called an SPL meter ("Sound Pressure Level", I think) — is a necessary tool. As is a calibration disc like Video Essentials or Avia. A new Digital Video Essentials HD DVD is being released in a few weeks. $18.99 at bestprices.com.

My Radio Shack SPL meter was well worth the $30 or so I paid for it some years ago. I just haven't the ability to balance a system by ear.

[BravesMG]

I need some help and my head is spinning here with all of the different variations of TruHD, DD+, DTS HD, etc. I apologize if this has been answered in this thread, but I can barely spell my name after reading through about 7 or 8 pages.

I'm going to be purchasing a new receiver here soon. Can the HD-DVD player pass TruHD to the receiver through HDMI or does it have to be analogs?

[Suprmallet]

The G1 players will pass a converted signal over HDMI. The only way to get an unconverted signal is with analog. For the G2 players, the A2 will only pass the converted signal over HDMI (no analogs on the unit), whereas the XA2 gives you the analog options, the converted HDMI option, or even an undecoded option for down the line when they start making receivers that can decode the new audio codecs and have HDMI 1.3.

And the 360 add on does no advanced audio, period.

[Josh Z]

Originally Posted by bravesmg

I need some help and my head is spinning here with all of the different variations of TruHD, DD+, DTS HD, etc. I apologize if this has been answered in this thread, but I can barely spell my name after reading through about 7 or 8 pages.

I'm going to be purchasing a new receiver here soon. Can the HD-DVD player pass TruHD to the receiver through HDMI or does it have to be analogs?

FYI, all of this is spelled out in the site's review of the HD-A1 player:

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=21310

[BravesMG]

Good deal, I should have remembered about the review, best one out there. Now I'm off to figure out which receiver to get.

[dtcarson]

Question, not solely limited to HD/BD I guess.
How the heck does upconversion work? I put in a disk from Xena S1, which is known for being of poor video quality; while it couldn't do anything about the graininess/snow in the picture, the HDA1 did indeed appear to output a better, crisper, brighter picture. How? With most digital things, you can't make it bigger than it's 'supposed' to be without losing quality [like zooming in on a digital picture]. Is this the placebo effect, or how does it work?

[lizard]

Originally Posted by dtcarson

Question, not solely limited to HD/BD I guess.
How the heck does upconversion work? I put in a disk from Xena S1, which is known for being of poor video quality; while it couldn't do anything about the graininess/snow in the picture, the HDA1 did indeed appear to output a better, crisper, brighter picture. How? With most digital things, you can't make it bigger than it's 'supposed' to be without losing quality [like zooming in on a digital picture]. Is this the placebo effect, or how does it work?

"Line Doubling" or upconversion (upscaling) is definitely not a placebo effect. The machine interpolates lines by comparing them to the adjacent lines of information and splitting the difference. How good a job it does depends a lot on the software algorithm and the complexity of the source material (simple fare like animation tends to upscale better than live action movies because interpolating scan lines in regions of solid color is easy and looks "perfect"). Just going from 480 lines in SD TV to 1080 lines on an HDTV makes for a smoother picture.

But I am surprised that a poor DVD would look much better upscaled since the noise ought to be upscaled too.

[I tried to find a website that gave examples of how upscaling works but couldn't come up with anything. Perhaps someone else knows of one. It would be simple to explain with pictures.]

[dtcarson]

It doesn't look *much* better, and the noise/snow is still there [I may be using the wrong term], but what looked good before, does look better.
Yeah, I can't find any images that would demonstrate upconvert either. I recall the 'interlaced' versus 'progressive' images I found a long time back, and they did help make it easily understandable.

[Drexl]

Upconversion is simply scaling the image to a higher resolution. It's like opening a picture in Photoshop or some other graphic program and resizing it to a higher resolution. It's not just a matter of repeating pixels with the same colors, but extrapolating them for a smoother appearance. This page has some pictures: http://softwareforhomes.com/upscaling-DVD-player.htm

Upscaling in DVD players or video scalers is popular because the scaling built in to many TVs does not do that good of a job.