Summer Sci-Fi Challenge 09 - Discussion Thread

[Boogie76]

Originally Posted by caligulathegod

No one is forcing anyone to watch Fantasy. If a participant chooses to keep his list pure, then he is welcome to stick to SF exclusively. For a handful of us who would like to include other Genre work, I don't see the harm in it. It's not like we're asking to include Westerns or something. These Genres have a long intertwined history.

I totally agree with this. I am keeping my list strictly sci-fi, but I have no problem if somebody wants to watch LOTR or something like that. I mean arguably Star Wars is more fantasy than sci-fi, since true sci-fi should at least have some basis in reality.

Trying to distinguish the two seems like splitting hairs, and as we've seen IMDB is not infallible with its listings. It's not like people are clamoring to watch Public Enemies and claiming it's sci-fi.

[Ginwen]

I am following the original rule which says AllMovie.com or IMDB, not just IMDB (they don't always agree). It's not like they're perfect but it just keeps it simple, which is great since this is just supposed to be fun anyway, and then I don't have to ask anyone if this or that should count I can just look for myself.

I'm not counting Fantasy unless one of those sites lists it as SF -- so yes I counted Day Watch which really isn't SF (although I had to watch that to know it) since allmovie.com lists it as SF.

I also think it's for fun so people can count what makes it fun for them.

Also while I'm spouting my meaningless crap, I would've preferred no prizes, or prizes randomly given to someone chosen fromt those who watched at least 100 (which doesn't benefit me I won't watch 100 anyway). I've seen cases where it seemed like people totally inflated their totals when prizes were involved, and then people got pissed, and threads got locked.

[Trevor]

(this is all just my opinion of course)

I agree that prizes should not be part of it. We don't want to turn this into a Horror Challenge where people claim 10 or more films per day for the entire month.

And yes, sci-fi and fantasy are linked, but they don't have to be for this challenge. This is a sci-fi challenge. If someone wants to watch vampires or elves, they should start a fantasy challenge. We have 8 months here without a challenge, lots of room for other genres to be given their due.

[RobCA]

Personally, I've always thought it should be a "sci-fi and fantasy" challenge since, as Trevor said, the two genres are linked.

And not to split hairs, but we actually have 6 months here without a challenge, not 8. March-June, August and September. And August and September probably wouldn't work, since they're right after, and right before, existing challenges.

Come to think of it, March probably wouldn't work either, since it's a week after the Oscar challenge ends. Anyway, I totally disagree that there's "lots of room" for other challenges, so why not combine two genres that are already linked?

Rob

[Giles]

Originally Posted by RobCA

Personally, I've always thought it should be a "sci-fi and fantasy" challenge since, as Trevor said, the two genres are linked.

And not to split hairs, but we actually have 6 months here without a challenge, not 8. March-June, August and September. And August and September probably wouldn't work, since they're right after, and right before, existing challenges.

Rob

not to digress from the topic on hand, but I agree, I know at one point there was talk of doing an "animation" challenge, which would encompass films and TV (which the SciFi challenge allows more freely than the other challenges)

[Trevor]

6 full months, but then 2 other months where the challenge is only a week of that month.

And why do the challenges have to be separated anyway? Not everyone participates in each challenge. We could have 30 challenges if we wanted to. Foreign, Western, Animation, Comedy, Criterion, and B-Movie seem prime candidates off the top of my head. Actually, scratch all that. My OCD can't handle more challenges.

But sure, I can see why many would like to combine them. I just think there is enough distinction to keep sci-fi and fantasy separate.

I think I may be watching the worst movie of the challenge right now, War of the Planets.

[Numes]

Wow, it seems I missed some conversation about a Fantasy discussion. I think I said my piece last year and still firmly believe that this challenge should be Sci-Fi only and Fantasy should not be lumped in with this challenge. It's the Sci-Fi challenge, not Sci-Fi and Fantasy challenge, they are unique and separate genres. Are there titles that are both? of course, but pure Fantasy movies do not belong in a Sci-Fi challenge.

Originally Posted by Mister Peepers

I'm actually surprised with The Sarah Conner Chronicles. I know people were saying it eventually goes downhill but it's not going down as fast as Captain Power. Every episode of that just makes it sink lower and lower. It also seems like they spent all their cgi funds up in the first few episodes since they pretty much got rid of the flying robots and switched it to one special cgi robot that isn't in the show that much.

I actually liked SCC through what I saw. I didn't see the last half of Season 2, but I thoroughly enjoyed what I did see. I know there were flaws, but it was a lot better than a lot of shows out there. The season finale of season 1 was excellent, IMO.

[Mister Peepers]

Originally Posted by hindolio

so who is gabbo again?

[Mister Peepers]

Originally Posted by Ginwen

Also while I'm spouting my meaningless crap, I would've preferred no prizes, or prizes randomly given to someone chosen fromt those who watched at least 100 (which doesn't benefit me I won't watch 100 anyway). I've seen cases where it seemed like people totally inflated their totals when prizes were involved, and then people got pissed, and threads got locked.

Next time I may do it randomly and it may be in ranges of 50-100, 101-150, 151+. Prizes are coming from discount stores(dollar store, big lots) and are sci-fi related. They're pretty much the equivalent of a trophy one would win out of a 25 cent machine. I felt it was a good way to encourage watching but not enough to go crazy with inflated scores.

Originally Posted by RobCA

why not combine two genres that are already linked?

Makes sense.

Originally Posted by Trevor

And yes, sci-fi and fantasy are linked, but they don't have to be for this challenge. This is a sci-fi challenge.

Also makes sense and was my original intention. Never realized fantasy would be requested to become a part of it.

Originally Posted by Trevor

B-Movie seem prime candidates off the top of my head

I'd love to do that but I don't even want to think about the discussions of deciding which movies do or don't count, especially with more recent movies.

Originally Posted by Numes

It's the Sci-Fi challenge, not Sci-Fi and Fantasy challenge, they are unique and separate genres.

I'm beginning to think it would be easier to just run two separate challenges at the same time for both of them. Some films could show up on both lists and then it'd be easier to be a lot more strict on going by imdb and allmovie with very few obvious exceptions such as Austin Powers. I'm really leaning towards doing this.

For now, I'm sticking with that sort of strategy on my viewings. I don't like changing the challenge in the middle of it. As of now, as long as there's a good argument for a movie being sci-fi that isn't, we can do the discussions to figure it out.

Caligula made a good argument for True Blood. I know nothing of it but just reading the wikipedia article on it really makes it looks like it's primarily a drama and didn't mention anything he said. Based off that, I'd say it doesn't count unless someone knows something more about it than me.

When it comes to deciding stuff for me, if I think I'll need to argue something, I'll just skip it and watch something else that is obviously sci-fi since there's enough of it around to not worry about.

[GenPion]

I think the Fantasy titles should be included as well since it's so subjective and people seem to enjoy putting them together. I don't think it would really harm anyone to leave it up to the person watching things, so long as there are no objections from other members. As long as it's still obviously sci-fi/fantasy themed I think that would work best overall.

I agree though that running two separate ones at the same time might work also. I don't object to that, and if it occurred I'd participate in both (and I'm sure many others on DVDTalk would as well).

[advdfreak]

I wouldn't mind if you combined Sci-Fi and Fantasy for the challenge next year. It would make it more appealing maybe for more to participate.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Mister Peepers

I don't like changing the challenge in the middle of it.

I'd agree. As per usual DVDTalk Challenge history, we can have a discussion or planning thread afterwards, or at least before next July, to discuss changes. But in the end, it's your game, so all of us just try to change your mind.

Originally Posted by Mister Peepers

... it'd be easier to be a lot more strict on going by imdb and allmovie with very few obvious exceptions such as Austin Powers. ... As of now, as long as there's a good argument for a movie being sci-fi that isn't, we can do the discussions to figure it out.

Sounds fair.

Originally Posted by Mister Peepers

When it comes to deciding stuff for me, if I think I'll need to argue something, I'll just skip it and watch something else that is obviously sci-fi since there's enough of it around to not worry about.

That's my plan too. I started with a pile of films, but have put a few aside for next month, as it is easy to stick to the "IMDB rule" and still have plenty of choices.

Of course, the overall goal, imo, is to be as inclusive as possible, and to encourage viewing and discussion. So I concede that including fantasy would be good, for next year.

Also, did we ever come up with a firm "movie of the week" schedule?

[caligulathegod]

We count, without blinking an eye, watching the same movie 4-5 times with nothing more than an alternate soundtrack of someone describing the action and how enjoyable so-and-so is to work with but Fantasy will somehow totally disrupt the integrity of a freaking internet movie challenge? I have probably a half dozen titles I wanted to hit this month to augment the SF. No one is going to die if a few of us watch The Dark Crystal. If you don't like Fantasy, simply don't watch it. You are welcome to watch Blade Runner 9 times instead.

[brainee]

I think I may have suffered brain damage from attempting the following movie for the first time:

[Mister Peepers]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Also, did we ever come up with a firm "movie of the week" schedule?

Nobody seemed to complain about this, so I added it to the first post along with the TMC schedule for the 20th.

July 1st - 5th: Matrix Trilogy
6th - 12th: Star Wars Movies
13th - 19th: Star Trek Movies
20th - 26th : Aliens
27th - 31st: Back To The Future

I'll admit I'm behind on this. I've seen the first and second movie but not the extended version of the second and I don't remember much of anything about it.

Right now I'm 25 minutes into the first one on my blu-ray set and just under an hour remaining on my rifftrax version. My wife hates rifftrax so I end up watching that separately and only watch the regular movie when she gets off work at night.

I think the movie still stands up over time but some of the special effects, like reflections in Morpheus's glasses look lame compared to everything else.

Worst thing about the movie was dealing with countless other films that thought copying bullet time would make up for crappy plots/acting.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by caligulathegod

We count, without blinking an eye, watching the same movie 4-5 times with nothing more than an alternate soundtrack of someone describing the action and how enjoyable so-and-so is to work with but Fantasy will somehow totally disrupt the integrity of a freaking internet movie challenge? I have probably a half dozen titles I wanted to hit this month to augment the SF. No one is going to die if a few of us watch The Dark Crystal. If you don't like Fantasy, simply don't watch it. You are welcome to watch Blade Runner 9 times instead.

Wow, such hostility!

Keep in mind that this has always been set as sci-fi only, and has always had the rules that commentaries and multiple versions count. That is the OP's prerogative, and it has been that way since the beginning. The OP stated that he had no idea people would want to include fantasy, and some concur. They are as separate as comedy and action in some people's minds.

You are free to watch whatever you want of course. I have watched several things that don't count in the last week, and I will for the rest of the month as well. I have the Chronicles of Narnia in my hand as we "speak".

I was only planning on watching Blade Runner 5 times, but now I'll do 9 or more. Off to track down the variant San Diego Con version.....

[chris_sc77]

Originally Posted by caligulathegod

We count, without blinking an eye, watching the same movie 4-5 times with nothing more than an alternate soundtrack of someone describing the action and how enjoyable so-and-so is to work with but Fantasy will somehow totally disrupt the integrity of a freaking internet movie challenge? I have probably a half dozen titles I wanted to hit this month to augment the SF. No one is going to die if a few of us watch The Dark Crystal. If you don't like Fantasy, simply don't watch it. You are welcome to watch Blade Runner 9 times instead.

This is a sci-fi challenge and being a challenge there are rules.
You can watch the dark Crystal or whatever you like BUT ONLY sci-fi titles SHOULD BE listed in your sci-fi challenge scorecard.
There are rules in this challenge and they are there for a reason.

[Darkgod]

Man i love not being in the middle of this arguement.... I'll save that for someones 400+ Horror list in October.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Darkgod

Man i love not being in the middle of this arguement.... I'll save that for someones 400+ Horror list in October.

I've won a couple of the non-horror challenges, but I've never averaged more than 7 or 8 hours of viewing per day to do so. That is, of course, quite excessive and a sign of mental instability. But each year, somebody doubles those totals to win the horror challenge. I'm either really impressed, saddened, or unbelieving; a combination of all three actually.

[Dimension X]

This whole Fantasy and SciFi thing should've been ironed out last month if people wanted to change the rules. Now that it's already underway, I don't think we should change (but I'm okay with adding Fantasy films to the July challenge for next year).

Originally Posted by Trevor

And why do the challenges have to be separated anyway? Not everyone participates in each challenge. We could have 30 challenges if we wanted to. Foreign, Western, Animation, Comedy, Criterion, and B-Movie seem prime candidates off the top of my head. Actually, scratch all that. My OCD can't handle more challenges.

I'd kinda like to see a Make-Your-Own-Challenge challenge where we could toss the neglected genres into one month and each participant chooses which genre (or star, or director, or whatever) he/she wishes to watch and list that month.

Originally Posted by Mister Peepers

Nobody seemed to complain about this, so I added it to the first post along with the TMC schedule for the 20th.

Here's the direct link to the TCM page for the July 20th films: http://www.tcm.com/thismonth/article/?cid=241098

[hindolio]

so lemme get this straight, since i am, once again, a "___________" challenge noob... there is one guy on here (in this case, peepers) who sponsors this "sci-fi" challenge, of his free will and with good intentions. being a contest based on the honor system, peepers sets up a few basic guidelines and rules. and talks endlessly about a so-called gabbo.

in addition, anyone can do something like this. and many do, each year.

sounds simple. lets let peepers have the final say yesh?

Originally Posted by Mister Peepers

Nobody seemed to complain about this, so I added it to the first post along with the TMC schedule for the 20th.

July 1st - 5th: Matrix Trilogy
6th - 12th: Star Wars Movies
13th - 19th: Star Trek Movies
20th - 26th : Aliens
27th - 31st: Back To The Future

I'll admit I'm behind on this. I've seen the first and second movie but not the extended version of the second and I don't remember much of anything about it.

Right now I'm 25 minutes into the first one on my blu-ray set and just under an hour remaining on my rifftrax version. My wife hates rifftrax so I end up watching that separately and only watch the regular movie when she gets off work at night.

I think the movie still stands up over time but some of the special effects, like reflections in Morpheus's glasses look lame compared to everything else.

Worst thing about the movie was dealing with countless other films that thought copying bullet time would make up for crappy plots/acting.

is this part of a discussion on the matrix now?

[caligulathegod]

Who's hostile? I'm not the one laying down the law limiting and excluding what other people can watch. I don't know. There's just something inherently contentious in SF/Fantasy Fandom. "SF" vs "Sci Fi (skiffy)." There's the Star Wars/Star Trek divide. Joel vs Mike. Sci Fi vs Fantasy. Balrog wings yes or no. It's like we need some competition but are too nerdy for sports.

We actually were supposed to discuss including fantasy this year but it got handwaved off before it got started. I'm not sure what good discussion ever does, anyway. We always get stuck with the original draft of rules because people get so attached to them they fight tooth and nail every change regardless of the potential of improvement.

I've only ever been supportive of inclusion over exclusion, enriching over limiting. I'd rather make these challenges fun for everyone. There's no money in this. The prizes are just for fun and I don't expect to hit the cutoff anyway.

[RobCA]

Originally Posted by Dimension X

I'd kinda like to see a Make-Your-Own-Challenge challenge where we could toss the neglected genres into one month and each participant chooses which genre (or star, or director, or whatever) he/she wishes to watch and list that month.

I really like this idea.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by hindolio

so lemme get this straight, since i am, once again, a "___________" challenge noob... there is one guy on here (in this case, peepers) who sponsors this "sci-fi" challenge, of his free will and with good intentions. being a contest based on the honor system, peepers sets up a few basic guidelines and rules. and talks endlessly about a so-called gabbo.

in addition, anyone can do something like this. and many do, each year.

sounds simple. lets let peepers have the final say yesh?

You're now a DVDTalk Challenge expert.

Originally Posted by hindolio

is this part of a discussion on the matrix now?

Yes. I'm behind in watching those, not sure how many of "the list" I'll get to this year, as I'm on a mission to plow thru my massive unwatched pile. Besides, I don't think I can bear to watch the Matrix sequels again. I did just buy the Matrix blu-ray though, so I might get to the original.

Originally Posted by caligulathegod

Who's hostile? I'm not the one laying down the law limiting and excluding what other people can watch.

Nobody is laying down any laws. Watch anything you want. I'm watching lots of non sci-fi this month.

Originally Posted by Dimension X

I'd kinda like to see a Make-Your-Own-Challenge challenge where we could toss the neglected genres into one month and each participant chooses which genre (or star, or director, or whatever) he/she wishes to watch and list that month.

Originally Posted by RobCA

I really like this idea.

Sounds like RobCA and DimensionX have volunteered to start the next DVDTalk Challenge.

[RobCA]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Nobody is laying down any laws. Watch anything you want. I'm watching lots of non sci-fi this month.

Har har. Obviously, he meant, "I'm not the one laying down the law limiting and excluding what other people can watch and count".

Rob