Solid Snake

I'm making this thread because it has been of some interest of mine in how the cultures react to it. And how it was and can be taken in the eras they come out in. I particularly wanted to talk about the sexuality aspect of the depiction of child but... the nudity does come up at times... so? Fuck it. One thread.

At the spark of it all.. it's mostly to how comfortable are you w/ that material coming into a film you watch?

Was watching a few old Japanese and European films for the past 2 months now. It's interesting how sometimes a nude child pops up in there, it's not there to eroticize but to just generalize a possible environmental culture. Specifically, Japan... jesus... how many fucking poor village kids ran around naked in those periods for film? Hahaha.

American films have had it too but it's much more taboo to even have here more so as the times go on. Much like this site shows in sexuality and violence, art or reality... your pick. Along with that we're way too sensitive now. But we also have a way for it and at what age we can depict in some sort of non awkward fashion. That, I can't say much for now in foreign films, shows a "normality" to it. Which can ring true. The closer you edge to puberty age the least likely we're to see it here in the US. Other countries... not so much.

At its core w/ the nudity it's not pornography because it isn't there to get your jollies going. It can, but that's all up to you much like w/ anything else. The line does get blurred a bit if not edged when the nudity and sexuality natures of the child get close together. To what point can it be considered pornography to you or me though?

Which brings me to what sparked me to make this thread... Pretty Baby. A film by Louis Malle starring Sarandon, K. Carradine, and a 11 year old Brooke Shields. Had never seen a Malle film but have known of his place in history and his works. Post on Imgur had a listing of films that were controversial.. and that was the one I'd never heard of.

Essentially a film w/ the 12 year old daughter of a prostitute who herself is evolving in her sexuality via her developmental environment and her own social interaction. It shows a nude 11 year old Shields and has her also involving herself in romantic/sexual actions through the lens of her character's understanding and experience of it. Very interesting. I thought it was a good film. Felt like a natural evolving of the world and its characters. At the same time it has her character acting out some moments in the nude.

Is it right to make such material like that? What can and cannot be taboo to what limits? And why?

I've no issue w/ it because it was telling a story that seemed like it was worth telling but at the same time if it never existed nothing changes for me.

When Moonrise Kingdom came out, there was some uncomfortable nature w/ it for some due to the rising sexuality coming out of those kids. Which, due to Anderson's writing, comes out bluntly in offish manner to tone. Some of the lot here were also bothered by it. The girl and boy point out their sexual bodies and do innocently interact/experience w/ it to a degree. Nothing extreme but it's a bubbling sexuality and rising understanding of the other's body. The film reminded me of several films that came out in the 1980s and a bit of 1990s where the sexuality of the child grows and it's a learning experience for the audience and the characters. Didn't seem like it was so taboo or rare back in those times either. Now though it's pretty non existent to see films take on things like that. We're shying away from a lot now here beyond this thread nature and among others in US cinema it seems.

How does it make you feel in experiencing a child's sexuality in interacting with it?

Shit. Kids takes it a wild degree too due to how that one flows too. Literally throwing you to the goddamn walls of varying experiences and understanding of sexuality. Along w/ the possible aftermath of it too. Crazy stuff going in that tone. Nothing not possibly realistic but also wild to see on film. It's also handled differently than one would think as well in terms of what they had the actors do.

It's an interesting aspect of film that can be off putting as a general for some but handled well by some filmmakers to be respectful to the characters and make a sound logic for it too. Nudity as just presence. Sexuality as whatever it's called for. But the two combined w/ the use of a child does make it much more shocking because it hits the adult understanding that forward sexualization is a thing for adults. A sensitivity towards the subject matter and how you yourself may respond to it.

davidh777

IBTL!

Maybe it's because I'm not a sexually liberal European, but I'm not comfortable with this kind of depiction. Kids have plenty of time to grow up.

Mabuse

It's a great topic but Snake that was some awful, rambling stuff you posted. Where to begin.

nando820

Haven't seen the Brooke Shields film you reference so not sure how the subject is handled there. But I have seen Moonrise Kingdom and I thought it was very classy how everything was handled.

Yet I'll say personally I don't feel the need to search for films that explore child's sexual development...

Decker

I can be pretty uncomfortable with the subject, but yeah Moonrise Kingdom did it in a tasteful, sweet way and I love that film deeply.

OldBoy

It's funny because I always thought it was illegal or at least had to be a certain age for children to be filmed nude. I was shocked seeing Jodie Foster at age 14 nude in The Girl Who Lived Down the Lane. I do think it is unnecessary and almost appalled by it, especially when they are so young...

TomOpus

Moonrise Kingdom just had the kids in their underwear. The boy was so goofy you figured nothing would really happen. It was more sweet than salacious.

Pretty Baby was a little uncomfortable to watch considering it had full-frontal shots of Brooke. I felt like I shouldn't be watching.

OldBoy

Was it a good movie though?

Trevor

Snake, glad to see you back and that you're playing it safe.

davidh777

TomOpus

It's a good movie. Really captured an era that one would normally not experience. Honestly, I think the movie would've still been good without the underage nudity. Brooke's nude scenes could've easily been implied.

Ash Ketchum

inri222

If there is parental consent then it is ok. Thora Birch in American Beauty was under age.

Pretty Baby is a good film, but then again I am a fan of Louis Malle and he had never shied away from controversy.
Wes Anderson is also a fan. I'm pretty sure Murmur of the Heart was an inspiration for Moonrise Kingdom.

E Unit

When it comes to stuff like this, I think of two movies - Taxi Driver and Leon: The Professional. Taxi Driver had a 13 year old Jodi Foster playing a 12 year old prositute. It's just something you would never see in a movie today. I could imagine the shitstorm that it would create if this or Pretty Baby were made today. Our society has become sheepish to this type of stuff, but clearly don't have any issues sexualizing the kids on Disney shows. Sometimes that stuff is just a step shy of going into taboo territory it seems.

Which brings me to Leon. I had a chance to as this when it was in theaters in Italy when it first came out. I didn't bother since I couldn't find a showing in English or subs. But I remember reading that the European version was significantly longer than the US release. Then when we finally get to see the full cut, it includes that whole storyline of her trying to have sex with Leon and declaring her love for him. Just a clear example of the cultural differences between us and Europe. Something the US cannot handle even today.

Overall though, it it an interesting subject but I definitely wouldn't take the approach in saying "How does it make you feel in experiencing a child's sexuality in interacting with it?" As a dad, that's a fucking creepy way to view these movies. I see them as viewpoints of directors and their cultures and how they view these types of topics. Not stuff I typically seek out, but from acclaimed directors or good buzz, I'll give them a watch. But how often are movies with these types of stories made anymore. I guess it's still the stigma of child exploitation and who feels the need to test those boundaries.

Solid Snake

Hey, papisito....

Supermallet

I think it would have been a bigger deal, even in Europe, had Leon been the one coming onto Mathilda. As it is, it's easy to see why Mathilda comes onto Leon, and the scene isn't even particularly salacious.

When I first saw the title of the thread my first thought was actually another Brooke Shields film, Blue Lagoon. Although in that one Shields used a body double.

Shannon Nutt

Wasn't Thora Birch underage when Sam Mendes shot her topless in "American Beauty"? I seem to remember some hub-bub over that scene.

I recently reviewed 'The Crush' and on the commentary track, Alan Shapiro (the director) said he got some calls from the studio about wanting a topless scene with Alicia Silverstone (who was only like 15 or 16 at the time). Shapiro refused to do it.

Giles

comments must stay on topic and keep to standards that do not and/or be construed to be paedophilic in nature - comments will be removed at the discretion of moderators

mrhan

What about the reverse where there is nudity in front of a minor? That boy in Malena had his face right in front of her privates in the European version.

Michael Corvin

That's just good parenting.

The Valeyard

Surprised to see this thread re-opened.

TomOpus

I'm sure it's being watched closely. There are mainstream movies we're discussing. While an uncomfortable subject, it could be discussed maturely. (stop laughing )

Alan Smithee

Anyone seen 1980's "Private Lessons", where a 15 year old kid got seduced by his older maid (and the actor really was that age)? Always wondered how they got away with that, and thought the kid was lucky as hell! That actually played on broadcast TV a few times in the 80s uncensored too!

printerati

I'm sure that Stride Rite would be thrilled to know that their ad popped up while reading this thread on the mobile site.

TomOpus

Eric Brown was born in 1964 and the movie was made in 1981.

Trivia Time: Jan du Bont was the cinematographer.