chess

For those few who were following my SA-WM40 thread (and anyone else who wants to join), I thought I’d start a subwoofer setup advice thread based on my experiences. Any further bits of wisdom and/or questions are welcome. If you disagree with something I say, feel free to refute it, and try to bear in mind that these are simply my opinions based on my limited experience.

Things I’ve noticed:

1. Given the choice, the subwoofer pre-out is the best connection between your receiver and sub. Just my opinion having tried both ways. It seems “cleaner” and easier to tune.

2. Be sure to set your mains to “small” and your subwoofer setting to “on” before assuming that something is wrong with your receiver or sub.

3. Assuming that your mains can handle lower frequencies (say 80-120 hz), set the sub crossover on your receiver as low as possible. Your mains are probably more musical anyway, and this really adds to the directional effect of a x.1 system. A sub should augment a surround system, not overpower it.

4. Assuming that you have your sub crossed over via your receiver, turn the crossover on your sub all the way up (in effect, bypassing it). Nothing good will come of using dual crossovers, and you will likely create a “hole” in your frequency range.

5. If you have a large listening room, put your sub in a corner. Be sure it’s a foot or so from either wall so that the “waves” from the sub reflect off both walls. This will allow you to decrease the gain, and therefore, the distortion. You can get away with less careful placement in a smaller room but will still benefit from proper placement.

6. More for the large room. If your sub sounds like it’s a bit behind your mains or sounds “slow”, try reversing the phase.

7. If you find that your room reaches it’s limitations before your sub does (pictures/windows rattling), do something about it. I’ve found that a strip of bubble-wrap taped between the wall and a picture frame works wonders.

8. Give your sub some time to break in before you do any serious or final placement. 20 hours or so should do it.

9. An SPL meter and a test disk will pay serious dividends.

10. Did I mention an SPL meter?

Product recommendations:

I haven’t heard a “cheap” sub ($100-300) better than the Sony mentioned above. Please bear in mind that a 12” driver will never sound as “tight” as an 8” driver but will generally move a lot more air. Really, it depends on your preference, and I would recommend auditioning a few subs before buying one.

There are several good choices in the mid-price ($300-600) range. The best I’ve heard is the Hsu. On the upper fringe of this range is the SVS, which many rave about, but I have not heard.

Above that, you are mostly on your own. I have heard the 15” Velodyne, and it sounded great, but I don’t really have anything to compare it to.

[Edited by chess on 02-27-01 at 11:57 AM]

stevevt

But what if your main speakers can only play to 80 Hz, and your receiver's crossover's lowest setting is 40 Hz? What if it's 60 Hz?

For all I know there are no receivers in the world with crossovers that adjust to lower than 80 Hz. But I tend to doubt that.

chess

i'm a little unclear on what you mean, steve, but if you're saying that your mains are rated down to 80hz, i would set the crossover at 100hz.

my energys are rated to 50hz, and i still wouldn't go any lower than 100hz with the crossover. my concern was for the folks who have their subs playing as high as 150 or 200hz.

when a sub plays high enough that you can locate it in the room (by ear), it's crossed over too high.

stevevt

I'm not saying anything about my mains, just about the advice you gave, which is this:

If your speakers play to 80Hz, use the lowest crossover setting on your receiver.

All I'm saying is that the lowest crossover setting on your receiver may be too low, depending on what it is.

Anyhow, not that it matters, but my main speakers go to 26Hz.

chess

must be some mains!

you're absolutely right about the settings. i'm working under the assumption that receivers generally set their lowest crossover at either 80hz or 100hz.

if your mains are THAT good, hopefully, you know that i'm talking about the typical system anyway. i'm guessing you probably have a separate crossover (assuming you bother to have a sub at all).

palebluedot

chess You should also add to your post that you should break in a sub for at least 20 hours before doing any serious "sound" setup. This is very important as the sound of a sub will change as it breaks in.

stevevt

http://www.vonschweikert.com/vrtheater/VRT-2000M.HTM

Slightly better image here: http://www.vonschweikert.com/vrtheat...VRT-2100-1.gif and here: http://www.vonschweikert.com/vrtheat.../VR-1000-1.GIF

I guess they actually go to 24Hz. My bad! Of course, once you get that low, it's very room dependent. I doubt I've ever gotten any significant output below 30Hz from them. I don't have a subwoofer.

I agree that the odds of someone having both a receiver that has a crossover adjustable to below 80Hz and main speakers that only go to 80Hz are very low.

I wasn't try to poo on your thread, just make a clarification. Nice job, tips, etc.

Luka

Thanks for the tips... it's amazing what a few adjustments can do!

Chris

chess

added the break in period, and gave a nod to SPL meters. lovely invention.

Alfer

Preach on Chess!!

I found the sweetspot and settings for my system and have been rockin for 4 months now!

p.s. "Gone in 60 Seconds" is truly a great DVD to play w/ this (or any) sub!! Movies is pretty much fluff, but love hearin' those engines rumble!

Alfer

DVD_O_Rama

I've seen windows rattle, pictures fall, glasses shake, pets topple over and drywall seperate from the stud. Bubble-wrap ain't gonna cut it.
Most people have no idea of the amount of air being moved when listening to a bass-intense disc at reference voulmes (with proper playback equipment, of course).
This thread is a nice subwoofer primer, chess. Keep up the good work.

DavidY

Stevevt,

There are a few including the Sony ES and Sony DB series receivers. I have the Sony STR-DA777ES and am able to adjust the crossovers for the mains, rears, and centre separately. I did have the mains, rears, and centre crossed at 50 Hz, 60 Hz and 70 Hz, respectively. I think that the Outlaw and the expensive B&K are able to adjust the crossovers....probably not as flexible as the Sony's.

Dave

chess

LOL

i just used bubble-wrap as an example. you wouldn't believe some of the creative stuff i've done to maintain aesthetics while decreasing rattles.

but you're right, it seems like my place loosens a bit with each passing movie... walked back to my bedroom the other night in the middle of Titan A.E. (great DTS track BTW) and my closet door sounded like it was about to rattle off the hinges.

Nimbus

How is the receiver's crossover adjusted? I just bought my first receiver and the Denon manual makes no mention of the term "crossover" at all.

One problem I'm having is a lack of bass from the SA-WM40 while watching DD & DTS movies. Yet, when I run through the speaker test tones, the sub roars to life and shakes the walls. What's going on? I want THAT kind of bass watching movies, too!

stevevt

If you tell us which model Denon you have, maybe somebody with the same one or a similar model can chime in.

Does your receiver have a set-up menu?

It's possible that the crossover isn't adjustable. Not sure how common this is, but I know there are receivers like that. If you look on the specifications page in your owner's manual, there might be more info about where the crossover is set.

Kromax

Is the crossover adjustable on the Onkyo 575?

Nimbus

It's a Denon 3801, and it does have a nice on-screen display. I went through all the settings and "crossover" isn't mentioned anywhere. There is a panel for adjusting the level of each speaker and/or sub from +12 dB to -12 dB. Right now all of them are set to the default "0."<small>

[Edited by Nimbus on 03-08-01 at 03:59 PM]

Patman

Denon receivers crossover at 80Hz per THX specs.

No, the Onkyo 575 does not offer flexible bass management in selecting the cutover frequency.

As stated earlier, the new Sony ES V333/444/555 series offers BM with cutover frequencieds (40-180 in 10Hz increments), and the DB840/940 (60-180 in 30Hz increments).

But I have a monster sub or two, so I have plenty o' bass.

ALMC

I'm in close to the same boat as nimbus. I have a Denon 2801 and the Sony WM 40. My mains are Paradigm Reference 20s.

So how do I set the sub-woofer to the max cross-over or the min cross-over And what do I do with the Denon, I too can't find a cross-over setting. Can it be adjusted? If so, how?

thanks

Outlaw

Hi! I had this problem with the SA-WM40 for a long time and looked through every page of the manual of my Denon 1801 as well and there is no way to set the crossover on the receiver(at least on mine). The sub was considerably quiet in 5.1 or DTS movies even with the cut off frequencey on the sub all the way to the right and the volume almost at max. A few weeks ago I also found that channel level menu Nimbus was talking about that selects the SW volume from -12 to +12. Turning it up to +10 created the earth shaking bass others were talking about. I have a large family room with a very high triangular ceiling and with SW "channel volume" set to +10, "tone" for bass set to +12 on the receiver and the cut off frequency turned all the way to the right, and the volume about 3/4 of the way on the sub, it more than fills the room with awesome sound. All my friends were jealous! If anyone is not getting enough bass from the sub with a Denon receiver try those settings, I hope it helps.

stingo

I'm very interested in this thread as I've just ordered a KEF 30B sub and have had no prior experience to setting one up. Thanks for the advice - keep it coming...

audrey

not sure why you would assume the above, since there are a number of relatively inexpensive receivers like the Outlaw with adjustable crossover points that mate well with small speakers like the SuperZero/One, Atom's, etc.

jumbojp

Also note that there is "crossover roll off" usually expressed in db per octave.

A sub crossover set at 80HZ will still play at 100HZ, just at a lower volume due to rolloff. So it isn't like the sound just cuts off at 80HZ.

You can set a sub at 80HZ even if your speakers only go down to 90-100HZ because the rolloff between the two will probably overlap.

Kman1011

Here is what I have, what are your crossover recommnedations:

Sony DBR-930 receiver
mains-PSB 5t
Center-PSB 8c
Rears- psb 1b
Sub-Sony of course.


Any and all help is appreciated. I just purchased an slp meter as well today.

Toad

Where's the best place to put a SUB in a small room, say a 15 X 15 room, or something like that?

Do I need to put it away from a wall?
Is it bad to hide it under a bed, etc.?