HD DVD and Blu-ray FAQ - Page 5

lizard · 09-08-06, 03:02 PM

^ I think "suckers" is a little harsh. Some (many?) people will be buying their first HT receiver or HDTV over the next few years. For those folks, picking ones that can accept HDMI 1.3 seems like a good choice. It's hardly a scam, just the latest standard.

But, like you, analog out to my conventional HT receiver (Outlaw 1050) works great. It helps that I am only running a 5.1 speaker system. For those that have 6.1 or 7.1 setups, an upgrade to an HDMI receiver might be necessary if they don't already have an HDMI 1.1 capable receiver.

Suprmallet · 09-08-06, 03:39 PM

They're only suckers if they rebuy their whole setup for 1.3. Obviously if they're just getting into HT it's not that big of a deal.

lizard · 09-09-06, 02:09 PM

^I agree, for the reasons you gave earlier.

PornoStar · 09-21-06, 03:10 AM

I figured I would give the analog 5.1 out on the A1 a try as everyone is saying there is a huge difference between digital and analog consideing digital cannot give you the TrueHD and DD+ which I wasnt even aware of until I read this thread awile back. Anyways I went and invested some cash in some really nice Monster cables even tho everyone said the quality in analog cables wasnt a big deal. I just have a thing about getting high quality cables. It makes me feel like I am at least doing every thing in my power to make the most out of what I have spent so much money on already.

Anyways WOW WOW WOW is all I can say. What an unbelievable improvement. First of all my girlfriend always had a problem hearing the dialogue with my old setup and I always had to boost my center channel up to anywhere from +8 to +10 depending on the movie. I dont have to adjust the center channel at all with the new 5.1 analog setup, it stays right where the system setup put it at which was at +1. The clarity in the dialogue was really striking. Besides that everything just seems to have a much richer feel to it now especially the TRUEHD tracks. Training Day was amazing with TrueHD. I just didnt realize what I was missing out on. There were only 2 things that I had to adjust by switching to the analog. first I had to set my subwoofer to +5 - +6 from its original setting of +2 and I had to raise the overall volume. Going through the 5.1 analog was quiter than going digital. Our average volume setting was around 20-25 and now through the analog its around 30-35.

Anyone who is still going digital, stop what your doing and switch to the analog. This is coming from someone who didnt always care about small differences in audio quality and was just happy with average sound. Not anymore. Once you hear the quality of DD+ and TrueHD, its hard to imagine going back.

A funny little story, I went to three different stores trying to find a high quality set of 5.1 analog cords and all of the sales people at cuircut City, Best Buy and Comp USA were completly oblivious to the entire DD+, TreuHD, analog cords thing. They were all blown away when I was telling them that I was switching from digital to analog on purpose to take advantage of the better sound options. They just couldnt beleive that analog was a better option than the digital with the HD DVD's. Just goes to show you how uneducated alot of these people are in the new sound options available and the ways you are able toget them. Every one of them tried arguing that Digital was better until I explained that you cant get DD+ and TrueHD through the digital cords. My Girlfriend was with me and I actually think she began to think I was crazy and that I didnt know what I was talking about until she heard the difference.

Anyways just goes to show ya that the sales people at these sites are not always the best people to talk to and your best option is to come on sites like this and educate yourself. If I had listened to them I would still be listening to DD through my digial cable.

PS...

dkny75 · 09-21-06, 12:35 PM

Welcome to the wonderful world of TrueHD!!!

Spiky · 09-21-06, 05:20 PM

And just wait til it isn't giving you CD-level audio. You think it's good now, watch for 96/24 on HDDVDs in the future.

Dude, next time you want some high-quality cables, trust us on that, too. You didn't have to spend what you did. Probably could've gotten higher quality for less $$$.

Vipper II · 09-21-06, 07:51 PM

You can get DD+ and TrueHD over digital, but not via coax or optical; you can get it through HDMI, but your receiver needs to have that kind of connection.

PornoStar · 09-21-06, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vipper II

You can get DD+ and TrueHD over digital, but not via coax or optical; you can get it through HDMI, but your receiver needs to have that kind of connection.

Of course you can get it through HDMI. HDMI is an all in one connection. I was refering to digital coax and optical as that is what this entire thread was talking about. If I had HDMI on my reciever why would I even be using a coax or optical? This entire discussion was talking about people that didnt have an HDMI reciever and didnt want to spend a grand upgrading to one to get the same thing you can get by going the 5.1 analog route.

PS...

PornoStar · 09-21-06, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiky

And just wait til it isn't giving you CD-level audio. You think it's good now, watch for 96/24 on HDDVDs in the future.

Dude, next time you want some high-quality cables, trust us on that, too. You didn't have to spend what you did. Probably could've gotten higher quality for less $$$.

Its cool, I am totally sold on Monster Cables. Have been using them for as long as I can remeber and have never had a problem. They even replaced a set of cords I purchased a few years back that started having rubber peel away from the ends of the cords without even asking to see the cords. They just sent me a set of cords that were higher quality than the ones I Was having a problem with. They may be a little expensive but they really are a great company with really friendly customer service people. To me that is what you should look for in any company and paying a little extra is sometimes worth it. I however am totally aware that there are cords out there that are probably just as impressive and much cheaper. I just cant see giving my business to anyone else out there when they have been so good to me as a customer and when I have been nothing but impressed with the quality of thier cords.

Thanks for the offer tho.

PS...

Josh Z · 09-22-06, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoStar

They may be a little expensive but they really are a great company with really friendly customer service people.

Monster Cables have about a 6,000% markup over their manufacturing cost, but I'm sure you knew that already. As a company, they also have a reputation for their aggressive trademark enforcement, to the point where they sue anyone who would dare use the word "monster" in any context. They sued the Boston Red Sox for calling the wall at Fenway Stadium "The Green Monster", a name that was in existence long before Monster Cable as a company.

lizard · 09-24-06, 06:27 PM

Anyone else who is looking for analog audio cables can get these from monoprice.com for $2.38 a pair (3 pairs needed for 5.1, of course), plus shipping:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...ormat=2&style=

They are quite good quality. Longer lengths are available at similar prices.

Like Spiky and Josh Z said, paying big bucks for cables isn't necessary.

dtcarson · 09-24-06, 06:40 PM

I've got mine hooked up via the analog into my receivers MultiChannel, and admittedly the cables are cheapies [I just wanted to 'beta test' with whatever I had around the house.]
I tried a SDVD that I had just watched, previous view was using DDEX via optical cable on my old DVD player. Plenty of surround, especially during the open theme and fight scenes [it was an episode of Xena], though dialog was a bit low through the center speaker.
Trying the same thing through the analog cables, left me unimpressed. I knew I was going to lose the 'fake' surround from the two rear surrounds, and that I would have to turn it up louder, but the surround from the multichan wasn't that enveloping. Would cheap cables make that much of a difference, am I doing something wrong, or do I just have a bad player [see: HDMI/DVI problem]. Or am I being hypercritical?

lizard · 09-25-06, 01:48 PM

^ If you are playing regular DVD, the sound you get via analog or optical/coax is going to be regular DD or DTS. Big difference between that and the DD Plus or Dolby TruHD tracks found on HD DVD (via analog or HDMI; on optical/coax they are downrezzed to DTS).

So, no, it likely hasn't anything to do with cheapie cables. Yes, from the other thread, it does appear you have a player defect WRT the lack of 1080i DVI signal.

Hope that makes sense.

dtcarson · 09-25-06, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizard

^ If you are playing regular DVD, the sound you get via analog or optical/coax is going to be regular DD or DTS. Big difference between that and the DD Plus or Dolby TruHD tracks found on HD DVD (via analog or HDMI; on optical/coax they are downrezzed to DTS).

Ok...In that case for 'regular' audio, I'll either use my current DVD player or the optical audio, so my reciever can 'fake' some surround sound, especially for 2-channel stuff

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizard

So, no, it likely hasn't anything to do with cheapie cables.

Good. I know I've read that analog audio is easy to transmit, and that for the most part a cable's a cable, but I wondered if there were a bottom limit to that--I have no idea where these cables came from, they are part of the 'box of wires' that I've collected over the years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizard

Yes, from the other thread, it does appear you have a player defect WRT the lack of 1080i DVI signal.

Hope that makes sense.

yep. I hope it's just bad luck wrt: the player. Shipped it off today to the Depot.

Tony Dvdfan · 09-29-06, 05:44 PM

I have a question regarding hooking up the Toshiba HD-DVD. I tried connecting the HDMI to the tv (Samsung 5687), screen flickers green for a sec or two, then tv displays "weak or no signal."
I did update the firmware. Runs fine on Components but would prefer to use the HDMI. Audio is hooked up using the 5.1 analogs. Any help is appreciated.

Josh Z · 09-30-06, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Dvdfan

I have a question regarding hooking up the Toshiba HD-DVD. I tried connecting the HDMI to the tv (Samsung 5687), screen flickers green for a sec or two, then tv displays "weak or no signal."

Sounds like either you've got a bad HDMI cable or your cable length is too long (HDMI is unreliable over 15 feet).

Tony Dvdfan · 09-30-06, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Z

Sounds like either you've got a bad HDMI cable or your cable length is too long (HDMI is unreliable over 15 feet).

Thanks for the tip Josh. I tried a second one i had, that one flashed picture for a sec then nothing again. The length i have is tops 10 ft....could i just have unbelievable luck with bad cables or is there anything else it might be?

brianluvdvd · 10-02-06, 02:11 PM

Dumb question...this may have been covered previously but I don't want to go thru 5 pages...Do Blue-Ray & HD-DVDs have layer changes?

digitalfreaknyc · 10-02-06, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianluvdvd

Dumb question...this may have been covered previously but I don't want to go thru 5 pages...Do Blue-Ray & HD-DVDs have layer changes?

Any disc that has more than one layer will. We haven't seen a BD disc that has more than one yet.

lizard · 10-02-06, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Dvdfan

Thanks for the tip Josh. I tried a second one i had, that one flashed picture for a sec then nothing again. The length i have is tops 10 ft....could i just have unbelievable luck with bad cables or is there anything else it might be?

Perhaps you have a bad plug socket on one machine or the other.

This may come across as a dumb suggestion, but have you made sure you have the A1 set to HDMI output? To do this, press the V.OUTPUT button on the remote until the HDMI display window light is on. Default on my player was component out so I got no picture when hooking up HDMI.

Also, "Resolution" should be set to 1080i, unless you have firmware 2.0, even if you have a 720p or 768p display. But that wouldn't be the source of the problem you describe.

One final thing, the TV should be on and the HDMI input selected when the DVD playback is begun. If not, the player in HDMI mode will not get the proper handshake signal and will stop playback automatically.

lizard · 10-02-06, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianluvdvd

Dumb question...this may have been covered previously but I don't want to go thru 5 pages...Do Blue-Ray & HD-DVDs have layer changes?

Thought I'd add to what DFNYC said, to mention that the Tosh A1 HD DVD player buffers layer changes so that they aren't noticed. I would guess that the Samsung BD player will also, but I haven't played with one (even if BD doesn't have two layer discs yet, regular DVDs do, of course).

(Your question reminded me that I haven't noticed any layer changes on DVDs or HD DVDs since I started using the A1.)

dtcarson · 10-12-06, 11:40 AM

Why is upconversion disabled via component? Is the threat of analog-recorded piracy from SDVD played over HDDVD component cables really *that* big a threat? I just got my HDA1 back, they did a 'software restore', and I have the same problem with HDMi-DVI at 1080i. I just opened my one and only HDDVD to see if somehow it is different if a HDDVD is being played; it's not. So now my options are to either A. see if I can get my TV fixed; B. buy a new set of component cables and use the player only for HDDVD; C. copy my legimately owned dvds ANYWAY in order to upconvert over component [which is amazingly easy, if time-consuming], or D. return the damn thing and resent the industry for making it difficult to use products I legally purchased. I'm leaning toward D, honestly; this is getting to be too much of a hassle, it shouldn't be this much work to spend my money and use the product as it's meant. I just called Best Buy to make use of their service plan but their TV department is down (?) so I'll have to call back later.

Tony Dvdfan · 10-12-06, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizard

Perhaps you have a bad plug socket on one machine or the other.

This may come across as a dumb suggestion, but have you made sure you have the A1 set to HDMI output? To do this, press the V.OUTPUT button on the remote until the HDMI display window light is on. Default on my player was component out so I got no picture when hooking up HDMI.

Also, "Resolution" should be set to 1080i, unless you have firmware 2.0, even if you have a 720p or 768p display. But that wouldn't be the source of the problem you describe.

One final thing, the TV should be on and the HDMI input selected when the DVD playback is begun. If not, the player in HDMI mode will not get the proper handshake signal and will stop playback automatically.

Thank you Lizard....the "dumb suggestion" is exactly what wasnt working for me. I was trying to change the output while on the setup screen, not during the playback.

Now i can see how the upconverting does on my regular dvds. Thanks again for the help!

matome · 10-12-06, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizard

Thought I'd add to what DFNYC said, to mention that the Tosh A1 HD DVD player buffers layer changes so that they aren't noticed. I would guess that the Samsung BD player will also, but I haven't played with one (even if BD doesn't have two layer discs yet, regular DVDs do, of course).

There is no layer change delay on the Click dual-layer BD that I watched.

lizard · 10-12-06, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Dvdfan

Thank you Lizard....the "dumb suggestion" is exactly what wasnt working for me. I was trying to change the output while on the setup screen, not during the playback.

Now i can see how the upconverting does on my regular dvds. Thanks again for the help!

You're welcome. Same thing happened to me so after the "Oh shit!" moment it was back to the manual to troubleshoot.

09-08-06, 03:39 PM	#102
Suprmallet Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: USS Enterprise Posts: 21,741	They're only suckers if they rebuy their whole setup for 1.3. Obviously if they're just getting into HT it's not that big of a deal. __________________ Living Dead: So what you're saying is... no one died in the middle of your store when you told them they couldn't have a $10 plasma TV? I find that a little hard to swallow.

09-21-06, 03:10 AM	#104
PornoStar Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Detroit Posts: 516	I figured I would give the analog 5.1 out on the A1 a try as everyone is saying there is a huge difference between digital and analog consideing digital cannot give you the TrueHD and DD+ which I wasnt even aware of until I read this thread awile back. Anyways I went and invested some cash in some really nice Monster cables even tho everyone said the quality in analog cables wasnt a big deal. I just have a thing about getting high quality cables. It makes me feel like I am at least doing every thing in my power to make the most out of what I have spent so much money on already. Anyways WOW WOW WOW is all I can say. What an unbelievable improvement. First of all my girlfriend always had a problem hearing the dialogue with my old setup and I always had to boost my center channel up to anywhere from +8 to +10 depending on the movie. I dont have to adjust the center channel at all with the new 5.1 analog setup, it stays right where the system setup put it at which was at +1. The clarity in the dialogue was really striking. Besides that everything just seems to have a much richer feel to it now especially the TRUEHD tracks. Training Day was amazing with TrueHD. I just didnt realize what I was missing out on. There were only 2 things that I had to adjust by switching to the analog. first I had to set my subwoofer to +5 - +6 from its original setting of +2 and I had to raise the overall volume. Going through the 5.1 analog was quiter than going digital. Our average volume setting was around 20-25 and now through the analog its around 30-35. Anyone who is still going digital, stop what your doing and switch to the analog. This is coming from someone who didnt always care about small differences in audio quality and was just happy with average sound. Not anymore. Once you hear the quality of DD+ and TrueHD, its hard to imagine going back. A funny little story, I went to three different stores trying to find a high quality set of 5.1 analog cords and all of the sales people at cuircut City, Best Buy and Comp USA were completly oblivious to the entire DD+, TreuHD, analog cords thing. They were all blown away when I was telling them that I was switching from digital to analog on purpose to take advantage of the better sound options. They just couldnt beleive that analog was a better option than the digital with the HD DVD's. Just goes to show you how uneducated alot of these people are in the new sound options available and the ways you are able toget them. Every one of them tried arguing that Digital was better until I explained that you cant get DD+ and TrueHD through the digital cords. My Girlfriend was with me and I actually think she began to think I was crazy and that I didnt know what I was talking about until she heard the difference. Anyways just goes to show ya that the sales people at these sites are not always the best people to talk to and your best option is to come on sites like this and educate yourself. If I had listened to them I would still be listening to DD through my digial cable. PS... __________________ "My experiences, tho I would wish them on nobody else, have helped make me what I am and what I still hope to be"

09-21-06, 12:35 PM	#105
dkny75 Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 712	Welcome to the wonderful world of TrueHD!!! __________________ DVD Spot DVD Aficionado DVD Profiler Wii number: 8635 5577 9502 4722

09-21-06, 05:20 PM	#106
Spiky DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 5,480	And just wait til it isn't giving you CD-level audio. You think it's good now, watch for 96/24 on HDDVDs in the future. Dude, next time you want some high-quality cables, trust us on that, too. You didn't have to spend what you did. Probably could've gotten higher quality for less $$$. __________________ Ignorance vs Bliss --Wizdar

09-24-06, 06:40 PM	#112
dtcarson DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Triangle, NC, USA Posts: 7,309	I've got mine hooked up via the analog into my receivers MultiChannel, and admittedly the cables are cheapies [I just wanted to 'beta test' with whatever I had around the house.] I tried a SDVD that I had just watched, previous view was using DDEX via optical cable on my old DVD player. Plenty of surround, especially during the open theme and fight scenes [it was an episode of Xena], though dialog was a bit low through the center speaker. Trying the same thing through the analog cables, left me unimpressed. I knew I was going to lose the 'fake' surround from the two rear surrounds, and that I would have to turn it up louder, but the surround from the multichan wasn't that enveloping. Would cheap cables make that much of a difference, am I doing something wrong, or do I just have a bad player [see: HDMI/DVI problem]. Or am I being hypercritical? __________________ Books I've read this year Books I've read last year Books I've read 2007 My dvds 360 Gamertag: dtcarson I don't blog, but my 360 does.

09-08-06, 03:02 PM	#101
lizard DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: May 2000 Location: the Western Slope, Colorado Posts: 5,840	^ I think "suckers" is a little harsh. Some (many?) people will be buying their first HT receiver or HDTV over the next few years. For those folks, picking ones that can accept HDMI 1.3 seems like a good choice. It's hardly a scam, just the latest standard. But, like you, analog out to my conventional HT receiver (Outlaw 1050) works great. It helps that I am only running a 5.1 speaker system. For those that have 6.1 or 7.1 setups, an upgrade to an HDMI receiver might be necessary if they don't already have an HDMI 1.1 capable receiver.

09-09-06, 02:09 PM	#103
lizard DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: May 2000 Location: the Western Slope, Colorado Posts: 5,840	^I agree, for the reasons you gave earlier.

09-21-06, 07:51 PM	#107
Vipper II DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Abingdon, MD Posts: 1,951	You can get DD+ and TrueHD over digital, but not via coax or optical; you can get it through HDMI, but your receiver needs to have that kind of connection.

09-24-06, 06:27 PM	#111
lizard DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: May 2000 Location: the Western Slope, Colorado Posts: 5,840	Anyone else who is looking for analog audio cables can get these from monoprice.com for $2.38 a pair (3 pairs needed for 5.1, of course), plus shipping: http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...ormat=2&style= They are quite good quality. Longer lengths are available at similar prices. Like Spiky and Josh Z said, paying big bucks for cables isn't necessary.

09-25-06, 01:48 PM	#113
lizard DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: May 2000 Location: the Western Slope, Colorado Posts: 5,840	^ If you are playing regular DVD, the sound you get via analog or optical/coax is going to be regular DD or DTS. Big difference between that and the DD Plus or Dolby TruHD tracks found on HD DVD (via analog or HDMI; on optical/coax they are downrezzed to DTS). So, no, it likely hasn't anything to do with cheapie cables. Yes, from the other thread, it does appear you have a player defect WRT the lack of 1080i DVI signal. Hope that makes sense. Last edited by lizard; 09-25-06 at 01:50 PM.

09-29-06, 05:44 PM	#115
Tony Dvdfan DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 1,657	I have a question regarding hooking up the Toshiba HD-DVD. I tried connecting the HDMI to the tv (Samsung 5687), screen flickers green for a sec or two, then tv displays "weak or no signal." I did update the firmware. Runs fine on Components but would prefer to use the HDMI. Audio is hooked up using the 5.1 analogs. Any help is appreciated.

10-02-06, 02:11 PM	#118
brianluvdvd DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 6,879	Dumb question...this may have been covered previously but I don't want to go thru 5 pages...Do Blue-Ray & HD-DVDs have layer changes? __________________ Xbox Live Gamertag: FatalSpiderbite PSN Gamertag: Arachnidsting Wii Code: 3901 7492 2924 8006 I would like to change my username but the Powers That Be at DVDTalk won't let me.

10-12-06, 11:40 AM	#122
dtcarson DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Triangle, NC, USA Posts: 7,309	Why is upconversion disabled via component? Is the threat of analog-recorded piracy from SDVD played over HDDVD component cables really that big a threat? I just got my HDA1 back, they did a 'software restore', and I have the same problem with HDMi-DVI at 1080i. I just opened my one and only HDDVD to see if somehow it is different if a HDDVD is being played; it's not. So now my options are to either A. see if I can get my TV fixed; B. buy a new set of component cables and use the player only for HDDVD; C. copy my legimately owned dvds ANYWAY in order to upconvert over component [which is amazingly easy, if time-consuming], or D. return the damn thing and resent the industry for making it difficult to use products I legally purchased. I'm leaning toward D, honestly; this is getting to be too much of a hassle, it shouldn't be this much work to spend my money and use the product as it's meant. I just called Best Buy to make use of their service plan but their TV department is down (?) so I'll have to call back later. __________________ Books I've read this year Books I've read last year Books I've read 2007 My dvds 360 Gamertag: dtcarson I don't blog, but my 360 does.