Captain America, Back from the Dead (sort of)

[boredsilly]

I remember thinking the new costume design was pretty crappy, but it actually kind of works.

I'm over Brubaker's Cap, but I'm glad to see the title still getting attention.

[Jackskeleton]

Originally Posted by ytrez

What?

All happened during the Lightning Saga.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lightning_Saga

In it, they brought back Wally and Family as well as Legion walking away with a rod that had Barry stuck in it with some off hand remark that they need him for the future.

[Nick Danger]

Originally Posted by Bronkster

Bad news there, Nick ...

Doh!

Does that mean my issues of Rick Veitch's Bratpack are now obsolete?

[Cheato]

Originally Posted by slop101

Not really, because it wasn't a surprise like his death was. Retailers knew about this (the book had been building to this for months - no one was caught off-guard) and ordered appropriately, unlike the death issue, which no one expected and was severely under-ordered.

About Superman's "death:" That's a commonly stated thing, but it is entirely untrue. I used to frequent a comic store in San Francisco called "Comics Experience" (or maybe "Comix Experience") owned by a guy named Brian Hibbs, who is (was? I don't know, it's been many years...) a somewhat famous (infamous?) comics retailer.

He always kept the press releases out so that visitors to the shop could peruse them so they could see what the companies were planning on releasing. Usually only DC and Marvel had press releases, but so did Valiant, at the time, and maybe I saw a few things from Image or Malibu, too, during the couple of years I lived near there and frequented the store.

Sometime in the beginning of 1992, probably about 6-7 months before "The Death of Superman," there was a massive press release from DC in the form of a binder that showed all the new books DC was working on, as well as some upcoming covers of continuing titles, etc. The NAME of the binder was: 1992: The Year Superman Dies. (Or maybe: 1992: This is the Year Superman Dies; I just remember the date-colon-..."Year Superman Dies.")

And in the section about the Superman books was a detailed listing of the upcoming overall timeline of the story (without specific details like how he would die, or the fact that he would come back afterwards), including the fact that Superman would die in issue #75, and a strong urge from DC for retailers to not underorder because they planned a media blitz. There was also, in the binder, if I remember correctly, information that said the battle between Superman and an "unnamed villain" would rampage through "all the DC titles"--or maybe "the whole DC Universe." So I think the original plan was to have it be more of a major crossover, instead of just the one issue of JLA. Or maybe it was just like an "it will be FELT throughout the whole DC Universe" kind of thing.

I know this is in direct contradiction to claims that I have heard since then from DC people (including recently on the extra feature on the Superman Doomsday DVD) about them being so "unprepared" for the media attention and how retailers were so "surprised." I think retailers were just surprised by the actual level of media attention--not the fact that it was happening. I literally saw the binder and read the press release. When, months later, I could pre-order the issues involved, I pre-ordered extra copies of Man of Steel #17 because it was the first appearance (kind of) of Doomsday, and then I also pre-ordered a bunch of extra copies of Superman #75, as well as some extras of the issues leading up to it, so I could give them to friends. (I never tried to sell them.) I still have 3 or 4 copies of #75 boxed up somewhere. I think they're possibly worth the original cover price now, at best.

[Seeker]

You mean Superman #75 WON'T put my kid through college?

[slop101]

Originally Posted by Cheato

About Superman's "death:" That's a commonly stated thing, but it is entirely untrue....

What made you bring all that up? I was talking about Captain America's death issue #25 (you know, the title of this thread), and not Superman. CA's death took everyone by surprise. Like you said, everyone knew about Superman's "death" months before the first issue of "Doomsday". No one was debating that.

[Cheato]

Originally Posted by slop101

What made you bring all that up? I was talking about Captain America's death issue #25 (you know, the title of this thread), and not Superman. CA's death took everyone by surprise. Like you said, everyone knew about Superman's "death" months before the first issue of "Doomsday". No one was debating that.

Wow! Yeah, that was stupid of me! Sorry for derailing the discussion!

After reading your comment, I went back and looked, and I honestly don't know how I read that differently the first time. I can only guess that I was thinking about the Death of Cap and the Death of Superman stories, and somehow my brain filled in the blanks that weren't there. I honestly thought I saw "the Death of Superman issue" in the post immediatly prior to yours, and not just "the Death issue," and then read your post COMPLETELY differently, assigning the pronouns to refer to different things.

Wow. Getting older, maybe. Embarrassing. Sorry again!

[zombiezilla]

Back to Cap...I, for one, absolutely HATE the new (cumbersome-looking) costume design. Ultimate CA rules; the other Cap drools.

[stingermck]

So Captain America Reborn is out. I saw it at my LCS today, but did not purchase, since it was $4.

But wiki provides the story for free:

Spoiler:

Captain America: Reborn #1 revealed that Steve Rogers did not die; the gun used on him instead transported him to a fixed position in space and time.

The Red Skull tried to use Sharon Carter and a machine created by Doctor Doom to retrieve him, but since Sharon destroyed the machine, Captain America is phasing in and out of space and time, appearing at events in his lifetime, including Normandy on D-Day, his mother's death, and in the European Theatre of World War II with the Bucky from that time.

He fights the battles of World War II all over again

Oh boy...that's something. And Final Crisis did it 1st.

[slop101]

Originally Posted by stingermck

Oh boy...that's something. And Final Crisis did it 1st.

Actually, Brubaker had planned this back before Cap#50, which is when he was shot, so Final Crisis did it 2nd.

[stingermck]

Originally Posted by slop101

Actually, Brubaker had planned this back before Cap#50, which is when he was shot, so Final Crisis did it 2nd.

True, but Final Crisis came out 1st. (and it was Cap #25)

[slop101]

oops, yeah, I meant #25. So I guess when Final Crisis came out people over at Marvel were all "hey! That was our idea with Cap!" They just hadn't revealed it. "Killing" off Batman was just to make DC characters think he was dead, not the readers, so they showed what happened to Bruce Wayne. Cap's "death", besides keeping him out of World War Hulk and Invasion, was to also make readers think he was dead, so they couldn't show what really happened.

[stingermck]

yeah I was just teasing about FC doing it first. I just think a time gun in this story line is lame

[tonymontana313]

Glad to hear good ol Steve Rogers is coming back.

[DarkestPhoenix]

There can only be one Cap, and it's Steve.

I was hoping they would bring him back by showing Scarlet Witch had manipulated everyone into thinking her powers were gone and she orchestrated his faked death to mind-wipe him and have him living with her raising her phantom kids.

[DarkestPhoenix]

BTW, I agree with the last sentence of the OP's article...I hate Marvel for politicizing comics with Obama hanging out with Spider-Man, Wizard magazine handing out Obama trading cards in their issue (WTF does Barack have to do with comics?!?) and I really, really hope Captain America is neutral but fighting for good ol' US of A.

Their reasoning for killing him 'cuz he wouldn't want to live in a United States under Bush was bullshit. Bringing him back because it seems like the "right time" for America is equally bullshit.

Don't lump my favorite characters into political parties you fucktards!!!

[DarkestPhoenix]

BTW, I agree with the last sentence of the OP's article...I hate Marvel for politicizing comics with Obama hanging out with Spider-Man, Wizard magazine handing out Obama trading cards in their issue (WTF does Barack have to do with comics?!?) and I really, really hope Captain America is neutral but fighting for good ol' US of A.

Their reasoning for killing him 'cuz he wouldn't want to live in a United States under Bush was bullshit. Bringing him back because it seems like the "right time" for America is equally bullshit.

Don't lump my favorite characters into political parties you fucktards!!!

[slop101]

Originally Posted by DarkestPhoenix

BTW, I agree with the last sentence of the OP's article...I hate Marvel for politicizing comics with Obama hanging out with Spider-Man, Wizard magazine handing out Obama trading cards in their issue (WTF does Barack have to do with comics?!?) and I really, really hope Captain America is neutral but fighting for good ol' US of A.

Their reasoning for killing him 'cuz he wouldn't want to live in a United States under Bush was bullshit. Bringing him back because it seems like the "right time" for America is equally bullshit.

Don't lump my favorite characters into political parties you fucktards!!!

I don't think you're being fair - it was never about politics. It was initially precipitated by the fact that Obama is a Spider-Man fan and once collected Spider-Man comics. Because of that, they gave him a little cameo, and when that sold through the roof the ball started rolling. It had nothing to do with politics, but everything to do with money.

[DarkestPhoenix]

Uh, I specifically remember reading a Quesada article when he said the "timing was right" for Cap to die based on the current political winds.

Quite a bit prior to Obamania.

And in reading of his return, I read another article where ol' Joey Q said this time in America just "felt right" to bring him back.

How's that unfair?

[slop101]

You were talking about Obama's appearances in Marvel books, and I gave a reason for that. I don't see any Obama/Bush connection in Cap's book whatsoever.

Your reasoning about why/when they killed off Cap and why/when they're bringing him back is completely your own interpretation and reading a lot into things that aren't there.

Cap's death and rebirth were entirely the creation of Ed Brubaker (with an okay from Marvel editors), based on nothing but wanting to tell a good and unique story. Your assumptions on what you think brought this on is based on nothing and is your own creation.