Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)

[mrhan]

Originally Posted by fujishig

You left at the right time (maybe even a bit too late). It started going downhill, IMHO, around Titan's Hunt. I liked the concept behind Team Titans (and the early Dodsen art) but then they decided that Monarch or whatever was behind it and destroyed that book. Then they did the whole "Atom is a teenager with a bunch of new people" as the Teen Titans, Byrne massively screwed up Donna in his Wonder Woman run, they reformed the real Titans but eventually they destroyed Young Justice to create a new, younger Teen Titans penned by Johns, which went to heck when he left and hasn't been good since. But I still collect it. I blame Wolfman and Perez. Did I mention they hired some Gossip Girl writer to pen the series, despite her having very little comic work and being universally reviled by fans of the series? How far the Teen Titans, who once were at the top of the sales charts over Uncanny, have fallen.

I'm glad I left; I don't know anything about the events your describing. It sounds so convoluted now. Well, at least I can go back to rereading the old stuff and be satisfied with it. BTW, do you know why they never did a 2nd issue of the X-Men/Teen Titans team up? I remember reading something about it years ago but it never happened.

[Navinabob]

Originally Posted by mrhan

Your welcome. BTW, I noticed your from the Bay Area, too. You know of any good comic stores in your area that carry a good selection of GA, SA, or BA books? Thanks.

My local store R&K Comics in Sunnyvale has an ok selection but nothing I'd say deserves a road trip. I find I get the best bargains and selection when I go down to WonderCon in San Francisco every year. each year I try and fill in one or two more holes in my Daredevil collection.

[mrhan]

Originally Posted by Navinabob

My local store R&K Comics in Sunnyvale has an ok selection but nothing I'd say deserves a road trip. I find I get the best bargains and selection when I go down to WonderCon in San Francisco every year. each year I try and fill in one or two more holes in my Daredevil collection.

I'm not too far from there; just down the road on 101 in SJ. I use to go to the original R&K stores way back in the 80's and early 90's. They were just down the road from each other on El Camino. Then I heard it combined with the Big Guys in Mountain View to make way for one big store. I've recently started going to Heroes in Campbell again and they have a decent back issue section. Although, I've heard that R&K is having a sale on back issues. Is that still going on? I haven't had a chance to swing by yet.

Thanks for the info. I'll most likely go to the WonderCon @ Moscone when that happens. Isn't there suppose to be one in San Jose, too?

[Navinabob]

Really? Small world. R&K always has a 50% off sale going on it seems. They just moved a few stores down into a bigger area where they are going to add a lot more back-issues. I've been to Heroes a few times for Magic cards.

I've seen nothing on a San Jose WonderCon yet, but SF is always a fun day. I'll post when it come up and maybe we can try and see if any other DVDTalkers are gonna attend.

[JasonF]

Originally Posted by Suprmallet

I can see your point, but that's a bad analogy, as movies of the 40's often do stand up to The Godfather. Also I'd say Sandman is the top comic of all time. I only used it as an example because I just finished re-reading it.

So let's be more fair and take Claremont's run on X-Men. Claremont brought a level of sophistication and emotional connection to the series that was thoroughly absent in the 60's run (imo). The obvious example is the Dark Phoenix Saga, but even beyond that Claremont really brought out a lot in the team. And if you're looking for good examples of ham-fisted writing in 60's titles, X-Men is full of it. I recall in one of the first issues, Jean Grey telling Professor X not to worry about the team going on a mission, and Xavier says to himself in a thought bubble, "As if I can't help but be worried about the woman I love! But I can never tell her how I feel!" I mean, come on, how corny can you get?

Another good example of how the writing got better after the 60's is Miller's run on Daredevil. The 60's comics were great for laying the foundation of what we know and love today, but the actual mechanics of the stories were often clunky, with cheesy dialogue that said too much in a medium where less is more.

Oh, sure. Pick Daredevil and X-Men -- the two worst books Silver Age Marvel published.

Kidding aside, I'd hold Silver Age Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, and Thor up against the great runs on those titles we've had since then. Some of the dialogue may be corny by modern standards, but try and go back and read the Claremont dialogue from the 80s -- it's stilted in a different way from Lee's 60s dialogue, but it reads just as unnaturally. And in 20 years, Bendis's dialogue will be hard to read compared to whatever is current in 2030.

[Josh-da-man]

Originally Posted by Suprmallet

I can see your point, but that's a bad analogy, as movies of the 40's often do stand up to The Godfather. Also I'd say Sandman is the top comic of all time. I only used it as an example because I just finished re-reading it.

I find that comics from the late 80s like Watchmen, Sandman, Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol, and Matt Wagner's Grendel still stand up after twenty years. They seem as fresh and brilliant as they did two decades ago.

But others, like Claremont's X-Men, don't seem as good to me as they did back when I was reading them as they were coming out. I still have a fondness for the title, but it tends to get repetitive (claws that'll cut through anything and bones that can't be broken, the totality of my psychic powers, I'm the best there is at what I do, etc.) when read in large chunks, and there were a shitload of plot threads left dangling after Claremont got sacked. Even so, by the time John Byrne started drawing the book, you can tell it was just blowing away everything else from Marvel and DC back then.

Just got around to reading Miller's Daredevil and Starlin's Warlock a few years ago and found myself disappointed with both. Warlock, I thought, was almost incomprehensible (never into the more cosmic side of Marvel), and I was likewise a bit let down by Miller's DD. I went into DD knowing what would happen, so I felt like I already knew the story intimately, and that may be that's why it didn't live up to my expectations.

[mrhan]

Originally Posted by Navinabob

Really? Small world. R&K always has a 50% off sale going on it seems. They just moved a few stores down into a bigger area where they are going to add a lot more back-issues. I've been to Heroes a few times for Magic cards.

I've seen nothing on a San Jose WonderCon yet, but SF is always a fun day. I'll post when it come up and maybe we can try and see if any other DVDTalkers are gonna attend.

Yeah, that would be cool. Never met anyone from this forum in person. I think I will head on over to R&K and check out their back issues. 50% off sounds tempting.

[Navinabob]

I'd call and ask for Danjer (408) 732-8775 before you make a trip out there. Unless you just like visiting random shops...

http://www.comicsconspiracy.biz/ is also around the corner. The store is sorta small... but they do a lot of collectibles there.

[mrhan]

Originally Posted by Navinabob

I'd call and ask for Danjer (408) 732-8775 before you make a trip out there. Unless you just like visiting random shops...

http://www.comicsconspiracy.biz/ is also around the corner. The store is sorta small... but they do a lot of collectibles there.

I'll probably just swing by; my kids have been begging me to take them to the Toys R Us there. We haven't been to that one in awhile. Is it still haunted? I'm assuming you know that lot was once an old indian burial ground; at least that's what I heard when I was a kid. LOL

I remember there were also 2 other comics stores behind the SunnyvaleTown Center. One was next to a biker bar on the street where Rooster T. Feather is on and another across from Macys. I can't recall their names, though. I'm sure their not there anymore.

[Navinabob]

Yep, both are long dead.

And yep, that is the famous haunted Toy r Us. Unsolved Mysteries did an episode on it even...so it has to be true!

[Supermallet]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

Yes, I've read all of those and I wasn't pulled in by the stories. Just not gripping enough for me. Dark Phoenix is one of the most overrated storylines as well. I just don't get what's so great about it.

I think you're biased because you can't respect The Blob for his weight problems.

[JasonF]

Originally Posted by mrhan

I'll probably just swing by; my kids have been begging me to take them to the Toys R Us there. We haven't been to that one in awhile. Is it still haunted? I'm assuming you know that lot was once an old indian burial ground; at least that's what I heard when I was a kid. LOL

Oh, man. When I was a kid, I had a That's Incredible book and one of the stories in it was about that Toys R Us. I haven't thought about that stuff in 25 years.

[toddly6666]

Originally Posted by Lemmy

I agree. And I'll take it a step further and speak Marvel blasphemy: I hate the X-Men, period. Never liked the stories, and hated every character, pretty much. I only ever read them because they tied into so many other books/plots that I did like to read. Too many fucking guest appearances just to sell a book.

What makes all this obscenely bizarre: I liked all three movies just fine. Maybe because I didn't know/care about the characters in the comics enough to know (or care) if they weren't done correctly on the screen. But every copy of every Fantastic Four movie should be burned, including Corman's.

I think there is only one good X-men comic and that is:

Claremont's God Loves, Man Kills

Originally Posted by Suprmallet

I think you're biased because you can't respect The Blob for his weight problems.

I love the blob. If you are gonna be fat, you should be a superhero!

[mrhan]

Originally Posted by Lemmy

What makes all this obscenely bizarre: I liked all three movies just fine. Maybe because I didn't know/care about the characters in the comics enough to know (or care) if they weren't done correctly on the screen.

I liked the movies with the exception of the third one. That one was all over the place. People have to understand the fact that things have to be changed to accomodate a different media. Those fanboys who complained should just stick to the early 90's cartoon. They were more true to the comics than the movies.

Originally Posted by JasonF

Oh, man. When I was a kid, I had a That's Incredible book and one of the stories in it was about that Toys R Us. I haven't thought about that stuff in 25 years.

Thanks for that. I haven't seen that since it aired. Like I stated earlier; as a kid the story that went around was it was an indian burial ground. I think that would have made for a more interesting story.

[Navinabob]

Oh man, great vid. You gotta love Sylvia Browne... Omega Douchey is that gal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPBU-nwBEjw

[JumpCutz]

Originally Posted by mrhan

Compared to Adams "realistic" style most of the art from the 60's just paled in comparison. He elevated the artform so high that imho no one even came close; not in the 60's when he started or even today. Most if not all comic book artist today put him in the #1 spot as their favorite or most influencial artist to ever draw a comic book

Bolded for the truth.

To this day, I still pour over my extensive collection of Neal Adam's Silver Age comics in awe and amazement. His work was so ridiculously far ahead of the curve.

[mrhan]

Originally Posted by JumpCutz

Bolded for the truth.

To this day, I still pour over my extensive collection of Neal Adam's Silver Age comics in awe and amazement. His work was so ridiculously far ahead of the curve.

I was 8 years old in 1973 and even then I knew I was looking at something totally different from every other artist out there. I remember being disappointed for buying a cover done by Adams and seeing that he didn't do the story. Hey, I was 8 and if a comic had an Adams cover I would just buy it. Later, when I was a teenager I bought everything he did. Just because he did the cover for this issue it's worth a lot.

[JasonF]

Adams was great, but if you're talking about late Silver-Age realism, nobody beats Steranko.

[mrhan]

Originally Posted by JasonF

Adams was great, but if you're talking about late Silver-Age realism, nobody beats Steranko.

I do like Steranko's art but Adam's anatomy still looks a bit more realistic. He was bold enough to say "If superheroes were real; they would look exactly like the way I draw them." I haven't heard anyone dispute that yet.

[gmanca]

Originally Posted by mrhan

I'll probably just swing by; my kids have been begging me to take them to the Toys R Us there. We haven't been to that one in awhile. Is it still haunted? I'm assuming you know that lot was once an old indian burial ground; at least that's what I heard when I was a kid. LOL

I remember there were also 2 other comics stores behind the SunnyvaleTown Center. One was next to a biker bar on the street where Rooster T. Feather is on and another across from Macys. I can't recall their names, though. I'm sure their not there anymore.

Funny there are people from this part of the South Bay; used to go to R&K near Longs for many years as wells as Brian's Books near Kiely in Santa Clara, Comics Conspiracy, Heroes, and some smaller shops like the first Black Cat Comics in the Captiol Plaza on Capitol and McKee.

Never saw the one near Rooster T. Feathers; did go to the one on Murphy Street down by the Mira Mar Bar Side.

It's often cheaper to get stuff on the internet when it comes to the really old backstock than the shops around here so I stopped going to them.

My sister knew someone who worked at the Toys R Us and would constantly have to clean-up/de-activate errant toys. I remember being there past closing time and it was an awfully creepy experience and I hadn't known about it being haunted until way later on.

[davidh777]

I grew up in the South Bay too--Cupertino. The last time I kept up with floppies was in high school when I used to go to ComicScene on Stevens Creek by Lawrence Expressway. When I go back these days, there's a good shop in the empty shell that used to be Vallco Fashion Park (I think it's called Cupertino Park now).

[Navinabob]

Originally Posted by davidh777

I grew up in the South Bay too--Cupertino. The last time I kept up with floppies was in high school when I used to go to ComicScene on Stevens Creek by Lawrence Expressway. When I go back these days, there's a good shop in the empty shell that used to be Vallco Fashion Park (I think it's called Cupertino Park now).

It's called Legends. They have a really good board-game & role-playing game section as well as a great spread on new books. Just about zero back issues.

[mrhan]

Originally Posted by gmanca

Funny there are people from this part of the South Bay; used to go to R&K near Longs for many years as wells as Brian's Books near Kiely in Santa Clara, Comics Conspiracy, Heroes, and some smaller shops like the first Black Cat Comics in the Captiol Plaza on Capitol and McKee.

The one on Capitol and McKee wasn't called Black Cat when it first opened in the early 80's. It was on the opposite side of the plaza before it ended up behind Montgomery Wards. Neither is there now. It's a Target store today. Damn, I hate it when I can't remember names. Now it's gonna bother me for the rest of the day.

[Navinabob]

Cosmic Comics was the shop in Sunnyvale on Murphy Street. That came to me last night.

[mrhan]

Originally Posted by Navinabob

Cosmic Comics was the shop in Sunnyvale on Murphy Street. That came to me last night.

Wasn't that the shop that was run by some hippy lady and her husband? That's the one I was probably thinking of that was near Rooster T's. Wasn't it between a bar and a Chinese restaurant or was it a Mexican restaurant. It's been so long.....