Amazon "bargains".. Beware I almost got caught

[Sindicate]

Someone posted this before, but beware!

I've been looking to buy MIB LE from Amazon for a while now and the price originally started off at 23.97. It then increased to 27.97, then dropped to 25.97, and after I ordered it at 25.97, it jumped to 27.97. I did all this price viewing with cookies OFF, and I was not logged into my account, which means that Amazon tracks you by some other way perhaps by IP address.

I find this extremely sneaky and unethical. If you walk into a store, you aren't charged more based on how many times you pick up the dvd to look at the cover are you?

The way I found this out was I went to another computer I have, with a different IP, etc. and checked prices. At the same time, MIB LE is currently 27.97 on my computer and 23.97 on another.

BEWARE! And tell others.

[Tempy]

...

[Sindicate]

I was just comparing the top 100 dvds.

More than half of the dvds on my list are more expensive on this computer than the other computer. I have cookies off, and I am not logged into my account and I have restarted netscape.

That is really really dishonest Amazon.

[Sindicate]

Okay quick solution for Amazon's little dishonest pricing scam.

It seems that amazon arbitrarily fluctuates the price of dvds based on how many times you view/login etc.

I am using netscape, I don't have cookies on, and under cache I have 0 for memory and 0 for disk cache. You have to completely clear your cache folder in netscape because it seems that each time you log into Amazon, it checks the cache of previous Amazon logins and then manipulates the prices based on what it finds there.

Ie. in my situation the prices have fluctuated high, then lower then high again, probably in an attempt to encourage people to buy dvds before "prices" go up.

[davidave]

i don't have anything to say but sindicate looked pretty lonely posting all by himself

[Antares]

Thanks for the heads up. It's great to be rewarded for being a returning customer with higher prices, nice job Amazon.

I used Netscape (my normal browser) to search for MIB and found all editions for 30% off (LE 27.97). I then right away checked using Enigma (which I hadn't used for Amazon) and was given 35% off on all editions (LE 25.97).

[Sindicate]

Yup I know.

Just clear your cache AND cookies completely and MIB should go back down to $23.97

I did that, cancelled my order for MIB, then reordered at $23.97

[This message has been edited by Sindicate (edited September 03, 2000).]

[Mr Bigglesworth]

This is happening with MI:2 as well - sometimes its 17.99, other times its 19.59
I'm happy with Amazon for now though coz I ordered the MIB LE straight away and then they reduced the price from 30% off to 40% off but gave it to me at 60% off - only $15! http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif

[dodobird]

Well, I think it works both ways...

On the non-cookied Netscape, I get 35% off every edition of MIB.

On the cookied/my account IE5.5, I get 40% off all editions.

I guess it just doesn't change the prices if there is already a cached page. So if you had a lower price you'll still have a lower price... interesting http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif

See, if you could in some way modify your cookies/cache... OK THIS IS BAD. I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING!

[Sindicate]

It really depends on how amazon wants to manipulate your pricing I think. Because MIB was 23.97 for me for a long time and it was cached. But lately, I had been checking it out more often and the price started to rise http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif And other dvds like MI2, Matrix, Fight Club, etc etc. all change in pricing based on what Amazon read in my cache.

If you want to always get the original discount, clear all cookies and cache.

Amazon apparently offers good discounts to new users, then once they get the person hooked and coming back to their site again and again, they play around with the prices to make more money or trick you into ordering sooner in fear that prices will rise.

[pilot]

moving to the Online Store Forum

[Hoc]

Or you can just call Amazon up and ask that they adjust your price. They will price match their own lower prices with no hassles.

[stanbud]

Sounds like illegal price descrimination.

[V-ism]

I have also noticed this, you can use http://www.the-cloak.com to browse amazon anonymously and see alot of the top sellers are reduced more than what your cached/cookied browser would see. If anything, I think regular shoppers should get more of a discount rather than a price hike.

Here's some of the price differences I have found:

MI2 20.99/19.49
MiB:LE 27.97/25.97
American Beauty 18.89/17.54
Leon 22.46/19.47
Fargo 14.99/12.99
Platoon 14.99/12.99
ID4 26.24/22.74
Titus 26.24/22.74
Princess Bride 14.99/12.99
Jaws DTS 20.54/17.54

What I have noticed is the prices skyrocket after you order an item once. Like with Titus, I ordered it last week for 24.49, today it is at 26.24. However the 24.49 is still higher than the 22.74 on an uncached/uncookied browser. Same goes for Princess Bride and Jaws DTS, I got these for a lower price than what I see now, but is not as low as the uncached browser. I have already emailed amazon about this, asking for a refund and complaining about this practice.

[This message has been edited by V-ism (edited September 03, 2000).]

[DeepSleep]

MIB is 35% off for every version Amazon has going through my regular ISP and cookied browser.

Then tried it through a different computer (my girlfriend's) with a different ISP address and she has never browsed Amazon.
Now, all versions of MIB at Amazon come up at 40% off!!!

I read somewhere awhile back that Amazon had hired away some sharp folks from Walmart. Over at Walmart their computers at checkout analyse each transaction for things like if you buy some motor oil, how often do you also buy an oil filter. Baby food and Pampers, etc. Now that these sharp Walmart folks work at Amazon, they must be doing the same thing on pricing. They must figure that with repeat Amazon customers they have "won" them over and they can charge them slightly higher prices since they are loyal and "don't mind and/or don't notice" that they are being charged 3 - 5% more for some items. Brand new potential customers are shown slighty lower prices on big hits, like MIB and once they become repeat buyers, they sneak the prices up on them just a little. It might be a little from each customer, but when you add up all the customers Amazon has, it does amount to quite a few $$$.

Or you can think of the lower prices for brand new Amazon shoppers as automatic coupons for lower prices.

Something to think about...........

[Tempy]

Well fudge me in my posterior! I was sceptical at first, but behold it is true. I had 30% off on MiB LE. Cleared my cookies and now I have 40% off! I need to do some serious order revisions...bbl

[sky9]

Outlaw Star Vol 01 is %30 off not logged in
and %25 off logged in.

BUT Aod http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/biggrin.gifC is %35 off logged in and %25 off not logged in AND I JUST BOUGHT IT 4 DAYS AGO
at $30 off :O

[silentbob007]

I was looking at a price for a friend, and again confirm price discrepancies. Fight Club is listed as %25 off for a logged in customer, but it is %35 for a "new" customer. On a DVD set this expensive, that is about a $4 difference! I think that Amazon is going to catch a lot of sh-- on this.

------------------
Adventure ... Excitement ... A Jedi craves not these things.

[djones6746]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sky9:
Outlaw Star Vol 01 is %30 off not logged in
and %25 off logged in.

BUT Aod http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/biggrin.gifC is %35 off logged in and %25 off not logged in AND I JUST BOUGHT IT 4 DAYS AGO
at $30 off :O<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


You bought this for $30 off...that is one hell of a deal!!! http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/wink.gif

[John Richmond]

Here's what I've found out after much experimenting. The first time you enter the Amazon site they give you a cookie number. It's the number all the way on the end in the address bar. Once you get that number it stays with you until you clear your cookies. Each number seems to have it's own % off.
On MIB LE you either get 30%,35%, or 40%.

Once you get a percentage it stays with you until yoou clear the cookies. It didn't matter for me if I signed in first or not, with cookies cleared it's random what percentage you will get.

One thing I haven't tried is to see if once you get 40% on MIB LE do you get the higher percentage on everything or is it a different % on each title. Guess I'll check that next.

So, anyone who has ordered MIB LE for less than 40% off you need to clear your cookies then keep going back until you get the 40%.
If you do it enough times eventually it will come up.

Hope this is understandable :-)

[pgodden]

Well I just went onto Amazon from another computer and selected MIB at 40%off saved it in the shopping cart at that discount for later. Then came back to my primary computer , logged in and it reverted to 35% discount....... pretty crooked if you ask me!

[John Richmond]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pgodden:
Well I just went onto Amazon from another computer and selected MIB at 40%off saved it in the shopping cart at that discount for later. Then came back to my primary computer , logged in and it reverted to 35% discount....... pretty crooked if you ask me!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's because you now have a 40% cookie in the first computer and a 35% cookie in the second computer.

If you want to order it for 40% off using the second computer you will have to keep clearing your cookies and going back to Amazon until you get the 40%.

[pgodden]

ya that or order from the other computer...

[Ding]

Tutorial (for Internet Explorer 4.0 and above):
This applies only to dial-up connections, or broadband with dynamic IP addresses.

Surf away from Amazon.com. Go to Tools -> Internet Options -> Security -> Custom Level. In that dialog, scroll down to the Cookies section and put a tick mark next to Disable. Click OK and exit out of the prefences dialog.
Go to Start -> Find -> Files or Folders. Enter "amazon" in the search box and select your main drive (usually C: ) in the Look In combo menu. Hit Find Now. A file called &lt;username&gt;@amazon.txt should appear below. Delete it.
Disconnect from your ISP (if you're using a cable modem or DSL, reboot) and reconnect back. Go to amazon.com and select your item. Do not log in until the item is in your shopping cart! After you've logged in, you can re-enable cookies and place the order.

I have just used this method to order Mission Impossible 2 at 40% off (MiB:LE was also 40% off).

[This message has been edited by Ding (edited September 03, 2000).]

[AlainDelon]

I just noticed this Exact problem starting on tuesday 8.29.00. After having my MIB LE in my basket for months at 40%,it was suddenly 30% off!I fired off an e-mail to amazon yesterday about this after talking with their CSR on the phone(when the csr pulls it up on his/her terminal ,it is 40% off and the csr's seems truly clueless as to what's going on) Today , i saw this thread and copied your responses and wrote another e-mail to amazon directing them to this board for an OFFICIAL comment.I always try to use the links on this board when ordering from them (several hundred dollars in the past few months) and i would also like to see a comment from gkleinman.

------------------
We have clearance ,Clarence

[danner]

I just checked and whoa this is all true. I get 30% on my first system, 35% on the second and 30% again on my third. It appears that once you get a certain percentage cookie you keep it for good until it is clear. This is ridiculous. Who should we email to expose this bs?
wired.com anyone?

[pgodden]

I have emailed Amazon..... will post what I get back. I searched for a variety of movies on both systems, case in point Rock Horror... came up at 33% of on both so the next question is..... is there more than just percentage cookies?????? And how do yo know you are getting the best price for your purchase???



[This message has been edited by pgodden (edited September 03, 2000).]

[Mankind14]

Well i have to say I am very happy to know about that. I just ordered Fight Club and ID4 at 35% each off instead of the 25% I thought I was gonna have to pay. Saved Me around 5$, or a few days of Freeride.

[Ray Warner]

Oddly enough, I checked this out and got the opposite results from most everyone else. I surfed to amazon and checked out MIB:LE and MI2 both through my account like normal and through that cloaking site. Through my account MIB was $23 something and MI2 was $17 something...through the cloaking site (with everything selected as being disabled) MIB was $27 something and MI2 was $20 something. I also checked Braveheart both ways (I bought Braveheart from Amazon) and it was the same price both ways....perhaps this means that amazon is just playing these games with pre-orders?

[Hal2000]

I have very limited understanding of some of the technicalities discussed herein. Habitually, I flush cookies before every logoff, so I may never have experienced these bizarre gyrations. One thing I have always known about Amazon: the worst company on the internet for me, bar none. Oh, they may get their shipments out on time, they may charge you exactly what they are supposed to according to your order page, but their pricing practices qualify them as the shysters of the internet. These pricing practices are nothing less than opportunistic and deceitful.
------------------
Do you see what a can of worms this portal is? I don't think I can go on living my life as I have lived it.

[This message has been edited by Hal2000 (edited September 03, 2000).]

[Sindicate]

Hahahah I've been a very recent customer of Amazon, in fact I've never even ordered anything off the internet except Amazon.

I'm surprised no one else noticed Amazon's little price manipulation scheme before heheh I guess you long time users of Amazon get too used to paying their high prices and don't mind it http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif

Anyway, I still like Amazon! If you Amazon guys are reading this maybe I shouldn't have posted about this topic http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif You guys have never made a profit and I don't want you to go bankrupt!

Sorry! But once this gets out (which I am sure news folk would love to jump on) you guys are going to have to end it.

[VH]

After reading this I went back to check on my last order placed on friday. I found that four of the DVDs I ordered at 30% off had the price-range 25-35% off.

The DVDs:

The Hurricane
Jaws - Dolby Digital
Chasing Amy - Criterion Collection
Ghost Dog - The Way of the Samurai

I sent them an e-mail and they adjusted the prices, so I got $5.60 off http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/wink.gif



The reply I got from Amazon:

Thank you for writing to us at Amazon.com.

>From time to time, we test and re-evaluate various aspects of our web site
to determine which characteristics drive customer purchases and
satisfaction. We've learned that certain aspects of our site resonate
with customers in different ways, and we are continually fine-tuning our
presentation--site design, layout, price, customer reviews--to provide our
customers with the greatest value, selection, and information for their
online purchasing decisions.

These tests are conducted for a brief period during which certain sections
of our web site will appear differently to randomly selected Amazon.com
customers. Price is one aspect we may test, and accordingly, that means
that some customers may pay a different price for select items. However,
please bear in mind that the discounts we offer on items in our catalog do
vary even when we are not testing our site.

I have adjusted the prices on your order for the items you have listed. I
apologize for any confusion or misunderstanding this has caused.

Please don't hesitate to contact us again should you have any further
questions or concerns, and thanks for shopping at Amazon.com. We look
forward to serving you again in the near future.


Best regards,

Dan K.
Amazon.com

[Count Zero]

THAT has to be the most incredible BULLSH!T that amazon has thrown us ever !!! http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/eek.gif

[This message has been edited by Count Zero (edited September 04, 2000).]

[jonathan.e]

Getting 40% off on Men In Black, MI2, American Beauty, X Files Season 2 with cookies cleared.

For a company like Amazon that’s built it’s reputation on honesty and excellent customer service at the expense of having the lowest prices on the net, this is a very dangerous game to play.

[Count Zero]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>For a company like Amazon that’s built it’s reputation on honesty and excellent customer service at the expense of having the lowest prices on the net, this is a very dangerous game to play.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ooops... Or was it the highest prices? It seems you never know with amazon anymore. My trust with them is fading away... http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/frown.gif

[Tripletdad]

I checked a past order of mine. 3 different prices listed on 3 different computers ( $15 difference ).

I always considered Amazon.com to be one of the most reliable internet sites but no more.

I will now watch Amazon.com very closely.

[jonathan.e]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Count Zero:
Ooops... Or was it the [b]highest prices?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Count, that’s what I meant - That previously all that they had going for them was their perceived honesty because they chose to opt out of the pricing war. Now they don’t even have their good name.

[kuroiinu]

This is a very strange business model, to charge customers more when they buy more or come back to the site more.

I have no problem with coupons for first-time customers as marketing enticements, but I thought the idea was to attract customers first and then work hard to keep them. This is definitely not going to earn customer loyalty. It is doubly disappointing to see this gimmick practiced by a supposedly top tier store like amazon.

[Count Zero]

jonathan, I hear you man... This makes me so !MAD!

I think someone needs to press amazon hard with this matter. They can't get away with this. Absolutely unforgivable!

Wonder how long they have been doing this?!?

[This message has been edited by Count Zero (edited September 04, 2000).]

[djones6746]

If I was a stockholder...I would be seriously considering cashing in all of my shares and going elsewhere on the stock market!!! First they raise their prices and now they are caught scamming the consumers!!!!

[bhk]

Just tried erasing cookies and got a $4 "discount" on Men in Black LE. Thanks.
I will also be sending an e-mail to Amazon about this

[John Richmond]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kuroiinu:
This is a very strange business model, to charge customers more when they buy more or come back to the site more.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They are not necessarily charging more to return customers. The way it is working is if you go to their site and have no cookie from them they will assign one at random. That cookie determines the amount of discount you get. On MIB it's 30%, 35%, or 40%. Once you get your assigned percentage it will stay with you until you clear your cookies or access them from another machine.

It doesn't matter whether you're a current customer or not because when they issue you a cookie it's random. A new customer could get any of those percentages and a previous customer could get any of them if he has cleared his cookies since his last visit.

Apparently the reason they're doing this is to see at what % off are they making the most money. In other words, do they enough sell more MIB at 40% to make up for the extra money off they're giving you. I must add that most of the % differences were on pre-orders but not all. Leon the Professional had different prices for instance.

I can see why they would do this but I sure haven't heard of anyone doing it before. Hard to believe they thought we wouldn't find out with all the price information swapping on boards like this.

[ElNino]

John,can you edit your cookie to ensure that you always get the 40% discount?

[djones6746]

There is a thing called a survey which they could issue to see what prices people are more willing to pay for dvds etc.....the way they are going about it is wrong!!! If this reaches the wire, this could definitely hurt their business in the near future!!! I think they better offer all of us here at dvdtalk a $100 GC to keep our mouths shut!!! http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/wink.gif

[dek]

Time to fire off some emails to Cnet.com and other places. Lets see how Amazon likes some bad press http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif

[John Richmond]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElNino:
John,can you edit your cookie to ensure that you always get the 40% discount?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Originally I thought the first 3 numbers of the cookie determined what percentage you got but it turns out that's not true. What you could do is once you get the 40% cookie copy it to another folder somewhere (the cookie, not the address bar number). Then if you clear your cookies for some reasom you could paste it back in the cookie folder.

I suppose you could send that cookie to another computer if you wanted to. Don't try just copying the address in the address bar because you get a "browser failure" notice if the number in your address bar doesn't match the cookie number in your cookie folder.

I can see it now, a black market for selling 40% off cookies developes on ebay. Who woulda thunk it http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif

Oh, just to make one thing clear since I reread your question, once you get the 40% cookie you will keep getting the 40% off as long as you don't delete your cookies. I'm not sure if that was what you were asking.

[LASERMOVIES]

I just got off the phone with an Amazon price specialist over a price dispute on a recent order I placed. I ordered the Hurricane and Erin Brockovich at 30% off on their site last week, both titles are currently being shipped. This morning they were listed at 35% off. I called customer service and they claimed both titles were only 30% off and wouldn't honor the lower price since it didn't show up for them. They treated me like I was either lying or making up the the price difference. I than reordered both titles and was charged the lower price. I called customer service again and when they compared both orders there was no arguement, and gave me the order at a lower price. I also tried going through Amazon at http://www.anonymizer.com/ and the Hurricane and Erin Brockovich are listed at 25% off.

------------------
My DVD and Laser Disc Collection (http://www.dvdtracker.com/dvd_list.asp?user_id=BRIAN503%40mail%2Ecom&order_by=title)

[This message has been edited by LASERMOVIES (edited September 04, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by LASERMOVIES (edited September 04, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by LASERMOVIES (edited September 04, 2000).]

[Sindicate]

Hahah the **** is starting to hit the fan.

[GeoffK]

Since it is labor day my contact at Amazon isn't going to be in the office, but I will call him on Tuesday and find out what is going on.

Geoff

[djones6746]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gkleinman:
Since it is labor day my contact at Amazon isn't going to be in the office, but I will call him on Tuesday and find out what is going on.

Geoff<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This should be good!!! http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif

[BizRodian]

If they don't fix this soon then there will be so much backlash. I was lucky and got the lowest prices when I have ordered, but others will not. This is a BAD idea. I can see why they'd want to 'survay' what they sell, but this is definitly the WRONG way to do it.

[This message has been edited by BizRodian (edited September 04, 2000).]

[Ding]

Curse them for attempting to make money!

[DeepSleep]

I have an idea.

Geoff has links to the online e-tailers including one for Amazon.

Why can't Amazon provide a special link to DVD Talk so that all DVD Talk members get 40% off everything! This way we will not have to suffer through the random % off that everyone now has to contend with.

All DVD Talk members get 40% off, Geoff gets more referrals and Amazon sells more DVDs.

Sounds like everyone wins to me! http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif

[GizmoDVD]

DeepSleep, welcome to the fourm... I'm just going to hold my comments in...

[dodobird]

Uh... this sucks. I was just checking each and every one of my orders, it seems that in every two orders, there is a price change. I've fired off three e-mails to amazon.com about price adjustments http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif

The thing is, I have an order shipping tomorrow and I wonder if they will honor the change then http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/frown.gif (nah... actually I'm not sad, I'm mad as hell http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/mad.gif ... F*CK! F*CK! F*CK! )

Also a lot of items in my shopping cart have to go through the cookie-clearing.

[sracer]

If you do a search, you'll find that Amazon has been doing this target pricing for quite some time. There are also a few anti-Amazon websites that clearly outline what they're doing.

Personally, I'd like to see just one price (though it's not a deal breaker) , but Mail order companies have been doing "target pricing" for years. Lilian Vernon catalogs mailed to the northeast have higher prices than those shipped to the midwest.

[dodobird]

Yeah you guys were right. It's not really target pricing... well only to a degree.

It's really arbitrary/random pricing. But once it's cookied/cached, the prices stick, to create the illusion of static pricing. Until they change prices again, at random, but usually after a couple of days.

Doing what some of you have said (setting 0/0 in netscape and disabling cookies), I've been able to get different prices from Amazon every time I open and close the browser.

[DeepSleep]

Same here dodobird!

I have been checking my recent orders, 8/29 was very heavy release date for me and everyone else. There are quite a few items that I paid 5% more than I should have!!!

All of a sudden, the complimentary Braveheart DVD I received from Amazon doesn't seem "free" now! I paid for the stupid thing by being charged more for other DVDs! http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/frown.gif

[Nate_Grey]

I called Amazon to change the prices on some of my pre-orders and the csr told me that if I had my cookies disabled that I was not logging onto their site and that sice her computer showed the higher prices that she would not change the prices. So I reordered all the stuff at the lower prices and called them and they finally changed them. They also told me that they usually dont do price changes and that 'this time' they would do them.

I am so sick of Amazon now.

Nate

[RVN]

How many of you are Jabooming to get GCs to use at Amazon? I'm feeling double sucker-punched right now!

RVN

[Count Zero]

Nate - I think they know now that we know... and are quickly trying to cover this up. Just imagine those poor csr-people working their buts off trying to adjust all those prices from orders placed during their "pricetesting"!

btw, I see that in the recent light they have a hilarious statement in their price policy:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We offer you consistently low prices on our entire catalog of books, CDs, videos, DVDs, toys, electronics and much more.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[This message has been edited by Count Zero (edited September 05, 2000).]

[BizRodian]

I just got an e-mail from amazon saying they updated thier Privacy Policy. I don't know if this has anything to do with it. I scanned it quick, and didn't see anything.

[DVD_fan]

Just to add something here..

test #1:
1) lynx http://www.amazon.com/
2) always allow cookies
3) search dvd & mib
4) 30% off
5) quit
6) rm .lynx_cookies

test #2:
1 to 3 as in test #1
4) 35% off
5-6 as in test #1

test #3:
1 to 3 as in test #1
4) 30% off
5) quit

test #4: (cookies on from prev. visit)
1) lynx http://www.amazon.com/
2) search dvd & mib
3) 30%
etc. (incl. rm .lynx_cookies)

repeated #4 three times -> 30%

test #5:
1) lynx http://www.amazon.com/
2) never allow cookies
3) search dvd & mib
4) 35%
etc.

So no matter if I had visited them earlier or not, cookies or not, I never reached 40%. Don't know if it is a survey, random pricing or if their system learns quickly.

Unfortunately I had no proxy so now they can figure out quite much about me, don't think they have that many lynx users http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by DVD_fan (edited September 05, 2000).]

[DeepSleep]

I just tried it at work. Different ISP and this pc has never browsed Amazon.

All versions of MIB are 40% off!!!

[u2hibby]

Can anyone verify how long this has been going on??

Have we been screwed over since day one??

Are all pre-orders listed @ 40-35-30-25% off??

[dodobird]

I'm guessing this has been going on since the price spike a few weeks ago.

DVD_Fan: you will get 40% if you don't use cookies/cache, and keep on trying. As far as I know, the % off is random, but once a price is given, it sticks.

I read through their Privacy Policy a few days ago, but couldn't find anything related to prices and amazon.com giving out our information to third parties. Anyone know what they've changed?

[Count Zero]

u2hibby - I don't know just how long they've been doin' this, but I doubt that it has been longer than couple of months...

As for the preorder titles, it seems that only a few of them are included in this "price experiment" being eg. 30%, 35% or 40% off. (American Beauty, MiB, X-Files 2nd Season...)

Some in-stock titles are also ranging from 25%, 30% or 35% off. (Big Lebowski, Erin Brockovich, Fargo,Fight Club, Green Mile, EaglesHFO-DTS, Leon, Matrix, Saving Private Ryan DD&DTS ...just to name a few.)

*****Edited to add few titles*****

[This message has been edited by Count Zero (edited September 05, 2000).]

[rickwalz]

Amazon has been doing this for months. You guys should pay more attention.

They did not steal anything from you. You saw 30% or 35% off and placed the order. If you felt the price was too high perhaps you should have shopped elsewhere. I have read this tired thread from top to bottom. I do not see what they have done wrong. They offer different prices and keep stats on those sales to help them identify the best price to sell their products.

-Rick

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May it ever be so humble (http://www.intervocative.com/dvdpro/mycollection/mycollection.asp?alias=rickwalz)

[asabase]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rickwalz:
Amazon has been doing this for months. You guys should pay more attention.

They did not steal anything from you. You saw 30% or 35% off and placed the order. If you felt the price was too high perhaps you should have shopped elsewhere. I have read this tired thread from top to bottom. I do not see what they have done wrong. They offer different prices and keep stats on those sales to help them identify the best price to sell their products.

-Rick

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, we agreed to pay the price shown. But say you just bought a DVD at a B&M for 19.99. You end up shopping there the next day and you see the same DVD stuck in the back of the shelf for 16.99. Wouldn't you be pissed that you didn't grab the one priced lower when it was readily available for purchase?

[dodobird]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by asabase:
True, we agreed to pay the price shown. But say you just bought a DVD at a B&M for 19.99. You end up shopping there the next day and you see the same DVD stuck in the back of the shelf for 16.99. Wouldn't you be pissed that you didn't grab the one priced lower when it was readily available for purchase?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nah, I think he'd just tell himself to "pay more attention" next time, and just let it go (wuss!) http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/wink.gif

[rayw69]

As far as I can tell, there are 3 "levels" of cookies. This is just a small observation using a sample size of 4 movies.

MIB:LE AmerBeaut ChasAmy Leon

C #1 30% 30% 25% 25%

C #2 35% 35% 35% 35%

C #3 40% 40% 30% 30%

C#1=Screwed
C#2=Non-preorder (~Universal 35%)
C#3=Preorder or Special


So it's at least true that there is no ONE optimum cookie. It seems to me that if you are wanting to preorder a movie, you would want cookie #3, while cookie #2 is best for most other purchases. Special priced DVDs such as MIB:LE are also cheaper using the "preorder cookie." Of course, since this experiment only consists of 4 DVD movies, it's far from exhaustive and discovers only 3 "types" of cookies. In reality, there could be a thousand different cookie "types" that affect prices on the whole site. But for our DVD purposes, these are the only 3 relevent cookies "types" i could find.

The amusing thing is, even if you have the cookies that give 30% or 35% off, movies such as MIB:LE and MI2 still show as 40% on the jpg images they advertise on the DVD frontpage.

My advice: Get cookie #2 for ALL DVD purchases that aren't specially priced. Anything that has a potential for 40% off (preorders and specially priced), get cookie #3.

[dodobird]

These little experiments are really, really cool! http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/cool.gif

Thanks!

[rickwalz]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by asabase:
True, we agreed to pay the price shown. But say you just bought a DVD at a B&M for 19.99. You end up shopping there the next day and you see the same DVD stuck in the back of the shelf for 16.99. Wouldn't you be pissed that you didn't grab the one priced lower when it was readily available for purchase?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


If they had a 30 day price guarantee I would take it back. But many places do not have such guarantees. Even Mcdonald's charges different prices depending on what part of town you are in.

A seller has the right to set his/her price. If you do not like it shop elsewhere. Amazon is trying to see how many people will pay at each price point. If you were willing to buy a DVD at 30% off then they mark you down as a sucker. If you chose to buy from Buy.com or elsewhere they will see that in their numbers. "not enought suckers out there boss, perhaps we should lower the price" This is not a new pratice. Look at the automobile market. You would be lucky to find a new car priced the same 2 days in a row.

------------------
May it ever be so humble (http://www.intervocative.com/dvdpro/mycollection/mycollection.asp?alias=rickwalz)

[badalund]

For what it's worth, my attempts after erasing cookies, logging in from multiple ISP accounts etc. continued to yield the same price-point (35% off) on the MIB DVD. Perhaps they've fixed the pricing until they figure out a strategy to outbugger us.

[DeepSleep]

I just tried it again.

All versions of MIB are still 40% off.

American Beauty is also 40% off.

I think I am going to hold off ordering from Amazon for awhile until this is resolved.

[Count Zero]

Hey Geoff, have you already discussed this matter with your contact @ amazon and what was the outcome...?

[dodobird]

Ok, people, someone has been tipping CNET about this (and mentioning this thread!) dek, was it you? http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif

I don't know why, but I like shopping at Amazon.com... let's hope it doesn't go the way of Reel.com (or the dodobird http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif) because I'd be really http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/frown.gif and http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/mad.gif ... http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/frown.gif more than anything.

EDIT: phew, glad i'm not the only one. thought i was in trouble or something http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by dodobird (edited September 05, 2000).]

[rayw69]

Yeah, just got an email from some CNet reporter about amazon's pricing policies. I figure any press that brings people to DVDtalk is good right: http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif

I don't think we have to worry about amazon going to way of reel.com. It's not as if they are hiding this pricing policy. They've done this for quite a while as far as I know.

[asabase]

Maybe it's asking too much, but could someone check if Saving Private Ryan DTS, Green Mile, and Braveheart are affected.

I just ordered them from a school computer (= cookies always on). My home computer still doesn't have internet access (stupid bad cable wiring).

[Count Zero]

Saving Private Ryan DTS & Green Mile - were 25,30 or 35% off
Braveheart - 30% off

Oh wait, just checked those again and they seem to be nailed down to 30% off now. Maybe amazon has fixed these back to normal again...

Can anyone confirm this?

[This message has been edited by Count Zero (edited September 05, 2000).]

[dodobird]

Yup, I think Amazon "fixed" it http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif

EDIT: Anyone have a "good" cookie for sale? http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by dodobird (edited September 05, 2000).]

[asabase]

I found a computer without my cookie on it (I think, I still don't have rights to disable them). All the titles I ordered were still 30% off. Maybe amazon locked in 30% when they got an unexpected phone call from Troy, the cnet guy.

edit: had the name wrong

[This message has been edited by asabase (edited September 05, 2000).]

[Count Zero]

Yes, it does seem that price testing is over for now...

Now, let's just wait what those poopooheads think of next. http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif

[V-ism]

I also got an email from Troy, and I also noticed amazon has fixed their prices. Oh well.

[dodobird]

Do "good cookies" with 40% off work?

Inquiring minds want to know http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Count Zero]

I think they've stopped giving "good" or "bad" cookies. Just one price cookie for now... 40% off MiB, American Beauty, Perfect Storm, X-Files 2nd Season etc.

Would that 35% off cookie for some of those in-stock titles still work ...I don't know ...got stuck with that 40% cookie...

[This message has been edited by Count Zero (edited September 06, 2000).]

[dek]

http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif

[GeoffK]

I just got word that Cnet did an article on this incident:
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1007-200-2703210.html?tag=st.ne.1002.tgif.ni

I spoke to my contact at Amazon and he pretty much stated what the Amazon rep did in the article.

Geoff

[Ding]

Oh, good job, guys. Now we can't order MI2 and MiB: LE at 40% off at all.

[Count Zero]

Ding - What are you talking about?

Both of those are still 40% off at amazon... just checked.

[Ding]

They were both at 35% off when I posted that message.

[BizRodian]

I'm actually more concered about this new privacy policy I'm hearing about...

[DVD_fan]

Sorry, another non-important comment here.

FYI: MIB-LE is 40% off using my lynx with empty cookies (but allowing new cookies).

PS. Don't worry http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif I don't use lynx normally, it is just a nice tool to do some tests.


[This message has been edited by DVD_fan (edited September 06, 2000).]

[Count Zero]

Hey Ding, sorry about that...

Are you still getting that 35% off MiB:LE
If you do, could you lend me your cookie? For testing purposes only... http://sam.wood.tripod.com/smilies/angel.gif

MI:2 seems to be fixed at 30% off right now...

[seb]

Hey!! What happened to MI2? It's dropped to 30%...... awwww man! And I wanted to pre-order that. Do you think it'll go back up to 40%?

[gcribbs]

i had received the email awhile back stating they were offering mi2 for 40% and i must have the bad cookies since it never was lower than 35% off when i sent an email to amazon the rep sent an email back saying that it was 40% and i could order it.
Of course when i checked it was now 30% off http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/frown.gif. i called the customer service and they said to place the order and he took my email address and after i ordered it i went back to find he had actually changed it to 40% off http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif.

I hope they start offering better prices soon because with shipping it is cheaper to buy at a b&M all major movies. I will be waiting to buy the patriot at a local store since amazon is up to 30% off.

------------------
my DVD's (http://www.dvdtracker.com/~gcribbs)

[Morley]

I dumped my Amazon stock (I didn't have much) when I got their email regarding there privacy policy. That night I also heard on the local news that they may even give out credit card numbers. I replied to their email and never received a reply back. It was my understanding that a company has to offer you an "opt out" clause. I thought there was a law protecting people from this sort of thing?...... I'm happy to deal with buy.com, but I like to have options, and while V-store is great, they are expensive. Any other recommendations?

Peace,

Morley

[Peep]

So does this mean that we can't trust DVDPriceSearch for accuracy when it comes to titles at Amazon.com?

[Steerpike]

More publicity:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/1/13069.html

Check out the link to the article on Amazon's "privacy" policy, too.

[badalund]

Are you serious about amazon giving out CC numbers? What would the intent be (assuming of course that laws still require charges to be authorized by the card holder!!!)?

[V-ism]

Dear Viet,

Thank you for writing to Amazon.com. I apologize for the delay in responding to your e-mail message. Please be assured that all of us here are working very hard to provide a thorough, personal answer to each of our customers as quickly as possible.

I would first like to send along my most sincere apology for any confusion or frustration caused by our dynamic price test. Dynamic testing of a customer base is a common practice among both brick & mortar and internet companies. It allows for a periodic refreshment of customer feedback
generated by price, image, warranties, shipping, etc.

During a dynamic price test period, it's likely that a customer may pay a lower price for an item than another customer; It is just as likely that the same customer receives a deeper discount on a different item. Please note that these are simply tests and run for a limited time.

Rest assured that I have passed your message on to the appropriate department in our company for consideration. Customer feedback like yours is very important in helping us continue to improve the selection and service we provide, we appreciate your input.

Your business is important to us, and we would like to offer you a $10.00 gift certificate, for use toward your next Amazon.com order. When you redeem your gift certificate, please be sure to use the shopping cart rather than ordering via 1-Click.

You will find all of the details below. Simply print out the gift certificate or save the message on your hard drive for future reference.

I hope that you will honor us with another opportunity to prove the quality of our service to you in the future. Please let us know if you have any further questions, and thank you again for shopping at Amazon.com.

Best regards,

Galen Sather
Amazon.com
Earth's Biggest Selection http://www.amazon.com
----------------------
And then I used the 10 bux, but i'm still bitter.

[sracer]

The value of your bitterness is less than $10 apparently. http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/wink.gif