The Cheapening of DVD
11-06-03, 02:54 PM
#151
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Spiky
This is PRECISELY the issue. The worry is: choice will go away and the sh***y P&S will rule because nobody cares.
This is PRECISELY the issue. The worry is: choice will go away and the sh***y P&S will rule because nobody cares.
Originally posted by Spiky
Just like it did for 2 decades. I never found it worthwhile to purchase many VHS movies. I have a few, but in almost 3 years of having DVD, I have probably 2-3 times as many DVDs already. Whydidn't I buy VHS? Because they are 4:3 (regardless of OAR), they wear out almost instantly, and they looked like crap from day one due to low technological standards.
I don't want to go back to having no choice. It is obvious when releases are for those of us who care. LOTR:EE is a great example, there is NO 4:3 version of this. Why? Because there shouldn't be. If I was the director, there wouldn't have been a 4:3 DVD release at all.
Just like it did for 2 decades. I never found it worthwhile to purchase many VHS movies. I have a few, but in almost 3 years of having DVD, I have probably 2-3 times as many DVDs already. Whydidn't I buy VHS? Because they are 4:3 (regardless of OAR), they wear out almost instantly, and they looked like crap from day one due to low technological standards.
I don't want to go back to having no choice. It is obvious when releases are for those of us who care. LOTR:EE is a great example, there is NO 4:3 version of this. Why? Because there shouldn't be. If I was the director, there wouldn't have been a 4:3 DVD release at all.
Originally posted by Spiky
And I might add....if anybody wants the 4:3 version of a movie, get it on VHS, why bother with DVD in the first place just to get a hacked, crap version of a movie? At that point, why would you care about the pic quality when it has already been altered?
And I might add....if anybody wants the 4:3 version of a movie, get it on VHS, why bother with DVD in the first place just to get a hacked, crap version of a movie? At that point, why would you care about the pic quality when it has already been altered?
11-06-03, 03:32 PM
#152
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 6,830
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Cheapening of DVD
Originally posted by Deke Rivers
you're cracking me up there Spiky...how long you been around?
Companies will always cater to the masses (ie JP6) thats where the bucks are . If you think the small minority of movie lovers are a major concern to thses companies you are very disillusioned. how long do you think DVD would have lasted if sales of players didnt climb in the last few years?
Are you old enough to remember beta vs vhs vs laserdisc? the movie lovers embraced laserdisc. Which format did the major companies embrace? VHS
you're cracking me up there Spiky...how long you been around?
Companies will always cater to the masses (ie JP6) thats where the bucks are . If you think the small minority of movie lovers are a major concern to thses companies you are very disillusioned. how long do you think DVD would have lasted if sales of players didnt climb in the last few years?
Are you old enough to remember beta vs vhs vs laserdisc? the movie lovers embraced laserdisc. Which format did the major companies embrace? VHS
VHS is a good example to prove MY points, thanks. The above is exactly my fear. I wasn't "around" in the Beta/VHS fight as I was a little young at the time and it didn't take place in my household, but it has certainly affected me. There really is no way to say it other than VHS SUCKS. I've purchased more LDs and DVDs than I ever did VHS.
kmac,
What? You say 100% wrong, then restate my points back to me as a correction? You guys are both fighting for me, great! Choice is good, yes. We have choice now. My point is, I fear choice going away. As it did with VHS vs Beta and other things.
Paranoid? I guess it does sound that way. Maybe I've been coming across too strong. I tend towards realistic and cynical in my viewpoints. And I feel my viewpoint is realistic as to what direction the movie industry is taking.
I said
The worry is: choice will go away and the sh***y P&S will rule because nobody cares.
Oh, and I do spend money ONLY on OAR.
I stand by my original statements. JP6 drives the industry
11-06-03, 03:40 PM
#153
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 6,830
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by kmac
Who are you to tell someone whether they should buy VHS or DVD? FF or WS? Here again is an example of someone thinking that the DVD format was made especially for them.
Who are you to tell someone whether they should buy VHS or DVD? FF or WS? Here again is an example of someone thinking that the DVD format was made especially for them.
They DON'T CARE, I DO. Yes, it was made because people like me (probably us, if you are honest) wanted better quality than VHS, the defacto standard. Do you honestly think the everyday Joe, who thinks Best Buy sells the best electronics, wanted something better than VHS? Or knew it was coming before the "neato" ads showed up on TV? Or would be buying it now if it was priced like LD? DVD is an upgrade for the LD lovers and movie lovers. That's where it came from. That's for/because of me, not "them".
And, for the record, I said
if anybody wants the 4:3 version of a movie, get it on VHS
11-06-03, 03:42 PM
#154
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: wishing I was in Vegas
Posts: 6,646
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don’t believe for one second that J6P is going to spoil DVD for the rest of us. Far from it, I believe the appeal of the format to the masses has allowed a whole buncha titles to find space on my shelves that would never been considered otherwise.
Further, there are quite a few shows being broadcast in WS these days, in spite of J6Ps whines.
And, most importantly, the hardware industry is supplying more and more 16:9 equipment. Just as you cannot find a B&W TV these days, there will come a day when 4:3 will be just as obsolete. The elitist fear that they will someday be deprived of OAR holds about as much water as racists rationalizations for ethnic purity, paraphrasings of Hitler notwithstanding.
For a second there, I thought you had developed a sense of humor
Further, there are quite a few shows being broadcast in WS these days, in spite of J6Ps whines.
And, most importantly, the hardware industry is supplying more and more 16:9 equipment. Just as you cannot find a B&W TV these days, there will come a day when 4:3 will be just as obsolete. The elitist fear that they will someday be deprived of OAR holds about as much water as racists rationalizations for ethnic purity, paraphrasings of Hitler notwithstanding.
Originally posted by Spiky
Dude, I thought that made me an elitist. You must make up your mind.
Dude, I thought that made me an elitist. You must make up your mind.
For a second there, I thought you had developed a sense of humor
11-06-03, 03:46 PM
#155
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I disagree that J6P completely drives the industry.
Go to Best Buy or any electronics store on release day and you will see almost everyone buying WS. I went to Best Buy yesterday and they were sold out of their WS Indy sets.
Also, I think there are too many people like us who control the DVD industry. They love DVDs also! Even the director's of movies have say now.
I know that Peter Jackson, Tarantino and Bryan Singer are big fans of DVD and would not settle for anything less!
J6Ps (i still dont like this name) are slowly being converted as WS TV prices are coming down (and the older generations are dieing off). Like VHS is now, FF will one day be the minority and eventually extinct.
Most of the people that I know (around my age and younger) are buying WS movies and televisions.
Go to Best Buy or any electronics store on release day and you will see almost everyone buying WS. I went to Best Buy yesterday and they were sold out of their WS Indy sets.
Also, I think there are too many people like us who control the DVD industry. They love DVDs also! Even the director's of movies have say now.
I know that Peter Jackson, Tarantino and Bryan Singer are big fans of DVD and would not settle for anything less!
J6Ps (i still dont like this name) are slowly being converted as WS TV prices are coming down (and the older generations are dieing off). Like VHS is now, FF will one day be the minority and eventually extinct.
Most of the people that I know (around my age and younger) are buying WS movies and televisions.
11-06-03, 03:47 PM
#156
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: wishing I was in Vegas
Posts: 6,646
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Spiky
And, for the record, I said I didn't say "they should buy this because they are J6P".
And, for the record, I said I didn't say "they should buy this because they are J6P".
11-06-03, 03:58 PM
#157
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Spiky
kmac,
They DON'T CARE, I DO. Yes, it was made because people like me (probably us, if you are honest) wanted better quality than VHS, the defacto standard. Do you honestly think the everyday Joe, who thinks Best Buy sells the best electronics, wanted something better than VHS? Or knew it was coming before the "neato" ads showed up on TV? Or would be buying it now if it was priced like LD? DVD is an upgrade for the LD lovers and movie lovers. That's where it came from. That's for/because of me, not "them".
And, for the record, I said I didn't say "they should buy this because they are J6P".
kmac,
They DON'T CARE, I DO. Yes, it was made because people like me (probably us, if you are honest) wanted better quality than VHS, the defacto standard. Do you honestly think the everyday Joe, who thinks Best Buy sells the best electronics, wanted something better than VHS? Or knew it was coming before the "neato" ads showed up on TV? Or would be buying it now if it was priced like LD? DVD is an upgrade for the LD lovers and movie lovers. That's where it came from. That's for/because of me, not "them".
And, for the record, I said I didn't say "they should buy this because they are J6P".
I think the DVD format has attracted people to the format and THAT has caused the success. Not, previous LD buyers (they were the pioneers, but there were not many of them). DVD would not have survived or flourished if it had not been picked up by the majority.
I am one of those people who DVD sucked in (never bought a LD in my life). I bought a DVD player in 1998 and a WS TV in 2000. Most of my friends have done the same.
Was DVD made any less for us than those loyal LD buyers? Absolutely not.
I am excited about where DVD is going and I am not worried that studios will take away our OAR movies.
11-06-03, 04:05 PM
#158
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 6,830
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's another difference. I call LD a success, too. Don't know why people don't see that. Lasted over 20 years, eventually developed tech as good as DVD in most respects, CREATED videophiles when there COULDN'T have been any with the VHS-only world so many lived in, and (the kicker) created the desire in consumers/companies/studios/directors for an even better format.
But anyway, you are talking about why so many DVDs are sold. I was discussing why it EXISTS. Different topics.
But anyway, you are talking about why so many DVDs are sold. I was discussing why it EXISTS. Different topics.
11-06-03, 04:12 PM
#159
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
I haven't read every post in this thread so if this was previously mentioned, I'm sorry.
the thing that really bothers me about the whole DVD becoming as popular as it is, is the fact that the early adopters have pretty much been disregarded since J6P has jumped on the "this is cool" bandwagon.
if it wasn't for us the format would have never reached the heights that it has today.
and to top it all off, the public just isn't informed. my dad has a 57"widescreen tv but still buys FF movies because he wants the whole picture. now all he does is complain about the bars on the left/right side of the pic.
I know I could have the set stretch the image but I will not do it. I have told him since the beginning to purchase WS because when he gets the new tv he will be upset. did he listen, NO. now he can suffer with the bars.
the thing that really bothers me about the whole DVD becoming as popular as it is, is the fact that the early adopters have pretty much been disregarded since J6P has jumped on the "this is cool" bandwagon.
if it wasn't for us the format would have never reached the heights that it has today.
and to top it all off, the public just isn't informed. my dad has a 57"widescreen tv but still buys FF movies because he wants the whole picture. now all he does is complain about the bars on the left/right side of the pic.
I know I could have the set stretch the image but I will not do it. I have told him since the beginning to purchase WS because when he gets the new tv he will be upset. did he listen, NO. now he can suffer with the bars.
11-06-03, 04:14 PM
#160
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 6,830
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Wizdar
[B]I don’t believe for one second that J6P is going to spoil DVD for the rest of us. Far from it, I believe the appeal of the format to the masses has allowed a whole buncha titles to find space on my shelves that would never been considered otherwise.
Further, there are quite a few shows being broadcast in WS these days, in spite of J6Ps whines.
And, most importantly, the hardware industry is supplying more and more 16:9 equipment. Just as you cannot find a B&W TV these days, there will come a day when 4:3 will be just as obsolete. The elitist fear that they will someday be deprived of OAR holds about as much water as racists rationalizations for ethnic purity, paraphrasings of Hitler notwithstanding.
[B]I don’t believe for one second that J6P is going to spoil DVD for the rest of us. Far from it, I believe the appeal of the format to the masses has allowed a whole buncha titles to find space on my shelves that would never been considered otherwise.
Further, there are quite a few shows being broadcast in WS these days, in spite of J6Ps whines.
And, most importantly, the hardware industry is supplying more and more 16:9 equipment. Just as you cannot find a B&W TV these days, there will come a day when 4:3 will be just as obsolete. The elitist fear that they will someday be deprived of OAR holds about as much water as racists rationalizations for ethnic purity, paraphrasings of Hitler notwithstanding.
Oh, you did NOT just challenge me, did you?
Can you say black and white TV?
11-06-03, 05:05 PM
#162
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: wishing I was in Vegas
Posts: 6,646
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Spiky
Oh, you did NOT just challenge me, did you? Can you say black and white TV?
Oh, you did NOT just challenge me, did you?
Can you say black and white TV?
Touché, mon ami. 
En ripost, I’ll posit that, to a cinephile, that’s not a TV.
No, I think it is you who are confused. FS/WS TVs and FF/OAR DVDs are in the same omelet. This is not the chicken/egg question. WS TVs are being driven by OAR discs. The DVD industry is supplying FF alternatives for virtually all new releases because there is a HUGE market for them. However, many (most?) classic titles are not offered with this alternative. [No facts to support this; shall we just take this as a given and move on?] Almost all TV sets currently sitting in consumers’ homes are 4:3, yes? So, this type of marketing just makes $ense.
BUT! The hardware industry would like to replace every single one of those TVs, and 16:9 is the only way to accomplish that goal. So, the hardware and software (if you will) industries must work hand in hand.
Eventually [and this is where it gets GOOD] the J6Ps are gonna buy them fancy WS TVs ‘cause they look kewl. At which point [wait for it!] they’re gonna realize that all their WWF titles are in the wrong aspect ratio and they’re gonna have to double dip!!
THEN all the
And what a GLORIOUS day that will be. Dontcha think?
11-06-03, 09:53 PM
#163
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Anywhere but here ..
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jough, maybe you'd better think of changing this thread's title into:
1. 'J6P' vs. 'Cinephile': The Preferences
2. 'J6P' vs. 'Cinephile': The Definitions
3. 'J6P' vs. 'Cinephile': Fullscreen vs. Widescreen (then we can refer to this thread for additional comments)
1. 'J6P' vs. 'Cinephile': The Preferences
2. 'J6P' vs. 'Cinephile': The Definitions
3. 'J6P' vs. 'Cinephile': Fullscreen vs. Widescreen (then we can refer to this thread for additional comments)
11-06-03, 11:09 PM
#165
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally posted by Wizdar
Inspired by the thread you recommended:
J6P vs. Cinephile: Ignorance vs. Bliss
Inspired by the thread you recommended:
J6P vs. Cinephile: Ignorance vs. Bliss
11-07-03, 02:21 AM
#168
Suspended
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: You have moved into a dark place. It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Posts: 4,533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This thread is currently tearing through the city and terrorizing Japanese people.
RAMPAGE!
RAMPAGE!
11-07-03, 09:03 AM
#170
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 6,830
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually, Wiz, (referring to the WWF stuff) they'll just use stretch mode and probably never notice the difference.
And don't forget the blockbuster movies are usually 2.35:1, that is STILL a letterbox issue on a WS TV. It's not going away. Just imagine if I have J6P (say, my wife) over and show a European film in 1.66:1, oh the carnage, the horror, the humanity!! Bars on the side, or the top, aaahhhh, can't stand it. (and I didn't even say "subtitles")
That quote is worthy of me actually setting up:
And don't forget the blockbuster movies are usually 2.35:1, that is STILL a letterbox issue on a WS TV. It's not going away. Just imagine if I have J6P (say, my wife
) over and show a European film in 1.66:1, oh the carnage, the horror, the humanity!! Bars on the side, or the top, aaahhhh, can't stand it. (and I didn't even say "subtitles")That quote is worthy of me actually setting up:
11-07-03, 09:30 AM
#171
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by ChrisHicks
I haven't read every post in this thread so if this was previously mentioned, I'm sorry.
the thing that really bothers me about the whole DVD becoming as popular as it is, is the fact that the early adopters have pretty much been disregarded since J6P has jumped on the "this is cool" bandwagon.
if it wasn't for us the format would have never reached the heights that it has today.
and to top it all off, the public just isn't informed. my dad has a 57"widescreen tv but still buys FF movies because he wants the whole picture. now all he does is complain about the bars on the left/right side of the pic.
I know I could have the set stretch the image but I will not do it. I have told him since the beginning to purchase WS because when he gets the new tv he will be upset. did he listen, NO. now he can suffer with the bars.
I haven't read every post in this thread so if this was previously mentioned, I'm sorry.
the thing that really bothers me about the whole DVD becoming as popular as it is, is the fact that the early adopters have pretty much been disregarded since J6P has jumped on the "this is cool" bandwagon.
if it wasn't for us the format would have never reached the heights that it has today.
and to top it all off, the public just isn't informed. my dad has a 57"widescreen tv but still buys FF movies because he wants the whole picture. now all he does is complain about the bars on the left/right side of the pic.
I know I could have the set stretch the image but I will not do it. I have told him since the beginning to purchase WS because when he gets the new tv he will be upset. did he listen, NO. now he can suffer with the bars.
Does someone have the sales numbers for WS and FS DVDs?
11-07-03, 11:45 AM
#172
DVD Talk Hero
Does someone have the sales numbers for WS and FS DVDs
he got his info from videobuisness.com
Originally posted by WillG of Home Theater Forum
Hulk WS debuts at number 1 while the P&S only makes number 16
Matrix Reloaded WS makes 2 while the P&S only makes 17
Charlie's Angels WS makes number 3 while the P&S has fallen off the top 20
Indiana Jones WS is at number 4 while P&S is at 18
Scarface WS still remains in the top 10 while the P&S has fallen off the top 20
The Italian Job is at 9 while the P&S is gone from the top 20
2 Fast 2 Furious WS is at 14 while the P&S is gone from the top 20
The Two Towers WS remains in the top 20 while the P&S in gone
I noticed that the 1st Matrix is at 12 on the charts. Interesting how a film that has been on DVD for a couple of years and has already sold like a Billion copies (it did have the top sales record at one point) is beating the P&S version of Matrix Reloaded. Not too shabby
Hulk WS debuts at number 1 while the P&S only makes number 16
Matrix Reloaded WS makes 2 while the P&S only makes 17
Charlie's Angels WS makes number 3 while the P&S has fallen off the top 20
Indiana Jones WS is at number 4 while P&S is at 18
Scarface WS still remains in the top 10 while the P&S has fallen off the top 20
The Italian Job is at 9 while the P&S is gone from the top 20
2 Fast 2 Furious WS is at 14 while the P&S is gone from the top 20
The Two Towers WS remains in the top 20 while the P&S in gone
I noticed that the 1st Matrix is at 12 on the charts. Interesting how a film that has been on DVD for a couple of years and has already sold like a Billion copies (it did have the top sales record at one point) is beating the P&S version of Matrix Reloaded. Not too shabby
11-07-03, 11:59 AM
#173
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Rypro 525
Does someone have the sales numbers for WS and FS DVDs
he got his info from videobuisness.com
Does someone have the sales numbers for WS and FS DVDs
he got his info from videobuisness.com
11-07-03, 01:29 PM
#174
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 315
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Because nobody asked for it, here are my takes on these earth-shattering "issues"...
1) Full Screen/Pan & Scan/"Standard" Ratio Transfers - The film's OAR, whatever that may be, is always preferable. However, I am willing to buy a film P&S IF that's the only version available and if I really love the film. I'm not happy about it, but I'll do it. Luckily, I've only had to do that on a couple of occasions. (I tend to prefer older films, which weren't widescreen in the first place.)
2) No insert. -- Frankly, I find this whole insert fixation asinine. I really like R2 discs, which come in transparent keep cases and have images (or text) printed on both sides of the sleeve.
3) Keepcase vs. Digipack/Snapper Cases -- Keepcases are definitely preferable, for the ease-of-replacement factor. But digipacks seem to be fairly durable. Snappers are horrible.
4) Forced Trailers -- Reprehensible. I am boycotting THE HULK and ANIMAL HOUSE DVDs over this issue. I can't imagine anything more irritating than having to sit through the same bunch of commercials everytime I pop in a DVD.
5) Double-Dipping -- Also a slimey practice, but I support it when the company is offering a significant upgrade of a previous disc. (Such as the recent 2-disc CASABLANCA SE). Carried to its extreme, however, this can become irksome in the extreme. Consider, for instance, Anchor Bay's endless repackaging of HALLOWEEN and the EVIL DEAD films. Triple and quadruple-dipping!
6) Non-Anamorphic Transfers for Widescreen Ratios -- This is really not much of an issue any more. Replacing a non-anamorphic widescreen transfer, however, is a good excuse for a double-dip.
7) Promotional Special Features -- Doesn't bother me much. I don't feel compelled to watch every single bonus on every single disc. If the supplements are boring, I just skip 'em. Who cares? The transfer's the thing.
8) DVD-ROM/Web Content en lieu of DVD-Video Content -- Couldn't care less either way, personally.
1) Full Screen/Pan & Scan/"Standard" Ratio Transfers - The film's OAR, whatever that may be, is always preferable. However, I am willing to buy a film P&S IF that's the only version available and if I really love the film. I'm not happy about it, but I'll do it. Luckily, I've only had to do that on a couple of occasions. (I tend to prefer older films, which weren't widescreen in the first place.)
2) No insert. -- Frankly, I find this whole insert fixation asinine. I really like R2 discs, which come in transparent keep cases and have images (or text) printed on both sides of the sleeve.
3) Keepcase vs. Digipack/Snapper Cases -- Keepcases are definitely preferable, for the ease-of-replacement factor. But digipacks seem to be fairly durable. Snappers are horrible.
4) Forced Trailers -- Reprehensible. I am boycotting THE HULK and ANIMAL HOUSE DVDs over this issue. I can't imagine anything more irritating than having to sit through the same bunch of commercials everytime I pop in a DVD.
5) Double-Dipping -- Also a slimey practice, but I support it when the company is offering a significant upgrade of a previous disc. (Such as the recent 2-disc CASABLANCA SE). Carried to its extreme, however, this can become irksome in the extreme. Consider, for instance, Anchor Bay's endless repackaging of HALLOWEEN and the EVIL DEAD films. Triple and quadruple-dipping!
6) Non-Anamorphic Transfers for Widescreen Ratios -- This is really not much of an issue any more. Replacing a non-anamorphic widescreen transfer, however, is a good excuse for a double-dip.
7) Promotional Special Features -- Doesn't bother me much. I don't feel compelled to watch every single bonus on every single disc. If the supplements are boring, I just skip 'em. Who cares? The transfer's the thing.
8) DVD-ROM/Web Content en lieu of DVD-Video Content -- Couldn't care less either way, personally.
