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Home Theater Audio Reviews

Old 04-11-00, 06:01 PM
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I want to complete the audio side of my home theater system and plan to spend in the $2,000 to $4,000 range. I am looking for a site with good home theater reviews. I have read the consumer review forums and am looking for an additional professional opinion forum to read some reviews.

Thank you for your help.

[This message has been edited by Fisherman (edited April 11, 2000).]
Old 04-12-00, 01:02 PM
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Anyone?
Old 04-12-00, 02:53 PM
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You'll find audioreview.com is of little
value, try these:


http://www.stereo411.com/reviews/





http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/maste..._toc_main.html




http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/Reviews/Reviews.html





BTW, are you planning to go with a receiver,
or seperates?



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Old 04-12-00, 03:16 PM
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With those sites you should be able to narrow down the choices, but the best reviewer of audio equipment is you. Do your self a favor and make the long trips to the stores that carry the different brands and give them a listen.

What kind of price breakdown were you looking for? Are you buying a reciever/amp, an amp, and speakers? or was the total for just speakers?

I'm giong to surprise everyone. I recommend NHT speakers; the VT-2 speakers are, well you need to hear them to understand their performance.

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Old 04-12-00, 04:36 PM
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Not sure if I will go with receiver or separates. I am leaning toward the Cerwin Vega pro-line 3-way speakers with a sub. The speakers sound decent and have the power I want 400 watt constant, 800 watt peak. Thinking of adding a 1,000 watt 20" sub. But that will come later. I have heard the system on both separates and receiver..sounds good.

What do you think?
Old 04-12-00, 05:37 PM
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This is just my opinion.

Since you are thinking about getting a sub which will handle the extreme low freqs you might want to get a speaker that has a better reputation with high and mid freqs. While the CV can handle the power and supply all the base you would want they are a bit lacking on the mid and high freqs.
I would say at the very least listen to some other speakers just to make sure you are getting the quality you deserve. In the end you may decide that the Vega's are you preference but you will want to make sure you try out others.
Again, this is just my opinion and I am not trying to start a flame war.

wrath
Old 04-12-00, 06:08 PM
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M I C H A E L, stereo411 is a great site, filled with interesting products! The more I visit audioreview.com, the more meaningless I find it.
Old 04-12-00, 06:18 PM
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Wrath,

I intend to visit some of the better home theater stores in the area and listen to the systems and compare speakers. It is sound advice. I was hoping to do some reading before hand to go in a little more informed and not be pushed one way or the other.

Thanks.
Old 04-12-00, 06:34 PM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by Fisherman:
Not sure if I will go with receiver or separates. I am leaning toward the Cerwin Vega pro-line 3-way speakers with a sub. The speakers sound decent and have the power I want 400 watt constant, 800 watt peak. Thinking of adding a 1,000 watt 20" sub. But that will come later. I have heard the system on both separates and receiver..sounds good.

What do you think?
<HR>


Hmmm, my advice is to pay less attention
to "watts", and focus more on sound quality.

With the quality brands you will find at
the above sites, few will talk about watts.

With a budget of $4K, you should not be
looking at Cerwin Vega, IMHO. They are
more of a "college dorm" speaker, than a
high quality audio speaker.

A 20" sub sounds like a gimmick to me. Most
reference quality subs have drivers from
10", 12", 15" and 18", and have all sorts
of electronics to control the larger drivers'
distortion.

The more details you give about what you're
seeking, the more folks will be able to help
you out.

If brands like NHT, Velodyne, Mirage, Acurus,
B&K, Kef, Paradigm, PSB, and Parasound sound
strange, then it's a good thing you are
researching more before buying; it sounds
like you were heading down an interesting
road with that $4K.

In addition to the sites above, look at this
15 minute overview of some quality speakers:
http://www.goodsound.com/speakers.html

Then you need to consider the center channel
and surrounds available from the same speaker
company with which you are interested.

Consider what percentage of that $4K you
want to spend on speakers, amplification, and
sources.

A hypothetical breakdown might be:

$2K on speakers
$1.5K on amplification
$.5K on sources (DVD player)

If these are close, then you can begin to
plug products into these price ranges.

$2K for speakers, with a sub, also limits
speaker options, as now all 6 speakers have
to cost that much in total. The next
question is related to a sub as well.

Also, are you more interested in musical
accuracy, or just home theater, or both?




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Old 04-12-00, 08:33 PM
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Fisherman
No offense but even $4k is a little light
for separates. A 20" sub would be strong
but probably slow and slushy for music.
I have a M&K 350THX. It has 2 12" woofers
and 350 watts. I produces excellant sound
and can almost break windows. Retail is
$1800. I would recommend going to a store
with a home theater specialist. Measure your
room so you know how much power you will
need. This will also tell you how much air
your sub has to move. If you spend $2k on a
upper end reciever and $2k on speakers you
will have a rocking system. Add a really good sub later.
Old 04-12-00, 11:05 PM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by M i c h a e l:
If brands like NHT, Velodyne, Mirage, Acurus,
B&K, Kef, Paradigm, PSB, and Parasound sound
strange,

<HR>


I have heard a lot of the brands you have listed. My uncle has a set of high end Kef speakers in his surround system along with Carver electronics. Great for music, but it seems to lack the "in your face" ump that I like in a theater surround system. I really appreciate all of your imputs and am not offended by any of the comments. I am not a home theater or electronics guru and am willing to look at all options.

I have a lot of listening to do before I spend my hard earned dollars on a system.

I already have a Toshiba 3109 DVD and are mostly pleased with it. With the changes occuring in the TV these days, I want to hold off on putting any serious dollars into a new projection setup. But, I do want a good sound system to go in my basement theater system.

In a 20 x 30 room, what would you recommend for $4,000?

Old 04-13-00, 01:49 AM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by Fisherman:
I have a lot of listening to do before I spend my hard earned dollars on a system.
<HR>


Yep, that's key, don't be in a rush to put
down the cash.

quote:<HR>
I already have a Toshiba 3109 DVD and are mostly pleased with it. With the changes occuring in the TV these days, I want to hold off on putting any serious dollars into a new projection setup. But, I do want a good sound system to go in my basement theater system.

In a 20 x 30 room, what would you recommend for $4,000?
<HR>



Well, since you have the DVD player already,
that frees up a few bucks, but you're at a
tough price point for HT: above entry-level
but not "high-end".

I think we can just squeeze seperates in
there, as I'm not big into high-dollar
receivers with limited resale value, and
limited current.

Some creativity is needed; will get back
to you tomorrow when I have more time.



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Old 04-13-00, 11:39 AM
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Does that $4,000 include acoustical treatments for the room? If you're spending that kind of money you should check into it.

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Old 04-13-00, 11:50 AM
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The room is unfinished and I have no plans to finish it in the next year. All of the dollars will be put into speakers and receiver or separates.
Old 04-13-00, 12:43 PM
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You could do what I did. I bought NHT VT-2's, 3 VS-2a's,and a NHT Sub for about $3500. I then saved money to buy a real amp; I spent $2500 on my Sunfire CG.

The bottom line is you don't have to buy it all at once. You might like your system more later if you buy good quality parts a little at a time.
Old 04-13-00, 04:27 PM
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i have an NHT/VELODYNE spekaer array and a Marantz SR-8000 and it cost toward the lower end of your range. The amp is terrific and comes with a great learning remote.

If I had more ROOM, I would have gone without satellites. The SUB does a great job and I highly recommend the Velodyne CT-120 (for about 500 =/- its a great piece..)


If you have room for speaker placements you will be able to get full size stuff which I couldn't do. I really wanted the Tannoy's I heard.

Good luck. You're gonna have fun demo'ing stuff
Old 04-13-00, 05:36 PM
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Fisherman,

Vlad is right. You don't need to buy all 6 speakers now. Buy whatever you like best, even if you have to do without the center, sub and rears. When I started, I bought the entry-level stuff from paradigm and a receiver. But the novelty wore off, I constantly upgraded. Moral: Build a system with the best components you can afford at one time. I guarantee that you will enjoy your system more in the long run.

You may have already noticed that people here are leaning you away from the "watts is everything" mentality. I will do the same. Only kids talk of speakers in terms of wattages. Choosing speakers that reproduce music accurately will yield long-term rewards. It's like this: You could get from pt A to pt B equally fast in both a Mustang or a BMW M3. But really, which is the engineering masterpiece?

With 4K, you should spend half on electronics and the other half for a pair of speakers. You could spend 1K on entry-level separates such as the Marantz AV-560 (you could get this piece for less). Spend another K on a 2 channel power amp. Later, you can add more speakers and a 3 ch power amp. In addition to the above mentioned brands, look at the Hales Revelation 3. Or the Revelation 1's + a sub. You should be excited about the choices you've got. Do your homework, and keep your eyes open for demo pieces. Most importantly, have fun!
Old 04-13-00, 08:02 PM
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Fisherman,
All the posts you have recieved are very
good. I don't believe anyone commented on
the size of your room. It is quite large
and will take big power to fill it. I
strongly recommend not going with satelites.
It may even need 2 subwoofers to do it
justice. Wall treatments will help also
but I don't blame you for holding off on
them and spending the money on equipment.
Even a $2500 reciever may not fill your
room with the sound you want. I think it
will take close to $8k to do the job
properly.
Old 04-15-00, 02:03 AM
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My wife just redesigned the basement and now I only have a 15 x 20 space for my home theater room.

I will let you all know what I find and bounce my ideas off of the DVD Talk Forum sounding wall.

Thanks for your help so far.
Old 04-15-00, 03:47 AM
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Check out the current issue of S&V magazine. They have reviews on speakers, subwoofers & receivers around your price range.

With the B&W 602 in the review you can add a 5 channel amp (Outlaw or ATI) with the rest going to a Sony pre/pro. With any discount off MSRP plus some sort of package deal you should be able to squeeze the total cost close to your range.

No matter what & where you decide to go, listen with your own ears and hopefully in your own HT room.

PF
Old 04-16-00, 01:04 AM
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Fisherman,

Sorry to hear your space was reduced
to 15 x 20, did you try to explain that
you have to design the room around the
components?

OK, here's the scope of the problem:
processor/amplification and speakers
for $4K max.

All prices below are "street" (15-20%
off list, about what one can expect to
actually pay).

The forum software has a limit on post
size, so I'll make several small posts.

PROCESSOR
In your system price target, there are basically
two models to check out first. The Acurus
ACT-3
($1,400), and the Parasound AVC-1800
($1,200).


Related Links
Acurus Main Site:
http://www.mondialdesigns.com/acurus/acuhomef.htm

ACT-3 Page:
http://www.mondialdesigns.com/acurus/act3.htm

Parasound Main Site:
http://www.parasound.com/

AVC-1800 Page:
http://www.parasound.com/products/preamps/avc1800.html



[This message has been edited by M i c h a e l (edited April 15, 2000).]
Old 04-16-00, 01:05 AM
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AMPLIFIERS
Here's where you can save some bucks. Since few
used processors are on the market, you'll almost
certainly have to go new. But there are tons of
used amplifiers on the market.

There are two ways to go: a single 5-channel amp,
or both a 3-channel and a 2-channel amp. There
are advantages to having the two seperate amps, as
you can upgrade the 2-channel amp to be of much
higher power and quality than the 3-channel amp,
for "high-end" stereo listening. To do this, you
would hook the 2-channel amp to the L and R speakers,
and the 3-channel amp to the center and surrounds.

Below are some options for both paths (1 amp, or 2 amps).


5-channel Amplifiers:
Outlaw 750 ($1,100 NEW; 165Wx5)
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products.html



This is very similar to the ATI-1505 5-channel amp from ATI
below.


ATI-1505 ($1,300 NEW; 150Wx5)
http://www.ati-amp.com/at1505.html


2-channel Amplifier + 3-channel Amplifier Combo:

Acurus A100x3 3-channel Amplifier ($589 used; 100Wx3)
http://www.audioclassics.com/detail.php3?detail=A100X3



Acurus A100 2-channel Amplifier ($635 used; 100Wx2)
http://www.audioclassics.com/detail.php3?detail=A100


This model can be bumped up after a couple of years, if
you are/will be interested in 2-channel fidelity, or
if you bump the budget now, you can look into the A200
now, for example, which is 200Wx2, or similar products.


For the sake of time and space, I'll stop here with the
amps, but I was going to list similarly-priced and powered
models from Parasound. I'll leave that task for you.


The above amplifiers are for sale now at Audio
Classics. The prices above are taken from actual
listings, and can also be nogotiated lower with a simple
phone call.


A note about Audio Classics: These folks have been selling
used mid and high-end gear for a very long time. Their
condition descriptions are accurate, and they have a 30-day
ruturn policy if you are not satisfied.

List of All Amps Currently for Sale at Audio Classics:
http://www.audioclassics.com/cat.php3?cat=Amplifiers
(Page 1 of 4 pages total)

Audio Classics Main Site:
http://www.audioclassics.com/




[This message has been edited by M i c h a e l (edited April 15, 2000).]
Old 04-16-00, 01:05 AM
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SPEAKERS
Speakers can be purchased used too, but it
may make some folks nervous for fear of abuse.
But higher-end stuff is very well taken care
of by owners, IMHO, as folks don't generally
abuse their expensive gear.

All prices below are for NEW gear, but used
is a solid option, especially if you can
physically check out the speakers in question
(e.g., at a local seller's house, or a local
dealer who sells demo/used gear).


The driving factor for a quality HT setup,
is the available center channel from the
same maker. The surrounds are important
as well, but it's much more important to
have the front 3 speakers all of high quality,
and voice matched, so sounds pan from one
speaker to the next without changing
tonal and dynamic quality. The center is
where most systems fall short -- both in the
speaker itself, and its amplification.

Also of high importance, IMHO, is the quality
of the L and R speakers on their own, for
musical accuracy in 2-channel listening mode. If
they can't do music right, they won't do much
else right either.


For mains (L&R) NHT has the nice 2.5i ($1,000)
floorstanding speakers. However, I'm not crazy
about the AC-1 ($360) center channel. Compare
the AC-1 to the AC-2 ($640) with the 2.5i, and
see how it works. The AC-2 is nothing short
of amazing, but isn't cheap.

NHT surrounds could be either the SuperOne ($270)
or the SuperZero ($190). The SuperOnes will
be well worth the extra $100.

Paradigm Reference makes some excellent speakers
as well. Their Studio 60 mains and Studio CC center
are comparable to the NHT gear above, and the Studio CC
is a better center than the NHT AC-1.

For Paradigm surrounds, I'd go with the Mini-Monitors ($270).

Related Links:


NHT Main Site:
http://www.nhthifi.com/


NHT 2.5i Floorstanding Speakers
http://www.nhthifi.com/nht/listening...seupindex.html



NHT AudioCenter-2
http://www.nhthifi.com/nht/listening...seupindex.html



NHT SuperOne (for surrounds)
http://www.nhthifi.com/nht/bedroom/s...playindex.html

Paradigm Main Site
http://www.paradigm.ca/Website/welcometoparadigm.html


Studio CC Center Channel
http://www.paradigm.ca/Website/Refer.../StudioCC.html



Studio 60 Floorstanding Speakers
http://www.paradigm.ca/Website/Refer...tudio60v2.html



Mini-Monitor (for surrounds)
http://www.paradigm.ca/Website/Parad...s/miniMon.html



[This message has been edited by M i c h a e l (edited April 15, 2000).]
Old 04-16-00, 01:06 AM
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There you have it, some options to pursue. This
took longer than expected, but I said I would do
it, and it was a nice break from doing the taxes.

The monetary breakdown of a hypothetical system using
the above approach could be:

Processor: Acurus ACT-3: $1,300
Amplifiers: Acurus A200 + A300: $1,200
Speakers: NHT 2.5i: $1,000 + NHT AC-1: $360 + NHT SuperOnes: $270

TOTAL: $4,130


This system will rock, and will deliver high resolution
for both home theater, and 2-channel stereo listening.

Also, all the above components have excellent resale values,
so when it comes time to upgrade, you can sell items off to
finance the new gear. I've bought used gear, owned it for
a year or two, then sold it for almost what I paid for it, so
I essentially used it for free.

The above recommendations are a starting point, you should
definitely listen to these and as many other products as
possible, with your own CDs and DVDs, to become familiar
with the pros and cons of each. These are my choices, and
this is the exact gear I would buy if I had no system, and
a $4K budget.

Good luck!!



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Old 04-16-00, 01:54 AM
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I'd like to add that the Acurus ACT-3 has an optional advanced bass management that is highly recommended. If the $ that Michael quoted includes it, then that would be the one I would buy too. (I have one) If not, do some homework and decide if your system will need it and budget accordingly. I've heard that it cost $200. Is this true?

Oh yeah, budget for speaker cables and interconnects. That's my opinion and no wars on this please. We've all heard more than we need.

Another speaker manufacturer you can look into is Monitor Audio, Silver Series. I have the Paradigm Refs but if I had to choose again, I would pick these. Very, very high rating in its debut appearance in Home Theater Guide (or one of those other squarish glossy mags), if that means anything to you.

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