Medspeaking

Finally set up my new HT system last night. I bought an Onkyo receiver and one of the Cambridge Newton packages and a ton of cables. This mess of cables rivals my computer hookups downstairs (with four computers in one room). After MUCH, and I mean MUCH, frustration, we got everything working. I put in a DTS disk and we listened to that for a bit. Ultimately, my husband's response was, "It may be because I'm a little deaf or tired or both, but I think this sux."

I realize this is a little vague, but are there basic setups/configurations I should adhere to in order to make this better? I've got the speakers set on "small." Again, not really sure what that means. The speakers *are* smallish, but so is the room - about 11x18 or so. I've got the center speaker about 8' away from the couch. The left and right speakers are at a diagonal line about 10' from the couch. The rear speakers aren't permanently mounted yet, but they're approximately 10' from the couch, too, on a line with the listeners' ears and maybe a foot up. I've got the rear speakers set on "dipole."

Before, we had one large Altec Lansing speaker that sat on top of the TV, and it actually was pretty darn good. My subjective take on this is that this new system is better but not knock-off-your-socks better, although I admit I was exhausted at the time, too, and didn't put in Gladiator (Russell always makes me feel better). For $2000 and DTS, I guess I expected more. It was certainly louder. But maybe I just didn't set stuff up right.

Again, I know this is vague and I'm NOT audio knowledgeable in any way, shape, or form. But is there something I could/should do to make this better, setup wise?

Peggy

JimRochester

Med; your information is pretty vague but DTS should knock your sox off even with out of the box equipment. Speakers are set based on how much bass they can handle. My mains have built in subwoofers so they are set to large with others set small. Are you sure you're getting DTS? You'll need a digital or optical connection from the player to the receiver. Also getting a set up disc like Avia or Video Essentials and a sound meter will help. If you ask specific questions we can answer.

Medspeaking

Jim,

Yes, I'm getting DTS. When I put the DTS disk in and started playing it, the receiver displayed "DTS."

Perhaps my post is a little premature; I'll sample some other disks later today (the note was posted after only trying one DVD after a frustrating and exhaustive installation). I guess I was looking more for feedback on whether the speaker line up was too close, too far, or dipole wasn't correct, or "small" wasn't correct.

Does Blockbuster rent the video essentials disk or is that something that must be purchased? And what would the benefit be to a sound meter and how would I use it?

Peg

L. Gowron

Post your specs of your system. Maybe you bought some of the wrong equipments, ie Bose. Hope you didn't bought your gear from stores like Best Buy. It could be also your positioning. Also look into changing the soundfield to one you like best.

Medspeaking

I bought:
Onkyo TX-DS575X receiver
Cambridge Newton MC200 L&R main
Cambridge Newton MC300 center
Cambridge Newton P500 powered subwoofer and subwoofer control module
Cambridge Newton S200 Multi-Pole surrounds

I bought it online, but Cambridge gives you a 45-day no questions asked return policy. I think the equipment is very good; but, like I said, I'm probably not setting it up to the optimum. Everything is pretty much set to whatever it defaults to, other than my setting up the speakers to "small," inputting the distance into the receiver, and setting dipole. All the manuals are very confusing and much of it is Greek to me, so I was asking if that's really the only main things I need to be concerned with "setting up."

When you say "soundfield," are you referring to the dipole/bipole thing?


Peg

necros

Unrelated question, but what's so wrong with Bose? I see a lot of people bash them, but all the Bose stuff I've heard in store demos and stuff has always sounded incredible to me. Are they really that bad?

stevevt

Yes they are. Worse, even. But let's not get too off track here.



Med, did you adjust the sub's crossover and output level? I'm sure there's a section in your owner's manual about doing this. If you have the crossover set too low, you'll miss the frequencies between the highest notes that the sub can play and the lowest note that your main speakers can play. If you have it set too high, the sub will be reproducing frequencies that overlap with your main speakers and that a sub isn't good at trying to play.

[Edited by stevevt on 03-23-01 at 06:36 AM]

Medspeaking

Steve,
No, I didn't set any crossover stuff. Like I said, everything pretty much is set to whatever it defaults to out of the box; I only set the things I mentioned earlier. I'll pull the manual and check that section. First, I'll run to Radio Shack and get an SPL meter.

Appreciate being pointed in the right direction. There's just soooo many manuals.

L. Gowron

Don't know too much about the Cambridge speakers. Are you sure they are dipole speakers?

What I meant with soundfields is that you might be able to change the way sound comes out from your receiver. Look into your receiver. For instance, my Sony has the ability to change to Cinema, Live, Concert, Hall, Stadium, etc.

Also the location of your speakers can have an impact to surround sound. If placed too close, the sound will sound like they are coming from once source

L. Gowron

Dipole speaker will sound more diffused. Some people don't like the way they sound. Go to actual home theater store and check out different speaker setup.

stevevt

Even though this might seem counterintuitive, there's no reason to think that the subwoofer left the factory with the crossover setting and output level set at anything near it's optimum setting for your system.

I'm guessing that you're problem is the sub, but it could be a bunch of other things. What specifically is wrong with your system. Does it lack:

* detail?
* dynamics (soft to loud and effects "punchiness")?
* smoothness?
* fullness (a filled-in sound that includes a wide range from low to high)?

Yet more questions:

* What model dvd player are you using?
* Is dynamic compression (this feature, generally called "Night Mode" on receivers--and a bunch of other stuff that usually includes the words "dynamic" or "limiter" or similar on dvd players, limits the dynamic range of your system so that explosions aren't as loud and quiet passages aren't as quiet) turned on?

Illinois Enema Bandit

Getting off-topic, but this link will provide a good summary of the Bose debate

matchpenalty

WHOA!! You need to program the distances of the speakers to the center of the listening area I believe and make sure the test tone from each speaker is the same decibel level (get a meter at radio shack)

1blwnsaleen

I think stevevt posted the most important question in this thread to diagnose this problem. What is it that the system seems to be lacking. Once this is addressed it will make it easier to fix the problem, if it can be fixed. Also regardless of what kind of equipment you bought $200 and dts should absolutely blow you away with performance, and I don't mean that in a loud kind of noisy way. It sounds like to me that there is something definately wrong with the setup if you are that displeased. However there is a second possibility, and please don't take it the wrong way but maybe your ears are not sensitve enough to take advantage of the extended range. My fiends who have auditioned my system always have the same response, wow that is really fantastic. My mother on the other hand can't tell the difference between the speakers on my Mitsubishi Big screen and the 6 speaker surround with sub fed through a Denon receiver. Is she deaf? Not by a longshot, just has a tin ear.

1blwnsaleen

Sorry I meant $2000 and dts not $200.

audrey

if you haven't calibrated your new system by setting each of the speaker distances, the relative volume of each of the 5 speakers, selected the appropriate speaker type (usually speaker small/large), and adjusted the sub- crossover you can't begin to make an assessment of your system. i suggest you buy or rent avia, get a sound pressure meter (at radio shack), calibrate your system, then see what you think. if you do a search here you will turn up lots of threads w/ advice. or just follow the onscreen directions in avia.

Stats

I can't find the link but I swear I remember authoritative web sites say that dipole was created to enhance the surrounds of pro-logic, and is now obsolete with the discrete surrounds of DD and DTS 5.1. If this is the case (and I'll keep looking for the info), you might want to exchange just the surrounds - they could muddy up the 5.1 mix.

Can someone verify that DD/DTS and dipole shouldn't mix?

Astrofan

Boy, I got to tell you--I only have a plain jane Yamaha with the low end BA satellite system (with the very anemic and boomy sub) and I LOVE my system and DTS in particular. Anybody who hears it--except an audiophile--is blown away. Your system should definetly rock.

I do like Stevevt's suggestion that your dynamic compression might be on.

David

[Edited by Astrofan on 03-23-01 at 12:14 PM]

Medspeaking

Update -

I did have to make quite a few adjustments to the sub. I set it to the measurements recommended in the manual (most were at zero or off). I measured the exact distance from my optimal listening spot to the various speakers and inputted that. Then I got the meter from Radio Shack and checked out the tone. They were way divergent from each other. I set them all to the same level...

QUESTION: I arbitrarily chose 60 dB as a level to set them all to. I didn't know if there was a "standard." Any input here would be appreciated.

Finally, I then put in the lobby shootup scene in Matrix. Okay, that was *definitely* nice. You can hear the ping of casings hitting the floor and I'm getting a definite separation of sound (which is what I was missing before). Dialog is crisp and clear. Sound appears to be quite full and nice. I'm going to watch a normal movie tonight (i.e., something without all the crashes and special effects), Almost Famous. Figured that might be a nice one to check out, too, to see how music is handled (I don't normally play music on my DVD; strictly home theater).

Made definite progress today thanks to all the input here. Oh, another question -

QUESTION #2- As stated earlier, I set both my fronts & rears as "small" speakers. Should I be setting one set as "large" and one "small" or should both be small? The speakers themselves in size *are* small, as is the room (about 11x18 or so).

Peg

stevevt

Maybe the manual can shed some light on this, but here's my take: As long as: A) you set all the speakers to the same level and B) your system plays as loud as you need it to, you should be all set. That being said, I'm never used a receiver with this kind of setup, so others here probably have a better idea on what a standard dB level should be.

Glad to hear things are going better.

The small and large setting is not a function of room size at all. The only thing that matters is how low your speakers will play. I just read at hifi.com that the MC200 will play "below 80 Hz." I take that to mean they'll play "slightly below 80 Hz," and would therefore recommend you choose "small" for your main speakers. I couldn't find any specs for your MC300 center speaker, but given that it matches the MC300, it should have a similar frequency response. Set it to small as well. Same thing for your surrounds.

This way the bass from all 5 channels will be directed to where it'll be reproduced the best in your system -- the subwoofer.

One thing I want to add is that you should try to experiment with your subwoofer, especially the output level and room placement. Even incremental changes will make a noticable difference. Grab the husband and make a night of it. In all seriousness, keep making adjustments until you're satisfied. If that never happens, return the stuff.

audrey

although we are getting a bit OT, dipole speakers are definitely not dead. dipoles are as appropriate for DD/DTS 5.1, as they were/are for prologic. some people, however, prefer monopoles because they tend to accentuate the rear channel effects; i.e. they localize better—-although this approach is not typically what the sound designers intended.

monopoles are superior for multi-channel music (as opposed to movie soundtracks). one critical difference is placement; dipoles should be placed to the side of the listening position and aimed to fire along the side walls (not at the listener); monopoles should be placed behind the listener, aimed toward the listening position. ultimately, it's a matter of choice; each can sound great given the proper placement, room, and calibration.

i would be suspect of any site that says dipoles are obsolete.

brilon

It sounds like it could be a number of things.Calibration is the first thing you should do after the settings on the receiver.It could also be the quality of speakers you are using and I think you were expecting to much from DTS.I have only 2 or 3 DTS titles out of 35 that sound better than the DD.As a matter of fact,I have some DD titles that sound MUCH better than the DTS.I would not get to wrapped up in the HYPE that DTS gets.

Medspeaking

The new HT system is very nice. I'm getting overall excellent sound quality - rich voices, great music, and (now) super good bass. I have one quibble -

The rear speakers produce very little discernible noise to me. I realize you shouldn't be getting a whole lot of sound out of these, just the more ambient noises. But sitting on the couch during the subway scene in Matrix, while everything sounded fine overall, when I put my ear right up to the rear speakers I heard low "subway train" noises. When I sat down on the couch, I couldn't hear them. If I upped the volume on the rear speakers,then the settings I made using the SPL meter would be off, and that wouldn't be right. My rear speakers are about 9-1/2' away from the couch. Is that too far maybe? Is there something else I can do to increase what I'm hearing from the surrounds? I don't feel surrounded!

I also noted at a home theater site a very brief mention that someone set their SPL meter so as to achieve 80 dB from all speakers (mine is at 60). Would that maybe be a help?

Peg

Medspeaking

Anyone with any opinions on what to set the SPL to?

DVD_O_Rama

Reference volume level is 85db, but some set it to 75db or less...whatever you feel comfortable listening to is the key.
It doesn't matter if your system is calibrated to 85db or 75db, 60db, or whatever as long as your speakers are matched in volume with the reading taken from the listening position, you should hear all the sounds as they were intended to be heard.
Where were you when you did the measurements using the SPL meter? You said you couldn't hear your surround from the couch, so how in the heck did you get 60db reading from that speaker?