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Old 08-16-10, 11:24 AM   #1
dvd-4-life
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Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

As a kid growing up in the 60s-I always bought DC comics and shunned Marvel Comics. Didn't like the art work(looked rushed). Been reading that Jack Kirby did 4 books a month(maybe thats the reason). Now that I recently bought a few Marvel Essentials-the opinion stays the same. Maybe there second tier of Superheroes was kinda on the weak side. Was Beast/The Thing and The Incredible Hulk the same character? Was Mr. Fantastic a rip-off of PlasticMan/ElongatedMan? I still plan on buying Amazing Spider-man Vol 1 Omnibus along with Fantastic Four Vol Omnibus Vol1, but besides that-think I will stay with buying DC Comic book material.
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Old 08-16-10, 01:09 PM   #2
fujishig
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

Uh... ok.

i don't get this part of your post:

Quote:
Was Beast/The Thing and The Incredible Hulk the same character? Was Mr. Fantastic a rip-off of PlasticMan/ElongatedMan?
Are you saying they were written the same in the 60s or something? I haven't read those issues in a long time, but I swear that the Beast (on X-men), the Thing, and the Hulk were all written differently, and as a character Reed Richards was not the same as Plastic Man or Elongated Man...
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Old 08-16-10, 01:59 PM   #3
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

Rip-off is a harsh word. The power-sets for super heroes were not really that creative back then (or now really...) and

I think you need to look at personality, costume and secret identity as well as power sets to decide if someone is a copy. Batman and Moon Knight is a better example of a copy.
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Old 08-16-10, 02:46 PM   #4
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

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Originally Posted by dvd-4-life View Post
As a kid growing up in the 60s-I always bought DC comics and shunned Marvel Comics. Didn't like the art work(looked rushed). Been reading that Jack Kirby did 4 books a month(maybe thats the reason). Now that I recently bought a few Marvel Essentials-the opinion stays the same. Maybe there second tier of Superheroes was kinda on the weak side. Was Beast/The Thing and The Incredible Hulk the same character? Was Mr. Fantastic a rip-off of PlasticMan/ElongatedMan? I still plan on buying Amazing Spider-man Vol 1 Omnibus along with Fantastic Four Vol Omnibus Vol1, but besides that-think I will stay with buying DC Comic book material.
If you are comparing their superhero powers only, then I think you are missing the big picture and what made Marvel great in the 60's: the alter-egos. The stories of Bruce Banner, Peter Parker, Ben Grimm, etc were the main focus. The way the X-men face prejudice was a lot of times more interesting than their battles. Marvel did in the 60's something that DC didn't: make these superheroes relate more to normal human beings like the readers. While a lot of kids wanted to be Superman because of their powers, they also related to the teen struggles of Peter Parker, to being considered ugly by people like Ben Grimm, or just rejected for being born different, like the X-men.
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Old 08-16-10, 03:43 PM   #5
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

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If you are comparing their superhero powers only, then I think you are missing the big picture and what made Marvel great in the 60's: the alter-egos. The stories of Bruce Banner, Peter Parker, Ben Grimm, etc were the main focus. The way the X-men face prejudice was a lot of times more interesting than their battles. Marvel did in the 60's something that DC didn't: make these superheroes relate more to normal human beings like the readers. While a lot of kids wanted to be Superman because of their powers, they also related to the teen struggles of Peter Parker, to being considered ugly by people like Ben Grimm, or just rejected for being born different, like the X-men.
At least Marvel has made little change with their superheroes,while DC changes just about everything at the drop of a hat. Who knows how many times they've changed Aquaman(Submariner rip-off???)? Plus DC now is just a two trick pony(Superman/Batman) with little too offer after that. Marvel takes chances,while DC only worries about the bottom line. They are afraid to come out with a Flash or Green Lantern animated series,God forbid ,it might be successful. Don't understand the popularity of the Incredible Hulk. Seems pissed off all the time. Maybe they are gearing him to turn into a villain.
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Old 08-16-10, 08:36 PM   #6
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

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Originally Posted by dvd-4-life View Post
At least Marvel has made little change with their superheroes,while DC changes just about everything at the drop of a hat. Who knows how many times they've changed Aquaman(Submariner rip-off???)? Plus DC now is just a two trick pony(Superman/Batman) with little too offer after that. Marvel takes chances,while DC only worries about the bottom line. They are afraid to come out with a Flash or Green Lantern animated series,God forbid ,it might be successful. Don't understand the popularity of the Incredible Hulk. Seems pissed off all the time. Maybe they are gearing him to turn into a villain.
UH... what?

Marvel just went about changing a ton of things about the Marvel Universe, with House of M, Civil War, Skrull Invasion, Dark Reign, Age of Heroes. etc. See the Brand New Day thread for Spidey. See the Dark Daredevil stuff, FrankenCastle, etc. See the cosmic stuff starting with Annihilation. I hardly recognize the X-men anymore. If anything, DC is guilty of wanting to go back to pre-Crisis days with a lot of their continuity.

Or are you talking about the 60s again?

Flash or Green Lantern animated series? What? There's a GL movie coming out, what more do you want? And I haven't read Incredible Hulk in a long time, but isn't being mad his gimmick anyway?

DC has dropped the ball on a lot of their titles in many, many ways, but I don't understand your complaints.
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Old 08-16-10, 08:53 PM   #7
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

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1960's Marvel Comics are, without a second of hesitation or doubt, the best comics ever produced by a comic book company.
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Old 08-16-10, 08:55 PM   #8
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

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Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
UH... what?

Marvel just went about changing a ton of things about the Marvel Universe, with House of M, Civil War, Skrull Invasion, Dark Reign, Age of Heroes. etc. See the Brand New Day thread for Spidey. See the Dark Daredevil stuff, FrankenCastle, etc. See the cosmic stuff starting with Annihilation. I hardly recognize the X-men anymore. If anything, DC is guilty of wanting to go back to pre-Crisis days with a lot of their continuity.

Or are you talking about the 60s again?

Flash or Green Lantern animated series? What? There's a GL movie coming out, what more do you want? And I haven't read Incredible Hulk in a long time, but isn't being mad his gimmick anyway?

DC has dropped the ball on a lot of their titles in many, many ways, but I don't understand your complaints.
Marvel Comics are absolutely unreadable these days. They change their status quo every 5 minutes, each worse than the last. After 30 years of faithful reading, I gave up reading Marvel earlier this year. I have little to no interest in the crappy Bendis/Millar/Loeb-verse. Mostly Bendis. Shitty, repetitive, overrated writer if there ever was one.

DC isn't much better either. But I like the characters more, so it hurts more.

I'm mostly reading indies these days. Invincible is easily the best superhero comic on the market.
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Old 08-17-10, 11:38 AM   #9
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

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Marvel Comics are absolutely unreadable these days. They change their status quo every 5 minutes, each worse than the last. After 30 years of faithful reading, I gave up reading Marvel earlier this year. I have little to no interest in the crappy Bendis/Millar/Loeb-verse. Mostly Bendis. Shitty, repetitive, overrated writer if there ever was one.
You think Marvel would learn after so many misfires, but now I read more bullshit coming from them

Spoiler:
The Shadowland saga on Daredevil will end the series. Then, in 2011, they are going to come back with Daredevil #1. Seriously. Why the fuck do they feel that starting with a #1 will improve things? Doesn't Marvel understand that readers care about story first, art second and legacy third. The 3 things are very important and to me a high number on a comic book means that the character has a rich history worth looking for since the comic books have stayed in print for so long.
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Old 08-17-10, 02:36 PM   #10
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

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Originally Posted by dvd-4-life View Post
Plus DC now is just a two trick pony(Superman/Batman) with little too offer after that. Marvel takes chances,while DC only worries about the bottom line. They are afraid to come out with a Flash or Green Lantern animated series,God forbid ,it might be successful.
I couldn't believe they did this

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Old 08-17-10, 02:51 PM   #11
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

Civil War, Secret Invasion, Siege, Heroic Age, Dark Avengers, New Avengers, Mighty Avengers, Secret Avengers, Norman Osborn runs the Marvel Universe, Osborn is NOT running the Marvel Universe, Iron Man is head of SHIELD, Iron Man is an outlaw... I'm sick of all of Marvel's bullshit.

And as far as DC being a two-trick pony (Superman/Batman), I'd like to point out that the biggest comics event of the year was Darkest Night, and before that the Sinestro Corps War. GL is much more high-profile than anything else comic out of DC Comics. But I'm almost as over DC as I am Marvel.
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Old 08-17-10, 02:52 PM   #12
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

Yep, Matt Murdock will be "killed off" at the end of the series. His replacement choices are to wear the horns are... Gambit, Kraven the Hunter, Nova, Battle-Star and Black Panther.

I kid you not. Not one of them has history with the character or makes any logical sense. My picks would be...

Punisher
Paladin
Iron Fist
Bengal
Moon Knight

My comic book store was littered with little fliers about it.

Last edited by Navinabob; 08-17-10 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 08-17-10, 03:02 PM   #13
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

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Originally Posted by dvd-4-life View Post
They are afraid to come out with a Flash or Green Lantern animated series,God forbid ,it might be successful.
Green Lantern animated series is coming out in 2011 from Cartoon Network.

Also, DC's animated output is far superior to Marvel's. Granted, there's a ton of Superman/Batman product, but there's also been Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, and New Frontier (which was primarily based around Martian Manhunter, Flash, Wonder Woman, and GL). Plus those awesome Spectre and Jonah Hex shorts.

Unfortunately, the market dictates that if it doesn't have Superman or Batman in it, it doesn't sell as well. Which is a shame, because the Wonder Woman animated movie was the best of the lot, and they've mostly been great (except for Superman/Doomsday and Public Enemies). I'd love to see a Flash movie, Legion of Super-Heroes "Great Darkness Saga", or modern-day Justice Society.
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Old 08-17-10, 03:19 PM   #14
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

I like the Planet Hulk and Hulk Vs. movies they did. They both rank up there with the good DC stuff... the rest from marvel is "meh" at best.
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Old 08-17-10, 03:26 PM   #15
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

I stopped reading mainstream super hero comics a long time ago. I think the Ultimate Marvel Comics are better than the regular ones at this point, but by now even that is pretty messed up. If I'm going to read superhero comics now, I prefer to read isolated story arcs or alternate/what if stories.
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Old 08-17-10, 05:27 PM   #16
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

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Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
Yep, Matt Murdock will be "killed off" at the end of the series. His replacement choices are to wear the horns are... Gambit, Kraven the Hunter, Nova, Battle-Star and Black Panther.

I kid you not. Not one of them has history with the character or makes any logical sense. My picks would be...

Punisher
Paladin
Iron Fist
Bengal
Moon Knight

My comic book store was littered with little fliers about it.
Nova? The cosmic one, or is there yet another Nova (besides the ex-herald of Galactus). This also makes no sense considering Iron Fist was the replacement last time anyway. And how is Battle-Star?

As far as #1s go, we can complain all we want but the title will no doubt get a boost in sales because of it, which is exactly why they do it.

And yeah, DC's cartoon universe has been amazing. Even with Superman and Batman in them, stuff like JLU and Brave and the Bold have so many obscure characters showing up, it boggles the mind. We got an anime-lite version of the Wolfman/Perez team of Teen Titans with a bunch of cameos there as well. The aforementioned Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes, which I have yet to see (did that ever come out on dvd?). They had a Krypto cartoon, for crying out loud...
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Old 08-17-10, 05:31 PM   #17
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

The greatest era is DC 1950s.
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Old 08-17-10, 09:07 PM   #18
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

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The greatest era is DC 1950s.
I tell you what. I preferred the "Batman fighting aliens on giant typewriters" era long before Grant Morrison wanted to bring it back. There were some imaginative stories back then. Everyone wanted to write the next "Dark Knight" for 20 years after 1986. It got so repetitive and derivative, I wanted to hurl buckets of donuts.

And if I had my druthers... and I don't... and if it were under my control, I'd want the next Superman movie to be a late 50s/early 60s period piece, taking its cue from Silver Age Mort Weisenger/Curt Swan. Pah.
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Old 08-17-10, 10:04 PM   #19
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

Superman meets Mad Men!
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Old 08-17-10, 10:06 PM   #20
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

Totally agree about old Marvel stories. I just cant read them, so damn wordy. I believe it was Stan who said each issue was written for a new reader picking the book up for the first time. But damn, do I need to see a panel of someone walking down a hallway, with the caption saying they are walking down the hallway, with a thought balloon confirming both.

I guess i just prefer the fun of DC Silver Age.

Current Marvel is pretty rough too, but I do enjoy PunisherMax, current X-Men, and Secret Avengers.

Just read Marvel is ending Daredevil at issue #512, after Shadowland. I'm sure they will have a shiny #1 soon with Gambit or someone.
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Old 08-18-10, 10:38 AM   #21
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

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The greatest era is DC 1950s.
Yep and I thought that I was the only one who loved Sci-Fi Batman. Don't know why DC shunned that era for Batman with there DC Showcase line.
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Old 08-18-10, 01:57 PM   #22
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

I know this is more from the 70's, but I just stumbled today with the Marvel character D-Man. Couldn't they have been more lazier?

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Old 08-19-10, 10:47 AM   #23
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

I feel it is incredibly disengenuous for fans to gripe about new #1 issues, when those are ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS the ones that sell the best. Barring exceptions like Jim Lee/Jeph Loeb on Batman, new #1s always give titles a bump, and these companies are in the business of making money.

However, if the story is the most important aspect, what does it matter what number is on the cover? That is something I've never understood -- the griping about renumbering. It's totally unnecessary, sure, but I could not care less. The history is still the history.
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Old 08-19-10, 03:37 PM   #24
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

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1960's Marvel Comics are, without a second of hesitation or doubt, the best comics ever produced by a comic book company.
I agree (though I have a soft spot for 1950's Fawcett!).

Early Marvel artwork is admittedly a bit primitive but, even at 4 a month, Kirby was better than everyone else. Hit art does change and look more polished as the Fantastic Four series progresses and Joe Sinnott gets take the inking reins over. Also, Kirby brought unrivaled creativity to the Fantastic Four (and his other Marvel work as well) until he became disenfranchised with the endeavor and refused to create new, meaningful characters for them. Remember that you're reading this stuff 50 years + after the fact. The Marvel Universe was being created on the fly. Characters as significant as Galactus, the Inhumans, Silver Surfer, and more woud just show up, month after month. It really was something else.

dvd-4-life, please do post your reactions after reading the Omnibuses. Those Ditko Spider-Man comics are, IMO, at the top of the all-time best list. The FF too, but I'm a bigger fan of the comics in the 2nd FF Omnibus, you should try to read those too. Go to the Essential volumes if you have too (obviously they'll be cheaper too). Good luck & have fun.
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Old 10-09-10, 11:25 AM   #25
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Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

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The Marvel Universe was being created on the fly. Characters as significant as Galactus, the Inhumans, Silver Surfer, and more woud just show up, month after month. It really was something else..
I still have all those key issues of FF. I sometimes like to pull stuff out just to look at them and I now find they were horribly written and drawn. Their a chore to read and really not that good. Most people see them through rose colored glasses and think their the best things ever to come out but honestly they don't hold up to the test of time. The later writers and artist that added onto the mythos are the ones that actually made the characters interesting. Saying that I love the fact I own a piece of comic book history.



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