Bacon

neither is your threadcrap

I'll beleive this rumor when I see an official announcement, maybe it's actually true, who knows

bboisvert

"Taking it up the ass"?

There is ZERO overlap between the sets. Two completely different versions of the film, two completely different sets of extras. Everyone is told months and months in advance of the plan.

How is this a bad thing in any way, shape, or form?

If I'm a casual fan, I buy the first set and be done with it. If I'm a big fan, I buy the 2nd set and be done with it.

If I'm a HUGE fan, I buy both and have what amounts to a 6-disc set for the film. And probably only spend about $35 or so total.


I personally can't picture a more perfect DVD release process than they are using for LotR. What would your solution be?

Ian11

I can't believe there are still people who are bitter about NewLine/PJ releasing the theatrical and EE versions of the film. Even for most people who do not get info like this on the internet (or even care to find out) has had enough warning to know that TTT and ROTK will be release in two versions. I can't imagine anyone in their shoes doing a better way of doing it. And NewLine/PJ have been more forthcoming about their highly lurcrative franchise than anyone else IMO. I believe them when they say the theatrcial version and the EE (Director's version IMO) are it. Sure they might "repackage" it and come out with differen't versions but so does Houghton Mifflin when they publish paperback, trade paperback, and hardcover editions of LOTR. It'd be like book geeks crying foul when publishers put fancy new covers or new editions of them.

Some of you guys are real babies. Don't buy it. Or be happy with what you got or hold out until a " super special edition" comes out. Or sell and upgrade. Figure it out cause I can't help ya.


Star Wars is different. Lucas has gone back and revised his original work and won't let the present generation preserve what we saw in '77, '80, and '83 for posterity. I still have the VHS versions but they are going to deteriorate in time. The fact that it could easily be done is what bothers me. Whether the DVD versions have lots of documentaries or special features is a minor issue compared to seeing Star Wars as it was originally presented. Its ultimately George Lucas' work and he can do whatever he wants with it. But I'm still hoping the loyal fans and their input still counts for something and can influence him. Just like the time Lucas changed the title of "Revenge of the Jedi" to "Return of the Jedi".

DouglasRobert

So according to Lucas, the Original versions of the Star Wars Trilogy no longer exist.

The only way I could think of is if he totally changed all original prints when he made the Special Editions, and now all prints only include the Special Edition versions.

If that is true, then he has completely turned his back on the versions that made him what he is today. It was the Original versions that made him rich and the owner of ILM, THX and any other off shoots, not the Special Editions!

Has Lucas turned to the "Dark Side"?
Or is he pulling our leg?

Aphex Twin

Well...an anagram of George Lucas is: A CREEL GOG US

EVER THINK OF THAT??!

Aphex Twin

Another anagram of George Lucas is: A CRUEL EGG SO

chanster

I am not bitter about the double dipping of LOTR, the issue is some folks here say its not double dipping when they announce beforehand 2 versions. If you are going to doubledip, then the New Line way is the way to go. Announce both versions ahead of time and let people make a decision.

Now Sony and Columbia are the biggest pieces of turd when it comes to double dipping. Special Edition, Collectors Edition, SuperBit, SuperBit Deluxe,

Aphex Twin

One more: A ECO EGG SLUR

Aphex Twin

Also, A CEO SLUGGER

Aphex Twin

A CURSE EGG LO

El-Kabong

Completly different? Ah, so the directors cut would be the musical version with a CG Humphry Bogart doing the dance number with Boogaloo Shrimp? The version with the flying cars and giant transforming robots?

Oh - what, more scenes of hobbits walking? Yeah - that's a whole new movie.

One set with seemless branching or the cut footage included as an extra. Really, both sets could have been combined into one package without much difficulty - but they opted for milking the fans as much as they could.

bboisvert

I didn't say a new movie, I said a different VERSION. Which it is. There's over 40 minutes of new footage inserted into the film.

I'm not sure I'm following your point about CGI Bogarts... unless you are going out of your way to make it seem like I said something wrong or unclear. Which I didn't.

Which would have potentially made the only edition available a 4- or 5-disc set. Is that realistic? What would you consider to be an acceptable MSRP for such a set? What about casual fans who don't want all the extras?

As for 'milking'... again, most people are able to find the first set for about $15 and the second for about $20 without much effort. And, once again, have the CHOICE to get just one or the other if they wish. Seems like a win-win.

metfan

Doesn't the E.T. set have both versions of the movie on one DVD? It's not as if it branches or anthing, am I right?

I don't see why Lucas can't do the same w/the original trilogy. OK, so it wasn't your vision, George, but it doesn't mean we didn't love it or that it doesn't exist!

I'm sure that people from the Flash Gordon era would want to see the old serials the way they were made, and NOT see a newer version of it just because the technology is there. Folks who saw the Original Trilogy remember and love it for what it was. And we certainly didn't fault the FX; to the contrary, it was revolutionary and set the standard. It will always be remembered as that.

I've been lucky to have two sets of the Original Trilogy on Laserdisc (and talk aboutdouble-dipping; hey're have been many releases of the movie on Laserdisc): the re-done ones in THX (with the large stormtrooper's head on ANH, Dath Vader's head on TESB, and Yoda's big head on ROTJ), and then the boxed set of the Special Edition. (Too bad they'r enot anamorphic).

If the movie's worth it, I'll by more than one version (yes, I have both LOTR:FOTR, and have LOTR:TTT and have the EE on pre-order). The movies are differnet for both LOTR & SW, so as a movie fan, it's always good to look at both.

El-Kabong

4 discs? Why not. They did something like that with Brazil, with the Real Version on one disc, and the Other Version on disc 2 with the extras on the remainder. Seems pretty simple to me.

I mean if Pearl Harbor could get all that running time into one package, then surely New Line could do it here.

So if it's cheap enough, you dont mind double dipping? Ah, thats a good and positive message to send to the studios.

The other thing people are throwing about is that "They should know that two editions are planned." completly forgetting that we are an amazingly small demographic of well informed consumers. The average man on the street does not spend nearly the amount of time we do researching movies. The BEST he'll get is the "Coming Soon" board at blockbuster. In short, this is hardly someone who will know that the second disc is on it's way.

We're the excption, not the rule.

RoboDad

Why not? Here's why not.

There are people who have no desire to own or watch the extended cut of the film, and there are other people who have no desire to own or watch the theatrical cut on DVD. Why should these people be forced to spend extra cash for something they don't want or need, just to be able to get what they do want? A single mega-set that included all of the extras from both existing sets, and both cuts of the film, would probably have an MSRP of $50 or more. The overwhelming majority of people simply wouldn't buy it.

It is interesting that you mention Brazil as your example of how to do it right, when the 3-disc version of Brazil WAS A DOUBLE-DIP!

Still, I get the feeling that all of these fairly obvious points are not going to sway you, since I think you already understand them, but you're just looking for a fight. Why, I'm not sure.

El-Kabong

Which gets back to the other way you could do the set I suggested: put the cutting room floor scenes in the extras portion of the disc (and go with the branching option). There is simply no need for two cuts of the same movie.

Yeah, but the non-criterion version came out well after the 3 disc set did.

Ian11

The set would still be more expensive than most DVD consumers would want to spend. There are a lot of people who either prefer the theatrical version or have no interest in seeing the EE. There would be greater resentment if they thought they had to pay for something they did not want; more scenes and long documentaries. And the Brazil Criterion Edition is a very expensive set. NewLine kept the price of the superb EE (voted best DVD package of the year by almost everyone) very reasonable and they even added a TTT ticket which I did use for an evening show ($9.00 value)

And I don't consider them "cutting room floor scenes". I believe the EE is the way PJ really wants them but he was either contractually obligated to limit the movie under 3 hours or understood the realities of releasing a movie over 3 hours in today's multiplexes. And so there was a "need" for two cuts of the same movie. One for Non-Tolkien fans and one for Tolkien fans. Branching scenes would cheapen the experience for us Tolkien fans.


I think the success of LOTR is what fuels a lot of resentment whether its the DVD package or the changes from the book.

milo bloom

You know, when I was buying the FOTR theatrical cut a while back, I noticed while in line that the back of the case noted the upcoming Extended Edition. "Great," I thought, "only the most pig head, stubborn mules will have a problem with the two editions now."

Sigh.

You know, this is only a hobby. This isn't like say, the medical industry intentionally releasing a weaker version of a drug, then coming out several months later with the better version that they had all along. That's punishable by roshambo. DVDs? This is nothing.

Jackskeleton

When you have folks crying bloody hell because their dvd had no insert, what could you expect from them when a double dip happens?

ZackR

The original versions DO exist. At the time of the SE's theatrical release, it was said that they had to go back and completely clean up the original negatives. Did they then destroy them? No way. They used them to create the SE's. Anyways, I am sure they exist. Now, whether Lucas will release them or not, I don't know. But...Spielberg ended up giving us the theatrical version of E.T. along with his "final vision." I think there is hope that the ORIGINAL original trilogy will be released. I am not holding my breath, but you never know. I would be absolutely thrilled to see them released next year though.

Rogue588

so wait...

Lucas put double dipping hobbits from Brazil in the original Star Wars movie..?

LUCAS...you BASTARD!!!!!!!

El-Kabong

Personaly, I hated Rings so I couldnt care less how many versions of it come out 1, 3 , 400 - I'm not getting any of them, so it doesnt matter to me.

However - we seem to have veered wildly off topic.

I think that the marketing model for Rings blows, and the user shouldnt get the shaft as many times as they are for the complete package.

dvdbase

I fail to see how that makes the Rings marketing model a bad thing. If J6P doesn't want to be a smart consumer, there's only one person he can blame. I research everything I buy. Twice. And then I still hem and haw on how I want to spend my hard earned money.

In a time where double dipping is normal and frequent, it amazes me that some one would have a problem with NL/PJ's marketing strategy. How can 'having a choice' be a bad thing?

Ian11

Fine you don't care for LOTR the movies but you still end with a swipe at their "marketing model" so that's what we're talking about; not the movie itself.

You previously put up Brazil as an example. But with that movie I either have to decide between a bare bones substandard transfer or a mega-box set priced at $50-$60. Silence of the Lambs had a bare bones, Criterion, and a Special Edition. Fargo also had 3 incarnations. So has Leon (The Professional). So has Lawrence of Arabia. And countless others of the same movie. With The Godfather movies the studios pretty much force fans to buy all 3. Same with Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, and quite possibly Star Wars Episodes 4-6. These are the "marketing models" that deserve more scrutiny from us.

NewLine and PJ is offering two very different versions of his films and packed both with more extras than avg. It isn't even a clear case of double dipping because its not the same exact movie with cooler packaging. Some analogies: One is an abridged version and the other is the unadridged and complete "text". One is the radio friendly version and one is the album version of a song. And something we all understand, one is the full screen version and the other is the "widescreen" version. Like others have said NewLine/PJ is giving consumers a choice.

Perhaps they could have made awareness even more transparent so it would satisfy YOU but I find little for consumers to gripe about. The LOTR DVD's have been highly praised by critics and consumers alike for delivering DVD packages that are setting industry standards. Consumers are getting their "money's worth" whichever version they get.

Terrell

You are exactly right. The fact remains New Line and Peter Jackson put out no fewer than 3 seperated releases in a span of 4 months. 5 sets total for both films. Yet they get praised. Can you imagine what the people that are defending this would say if Lucas had done the same thing? They'd scream bloody murder.

That's one thing a lot of people complain about when there is a re-release. They put new material on the re-release to get people to spend the money again. You can defend it all you want. The fact is they put out a 2-disc set that with mediocre extras and loaded up the 4-disc set with a ton of great extras. Gee, I wonder why? To get you to spend your money twice. At least Lucas waited years before re-releasing new sets. I think anyone with a shred of fairness can say that Lucas so far has gone about releasing DVDs of the prequels the right way.

At the end of the day, releasing 3 different sets in the span of 4 months, is down right idiotic and is nothing more than an attempt to milk the hell out of fan's wallets. They may be great DVD sets, that still doesn't change the facts.

It is and you good and damn well know it. 3 seperate releases in 4 months is double-dipping like crazy.

BS! The P&S release was seperate from the widescreen 2 and 4 disc sets. I love how when Peter Jackson puts out a P&S version, he's just giving us a choice. Yet when a P&S version of Episode I gets released, Lucas gets called a name. Talk about warped thinking.

So have the Star Wars DVDs, and Lucas gave us better extras than the LOTR 2-disc sets have. Plus, he didn't put out 3 releases within a span of 4 months.

In the end, how about a little frickin' fairness is all. 3 releases in 4 months is idiotic, I don't care how good they are.