BobO'Link

I'd call Clark in that series "Small Town" - sort of a down to earth type. I enjoyed it during the original run but sort of gave up on it sometime during the 3rd season. I can't recall exactly why but some of it stemmed from DC having Lois & Clark marry in the comic and putting it in the series as a cross-promotion type thing. I recall not caring for the fact that Lois figured out *who* Clark was when not Clark but that's from a very long relationship reading Superman comics. I have the series on DVD and have watched the first 2 seasons - although a couple of years back. I've never "made time" for the rest simply because my memories are that it was kind of "meh"... I really need to get those last two seasons out and just finish watching. After all, I didn't see all of those during the first run.

Hmmm... I don't see that. To me they look *very* different...

Dimension X

I didn't have any problem with the flying whatsis. Comic book Krypton always had exotic creatures (along with at least one earth-like dog and a monkey). It made the planet look more alien, I suppose. Not something I would've done, but not something I cared about either.
When I first started reading comics, DC was regularly publishing 100 Page Super Spectaculars, and soon after, those $1 tabloid size Treasury Editions, so it wasn't unusual for me to read, say a Batman "Dark Knight Detective" story where he fought alone, Bruce Wayne lived in the penthouse of the Wayne Foundation building, and Robin was away at college, then turn the page and read a Batman & Robin story where they're fighting aliens, or maybe time traveling, then a few pages later, they're chasing villains across the keys of a giant typewriter. Thanks to the then yearly JLA-JSA team ups (plus reprints of earlier team ups), and Flash's cosmic treadmill, I knew that each of these Batman stories was just as "legitimate" as the next because they occurred on Earth 1 or Earth 2 (and there were lots more where those came from).

Added to that, earlier in the week, I'd probably seen a few reruns of the Adam West show and a few filmation cartoons, and if it was Saturday, I'd watch Batman and Robin, along with the Super Friends (and Wendy and Marvin), fighting bad guys, and if I was really lucky, I might see Batman and Robin team up with Scooby Doo and the gang.

The little differences between the shows and the comics never bothered me. To me, those TV versions of Batman (or Super Friends, the Filmation cartoons, and The Adventures of Superman, for Superman) were just "different earths" also. e.g. The Filmation cartoons took place on an earth where Robin for some reason wasn't a member of the Teen Titans. Gee, that's different from the comics. Oh well.
I don't think he said that. The way I remember it,
This didn't bother me anywhere near as much as Lois
This one did tick me off, it was totally out of character,

I'd suggest you stay away from Smallville or Arrow.

For those of you scoring at home: I like Ultimate Spider-Man (the cartoon). They're not all winners, but I like the mix of action and humor, and having Spidey team up with teenaged versions of a bunch of D-List Marvel heroes makes it feel like an updated, better Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends.

I do watch the other two current Marvel/Disney cartoons, Avengers Assemble and Hulk and the Agents of S.M.A.S.H., but they pile up on the DVR for weeks at a time before I feel like watching them.
I watched that one when it originally aired, and, no surprise, I liked it.

It's been a long time since I watched the show, or read those issues of the comics, but didn't Clark tell Lois, in both, that he was Superman?

And, really, what's wrong with her knowing (after 75 years)? How many times do you want to read the same story where Lois breaks a pair of scissors on Clark's hair trying to prove he's Superman. Then Clark tells her it was because his new hair gel made his hair indestructible. Then Clark has Bruce Wayne come over to the Daily Planet, dressed as Superman, to try to cut Clark's hair again to prove his story. Rinse and repeat.

shadokitty

I have to say I am glad I decided to give Clone Wars another chance. I'm still in season 1, but I am seeing the episodes starting to get better, starting with yesterdays arc about R2 being captured and sold to General Grievous.

BobO'Link

Same here. I've not read that story since it was first published and it's been over 2 years since I watched the season where Lois found out. I don't recall if she was about to find out and Clark just told her or she *did* find out and Clark admits she's right.
It's that chemistry thing. Like in Moonlighting where it was a "will they?" thing for several seasons and when they finally *did* it almost derailed the show because everything changed. And that's just one example but it seems to be rather the norm. Of course the other side is it *does* change everything and now Clark/Supes has to watch out for her more than ever just in case someone else even *thinks* she knows the secret. So you get new story lines/ideas but the "magic" can be gone.

ntnon

Good. I thought it did, but it's been a long time since I saw it... late at night after visiting elderly relatives... I'm glad any anticipation maybe made it better-by-comparison..!


There are a handful of moments - although that's probably the pinnacle! - that are a little on the unbelievable side...! But even those could (broadly) happen.

ntnon

I have dim memories of some good episodes, some funny episodes and some really rather dire ones in the last couple of seasons. One extended plot that... well, was memorable for the wrong reasons. Ironically, it featured clones that ties it thematically with reviled comics storylines from Spider-man and Star Wars (as well as the not-that-widely-liked post-Death comics arcs "Reign of the Supermen"). Why did it have to be clones...?

ntnon

I didn't mind per se, but it was one more wrinkle, another piece of (presumably) heavy-handed MESSAGE rather than plot. Krypton is clinical, is scientific, is removed from nature - that's part of why the planet died. There are areas and zoos in Silver Age Krypton, but it's jarring to see the griffinthing: it's akin to someone riding a horse along a main road... it seems more of a "look at him, he's not like the others/he's at one with nature, etc." move rather than a "Krypton is alien" move. And neither point (odd; alien) needs reinforcing - they are known and obvious.

I can forgive a lot more if this was Earth 1, but whichever earth it is, a) it's about to be the cornerstone of a (new) Film DCU, and b) it should be the 'main' Superman, not a variant for the presumably-main focus. And wherever he's from, he and his characters should be 'true to themselves'.

That's not any better! A frustrated "...no, of course not. It's just..." would convey that point of view and not imply that privacy and one life is worth the death of others. Which that sequence did. Compare with 1978, where JK says "you can't show off" and "I believe you're here for a reason, and that reason isn't football." THAT'S the message: don't get found out, it could be a problem, but you are here and powered to help.

[QUOTE=Dimension X;12105755]
Reeve was never Superboy. Cain was never Superboy. Neither of them would have hesitated to reveal themself if it saved a life...

I assume the revisit was the tornado..? If JK being cavalier about CK potentially deliberately letting a bus full of children drown to protect his identity (because lone survivors would escape scrutiny...) was the worst anti-character moment, the tornado was a close second and by far the most stupid.

Then, you have a life-threatening tornado.

Again, I don't mind much - it's the aggregation of things - but the problems are many: no love triangle, no opportunity to fall in love with JUST-Clark, and no is he or isn't he. It makes sense that an investigative reporter would investigate (and it makes sense that his youthful exploits would not be well-covered up), but the ease and speed mean that ANYONE can do it. In either World's Finest or Byrne's Generations (or both), Clark's powers reveal Batman to be Bruce, so Bruce - the world's greatest detective - tracks down CK's secret identity. Good story. But if ANY newspaper reporter (even THE Lois Lane) can find it out, why bother with one at all? Lex would know instantly, and would half his villains and most newspapers...

She finds out in comics and TV almost-only in two scenarios (bar Elseworld) a) when she's fallen in love with JUST-Clark and put Superman aside for him, so he feels comfortable telling her and/or when he tells her. That might possibly denigrate her journalistic skill (or be anti-women?), but for plot reasons it's much better (I think).

There's a scene in TNAoS (L&C) which my memory - which may be wrong, modified or confused! - remembers thusly: future-villain says "the future laughs at Lois for being too dumb to not see that Superman was Clark! Call yourself a reporter..." and the time travelling HG Wells corrects him "the future considers you part of the greatest love story, that you didn't think your idol could have a more mundane form. That you, along with the rest of the world never even considered (as some comics suggest) that he even HAD a secret identity! He's so busy..."

Something like that, anyway. All lost if she asks three people about a mysterious stranger and finds his mother.

He may kill all three in Superman II, too... I remember it being unclear there.

Part of the problem was the wishy-washiness of it, too. It was an ACCIDENT! A calculated decision would have presented a separate series of criticisms, but to imply that he could forget himself and... well. I disagree with the action and the presentation. I like the philosophical debates in various Batman stories where people point out that killing the Joker would cost but one life and save hundreds.. but that's Batman. Who ALSO doesn't kill people.

Ha!

I have so far successfully avoided Smallville because I do suspect I would take issue with much of it... but on the specific "who knows" and regular parade of people who find out and then die/forget/disappear/turn good, I find it much more palatable in a TV show, because well-handled it can be a good plot among the 20+ a year. Also, I understand that a TV show has a bigger recurring cast (often) and needs audience-substitute confidants.

With Arrow, and comics Oliver Queen specifically, a peculiarly goateed individual known to have learned survival skills on a desert island and a peculiarly goateed superhero who uses a bow... I'm surprised he ever kept his identity secret from anyone!

ntnon

That's my thinking, too...

There's a lot of mileage in the original awkward triangle: Lois loves Superman but doesn't care much for Clark, Kal loves Lois, but won't make any sort of move unless she can grow to love Clark. There's also mileage in the poignant update where she basically loves Clark and Superman, and not being able to decide between the two doesn't pursue either... but in both cases, the logical next step is finding out/being told and then the two being able to have a relationship.

(I also like the occasional "you actively lied to me for [X] years..?!" horror/comedy - that can lead to anger and a lessening of feelings - when she is told that her suspicions, repeatedly denied and 'disproven' ARE correct..!)

But she needs to get to know both separately. Particularly 'normal' Clark. He has to stand on his own feet, or the wrong-headed "Clark is the mask*" thought takes hold.

Has The Wedding Album ever been republished..? Seems like it should have been, but I wonder if it actually has...

Quite. It's different, and not necessarily good-different. However, the characters deserve happiness at some point...! The most obvious example is Peter Parker and MJ, who certainly belonged together and should be. That Marvel decided to split them up in the daftest way possible - despite Spider-man and the MU being nominally all about change and soap operatics, and therefore marriage is a reasonable destination for them - is sad. As is the now-non-marriage of Clark and Lois... as the end result of a ridiculously long and confusing courtship!




*With the associated nonsense espoused in Kill Bill that it's a commentary on humanity. Rubbish. It's an exaggerated persona carefully calculated to be NOTSuperman. That is all. He's not clumsy because he sees humans as clumsy, he's clumsy because Superman isn't.

Dimension X

Let me just say, you hated that movie much more than I liked it, so I won't be arguing with every (or maybe even many) point you made. I never said it was a "great film" or anything. I just said I liked it. To me, the positives outweighed the negatives, and the film didn't bore me, so overall, I liked it.

I could say the same about The Lone Ranger, Iron Man 3, or Thor 2 (The Dark Planet, or whatever) which I watched around the same time. None of those films were "great," or even "really good," but I still liked them.
I didn't even consider that it was some environmental message. Thinking about it after I'd made my post, I decided that it could've been just because they thought that flying thing would look cooler in 3D than a Jetsons flying car. If you saw it as a "message," then I can see why you were bugged by it.

If it's the first film in the new film universe, then no matter what they did, they were "true to themselves." That's all I was saying there. It's up to the film makers to work from there.

I just want to say that Superman staying hidden is nothing new. I remember a few early radio shows where he secretly saved people, and asked a couple of people who saw him to keep his secret.

And you're just guessing that "neither of them would have hesitated to reveal themself if it saved a life" since doing anything super (other than running home from school really fast) conveniently didn't come up until they went to Metropolis.
I said the film had negatives. No argument here.

Was it a "speedy" investigation? I don't recall how much time was supposed to have passed.
As I recall, in the post-Crisis comics, Lex went with the "you didn't think your idol could have a more mundane form" that you mention below.
Where are you getting that it was an accident? The way I remember it, he purposely Again, I didn't care for it in the comics back in '88 or in this movie.
It's called "suspension of disbelief."

Looks like i ended up talking more than I wanted to. I get it. You hated Man of Steel.

Dimension X

The "clumsy Clark" act was dropped post-Crisis (Dean Cain's Clark was based on that version), and George Reeves didn't play Clark as a klutz, so I'd say it isn't necessary to the character.

ntnon

And I genuinely appreciate your thoughts and you taking the time to share them. I don't have many avenues of like-minded people to rail to these days, so if I vent more here than I ought, my apologies!

Interestingly (or not!) I saw Thor 2 at the cinema and the other two borrowed from the library. I found TLR to be one of the best and most enjoyable films I've seen in years; Thor 2 to be close to on a par with Thor (which I consider one if the best Marvel and Superhero films) and IM3... not bad. Cleverer than many, flashier than it needed to be, but I concur closely there.

I probably would have ignored or even liked it had I not already been getting annoyed by crazy-placed flash-back/forwards' and shakey cameras... it seemed wrong for Smug Scientific Krypton and thus like lazy shorthand to set Jor El apart: he's not really meant to be 'apart', just not believed. You have a point about the 3D, too. I'll add that to my list..! "things done to 'look good' rather than serve the plot"..!

...fair point. But if you hang the Superman name on it (I realise the film's title did not - was that pointed, I wonder?) then he should be true to Superman.

Oh, I know. I'm arbitrarily deciding I know better...!

I can think of other secret savings, too - but surely the point to take away if that he still saved people. And if he revealed himself in the process, he asked them to keep his secret. So saving lives always outweighed his own privacy.

It was a 'film time' montage, but the impression I took away (with my biases and whatnot) was that it was a straight trail from recent employer to previous few to Pete Ross to Martha. It seemed very simple... and even if not, by proving it could be done once...

There's a good - if logic-stretching - story where Lex has a computer figure it out, but then when the computer tells him, he refuses to believe that Superman would ever be someone so mundane and then gives up the attempt..

I saw him merely restraining him' Zod struggling and each compensating for the other's strength until... maybe it's meant to be ambiguous. Or maybe I'm wrong. I even wonder if there's an argument to be made that

And for a reader that'd fine... and you can assume that people wouldn't recognise a billionaires chin (Batman), but 90% of the domino masked seem hazy... with Oliver Queen's distinctive face and fame being firmly at the top of the list..!

ntnon

True. I'm using "clumsy" as shorthand for stooping, loose clothes, hair rearranging and the other little changes of demeanour to make sure no-one suspects.

I have a slight soft spot for the Kryptonian blur effect that allows Superman to move has face fast enough to look slightly different and not be photographed.

It's just that if people bring up the 'which is the "real" person' debate, they usually try and pick between two (Superman and Kent), or three (Superman, Kal and Clark) when it's either a different three (not Kal) or four, because there are two Clarks: public and family.

shadokitty

I got my router in the mail today, with my wi fi connection classified as excellent, so I can use my roku in the living room or bedroom now easily, and move my laptop to either room just as easily. Watching tv laying on the couch right now.

mrcellophane

I'm almost done with the second season of One Tree Hill, and I had forgotten just how dark the show got in its sophomore season. One of the major cliffhangers of the first season was the heart attack of Dan Scott, series villain and all-around shitty dad/husband/person. Obviously, Dan survives, cause without him there wouldn't be as much malicious wrench-tossing, and they used the situation to morph him into a more duplicitous character: outwardly humbled and repentant but secretly a hurt, bitter puppet-master of evil.

Rewatching, I'm noticing that Dan's transformation and actions start poisoning those around him.This is saying a lot, because most of the drama in the first season stems from Dan's shitty actions in the past and the ramifications of those decisions in the present; he's the cause of these effects. However, second season Dan works more like a feeling or a tone. While his malicious actions are ultimately directed at a small portion of the cast, his false apologies and underlying meanness seem to rub off on those around him. After receiving a Dan apology, a character will act worse and more selfishly. Deb and Karen (Dan's wife and Dan's high school sweetheart) bear the brunt of his manipulation, and by the end of the season, they (Deb especially) are meaner, more screwed up versions of themselves.

The second season also introduced two of my favorite mishandled characters: Felix and Anna. They are siblings; brother is an entitled shit and sister is a confused romantic who has to apologize for some social slight every other episode. They could have been complex foils to the series regulars, but instead become plot devices to create drama and shoehorn in a muddled storyline about sexuality and hidden hearts of gold and freedom of speech and poor character development.

Dimension X

I've never been a fan of Thor anyway (I did enjoy Walt Simonson's run in the eighties), so it wasn't going to be a favorite of mine anyway. I felt like The Lone Ranger would've been better without the humor (which all fell flat to me), but the big action sequence™ with the two trains in the last act pushed the positive/negative balance into the positive for me. Iron Man seems to be following the Batman-Batman Returns-Batman Forever-Batman & Robin downward spiral; I expect in Iron Man IV his armor will have nipples and George Clooney will play M.O.D.O.K.

Some would say maybe Johnathan has more reason to distrust the government today. I'll just say that as a fifty-ish American male who had probably seen at least a few episodes of My Favorite Martian, Mork & Mindy, and/or ALF, Pa Kent would know that when you adopt an alien into your family, you're supposed to keep their true origins and special abilities secret from your neighbors or risk having them taken away by government agents.

That's what I was alluding to, from the Man of Steel mini-series (I think).


Man, talk about

What, no love for Super-Hypnotism inadvertently caused by wearing glasses with lenses made from the windows in his rocket ship making people see Clark as a skinny, sickly wimp?

shadokitty

I finished Wild China. Another great BBC Documentary series, and this on BD, so nature on BD looks magnificent I have to say.

LJG765

Haven't watched much for the challenge in the last couple days (did see August: Osage County but that was very depressing. While Julia Roberts and Meryl Streep are both very good in it, I just did not enjoy it!). I have watched a few episodes tonight of Beetlejuice. Like the fact that they've done a couple episodes in the "real" world. This will be odd since it is Beetlejuice, but this season seems to rely solely on how they can get him to change into different objects for the laugh. It's funny, but after awhile gets a bit old. I may only get through the first half of this season (4 discs) and save the last half for the animation challenge in a couple months. That way I don't O.D. on it.

shadokitty

I liked Beetlejuice, but after a while, I got a little tired of the real world episodes, it just seemed like they were relying too much on Lydia's friends Bertha and Prudence.

My next documentary series I chose was Meerkat Manor, Season 1. It was a good show, full of highs and lows, happiness and sadness.

LJG765

I'm on s. 4, and that seems like mostly in the Neitherworld, but I agree, in earlier seasons they do spend a lot of time in the "real world." Then again, it might change, I'm only through disc 2 out of 8 for the season. (8 epis/disc).

Dimension X

I just watched it, and the trailer for Harry Navak's Country Cuzzins is another one with some stuff that's not in the film. It looks like alternate takes of scenes in the movie rather than deleted scenes like with Southern Comforts though. More Rene Bond and more Debbie Osborne is always a good thing.

It's been at least a decade since I last watched Country Cuzzins. The scenes with Buck Flower and Rene Bond had me . It looked to me like their two longest scenes were actually just different, partly ad-libbed takes of the same scene (that I assume Bethel Buckalew liked so much he went ahead and used them both).

BobO'Link

I've been generally disappointed by the One Foot in the Grave "Christmas Specials" for S4-S5 simply because they feel padded to get the requisite 60+ minute running time. The one titled "One Foot in the Algarve" is the worst of them in that respect. It reminds me of the latter, bad, Pink Panther films with lots of forced comedy. There's an entire sub-plot about a roll of incriminating film that has *nothing* to do with the Meldrews and their trip to Portugal. It feels shoehorned in simply to have Peter Cook as a guest star and is nothing more than a lame Pink Panther emulation. There's another, rather lame, sub-plot involving a boxer but it's better than the "missing" film parts. Overall this could have been edited into a rather normal length episode and been far funnier and better. The other three from that era aren't so bad but are still padded in various degrees and suffer from rather poor 80s style soundtracks rather than the usual soundtrack music.

There were three of the "Christmas Specials" back-to-back and I'm ready to get back to the series proper for the final episodes.

shadokitty

I'm enjoying Clone Wars enough that I don't think I'll wait till the sci-fi and animation challenges to continue watching it. I'm planning to continue watching it as a side project during next month's Historical Challenge as well. 6 Seasons is a lot to get through, and saving only for challenges, it would take forever to finish it.

Mondo Kane

Probably the same for me too! It was definetly the first Rene Bond film I ever saw.

The thing that I'll always remember the most about it involves a death scene of a certain character. Certainly one of the greatest deaths I'll likely ever see in a sex comedy.

Which reminds me...Are you planning on watching Sweet Georgia soon? Unquestionably, the darkest of Novak's CCP (Country Corn Porn) films. I wonder what the reactions were when the ticketbuyers left the theater after seeing that one.

Dimension X

I'm pretty sure it was the first one I saw too, and it appears to be her first film. I just love the way she has her southern accent turned up to eleven.


I think Buckalew and Novak really missed out by not doing a whole movie with Rene Bond as an ingenue in Hollywood and Buck Flower as a pervert agent/producer/director/whatever. A quick look at IMDb and it appears Buckalew used her next in Below the Belt (with John Tull and Buck Flower). I liked Buck Flower's character in that flick, but a sex comedy with him and Rene Bond would've been better.

How could you not love this movie?

I watched it last month, along with Rene Bond in Country Hooker on the same disc. Neither of those films are comedies. I'd guess as long as they showed enough skin, most folks didn't care much.

LJG765

Finished disc 4 of Beetlejuice. Going to take a break as this is halfway-good spot to stop. Haven't decided what I'm going to watch next. Still have The Walking Dead on my goal list, plus tons more off of it, of course!