Ultimate Marvel...should I keep reading it?

[Lemmy]

I must start by saying that I'm a Silver Age fan, Jack-n-Stan all the way. But in the early 90's I lost interest due to all the special editions, etc, that weren't all that special. Another factor was the rise in popularity of the X-Men. I always hated them, considering them, at best, B-grade characters. But when the Ultimate Universe began, I followed all of those titles once again...and only in hardcover or trade paperback if not available in hardcover. I loved The Ultimates, and Ultimate Spider-Man. I read the rest just to keep up with continuity....but now, after all the complaints about Ultimatum....I'm wondering, should I get out while I've got just so many $ invested? Or should I give the new direction a shot, even though all the fans seem to hate it?

Any comments will be appreciated.

[Graftenberg]

If you havn't read Ultimatum feel free to skip as it was pure trash but the new number 1's are excellent. And Ulitmate Spider-Man is still one of the best books on the stands.

[gglass4269]

yes. get out now while you still can. its a sinking ship man

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by Graftenberg

If you havn't read Ultimatum feel free to skip as it was pure trash but the new number 1's are excellent. And Ulitmate Spider-Man is still one of the best books on the stands.

But, see, that's the thing....I'm such a completist, I've GOT to read it. But if it's just bad, and screws up the UMU (which I'm guessing it has from all the characters they have killed off that I've heard about), I don't think I'll continue buying. I mean, a tidal wave that knocks down much of NYC?!? That shit would take years to clean up, and would be a health hazard to live in for at least a decade...but I've skimmed some books (without buying), and I can't suspend my disbelief that much, I'm sorry. I enjoyed The Ultimates I & II, but I almost couldn't get into the second one because of the massive destruction in all those cities. It was (almost) too much.

[boredsilly]

From what I understand Ultimate Spidey is the same book, it just has a new name.

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by boredsilly

From what I understand Ultimate Spidey is the same book, it just has a new name.

But don't they have that new artist, whose stuff looks like anime? The same guy that did the last (and by far, worst) Ult-Spidey Annual?

[hitman tommy]

Yeah Bendis is still writing it but Lafuente is doing the art. Can't say I like the art at all. He draws Peter Parker with a reverse mullet. I"m going to keep reading it but if they don't change artists soon I may be dropping it.

[boredsilly]

If you don't like the art, that's one thing, but I was just saying that the new series caries along the torch of the old, apparently being affected little by Ultimatum. I don't read it, so I can't comment one way or the other.

[Superboy]

I dropped the Ultimate universe like a hot potato. It was becoming just as bad as the regular MU.

[Lemmy]

I dropped it, the entire line. I'm done, I think. I mean, I've been reading comics for over 40 years trying to recapture the excitement/enjoyment of Marvel's Silver Age, and Ultimate Marvel did that for me for awhile, but just doesn't do it anymore. And the regular Marvel U hasn't done it for me since the early 90's. Not a DC fan (a little Batman), not much of an indie comix fan....I may be done with the genre overall.

[Darmund]

Originally Posted by Lemmy

I dropped it, the entire line. I'm done, I think. I mean, I've been reading comics for over 40 years trying to recapture the excitement/enjoyment of Marvel's Silver Age, and Ultimate Marvel did that for me for awhile, but just doesn't do it anymore. And the regular Marvel U hasn't done it for me since the early 90's. Not a DC fan (a little Batman), not much of an indie comix fan....I may be done with the genre overall.

A little bit off-topic perhaps, but you seem to think this is some horrible thing, at least it comes across that way in your post. It's not.

I read and collected the Ultimate X-men for about 6 years back in the late 80's early 90's and then got into X-Men, but got out of it when I realized it was a huge soap opera. Will Jean and Cyclops ever find true happiness together or will Logan keep coming between them? Is Colossus and Shadowcat's relationship a good thing or icky because of the age difference? Can Gambit be any more of a douchbag with his endless never ending attempts to fuck Rogue and can his "speaking voice" with it's authentic Cajun accent get any more annoying?

I finally said, enough and dropped the books cold.

While I don't collect or read single issues anymore I'm feeling the same way about Batman and the logical leaps and gaps I'm required to ignore to enjoyt the stories.

One book I'd recommend you try is Bone.

[boredsilly]

Originally Posted by Darmund

A little bit off-topic perhaps, but you seem to think this is some horrible thing, at least it comes across that way in your post. It's not.

I read and collected the Ultimate X-men for about 6 years back in the late 80's early 90's and then got into X-Men, but got out of it when I realized it was a huge soap opera.

You're not talking about Ultimate X-men, you're talking Uncanny, right? Anyway, a lot of mainstream comics are just big soap operas. I don't think that's a bad thing. I think there is something comforting about following a "soap" whether it's Days of Our Lives, Melrose Place, Uncanny X-Men, or Monday Night Raw (wrestling). It's like comfort food. There may be better things out there, but that doesn't mean the soap can't scratch that specific itch you have.

[Darmund]

Originally Posted by boredsilly

You're not talking about Ultimate X-men, you're talking Uncanny, right? Anyway, a lot of mainstream comics are just big soap operas. I don't think that's a bad thing. I think there is something comforting about following a "soap" whether it's Days of Our Lives, Melrose Place, Uncanny X-Men, or Monday Night Raw (wrestling). It's like comfort food. There may be better things out there, but that doesn't mean the soap can't scratch that specific itch you have.

I mean Uncanny X-Men, sorry.

I don't know that one could go so far as to say that a lot of mainstream comics are big soap operas, but rather that they play out the same storylines and relationships over and over. I bought several of the TP's of Byrne's run on Fantastic Four a few years ago and after reading them through once or twice got really, really turned off by the fact that the only conversations that Sue and Reed were just variations of:

Reed: My darling, Sue. You are the most darling darling of all darlings. I love you so much, but now I must go and spend time in my laboratory.

Sue: Reed, my loveliest of loves. No couple has ever loved each other as much as we love each other. You are my darling of darlings.

I'd say that Marvel tends to be more soap opera-ish then DC.

[boredsilly]

Originally Posted by Darmund

I'd say that Marvel tends to be more soap opera-ish then DC.

I can agree with that. Spider-Man is a bit soap too, whereas DC stuff feels a bit more like syndicated action adventure shows. I haven't read it, but Teen Titans was pretty soapy too though. Hey, we all have our tastes, and it makes absolutely no sense to read stuff that doesn't work for you. That's just silly. I guess I just don't mind the soap opera qualities of the comics that have them. I actually seek it out.

[fujishig]

They have to play out the same relationships over and over... the cast of characters barely change, they don't age, and any disruption to the status quo is usually met with fan resistance until the change is reset. And I'm not here to point fingers, I personally hate the Cyclops/Emma thing as I always thought Cyclops/Jean was the "right" pairing.

But that's what you get when you have company owned creations that are written by hundreds of different writers over the years.

[Darmund]

Originally Posted by fujishig

They have to play out the same relationships over and over... the cast of characters barely change, they don't age, and any disruption to the status quo is usually met with fan resistance until the change is reset. And I'm not here to point fingers, I personally hate the Cyclops/Emma thing as I always thought Cyclops/Jean was the "right" pairing.

But that's what you get when you have company owned creations that are written by hundreds of different writers over the years.

That reminds me of something I read about Denny O'Neil and Batman. When he was handed the editorial position over all the Batman titles in the early 1980's O'Neil was also given what he termed "The Batman Bible/Handbook" which laid out the ground rules for what could and could not happen within the framework of the Batman universe, as well what the look and feel of Gotham City could and couldn't be.

That being said if you go back and look at Batman's entire history, there have been a lot of fairly radical changes, very few of which were disliked by the fans (the big exception being Jason Todd being killed off by the fans, which DC has since acknowledged as a horribly stupid and dumb thing to do.)

[fujishig]

Originally Posted by Darmund

That being said if you go back and look at Batman's entire history, there have been a lot of fairly radical changes, very few of which were disliked by the fans (the big exception being Jason Todd being killed off by the fans, which DC has since acknowledged as a horribly stupid and dumb thing to do.)

I can't remember that much in the modern age that's stuck around.

Knightfall: Batman replaced by Azrael went away pretty quickly, I think by design. No Man's Land was reversed. Batman as an urban legend was dropped. Batman having a son was dropped out of continuity, then picked up again but it's still too early to tell if that'll last. I'm pretty confident Bruce will be back soon, though it they drag Dick out as Batman for a few years I'll actually be pleasantly surprised.

Personally, I don't see how Jason Todd's death was a mistake, though I can see how the original concept about the voting was a little weird. Still, he stayed dead for a while, and then was brought back under an even dumber concept. Were there really people demanding that Jason Todd, of all people, be brought back?

Major ones, I guess, include Dick becoming Nightwing (though I always thought of that as a Titans thing) and Barbara getting crippled and becoming Oracle (though I still think that will someday be reversed, as a lot of old fans still seem to want her as Batgirl).

[boredsilly]

It's funny. While everyone is saying how good the Bat books are right now, I just cannot bring myself to care because I don't buy Dick as Batman. It's silly I know, but I don't want to read about a Batman that doesn't have Bruce under the cowl. Compared to the whole Captain American thing, where I wish Steve would stay away. It's weird what we will and won't accept.

Also, there is no way Damian will stay Bruce's son. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop, but I'm surprised it hasn't yet. It would be cool if he was his son, but I just cannot fathom DC letting that big of a change last forever.