CRM114

I'm fully aware of front projection and what constitutes "big" as relating to the subject at hand - plasma TVs. Anything larger than 65" in a plasma TV is over $10K. So yes, my use of the word "big" is completely appropriate.

CRM114

For purposes of this thread, it is about plasmas in a basement with no light except the recessed lighting in the ceiling. Carry on.

shelland

I just saw an 85" plasma at Costco this weekend. A mere $17,999.99.

Spiky

LOL, no offense CRM114. It's like 6th graders trying to get you to smoke, only positive. We who have big screens know what you REALLY want to try.

All the cool kids are doing it!

Hmm...actually, that's almost perfect for a midrange projector. The $1000 models are a little low on lumens, but once you bump up a step or two, into the 65" plasma price range, you get higher output lamps that can handle more ambient light. Just sayin'.....

Spiky

Which Costco?

CRM114

My family will want to watch the screen with all the lights on and doing other things. It's not a dedicated home theater. Perhaps when my daughter is grown and out of the house and the basement reverts to being all mine, a home theater will be in order. But perhaps I'm ignorant of projectors that will be visible in full light?

Spiky

Aww, man. I was just about to start suggesting big speakers, too.

If you shine light on the screen, nothing will be visible. Unless you can come up with a way to focus the sun through an LCD panel or something. It would depend on the actual brightness level with the recessed lighting.

I'm sure a 65" plasma would be very impressive.

CRM114

Oh, I'm getting big speakers.

I'm totally open to recommendations. I have about $1500 to spend. I have Paradigms now in my upstairs living room but the local Paradigm dealer doesn't exist anymore. In fact, no high end audio dealers exist any more around here.

Sdallnct

Maybe you haven't been following the fun...lol....let me review....

NO DISPLAY will look good with light shinning on it. NONE. ZIP. ZILCH. NADA. GOOSE EGG.

If your going to have light shinning on your screen and refuse, are reluctant, or just won't do anything about it, and you still want a TV, I'd suggest going to Walmart and finding the cheapest set in the size you want. It simply is not going to make a difference. To argue "which is best" is pointless as the real discussion is "what sucks the least".

The only exception I can think of is I read about a screen that absorbs light from the sides while reflecting the light straight on. But these are for projectors.

You would have to define "full light" but yes MOST ANY MODERN DISPLAY INCLUDING FRONT PROJECTOR will be visible and potentially an ok to good image with light in the room so long as it is not shinning on the screen.

I gave a previous example with my projector that is several years old and certainly not a light cannon. Most Sunday mornings I open the two back curtains and turn on lights on medium to full (they are on dimmers) and watch TV while reading the paper. There is more than enough light to read a paper. I would call it "full light". The image on the screen is fine to good depending on the source.

However, if I open the curtains by the screen and let light shine directly on the screen, will get no image. I have track lighting in the room so it is directional. I have some pointing towards posters on the wall, and some on pointing towards the couch and some pointing towards the theater chairs. With these on, I still have a nice image to watch with more than enough light to read by. Of course NONE of them point towards the screen. Why would they be?

The part that most are ignorant about is that you need light CONTROL to the best out of ANY and ALL display types. But you don't need total blackness. In fact, even when I'm watching a movie at night with all curtains closed I might having the lights on the lowest settings. Much like a theater does with their lights along the sides.

CRM114

Meh. I have several plasmas which are perfect using incandescent lighting in the room. Who said anything about "light shining on it?" Lighting a room will not kill the display of a plasma. It will destroy a FP though. I I'm serious about watching something, I obviously turn the lights down. I'm interested in multi-uses. FP would be completely useless to me as I'd like to do other things while watching a Phillies game on a Sunday afternoon. I don't want a dark room with directional lighting. That's why I started the thread. And the Panasonic TC-P65S2 IS the cheapest out there and as far as I know, there is only one other TV in it's size range - the Samsungs.

Sdallnct

You would be incorrect (that lighting in a room destroys a FP).

Enjoy your Panny Plasma. They are a great set.

CRM114

I've been in many a room with a projector with the lights on. Um, yeah. It's destroyed.

I suppose you are talking about having the area by the screen dark with directional lighting in other areas? Not interested in that.

Sdallnct

I just tested to see if maybe I was losing it. I'm not. 2:00pm curtains open. Lights on full. Looks no different than our LCD TV in living room with curtains open and lights on full.

Not sure what you mean by "screen dark". I thought you jumped on me for saying light on the screen? Which is it? You will have light shinning on your screen or not?

I've taken a bunch of pic's hand holding with my camera. But I'm having 2nd thoughts about posting. Your so convinced of your stance, your not going to be happy with anything other than what you have pre-determined as correct.

So get a Panny Plasma. Good set. Enjoy.

CRM114

You mentioned something about a darkened room with track lighting pointed at certain places.

But anyway, I'm not interested in a washed out picture. I'll never have sun beaming in but I will have the room fully illuminated which does not effect the picture significantly on a plasma display. At least not on mine currently. The set emits light. It doesn't accept light being shot across the room. I'm not sure how you can even compare the two.

kefrank

That may have been true at one time, but not anymore. Total darkness is not required to get a great image out of the current front projectors. Even my three-year-old Epson Powerlite delivers a good image in ambient light sufficient for reading when set to the proper mode. The current models are even better. That being said, there are many variables that determine just how much your front projection image would be affected by the ambient light in your room.

One option that hasn't been mentioned yet is that you could do both - have a smaller plasma mounted to the wall for your casual viewing and a front projector with retractable screen that comes down (or up) in front of the plasma for your serious viewing. You just use an HDMI splitter to split the output from your receiver to both. This can actually be just as economical as going with just one or the other, because you don't need as huge a plasma to satisfy your "big screen" itch and you don't need a projector with as high a lumen output since you'd only be using it in low/no light. For example, you can get a 50" Panny plasma for ~$1000 and an Epson Powerlite UB8350 for ~$1300. Add a Da-Lite InstaTheater 90" portable screen and you're still well under $3000. Just another option to consider.

CRM114

That is sort of what I'm thinking about doing, thus the prewiring. But 65" is a good size even for casual viewing.

Spiky

I don't want to get embroiled in an argument, but there are different kinds of screens. Mine is a basic 1.0 gain and would not work for that kind of lighting. But a 2.x gain would amaze you with a powerful lamp.

Sdallnct

I never mentioned "darkened room". My room is not dark. I have an entire WALL of windows that include a sliding glass door, and two floor to ceiling windows. I have track lighting that goes along two walls. During the day I can make that room hugely bright. If your doing this in a basement, your room will be 10X more darker than mine.

Yes, I have light control. I have curtains and I have dimmers. However, I rarely watch in total darkness. In case you weren't reading my posts, I regularly read the paper and "enjoy doing other things" while watching. What exactly are you going to be doing in this room that you need so much light? Perform surgery?

Funny you mention the kids. That is the exact reason I went with a front projector. It takes up no floor space. Kids can't mess with it. And they can watch something WHILE DOING OTHER THINGS. Like playing games on the floor etc.

My picture is not washed out. Well let me say, no more than on my LCD in the living room and we all know LCD is a torch compared to plasma. Modern displays really have very little differences with regards to light.

Your right. Your cannot compare the two. At say 12 feet, I'm sure a 50" plasma appears better than than a 100' screen. Of course my iPhone screen would look better than either one of them at 12'. The smaller you get the better the image appears.

I can easily enjoy a movie with full lights on without a washed out screen. Interesting tho that you note when you "really want to watch" you turn the lights down. Why would you do this? If there is no difference, just leave the lights on. I do exactly the same. I read back there while watching a nice image. But I put on Lord of the Rings in BD, I turn the lights down. And NOTHING brings you into the movie like size.

Maybe instead of posting pic (which I'm sure you would say are rigged somehow), I'll figure out if I can take a decent video tomorrow.

Though again, not sure worth the effort. Your mind is made up. Just a shame to miss out on being able to go big.

Sdallnct

When I built set up my room 5 years ago I thought about it. But even 5 years ago with regards to pj's back than (I started with a X1) there was really no point.

A plasma for "serious" viewing is an odd way to put. Again, if you have a small display, it will look better in most cases. But the OP wants "serious" viewing with all the lights on (even tho he mentioned turning down/off the lights when doing serious viewing). If your not willing to keep light from shinning on your display, I'd argue you not into serious viewing. And again, any light that effect a PJ screen will effect a plasma (or anything else).

Not sure his seating area. But with a basement lets assume 12'. A 50" set would be tinny. 65" would still be small at that distance. Would it be a better pitcher than a 110" FP screen? Who really knows. At that distance anything will look good.

Ours is our everyday set. I built much like the OP is saying. Just for Saturday night movies in the dark "cave". I soon learned it is a fantastic image even just watching David Letterman. And a good image (not washed out any more than anything else) with the lights on to read the paper or whatever.

Sdallnct

Tubes SUCK!!! (want to argue that?)....LOL

Spiky

I can only assume you are refering to amplifier tubes, because the whole vacuum thing seems too obvious.

And no, they don't. They're just a pain to maintain.

kefrank

I'm confused by your phrasing. I can't find any post that talks about a plasma for serious viewing (directly). The OP used the "serious" term when talking about when he turns the lights down and I was just extrapolating that in my post to refer to the type of viewing that he would do with the projector if he had a dual-display setup.

I think you're being a little too strong with this statement. Very generally, ambient light affects all displays in some way, but ambient light doesn't affect all display types the same way or to the same degree. There are too many factors in a front projection setup to make a statement as definitive as yours.

Sdallnct

I agree with you. There are a number of factors. But wouldn't you agree that it "works both ways"? Meaning if your going to state my statement is to strong due to the number of factors involved, wouldn't you also have to state the OP statement is to strong when he states it "destroys" the image?

At least we agree that light needs to be controlled. What the OP and I seem to have trouble communicating is what that control means.

Your forgetting the most important thing light has an effect on. YOUR EYES and you. To argue that any display is unaffected by a lot of light in the room is as pointless as saying a 32" 1080p display is sharper than a 720p display while sitting 15' from the unit. Your eyes are going to be effected and what you see will be effected.

Again, my 46" LCD Samsung 1080p flat panel is in the living room next to a wall of windows (yes, living room has 2 large windows + sliding glass door right next to TV just like my media room). With the curtains open, during the day it is a bad pic. My pj is in a room with a wall of windows with all curtains open it is a bad pitcher. Do we really want to argue which is less bad? And by bad I mean you might as well only be listening to the sound.

Now if leave all curtains open in both rooms EXCEPT the single curtain that allows light to actually hit the display (3 of 4 curtains open), than both displays have a very watchable image. A very solid image. Is one ever so slightly better than another? Idk...maybe. But if your watching with all the lights on, does it really matter?

The wall where my living room TV is, is large and I've toyed with the idea of putting a projector in here. But because of the 10' ceilings I'd have trouble with a nice clean install. The issue is not one of light.

Again, I need to back off. The most important factor in imagine quality is your individual personality and belief. If the OP thinks the Plasma is the best for him, he needs to get it. And guess what? It will be the best for him. If he thingks a fp will suck (I run into people all the time that think a pj is for business presentations only) than guess what. It will suck.

Sdallnct

So to answer the OP's question regarding Panny v. Samsung.

I'm more of a Panasonic fan. Is there an image difference? Maybe. Maybe not. But I like the Panasonic as it has been so popular through the years there is so much information to find regarding calibration.

However, the Samsung seems to be gaining momentum. Not only because it seems to have a nice image at generally less expensive price, but because of the whole deteriorating black level thing by Panasonic.

kefrank

Absolutely. I think you and I are pretty much in total agreement. I just think it's important to accurately portray the nature of a front projection system. Light control is important for any display type, but the specifics of that light control and its affect on the display will vary with display type. It can even vary significantly in the same room with the same light from projector to projector and projection screen to projection screen (probably moreso than from plasma to plasma). The bottom line that you and I agree on wholeheartedly though is that it's certainly possible to have a comfortable level of controlled light and a great image from a front projector, given the right equipment and setup.