Ringmaster

I got a bunch of gift cards for Xmas and I wanted to pick up two F4 Marvel omnibuses. I was thinking of picking up the first 2 Kirby/Lee volumes but then I read that the John Byrne volumes were just as good. What would you recommend to get if you had to chose between the Kirby/Lee volumes and the Byrne run?

davidh777

You can't go wrong with the first two Kirby-Lee volumes--so much great stuff there. However, I'm also a fan of the Byrne run and think it complements Kirby-Lee well. One volume of each would be pretty fun and also give you an idea of what you would want to get next.

fujishig

Yeah, you really can't go wrong with either, though they are two very distinct eras, so depending on your tastes you might like one more than the other. After you go through those you can go get Hickman's excellent Omnibus run too...

Bronkster

Kirby, Kirby, Kirby!

davidh777

If you're unsure about blind-buying the Byrne, you can also pick up a TPB and see how you like it before you make the big purchase. Byrne hit the ground running so the first TPB should give you a good idea of it.

Hokeyboy

The only FF you need:

Lee/Kirby
John Byrne
Walt Simonson

Very different styles but all equally awesome. I would say the Byrne run does the best job of melding the "corny" yet intensely imaginative Lee/Kirby era with the classic Shooter Marvel 80s.

Simonson's run is vastly underrated, but unbelievably great.

davidh777

I was buying floppies during the sort-of-George Perez era. Good art, but there were a lot of other pencillers cycling through, and then they released a "Perez Visionaries" TPB with only his issues, leaving out everything in between. Bad reading experience. The stories were fine but nothing earthshaking.

I've read none of Simonson's FF but I just blind-bought this volume because it looked cool:

rajedrprfd

That's nice comic picture. I have seen Fantastic 4 fans pictures.

Ringmaster

Thanks guys for the input. I'm going with the Kirby/Lee books. It looks like Vol. 3 will be released in May.

I just found out that Lee and Kirby had an interesting way of working together. Lee would write a synopsis and Kirby would start to draw panels. Lee would then look over the panels and then fill in the dialogue. It seems unconventional considering most people work off a completed script and then draw. I never heard of a team that would go back and forth like this. I can't wait to order and start reading.

Paul_SD

Yeah, that's the Marvel House Style that Stan and his artists implemented. DC and other publishers more commonly worked from full scripts. Lee was well known for his story conferences where he would very animatedly act out the basic scenario, to the point of jumping on desks. Then leave the artists to pretty much tell the whole story visually while he afterwards dropped in the narration and dialogue- sometimes to the frustration of people like Kirby who would leave copious notes in the margins about what he actually intended in the illustrations.

If you are going with Lee/Kirby, I would recommend finding a cheaper alternative to the material in the first Omnibus. Like with Thor, the work really starts to hit it's high points with the second volume and carries through to the third. Unless you are interested in seeing the material slowly coalesce as they find their voice, the first volume contains a lot of weak, often tedious material.
JMO. If you do pick it up, be sure to post your thoughts. The early work might play a lot better for you.

Hokeyboy

^Aw come on, you didn't love it when Dr. Doom visited Lee and Kirby in their studio?

davidh777

It's true that the early issues are pretty rough, often merely trying to cross-promote other titles. Still, you'd want to get the background on the heroes and villains. I think the new Epic Collection is the cheapest color reprint right now, though the first volume (#s 1-18) won't cover all the issues the Omnibus does.

rw2516

I say Lee Kirby era. The title really starts running on all cylinders with #44(11/65) through #93(12/69). An incredible 50 issue run.

Ringmaster

I purchased the Kirby/Lee volumes from instocktrades (my first ever purchase from them). I can't wait to get them in the mail. It looks like vol 3 will end with issue #93. What are the big story plots/characters that would occur during issues 61- 93?

PhantomStranger

I would not start with the Kirby omnibuses for a new fan. While classic stories, Marvel's house style at the time is fairly jarring for modern readers. I would only read them after you've built your F4 appreciation with newer stories.

I would highly recommend starting with John Byrne's first Fantastic Four omnibus and proceed from there. It moves beyond the hokey dialogue of earlier runs and has a lot of what most modern readers recognize as the archetype F4.

rocket1312

As Paul said, this was Marvel's standard operating procedure. All of their comics (at least in the early days) were produced this way. It's been the source of many arguments regarding who deserves credit and for what. It's also what ultimately broke up the Claremont/Byrne partnership on X-Men. Byrne claims that they would discuss the plots before drawing the pages, but when he saw the final pages he would find that Claremont had changed the plots. This sometimes led to somewhat of a disconnect between the words and the pictures. And to bring the discussion full circle, this led to Byrne striking out on his own and doing Fantastic Four by himself, which was wonderful (and highly recommended).

davidh777

Is the OP a Kirby-Lee novice? He implies that he's new to Byrne but doesn't talk about whether he's read the older stuff.

rw2516

It annuals are included
Birth of Franklin Richards
Negative zone-first Blastarr and Annihlilus(sp?)
First ever mention of the Kree
First appearance Ronin the Accuser
First Psycho-Man and sub-atomic world
Galactus and Surfer show back up
several issue Mad Thinker and his androids story
The Mystery of Alicia storyline-introduces HIM aka Warlock
Prisoners of Doc Doom in Latveria
Maximus is up to no good again in Inhumans story line
Skrulls remake planet into 1920s gangster Chicago. kidnap Thing to fight in gladiator games.
Moleman shows back up.

Paul_SD

I just got my first ever order in from IST this morning. I chose the Fed Ex upgrade for $4 mostly because I didn't want to annoy the mailman (the box was huge containing two large Artist Editions). I have been using Cheap Graphic Novels almost exclusively for the last several years, but will probably shift to IST. $4 for expedited shipping vs $7 for media mail. I don't know how IST can swing that with the already low margins, but I won't complain.

Getting back to FF- I have to second what Phantom said about the Byrne being a better introduction to the material for you. That's one reason I was suggesting going a cheaper alternative route for the first Lee/Kirby volume of material. The Byrne stuff, especially his first omnibus, is wonderful stuff and a much better bridge to the material for a modern reader.
By the third volume, Lee & Kirby were firing on all cylinders and the serial aspects of the book were at their prime. But it does get repetitious- which is something that the Byrne stuff is able to avoid with more modern and varied plotting.

Supermallet

As long as you can handle the corniness that typified much of Marvel's '60s output, there's some incredible stuff in the Kirby/Lee era of FF. Although if the omnibuses are in black and white, you'll lose out on some of the majesty of Kirby's art, which IMO is the most enduring element of that era.

davidh777

They're in color. Only the Essentials line is in B&W.

Supermallet

In that case, I say go for the Lee/Kirby stuff and just know that there will be some supremely corny shit in there.

dishpan

this. after you are familiar with the title and characters you have to read the hickman omnis, its the best thing the series has ever done in my opinion.

http://smile.amazon.com/Fantastic-Fo...asin=785165665

http://smile.amazon.com/Fantastic-Fo...ickman+omnibus

for something almost as modern but not as deep, i thoroughly enjoyed the mark waid run and found it so fun. so if you want something lighter i absolutely recommend this as well

http://smile.amazon.com/Fantastic-Fo...fantastic+four

its not in omni format unfortunately. if you are cool with paperbacks here they are

http://smile.amazon.com/Fantastic-Fo...asin=785156550

http://smile.amazon.com/Fantastic-Fo...fantastic+four

http://smile.amazon.com/Fantastic-Fo...fantastic+four

http://smile.amazon.com/Fantastic-Fo...fantastic+four

you have to ignore the 1 star reviews on those last two, the purchaser didnt understand what they were ordering...