Kill Bill: The Whole Bloody Affair

[lamphorn]

Originally Posted by tonyjg

I 'fail' to understand WHY the rating of NC-17 is see as an 'issue' for your cinema chains and media (TV / papers) ??

I know this topic has been covered / posted extensively in this forum - but - WHY ???

The NC-17 is a MPAA rating that is equilivant to the Australian R rating (Restricted to 18 and over) and the UK '18 (same as Australia in its restriction).

KILL BILL VOL1 was rated R here in Australia - which restricted its audience - and there was no issue with that in cinemas, the media or video / B&M stores. (KILL BILL VOL2 was rated MA (Mature Audience - under 15 must be accompanied by and parent or adult guardian).

Why is it that cinemas feel that they CAN'T show these films ?? Is it because they think that people wont come and see them ? Or is there still this association of NC-17 with 'sex scenes' ?? I wish someone over there had the 'balls' to get over this resistance - maybe even someone like Tarintino - and say 'this film is for an adults audience only - keep your kids under 18 home !!'

NC-17 isn't quite the R rating you mention. We have an R rating. NC-17 was developed for films that spill over past the American-style R rating and into more graphic territory, such as actual sex acts, but that aren't specifically designed to be pornography.

Yes, the MPAA created it to allow filmmakers to make more adult oriented films with artistic legitimacy that separates it from porn.. however, the theatres(with a few exceptions) won't play them because media outlets (TV and newspapers) will not advertise them. It isn't a government problem. It's a problem where the perception of the companies involved is that the American public is puritanical and will boycott or protest the companies involved, so they don't take the chance. Thus the few NC-17 films that are released in the U.S. play in a very few places to a very small audience.

If you're interested in more detail and backstory behind the NC-17 rating, Roger Ebert has a lot to say on the topic. I'm sure a search will turn more info up.

And to stay on-topic, I'm looking forward to this new release of Kill Bill. I never bought the first set because this was supposed to be coming. It's loooong overdue.

[Julie Walker]

About the editing the two volumes together. I think it would be interesting and better if the film was completely re-edited from scratch. Mix up the chronlogy and or trim down scenes that aren't really important.

Since if it's just the uncut V1 & 2 edited together with in my opinion minor editorial changes(an alternate camera angle,and the omission of the cliffhanger and intro to V2 isn't a huge change in my opinion). It won't be that amazing and become quite dull after the first two hours.

But if all the V2 footage is mixed up with the V1 footage,and some trimming for pacing is done. It could make for a kickass 4 hour epic.

[nodeerforamonth]

Originally Posted by lamphorn

NC-17 isn't quite the R rating you mention. We have an R rating. NC-17 was developed for films that spill over past the American-style R rating and into more graphic territory, such as actual sex acts, but that aren't specifically designed to be pornography.

Yeah, it's just a Politically Correct way of saying "rated X".

[MartinBlank]

Technically, this won't have a rating right? It would only receive an NC-17 if they went before the MPAA again right? Isn't that the whole deal with "Unrated" cuts of films when they hit dvd...I find it amusing when a PG-13 movie gets released as "Unrated", all things being equal, it's now, technically, and R-rated film.

[lamphorn]

Originally Posted by nodeerforamonth

Yeah, it's just a Politically Correct way of saying "rated X".

Rated X was once a respectable rating for films made for an adult audience, actually. But since the MPAA didn't trademark it, the porn business jumped on it and started calling their films "triple-X", then legitimate film distributors wouldn't get near any X-rated films...

So, NC-17 was a failed attempt to recapture that gray area that is too strong for an R rating, but is still a piece of art and not porn. Failed because the exhibition and the general public refused to see the difference.

[Josh-da-man]

Originally Posted by lamphorn

So, NC-17 was a failed attempt to recapture that gray area that is too strong for an R rating, but is still a piece of art and not porn. Failed because the exhibition and the general public refused to see the difference.

I don't think NC-17 has failed; rather I think it has accomplished its mission.

The MPAA knows full well that such a rating is the commercial kiss of death for a film. By having that rating, it allows them to play gatekeeper for content. By niggling over films ... forcing filmmakers to cut a second here, or two frames there, they keep ... they are able to keep more extreme content out of mainstream movies.

[Jeffy Pop]

Originally Posted by Julie Walker

About the editing the two volumes together. I think it would be interesting and better if the film was completely re-edited from scratch. Mix up the chronlogy and or trim down scenes that aren't really important.

Since if it's just the uncut V1 & 2 edited together with in my opinion minor editorial changes(an alternate camera angle,and the omission of the cliffhanger and intro to V2 isn't a huge change in my opinion). It won't be that amazing and become quite dull after the first two hours.

But if all the V2 footage is mixed up with the V1 footage,and some trimming for pacing is done. It could make for a kickass 4 hour epic.

I was thinking about this the other day. If I remember correctly, there was an edit of Godfather I & II back in the 80s that arranged all of the footage chronologically.

While I don't think it would be as good a movie, it might be interesting to see the same thing done with Kill Bill. It would be an different spin on a movie that most of us already know by heart.

[Numes]

Originally Posted by Jeffy Pop

While I don't think it would be as good a movie, it might be interesting to see the same thing done with Kill Bill. It would be an different spin on a movie that most of us already know by heart.

Some people don't know it by heart because they have only seen it once in the theaters because they've been waiting forever for the SE DVD (Hopefully High Def now) to come out!

[jdpatri]

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man

I don't think NC-17 has failed; rather I think it has accomplished its mission.

The MPAA knows full well that such a rating is the commercial kiss of death for a film. By having that rating, it allows them to play gatekeeper for content. By niggling over films ... forcing filmmakers to cut a second here, or two frames there, they keep ... they are able to keep more extreme content out of mainstream movies.

It succeeded for the MPAA in that it increased control over the studios, and therefore the movie making process. The economic concerns of the industry have nourished an environment that allows de facto censorship, and in that light, the NC-17 rating has failed at its intended purpose -- to promote artistic films that incorporate more adult themes. The NC-17 rating has been nothing but an impediment. That said, I suppose it all comes down to what you believe the original purpose to be... I tend to believe that it was implemented to encourage artistic freedom, but that the MPAA unleashed a Frankenstein monster they cared not to control.

Wait, what thread am I in?

Oh yeah, Kill Bill. Count me in as another silly person who saw it in the theater, loved the hell out of it, and hasn't seen it since because I've been waiting for the whole shebang.

[Giles]

Originally Posted by jdpatri

It succeeded for the MPAA in that it increased control over the studios, and therefore the movie making process. The economic concerns of the industry have nourished an environment that allows de facto censorship, and in that light, the NC-17 rating has failed at its intended purpose -- to promote artistic films that incorporate more adult themes. The NC-17 rating has been nothing but an impediment. That said, I suppose it all comes down to what you believe the original purpose to be... I tend to believe that it was implemented to encourage artistic freedom, but that the MPAA unleashed a Frankenstein monster they cared not to control.

Wait, what thread am I in?

Oh yeah, Kill Bill. Count me in as another silly person who saw it in the theater, loved the hell out of it, and hasn't seen it since because I've been waiting for the whole shebang.

I loved it too in the theatre but the uncut version when experienced while watching the Japanese DVD - was the icing of the cake though... the extra gore and kinetic energy was much more apparent.

Kill Bill 2 though.... uh, not impressive as the first one IMO.

[jdpatri]

Originally Posted by Giles

Kill Bill 2 though.... uh, not impressive as the first one IMO.

I agree! Sometimes I think I'm the only one, though. It's kind of like when I try to tell people that Police Academy 3 is the best of the series. People just won't listen to reason!

[big e]

I agree with you two. IMO Kill Bill 2 had too much fluff thrown in. I really hope that some of Kill Bill 2's scenes are trimmed down or removed (like the scene where Bud goes to that bar he works at. I thought that was a very unnecessary scene).

[GuruTwo]

About the editing the two volumes together. I think it would be interesting and better if the film was completely re-edited from scratch. Mix up the chronlogy and or trim down scenes that aren't really important.

Why?

QT already edited film and presented the structural chronology the way he wanted the first time around. Why change it? Just for the sake of changing it?

[scarredgod]

Originally Posted by Giles

Kill Bill 2 though.... uh, not impressive as the first one IMO.

exactly why im not interested in this version, i think pt 2 is terrible and dont want it anywhere near pt 1. so i will be sticking to my uncut japanese dvd of 1.

[Julie Walker]

Originally Posted by GuruTwo

Why?

QT already edited film and presented the structural chronology the way he wanted the first time around. Why change it? Just for the sake of changing it?

Well for one. V1 is full of energy and a lively stylish enjoyable film showing QT having fun with the material.

And V2 is a talky,lifeless chore with no energy or anything, save for the training sequence. That goes on for 2+ hours seemingly going nowhere.

So having the films together in the same order as they are now. Would = 2 hours of fun entertainment, and 2 1/2 hours of padded dull cinema.

So the best alternative would be to create a truly different epic alternate version of the film. Trims would need to be made though, with most of them being for the V2 footage. But by mixing up the order of scenes. It could still be a more entertaining film and not too dull. And it could make the film seem truly epic and hugely awe inspiring. Instead of tedious,dull and pretentious which is what V2 is.

Oliver Stone thankfully did some decent reworking with Alexander. So all three versions of the film are different than each other in some way. And he ended up improving the film pretty much with his final cut.


So considering the major problems with V2 of Kill Bill. Similar extensive reworking of the material is in order,to make a truly epic entertaining mind blowing film experiance. Since as it is,all the mind blowing cinema aspect is all used up in KB V1. So you need to balance the two styles out more evenly,than having all in one, but not the other. Since it just doesn't work watching both volumes together in one sitting as they're currently edited.

[MikeDeN2K]

Originally Posted by Julie Walker

Well for one. V1 is full of energy and a lively stylish enjoyable film showing QT having fun with the material.

And V2 is a talky,lifeless chore with no energy or anything, save for the training sequence. That goes on for 2+ hours seemingly going nowhere.

So having the films together in the same order as they are now. Would = 2 hours of fun entertainment, and 2 1/2 hours of padded dull cinema.

So the best alternative would be to create a truly different epic alternate version of the film. Trims would need to be made though, with most of them being for the V2 footage. But by mixing up the order of scenes. It could still be a more entertaining film and not too dull. And it could make the film seem truly epic and hugely awe inspiring. Instead of tedious,dull and pretentious which is what V2 is.

Oliver Stone thankfully did some decent reworking with Alexander. So all three versions of the film are different than each other in some way. And he ended up improving the film pretty much with his final cut.


So considering the major problems with V2 of Kill Bill. Similar extensive reworking of the material is in order,to make a truly epic entertaining mind blowing film experiance. Since as it is,all the mind blowing cinema aspect is all used up in KB V1. So you need to balance the two styles out more evenly,than having all in one, but not the other. Since it just doesn't work watching both volumes together in one sitting as they're currently edited.

But thankfully, since (shockingly!) your opinion isn't the only one that matters - the film will be re-cut the way Quentin wishes, which will ensure that both wonderful parts get fused together in a seamless way, but we don't miss anything of substance. A lot of people enjoyed Kill Bill Volume 2, and believe it or not, Quentin isn't cutting The Whole Bloody Affair together to appease people who hated the second film.

[rhcp1214]

[quote=MikeDeN2K]But thankfully, since (shockingly!) your opinion isn't the only one that matters QUOTE]

thankfully, neither is yours

[Julie Walker]

ty RHCP12214


And Mike,the point is. V1 has terrific pacing, despite not being entirely 'action packed'. There is plenty of talking and stuff going on. But the pacing works beautifully and does not drag at all.

Meanwhile V2 has no attention to pacing and drags on and on and on. This is the problem with QT with no real quality control. Like most artists,they fall so in love with their material. They can't force themselves to trim anything.

The 'hip' dialogue sounds painfully forced in V2 and that does ruin the mood. Since this bad dialogue trying to be hip and pretentiously 'cool' is so unnatural sounding and taking up too much time. That it is just a chore to sit through and serves no real importance to the plot of the film.

So plenty of bits could have used some trims to get the pace back on track instead of wallowing at a dead stop. Don't get me wrong, there are some great spectacular scenes in V2 with some cool camera work,music and stuff. But overall,they're buried underneath piles of pretentiously boring dialogue scenes that drag on to nowhere.

Of course the pretentious QT fans will find some uber deep meaning in V2. Since most of them I find hate V1,but love V2. And I feel maybe QT is having fun with the 'hip pretentious' types. By seeing what they'll 'read' into his dialogue no matter how pointless and excessive.

Since with V2 and Death Proof. QTs knack for dialogue has hit an all time low. And lost all the 'freshness' it once had,by seeming so forced and pointless(since attention to pacing and plot importance is out the window now). Kevin Smith has suffered a similar fate. But QT was a better filmmaker/writer than KS was,though even he is 'losing' it in my opinion.

Until a studio decides to put a him on a leash and keep him from indulging too much in pointless filler. I think QT will never make another fun amazing flick again. Since even Peter Jackson has 'lost it' with no one keeping him in check. And while he once paid attention to pacing,while still having fun. He's been allowed to be as excessive as he wants, which has hurt his films(in my opinion anyway).

[CertifiedTHX]

Amazon now has an entry for it:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000R7HY0A/

And along with that comes a hopeful feeling, like it's a confirmation that this is the real deal.

--THX

[zombeaner]

I have two copies of each movie, the US and Japanese editions and I don't understand not owning them because you are waiting for this set (which I will buy also). I've enjoyed them a number of times on their own at home and they are great fun. I bought them on release day and watched them each about 3 times that month at least.

[DealMan]

Count me in as another who...

Saw both films in theaters and have held off on buying the current DVDs in hopes of an Se....

and

Thinks part 1 was amazing and part 2 was meh...

In all honesty if both movies were released in seperate lavish SE's I'd only pick up part 1, but the "Whole Bloody Affair" is just too awesome not to buy.

[Josh H]

I've been holding off for an SE as well, and I'm one of the few who liked Part 2 better than Part 1...

[Numes]

Originally Posted by zombeaner

I have two copies of each movie, the US and Japanese editions and I don't understand not owning them because you are waiting for this set (which I will buy also). I've enjoyed them a number of times on their own at home and they are great fun. I bought them on release day and watched them each about 3 times that month at least.

I don't necessarily disagree. For me, there have been rumors about this release even before the original US and Japanese DVDs were released, so I figured if I just waited a month or two, I could get the SE release.

Obviously, that didn't happen, and it's been years now. For myself, I have so many unwatched DVDs, that it wasn't a big deal if I waited a little while longer (Although I really have been wanting to see it again). Just stubborn, I guess.

[Josh H]

Originally Posted by Numes

I don't necessarily disagree. For me, there have been rumors about this release even before the original US and Japanese DVDs were released, so I figured if I just waited a month or two, I could get the SE release.

Obviously, that didn't happen, and it's been years now. For myself, I have so many unwatched DVDs, that it wasn't a big deal if I waited a little while longer (Although I really have been wanting to see it again). Just stubborn, I guess.

Same here.

1. I didn't expect it to be so long.
2. I wasn't a huge fan of the movies and was a bit on the fence about whether I really needed to own them anyway. So that made waiting pretty easy as it's definitely not something I'd double dip on.

[TomOpus]

Many of us said this SE would take a long time to come out. We're talking QT here.

I was one of those who bought 'em on release day and have been enjoying them since. I'll admit I was a little disappointed with Vol 2 but it has really grown on me. I can't wait for "The Whole Bloody Affair".