beesonosu

Finally finished DwD last night! On the one hand, I'm glad to finally be at a point where I can freely roam the internet without having to "worry" about spoilers, on the other hand I'm in limbo now with most of you in that I know I'll likely be waiting years to read the next one. I had read here and other places about the last two books being considerably less engaging and entertaining to read (and I can't disagree there), but there was a lot of things I liked in them too. I feel like I will appreciate them more when I reread them eventually, likely before the release of the next one. I just have to hope that Martin is willing (and able) to crescendo the story from here. Personally, I felt that many, but not all, of the storylines really ended on a high note, and I'm hoping he picks them up and just runs with them.

johnnysd

I think the general feel is that it really could have been one tight but long book as originally planned but became two very long and very bloated books without much forward momentum. There are great elements to them, but a lot of padding.

DaveyJoe

For anybody disappointed in the last book or interested in the series in general, you should read this blog:

http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/...d-the-locusts/

It's an in-depth analysis of the character arcs of Dany, Jon, and Tyrion in A Dance with Dragons. I really enjoyed the book but reading that blog has made me appreciate it even more. It points out a lot of the subtlety in George's writing, and plot lines that you thought were obvious and meandering are actually quite complex and have a lot more going on under the surface. It completely changed my perception about some of the plot developments, and I'm now convinced that ADWD has the best character development of the series.

GreenMonkey

I personally don't get the crankiness about Feast and Dance. I think the only problem is the way they were released - rolling through all of Fest without a big handful of the best characters made it harder - normally there's a bit of Starks or whatever to break up the nasty scheming Lannisters and other such characters - that makes it harder to read.

Dance simply has a LOT of new characters to keep track of what's going on - in a way trying to replicate some of what was going on in book 1 in that respect, kind of like the blogger's essay you posted points out. That makes it a tough read somewhat, but IMO Martin does it a lot better than others (I'm currently slowly reading Erikson's Malazan series, I'm on book 2 after reading book 1 twice to make sort of sense of it, and it makes Martin's mess of characters look well-done in comparison).

DaveyJoe

I agree, I think the writing is on par with the previous books but the geographical separation makes them difficult. It kind of sucked not knowing what was going on with characters like Jon Snow. I think all of the books introduce new characters that are hard to follow, I think it's all meant to be overwhelming, and the existence of all of the peripheral characters helps make it feel like a real world that is alive. Essos is supposed to feel alien and confusing.

I also had trouble following the Blackfyre stuff, GRRM referenced them and the Dance of Dragons rebellion a lot and I was a bit lost. A lot of readers have said that AFFC and ADWD are pointless and nothing happens, but I think they're just frustrated that the story isn't going in the predictable direction they had hoped. Dany's Meereen plot in book 5 is actually one of my favorite storylines in the entire series.

wishbone

If GRRM is able to satisfactorily resolve the additional characters and plot lines presented in AFFC and ADWD in the next two or three books then I will be pleasantly surprised but to quote Bilbo Baggins "(it) feel(s) thin, sort of stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread" at this point.

johnnysd

Actually I think he is well positioned for the push to the end. Apparently, and I will not spoil it, some big loose ends are addressed in the first few chapters.

Osiris3657

I don't know if I'm in the minority or not, but I'm starting to dislike Dany. I'm over 200 pages into Dragons and finished the chapter where she

I wouldn't be upset if GRRM killed her off.

Jeremy517

You're definitely not alone. Many people don't like her because her story has gone nowhere in the last three or four books.

lysander

Thanks for the link. That's a great read and sheds a lot of light on Martin's possible motivations. I found it to be very interesting

DaveyJoe

No problem, I did too.

Dr. DVD

And again I came into the thread with minor hopes there was an announce date for the new book. Silly me.

johnnysd

I remember the days when people said that GRRM would never be anything like Jordan with release dates....too bad that turned out to be off the mark.

Osiris3657

has there been any hint whatsoever as to a possible release? Is 2015 at least likely?

DaveyJoe

GRRM's editor says it's years away:

Josh-da-man

The HBO series will cover A Dance with Dragons before Winds of Winter comes out. Bank on it.

Noonan

I wouldn't be surprised if they combine/stretch Feast and Dance into 4-5 seasons. I'd say that would be enough time for him to finish but I still remember the page at the end of the first edition of Feast where he said Dance would be the next summer, I think. His estimation was off by about 4 years.

DaveyJoe

There's a good chance the show will be done with AFFC/ADWD by the end of season 5. From the trailer you can tell that they are all ready delving into ADWD material for Bran, Dany, and Theon. I think it's becoming very clear that the show will finish the story before George does.

Dr. DVD

HBO would love it if they have to finish the show before Martin. That would make them the only medium by which fans get their Westeros fix.

Josh-da-man

I think the series is going to start deviating from the books more and more as it goes on. They've already done this a bit when they and it also looks like they're go be taking storyline in a different or expanded direction.

I do wonder if, instead of bringing all of the new characters from the later books, they're going to be giving existing characters their storylines. I think that the material through A Storm of Swords will play out mostly like it did in the books, but once they get into A Feast for Crows and beyond, I think we might some bigger deviations from the source material.

It would be weird if the big cliffhanger from the end of A Dance with Dragons is resolved on the TV series before the novels come out.

johnnysd

MrX

No surprise but GRRM's UK publisher said on twitter that there's no chance that WoW is published this year.

johnnysd

To be honest they have no way to know that. The publisher denying it is useless. Very unlikely, but if GRRM gets in a big spurt they will publish it 3 or 4 months after he gives them the manuscript.

Josh-da-man

Like they said, there's no chance it will be published this year.

johnnysd

Not sure your point.