The Man with the Golden Doujinshi

I will say that I think a lot of fighting would go away if the rules were much simpler, like:

1. Horror movies only(Masters of Horror are movies). No documentaries, making of..., etc. If it's listed in the horror category at imdb.com or allmovie.com it counts, if it doesn't say horror, it doesn't.

2.You can't watch the same movie more than once but you can watch different versions. You can also watch with commentary and without.

3. Runtime of 40 minutes or more since that's been established by film people. While movies have to normally be 60 minutes to get into theaters, we aren't restricted by watching things that only get shown in theaters. If you have a student horror film festival and some are 45 minutes, they count. Under 40 doesn't.

4. No wild cards. If you want to watch Charley Brown for fun, go ahead but it won't count.

EdTheRipper

I completely disagree. I think people SHOULD be able to discuss others' lists. Sometimes that will lead to complaints, sometimes it won't. Basically the moderator told us that people could post that they watched 50 movies in a day and that we couldn't discuss it. Seems kind of silly. And not to take anything away from the moderators of this particular forum, but it seems as if a lot of things went totally ignored during this year's challenge. That's a big reason why things wound up getting so out of hand.

I couldn't agree with you more. Coming into this year's challenge, I was all for the 40-minute feature rule. Seeing how it became exploited so easily turned me around on that point. I think there should be a higher cut-off time. 55 minutes or so seems like it would be reasonable enough.
Also, I think what you said earlier about making it a MOVIE challenge is accurate. Near the end, I noticed a ton of non-features being listed. DVD extras, cable documentaries and the like shouldn't be allowed. Also, we really should do away with allowing Masters of Horror as it opens up too many arguments regarding other titles. Just make it a challenge and allow strictly MOVIES to count. If you want to watch 75 documentaries about serial killers you can, but it shouldn't count.

Giles

I had fun this year, and I made it to my personal goal of 100 - considering I also saw

-three theatrical plays
-one concert
-thirteen television shows/episodes (non-horror)
-8 commercial non-horror movies in the theatre.
-saw 'The Nightmare Before Christmas - 3D' twice -
-watching 'Saw III' and the original 'King Kong' twice because one I didn't realize the former would have released later in October in a longer cut and the two, the commentary track for Warner Bros. release of King Kong was sooo disappointing that I felt compelled to buy and then rewatch the film with a different much better commentary (Criterion laserdisc)
-and a weekend to the beach.

Trevor

I don't think there are many of these 40 minute, or even sub-60 minute movies. Maybe season two was shorter, but MOH season one was usually at 57-63 minutes, most at least 60. These sub hour films are largely a myth. I have a large collection, and searched there and online for shorter films, and found maybe four films under an hour. And they were 50+ minutes.

Personally, I watched some of my longest horror films, but more of my shorter ones. Not for the numbers, I knew I wasn't going to come close to "winning", but because I was going thru my unwatched movies largely, and used this challenge as an excuse to watch as many as possible. I think about 110ish of my 150ish were new to me. My plan in general is to start watching my unwatched DVDs, and I got half of my unwatched horror out of the way thanks to the challenge.

See, that is the thinking that none of us should be doing. We shouldn't care at all about numbers or "winning". We need to get out of that mindset entirely IMO.

If you want to watch a mini-series that is fifteen hours, awesome. If someone else wants to watch 15 MOH episodes, awesome! Both are equal in my book.

If someone chooses to watch 400 sub 60 minute features/docs/whatever, hurray for them. If someone else watches 20 "real length" movies, hurray for them. If someone joins the challenge, and only manages to watch half of one film, hurray! They're all equal winners in my book.

The numbers shouldn't matter. It is the content that matters, the lists, the discussion, the movies.

FusionX

I tried to balance out my documentaries (and I don't feel I "exploited" the allowance given how many actual movies I also watched), but since it was in the rules, no one should complain about the contest that has ended. I think list discussion is hilarious and should be allowed, it is great and I am glad Ed is up to old tricks. In truth, without Ed's rants I wouldn't have had as much fun and I look forward to him complaining about how far ahead of him I am next year.

And Ed, who watched 75 serial killer documentaries and who watched 50 movies in one day? Seriously?

I just skimmed my list and while I did watch a number of serial killer/real paranormal/documentaries, I still would have been over 300 if I used that same time toward standard feature films. The argument Ed is making is futile and a few extra minutes here and there doesn't have an impact that warrants discussion.

Trevor

FusionX

Please tell me you pulled your hair out for at least 57 minutes!

EdTheRipper

I really don't know why you continue to flame me. My post had nothing to do with anyone specific. I was simply painting a very broad picture. If you think it pertains to you, or anyone else for that matter, think again. The argument that you say I'm making wasn't even started by me...I'm basically backing what caligula said. The challenge is over so perhaps it's time for you to crawl back under whatever rock you were under before it began.

Darkgod

Well Ii saw Fusion and View watching the serial killer/haloween docs/ and anything involving horror. Truthfully watchinig them, I felt like I was exploiting a loophole. I for one, don't think they should be allowed next year. I also dont think any tv shows besides MOH should be aloud. How about a rule that states that exactly and if any lists them they don't count towards the total.

Fusion, you absolutly ruined this contest for me this year. Being my first one, you where nothing short of annoying. Now I know u wont post on the boards until next year around this time, but I seriously doubt im doing this because of you.

FusionX

You mean the Tv and HD forums? Don't worry, I won't post about professional wrestling. And dude, don't throw stones if you have such thin skin. Also, I am just responding to your claims and you have to sink to go with personal attacks, how lame. (comment removed about a certain's woman's weight)

steelpotato

If there's going to be prizes:
60 minute minimum
Cinematic release at some point is essential (I guess this would rule out all of Masters of Horror bar Sick Girl and Cigarette Burns which played at buttnumbathon 2005, but too bad)
Times films were watched and their run time should be given, within 24 hours

But really, there's no way to police any of this so just dump the prizes, keep it to if imdb says it is 'horror' then it counts, medium doesn't matter ie tv or dtv and a 40 minute runtime is ok
documentaries should definitely have to be cinematic releases to count though.

FusionX

60 minute minimum and real time updates are good, but would one off theater showings still count?

NoirFan

Also saw this. The image seemed improperly framed - the top of people's heads kept getting cut off, which was quite distracting. Anyone else notice this?

steelpotato

I would say so, though can't think of a horror film that had only one showing, there must have been a few over the years at things like Fright Fest and Fantastic Fest etc.

There was a film in New Zealand at last year's film festival called 'Event 16' that had only one showing, but that's sci-fi

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi

I know I said I wouldn't come back but I got a PM about something and decided I'm a liar, so here I am.

I'll negotiate a 55 minute minimum for those few Universals that are just under 55.

You have to include non-cinematic releases though. There's just too many horror movies that'll be missed if someone does a marathon, such as:
Hellraiser 5, 6, 7, 8
The Omen Part 4
The Howling 4, 5, 6, 7
American Psycho 2
Amityville 5, 6, 7, 8
Candyman 3
Carnosaur 2, 3
Children of the Corn 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Creepshow 3
Critters 3, 4
Day of the Dead 2
From Dusk Till Dawn 2, 3
Guinea Pig 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Ju-On 1(part 2 was at theaters)
Leprechaun 3, 4, 5, 6
Mimic 2
Prom Night 3
The Prophecy 4, 5(not sure about 2 and 3)
Pumpkinhead 2
Scarecrow(all of them)
Terror Toons 1, 2
Warlock 3
Wishmaster 2, 3, 4
Faces of Death(at least not the first one)

Not only will marathons suffer but we also won't be able to watch some Troma classics or Asylum classics.

caligulathegod

Thank you. This is what I wanted: some actual debate. Last year, we had a simple up-down vote that became binding with no debate and no chance to discuss reasons for the decisions we made, which I thought was unfair. You don't HAVE to agree with me. Hell, last year I was bringing up stuff even I didn't agree with. My word isn't law, nor should it be. I wanted to bring up as objectively as I could some issues that crept up this year and see what others thought of it. We can disagree and we can change our minds, but we shouldn't consider debate and discussion to be fighting and get our thread closed. Please, if we discuss issues that perhaps pertain to you, don't take it personally. Everything that happened in the challenge this year was legal and there was no cheating, according to the rules we established. What we are discussing is more in the spirit of refining the contest and making it fair and fun for everyone.

About the 50 movie sets. No one ever said you couldn't use any and all films from them... if they meet the rules of the challenge. Someone said that their set had multiple 50 minute movies (which I suspect probably had longer original running times but got truncated in the public domain prints they transferred). My comment was about that.

It seems to me where we went wrong was the idea that this challenge can be "won". Last year, someone even chastised me for a slip where I called it a contest. It's not a contest. It's also not a watch whatever you want challenge. What we are celebrating is a movie genre. Horror is a very well represented genre and we don't need crutches to meet the challenge. I'd be willing to take documentaries off the table. Those seemed to be the most "exploited". It's a shame. I was hoping for exploitation docs of the 60s and 70s rather than watching A&E biography all day. Yes, it was legal, but it wasn't the same as watching a movie. I have no doubt that those who watched the TV docs would have spent the exact same amount of time watching movies if that's what the rules had stated.

We might not even need a runtime rule if we take out the docs. TV and DVD non-fiction is the only thing that really is that much under an hour. Any legitimate movie would reach 60 minutes (more or less) by default. And that's what it's about. It's a movie challenge.

Someone brought up disbanding the wildcard system. Was there actually a controversy over them? I didn't notice any. I thought it worked out pretty well. It brought in a bit of variety. What happened was that subjects that were intended to be taken care of with wildcards were mainstreamed and allowed lists to reach seemingly exaggerated proportions.

We don't want to make this challenge a burden. I don't think we need to log running times. It's meant to be fun. Take TV and DVD docs out of the picture and have a reasonable runtime expectation and the rest will take care of itself. While it's easy to say it doesn't matter what is watched, if we have prizes and bragging rights, we should all be on the same page. Perusing lists shows me that we all take Horror very seriously. Why not keep this challenge pure and about the movies rather than who can go without the most sleep and somehow defy physics and the spacetime continuum and get the biggest number?

caligulathegod

I agree. DTV is the "drive-in" of the 80s-00s. It's unfair to exclude them.

FusionX

I'm down with however it plays out, documentaries out or not. I counted documentaries because to me, they are horror (to me real life ghosts & slashers are scarier than low rent makeup and shrill music cues), whereas I didn't list the Tim Lucas commentaries I listened to, because even though the rules included them, I didn't consider them to be horror. MOH won't be an issue for me, as I've seen them all and refuse to suffer through them again. Like I said, I'll be agreeable with whatever is decided.

nemein

This is the best piece of advice I've seen in this thread yet I can't believe some of you people are still arguing and doing the same things that got the challenge closed for awhile Please give it a rest or do we have to ban you from next year's challenge as well?


Mod note:
Fusion and Ed I suggest you put each other on your respective ignore lists for awhile. You've shown the two of you can't play well together. The mods are discussing the issue but in the mean time this is probably the best immediate solution.

FusionX

Nemein, not a problem. I will not be talking about or responding to Ed & Co. for the duration.

Shack

So the rule could be, either theatrically released or direct to video? That seems right to me.

My additional two cents (borrowing from some thoughts above):
-No documentaries unless they were released theatrically
-Set a 55-minute (or 57) length minimum
-If any reference source names a movie as horror, it counts
-Watch either with commentary or without (or MST3k version or normal), but only count once
-Make a good faith attempt to update your list every day
-The goal is 100. Everyone above that number "wins" and is eligible for any prizes
-Wildcards? I liked them, but I'll go with the majority opinion

FusionX

I vote to keep wildcards, they're a fun diversion.

caligulathegod

I'll be honest, I didn't think we had much problem this year with genre. Thrillers might be questionable, but I'd still count them as long as there is some mortal peril. I wouldn't count a thriller that involves, say, a heist or some general crime (most Hitchcock's, for example). As long as the primary plot involves someone's life in danger and there is an effort toward suspense, then I see no problem including them. I've always argued for inclusion rather than exclusion as far as genre is concerned. The first year was a mess, with people counting WWF, Simpsons, Roseanne, etc. Last year we had a sincere question about ET, but the process worked and it was shot down. This year the only issue was the mega-lists and the unfortunately harsh words that met them.

If there is some student film or independent film under 55 minutes, then count it towards the wild cards. That's what they are for, things that don't fit the official rule. I watched three to four hours of horror trailers I compiled and a couple collections of short films as my wild cards. Use the wild cards for that Ted Bundy documentary on A&E you want to watch. We'll remove the restriction on repetition on them. As long as it is Horror related you can watch anything.

I would love to be able to include theatrically released documentaries. I think films like Faces of Death (since it makes an effort to actually be a documentary and not just a random collection of snuff footage) should have been included, since they appeal to the same morbidly prurient (there has got to be a single word for that that doesn't imply sex) interests as Horror movies. It's just that docs became a loophole that allowed in non-movies so we should close it. Non-feature films (such as docs, shorter films, other non-conforming items) can count as wild cards.

I love the Horror Yahtzee and think we should continue it. Perhaps it could be tweaked to make it more group oriented, for those who want the extra challenge. Maybe have a weekly challenge. There's four and a half weeks of October (and Halloween is on a Friday!! thanks to leap year.). Some ideas might be, each week you must watch specified films, or a specified subgenre or theme. Nothing too much, so it doesn't take over the lists. I'd let Chad or someone designated to be in charge of that, with suggestions fed to him in PMs, perhaps.

With Halloween on Friday, we might extend into a full day on Saturday to keep it rolling.

I can't say enough about how well Chad has organized these challenges. Again, thanks a lot.

edwardnortonfan

Something that I think would help is people should post a timeline for their movies. that way for people like me who crammed in 15 movies in one day sometimes, we'd be able to show how we did it so no one would question our lists. I know, I know, numbers aren't suppose3d to count but it's clear that they did count to some people, and posting a timeline, while it would take extra time, would demonstrate how we fit our movies in and would just remove any room for flaming about people lying about their lists. Maybe we could make a rule that if you watch more than X movies a day you need to post a timeline to show how you fit the movies in. Before you say it's silly, I had to do it a few times during this year's challenge...no flames against anyone, but it allowed me to show I wasn't just padding my list and I actually did have time top fit the movies in.

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi

One of The Omen and The Howling movies were tv movies. I'd like those to be included at least. It seems silly to take them out even though they run around 90 minutes.

The biggest issue is that some people get mad that others watch shorter horror movies and get a bigger list. What's the problem? They're still watching horror movies and this is a horror movie challenge and not a horror movie contest. The second you start getting mad or complaining about what someone is watching is the time you are turning it into a competition which it never was. It's fine to compete against someone but that isn't the point of this challenge.

If the rule is changed to, say 60 minutes, then some people will watch a lot of 60 minute movies and some won't which is what happened last time and nothing will change.

I'd be happy if everything stayed the same but we stopped counting documentaries and "making of ..." stuff

Wild cards are fine for Halloween episodes of tv shows.