nando820

What DC super hero comic books you will recommend . I been following all DC animated features and there are some pretty awesome story arcs in there so I been wondering which are some good titles I could pick up. I know there is the Dark Knight Returns which I have read and it's indeed awesome but what are some other titles that are also good for Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman etc

majorjoe23

If you liked Justice League Doom, it was based off a JLA arc by Mark Wait called Tower of Babel.

Grant Morrison's whole JLA run was great, as was most of Waid's.

The Valeyard

Morrison's JLA: Earth 2 was was the basis of Crisis on Two Earths. All-Star Superman is great too.

taffer

Here are some links that list trade paperback collections of the superheroes you mentioned:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_Of...ected_editions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_Of...ected_editions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_...ected_editions

For Batman:

Year One is the definitive Batman origin story. Nolan's Batman Begins was heavily influenced by this story. Scott Snyder is currently writing a new Batman origin for the New 52 though, which at first I thought was a bad idea, but the story so far has been pretty good.

Monster Men and Mad Monk are pretty neat updates to two Golden Age 1940s stories, but they are not really necessary.

The Man Who Laughs and The Killing Joke are essential Joker stories.

The Long Halloween and Dark Victory are kind of like unofficial "Year Two" and "Year Three" and a lot of people love these stories, but I never really did.

There are official Year Two and Three stories as well. Year Two was okay, and it gets a lot of hate because Batman uses a gun in it, but I liked the story. Year Three was never collected in a trade unfortunately.

Death in the Family and Lonely Place of Dying are pretty essential to the Batman mythos as the former is the death of Robin II (Jason Todd) and the latter is the introduction of Robin III (Tim Drake). Death in the Family hasn't aged all that well though. It was one of the very first stories I ever read as a kid when I first started reading comics, and I love it for nostalgia, but the story is really quite dumb when read with adult eyes.

Knightfall is of course the infamous Bane breaking The Bat. Those are three massive trades collecting 20+ issues each. A lot of it doesn't hold up that well today though.

Legacy isn't essential by any means, but I believe it was the first major appearance of Ra's al Ghul in the modern age.

No Man's Land is great and introduces Batgirl II (Cassandra Cain) who unfortunately was wiped from existence in the New 52.

Hush has great art, but the story isn't that good. A lot of people love this story, but I didn't care for that much.

Under the Hood is pretty important because Jason Todd comes back to life, but the comic story was pretty dumb. The animated movie based on it was much much better.

Then you have Grant Morrison's long Batman run which is great but can be confusing at times:

Batman & Son
Black Glove
R.I.P.
Time and the Batman (a better retelling of Final Crisis in my opinion)
Batman & Robin: Batman Reborn
Batman & Robin: Batman vs Robin
Batman & Robin: Batman Must Die
The Return of Bruce Wayne
Batman Incorporated Vol 1
Batman Incorporated Vol 2 (the New 52 series)

In the New 52, Scott Snyder's work on Batman has been great. Detective Comics started out weak but has really improved with John Layman's writing. Peter Tomasi's Batman & Robin is pretty good too. Avoid The Dark Knight comic though. It is absolutely horrible.

For Superman:

Honestly, Superman hasn't been written that well in comics since the mid 90s in my opinion. I love the post COIE Byrne to mid triangle 90s era, but it falls apart in the late 90s and has never really recovered. Very little of this era has been collected in trades though. In the wiki link above, this era would consist of the trades from the Man of Steel volumes up until shortly after the Death and Return of Superman. A lot of this era is pretty dated at times though, especially Bryne's writing, so I am not sure how much a new reader would actually like it since a lot of the love is probably nostalgia.

A lot of people like Grant Morrison's work on Action Comics in the New 52. I didn't particularly care for it. Morrison struck magic with Batman, but his Superman isn't as good in my opinion. Morrison's earlier All-Star Superman was okay, but it was too "Silver Agey" for my tastes. By Silver Age, I mean the 1950s-60s era of comics in which the writing was very cheesy like the Adam West TV series.

For Wonder Woman:

I don't really know because I was never much into Wonder Woman comics. I hear that Brian Azzarello's work on New 52 Wonder Woman has been outstanding though.

You didn't mention Green Lantern, but Green Lantern has been one of the best comics of the past ten or so years. Yeah, the movie sucked something hard, but the comics have been amazing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_L...ected_editions

Geoff Johns started writing Green Lantern about ten years ago, and his run just finished a few months ago. His work has been universally regarded as some of the best Green Lantern ever, and it easily shot Green Lantern up into the big leagues along with Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman.

Geoff Johns work is all contained within Green Lantern Vol 4 trades listed in the link above along with the first three trades in Vol 5. Green Lantern Vol 3 was pretty good too, but not essential reading. If there is one essential reading from Vol 3 it would be Emerald Twilight because that depicts Hal Jordan turning evil which is important to the overall mythos.

Also Flash is a pretty awesome comic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wally_w...ected_editions

The trades listed there under Flash Vol 2 are all good. That was the era in which Mark Waid and Geoff Johns wrote Flash, and they are usually regarded as the two best Flash writers of all time.

However, the Flash in that era was Wally West. Wally no longer exists in the New 52 unfortunately. DC decided to bring Barry Allen back, and Wally has been sent off into limbo. Barry was the Silver Age Flash, and Wally was Kid Flash back then. In 1986, Barry was killed and Wally replaced him as Flash. But now Barry is back and Wally has been sidelined completely much to the anger of many fans like myself.

fujishig

Someone should probably explain to him what the new 52 is and why continuity is now completely different.

nando820

Thank you for the very detail summary. I read the Killing Joke and it was pretty fantastic only thing is that it was short. I heard about long Halloween and Year one but haven't read them yet. its the Knightfall a good read? or its just famous cause Batman got beaten down that time.

I am interested in the Green Lantern, its Vol 3 one book or is it several ?

Supermallet

I recently re-read Knightfall and it does not hold up. I would skip it.

taffer

Yeah I took the time to explain Silver Age but not the New 52.

Basically in a nutshell, DC decided to reboot all their comics in 2011 with new #1 issues. Most of the continuity from comics previous to this reboot has been discarded. About the only things from before that are still officially canon are Grant Morrison's work on Batman and Geoff Johns' work on Green Lantern.


I love Knightfall personally, but I admit a lot of it is probably nostalgia. The late 80s/early 90s is when I first started reading comics as a kid. A new reader today probably would find it harder to get into the dated story and art.

A lot of comics tend not to age well. Stan Lee is a prime example. Stan is The Man, almost singlehandedly creating Marvel by himself, but his writing is VERY dated and hard to read now.

As for Green Lantern volumes, what a volume essentially means is a long run of single issues before it gets rebooted back to #1.

For Green Lantern specifically, volume 1 ran for 39 issues from 1941-1949.
Volume 2 ran for 224 issues from 1960 to 1988.
Volume 3 ran for 181 issues from 1990 to 2004.
Volume 4 ran for 67 issues from 2005 to 2011.
Volume 5 is the currently running volume which has 22 issues so far from 2011 to present day.

(Issues numbers and dates taken from this wikipedia article.)

Basically the story of these volumes is that the Golden Age of comics is cited as being from the late 30s through late 50s. The comic industry crashed hard in the late 40s, and a lot of lesser selling comics were canceled. So that's why volume 1 of Green Lantern was canceled.

The Silver Age (late 50s through early 70s) revitalized the comic industry. Green Lantern was brought back with a new #1 issue that started volume 2. It should also be noted that the Silver Age Green Lantern was a brand new guy. Golden Age Green Lantern was a guy named Alan Scott. Silver Age was Hal Jordan.

The mid 70s through mid 80s is usually referred to as the Bronze Age when comic storytelling started maturing, but the term Bronze Age isn't as officially recognized as are the Golden and Silver Ages.

In 1986, DC had an event called Crisis On Infinite Earths which acted as a reboot much like the New 52 has today. Most continuity before COIE was discarded. Green Lantern volume 2 was canceled and relaunched with a new #1 issue to start volume 3. The most noteworthy storyarc of volume 3 was Emerald Twilight in #48-50 in which Hal Jordan turns evil and destroys the Green Lantern Corps. Kyle Rayner is introduced and becomes the only remaining Green Lantern. If you are just concerned with catching up to modern continuity, this is really the only story from volume 3 that you need.

In 2004-2005, Hal Jordan was brought back to life and becomes a Green Lantern again. Volume 3 was canceled and relaunched with a new #1 issue starting volume 4. Geoff Johns was the writer throughout all of volume 4, and his work was fantastic. If you want to read any Green Lantern, I would highly recommend volume 4.

Then as mentioned before, DC did another reboot in 2011 which is called the New 52. The Flashpoint event (which just got an animated movie adaptation) was the lead-in towards the New 52, but its not required reading. Green Lantern volume 4 was canceled and replaced with volume 5. Geoff Johns wrote issues #1-20 of volume 5 as well. Unlike most characters whose continuity was completely rebooted with the New 52, Johns continued right on from the end of volume 4.

davidh777

If you like the animated features, you might try the comics that many of them are based on, e.g., Darwyn Cooke's New Frontier. If you like those, then you'll have more of a comics basis to know what you like and branch out.

I recently read Knightfall TPB 1 for the first time, and basically all I knew about it is what's in the OP's question above. I enjoyed it quite a bit. Again, it was just the first TPB and I don't know how I'll like the second and third.

taffer

The first is definitely the best. The second and third aren't as enjoyable simply because Jean Paul Valley isn't a likeable character. Although that was technically the point since many people wanted Batman to be more like Punisher and so Denny O'Neil (the Batman editor of that time) used Jean Paul to demonstrate that turning Batman into Punisher isn't a good idea.

Another thing regarding Knightfall is that DC just recently re-released the storyarc in new trades that tell the more complete story.

Originally there were three separate storyarcs, Knightfall, Knightquest, and KnightsEnd. Knightfall was Bane breaking Bruce's back. Knightquest was the story of Jean Paul Valley as the new Batman. KnightsEnd was Bruce coming back and kicking JPV's ass and reclaiming the cowl.

In the original trade paperback releases, there were three trades. Knightfall itself was divided up into the first two trades. Knightquest was not collected in a trade at all. KnightsEnd was the third trade.

Back when The Dark Knight Rises released in theaters, DC decided to put out new Knightfall editions that would include Knightquest this time. The new editions are still three trades, but this time the first trade collects the entirety of Knightfall in one giant sized trade. Knightquest was collected in the second trade, and KnightsEnd was again the third trade. Also, since KnightsEnd is about half the size of Knightfall and Knightquest, DC decided to include the Prodigal storyarc in the new edition of KnightsEnd. Prodigal is sort of the aftermath of the whole thing in which Dick Grayson temporarily becomes Batman.

nando820

Wow you are book of knowledge Taffer. That second chapter " Knightquest" does sounds kind of interesting, someone else taking the batman persona for a period of time.

taffer

Thanks. Although my knowledge is pretty much limited to just DC. I never was much of a Marvel fan except for Spider-Man and Daredevil, so my knowledge of Marvel is not very good.


Its interesting in theory, but as mentioned Jean Paul wasn't a very likeable character.

davidh777

taffer

You don't have to read Knightquest if it doesn't interest you. You could skip right to KnightsEnd.

The early 90s was like that with Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man. All three had overly long storyarcs where the title characters were replaced and they dragged on and on and on.

Superman had the long trio of arcs, The Death of Superman/Funeral for a Friend/Reign of the Supermen that was just as long as Batman's Knightfall/Knightquest/KnightsEnd.

Spider-Man had it by far the worst with the Clone Saga and being replaced by Ben Reilly. Marvel just recently released the complete Clone Saga/Ben Reilly epic in a series of 11 huge trades over 400 pages each. Seriously, that's ~4,400 pages for the Clone Saga. It was freaking ridiculous how long Marvel dragged that storyline out.

nando820

^Wow thats a loooot of reading material. Whats the short summary on that Clone Saga

Mike86

Knightquest sounds like a way more interesting idea than it is if you ask me. The idea of a new Batman was kind of interesting to me at first and I always liked the redesigned Batsuit sort of even though it was different but overall the story to me drug out far too long and Jean Paul Valley is not a likable character at all. You should read it if you want to read the Knightfall arc but it's not that great. Also just so you know the DC Trade that was recently released only includes part of the Knightquest story, there's Knightquest: The Crusade (which is collected in the trade) and Knightfall: The Search (which isn't). The Search is only about eight issues but it's a chunk of story that tells about how Bruce heals himself from having his back broken.

taffer

The 90s Clone Saga is actually a sequel to an earlier story from the 70s involving clones.

The 70s story introduced a villain called the Jackal, who was one of Peter's professors named Miles Warren. Miles was in love with Gwen Stacy, and when she died Miles went insane. He created clones of Gwen and Peter, and Peter's clone supposedly died at the end of the story.

The 70s storyarc was actually pretty good. The 90s sequel was not.

Then in the early 90s Marvel decides to bring back the Peter clone and say that he never died. Marvel even takes it one step further and reveals that the clone was actually the real Peter and that the Peter we have been reading about for the last 20 years was the clone. Yeah, that pissed off a lot of people, and that was just the starters...

Anyway, the clone goes by the name of Ben Reilly (a combination of Uncle Ben's name and Aunt May's maiden name). He decides to come back to NYC because Aunt May had a heart attack and then later died in Amazing Spider-Man #400. That was a very beautifully written story, and easily the best part of the Clone Saga.

Unfortunately its all downhill from there. A new villain is introduced called Judas Traveller. This guy is really odd and doesn't seem like a Spider-Man villain at all. He is seemingly all-powerful like a god. He seems more like a supernatural entity that Doctor Strange would fight, rather than Spider-Man.

Judas Traveller fortunately doesn't stick around long before Jackal makes his return as the mastermind. Now Jackal has created literally hundreds of new Peter clones. Seriously one part of the story is called Maximum Cloneage and shows hundreds of clones. Its at this point that Jackal makes the reveal that Ben is the real person, and the Peter we knew for the last 20 years is the clone. Maximum Cloneage was a truly awful story.

Mary Jane is pregnant and so Peter decides to retire being Spider-Man. Ben Reilly becomes the new Spider-Man. Not really a whole lot important happens during this time. Just random adventures of the new Spider-Man.

Then it finally all ends with a whimper and not a bang. The true true mastermind behind the whole thing is revealed to be Norman Osborn (the Green Goblin) returned from the grave. Norman reveals that Ben being the real one is a lie. Ben is really the clone, and Peter that we knew was the real one all along. Ben is killed and disintegrates which proves he was the clone because the dead clones disintegrate upon death. Then Peter goes back to being Spider-Man.

And oh yeah, Mary Jane had given birth. However, Norman stole the baby from the hospital nursery. Seriously. The baby is never seen or heard from again. Basically Marvel didn't want Spider-Man to have a child because it ages him too much. So Marvel basically erased that plot from existence, and its still unresolved to this day what Norman did with the baby.

Also Aunt May came back at the end. It was revealed that the Aunt May who died in issue #400 was a genetically modified actress. WTF. There have been some truly lame death retcons before, but that one takes the cake.

I just realized you asked for a short summary, and I ended up writing a novel. Sorry, I get to ranting about the Clone Saga and I can't stop.

PhantomStranger

The Clone Saga ended my time as an obsessive Spider-Man reader. Each turn in the story got more and more ridiculous.

davidh777

After I read Knightfall, I was pretty interested in continuing with Knightquest but some of the subsequent conversations had me considering this option. I do recall seeing Knight-something at my local library branch shortly before I read Knightfall so that could be an ideal way to check it out without buying.

I just read the 70s arc and thought it was pretty decent. I'll steer a wide berth of the 90s version.

taffer

Same here. The 90s was such a horrible time for Marvel in general. When they brought Aunt May back, that was the final straw for me. I dropped Marvel cold, and never went back. With everything I have read about crap like Sins Past and One More Day and now Superior Spider-Man, I don't regret that decision one bit either. Its kind of funny because I do love the Cinematic Universe they are building, but I have absolutely no desire to ever buy their comics again.

nando820

Genetically modified actress? That doesn't even make sense why would someone pose as aunt May, where was the real one

taffer

The real Aunt May was a prisoner of Norman Osborn, and yeah none of it made any real sense. The story had gone on far too long and grown so far out of control that there really wasn't much of a way Marvel could dig themselves out of the hole they dug themselves into. It was originally planned to actually just be a short simple storyarc, but the sales at the beginning were so great that the marketing department wanted the writers to extend it as long as possible.

Trevor

Great stuff Taffer, thanks for the history lessons!

I've never been much of a Spidey fan, and now feel genuine sorrow for his fans that had to go through that.

I'm currently in the early stages of a DC Continuity History reading project and your DC notes have added a few things to my read pile. By the time I'm done with this Silver and mostly Bronze project the new 52 will be a distant memory.

taffer

As bad as the 90s Clone Saga was, its nothing compared to how badly Marvel ruined Spidey in the 2000s.

Sins Past was an early 2000s storyarc that introduced some major retcons to Gwen Stacy.

Originally as told by Stan Lee, her father Captain Stacy was killed in crossfire during a battle between Doc Ock and Spidey. Gwen blamed Spidey for it and couldn't live in NYC anymore since the whole place was a constant reminder of Spidey, so she moved to Europe to live with her grandparents. She eventually came back, and Green Goblin (Norman Osborn) killed her shortly thereafter simply to torture Spidey.

Well Sins Past retconned all of that. Sins Past revealed that Gwen moved to Europe not because of her father's death, but because she secretly had an affair with Norman and she was pregnant and didn't want Peter to find out. Then Norman killed her to cover it all up. Gwen evidently gave birth before she returned from Europe, and Norman took the twin babies and raised them in secret. The twins returned in Sins Past and one of them became the Grey Goblin.

It was a truly horrible story that turned Gwen Stacy into a slut having sex with Peter's worst enemy.

Then there was One More Day in the late 2000s. Previously to this Peter had publicly revealed his secret identity to the world during the Civil War storyarc. Kingpin hired a sniper assassin to kill Peter. The assassin missed because of Peter's spider-sense warning him in time to dodge, but the bullet hit Aunt May instead. In One More Day, Aunt May is on her deathbed and nothing can save her. Tony Stark can't save her. Doctor Strange can't save her. Nobody can apparently. So what does Peter do? He makes a deal with Mephisto (who is essentially the devil in Marvel) to save Aunt May's life. The deal is that his marriage to Mary Jane is retconned to have never happened.

There was just so much wrong with One More Day. Firstly, Aunt May had come to accept it, and she told Peter that she was ready to die. Peter was selfish and wanted to bring her back anyway. Second, Peter is supposed to be about "with great power comes great responsibility" and here he is making deals with the devil. Uncle Ben would be rolling in his grave. Third, Peter should be intelligent enough to know that making a deal with the devil is never a good idea. It always come back to bite you in the ass in the end. Fourth, Peter sacrifices his love for MJ to save his aunt. I guess that shows who his real true love is.

exharrison

I read almost all of the Clone Saga. I tried to go along with it and enjoy what I could from it, but in the end, I kinda just hate that it happened.

Also, it was notably bad enough that it was referenced in the Spider-Man animated series from the early 90s. Spider-Man "Prime" met a bunch of other Spider-Men from alternate universes with one universe being the one with the clone saga and Spider-Man Prime remarked that it sounded like a really bad comic book plot. That arc had an episode called "I Really, Really Hate Clones".