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View Full Version : U.S. to cease deportation of many young illegal immigrants immediately


jfoobar
06-15-12, 11:39 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18460894

US to stop young migrant deportations
15 June 2012 Last updated at 11:20 ET

The US is to end deportations of illegal immigrants who came to the US as children and to offer the chance to apply for work permits.

Under a new plan, those aged between 16 and 30 who have lived in the US continuously for five years would be eligible to stay in the US.

The plan, which goes into effect immediately, is expected to affect as many as 800,000 people.

The move is seen as addressing a key Latino concern in an election year.

US President Barack Obama and his Republican opponent Mitt Romney are courting Hispanic voters in key states ahead of November's election.

'Especially justified'

Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano said deportation laws were not designed to be "blindly enforced without consideration given to the individual circumstances of each case".

"Discretion, which is used in so many other areas, is especially justified here," she added.

The policy change does not provide a path to permanent lawful status, or a path to citizenship, Ms Napolitano said, adding that it is not immunity or amnesty.

But, she added, many "productive young people" who would be eligible under the changes posed no threat to national security or public safety.

In order to be eligible under the new initiative, illegal immigrants must:

* have arrived in the US when they were under the age of 16
* have lived continuously in the US for at least five years
* be in school, or have graduated from high school or be honourably * discharged veterans of the US military
* have no criminal record
* be under 30 years old.

If successful, applicants would receive a work permit for two years that can be renewed an unlimited number of times.

It echoes the goals of the Dream Act, a bill that aimed to establish a path towards US citizenship for young people who were brought to the US as minors. The bill has not been enacted by Congress.

Latino rights groups in the US quickly hailed the decision, with the National Council of La Raza, the country's largest Hispanic organisation describing it as sensible, good news.

But Republican Lindsey Graham, a Republican who led opposition to the Dream Act, said the administration had chosen politics over leadership

"President Obama's attempt to go around Congress and the American people is at best unwise and possibly illegal," Mr Graham tweeted.

"This decision avoids dealing with Congress and the American people instead of fixing a broken immigration system once and for all."

President Obama is scheduled to discuss the changes in an address at the White House later on Friday.

Analysis
William Marquez
BBC Mundo, Washington

The decision is a political coup that undoubtedly will energise Mr Obama's sagging campaign. He is using his prosecutorial discretion to bypass Congress' inaction on immigration reform.

The most sensitive issue has been what to do with young immigrants who were brought into the country illegally by their parents. The majority have mostly been integrated into American society, gone to high school and have few ties with the countries they left behind.

Under the so-called Dream Act they have been asking for a normalisation of their status so they may continue to study and make their lives in the US. The Obama government has, at least, met them part of the way, if not by offering residence status, by stopping deportations and allowing them to work.

The measure also pre-empts any projects that might have been presented by rival Republicans, especially a version of the Dream Act touted by Cuban-born Florida senator Marco Rubio, who is a vital card in Mitt Romney's effort to connect with the Latino community.


I am happy about this for two reasons:

1. I think this is a fundamentally fair thing to do.

2. This will really ratchet up the rhetoric. :lol: Graham does have a point about this being an end-around Congress, although I don't think you can really demonstrate this to be an illegal end-around. At least the prosecutorial discretion element seems legally fine. The unlimited two-year renewals of work permits....well, not sure about that.

RunBandoRun
06-15-12, 11:48 AM
Works for me. The only thing that would make it better is if we could set up an exchange program where we take in immigrants who want to work and better themselves and we send away people like my youngest brother and his wife who are content to live on disability (questionably determined) and food stamps for decades. I wonder how my brother would fare in Mexico? :lol:

BuddhaWake
06-15-12, 11:58 AM
Sounds acceptable to me but Obama should have done this in his first week, or even Bush should have done it before him. And Vibs I like your idea too. Maybe you can propose it to your congressman, I know it would make my job much easier. Especially those SSI folks with 8 disabled kids. If your are supposed to be dissabled stop fucking so much.

X
06-15-12, 12:45 PM
So a "work permit" allows you to be president? Looks like Obama's covering all his bases for his next election in case his birth certificate continues to be questioned.

No, I wasn't serious.

RunBandoRun
06-15-12, 12:53 PM
So a "work permit" allows you to be president? Looks like Obama's covering all his bases for his next election in case his birth certificate continues to be questioned.

No, I wasn't serious.

*dabbing perspiration from brow with lace-edge hankie*

;)

Screwadu
06-15-12, 01:00 PM
Fuck laws. Feel good!

fujishig
06-15-12, 01:00 PM
My problem with this is: how are they going to verify that you've been here since you're 16 and have lived continuously in the US for the past 5 years (and that you weren't brought in after today)? And if you were using a false SSN to procure work before this, does that count against you? Well, that and that it's one step closer to amnesty, because right now you're basically creating a second-class of citizen who will eventually demand more (like voting). In 5 years we'll get the young people brought over after this clause complaining about wanting to work, and I guess we'll do the same thing again. And if citizens and legal immigrants thought it was hard to get a job before...

Also, too bad for all those parents that brought the kids here, I'm sure they'll get right on deporting them if they're over 30. I mean, we can't blame the kids for coming over because they were young at the time, but we can certainly blame the parents. Oh, wait, that's not going to happen, is it?

Ok, actually my biggest problem with this is this:
Latino rights groups in the US quickly hailed the decision, with the National Council of La Raza, the country's largest Hispanic organisation describing it as sensible, good news.

jfoobar
06-15-12, 01:01 PM
Yeah, the more I think about this move, the more I don't like it. This really does sidestep Congressional authority far more than should legally be allowed, particularly in terms of the issuance of work permits ad infinitum.

But it is also a brilliant move by the Obama administration. No matter how much they mouth off about principles, any attack on this by Republicans on Congress is going to look like an attack on the regulation adjustments themselves, which will further alienate the party (and Romney) from Hispanic voters just when he was trying to court them. Plus, with the limitations listed, this is going to have fairly broad appeal among moderates (see: swing voters like me) who will feel that what is being done as fundamentally fair.

jfoobar
06-15-12, 01:09 PM
My problem with this is: how are they going to verify that you've been here since you're 16 and have lived continuously in the US for the past 5 years (and that you weren't brought in after today)?

For most of the children, they will have five years of school records to prove their residency. Remember, they have to be 16 to qualify, so they will have been well north of school age five years prior. There are several other ways of proving residency as well.

Well, that and that it's one step closer to amnesty, because right now you're basically creating a second-class of citizen who will eventually demand more (like voting). And if citizens and legal immigrants thought it was hard to get a job before...

We are talking about people who have graduated from a U.S. high school and/or have been dishonorably discharged from the military. These people are already mostly in the job market right now, not standing on the wall of a 7-11 in Yuma trying to get day labor picking cabbages (which are jobs few Americans will take anyway). I don't think this will change much of anything other than guarantee that they won't get deported just when they are starting to pay dividends to society in the workforce.

Seriously, if you lose out on a job to a kid that moved here at 12 and had to learn a whole new language to boot, shame on you.

Also, too bad for all those parents that brought the kids here, I'm sure they'll get right on deporting them if they're over 30. I mean, we can't blame the kids for coming over because they were young at the time, but we can certainly blame the parents. Oh, wait, that's not going to happen, is it?


I don't see why it wouldn't continue to happen.

fujishig
06-15-12, 01:32 PM
How are they in the job market now if they can't legally work? If they can legally work, what incentive is there for them to get on this new program?

Tracer Bullet
06-15-12, 01:36 PM
How are they in the job market now if they can't legally work?

"Independent contractor"

If they can legally work, what incentive is there for them to get on this new program?

Not getting kicked out of their home?

Navinabob
06-15-12, 01:48 PM
Works for me. The only thing that would make it better is if we could set up an exchange program where we take in immigrants who want to work and better themselves and we send away people like my youngest brother and his wife who are content to live on disability (questionably determined) and food stamps for decades. I wonder how my brother would fare in Mexico? :lol:

:lol:

This is a great idea.

Brent L
06-15-12, 01:58 PM
I can't wrap my head around how illegals have even been able to accomplish some of the things on that list to even be considered for this.

I expect this to backfire in a big way, and very quickly.

jfoobar
06-15-12, 02:14 PM
How are they in the job market now if they can't legally work? If they can legally work, what incentive is there for them to get on this new program?

There are a number of ways. How is it that some of them are honorably discharged members of the military? I probably did overstate the extent to which they are part of the job market, to be honest, but my other point stands. If a U.S. citizen cannot compete against them in the job market, shame on them.

With a valid work permit, these will not be under-the-table jobs they will be working at. The amazing amount of success that illegal immigrants have already achieved in the work force says a lot about the rest of us.

Tracer Bullet
06-15-12, 02:19 PM
I can't wrap my head around how illegals have even been able to accomplish some of the things on that list to even be considered for this.

I expect this to backfire in a big way, and very quickly.

Do you honestly believe that someone that was brought to this country when they were a minor and have attended school and built a life here should be sent back to their country of origin?

DJLinus
06-15-12, 03:06 PM
Yeah, the more I think about this move, the more I don't like it. This really does sidestep Congressional authority far more than should legally be allowed, particularly in terms of the issuance of work permits ad infinitum.

Pres. Obama of 2011 agrees with you:

With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that’s just not the case, because there are laws on the books that Congress has passed — and I know that everybody here at Bell is studying hard so you know that we’ve got three branches of government. Congress passes the law. The executive branch’s job is to enforce and implement those laws. And then the judiciary has to interpret the laws.

There are enough laws on the books by Congress that are very clear in terms of how we have to enforce our immigration system that for me to simply through executive order ignore those congressional mandates would not conform with my appropriate role as President.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/15/flashback-obama-said-he-wouldnt-do-executive-order-on-deportations-weve-got-three-branches-of-government/

Artman
06-15-12, 03:27 PM
We all know the best day to promote a new initiative is to do it on a Friday. There's no group of people this man will not trivialize or use as a cheap gimmick. I guess his personal opinions are worth a prime time interview...but a policy change gets a Friday dump.

It was rude of the reporter to interrupt, but Barry didn't exactly handle it the best....and he didn't stay for questions.

TheMovieman
06-15-12, 03:41 PM
It was rude of the reporter to interrupt, but Barry didn't exactly handle it the best....and he didn't stay for questions.

As if he should stick around. All hail our King!

Brent L
06-15-12, 03:49 PM
Do you honestly believe that someone that was brought to this country when they were a minor and have attended school and built a life here should be sent back to their country of origin?

I didn't say that at all. Regardless of what I think, and I don't believe in mass deportations, doesn't change the fact that I still think it's going to backfire on President Obama.

Superboy
06-15-12, 03:56 PM
Works for me. The only thing that would make it better is if we could set up an exchange program where we take in immigrants who want to work and better themselves and we send away people like my youngest brother and his wife who are content to live on disability (questionably determined) and food stamps for decades. I wonder how my brother would fare in Mexico? :lol:

I can actually claim disability and a ton of other benefits even though I choose to work. If I total the value of everything, including all the free social services and things like subsidized housing, it amounts to about $60,000 a year income - tax free, so realistically about $75 - 80,000.

jfoobar
06-15-12, 03:57 PM
I didn't say that at all. Regardless of what I think, and I don't believe in mass deportations, doesn't change the fact that I still think it's going to backfire on President Obama.

How will it backfire? Almost everyone who disagrees with the new policy based on its content would never have voted for him to begin with. He can (rightfully) point to the obstructionist Congress who has kept proposed legislation that would have largely done the same thing from passing. This act will further cement his overwhelming lead among Hispanic voters. He has also thrown a political hand grenade right into Romney's lap.

The mainstream media (sans Fox News) will barely mention the hypocrisy/legality issues unless the GOP formally attacks him on it, in which case they end up coming across as anti-Hispanic.

Obama's current support with whites is under 40% and he needs to get that up higher to win in November, but I don't think this move will help or hurt him there, ultimately.

Superboy
06-15-12, 03:59 PM
Seriously, if you lose out on a job to a kid that moved here at 12 and had to learn a whole new language to boot, shame on you.



Yeah, but you have to think about how biased laws like this are against Americans who are dumber than a Mexican. I mean c'mon, you gotta give these people a break.

jfoobar
06-15-12, 04:03 PM
Yeah, but you have to think about how biased laws like this are against Americans who are dumber than a Mexican. I mean c'mon, you gotta give these people a break.

Wow, I think you just stumbled onto a great new gameshow premise. Replace Foxworthy with George Lopez and you would have television gold.

fujishig
06-15-12, 04:22 PM
When we hire someone from a foreign country on a Visa here in my company, the govt. makes us jump through many, many hoops, including filling out documentation that the job could not be done by someone inside the country. I assume that is to protect the jobs of citizens, and it's become a lot tougher now that unemployment is so high. These are people that are trying to get their green card and are going through the proper immigration channels.

Can they now, if they have been here 6 years, avoid all that and work whatever job they want without a company sponsoring their Visa? Somehow I don't think so.

General Zod
06-15-12, 05:33 PM
Wow you introduce back-door amnesty and then when the press wants to ask about it you practically put your fingers in your ears and stomp away? :lol:

DeputyDave
06-15-12, 05:36 PM
The press is not supposed to ask questions, just dutifully report.

Groucho
06-15-12, 05:45 PM
Wow you introduce back-door amnesty and then when the press wants to ask about it you practically put your fingers in your ears and stomp away? :lol:To be fair, that's how my wife reacted when I tried to introduce "back-door amnesty" in our house.

wm lopez
06-15-12, 05:50 PM
Obama did this so the Mexicans will vote for him in Nov.
Just like he did a turn around on the gay marriage to get the gay votes.

Groucho
06-15-12, 05:52 PM
Obama did this so the Mexicans will vote for him in Nov.
Just like he did a turn around on the gay marriage to get the gay votes.Can you blame him? Before now, both of those groups were in the bag for Romney.

DeputyDave
06-15-12, 06:09 PM
Can you blame him? Before now, both of those groups were in the bag for Romney.

Now if he can only figure a way to swing over the black vote the GOP is screwed.

jfoobar
06-15-12, 06:28 PM
Now if he can only figure a way to swing over the black vote the GOP is screwed.

Recent polls show he actually has lost a pretty fair chunk of it in North Carolina anyway:

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/06/12/poll-obama-losing-20-of-black-vote-to-romney-in-north-carolina/

Of course, come November, most of that 20% will be voting for him again.

General Zod
06-15-12, 06:48 PM
Now if he can only figure a way to swing over the black vote the GOP is screwed.

I'm sure within the next few weeks he'll announce that black people no longer have to pay taxes. As long as they've been black for at least 5 years.

shadowhawk2020
06-15-12, 09:55 PM
Wow you introduce back-door amnesty and then when the press wants to ask about it you practically put your fingers in your ears and stomp away? :lol:

I know right? Imagine the nerve of the President wanting to finish his statement before before fielding questions.

Tracer Bullet
06-15-12, 10:39 PM
I know right? Imagine the nerve of the President wanting to finish his statement before before fielding questions.

How is Fielding anyway?

wmansir
06-15-12, 11:53 PM
I know right? Imagine the nerve of the President wanting to finish his statement before before fielding questions.
What other questions did he field?

jfoobar
06-16-12, 12:24 AM
What other questions did he field?

Obama does indeed have the lowest rate of fielding questions at press conferences of any President all the way back to Reagan:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/hecklers-are-rude-but-obama-doesnt-often-take-questions/

Navinabob
06-16-12, 04:59 AM
Can you blame him? Before now, both of those groups were in the bag for Romney.

:lol: Oh man... well done.

Tracer Bullet
06-16-12, 10:03 AM
I didn't say that at all. Regardless of what I think, and I don't believe in mass deportations, doesn't change the fact that I still think it's going to backfire on President Obama.

Ah, I misunderstood you. I apologize.

DeputyDave
06-16-12, 10:32 AM
The reporter interrupting him was very rude and disrespectful I will agree but Obama's reaction was very unpresidential and bordering on petulant.

The thing is, how can you expect to make an announcement like that and refuse to answer questions about specifics, reasoning, and legality? Obama tends to like to make these big sweeping "sound bite" announcements and then let his staff explain the details and rephrase the specifics.

Jason
06-16-12, 10:42 AM
I know right? Imagine the nerve of the President wanting to finish his statement before before fielding questions.

When there's a republican in office, people will mutter things about "respecting the office"

JasonF
06-16-12, 10:43 AM
When there's a republican in office, people will mutter things about "respecting the office"

You lie!

DeputyDave
06-16-12, 11:09 AM
You lie!

You're right, a conservative would never call the reporter disrespectful.

RunBandoRun
06-16-12, 11:51 AM
I'm sure within the next few weeks he'll announce that black people no longer have to pay taxes. As long as they've been black for at least 5 years.

rotfl rotfl rotfl

I am kneeling before you. ;)

wm lopez
06-16-12, 12:54 PM
Can you blame him? Before now, both of those groups were in the bag for Romney.

Why doesn't Obama just run on his record?
What happened to hope & change?

JasonF
06-16-12, 01:44 PM
Supporting gay marriage and ending deportation of children are now partof Obama's record and, for my money, pretty hopeful and indicative of change.

Jaymole
06-16-12, 01:53 PM
Love seeing Obama circumventing Congress. I just wish he would/could do this more often....it's the only way he is going to get anything done right now.

DeputyDave
06-16-12, 01:58 PM
Supporting gay marriage and ending deportation of children are now partof Obama's record and, for my money, pretty hopeful and indicative of change.

The first was forced and pussy (and hardly a policy change, just an expression of feeling) and the second is vague and most likely illegal. Both promises were made in the last year of his presidency in order to secure the vote of his fragmenting base. If he really cared about those issues he would have done something about them when he controlled both houses of congress.

jfoobar
06-16-12, 04:09 PM
The first was forced and pussy (and hardly a policy change, just an expression of feeling) and the second is vague and most likely illegal. Both promises were made in the last year of his presidency in order to secure the vote of his fragmenting base. If he really cared about those issues he would have done something about them when he controlled both houses of congress.

I cannot help but agree, and many staunch liberals who are not predisposed to spread frosting on everything Obama does agree as well. The first two years of the man's term were hardly an exemplar of strong leadership. Is the change he is bringing now just him finally getting his feet underneath his ideals, or is he ass kissing his base for support a few months before the election. You'd have to forgive anyone who assumed it to be the latter.

DeputyDave
06-16-12, 04:21 PM
I cannot help but agree, and many staunch liberals who are not predisposed to spread frosting on everything Obama does agree as well. The first two years of the man's term were hardly an exemplar of strong leadership. Is the change he is bringing now just him finally getting his feet underneath his ideals, or is he ass kissing his base for support a few months before the election. You'd have to forgive anyone who assumed it to be the latter.

I don't think it's a shock here when I say I'm a conservative, at the same time I do have several "liberal" leanings (maybe libertarian is a better name) and fully support gay rights and marriage. I would love to say, "Yes, he's shit as a president but at least he legalized gay marriage." (or weed, or prostitution, or whatever) but I can't. He was forced into a weak sister concession by Biden's bumbling 3 years into his presidency after ignoring it when he actually had the power to do things.

As far as the "amnesty" issue I would be more than willing to listen to a rational plan that a) can work, and b) is complexly explained, tested, and vetted (unlike the Obamacare fiasco) before it is legally voted upon and implemented. Our immigration policy needs to change; I just don't think an unchallenged campaign sound bite promise is the way to do it.

Rockmjd23
06-16-12, 06:10 PM
You're right, a conservative would never call the reporter disrespectful.
They would just call him a major league asshole.

General Zod
06-16-12, 06:22 PM
I know right? Imagine the nerve of the President wanting to finish his statement before before fielding questions.

Oh please he wouldn't dare field questions since the answers weren't already sitting there on a teleprompter for him. As someone said earlier he just blurts out major policy changes (illegal or illegal this president doesn't really seem to care) and then let's his people explain it. For all the hassle people gave Bush at least he answered questions - and he had to deal with the old hag Helen Thomas asking such spectacular questions like "why do you like killing children?". Comparably - Bush makes Obama look like he just climbed out of a mine carrying a lunch bucket.

wmansir
06-16-12, 08:38 PM
Maybe he will hand pick a journalist to do a softball 1-on-1 with sometime soon, perhaps someone from Telemundo.

Jason
06-16-12, 09:48 PM
Oh please he wouldn't dare field questions since the answers weren't already sitting there on a teleprompter for him. As someone said earlier he just blurts out major policy changes (illegal or illegal this president doesn't really seem to care) and then let's his people explain it. For all the hassle people gave Bush at least he answered questions - and he had to deal with the old hag Helen Thomas asking such spectacular questions like "why do you like killing children?". Comparably - Bush makes Obama look like he just climbed out of a mine carrying a lunch bucket.

:lol:

You really should take this act on the road. You'll have 'em rolling in the aisles.

brayzie
06-18-12, 06:19 PM
Those that benefit the most from this will be the schools because of more young people going to college. Many junior colleges were having financial problems but hopefully the increased revenue from more students will change things for the better.

wishbone
06-18-12, 06:33 PM
The cottage industry that produces fraudulent documents will benefit greatly as well.

DeputyDave
06-18-12, 07:10 PM
My question is how do you prove you lived in the US since before they were 16? School records? Easily faked. I live about 3 miles from the border and see lines of cars with Mexico plates dropping kids off at the schools. I guarantee you every one of those plates represents a family that lives in Mexico. We are required twice a year to prove out kids' residency and I'm not sure how they do it, but 100's at my daughter's school do. She talks with the other kids and more than half live in Mexico and cross the border every day. She has several friends who have gone to school every year in the US since kindergarten yet live in TJ and speak not one word of English.

fujishig
06-18-12, 07:26 PM
Those that benefit the most from this will be the schools because of more young people going to college. Many junior colleges were having financial problems but hopefully the increased revenue from more students will change things for the better.

Increased revenue from more students? Where's the money going to come from?

I will say that this might have an effect on middle school and high school students, perhaps less drop outs, but then the criteria is basically a GED, so who knows?

brayzie
06-18-12, 07:38 PM
Increased revenue from more students? Where's the money going to come from?


When students pay tuition to go to a junior college.

fujishig
06-18-12, 08:24 PM
At least in CA all state sponsored colleges are pretty much cutting enrollment because they are getting less money from the state (and apparently the tuition alone is not enough to pay for the courses). Not sure what it's like in other states, but having more people wanting to go to state college is not going to help (unless that gets them more federal money, but that's another discussion).

creekdipper
06-21-12, 07:59 AM
They would just call him a major league asshole.

That's a clown comment, bro.

creekdipper
06-21-12, 08:02 AM
I can't wrap my head around how illegals have even been able to accomplish some of the things on that list to even be considered for this.

I expect this to backfire in a big way, and very quickly.


They're not 'illegals'...they're 'undocumented'.

Sheesh. Get with the program, dude...it's not 2010.

Superboy
06-21-12, 09:17 AM
They're not 'illegals'...they're 'undocumented'.

Sheesh. Get with the program, dude...it's not 2010.

Jesus probably would have wanted them deported too :(