Ash Ketchum

Thanks for that link. I went through the list provided and found a number in my collection. Of those, here are the ones I've chosen that fit this challenge:

ALEXANDER
BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN
CABARET
THE COLOR PURPLE
ED WOOD
JFK
LAWRENCE OF ARABIA
THE LION IN WINTER
MERRY CHRISTMAS, MR. LAWRENCE
NEXT STOP, GREENWICH VILLAGE
QUEEN CHRISTINA
SPARTACUS
THE TIMES OF HARVEY MILK

Now, do they fit the LGBT checklist item?

Next question: what about films about supposedly gay historical figures that don't even hint at the characters' gayness? I'm thinking of ALEXANDER THE GREAT (1956), starring Richard Burton, and Larry Cohen's THE PRIVATE FILES OF J. EDGAR HOOVER (1977). Would they still qualify for the LGBT checklist item?

davidh777

It's pretty over the top, but in a violent way rather than a fantasy way.

Travis McClain

Good question. On the one hand, we should not reduce any person--historical or other--to one facet of their identity. On the other hand, the spirit of the LGBT check mark is to promote exposure to a story directly about the LGBT historical narrative. As much as I hate to place undue importance on an individual's sexual orientation, I think the LGBT check mark itself deserves to be filled by a film that does specifically explore the subject.

Travis McClain

One more thought: How do we feel about foreign language requirements for the checklist? I thought one non-English film should be a requirement, maybe as many as three with an option for up to five for over-achievers. The reasoning behind this is twofold.

1) History isn't just by or about English-speaking peoples, and in the interest of recognizing global diversity I think it appropriate for representing some of those stories.

2) The nature of a challenge checklist is to nudge people into exposing themselves to movies consistent with the challenge's theme, but that as a specific film they might otherwise have overlooked.

Any thoughts?

Doc Moonlight

I'm on board with foreign language films being on the checklist. I've been thinking about doing a series of films that depict the aftermath of war in different countries with films like DER VERLORENE, THE BICYCLE THIEF, THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES, etc.

I would add a "Contemporary Western" to the checklist. Here I'm thinking of films like JUNIOR BONNER, LONELY ARE THE BRAVE, BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, COOGAN'S BLUFF, etc.

I'd also add an iconic film to the checklist. On principle,I don't like iconic films being relegated to wild card status as I think they are important historic depictions of their era. I tend to think of them as "Zeitgeist" films. Wild cards are usually for things that "don't quite fit", and I do think these films do fit and are legitimate. On the other hand, I made the same argument last year and wound up not watching a single one, so maybe I'm making a specious argument.

Last year I had fun by making a subset of historic films featuring Vincent Price. This year the "star" of my challenge will be Ernie Borgnine.

Travis McClain

An intriguing idea. I look forward to your reflections in the discussion thread!

I actually considered that when I expanded the Western sub-checklist, but I think the chronological setting is much more important to our challenge than the geographical or even cultural setting of a modern Western. It's fine if anyone wants to watch and count modern Westerns, but I'm reluctant to make them part of the formal checklist.

I actually had "Zeitgeist film" as one of the General check marks until the very last iteration of the checklist. I'm not big on wild cards anyway (which is why I halved it from last year's six to this year's three), and I asked, "Well, what is the point of a wild card in this challenge anyway?" The only thing I could reasonably answer was that it had to be the kind of movie that didn't clearly conform to anything else on the checklist, but that someone could make an argument for watching during this challenge. That really only left Zeitgeist films, because I think everything else is well-represented. That was my logic for consolidating Zeitgeist with the Wild Cards.

Ash Ketchum

Maybe in the category about wars between other countries, one or more of them should be foreign-language films. (I've already got Japanese and Hong Kong films picked for that category myself.)

My recommendation to others here would be the South Korean film, TAEK GUK GI: THE BROTHERHOOD OF WAR (2004), about two brothers in the Korean War, with nary an American in sight.

Travis McClain

I looked at it, and I decided to just add a Foreign Language subset to the checklist. Minimum of 3, but an optional fourth and fifth for overachievers who want to get to some of their Criterion titles and get to show off. I decided not to confine it to the war section because I think there are plenty of bio pics, documentaries, etc. that participants will want to watch and this way those count for the foreign language section, too. If you decide to watch foreign language war films, it lets you double up on check marks but this way there's more leeway for those who might want to watch non-war foreign language films. Sound reasonable?

Also, I've got one more thought but I haven't gotten very far with it: films that have had an impact on society. For instance, Streets of Philadelphia was a contemporary film that had tremendous impact on public understanding of AIDS. Guess Who's Coming to Dinner? made quite an impact on racial issues during the civil rights era. These are really a subset of Zeitgeist films, though, and as I can't articulate this any further I'm not going to incorporate it into this year's checklist but I would like to hear any thoughts anyone has about it.

Ash Ketchum

Your approach to foreign language films on the checklist sounds reasonable to me. I've got plenty of non-war Hong Kong and Japanese films to watch.

I think a case can be made for zeitgeist films being eligible, esp. since they're so often looked back on now as historical documents.

However, everyone ridiculed GUESS WHO'S COMING TO DINNER in 1967. (And have continued doing so ever since.) I would argue that IN THE HEAT OF THE NIGHT (Best Picture winner that year) had a bigger impact. Read Mark Harris' "Pictures at a Revolution," which scrutinizes the five Best Picture nominees that year (the other three being BONNIE AND CLYDE, THE GRADUATE, and DR. DOLITTLE).

I don't remember STREETS OF PHILADELPHIA at all. There's nothing like that on IMBD. Are you thinking of Jonathan Demme's PHILADELPHIA with Tom Hanks?

Travis McClain

This will be my go-to defense if anyone else challenges me!

We need to be clear: zeitgeist films *are* eligible for viewing (though I'd discourage anyone from concentrating heavily on them). I'm just reluctant to make them a checklist requirement.

Funny thing: I've been meaning to read that book since before it even hit print and still haven't gotten to it. In any event, you're absolutely right to call me out on the title; I'm scatter-brained right now after a particularly rough night. I actually had meant to type In Heat of the Night and for some reason all I could think of was Guess Who's Coming to Dinner? The weird part was, I wasn't even picturing the original! I kept having a mental image of Bernie Mac and Ashton Kutcher. It's amazing I'm even coherent right now.

Yeah. "Streets of Philadelphia" was the Springsteen song from that movie. But you gotta give me credit for being a lot closer here than the previous example!

davidh777

Today's Gold Box: Man with No Name trilogy on Blu for $23.99. Very tempting, and nice timing besides.

Ash Ketchum

It was probably inspired by my research for this challenge, but I had a dream last night in which I found myself in Tombstone, Arizona in the 1880s. Snow covered the ground. There was a body of water next to the saloon and it was not uncommon for drunks to fall in and drown. [In reality, there is no body of water in or around Tombstone.] There were three modern girls together on the street and they were trying to adjust to their western fashions. That's all I recall.

Travis McClain

In the event of rapture tomorrow, I'll likely still be here to host in June. We'll see then about incorporating zombie films as they may or may not be appropriate.

pagefrance

I'm in for this challenge, though I probably won't be able to get my list as long as they has been for previous challenges where I see films primarily from my own DVD collection.
When I make my own numbered list I'm planning on making it like this:
Title of film / Historical period or event on which the film is based
Example:
1. Les Miserables / 19th century France, Rebellion of June 1832

Ash Ketchum

Make sure you include the year of release for the film. There've been a zillion versions of LES MISERABLES. We want to know which one you saw.

Dimension X

I did something similar to this with my list last year.

Example:
Winchester '73 (1950) - Time: 1876 / Conflict: Indian Wars / Location(s): Dodge City, KS to Tascosa, TX

jmsmath

What's the ruling on fictional sports movies this year? I'm thinking about movies like The Natural, Field of Dreams, For Love of the Game, etc. I think they were eventually included last year after initially being ruled out, but I can't really remember for sure.

BuddhaWake

I like those ideas. I usually just do title and year but I like this.

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi

Would this count since it modern day?

Ash Ketchum

Made in 2005 and takes place--mostly--in 1963. That's historical.

BobO'Link

Travis McClain

List thread now active for those who want to begin formatting.

Sorry it's almost all cut & paste from here; I've got 2nd degree burns on my left hand and typin's hard! Should be sufficient, though.

Trevor

Brain farted today. As part of my goal to watch 53 Criterion films this year, I started the Early Films of Samuel Fuller boxset. After watching two of them, I realized that they are the very definition of historical films. Doh! Should have waited a few days.

Hope the hand's ok MinL. What happened?

omike

Yes. I watched the Samuel Fuller set last year and it fit in perfectly. Other Eclipse sets that I know about and would work for this challenge are Series 4: Raymond Bernard which has Wooden Crosses (WW 1) and a four plus hour version of Les misérables. Both really well done. Also, for the Make Your Own Challenge Challenge I'm going through Eclipse Series 23: The First Films of Akira Kurosawa which has two films set in the 1880's, one in the 12th century, and one contemporary film which is a home front WW 2 propaganda film so that should fit in as well.

And yes MinLShaw, when you are able please let us know about your hand. I hope its better soon!

shadokitty

I know spoofs of westenrs are eligible as I saw that mentioned, so I know movies like Blazing Saddles would probably count, but how about spoofs of other historical figures? I ask because I also own Robin Hood Men in Tights, and if that would be eligible, I would probably count it.