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Old 07-13-03, 10:21 PM   #1
Brent L
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How can people sell bootlegs of films at the flea market?

Well, and get away with it I mean. I went to the beach on Thursday and I came home today. On my way home, I stopped at the flea markets at the beach and a few on the way home. At every single one of them there were guys selling bootleg copies of films that were still in the theater and also other obvious bootlegs. At one of the markets, every single vendor except for one had bootlegs, and ONLY bootlegs.

They were $10 each, and were on DVD or VHS, whichever you prefer.

My question is simple. Just how in the world are they able to get away with this? Is it just a matter of no law enforcement officials knowing that they are there? Do they do something to get around this, or what is the deal?

If you are wondering, no I did not purchase any of them. I never have, and never would. Not only do I find it basicly totally "wrong", I just do not want some bootleg copy of something like that. Besides everything else, it just wouldn't feel right.

I just don't see how so many are able to get away with this in the broad daylight in public. It just blew me away today and these past few days seeing this activity.
 
Old 07-13-03, 10:25 PM   #2
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Check out Ebay lately? Walk around Manhattan a bit. Lol.
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Old 07-13-03, 10:30 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eric F
Check out Ebay lately? Walk around Manhattan a bit. Lol.
Yes, I understand this, but how/why is it so widespread? I don't understand how so many can do this is the open like they do.

I mean, with all of the talk about the MP3's and the such and all the action that is being done against them and seeing how most of that is online, I don't see why more isn't being done about the bootleg films which you can find just about anywhere.

Why doesn't law enforcement do more about it instead of just standing by? Call me crazy, but I thought bootleg films, selling them, was highly illegal.
 
Old 07-13-03, 10:31 PM   #4
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Flea markets are the sort of thing that cops overlook or let go because it is to much paper work for to little of a crime. Not to mention it's really something along the lines of the copyright holder having to get involved in order for the authorities to get really involved.

Also, it is not a for sure thing that these vendors will be their the following week and there is a simple sort of fly by night situation with them since they are they can easily move on to the next one easy.

Welcome to the world my friend. Bootlegging isn't something that is only ebay. Before that it was of course on the streets of any decent size downtown area of a city not limited to films, but also toys (You ever hear of those hong kong knock offs?) It's the under belly of the industry. I guess since I have been exposed to it for so long through conventions and other methods of getting ahold of this sort of thing I'm sort of decensitized to it all. DVD and lower prices of recording methods and quicker methods have advanced this process to the point were you can get a film on bootleg sometimes before it even hits the theaters. folks download them, burn them and sell them.

No way to get around this other then just laying under the radar. Like I said, unless the copyright holder makes it a point to crack down on this through these the cops really don't do much unless they really want to, and again, it's to much of a hassel to prosecute someone for something little.

In a way, they would rather go for the distributors who gave these folks the copies. why get the little fish when you can get the bigger fishes who distribute in the thousands daily the copies. These folks at the flea markets are not the ones making the copies in the majority of the cases, they are simply middle men who are happy to handle these since they are hot items.
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Old 07-13-03, 10:34 PM   #5
Brent L
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jackskeleton
Flea markets are the sort of thing that cops overlook or let go because it is to much paper work for to little of a crime. Not to mention it's really something along the lines of the copyright holder having to get involved in order for the authorities to get really involved.

Also, it is not a for sure thing that these vendors will be their the following week and there is a simple sort of fly by night situation with them since they are they can easily move on to the next one easy.

Welcome to the world my friend. Bootlegging isn't something that is only ebay. Before that it was of course on the streets of any decent size downtown area of a city not limited to films, but also toys (You ever hear of those hong kong knock offs?) It's the under belly of the industry. I guess since I have been exposed to it for so long through conventions and other methods of getting ahold of this sort of thing I'm sort of decensitized to it all. DVD and lower prices of recording methods and quicker methods have advanced this process to the point were you can get a film on bootleg sometimes before it even hits the theaters. folks download them, burn them and sell them.

No way to get around this other then just laying under the radar. Like I said, unless the copyright holder makes it a point to crack down on this through these the cops really don't do much unless they really want to, and again, it's to much of a hassel to prosecute someone for something little.

In a way, they would rather go for the distributors who gave these folks the copies. why get the little fish when you can get the bigger fishes who distribute in the thousands daily the copies. These folks at the flea markets are not the ones making the copies in the majority of the cases, they are simply middle men who are happy to handle these since they are hot items.
A great reply, thank you.

Still, why are people so much more against MP3 trading online than against bootleg films just about anywhere in public.

Blah, it makes no sense to me. I just wanted to get this out there.
 
Old 07-13-03, 10:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrentLumkin
Yes, I understand this, but how/why is it so widespread? I don't understand how so many can do this is the open like they do.

I mean, with all of the talk about the MP3's and the such and all the action that is being done against them and seeing how most of that is online, I don't see why more isn't being done about the bootleg films which you can find just about anywhere.

Why doesn't law enforcement do more about it instead of just standing by? Call me crazy, but I thought bootleg films, selling them, was highly illegal.
Because if you didn't notice, they didn't start the witch hunting till it became more widespread. It is indeed highly illegal and has always been illegal.. but they are going to be fighting a new war on drugs if they decided to go after everyone selling and not over look those in order to find the source of it all by getting the folks higher above them who are distributing the copies to them.

MP3's became such a spot light item because the RIAA decided to make it a very serious topic when the MPAA really only goes after the serious of the serious offenders. those guys at the flea markets are not even close to the top of the tree of where that bootleg came from.

Want to know the tree of it? Let me try to come up with a sort of fast explaination..


Hong kong/over sea's dealers copy the film where copyright laws are usually not upheld or even acknowledged then they get shipped over to the next tree head in the thousands. those folks spread the bootleg to others who distribute the copies to other folks and so on and so on a few times. it all is part of suppy and demand. it's not the best to waste time on the small fries like I said. either way, Pirating has been around for the longest time and with technology moving as it is, I doubt it will slow down anytime soon. Hell just a few moments ago I saw a download for LXG and Pirates has already been pirated and uploaded to the net. Now of course, you can't expect the quality to be that great, but if someone is willing to pay 10 bucks for a copy that cost around 2 bucks to make (if you're not making them in bulk that is, otherwise i'm sure those over sea's folks can make them for less then a buck in masses) then it's simple to see that the flood of them at flea markets and other places like that where by the time it's reported the vender is already out the door without any obligations for coming back if they don't feel like rolling the dice of chance again.
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Old 07-13-03, 10:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrentLumkin
A great reply, thank you.

Still, why are people so much more against MP3 trading online than against bootleg films just about anywhere in public.

Blah, it makes no sense to me. I just wanted to get this out there.
Because the RIAA and the MPAA are two different buisnesses. MPAA has always had bootlegs as something to fight, but only going for the big fishes. the RIAA went after P2P's first such as napster but now are focusing on the distributors because they realize once they shut down one P2P network, another goes up.

also, MPAA realizes that the quality of bootlegs are not yet to the level were it can harm business. RIAA realizes that you can download a high quality MP3 which just about sounds like CD quality in a matter of moments. The day you can download a high quality film in a matter of moments instead of hours.. you will see the MPAA try to do something about it. the major part of it is potential loss of $$. MPAA doesn't think it will lose much yet.. RIAA realizes it can lose a lot and is trying to do something about it.

Cops don't cruse down Flea markets simply because if you really have been to a true flea market.. the paper work on EVERYTHING illegal would be to long that it would be best just to shut down the place.
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Old 07-14-03, 12:31 AM   #8
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there used to be bootlegs galore at record conventions here in pittsburgh, bootleg music like live concerts on cassette, CD and VHS but the show got busted with all the vendors merchandise being confiscated. it pretty much dried up after that, i guess word gets out and vendors dont make the trips from other states to sell their stuff. but that is music.

now at other shows like the Pittsburgh Comicon or the Monster Bash there are bootleg movies galore, on VHS and DVD. there is one guy that appears legit with his region 2 titles but then you look thru his stuff and he has House Of 1000 Corpses (uncut) and the Criterion Salo amongst others. it just seems like its not a big deal about movies at this point of time. but if a show gets busted, that might change.
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Old 07-14-03, 01:01 AM   #9
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In Manhattan tickets are 10 dollars a pop.

An average family of 4 would spend upwards to $35-40 dollars just to a see said movie once.

Buying the bootleg ($5-10) and a few bags of microwave popcorn and bottles of soda ($1-3) become a more economical solution. If they wanted to watch it again, the movie would pay itself off even more.

No one is forcing anyone to pay 10 dollars for a movie or a bootleg but noone is stopping me either.
 
Old 07-14-03, 01:29 AM   #10
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There was a guy in a wheel chair selling them here at mine for awhile. He could still be there but I stopped going. What was funny was his prices. He was charging 20-30 dollars for bootlegged movies. And what was funnier was the sign above them. These dvds will only play on certain brand dvd players such as apex. And this old lady asked why wont this wont on my general electric and all the guy said was these were really rare movies he gets from a very close freind in hong kong.

I used to sell at the flea market and you would be surprised some of the weird **** sold there. I just sold video games. It was something to do with a freind on boring sat, sundays.

O and for the reason they dont regulate this stuff. This is what I think. Because you have to pay to sell at the flea market. So basically that means if you sell copies there you wouldnt be the only one getting in trouble. So would the owner of the flea market and that can be a sloppy mess. And hurt the 100 or so people who sell at them each weekend.
 
Old 07-14-03, 08:39 AM   #11
Brent L
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Quote:
Originally posted by puddytay
O and for the reason they dont regulate this stuff. This is what I think. Because you have to pay to sell at the flea market. So basically that means if you sell copies there you wouldnt be the only one getting in trouble. So would the owner of the flea market and that can be a sloppy mess. And hurt the 100 or so people who sell at them each weekend.
The Jockey Lot near where I live (I go there all the time, it's just that I almost never see bootlegs there) they have had busts every so offten on fake jewelry and other such things. Those people went to jail or got in trouble, and they never touched those that own the Jockey Lot.
 
Old 07-14-03, 09:51 AM   #12
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Re: How can people sell bootlegs of films at the flea market?

Quote:
Originally posted by BrentLumkin
Just how in the world are they able to get away with this? Is it just a matter of no law enforcement officials knowing that they are there?

I just don't see how so many are able to get away with this in the broad daylight in public.

There was a time when I once reported a bootleg seller that was hawking current theatrical releases. That was over a year ago. I still see him (not far from Macy's) several times a week. The only difference now is that I have seen uniformed city cops buying from him.
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Old 07-14-03, 11:00 AM   #13
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Way to go Danol!

Half the people that go to stamp shows, or record shows, or computer shows, or flea markets have no idea what they are buying. If they were, they would be the ones selling .

As for bootlegs. The end doesn't justify the means. Police have a hard enough time with murders, rapes, and robberies. Someone selling a copy of the Hulk in rural Kansas probably won't create enough of an alarm to cause the authorities to go after them.
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Old 07-14-03, 11:04 AM   #14
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Danol, what the hell are you talking about?
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Old 07-14-03, 11:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jackskeleton
Danol, what the hell are you talking about?
He sold some coins to some people for more than they were worth, and bought some for a considerable amount less than they were worth .
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Old 07-14-03, 11:20 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Danol, what the hell are you talking about?
Yeah, that post needs a translation.
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Old 07-14-03, 11:35 AM   #17
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The last major comic convention held in Novi, MI had TONS of bootleg DVDS - ranging from Two Towers to Star Wars SEs. I mean everything was totally open. They were even playing these movies on displays with the copies spread out on the table. They were typically being sold for $20.00 each.
 
Old 07-14-03, 11:49 AM   #18
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Simple answer: people don't care. The INDUSTRY cares, yes, but almost everyone else doesn't. I'm sure that there are plenty of police officers, lawyers and judges that have a few bootleg movies or concerts sitting on their shelves, and most of them will ignore the problem unless forced to follow it.

And, for BrentLumkin, there are plenty of bootlegs at the Jockey Lot-- CDs, VHS, and DVD. Almost any spot that sells CDs has bootlegs-- if the spot has multiple copies of the same CD selling for half of the retail price, they are almost always bootlegs. And then there are all of the spots selling VHS tapes with two or three copied rental movies per tape. Not to mention conterfeit name-brand clothing.

I buy DVDs there all the time (the Anderson, SC, Jockey Lot he was mentioning). These DVDs ARE the "real thing", official, sealed, security tagged DVDs, but people sell them for $10.00, $12.00, $14.00 each for NEW RELEASE disks, a week or two after they hit the shelves. I don't know where or how these people get the DVDs, but I question there being a LEGAL way for them to get new releases and sell them at that price and make a profit.

Last edited by Darren Garrison; 07-14-03 at 11:59 AM.
 
Old 07-14-03, 11:54 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by DavidH
The last major comic convention held in Novi, MI had TONS of bootleg DVDS - ranging from Two Towers to Star Wars SEs. I mean everything was totally open. They were even playing these movies on displays with the copies spread out on the table. They were typically being sold for $20.00 each.
I was at that convention as well and it tripped me out to see vendors selling X2 and Matrix Reloaded for $20. I just kept thinking the legit DVD probably won't cost that much and you'll get extras to boot.

While it is a problem, in the grand scheme of things, bootlegs just aren't high on the law enforcement priority list. If Hollywood starts really bitching about loosing money because of bootlegs, then you might see some action (a la the recording industry and downloads).
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Old 07-14-03, 12:00 PM   #20
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Basicly if the sellers keep themselves "small-time" enough they'll get away with it.
 
Old 07-14-03, 12:43 PM   #21
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I've seen several vendors here in the Tucson Flea market selling bootleg CDs, but not movies. All the movies are legit and priced the same as Darren Garrison posted.

The people bootlegging CDs at first were very open about it. I remember one vendor having 3 tables set up, with a computer set up on each table. 3 vendors manned the computers. Each table had a big binder with all the titles available. People would pick which albums they wanted, and the vendors would burn it for them right there. They would charge $6 per disk! They also made the covers, but these looked to be pre-printed. Don't know if there was an extra charge for those.

Other sellers there had audio cd-r recorders, and yet others had recorded them at home, and brought them over to sell. Some went as far shrink wrapping them. It was incredible.

Anyways, I tried to do my part to at least stop some of it, since my Aunt & Uncle asked if I knew anyone. See, they sell legit CDs & Tapes there. They own their own shop in town as well. So, I made a few phone calls to someone I know in NY who works for one of the big labels. He asked me for some info which I returned to him via email. I'm figuring he did something because I was told by my uncle that the police made a sweep of the flea market telling people they had to stop and or be fined in the next hour. So they all left. That was about a year ago. Now, they are back, but they are more discreet about it. Some selling from the trunk of their cars..etc. Looks like the owner is looking the other way, even though she was called by the authorities.

To take care of this problem is a full time job. Like many people have said here, the authorities have bigger fish to fry. This would require more calls to several people to get things done. I'm just one guy, and I hardly go to the flea market,...and it's not my job. Now, if someone wanted to pay me to do this, well...that would be another story. :-)

Anyways, that's my story. Think I'll go out again soon and take some pics for you all using my cell phone. Don't want to look too obvious on what I'm doing. ;-)
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Old 07-14-03, 12:55 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darren Garrison
And, for BrentLumkin, there are plenty of bootlegs at the Jockey Lot-- CDs, VHS, and DVD. Almost any spot that sells CDs has bootlegs-- if the spot has multiple copies of the same CD selling for half of the retail price, they are almost always bootlegs. And then there are all of the spots selling VHS tapes with two or three copied rental movies per tape. Not to mention conterfeit name-brand clothing.

I buy DVDs there all the time (the Anderson, SC, Jockey Lot he was mentioning). These DVDs ARE the "real thing", official, sealed, security tagged DVDs, but people sell them for $10.00, $12.00, $14.00 each for NEW RELEASE disks, a week or two after they hit the shelves. I don't know where or how these people get the DVDs, but I question there being a LEGAL way for them to get new releases and sell them at that price and make a profit.
If you have AIM, it'd be cool to talk to you since you are near where I live and we're both familier with the place. Just let me know.

I know a few of those people that sell DVDs, and they say that they buy them in bulk and then price them cheap. Others buy them from wholesale, but where, I do not know.
 
Old 07-14-03, 01:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brain Stew
He sold some coins to some people for more than they were worth, and bought some for a considerable amount less than they were worth .

Oh ok, now that you say that, it makes perfect sense why it was posted in a thread about flea markets and pirating.. Oh no.. wait, it still doesn't since coins are not illegal to sell at flea markets.


Quote:
The last major comic convention held in Novi, MI had TONS of bootleg DVDS - ranging from Two Towers to Star Wars SEs. I mean everything was totally open. They were even playing these movies on displays with the copies spread out on the table. They were typically being sold for $20.00 each.
Yeah, comic conventions are really known for that. It's all part of the supply and deman. Folks want the stuff they can't get (Song of the south, tapes full of a series, star wars material). Comic conventions are just like this and again, for the price of 10 bucks to get in most of them.. not many cops will be lining up to get in, not to mention the venders pay the convention orginizers the fee for the tables. the orginizers want to attract more folks to come in to pay the cover charge so they turn the blind eye on this sort of thing unless, again, the copyright holders start coming down on the heads above.


Quote:
Anyways, I tried to do my part to at least stop some of it, since my Aunt & Uncle asked if I knew anyone. See, they sell legit CDs & Tapes there. They own their own shop in town as well. So, I made a few phone calls to someone I know in NY who works for one of the big labels. He asked me for some info which I returned to him via email. I'm figuring he did something because I was told by my uncle that the police made a sweep of the flea market telling people they had to stop and or be fined in the next hour. So they all left. That was about a year ago. Now, they are back, but they are more discreet about it. Some selling from the trunk of their cars..etc. Looks like the owner is looking the other way, even though she was called by the authorities.
Yeah, usually it's just a warning to the folks who put the show together and they cool down a bit only to have it come back a few weeks later or the following month. these are small time folks who jump from show to show so the warnings really aren't anything to be concerned about.
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Old 07-14-03, 01:25 PM   #24
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WOW!!! I must be on another plant. I frequent a couple of Flea Markets on the outskirts of western Mpls, MN and have yet to see any bootlegging of any kind. Now occassionally I'll see some old guy have a Movie on a blank tape thrown in with all of his legit VHS tapes but never do I see what you guys are talking about. I guess our flea markets have a higher standard....J/K. Strange though to see that big of a difference between areas of the US. In fact I picked up some DVDs this weekend. My best find was the Sleepaway Camp Boxset for $7. What a steal.....

"bootleg music like live concerts on cassette"
Now I did see that about 5 years ago. Is that truelly illegal though? It's not like you can buy that concert footage from the artist.

I'd be curious to see what other people around the US have to say.
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Old 07-14-03, 01:32 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by C_Fletch
My best find was the Sleepaway Camp Boxset for $7. What a steal.....
Wow! That's a great price. Wish there was a way for us to network to find titles for each other using flea markets. This would obviously have to be a fast turn around rate, since titles don't last long on the table. Oh well. Someday.

There was a guy who used to sell sealed DVDs here at $10 a pop. I used to go there early and spend $100 each friday on his DVDs (originals mind you). I remember getting the double disk "Die Hard" from him. All 3 of them when it came out. Hell, I got a ton of stuff for him. He doesn't sell there anymore. I think he moved, but not sure. This guy had some good items there. How I miss those days.
 
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