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Old 04-05-01, 07:41 PM   #1
nbedworth
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Is anyone aware of DVD players that do 720p conversion internally, instead of having to do it externally with a scaler? I'm aware of the MDB/Cinematrix modification kits and wondered if there was anything else out there.
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Old 04-06-01, 09:38 AM   #2
aingl
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Don't think they are out yet. Got this from the perfect vision.com.....

http://www.theperfectvision.com/howto/howto_tech_11.htm

I recommend that you begin your deliberations by determining whether to buy a standard interlaced (480i) or a progressive-scan(480p) model. This decision should be based on the capabilities of your video display. If you own or plan to own a digital TV with a native 480p scan rate, buying a 480p DVD player is a no-brainer. You’ll get the best video images this side of HDTV. In fact,480p DVD looks so good (especially if the player has 2:3 pull-down removal), it’s reason enough to buy a digital TV, even if you never watch a minute of actual HD programming. However, if you own a standard NTSC television or an HD-capable set that upconverts all incoming signals to, say, 1080i resolution, a 480p player won’t do you any good. Keep in mind, however, that most displays look better when driven by signals faster than 480p, and that DVD players capable of a 720p output are about to come on the market.

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Old 04-06-01, 11:36 AM   #3
El Pollo
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It's weird, I read The Perfect Vision's latest issue, and they mentioned two or three times about upcoming 720p players "coming soon". Nobody else, media, various people from various forums, etc. who went to CES 2001, mentioned a thing about 720p DVD players. I can't seem to find a press release out there from any major manufacturer about any DVD players above 480p. I remember hearing something about Princeton Graphics a while ago, but haven't seen a thing from them either.

I'm starting to think it's wishful thinking on TPV's part.
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Old 04-06-01, 01:46 PM   #4
nbedworth
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I'm a writer for The Perfect Vision... there is the MSB/Cinematrix modification for many common players that will scale from 480 to 720p digitally, within the player, which in theory should be much better than going through the player's D/A, then cables, then the A/D of the scaler, etc.

Among other things, this approach is thousands cheaper than using a good scaler.

Also know that several vendors have them under design or in the prototype stage.
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Old 04-06-01, 03:43 PM   #5
El Pollo
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A quick search revealed that Etown mentioned the Princeton 720p prototype way back in 1999. If it's taken this long and I still haven't seen it, I'm going to assume the prototypes from mainstream manufacturers won't be out in time for me to purchase a prog player (pre-fall this year).

I guess the trick would be to find a good player without flaws to get MSB/Cinematrix to do it. The Sony S7700 looks to be the most common one, but according to hometheaterhifi, that player has the chroma upsampling error.
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Old 04-06-01, 04:05 PM   #6
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nbedworth,

I'm a little confused. What is the benefit of a running a source encoded in 480p (DVD) through a player that is 720p? Wouldn't a 720p player be no better than a 480p player unless it is playing an HD-DVD which doesn't even exist yet?
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Old 04-06-01, 04:46 PM   #7
nbedworth
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The Sony 7700 only goes down to 7.5 IRE units in component mode, and is thus pretty substandard for serious use. MDB can handle the Sony 9000 ES which does 0 IRE.

Regarding the benefits of scaling to 720p...

The issue is that with 480p, the scan lines are very obvious especially with larger size screens, so one scales the 480 source material to a higher number of lines, say 720 or even 960 depending, so the line structure is less visible. Better units interpolate the new lines rather than simple brute force replication.

Scaling is typically done using the signal at the analog outputs of the DVD player, with an external device that costs $600 to $6000 or more. The scalers inside some TVs and plasma panels range from second to third rate (relating to cost and space problems).

Doing the scan conversion in the digital domain, inside the DVD player, has numerous advantages relating to noise, avoiding several D/A and A/D conversion steps, etc., and of course it is inherently much, much cheaper than using an external device.
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Old 04-07-01, 12:54 AM   #8
antspawn
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Why 720P when they should go for 1080i..then double that!
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Old 04-07-01, 02:03 AM   #9
nbedworth
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The 720p format looks a lot better; remember that 1080 is an interlaced format, which is essentially 540 lines put up 60 times a second; if you apply the Kell factor (relating to the loss of resolution inherent in the interlacing process) the resolution is about 600 compared to 720, plus you don't get interline twitter/flicker, etc.

On very expensive projectors, 1080p is available and it looks very well, but on consumer TVs, 1080i is low-end HDTV.

Computer displays are often 1400 x 1900 x 85 Hz, non-interlaced, these days so you can see that consumer TV and HDTV are primitive by comparison.
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Old 04-07-01, 07:29 PM   #10
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Sonic, I agree with nbedworth on 720p vs. a line doubled 1080i. I had given a similar response to you(sonic) in a different thread regarding this but the thread became stale and I guess you didn't see it. 720p in it's unchanged native format is much sharper than 1080i.
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