Release List Reviews Shop Join News DVD Giveaways Video Games Advertise
DVD Reviews | Theatrical Reviews | Adult DVD Reviews | Video Game Reviews | Price Search Buy Stuff Here
DVD Talk
DVD Reviews DVD Talk Headlines HD Reviews


Add to My Yahoo! - RSS 2.0 - RSS 2.0 - DVD Talk Podcast RSS -


Go Back   DVD Talk Forum > DVD Discussions > DVD & Home Theater Gear

DVD & Home Theater Gear Discuss DVD and Home Theater Equipment.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-17-02, 12:01 PM   #1
hachiman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 63
Widescreen TV's?

Am i right in saying that if you watch a Widescreen DVD or Video on a Widescreen TV that you don't see the Black Bars'but see it as it was originally seen at the Movies?

Thanx
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-02, 12:13 PM   #2
Jadzia
Moderator
 
Jadzia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Michigan
Posts: 15,158
Only if the aspect ratio is 1:85:1 or less.

Movies with a 2:35:1 ratio (or higher) will still have black bars, although they wll be much smaller than on a standard (4:3) set.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-02, 12:14 PM   #3
rdodolak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 652
If the aspect ratio of the film is Anamorphic 1.78:1 then you wouldn't see any place bars. You will still see black bars for larger aspect ratios like 2.35:1, etc. but the black bars will be smaller than as seen on a conventional 4:3 television. For smaller ratios like 1.33:1 you will have vertical bars on the left and right of the picture. Of course you could always stretch or zoom in on the image to get rid of the bars but you will be losing picture.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-02, 12:15 PM   #4
Mark Holtz
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Sacramento, State of Bankruptcy
Posts: 1,401
Even with a widescreen TV, films shot in the 2.35:1 ratio (such as The Matrix or Twister) will still display the black bars, albiet less noticable. Films and series shot in the 1.78:1 ratio (such as Enterprise, Angel, You've Got Mail, and The Fugitive) will not show the black bars and fill the whole screen.
__________________
New Fry's Policy: If you ask me if I want a Fry's card, I will ask to see you manager.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-02, 12:18 PM   #5
zargon
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 226
You still will get black bars on a wide screen TV, it just can't be avoided. There are too many aspect rations to deal with, so you still have the black bars. Of course it is going to be less, but they still are there. I don't even notice them on my 4:3 TVs, I don't see why everyone gets so pissed at this.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-02, 02:11 PM   #6
Foole
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: The sprawling metropolis of Manassas Park, VA USA
Posts: 3,616
Remember, the biggest advantage to using a 16x9 TV is to take advantage of anamorphically enhanced DVDs...the resolution you gain makes the pictures FAR superior to watching the same disc downconverted on a 4x3 set...

And if you don't like black bars, try watching with the lights off. The bars blend into the darkness and disappear completely (for 4x3 and 16x9 sets).
__________________
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrgde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprometnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-02, 02:18 PM   #7
acostigan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 683
Here's what I thought...
If you have a 16x9 television, you need an anamorphic transfer to properly fill the display area. A regular widescreen DVD or video tape will have a 4:3 aspect ratio and give you black bands on the left and right, unless you have a zoom feature and use it.

-AC
__________________
obligatory collection link
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-02, 02:29 PM   #8
Xytraguptorh
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Parts, Unknown
Posts: 1,137
Quote:
Originally posted by acostigan
Here's what I thought...
If you have a 16x9 television, you need an anamorphic transfer to properly fill the display area. A regular widescreen DVD or video tape will have a 4:3 aspect ratio and give you black bands on the left and right, unless you have a zoom feature and use it.

-AC
All widescreen TVs have a zoom feature that can be used to eliminate vertical bars on the left and right sides of the image. I've never watched a (nonanamorphic) letterbox DVD or VHS tape "windowboxed". While they're not as good as anamorphic, letterbox movies still can look very good on a widescreen TV.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-02, 03:22 PM   #9
JimRochester
DVD Talk Legend
 
JimRochester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Rochester, NY. USA
Posts: 12,795
Quote:
Originally posted by acostigan
Here's what I thought...
If you have a 16x9 television, you need an anamorphic transfer to properly fill the display area. A regular widescreen DVD or video tape will have a 4:3 aspect ratio and give you black bands on the left and right, unless you have a zoom feature and use it.

-AC
On my Mitsubishi it is the expand feature which will fill the screen or most of it. Although the clarity is not as good as anamorphic, the ratio is correct so people aren't squishy and you don't have to reduce the size of the picture.
__________________
Back in 1992 my job was to convince people they needed a cellphone. How things have changed. // Panasonic 58" VIERA Plasma, Pioneer Elite vsx91, SONY s590 375 titles, Toshiba A35 79 titles, Definitive Technologies speakers and supercube sub.// Most wanted BD: Bugsy/DieHard 4(R rated)/Dragnet/PearlHarbor(DC)/(an affordable)Sleepless In Seattle/Timeline/Tin Cup/True Lies/While You Were Sleeping.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-02, 03:23 PM   #10
jflynn
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 93
Quote:
Originally posted by Xytraguptorh


All widescreen TVs have a zoom feature that can be used to eliminate vertical bars on the left and right sides of the image. I've never watched a (nonanamorphic) letterbox DVD or VHS tape "windowboxed". While they're not as good as anamorphic, letterbox movies still can look very good on a widescreen TV.
This actually becomes tricky for HDTV widescren sets being fed with a progressive scan (480p) DVD player. 480p looks VERY nice on a good HD set, but non-anamorphic material will have bars top/bottom and left/right ... unless your DVD player does auto-scaling.

The issue is that most HDTVs force to "full" mode when fed 480p (don't have the bandwidth to zoom at that scan rate, or otherwise simply don't zoom). Hence, you want a progressive scan DVD player that does auto-scaling. Trust me.

Furthermore, anyone with a widescreen HDTV who does not have a progressive scan DVD player or a deinterlacer with their interlaced DVD player is really missing out. The inetrnal line doubler in the HDTV does not compare to running 480p. Just my .05 folks.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-02, 03:59 PM   #11
zargon
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally posted by Foole
Remember, the biggest advantage to using a 16x9 TV is to take advantage of anamorphically enhanced DVDs...the resolution you gain makes the pictures FAR superior to watching the same disc downconverted on a 4x3 set...
With more and more 4x3 TVs coming out with some form of compression, having a 16x9 TV really isn't going to benifit you anymore for that.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-02, 04:04 PM   #12
Foole
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: The sprawling metropolis of Manassas Park, VA USA
Posts: 3,616
Quote:
Originally posted by jflynn


This actually becomes tricky for HDTV widescren sets being fed with a progressive scan (480p) DVD player. 480p looks VERY nice on a good HD set, but non-anamorphic material will have bars top/bottom and left/right ... unless your DVD player does auto-scaling.

The issue is that most HDTVs force to "full" mode when fed 480p (don't have the bandwidth to zoom at that scan rate, or otherwise simply don't zoom). Hence, you want a progressive scan DVD player that does auto-scaling. Trust me.

Furthermore, anyone with a widescreen HDTV who does not have a progressive scan DVD player or a deinterlacer with their interlaced DVD player is really missing out. The inetrnal line doubler in the HDTV does not compare to running 480p. Just my .05 folks.

For the record, Toshiba 16x9 sets do NOT lock into FULL mode when fed a progressive signal...this helps with non/anamorphic DVDs and 4x3 DVDs. I can get away with using a Panasonic RP-56 DVD player which does not do scaling...I think Mitsubishi sets DO lock into full mode...any others that do or do not?
__________________
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrgde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprometnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-02, 04:18 PM   #13
Static Cling
Admin Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Texas, our Texas! All hail the mighty state!
Posts: 12,839
Moving to Hardware.
__________________
Mike's Collection

They stompled all over me. - Thunderball
Hippies take things from all cultures and make it suck. - kvrdave
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-02, 04:23 PM   #14
jflynn
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 93
Not sure about other makes, but the Panasonics do lock to full with 480p. Lucky you getting to use an RP56 with an HD display, I'm stuck with a JVC.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-02, 09:40 PM   #15
JimRochester
DVD Talk Legend
 
JimRochester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Rochester, NY. USA
Posts: 12,795
Mitsubishi does not lock into full mode. The only thing it does not allow is 4:3 material to be stretched when using component video cables. So I have both component and an S-cable for 4:3.
__________________
Back in 1992 my job was to convince people they needed a cellphone. How things have changed. // Panasonic 58" VIERA Plasma, Pioneer Elite vsx91, SONY s590 375 titles, Toshiba A35 79 titles, Definitive Technologies speakers and supercube sub.// Most wanted BD: Bugsy/DieHard 4(R rated)/Dragnet/PearlHarbor(DC)/(an affordable)Sleepless In Seattle/Timeline/Tin Cup/True Lies/While You Were Sleeping.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-02, 04:56 PM   #16
hachiman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 63
Just got it.

Just got a Widescreen tv today.

Have 4 viewing modes.

Zoom/4:3/16:9 and letterbox.

The last 2 i am interested in.
16:9 seems like the old Widescreen on a normal tv screen apart from being Longer.

Letterbox seems the better version as it fills up most of the vertical and i only get small bars at the top and bottom.

In technical terms whats the difference and am i losing any Horizontal edges of the Movie'by expanding from 16:9 to Letterbox.

I am sure i saw slightly more on the edges in 16:9 than i see in Letterbox'though not a great deal.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-02, 10:49 AM   #17
JimRochester
DVD Talk Legend
 
JimRochester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Rochester, NY. USA
Posts: 12,795
Re: Just got it.

Quote:
Originally posted by hachiman
Just got a Widescreen tv today.

Have 4 viewing modes.

Zoom/4:3/16:9 and letterbox.

The last 2 i am interested in.
16:9 seems like the old Widescreen on a normal tv screen apart from being Longer.

Letterbox seems the better version as it fills up most of the vertical and i only get small bars at the top and bottom.

In technical terms whats the difference and am i losing any Horizontal edges of the Movie'by expanding from 16:9 to Letterbox.

I am sure i saw slightly more on the edges in 16:9 than i see in Letterbox'though not a great deal.

I'm just guessing here because I don't know the model, but comparing to my Mitsubishi; I also have zoom which continues to focus on the center of the screen but crops off equally around the edges.

4:3 puts gray bars on the sides to accomodate TV or any 1.33 material.

I also have stretched mode which takes 4:3 material and pull the sides out to fill the screen to avoid burn-in. Doesn't sound like you have this

My standard mode is for any anamorphic material be it 1.85 or 2.35 (2.35 will still have black bars top and bottom)

The last mode is expand which takes non-anamorphic material and vertically brings it back to it's correct ratio so it doesn't appear squished.

I would guess your 16:9 is my standard and letterbox is my expand but even if it's reversed, you get the idea. You shouldn't lose anything on the sides by switching from 16:9 to letterbox but to have the image appear correct vertically you'll need the right setting.
__________________
Back in 1992 my job was to convince people they needed a cellphone. How things have changed. // Panasonic 58" VIERA Plasma, Pioneer Elite vsx91, SONY s590 375 titles, Toshiba A35 79 titles, Definitive Technologies speakers and supercube sub.// Most wanted BD: Bugsy/DieHard 4(R rated)/Dragnet/PearlHarbor(DC)/(an affordable)Sleepless In Seattle/Timeline/Tin Cup/True Lies/While You Were Sleeping.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-02, 05:14 PM   #18
hachiman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 63
Widest Screen

My DVD Player is

LG DVD4210

The manual is available or download if you type model 4210 in the webpage from the Link Below

http://www.lge.com/c_product/e_refle...owmcode=GBRen1

The TV is LG RI-28CZ10RX

I have the manual'but can't find anything on the net about it at all.

I am in the UK.

The TV has 4 different screen sizes Zoom/4:3/16:9 & Letterbox.

The DVD has 3 different sizes 4:3Letterbox/4:3 Pan & Scan and 16:9 Widescreen.

On my Old 4:3 TV the Widescreen effect was given by having the Player on Letterbox.

So i assume that i also keep it on this for my New TV.

The question i have is that when i play a Widescreen DVD and the TV is on Zoom or 4:3 i see slightly(Just Slightly'but definately more at the edges) more than when i change the TV to 16:9 or Letterbox.

What i see when the TV is set to 4:3 or Zoom is a Perfect Rectangle in the middle of the screen surrounded on all 4 sides by a few inches of Black Bars.

When the TV is on 16:9 i see something similar to the old Widescreen effect on my old 4:3 TV.I see Black Bars at the Top and Bottom'and the Film plays across the Whole Horizontal Length.The Black bars are quite thick and the Film seems slightly squashed.

When the TV is on Letterbox it seems the Best.The Bars are still present but maybe only an inch thick.Also the film no longer seems squashed.

Whats annoying me is i when i see it played in the first 2 modes i can definately see slightly more at the edges than when it is played in the Latter Modes.

Any ideas ?

Thanx
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-02, 06:11 PM   #19
JimRochester
DVD Talk Legend
 
JimRochester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Rochester, NY. USA
Posts: 12,795
The DVD player should be set to 16:9. It is set to the TV not the material played on it. Set the TV to either 16:9 or letterbox depending on whether the widescreen movie is anamorphic or not. As far as the edges changing, that sounds more like overscan than the actual setting. I always assumed the overscan would remain constant but I'm not sure. It seems as though yours changes with the settings
__________________
Back in 1992 my job was to convince people they needed a cellphone. How things have changed. // Panasonic 58" VIERA Plasma, Pioneer Elite vsx91, SONY s590 375 titles, Toshiba A35 79 titles, Definitive Technologies speakers and supercube sub.// Most wanted BD: Bugsy/DieHard 4(R rated)/Dragnet/PearlHarbor(DC)/(an affordable)Sleepless In Seattle/Timeline/Tin Cup/True Lies/While You Were Sleeping.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-02, 06:53 PM   #20
hachiman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 63
Thanx for all replies.

It seems that Whats happening maybe normal going by the link.

http://www.dvdweb.co.uk/information/anamorphic.htm

It seems if i am reading this right that Widescreen Screens still are not as long as Cinema screens.

Their Screens are ratio 1:85 which means if a 1:85 Widescreen Video/DVD is played it fills the screen perfectly.

But if a 2:35 ratio video/DVD is played it still chops a little of the edges'but you still see most of it.

Is this correct?

Thanx
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-02, 05:50 PM   #21
hachiman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 63
.

Managed to get my 2:35 DVD Fullscreen on a Widescreen TV by having the Player on 16:9 and the TV on Letterbox.

Don't seem to have lost too much on the edges.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-02, 06:21 PM   #22
agent2099
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 718
Re: .

Quote:
Originally posted by hachiman
Managed to get my 2:35 DVD Fullscreen on a Widescreen TV by having the Player on 16:9 and the TV on Letterbox.

Don't seem to have lost too much on the edges.
When will people learn that it's not about filling up your t.v. but getting the full OAR image.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-02, 06:47 PM   #23
hachiman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 63
.

Well People won't Learn unless people like you Teach us Agent2099.

I'm not sure what OAR is so could you Pass some of your Wisdom this way.

Did some experiments as i'm still getting my head round this so please be patient with me.

DVD Player is set to Widescreen 16:9.

Get the Full Movie'but with the bars on all 4 sides on 4:3 and Zoom TV settings.

But it's the next 2 that interested me.

The 16:9 and Letterbox TV Settings'both gave very slightly less on the edges than the Previous 2 settings.

But the Letterbox setting lost some of the Bottom and Top edges too'by filling the screen'compared to the 16:9 setting.

So to see most of the film i want it on 16:9 on the TV'which will fill the screen Horizontally.I may lose a little of the edges compared to the 4:3 and Zoom settings'but unlike the Fullscreen Letterbox setting i won't lose any of the vertical picture.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-02, 02:11 PM   #24
JimRochester
DVD Talk Legend
 
JimRochester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Rochester, NY. USA
Posts: 12,795
A 16:9 TV is actually 1.78:1 ratio. A 1.85:1 should fill it or at the most have tiny black bars. A 2.35:1 movie will still have bars, mine are maybe 2" top and bottom. If it is any more and the people are squished, the image is non-anamorphic so you need to switch to the other setting. If you have a 2.35:1 filling the screen, the people are probably stretched tall. Anything that has to do with the sides has more to do with overscan than ratio. All TV's project a small portion of the available image to the extreme edge of the screen not visible from the front.
__________________
Back in 1992 my job was to convince people they needed a cellphone. How things have changed. // Panasonic 58" VIERA Plasma, Pioneer Elite vsx91, SONY s590 375 titles, Toshiba A35 79 titles, Definitive Technologies speakers and supercube sub.// Most wanted BD: Bugsy/DieHard 4(R rated)/Dragnet/PearlHarbor(DC)/(an affordable)Sleepless In Seattle/Timeline/Tin Cup/True Lies/While You Were Sleeping.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:48 PM.

Rules - DVD Talk - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
Copyright 2011 DVDTalk.com All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.