I don't like RPTV's, I have found a nice LCD. Opinions?
03-09-03, 07:58 PM
#1
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I don't like RPTV's, I have found a nice LCD. Opinions?
There's an ad for a Panasonic 40" LCD HDTV monitor for $2799.95 with a free ATSC digital tuner in the Ultimate Electronics circular. I honestly don't know anything about LCD monitors except for Game Boy. 
If I could get a little feedback on it, it would be great. Thanks.
If I could get a little feedback on it, it would be great. Thanks.
03-09-03, 10:16 PM
#2
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They have pros and cons, so you definitely want to look at the picture closely before you buy, in a darkened room if possible.
LCD can produce a nice picture, but has notoriously poor contrast (actual black is virtually non-existent), and fast motion can be hard for LCD to keep up with. I hear improvements are being made on both fronts, though.
LCD can produce a nice picture, but has notoriously poor contrast (actual black is virtually non-existent), and fast motion can be hard for LCD to keep up with. I hear improvements are being made on both fronts, though.
03-10-03, 02:48 PM
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as a salesman for ultimate electronics, my answer might surprise you...
that tv is "nice", but if you dont like the image quality of RPTV's, this one will surely leave you lacking. it has very poor image quality in my mind. its a good price, but the image is just crap.
look into a samsung dlp, or maybe the tabletop mitsubishi.
or, go into the store, let a salesperson know what you are looking for, and see what they suggest.
that tv is "nice", but if you dont like the image quality of RPTV's, this one will surely leave you lacking. it has very poor image quality in my mind. its a good price, but the image is just crap.
look into a samsung dlp, or maybe the tabletop mitsubishi.
or, go into the store, let a salesperson know what you are looking for, and see what they suggest.
03-11-03, 10:42 AM
#5
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For that price you could get a 55-65" HDTV (or HDTV-ready) rptv with an awesome picture. Or a so-so/disappointing lcd monitor. But you don't like rptv's. Your loss, I guess. LCD's don't have decent contrast or black levels, as noted above, and fast-moving objects aren't as sharp either. I haven't seen great color saturation on led's. What don't you like asbout rptv's? They're the best picture in your price range, by far...
03-11-03, 11:47 AM
#6
I used to be in the RPTV = Bad camp as well
I remember them all looking like something we have all seen at the local sports bar - Washed out, double lines around the image, and worst of all ununiform brightness depending on where you were sitting.
Well that has all changed now. I'm a convert - I wanted to wait for plazma or a LCD, but after reading about the pro's and con's of LCD/Plasma/RPTV I decided that the improved technology and tired and true performance of RPTV led me to buy a HDTV ready one.
Go and take a look at them at the store.
But if you have done the research and you decided on a LCD and you are happy with this model and price - Pick it up
I remember them all looking like something we have all seen at the local sports bar - Washed out, double lines around the image, and worst of all ununiform brightness depending on where you were sitting.
Well that has all changed now. I'm a convert - I wanted to wait for plazma or a LCD, but after reading about the pro's and con's of LCD/Plasma/RPTV I decided that the improved technology and tired and true performance of RPTV led me to buy a HDTV ready one.
Go and take a look at them at the store.
But if you have done the research and you decided on a LCD and you are happy with this model and price - Pick it up
03-11-03, 12:39 PM
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tenaciousdave,
Your comments are confusing to me. A properly set-up HD RPTV with a progressive scan DVD player is simply breath taking. Quality varies when watching regular cable or broadcast signals but with progressive scan it's awesome.
Your comments are confusing to me. A properly set-up HD RPTV with a progressive scan DVD player is simply breath taking. Quality varies when watching regular cable or broadcast signals but with progressive scan it's awesome.
03-11-03, 02:00 PM
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My parents had a few RPTV's when I was growing up, and they constantly had problems. I always thought my tube televisions looked better anyway. CPA-ESQ summed up my problem list pretty well. Anyone know any cons to the DLP televisions? Besides price?
03-11-03, 03:07 PM
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My parents had a few RPTV's when I was growing up, and they constantly had problems.
03-11-03, 03:11 PM
#10
tenaciousdave:
I used to have those concerns until I saw them in the store, saw them play DVDs on a progressive scan player, saw HDTV, etc.. they are much better than both you and I remember. (they are breath taking)
I was so impressed I bought a 16:9 RPTV recently:
but to answer your question here is the pros and cons of DLP
Credit to "aj327" at HDTV oice :
"So far, here are the main benefits and problems of DLP:
Problems:
1) The rainbow effect
Basically if you're watching somthing that is high motion or if you move your eyes too quickly you'll see a burst of color that people describe as "rainbows." It appears as though this anomoly is due to the color wheel that the DLP employs. The reason you see purple with a DLP set is not because a purple light is being shown on your eye, but rather alternating blue and red light - which gives you the illusion of purple. When this illusion breaks down - you see rainbows. The strange thing is that it seems to vary from set to set and from person to person. And some people can't see rainbows on any set they look at.
2) Temporal dithering
From what I've read, I think the rainbow effect may actually just be a variation on the temporal dithering problems. Temporal dithering by definition is a means to fool the eye into thinking that motion is actually taking place - and when it works it's a good thing. However, when the illusion breaks down it's not so good. In DLPs this can be seen during a camera pan, when everythiing on the screen moves. Presumably, the dithering is just not fast enough and you can end up seeing color banding and general breakdown of the picture. Again this seems to vary from set to set.
3) Black Level
Though the black level isn't fantastic, I think the majority opinion is that it's still better than LCD.
I think those are the main ones - aside from factory screwup type issues. Dead pixels are exceedingly uncommon from what I've read. It seems the main problem is getting these babies calibrated "tightly" in mass quantities. The variability of these sets is enough to make anyone hesitant of buying one - and would almost necessitate purchase at a brick and mortar store. I've been going back and forth on the pros and cons of DLP for a while now and am not quite sure where I'm at right now, but I'm going to at least wait until June to see how the new Samsung HLN series DLPs do.
OK - the positives.
1) No Burn-in.
My personal favorite. Your simply reflecting light off of a mirror (digital micromirror device) and onto your eyes. No phosphors are involved, hence no burn-in). I won't list all the benefits of this - but trust me there are many. You basically don't have to baby your tv.
2) Pure digital connection from input, to your eyes.
This makes the set especially good for those who want their set hooked up to their PC. Plus without the digital to analog conversion, the signal stays "clean" all the way through. Theoretically this should make for a picture that has incredibly high fidelity in regards to clarity, color, and brightness. Again, whether or not this high level of clarity is attained seems to vary from set to set.
3) Slim and light
Usually around 15" deep and around 85 or so pounds for the 50" model. Not as slim as the plasmas of course but a heck of a lit thinner than the CRTs.
4) Wide viewing angle
Though not as wide as direct views, they're much better than rpCRTs at around 160 degrees. "
I used to have those concerns until I saw them in the store, saw them play DVDs on a progressive scan player, saw HDTV, etc.. they are much better than both you and I remember. (they are breath taking)
I was so impressed I bought a 16:9 RPTV recently:
but to answer your question here is the pros and cons of DLP
Credit to "aj327" at HDTV oice :
"So far, here are the main benefits and problems of DLP:
Problems:
1) The rainbow effect
Basically if you're watching somthing that is high motion or if you move your eyes too quickly you'll see a burst of color that people describe as "rainbows." It appears as though this anomoly is due to the color wheel that the DLP employs. The reason you see purple with a DLP set is not because a purple light is being shown on your eye, but rather alternating blue and red light - which gives you the illusion of purple. When this illusion breaks down - you see rainbows. The strange thing is that it seems to vary from set to set and from person to person. And some people can't see rainbows on any set they look at.
2) Temporal dithering
From what I've read, I think the rainbow effect may actually just be a variation on the temporal dithering problems. Temporal dithering by definition is a means to fool the eye into thinking that motion is actually taking place - and when it works it's a good thing. However, when the illusion breaks down it's not so good. In DLPs this can be seen during a camera pan, when everythiing on the screen moves. Presumably, the dithering is just not fast enough and you can end up seeing color banding and general breakdown of the picture. Again this seems to vary from set to set.
3) Black Level
Though the black level isn't fantastic, I think the majority opinion is that it's still better than LCD.
I think those are the main ones - aside from factory screwup type issues. Dead pixels are exceedingly uncommon from what I've read. It seems the main problem is getting these babies calibrated "tightly" in mass quantities. The variability of these sets is enough to make anyone hesitant of buying one - and would almost necessitate purchase at a brick and mortar store. I've been going back and forth on the pros and cons of DLP for a while now and am not quite sure where I'm at right now, but I'm going to at least wait until June to see how the new Samsung HLN series DLPs do.
OK - the positives.
1) No Burn-in.
My personal favorite. Your simply reflecting light off of a mirror (digital micromirror device) and onto your eyes. No phosphors are involved, hence no burn-in). I won't list all the benefits of this - but trust me there are many. You basically don't have to baby your tv.
2) Pure digital connection from input, to your eyes.
This makes the set especially good for those who want their set hooked up to their PC. Plus without the digital to analog conversion, the signal stays "clean" all the way through. Theoretically this should make for a picture that has incredibly high fidelity in regards to clarity, color, and brightness. Again, whether or not this high level of clarity is attained seems to vary from set to set.
3) Slim and light
Usually around 15" deep and around 85 or so pounds for the 50" model. Not as slim as the plasmas of course but a heck of a lit thinner than the CRTs.
4) Wide viewing angle
Though not as wide as direct views, they're much better than rpCRTs at around 160 degrees. "
Last edited by CPA-ESQ.; 03-11-03 at 03:14 PM.
03-11-03, 08:10 PM
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I've read that the new Sony LCD's (Grand Wega, 60 or 63 inch?) are supposed to be great, and improve a lot on the LCD disadvantages... at a price around $2000 retail (2500 MSRP or so).
Was the reviewer smoking crack, or would it be a way to go?
(It's okay if you look into the future a little bit - there is no chance I'd look for a tv in less than 9 months to a year)
Was the reviewer smoking crack, or would it be a way to go?
(It's okay if you look into the future a little bit - there is no chance I'd look for a tv in less than 9 months to a year)
03-14-03, 10:37 AM
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I'm still in the "I don't like RPTVs" camp too.
To convince me to think otherwise, what models would you all sugguest I check out in the stores? I have an open mind, I guess, but I have yet to see one that satisfied me.
To convince me to think otherwise, what models would you all sugguest I check out in the stores? I have an open mind, I guess, but I have yet to see one that satisfied me.
03-14-03, 10:46 AM
#14
Hitachi is good.
go to a place that is playing HD - or a good signal
I found Best Buy to be good (They played some sort of DTV fed loop), Circut City to be the worst (They loop a video tape on circut city and play their comercials ), and Sears was great (played Dish Network HD channels and sports etc..you can ask the guy to change channels etc.)
If you were close I would invite you over to check out my TV.. Just got my HD box hooked up and WOW!!!
Regular broadcast (being upconverted on my DTV box) is 100% better than regular SD..
HD is awesome!!! can't beleive it ..... My RPTV looks like a window! No Sports bar here!
Check it out - keep an open mind - let us know.
go to a place that is playing HD - or a good signal
I found Best Buy to be good (They played some sort of DTV fed loop), Circut City to be the worst (They loop a video tape on circut city and play their comercials ), and Sears was great (played Dish Network HD channels and sports etc..you can ask the guy to change channels etc.)
If you were close I would invite you over to check out my TV.. Just got my HD box hooked up and WOW!!!
Regular broadcast (being upconverted on my DTV box) is 100% better than regular SD..
HD is awesome!!! can't beleive it ..... My RPTV looks like a window! No Sports bar here!
Check it out - keep an open mind - let us know.
03-14-03, 10:59 AM
#15
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Mitsubishi WS55xxx or 65xxx. Although in stores, the contrast and color are usually set way too high. And convergence may be off too. It might be worth checking the convergence if a remote is handy (go to Advanced Options on the menu screen, then Convergence, then hit Audio to get the full-screen grid and check if things are aligned.) An HD signal would also be great, or even a DVD playing. Or email me if you're in NYC to check out a properly set-up rptv...
