Criterion Film Club Week One: Empire of Passion

[gglass4269]

This week's film was chosen by MTRodaba2468


Let the discussion begin

[chris_sc77]

I saw this for the first time back in April I think. I love it. Just such a great compulsively watchable film. I think Oshima is great and its sad he didnt make more films.
So yeah. Just a visually stunning film and one of my favorite Criterion titles in years.

[gglass4269]

I agree. It truly is a wonderful film. The photography is so amazingly beautiful, that it reminded my very much of a Terrance Malick film; especially the scene where the two lovers are getting beat by the police.

[riotinmyskull]

just finished watching it and i enjoyed it quite a bit. i like how it started off a little noirish/hitchcockian and then went into a straight up creepy ghost story. all the shots at the well were amazing and criterion certainly chose the perfect image for the cover. i haven't checked out the extras but i probably will before the weeks over. overall i give it a 7/10.

i have a feeling this club is going to do some damage to my wallet. its only the first week and i've already added a title to my wishlist.

[gglass4269]

The extras wern't great, but they were really informitive. Don't let the 20 minute audio only feature pass you by. It really made me understand Oshima's approach to the fillm, as well as having a greater understanding for him as a director.

[gryffinmaster]

What's great about Empire of Passion is the way that it addresses similar ideas and themes as its sister film In the Realm of the Senses in a tamer fashion, while being a strong Japanese ghost story on its own. Though Senses is the more widely-known because of its censorship issues, the tamer, "accessible" Passion is a much more satisfying piece of work.

[Zizoujuve]

Originally Posted by gglass4269

I agree. It truly is a wonderful film. The photography is so amazingly beautiful, that it reminded my very much of a Terrance Malick film; especially the scene where the two lovers are getting beat by the police.

I agree, Oshima really knows how to use colors to make a visual masterpiece. I actually enjoyed this much more than In The Realm, thought it was one of the better Criterion releases of this year. My introduction to Oshima and now I can't wait for more.

Still working my way through the extra's again.

I'd give the movie an 8/10, overall Criterion disc a 7/10. Kinda light on extras but what can you do.

[chris_sc77]

Originally Posted by gryffinmaster

What's great about Empire of Passion is the way that it addresses similar ideas and themes as its sister film In the Realm of the Senses in a tamer fashion, while being a strong Japanese ghost story on its own. Though Senses is the more widely-known because of its censorship issues, the tamer, "accessible" Passion is a much more satisfying piece of work.

Exactly. I watched In The Realm of the Senses a week before and I liked it but Empire was much more satisfying and the scope and impact I felt were much larger.

[Maxflier]

I love me some Japanese movies and this one was one of the best I have seen so far. As gglass said, the photography was indeed quite beautiful and I thought the PQ was very good on this particular title.
Now I have to go buy In the Realm of the Senses...

[Kerborus]

Watched it and loved it. The scenes at the well were incredible and the part where they are actually in the well gave me the creeps. There are many levels to the film and the ghost story was done very well. Why do old Japanese ghost stories creep me out so much?

PS - Can we talk about this without spoiler tags? I would have been more specific, but wasn't sure.

[Trevor]

Yep, no spoiler tags needed.

More from me later, hate typing on my phone. But loved the film.

[MTRodaba2468]

Time to offer my take.

Originally Posted by gryffinmaster

What's great about Empire of Passion is the way that it addresses similar ideas and themes as its sister film In the Realm of the Senses in a tamer fashion, while being a strong Japanese ghost story on its own. Though Senses is the more widely-known because of its censorship issues, the tamer, "accessible" Passion is a much more satisfying piece of work.

I may be mistaken here, but I'd hesitate to link Senses and Empire as sister films solely due to their themes.

Spoiler:

While they both focus on doomed relationships (doomed in Senses due to sexual obsession that leads to extreme acts, and doomed in Empire based on guilt), Senses is trying to make more of a political statement, where as Empire tries to also be a genre film (in this case, a ghost story).

I think they tend to be linked more-so due to the production agreement Oshima made with Anatole Dauman (Oshima would direct three films that would feature hardcore sexual content to generate controversy; he declined to include any in Empire, and the third film in the agreement was never produced as a result).

I do agree, though, that Empire was a more satisfying work. While not a bad film, I felt that Senses's political message got somewhat obscured, and it was harder to relate to the characters on an emotional level. I thought Empire worked more on an emotional level, and also worked as a ghost story as well.

I also must say that I'm disappointed that Criterion chose only to release Senses as a Blu-Ray, since the photography in this film is wonderful. I understand that Senses is the more well-known film, but this film would have benefitted just as much, if not more-so, from a Blu release (that's not to discount the DVD transfer; it looked excellent).

Overall, I'm glad I chose this. I was watching a copy I had Netflixed, and midway through, I paused the movie for a couple minutes so I could place an order online to buy my own copy.

[Trevor]

So we don't need spoilers for Empire, but let's not say too much about Realm, as I imagine many haven't seen it yet.

[riotinmyskull]

can we make sure in each thread we mention who picked each week's film?

[MTRodaba2468]

Originally Posted by Trevor

So we don't need spoilers for Empire, but let's not say too much about Realm, as I imagine many haven't seen it yet.

My apologies, Trevor. I've adjusted my post.

Originally Posted by riotinmyskull

can we make sure in each thread we mention who picked each week's film?

Well, I picked this week's.

It's probably not a bad idea for future reference to do this.

[Kerborus]

Originally Posted by MTRodaba2468

Time to offer my take.





I may be mistaken here, but I'd hesitate to link Senses and Empire as sister films solely due to their themes.

Spoiler:

While they both focus on doomed relationships (doomed in Senses due to sexual obsession that leads to extreme acts, and doomed in Empire based on guilt), Senses is trying to make more of a political statement, where as Empire tries to also be a genre film (in this case, a ghost story).

I think they tend to be linked more-so due to the production agreement Oshima made with Anatole Dauman (Oshima would direct three films that would feature hardcore sexual content to generate controversy; he declined to include any in Empire, and the third film in the agreement was never produced as a result).

I do agree, though, that Empire was a more satisfying work. While not a bad film, I felt that Senses's political message got somewhat obscured, and it was harder to relate to the characters on an emotional level. I thought Empire worked more on an emotional level, and also worked as a ghost story as well.

I also must say that I'm disappointed that Criterion chose only to release Senses as a Blu-Ray, since the photography in this film is wonderful. I understand that Senses is the more well-known film, but this film would have benefitted just as much, if not more-so, from a Blu release (that's not to discount the DVD transfer; it looked excellent).

Overall, I'm glad I chose this. I was watching a copy I had Netflixed, and midway through, I paused the movie for a couple minutes so I could place an order online to buy my own copy.

Can you tell me more about your thoughts on the political message of the film?

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by MTRodaba2468

My apologies, Trevor. I've adjusted my post.

No biggie. I'm very sensitive to spoilers perhaps, love going into films completely blind.

I think I'm going to go ahead and watch Realm tonight before someone else mentions more about it. Plus it should help in my overall understanding of this film and it's director.

I'll echo that Criterion did do a great job in choosing the cover. And absolutely love the menu. Normally, I don't sit on menus long, just click my choice right away, but left this one on accidentally and was pleasantly surprised by the shifting scene.

[MTRodaba2468]

Originally Posted by Kerborus

Can you tell me more about your thoughts on the political message of the film?

Not to try and defer here, but like I said, I felt that the explicit nature of the movie's content, while necessary to the story the filmmakers were trying to tell, kind of obscured the nature of the film's message when I saw it. I do know that the Criterion's extras are supposed to help clarify this subtext, but since I'm not particularly well informed on Japanese history, it was honestly lost on me at the time when I viewed it.

[vanessabrown18]

Thanks so much for the sharing the info

[JoeySeven]

Empire of Passion(1978) 7.5(A must see before owning)

My 2nd Nagisa Ôshima film that I have seen ,watched Realm of the Senses last month.I'll have to check,but I think these are the only 2 films of his available on DVD in the USA.

I agree it was visual masterpiece.The story ,acting,directing and camera work were all very good.I did think it kind of got boring in some parts latter half of the movie.

Also for me(I love foreign movies),it takes me sometimes two veiwings to rate a movie like this.

I don't know how to do the spoilers tags(I have a feeling some members will view this thread before watching the film).

As soon as I find out how to do them,I got a question about well.

[MTRodaba2468]

Originally Posted by JoeySeven

Empire of Passion(1978) 7.5(A must see before owning)

My 2nd Nagisa Ôshima film that I have seen ,watched Realm of the Senses last month.I'll have to check,but I think these are the only 2 films of his available on DVD in the USA.

I agree it was visual masterpiece.The story ,acting,directing and camera work were all very good.I did think it kind of got boring in some parts latter half of the movie.

Also for me(I love foreign movies),it takes me sometimes two veiwings to rate a movie like this.

I don't know how to do the spoilers tags(I have a feeling some members will view this thread before watching the film).

As soon as I find out how to do them,I got a question about well.

[.spoiler.] TEXT HERE [./spoiler.]

Remove the periods from the tags.

[jbnugent]

This film had me from the get-go. Beautifully photographed, but more impressive to my eyes was the careful composition of every scene. I love symmetry and truly appreciated the attention to detail with regard to symmetry in the framing of each scene.

Additionally, I liked the foreshadowing suggested when the camera settled on the rickshaw drivers feet. It seemed to me that while running, his feet appeared to barely touch the ground. A portent of things to come? Maybe its just me...

Concerning the actors, I was not surprised to find out that the two leads had worked together many times before. They came across as very natural and comfortable with one another. I was surprised, however, to hear that the majority of the scenes were done in one take and with very little rehearsal. That really shows the confidence of the director in his actors as well as the production designer and cinematographer. That confidence is rewarded as it is conveyed very clearly in the finished product.

I will probably watch this again very soon.

Jimmy

[Strawberry10]

Originally Posted by riotinmyskull

just finished watching it and i enjoyed it quite a bit. i like how it started off a little noirish/hitchcockian and then went into a straight up creepy ghost story. all the shots at the well were amazing and criterion certainly chose the perfect image for the cover. i haven't checked out the extras but i probably will before the weeks over. overall i give it a 7/10.

i have a feeling this club is going to do some damage to my wallet. its only the first week and i've already added a title to my wishlist.

I hope so,..I'll try to watch it later.

[too much]

Just got a chance to check this out last night. Amazing film. What a great sense of style. I will have to check out Senses. Great pick for the first film in the club!

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by jbnugent

Additionally, I liked the foreshadowing suggested when the camera settled on the rickshaw drivers feet. It seemed to me that while running, his feet appeared to barely touch the ground. A portent of things to come? Maybe its just me...

Great catch. I rarely notice things like this my first time watching a film.