Release List Reviews Shop Join News DVD Giveaways Video Games Advertise
DVD Reviews | Theatrical Reviews | Price Search Buy Stuff Here
DVD Talk
DVD Reviews DVD Talk Headlines HD Reviews


Add to My Yahoo! - RSS 2.0 - RSS 2.0 - DVD Talk Podcast RSS -


Go Back   DVD Talk Forum > Entertainment Discussions > Comic Book Talk

Comic Book Talk The Place to talk about Comics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-22-17, 03:46 PM   #1
DVD Talk Legend
 
The Valeyard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Building attractions one theme park at a time.
Posts: 10,205
Marvel Legacy - September 2017

Return of Legacy heroes and numbering - Marvel Legacy hits in September before the Make Mine Marvel initiative. Big announcement tomorrow (Friday June 23rd) with more details.


Quote:
Get ready for a new dawn True Believers — one whose rays will touch every corner of the Marvel Universe in the days to come! Tomorrow, get ready for the return of what you’ve been longing for — and more! Prepare for the debut of MARVEL LEGACY!

“A new initiative that will take things back to our iconic history, with a firm eye on the future, MARVEL LEGACY will present stories that remind everyone — newcomers and longtime fans alike — why Marvel stands as the premier name in fiction,” said Editor in Chief Axel Alonso. “Our titles will unearth gems from Marvel’s rich history, remind readers of connections between characters, and usher in the return of some major characters who’ve been missed. Above all else, we want to inject our comics with a massive dose of fun!”

Kicking off this September with MARVEL LEGACY #1, an over-sized 50-page, one-shot special, Marvel Comics titles step towards a bright new future – one that harkens back to what has made Marvel a household name while looking towards tomorrow. With fun and thrilling reveals primed to excite fans, both existing and new, this fall, prepare for MARVEL LEGACY!

Still no FF tho. I'll bet Miracleman is behind everything.
__________________
You must watch my Short film Punching Hitler!

"Well time travel's confusing. I remember tomorrow like it was yesterday."
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-17, 04:20 PM   #2
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 21,622
Re: Marvel Legacy - September 2017

I know that's like three paragraphs of text, but I still don't understand what they're doing. Marvel Rebirth basically?

I mean "remind readers of connections between characters?" Really?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-17, 06:42 PM   #3
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Red Hood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,255
Re: Marvel Legacy - September 2017

I wish Miracleman was the one behind this but it seems that the rights to the character are still in a legal battle, even after the reprints.

This just smells a Marvel Rebirth as fujishig mentioned above. Honestly, I'm a little disappointed by this because I've liked the new characters like Ms. Marvel, Jane Foster Thor, new Iron Man and the Champions. The problem has been that Marvel truly has overloaded on events and tie-ins plus shitty writing and art. They need to stop being so arrogant and reduce the output of comics they do per month. They are so focused on market share that they don't care about the quality of the product. And for the love of God, stop giving Brian Bendis any more titles.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-17, 08:22 PM   #4
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 21,622
Re: Marvel Legacy - September 2017

I personally don't think output is the only problem. They have high quality (IMHO) titles, they have some great creative teams on some relatively obscure characters, but the majority of sales still go to the tried and true, and jump when crossovers happen. So they have this cycle of rebooting, but nearly every single title will degrade in sales with each passing issue, so they cancel and reboot. One can argue that the cycle itself has burned out a lot of comic fans, who are less likely to follow new series they think will be cancelled any day now, but then it becomes a bit circular.

That comment came out a little while ago that got them in trouble, that boiled down to "diversity doesn't sell." I don't think that's true at all and it's been refuted, but I feel like the people who actually buy comics want the status quo back, they want their multiple chase covers, they want their crossovers. Not all of them, mind you, but a significant enough portion.

Also, waiting for the trade has absolutely killed comic book collecting, at least for me. I've literally forced myself to buy individual comics just because I love the format, and nearly every single time I'd have preferred just the collection. Even if I think something is great, like the recent Nova run, my recommendation to someone else would be to wait until it's collected, because who wants to come in in the middle of a story? It's not to go seek out back issues and keep up, which is what I would have said back in the day.

On the other hand, I read Civil War 2 recently and it was absolutely awful as far as plot goes. Art was gorgeous and relatively consistent, which is always a plus especially when Marvel can't seem to keep an artist even for these events, but yeah, classic Bendis stuff when it comes to questionable characterization and motivation.

Last edited by fujishig; 06-22-17 at 08:28 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-17, 09:19 PM   #5
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Red Hood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,255
Re: Marvel Legacy - September 2017

Agree with you on many of those points. I also believe that synergy has affected them immensely. Marvel's push to bring the casual reader has pushed away the loyal fanbase. Regular readers don't want to see movie costumes in the comic books, at least not in the mainstream universes. Even the artist themselves have told me how much they hate having to use the movie costumes for their books. This type of synergy is never good for the industry as the casual reader will come and go but the loyal ones are the ones that get pushed away from reading new stuff when they try to fit movie stuff into canon. Same thing happens with the cartoons. It's pretty obvious how much the quality of the Marvel cartoons dipped from Avengers Earth Mightiest Heroes to Avengers Assemble.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-17, 08:55 AM   #6
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 11,370
Re: Marvel Legacy - September 2017

Really, it's just too much change at this point. I don't collect anymore but I still will go into a shop every once and a while and still read about the industry and Marvel is doing this once a year now. They've completely ruined the X-Men and FF universes because of the movie universe. If I was a reader I'm not sure how I'd keep up.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-17, 09:38 AM   #7
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,161
Re: Marvel Legacy - September 2017

I had stopped buying Marvel some time ago but recently started reading again via graphic novel collections at my County Library. Marvel is very hard to follow as I try to navigate my way through the Library's database. Far too many offshoots of the same characters, -there are way too many flavors or Avengers, X-men, and many other characters to make sense of unless you're deep into it.

I found several titles I liked, but then they'd just abruptly end. On the other hand, I was enjoying "Spider-Man Worldwide", but the last volume brought in characters and situations from other "Spider-Man" books with little orientation, and even several variant characters from other worlds. It just made little sense and made me feel a little ridiculous trying to follow it.

Too many spin-off characters, -2 Thors, 2 Iron Men (sorta), Spider-Gwen, et al, -and too many spin-off titles. I just find it hard to care.

I find the current DC direction more consistent (for the moment), -I'm just reading "Rebirth" titles right now and I'm not terribly lost. Where thet fail is in their artistic choices. Marvel will keep a single artist on the run of a volume (about 6 issues), while DC will have six different artists for those same six issues, and they're not of comparable styles or quality.

Last edited by DWilson; 06-23-17 at 10:57 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-17, 10:04 AM   #8
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,925
Re: Marvel Legacy - September 2017

Apparently Marvel announced yesterday that they will make an announcement today that will be some kind of big deal; I wish Marvel would level down their marketing. It feels like they're much more focused on buffing up and repackaging iconic characters with little regard to actual plot. Sure, I want them to have the coolest looking Hulk ever and a spiffy costume for Thor too but it can also make sense. Even their PR speak is so corny it's unintentionally funny - "Our titles will unearth gems from Marvel’s rich history, remind readers of connections between characters, and usher in the return of some major characters who’ve been missed. Above all else, we want to inject our comics with a massive dose of fun!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWilson View Post
Too many spin-off characters, -2 Thors, 2 Iron Men (sorta), Spider-Gwen, et al, -and too many spin-off titles. I just find it hard too care.
This. Variant characters have gotten really stale. Despite the annoying retcons it was clever when there was a Spider-man clone; but having an entire 'Spider-Verse' of overlapping variant characters to the point that Peter Parker is a sidekick makes my head hurt.




I do just want Wolverine back.
__________________
Horror Challenge: 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010, 2009 | Criterion Challenge: 2012, 2011, 2010
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-17, 12:38 PM   #9
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 21,622
Re: Marvel Legacy - September 2017

Ah but there's the rub. You want your Wolverine back. There are too many spin off characters and it's too confusing. But if you create the same character with no ties to iron man or spider man, nobody will buy it. It could be the greatest comic in the universe and no one will buy it. Because they want more spider-man. Even though they complain there's too much spider-man. And characters can't ever die off because someone will miss them, and the nature of work for hire means someone will eventually come along and reverse what a writer did before unless there's an editorial mandate, and even that changes over time. But then we whine that nothing ever happens. When we don't really want things to happen.

I mean don't get me wrong I'm exactly the same way. I want my Claremont era XMen back, and whenever I pick up a modern x book it takes me a while to reconcile how different these characters are. Shoot, the Guardians of the Galaxy are basically nothing like even the abnett and lanning series they first got together in.

The best superhero stories, to me, are the ones where the writers can truly just write the characters as their own, without blatantly contradicting what went on before. This usually means characters don't act like they used to, but that's fine as long as they're given their own voice. Bendis brought Luke Cage into the forefront in New Avengers and he's a very different Luke Cage than pre Bendis. Hickman crafted what I consider a masterpiece in his Secret Warriors/FF/Avengers runs, and a lot of those characters had different voices that he crafted. You just can't keep characterization consistent over decades and decades of writers writing these characters, but someone is always ticked because they grew up with Byrne FF and now the FF are different. But it happens all the time. Look at all the legendary runs on Daredevil, he's a very different character from Miller to Bendis to Brubaker to Waid.

Of course I'm making broad generalizations that doesn't apply to all comic book fans, and I can understand wanting normal Logan back. Perhaps because I'm still bitter that Nova is all but cancelled. All the fanboys demanded Rich Rider back (including me) and they did just that, and nobody bought the book anyway. Urgh.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-17, 03:06 PM   #10
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Red Hood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,255
Re: Marvel Legacy - September 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
All the fanboys demanded Rich Rider back (including me) and they did just that, and nobody bought the book anyway. Urgh.
Well, even though I was liking it, Marvel kinda pull the rug out of the new Richard Rider book by not promoting it at all. There's someone by the name of Jeph Loeb who doesn't want Rider back as it will take the thunder away from Sam Alexander, who he "created".

The main problem is that Marvel has stayed the course without taking fans feelings into consideration. I understand that a company can't please all fans but being part of the industry as a retailer for the past 2 years have allowed me to see how arrogant they have been. For example, Marvel has given a simple presentation on almost every panel, in which they just talk about their upcoming projects, but they don't talk to retailers at all to get feedback on how things are going. Our big problem is similar as to the one DC had when they launched the New 52: Marvel has too many bi-weekly and monthly titles out there. They have oversaturated the market with Deadpool titles, many of them which haven't been selling at all like Mercs for Money. They have also screwed everyone by delaying their big event books. Secret Wars 7,8 & 9 came out months later after the big relaunch that was supposed to be launched with the last issue of the series. And then, there is the whole Bendis and Dan Slott can do no wrong mentality in the company and the lets phase out the X-Men and FF to spite FOX.

I believe that there are Legacy characters that need to be change by Marvel on every new generation like DC has done with Green Lantern, Flash, Blue Beetle and Robin (which by the way, it sucks Geoff Johns went back an undid these changes). I think characters like Captain Marvel, Ghost Rider, Nova and Phoenix are perfect for this.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-17, 03:47 PM   #11
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 21,622
Re: Marvel Legacy - September 2017

Secret Wars was a cluster, and it seems like a lot of their event books have delays that screw up the schedule. This happens to DC too and I have no idea why.

I have to believe Bendis and Slott still sell, which is why they're still there, though. Are they that universally hated? I thought Civil War II was awful but I think it sold ok. And a lot of their talented writers jump ship to work on their own stuff, which makes perfect sense.

The ironic thing about Johns is that he was like the perfect legacy writer... I mean he pretty much came up with or used new characters to carry on the legacy of the majority of Silver Age heroes in JSA. I could forgive him his hard on for Hal Jordan because Hal turning was actually a terrible story. That's why I felt it must have been a mandate from on high for him to head up the New 52, because it was basically throwing away all that legacy plus getting rid of the JSA and (in modern continuity) Legion of Superheroes, plus the Teen Titans he had worked on. I personally don't mind Jane Thor, little Nova, Miles Spider-man, Ms. Marvel, Cho Hulk, etc., and even though I find some of the concepts dumb (like the time lost original XMen or Spidergwen) as long as they're used well I'm fine with them too.

As an aside I feel like Champions should be a way better book than it currently is. Waid and Ramos could do no wrong for me in Impulse, and I love kid heroes, but the book just doesn't do it for me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-17, 01:58 PM   #12
DVD Talk Legend
 
PhantomStranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Phantom Zone
Posts: 17,833
Re: Marvel Legacy - September 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Hood View Post
Agree with you on many of those points. I also believe that synergy has affected them immensely. Marvel's push to bring the casual reader has pushed away the loyal fanbase. Regular readers don't want to see movie costumes in the comic books, at least not in the mainstream universes. Even the artist themselves have told me how much they hate having to use the movie costumes for their books. This type of synergy is never good for the industry as the casual reader will come and go but the loyal ones are the ones that get pushed away from reading new stuff when they try to fit movie stuff into canon. Same thing happens with the cartoons. It's pretty obvious how much the quality of the Marvel cartoons dipped from Avengers Earth Mightiest Heroes to Avengers Assemble.
I absolutely hate it when movie designs leak into the comics and even the cartoons.

Let's ditch a fan-tested uniform of 30 years for a Hollywood hack's overstylized leather redesign that will be forgotten within 12 months...
__________________
Blu-ray Picture Quality Rankings (last update: July 13, 2017)

Over 5000 Blu-rays ranked by pure video quality.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-17, 04:57 PM   #13
DVD Talk Legend
 
Bronkster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: AnaheimLand, SoCal
Posts: 11,493
Re: Marvel Legacy - September 2017

Maybe it'll be One More Legacy.
__________________
This signature is brought to you by whichever advertiser is currently abusing the page.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-17, 03:45 AM   #14
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,698
Re: Marvel Legacy - September 2017

So all those changes, like the a girl Iron Man, Falcon-as-Captain America, woman-Thor, and She-Huk-as-THE-Hulk are all undone?

They're making a big deal that they're publishing the same characters they've been publishing for the last 70 years?

I don't know how I feel about this.
I got into Marvel when there was a black costumed Spider-man, Beta Ray Bill was Thor, and Iron Man was Jim Rhodes.
Now me personally, I didn't like the recent changes like Falcon being the new Cap, but I wonder if the few actual kids and teenagers that got into Marvel during that time are disappointed.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-17, 05:09 PM   #15
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 21,622
Re: Marvel Legacy - September 2017

I don't think they're reverting anything. In fact, they're changing more things
Spoiler:
hey, it's Punisher in a War Machine armor! Maybe Planet Hulk put. 2 with Cho.
.

Seems like I'm not the only one confused here. They've released some covers which makes it seem like this is all just another rebranding with covers referencing classic covers. And in what seems like just another case of cluelessness on their part, they're relaunching with exactly 52 series. I'm sure someone there thought it would be a clever dig at their rivals, but it really isn't. DC's rebirth actually kicked off with an oversized issue that was pretty affordable, and cut down the number of titles (though also made some bimonthly).

I've been putting off this month's DCBS order, waiting for more news, but it looks more and more like I might not order anything.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:31 PM.


Copyright 2011 DVDTalk.com All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0