Song of the South anytime ever? (merged)

[Which Button?]

The slavry and the plantations were a horrible thing that happened. And to release a movie where they were considered happy would be wrong. Its like people who say the Holocaust never happened you know who horrible and disrecpectful that is is to millions of people?

[brianluvdvd]

Originally posted by Which Button?
The way i understand it about Song of the South not being relesed is not because the blacks were slaves is because there was no set date to when the movie was supposed to take place either before the Cival War or after so the Blacks are basically shown as happy slaves and i think thats why they why they won't release IT. Because it would be wrong to show a movie that basically said blacks were happy slaves when there were horribler things done to them in that time.

Where in the movie is it portrayed that all the slaves are happy slaves? There is only one scene where you see a group of slaves and they are singing at nighttime. That doesn't make them happy.

Slavery doesn't really come into the plot at all. It's not like this Gone With The Wind.

[brianluvdvd]

Originally posted by Which Button?
The slavry and the plantations were a horrible thing that happened. And to release a movie where they were considered happy would be wrong.

Have you even seen Song Of The South?

[Which Button?]

No i never saw it. I really want to because i'm curious. I first heard about it a year ago and was so intrigued and interested why Disney would ban a movie and not want anyone to see it so i did research, read articles, read reviews and talked to people who saw it.

And thats the feeling i got about the film from he people i talked to and reviews. And by what they said i can see why its not released.

I really would like to see the film and i think it should be on DVD. But from what i heard i can see why they'd never release it.

[Which Button?]

So i apologize if i'm wrong i'm just going from word of mouth and reviews.

[ZackR]

They aren't slaves in the movie. They are working on a plantation after the Civil War, as many did because they had few other options. And yes, slavery was horrible, but the slaves were a remarkable group of people. They oftentimes made the best of their situation and they definitely sang together. That is where the old term "Negro spiritual" came from. They were an amazingly strong group of people. Even though they were in an atrocious situation, they could find reason to sing. It is a testament to their fortitude.

And if historical inaccuracies should keep a movie from public view, then my collection would get much smaller. No, it has nothing to do with history... The PC cops amongst us would just as soon erase certain history in order to avoid "offending" the ultra-sensitive. Man, I hate political correctness.

I have seen SotS many times. I owned a PAL VHS and now own an excellent LD transfer that has no subtitles and is the best quality I have seen yet. I would buy this tomorrow in an instant if Disney released it. And it is much better than "The Black Cauldron' It is much better. It may not be "Snow White" or anything like that, but it is excellent IMHO.

It is amazing what is hidden away and what is considered OK. I mean, I can go to Suncoast and buy films and music videos that many many people would find just utterly offensive and disgusting. Songs about killing cops, beating your wife, and using women as nothing more than sex objects is just fine... It is artists "expressing themselves." BUT BUT BUT.... a half century year old film that shows black and white children as friends, plantation blacks sing in a bad situation and Uncle Remus is shown as a role model....that is horrible and must be hidden from the unsuspecting public who could never handle such terrible things. Oh well. The stupidity and idiocy never ceases to amaze me. I still think this will be releases someday...perhaps when the PC cops are busy changing each other's diapers....

[mikewendt]

It would be great for this to get released, and it would probably make a ton of money. But the fact remains Disney won't budge on this title, much like they won't budge on the "Laying in the street" footage from The Program.

It caused waves and they don't want to cause waves. Just like they sold Dogma to Columbia/Tri Star.

They also have enough money that they can afford to shelve titles forever and not worry about.

[movielib]

You know, I just watched Jezebel (1938) for which Bette Davis won an Academy Award. It takes place before the Civil War in New Orleans so black people are still slaves. Guess what? The black people are depicted as apparently fairly happy and they are shown singing. The film, like Gone With the Wind and Song of the South are, at least partly, a product of the time they were made.

None of those three movies would be made quite the way they were made if they were made today. I think that's a good thing but these are still all good films in spite of their faults. Regarding their depiction of black people, I think Song of the South is the least offensive of the three.

There are many other examples but Disney gets more scrutiny than any other studio so we have this situation with SotS and not the others.

[ZackR]

Guess what? The black people are depicted as apparently fairly happy and they are shown singing.

Yes, and another thing... Slavery was an atrocious crime as I mentioned above. However, why should SotS be panned just because it dares to show the people being happy at times? I mean, just because a movie is about slaves or former slaves, does that mean they must be shown in complete despair and hopelessness?? NO!! Now, slavery should not be trivialized in any way, yet those brave people endured and managed to find their own happiness at times. Did slaves sing? You bet they did. I think it is insulting for people to say that they can not be depicted as singing or having any kind of joy. That would not make sense. Oh well. Political correctness has never made sense any way. It is simply an emotional over-reaction by hyper-sensitive people.

And yes, of the three films you mention, SotS is by far the least "offensive." But it is scrutinized because Disney is a "family" company. I guess PC parents think that if SotS is released, then the DVD will somehow magically fly from the store into their DVD players and force their kids to watch it!! I mean, God forbid we should as adults to actually be responsible parents and monitor their kids' TV viewing. Besides, I am sure most kids have watched MUCH worse than Song of the South.

Kinda like the guns thing in ET (though to his credit, Spieilberg gave us the original version, so he gets a big thumbs up from me!!) Let me see, the cops are chasing some kids who are with a friggin alien and are riding on a flying bicycle!!! You want to tell me that real-life cops wouldn't have their guns drawn?? But like I said, cheers to Spielberg for realizing that the original, unaltered film should be preserved. Now if only that attitude would rub off on others **COUGH**George Lucas**COUGH**Disney**COUGH**

[lordzeppelin]

I think the bottom line is that this is a children's film, and children don't see color - they see other kids. Kids aren't racist until their parents or the media makes them so. I saw someone tell their son he couldn't get a ecko t-shirt because it's "what the black kids wear" and I was blown away...not that I don't have my own racist moments myself (drive through the ghetto every day and see if there are ANY traffic laws...you'd be pissed too...but it's everyone - white black asian arab...just the "lower class structures"...anyways...). So how can this hurt to release this film? You don't see Triumph of the Will banned, do ya??

[lesterlong]

Disney should sell it to Criterion. Disney's like here's the deal: its yours and don't put our name anywhere on it ok.

[ZackR]

Disney should sell it to Criterion. Disney's like here's the deal: its yours and don't put our name anywhere on it ok.

That is a friggin' great idea. I mean, they could just license it to them for a year or so. After all, they licenses Armageddon to them.

I would love it if they did that. I don't care. They should just do something to release it...

[Which Button?]

I'm so confused now. I guess i'll have to wait if ever to see Song of The South and watch it myself.

Because Zack has made some good points, i just wanted to say again that i was just going by word of mouth and research i think Song of thed South should be released as much as anything.

But like someone said before the only reason why Song of the South is getting this much attention and why so much people want is because its not out. If it was out i woulden't be made as big of deal.

I wish i saw it in 88 when it came in theatres ii don't know why my parents didn't take me, they told me they had never heard of it until i brought it up. Oh well.

[ZackR]

It actually came out in 1986 and was a somewhat limited release.

But like someone said before the only reason why Song of the South is getting this much attention and why so much people want is because its not out. If it was out i woulden't be made as big of deal.

You are right about that. We make a big deal about it because it is not out there. Same goes for Star Wars...BUT, the only reason Song of the South is not out is that it has been deemed "inappropriate" by the PC Nazis. The PC cops think it is their job to be the thought police and that they need to protect our fragile little minds from things they think we shouldn't see.

Song of the South is a simple story. Basically, a boy with a disconnected/uninvolved father is taken down to relatives who run a large plantation. He is befriended by Uncle Remus, an elderly black gentleman who becomes a father figure to the young boy. Oh, how racist and horrible is that! A young white boy who looks up to an elderly black man!! How ridiculous are these PC morons?! I mean, there is nothing racist about that!

Spoiler:

In fact, when the young boy becomes sick, the one person he asks for is Uncle Remus!

Oh yah, I forgot. The blacks in the film aren't shown to always be wallowing in misery and are actually shown as being occassionally happy. Therefore, it is considered racist. Give me a break. [SARCASM]You know, this children's film should have definitely focused on the horrible nature of slavery itself and the sad socio-economic status blacks had to endure instead of portraying them as people who were strong enough to find happiness and peace in the midst of a terrible situation[/SARCASM] You know, I keep harping on this, but the blind stupidity and arrogance of the PC crowd really gets to me. They really are arrogant. I mean, who the $&(*_$ do they think they are trying to decide what is appropriate for me or anyone else to watch?!?! TV is full of shows and music videos that I think are over the top and unnecessary, but why should I stop someone else from seeing it? Why can the PC crowd not just deal with things they don't wish to see in the same way most people do... If you don't want to see it, don't watch it. How hard is that to comprehend? But no. It is not enough that they not watch it. They have to go out of their way and drop the dreaded "R" (racist) word and try to keep anyone else from seeing it. But I guess I do need a nanny like the wonderful PC gustapo protecting me from myself and all the horrible things I might watch. Oh well, since Song of the South is so dreadfully offensive, I guess I will go spend some quality time watching "artists" "express themselves" ....Off to go watch some MTV rappers talk about beating their "b*tches" and "hos"...but I guess that is OK....

[ZackR]

Here is an excerpt from SongoftheSouth.net that pretty much sums everything up.

In a world today where sex, drugs, and violence overwhelms and taints the silver screen, it angers me. But alas, that doesn't stop it from being shown. At least Song of the South made an attempt at showing harmony, something I rarely see in today's movies. And not only did it attempt at showing harmony within a family, but harmony between races as well; that was a big accomplishment for a film back in the 1940's when segregation was still very much a part of life. This is my plea, and I don't think I'm alone in this: please bring back Song of the South. I respect the views of those who object to this movie, but I don't think it's fair to prevent those who saw something a bit more positive in it from seeing it and preventing future generations from possibly benefitting in the same way. Imperfect or not, it's still a film, and a relatively harmless one at that.

You can read the full text here.

Zack

[Dr. DVD]

I agree with almost everything that's been said on this board in defense of Song of the South. My family has a PAL conversion and it is a great movie to watch with no hints of racism at all.

In fact:

Spoiler:

one of the films crucial moments has the sick white kid brought back by Uncle Remus telling him stories and holding his hand. It's very hard to see the image of a little white hand in that of an elderly black one and view it as racist.

[Rypro 525]

article from an older thread
NO DVD RELEASE?

From a January 2003 column at Jim Hill Media.

Given that Buena Vista Home Entertainment is really beginning to scrape the bottom of the barrel when it comes to the Disney film vault (Coming soon from BVHE to a retailer near you: The Don Knotts Collection. As if there are really people out there who are truly desperate to add the DVDs of Gus and The Apple Dumpling Gang Rides Again to their collection), I know that they'd really love to put a title like Song of the South out there in the marketplace. A movie that Disneyana fans and animation buffs have been begging for for years now. A title that would be sure to sell 10-12 million units easy.

But--that said--seriously wonder if Disney will ever dare to put Song of the South out on home video and DVD in Region 1 (i.e. the United States and Canada). I mean, if the former head of Disney Feature Animation Thomas Schumacher is to be believed, SOTS is now supposedly on permanent moratorium.

And what exactly is "permanent moratorium?" Is it the Disney-esque equivalent of Dean Wormer's infamous "Double Secret Probation?" Actually, what "permanent moratorium" supposedly means (in this case, anyway) is that the Walt Disney Company has no intentions to ever put Song of the South back into theatrical release here in the U.S. Nor does the corporation have any plans to release this live action / animated feature in the home video or DVD format here in North America.

Which is unfortunate. Not to mention hypocritical. After all, Disney's Song of the South has been readily available for purchase in the Orient for years now. (Why else do you think that all those video versions of Song of the South that sell on eBay have Japanese subtitles? That's because they're direct dubs off of the SOTS laser disc.)

Why exactly would Disney make Song of the South available for sale in Asia but not in North America? Basically BVHE's international arm believes that there aren't many African-Americans there who would complain about the film's portrayal of blacks.

Which is kind of a two faced policy, don't you think? That Disney pretends to care about the feelings of its black customers here in North America ... then abandons that pretense in the Orient.

But this sadly has become standard operating procedure with the modern Walt Disney Company: to give the impression that the company actually cares about something, rather than actually caring.

This actually reminds me of the last time that Walt Disney Studios put Song of the South out in theaters here in the U.S. That was back in 1986. Just two years after Michael Eisner took control of the Mouse House.

If the Walt Disney Company is really so concerned about the feelings of African Americans, then why did the studio put this allegedly offensive film back into theaters?

Well, actually there's kind of an interesting story associated with that particular re-release of Song of the South. You see, Tony Baxter and the Imagineers who were working on "Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah River Run" (a new flume ride that was being proposed for construction at Disneyland in the late 1980s) were leaning heavily on Eisner to allow them to use the characters and settings from Song of the South to help theme this attraction.

And Uncle Michael actually liked the idea of adding a flume ride to Disneyland. It's just that Disney's CEO was somewhat squeamish about the attraction's proposed subject matter. Eisner was worried that a ride that was built around Uncle Remus might unintentionally offend African-Americans. Which might result in Disneyland being picketed by the NAACP.

Still the Imagineers persisted, insisting that this proposed Disneyland flume ride wouldn't work unless they were allowed to build "Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah River Run"'s storyline around the Song of the South characters and settings.

This is why -- as sort of a litmus test for this attraction -- Eisner ordered that "Song of the South" be put into an extremely limited release in the Fall of 1986. If I'm remembering correctly, the film was only out in theaters for two weeks. Three weeks max. Before "SOTS" was quickly pulled and put back in the vault.

Given that no one wrote to the Walt Disney Company while Song of the South was playing in theaters here in the U.S. to complain about the film's portrayal of its black characters (and--more importantly--given that SOTS actually did pretty well at the box office during its limited re-release), Eisner finally gave the Imagineers the okay to use the movie's characters and settings in their proposed Disneyland flume attraction.

However, just to play it safe, Uncle Michael ordered that all references to Uncle Remus be removed from the ride; that's why the narrator in the queue area is clearly identified as Brer Frog. Eisner also asked that--to further distance this thrill ride from the somewhat controversial Song of the South--that WDI drop the name "Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah River Run" in favor of something a bit more generic. Which is how Disneyland's flume ride ended up being called "Splash Mountain."

Anyway... Rick, you asked me if Disney has any plans to release Song of the South on home video and DVD. Well, given this "permanent moratorium" nonsense, the Mouse is now insisting that this particular film will never ever see the light of day again... at least here in the United States.

Which is really interesting. Given that--as recently as three years ago--Buena Vista Home Entertainment was actively exploring ways they could release SOTS on home video and DVD here in the U.S.

Of course, in order to make this title palatable to the general public during these increasingly politically correct times, BVHE knew that it had to package this film just right. Which is why (for a time) Disney toyed with the idea of selling a version of Song of the South that would have been preceded by a showing of Walt Disney Feature Animation's new short, John Henry.

You see, Buena Vista Home Entertainment's idea was to persuade a prominent African-American like James Earl Jones, Morgan Freeman or Dr. Maya Angelou to serve as the MC on this DVD / home video. Someone who could introduce Song of the South, explaining the film's historical significance as well as re-enforcing the idea that SOTS was a product of a less enlightened time in Hollywood.

Then--once Song of the South finished being shown--the film's host would then introduce John Henry. Which (hopefully) would demonstrate the great strides that the Walt Disney Company had made in its depiction of and attitudes toward African-Americans.

It seemed like a pretty fool-proof scheme. Using the device of a prominent African-American narrator to help put Song of the South in proper perspective. A framework which would (hopefully) make SOTS more palatable (or--at the very least--less distasteful to) African American consumers.

The only problem was... Buena Vista Home Entertainment reportedly approached the wrong African American first. The way I keep hearing this story, the very first person that BVHE went to in their quest to recruit a narrator / host for their Song of the South / John Henry home video and DVD project was poet Maya Angelou. Angelou supposedly loved "John Henry" when WDFA screened the short for her, but was deeply offended by SOTS. The noted author then allegedly told the reps at Buena Vista Home Entertainment that--if they ever dared to put "Song of the South" up for sale in the United States--that she personally would take part in the protests.

That threat was reportedly enough for the Walt Disney Company to order Song of the South back into the vault... never to see the light of day again.

And that framing device that Buena Vista Home Entertainment dreamed up for its proposed Song of the South / John Henry combo release? That concept actually ended up being used on BVHE's American Legends release. That home video and DVD (which was released back in 2001) featured James Earl Jones as its host/narrator. In which the noted African American actor introduced John Henry, Johnny Appleseed, Paul Bunyan and Casey Jones, The Brave Engineer.

Still--as Buena Vista Home Entertainment struggles to find other older Disney film titles to put up for sale on home video and DVD--you have to wonder if the temptation to release Song of the South will eventually become too great. That--even with the outcry from African-Americans that is almost certain to accompany the re-release of this film--that this still could end up being a profitable venture for the Mouse. That-- f BVHE were eventually able to move 10-12 million units of SOTS--that all of the agita and anxiety associated with this movie's home video and DVD release would ultimately be worth it.

My advice, Ryan? Keep an eye on Buena Vista Home Entertainment. If this division of the Walt Disney Company's upcoming releases--Treasure Planet, Atlantis II: Milo's Return, and the colorized version of The Absent Minded Professor--don't exactly set the retail world on fire, BVHE execs may feel that they have no choice but to revisit the company's decision to put SOTS on permanent moratorium.

After all, this was the corporation that said that Disneyland's "Main Street Electric Parade" was "... glowing away forever." So--if that parade can come back to Anaheim--chances are pretty good that Song of the South won't actually be stuck in Disney's film vaults forever.

[FatTony]

I would like to see this film released but only for purely academic purposes. I have not seen it (that I know of), but I would like to see if it really is racist or if it could even be seen as racist. I find it hard to believe that almost everyone seems to agree that this film is 100% not racist, yet Disney refuses to release it for that very reason. I would really like to see some sort of commentary on this film by Eisner himself, and maybe some others who could provide some insight onto the racist tones of the film (I'm sure Spike Lee would have a thing or two to say about the film). I would also like to see some sort of commentary by people who would be able to intelligently defend the film (no offense to anyone on here, but several of you are blanket anti-PC, leading me to believe you have more than a biased opinion on the matter and probably not a whole lot of actual knowledge of the history involved in the film). Again, I find it hard to believe that "Zip-a-dee-doo-dah" is a Negro spiritual.

This film seems to have inadvertently become historically significant, and to basically deny its existence is pretty revisionist on Disney's part. If the film truly is racist, it's a sign of the times in which it was made. And to be honest, it's not like racism doesn't exist today. Perhaps Disney is just trying to be a little more responsible in today's political climate. I think that a forced introduction before the film from Eisner himself or maybe someone high up in the NAACP would be sufficient enough a disclaimer.

[Which Button?]

Well said Fat Tony. This is the first intellectual comment said on this whole thing.

I too have never seen the film and would reallyt like to see it and then i could see for myself.

Before i was going on what other people had told me and what i read, then i heard everones comments on here. And now still not sure where i stand.

[Onizuka]

Eisner thinks Black Americans are not mature enough to watch Song of the South. The film was recently broadcasted on UK television. As a Black person I find it insulting that Eisner thinks if I see Song of the South or an old-fashioned Black stereotype in Fantasia that I will try to start a riot in Disney world like a monkey.

The main problem Eisner has with the film is Uncle Remus is basically Uncle Tom. The film takes place after the civil war so there are no slaves in the film. Eisner is a big ass hole that wants to edit history to his liking. Eisner has also edited out smoking from several of Walt’s films. He did those edits without Roy Disney's permission.

I will not buy a region 1 release of Song of the South because I know Eisner will have some ass hole talking down to me during the intro of the movie. So I will wait for the Japanese DVD release

[JoeyOhhhh]

The thing is that now, unlike VHS and LD days, its much easier to import movies from outside the United States. And even Region encoding is not a problem with DVDs, so I doubt will see a release outside Region 1.

If they ever release it, it will probably be across the globe.

[Onizuka]

Originally posted by JoeyOhhhh
The thing is that now, unlike VHS and LD days, its much easier to import movies from outside the United States. And even Region encoding is not a problem with DVDs, so I doubt will see a release outside Region 1.

If they ever release it, it will probably be across the globe.

The film aired on UK television last month so I think it is safe to assume Eisner thinks only Black Americans shouldn't see it. I think we will see a UK DVD release of Song of the South soon. I highly doubt any idiot that would be offended by the movie has a multi region DVD player or knows where to buy import movies.

[Class316]

Originally posted by FatTony
II would really like to see some sort of commentary on this film by Eisner himself, and maybe some others who could provide some insight onto the racist tones of the film (I'm sure Spike Lee would have a thing or two to say about the film).

Eisner doing commentary?? NO THANK YOU!! I do not want this piece of filth running amuck in any DVDs I'm supposed to pay $$$ for!!!! Leonard Maltin is annoying enough but tolerable to a certain degree, but EISNER??????? HELL NO!!!!

but several of you are blanket anti-PC, leading me to believe you have more than a biased opinion on the matter and probably not a whole lot of actual knowledge of the history involved in the film). [/b]

anti-PC to the very end and proud of it

/me pets his DVD of "The Alamo", among others.

[ZackR]

FatTony,

You are right. I am unashamedly anti-PC. I hate it. I think it is absolutely absurd. I admit that no one can argue the racial undertones of the film. It was based on the stories of Joel Chandler Harris, whose own racial ideas are questionable to say the least. I am not trying to say that the film is perfectly innocent. No, "Zippa Dee Do Dah" is not a Negro spiritual. I just think that many people have a problem that the film shows former slave/servants being joyful at all. I think that is insulting to them and their legacy. I would welcome the film being released with commentaries (though not Eisner!) that tell intelligently and ACCURATELY the story behind the movie and all the controversy. That would be awesome. I would want them to be unbiased and accurate though. I just think that it is a bit ridiculous that SotS has so much controverrsy, when other films that show racial issues in the same light are OK...

[ZackR]

Perhaps Disney is just trying to be a little more responsible in today's political climate.

That's exactly what I am saying. The hyper-sensitive political climate sucks. There would be nothing "irresponsible" about releasing it. Are Matt and Trey "irresponsible" for releasing South Park? Are Eminem or Dr. Drey irresponsible? It is not up to some PC-police to decide what is "appropriate." Unfortunately, in today's climate, many groups like the Rainbow/PUSH like to cry racism over EVERYTHING and extort organizations into doing what they want.

Eisner thinks Black Americans are not mature enough to watch Song of the South. The film was recently broadcasted on UK television. As a Black person I find it insulting that Eisner thinks if I see Song of the South or an old-fashioned Black stereotype in Fantasia that I will try to start a riot in Disney world like a monkey.

You could not be more right about that. Except, I think it is not only directed at black people. The PC crowd thinks that Americans can not handle and should not see things that they think are offensive.

Anyways, I think it will be released eventually...probably in the way Tony says too, with commentaries. Oh, and there would have to be some forced thing you had to watch EVERY TIME you played the movie that not only explained the time and environment in which the film was made, but also a huge disclaimer like: Disney Exec: "Oh, we are so sorry for ever producing this horrible, dreadful thing. We are releasing it only for it's historical value. We hope that by releasing it we are not crushing anyone's fragile little universe. Please do not boycott is and call us the dreaded 'R' word." And then some Rainbow/PUSH guy would come on: "We think this film is offensive and horrible, and you should not be seeing it. We have deemed you to be too immature and unintelligent, but Disney has received a large demand for this film's release and they want to release it. So, they have agreed (thanks to our extortion-like threats) to donate 1/2 the money that they make to us...and well, money talks. So, umm, watch this film, and just remember how horrible it is and that we, your friendly neighborhood thought police highly recommend against it." Oh well. It will certainly be interesting to see how they handle it when/if it is released.