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Old 07-18-11, 03:16 PM   #426
stingermck
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

JLA costumes are starting to make sense now, albeit it kinda stupid. Supes is the first hero, and is wearing ceremonial armor with all the pieces and lines. So is everyone else....his costume is the inspiration? Team unification?

I still wonder how much of this entire relaunch is because of the Superman lawsuit.
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Old 07-18-11, 03:22 PM   #427
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Also the Superboy #2 solicit:



Quote:
SUPERBOY #2
Written by SCOTT LOBDELL
Art by RB SILVA and ROB LEAN
Cover by ERIC CANETE
On sale OCTOBER 12 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T
Project N.O.W.H.E.R.E. has put a lot of effort into creating their Superboy, and they intend to make sure he performs to their standards. And what better opportunity for him to demonstrate his raw power than to throw him into an alien prison riot? Good luck, Superboy… you’re going to need it!
Didn't DC say earlier that Superboy would still be a clone of Superman after he was killed by Doomsday? This sounds like a completely new origin to me.
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Old 07-18-11, 03:39 PM   #428
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

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Originally Posted by kgrogers1979 View Post
Also the Superboy #2 solicit:





Didn't DC say earlier that Superboy would still be a clone of Superman after he was killed by Doomsday? This sounds like a completely new origin to me.
Aren't there 2 Superboy's?
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Old 07-18-11, 04:07 PM   #429
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgrogers1979 View Post
So Superman: One More Day is official now. Clark and Lois didn't just break up. They were NEVER married. Good god, didn't DC learn anything at all from Marvel's fiasco? This won't do anything but hurt Superman sales since many readers like myself are now going to abandon the Superman comics until the marriage is put back in place.
We'll miss you!

But seriously... One More Day was IMHO a pathetic "reboot" of Spider-Man's mythology told within the status quo of the Marvel Universe. This is a reboot/relaunch of the entire line. To me, it's a much different scenario.

And while as a social scientist I know that I don't have nearly enough data to make this next point, from what it sounds like in this thread, there are a lot of people who are going to be jumping back on the bandwagon. It seems like DC had the right idea.

The reality is that if Superman books (like Batman and GL) were doing well, they probably would have left much of the premise alone.
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Old 07-18-11, 04:31 PM   #430
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

In case for some reason you're not content to buy all 52 issues, DC is also going to release a hardcover collected edition of all 52 #1 issues. $150.00, 1216 pages. Goes on sale 7 December. I thought it was a joke when I saw Mark Waid re-tweeted a link to this on Twitter, but no, it's real.
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Old 07-18-11, 04:50 PM   #431
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

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Originally Posted by madcougar View Post
One More Day was IMHO a pathetic "reboot" of Spider-Man's mythology told within the status quo of the Marvel Universe. This is a reboot/relaunch of the entire line. To me, it's a much different scenario.
Not exactly. Action is set in the early days of Superman's career, so it makes sense for Lois and Clark not to be married then, but the main Superman title is set in modern day continuity when Damian is Robin and all the different colored Lantern Corps exist. So the main title should still have the marriage. That it doesn't is a retcon just as bad as OMD.




Quote:
And while as a social scientist I know that I don't have nearly enough data to make this next point, from what it sounds like in this thread, there are a lot of people who are going to be jumping back on the bandwagon. It seems like DC had the right idea.

True, DC will gain some new readers from this "reboot" but the question is just how many. Call me skeptical, but I don't think they are going to be gaining many new readers. For one thing, where is the advertising. Outside of the internet I haven't seen any advertising at all. To gain a lot of new readers they should be advertising the heck out of it.

I am sure I won't be the only older reader that quits reading. So unless the amount of new readers gained is more than the amount of older readers lost, the net sales won't improve, and I don't see that happening.

Comic sales have been constantly dwindling for over a decade now. Sure this isn't the only period of time which had lagging comic sales. The 50s and 70s also experienced lagging sales, but those eras also didn't have kids who hated reading and didn't have to compete with tons of video games, movies, and TV shows. Kids will watch superheroes on TV or in the movies or play superhero video games, but they hate actually reading about them. Comic books are becoming a bygone era, and I don't think really think that is going to change anytime soon.
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Old 07-18-11, 05:10 PM   #432
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

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Originally Posted by kgrogers1979 View Post
Call me skeptical, but I don't think they are going to be gaining many new readers. For one thing, where is the advertising. Outside of the internet I haven't seen any advertising at all. To gain a lot of new readers they should be advertising the heck out of it.
Actually, as has been noted in this thread, DC is planning a major advertising campaign including ads on Cartoon Network. Also, Warner DVD releases in the fourth quarter are supposed to include promos for DC Comics--though I don't know if it's been specified whether they mean paper inserts or if there will be commercials on the DVDs.

Quote:
Comic sales have been constantly dwindling for over a decade now. Sure this isn't the only period of time which had lagging comic sales. The 50s and 70s also experienced lagging sales, but those eras also didn't have kids who hated reading and didn't have to compete with tons of video games, movies, and TV shows. Kids will watch superheroes on TV or in the movies or play superhero video games, but they hate actually reading about them. Comic books are becoming a bygone era, and I don't think really think that is going to change anytime soon.
As sad as it is true. I don't believe comics will completely die, if for no other reason than this is how DC will continue to stake its legal claim to certain elements of Superman. I also think we would be remiss to overlook the audience that enjoys the American Splendors, Bones and Strangers in Paradises being published. Their sales figures are admittedly much, much smaller than probably the lowest-selling title at DC or Marvel, but those kinds of comics will likely always be published, even if they're self-published.
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Old 07-18-11, 05:59 PM   #433
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Part of the campaign is supposed to be some sort of preview in theaters, so it's a little bit of a head-scratcher and a little discouraging that DC/Warner didn't have something ready to go for Harry Potter. Especially since that's the idea market: predominantly "younger" audience, many that actually like to read.
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Old 07-18-11, 09:50 PM   #434
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

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Originally Posted by atxbomber View Post
Part of the campaign is supposed to be some sort of preview in theaters, so it's a little bit of a head-scratcher and a little discouraging that DC/Warner didn't have something ready to go for Harry Potter. Especially since that's the idea market: predominantly "younger" audience, many that actually like to read.
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"Younger and more brooding." 'Cause that's what I've always wanted out of Superman. I wonder if he'll shop at Hot Topic.
Is there another Twilight movie coming out?
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Old 07-18-11, 10:32 PM   #435
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

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"Younger and more brooding."
Which is exactly what Superman was in the Earth One book. Wasn't the whole point of Earth One to basically be Ultimate DC with younger and hipper superheroes? What exactly is the point of Earth One now?

Maybe that's what this post-Flashpoint thing will actually be... the Earth One spin-off universe to get everything started, and then the main New Earth universe comes back in a year during Flashback.

One can only hope...
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Old 07-19-11, 02:02 AM   #436
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

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Originally Posted by kgrogers1979 View Post
So Superman: One More Day is official now. Clark and Lois didn't just break up. They were NEVER married. Good god, didn't DC learn anything at all from Marvel's fiasco? This won't do anything but hurt Superman sales since many readers like myself are now going to abandon the Superman comics until the marriage is put back in place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stingermck View Post
JLA costumes are starting to make sense now, albeit it kinda stupid. Supes is the first hero, and is wearing ceremonial armor with all the pieces and lines. So is everyone else....his costume is the inspiration? Team unification?

I still wonder how much of this entire relaunch is because of the Superman lawsuit.
The stuff coming out about Superman now is absolutely soul-crushing to me. I was ambivalent about the reboot before, but the changes to Superman are abysmal. Since his redesign is apparently crucial to this new universe, either the whole reboot is a temporary thing that DC just has not admitted to yet, or they really have gone off the deep end. Never in a million years did I imagine that Smallville's version of Clark would end up as the lynchpin of DC continuity, but that is looking more and more likely.

That lawsuit has to be affecting the Superman changes, it is way too much of a coincidence that DC redesigns the character's entire history a year before they might lose key elements of his background. I wonder if this move was imposed by corporate lawyers to strengthen their position in possible negotiations with the Siegels? There is speculation on other boards that the lawsuit is the only impetus behind the reboot.
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Old 07-19-11, 02:18 AM   #437
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

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True, DC will gain some new readers from this "reboot" but the question is just how many. Call me skeptical, but I don't think they are going to be gaining many new readers. For one thing, where is the advertising. Outside of the internet I haven't seen any advertising at all. To gain a lot of new readers they should be advertising the heck out of it.
They have gotten pretty good press out of it. It was in a recent EW, and it was on the front page of USA Today, which means milliions of people walked by the machine and saw the story without buying or actually reading the paper.

And it's been the most active thread in this forum in quite a while.
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Old 07-19-11, 02:42 AM   #438
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

This is why I stopped reading comics. There's no respect for continuity but you need to know it to understand what the hell is going on. It's the same problem with the X-men. You needed to know 20 years of continuity to understand the comics, but that didn't matter because no one cared about it.

The problem with these franchises now (which is what they are, they stopped being characters long ago) is that no one bothers to commit to the books and keep editorial guidelines.
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Old 07-19-11, 03:33 AM   #439
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

In a way, what they are doing with Superman's marriage is actually worse than what they did with Spider-man's marriage. At least with OMD we got an explanation (albeit a very bad explanation) as to why the marriage was erased. With Superman, we aren't getting any explanation at all. Its just come September and *poof* the marriage is gone.
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Old 07-19-11, 05:35 AM   #440
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Quote:
Originally Posted by atxbomber View Post
Part of the campaign is supposed to be some sort of preview in theaters, so it's a little bit of a head-scratcher and a little discouraging that DC/Warner didn't have something ready to go for Harry Potter. Especially since that's the idea market: predominantly "younger" audience, many that actually like to read.
I could be wrong, but my guess is that they don't want to advertise until the relaunch comics are actually on the shelves. Imagine how confused the Harry Potter crowd would be to go out and buy some DC Comics this week only to find out that none of it matters another six weeks from now. I do, however, believe that the Deathly Hallows, Part 2 DVD and Blu-ray releases will include the aforementioned ads that Warner is supposed to be including in the fourth quarter.

"Oh, look! I got the last Harry Potter DVD for Christmas! Oh, look! I can go download DC Comics to my new iPad!" That's pretty much what I suspect they're hoping is said in a lot of homes this year.
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Old 07-19-11, 10:52 AM   #441
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

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Originally Posted by kgrogers1979 View Post
Not exactly. Action is set in the early days of Superman's career, so it makes sense for Lois and Clark not to be married then, but the main Superman title is set in modern day continuity when Damian is Robin and all the different colored Lantern Corps exist. So the main title should still have the marriage. That it doesn't is a retcon just as bad as OMD.

True, DC will gain some new readers from this "reboot" but the question is just how many. Call me skeptical, but I don't think they are going to be gaining many new readers. For one thing, where is the advertising. Outside of the internet I haven't seen any advertising at all. To gain a lot of new readers they should be advertising the heck out of it.

I am sure I won't be the only older reader that quits reading. So unless the amount of new readers gained is more than the amount of older readers lost, the net sales won't improve, and I don't see that happening.
First, as I stated (and Didio basically has confirmed) if the Superman titles were selling really well, they probably would have left things alone. The reality is that only the Batman and GL titles were selling well. So the fact that DC cherrypicked continuity doesn't surprise me. Fix what's broken and leave what isn't broken alone.

Second, you could be 100 percent right on your assumption that this could be a sales disaster for DC. We won't know until September. My thought is that lots and lots of people will jump on board. The question is, will they stick around past the first few months. Time will tell.

At the end of the day however, this initiative has been a marketing boon for DC. They have basically been the hot topic for two months running on websites like Newsarama. In that respect, this relaunch has been a huge success already. Again, at the end of the day, DC has to put it's money where it's mouth is in regards to quality stories, timliness and a continuity that still makes some sense.
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Old 07-19-11, 11:39 AM   #442
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

The problem with these kinds of changes to Superman is that historically, the character has allowed for only subtle and gradual changes. Hell, having long hair was controversial and it took decades for him to reveal his identity to Lois Lane. Superman Blue and Superman Red was way too much and had to end and revert back to Superman classic. You can screw around with most characters, but for some reason even the audience that doesn't buy Superman comics will resist and reject changes like this so vehemently that they can't stay permanent.

One of the biggest complaints about Superman Returns was the subplot about Lois being married and having that kid. It just felt wrong to a lot of people (myself included). This redesign seems fated for the same rejection.

I think what bugs me about it is that they do have some good ideas regarding Superman. Scaling back his powers is an important step. And I think there's a lot of ground to be covered in exploring Kal-El as opposed to Clark Kent. Even undoing the marriage and starting the characters back over again isn't inherently a bad decision (though I'd like to see someone make a superhero marriage work just once!). Being young and inexperienced doesn't excite me, but whatever. The rest--and I admit it's predominantly the actual look of the character--is nonsense. Jeans and a silly little cape? Really? Are they designing for the cheapest Halloween costume they can imagine?
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Old 07-19-11, 12:20 PM   #443
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

I'm really looking forward to Action being set in the past. Is there a Batman book that is similarly set in the past?
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Old 07-19-11, 12:30 PM   #444
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

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I'm really looking forward to Action being set in the past. Is there a Batman book that is similarly set in the past?
I don't believe so. While listing the ideas I think are good about this stuff with Superman, I forgot to mention having one title set in the past. That was one of the elements that I enjoyed most about Legends of the Dark Knight back in the day; it gave me one title a month that wasn't going to crossover with the others, and I felt like it was covering an entirely different part of Batman. I think Action Comics readers will similarly appreciate having a Superman series clearly distinct from the other titles.
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Old 07-19-11, 12:35 PM   #445
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

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DiDio admitted that one of the motivations for rebooting Superman was the fact that the last time it was done — by John Byrne in the mid-1980's after Crisis on Infinite Earths — the Superman comic was a huge success.
Lengthy interviews with Dido and Lee

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dcnu...52-110719.html
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dcnu...es-110718.html
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Old 07-19-11, 07:01 PM   #446
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Six page preview of Justice League #1

http://comics.cosmicbooknews.com/con...stice-league-1
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Old 07-19-11, 08:34 PM   #447
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

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Old 07-19-11, 09:08 PM   #448
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Ah, I wanted an in-continuity version of All-Star Batman and Robin.
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Old 07-20-11, 03:25 AM   #449
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

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Six page preview of Justice League #1

http://comics.cosmicbooknews.com/con...stice-league-1
Batman sweating is a nice touch. That first exchange with Hal is pretty good, too. Art looks nice, too.

The complaint I have is that this is six full pages and we've learned just about nothing. This does not appear to address the widespread complaint that stories are stretched over too many issues that are quickly read because there's so little actual story. I don't expect every page to have twelve panels and fifty word balloons but this is a quarter of the entire first issue. I feel like we should know more by the end of page six than this.
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Old 07-20-11, 05:50 AM   #450
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

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The complaint I have is that this is six full pages and we've learned just about nothing. This does not appear to address the widespread complaint that stories are stretched over too many issues that are quickly read because there's so little actual story. I don't expect every page to have twelve panels and fifty word balloons but this is a quarter of the entire first issue. I feel like we should know more by the end of page six than this.
Stan Lee wrote Spider-man's complete origin in six pages in Amazing Fantasy #15. Six pages of the new Justice League #1, and the only thing that happens is Batman chasing a parademon and running into Green Lantern.

If DC really wants to reach the masses they need to get away from story decompression because most people aren't going to be willing to spend $20 and wait half a year to get a completed story. Writing for trade paperback mentality is part of the reason sales have been declining. We need to return to the days of shorter arcs, no more than three issues per arc.
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