Still aren't hitting as well as they should be but the pitching has done the job. Even Phil Hughes doesn't suck anymore.
starman9000
06-13-12, 11:59 AM
What's gotten into Trevor Plouffe?
raven56706
06-13-12, 12:56 PM
Can someone tell me who Philadelphia will give up on the trading deadline?
coli
06-13-12, 01:01 PM
Can someone tell me who Philadelphia will give up on the trading deadline?
If the Phillies are out of it come July, Victorino is definitely gone. He is a free agent at the end of the year, and is only making about 8 million dollars, so he would be a 2 month rental for a contender.
Cole Hamels is the other elephant in the room right now for Phillies fans. He is a free agent at the end of the year, and will command Sabbathia-like money on the market. There are many options for the Phils if they are out of it come july with Cole: Trade Cliff Lee to a contender, and use his money to sign Cole. Or trade Cole for a bunch of good prospects at the deadline if they don't think they can sign him.
Should be interesting.....
davidh777
06-13-12, 01:13 PM
Joe Blanton. Seems like they've been talking about doing that for years.
Mordred
06-13-12, 02:13 PM
The Rangers aren't in great shape at the moment. Starters Neftali Feliz and Derek Holland are both on the DL. Middle reliever Alexi Ogando was moved to fill a spot in the starting rotation and made it through 3 perfect innings before landing on the DL himself. Soon to be starter Oswalt just got roughed up in AAA last night and is looking to be a #5 at the moment. Just 20 days ago, the Rangers had 5 players hitting over .300. As of last night, they have two, and only one is an everyday starter. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if LAA catches Texas before the All-Star break. It's infuriating watching this team most nights because they ought to be so much better than they are.
About the only positive sign lately is that Mike Napoli looks to be coming out of his two month long slump.
wirefan
06-13-12, 08:01 PM
Can someone tell me who Philadelphia will give up on the trading deadline?
In addition to the names already mentioned above.....Hunter Pence? He has 1 more arbitration year before FA (estimated that he'll get 13-14mil).
If they want to free up money for Hamels, that will help and also net them some decent prospects. Also depends on whether they are planning to re-sign Victorino - if they deal him or plan to let him walk away I doubt they would completely decimate the OF.
whotony
06-13-12, 08:48 PM
So what happened with Dickey? Did he just throw a one hitter and had a controversy on the one it?
Eric Byrnes on MLBtv is belly aching that it should be reviewed and changed to a no hitter?
starman9000
06-13-12, 09:19 PM
Unreal season for him, another 12 K.
bunkaroo
06-13-12, 09:42 PM
Great game tonight in St. Louis. Too bad the Sox came out on the short end but Lynn was too good. Great outing for Peavy but the mistake to Beltran was the difference.
Ultimately not doing anything with Rios' lead off triple sealed the deal.
So with Floyd starting tomorrow the Cards take 2 of 3.
cardsfan111
06-13-12, 09:46 PM
Great game tonight in St. Louis. Too bad the Sox came out on the short end but Lynn was too good. Great outing for Peavy but the mistake to Beltran was the difference.
Ultimately not doing anything with Rios' lead off triple sealed the deal.
So with Floyd starting tomorrow the Cards take 2 of 3.
Lynn was terrific. Figured he had to be going against Peavy. Bullpen had an anxious moment or two but got of jams in the 8th and 9th inning by inducing double play balls. Cards needed that win. And hopefully your prediction will come true. :up:
cardsfan111
06-13-12, 09:54 PM
Just saw the Dickey highlights from the Mets/Rays game. With 30+ consecutive scoreless innings pitched, up 9-0 in the 9th and a guy on 3rd with 1 out, was there any thought given to bringing the infield in? I know the right baseball move says give up the run to get the out (which the Mets did), but the guy is going for a shutout as well. Up by 9 runs, there's no real risk involved trying to protect the shutout for the guy.
wirefan
06-13-12, 09:55 PM
So what happened with Dickey? Did he just throw a one hitter and had a controversy on the one it?
Eric Byrnes on MLBtv is belly aching that it should be reviewed and changed to a no hitter?
It was a slow chopper to 3rd with Upton batting - Wright tried to barehand it (the ball was ~ belt high and he was basically a foot or two inside of the 3rd base bag) and couldn't. Upton's pretty fast, I imagine he beats it out even if Wright cleanly barehands it and makes a perfect throw
Seems like a hit - if it happened in the 8th or 9th the scorekeeper might have got caught up in the moment and called it an error.
In addition to that unluckiness, Dickey had his 33inning scoreless streak snapped in the 9th with an unearned run - error, pass ball, pass ball, groundout.
wirefan
06-13-12, 09:57 PM
Just saw the Dickey highlights from the Mets/Rays game. With 30+ consecutive scoreless innings pitched, up 9-0 in the 9th and a guy on 3rd with 1 out, was there any thought given to bringing the infield in? I know the right baseball move says give up the run to get the out (which the Mets did), but the guy is going for a shutout as well. Up by 9 runs, there's no real risk involved trying to protect the shutout for the guy.
Up 9 runs? Bring them in and tell them to throw home even if they have no chance whatsoever.
Hell, I'd bring the outfield in and treat it like a game winning run on 3rd! :lol:
cardsfan111
06-13-12, 10:08 PM
See ESPN is asking the question--which was more impressive, Dickey's performance tonight or Santana's no hitter earlier. I think the obvious answer is Dickey's domination this evening. No-hitters are overrated. ;)
Deftones
06-13-12, 10:15 PM
Wade Miley gets fucked. Pitches a gem of a game. I hope he gets ROY consideration. He's 7-3 w/ a 2.39 ERA. Bryce Harper will probably win it, though, because the media plays that guy up like no other. I mean he could shit on the field and ESPN would deem it a top 10 play of the day.
starman9000
06-13-12, 10:18 PM
Well, that and he's playing great.
cardsfan111
06-13-12, 10:19 PM
I've given up trying to figure out Lance Lynn's status. Earlier this season, he was referred to frequently as a rookie. Then I read somewhere he didn't qualify because of time on the ML roster last year. But I still see some call him a rookie. If he is indeed a rookie, he's got be right at/near the top of the pack at this point. But again, maybe he's not a rookie, and he can just finish 2nd to RA Dickey in the Cy Young voting. :lol:
starman9000
06-13-12, 10:28 PM
Yeah, I think he was up just barely too long last year.
The Mets' appeal of the hit for Dickey is idiotic.
wirefan
06-13-12, 10:43 PM
^ it's idiotic for two reasons:
1) It would have taken an exceptional play (and probably Upton falling down between home and first) for it to be an out. An error is on a play that is deemed a routine out for most fielders.
2) If this is ANY other game, there is not even a question of a hit or error, nor is there an appeal. If this was a 2 hitter, would Collins be appealing the scoring decision or questioning if it was a hit? Why should the circumstances change the decision on hit/error?
MLB should offer to change it... if the Mets are cool with MLB rescinding Santana's no-no due to the blown call.
Deftones
06-13-12, 10:46 PM
Well, that and he's playing great.
now. he was horrible the 1st month he was playing. i'm not downplaying anything he's done. it's just tiresome to continue to hear about him on ESPN when there are quite a few guys doing crazy things for their respective teams as a rookie. :shrug:
B.A.
06-13-12, 11:03 PM
I've given up trying to figure out Lance Lynn's status. Earlier this season, he was referred to frequently as a rookie. Then I read somewhere he didn't qualify because of time on the ML roster last year. But I still see some call him a rookie. If he is indeed a rookie, he's got be right at/near the top of the pack at this point. But again, maybe he's not a rookie, and he can just finish 2nd to RA Dickey in the Cy Young voting. :lol:
Either way - he's freakin' awesome. :beer:
Can't believe Scrabble was the first out of the pen and we still won.
starman9000
06-13-12, 11:04 PM
now. he was horrible the 1st month he was playing. i'm not downplaying anything he's done. it's just tiresome to continue to hear about him on ESPN when there are quite a few guys doing crazy things for their respective teams as a rookie. :shrug:
Horrible? :lol: You don't need to make shit up to try to counter the ESPN machine. Praise your guy and leave it at that.
starman9000
06-13-12, 11:06 PM
^ it's idiotic for two reasons:
1) It would have taken an exceptional play (and probably Upton falling down between home and first) for it to be an out. An error is on a play that is deemed a routine out for most fielders.
2) If this is ANY other game, there is not even a question of a hit or error, nor is there an appeal. If this was a 2 hitter, would Collins be appealing the scoring decision or questioning if it was a hit? Why should the circumstances change the decision on hit/error?
MLB should offer to change it... if the Mets are cool with MLB rescinding Santana's no-no due to the blown call.
Yep, not to mention how they're trying to get him the prestige of a no-hitter without the pressure of pitching one in the 7th, 8th, and 9th.
wirefan
06-13-12, 11:08 PM
Harper came up with 2 days left in Apr. In May - .271 AVG, .355 OBP and .505 SLG.
So I understand his .860OPS in May is the "horrible" first month you are referring to? rotfl
At his current level he might be in the discussion for alltime great seasons by a 19 year old. He's currently at a .933 OPS.... the last NL rookie to beat .900 OPS? Some scrub named Pujols.
It's not even close... maybe if he drops 100 point off his OPS Miley enters the discussion. The horrible month you refer to is at a level almost as good as any rookie year in the NL in the last 15 years (except Pujols)
davidh777
06-13-12, 11:17 PM
I've given up trying to figure out Lance Lynn's status. Earlier this season, he was referred to frequently as a rookie. Then I read somewhere he didn't qualify because of time on the ML roster last year. But I still see some call him a rookie. If he is indeed a rookie, he's got be right at/near the top of the pack at this point. But again, maybe he's not a rookie, and he can just finish 2nd to RA Dickey in the Cy Young voting. :lol:
Don't believe anyone who refers to someone as a rookie because chances are good they don't know the details. I'm pretty sure Brian LaHair doesn't qualify but people keep calling him that anyway. Basically anyone who people haven't heard of before this year they will call a rookie.
wirefan
06-13-12, 11:21 PM
^ there's a straight plate appearance limit(for position players) and innings limit (for pitchers) but then there are also some sort of time on the MLB roster rules to determine rookie eligibility
I think the confusion with Lynn is that he pitched out of the bullpen for a while... so if you look at his innings against the rookie innings limit, I'm guessing he was under it last year
From MLB.com:
Determining rookie status:
A player shall be considered a rookie unless, during a previous season or seasons, he has (a) exceeded 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched in the Major Leagues; or (b) accumulated more than 45 days on the active roster of a Major League club or clubs during the period of 25-player limit (excluding time in the military service and time on the disabled list).
My guess is people who are saying or thinking he was a rookie saw he was under 50 innings and thought he was eligible as a result.
Deftones
06-13-12, 11:22 PM
a month was probably an exaggeration, i'd admit. so he came up on april 28th. on may 17th he was hitting .227. yeah, that's fucking domination! sorry, that's only 3 weeks, no the month i quite made the mistake of saying. he had 15 hits and 5 RBI from his call up to May 17th in 66 ABs. since that date he's got 31 hits and and 14 RBI in 78Abs. I stand by my comments that he wasn't all that great the first part of his call up. :shrug:
but more to my point, the fact that ESPN seems to "latch" onto a certain personalities and push them. it further reiterates that ESPN has become the TMZ of sports reporting.
MLBFan24
06-13-12, 11:25 PM
Matt Cain is in beast mode right now.
whotony
06-13-12, 11:27 PM
edit: ^beat me by a bit.
ONe of those alerts for a pitcher is going on after 7 innings in San Fran
wirefan
06-13-12, 11:34 PM
a month was probably an exaggeration, i'd admit. so he came up on april 28th. on may 17th he was hitting .227. yeah, that's fucking domination! sorry, that's only 3 weeks, no the month i quite made the mistake of saying.
he had 15 hits and 5 RBI from his call up to May 17th in 66 ABs. since that date he's got 31 hits and and 14 RBI in 78Abs. I stand by my comments that he wasn't all that great the first part of his call up. :shrug:
You need to broaden your horizon beyond RBI and avg.
On May 17th he had an OPS of .755... in case you are confused (which it seems like you are), that is ABOVE league average - for all players, not just rookies
When above league average, as a rookie, is considered "horrible" I think you really need to reconsider what horrible means. Also when a player plays 2 days in April, the "first month" would normally be considered May, and May 17th is just a shade over half a month.
You are right in that a .755 OPS is not "great", but it is still above average and clearly not "horrible"(which was your original comment), and that's with your now shifting timelines factored in.
starman9000
06-13-12, 11:39 PM
Dude bashed his own face with a bat too. That's pretty horrible.
brainee
06-13-12, 11:44 PM
Harper came up with 2 days left in Apr. In May - .271 AVG, .355 OBP and .505 SLG.
So I understand his .860OPS in May is the "horrible" first month you are referring to? rotfl
At his current level he might be in the discussion for alltime great seasons by a 19 year old. He's currently at a .933 OPS.... the last NL rookie to beat .900 OPS? Some scrub named Pujols.
It's not even close... maybe if he drops 100 point off his OPS Miley enters the discussion. The horrible month you refer to is at a level almost as good as any rookie year in the NL in the last 15 years (except Pujols)
It's the age part that's really impressive to me. It's nearly unprecedented for a teenager to hit this well. It's rare for someone just to be playing regularly as a teenager. It's rarer for them to actually hit well. Even most all-time greats that started playing regularly that young weren't that great as a teenager. Even if Harper tails off and finishes with an OPS in the 0.700-0.800 range (which many will tout as a giant disappointment), it would still be an impressive achievement just holding your own as a teen at the major league level.
whotony
06-13-12, 11:46 PM
ninth inning coming up on mlb network
JumpCutz
06-13-12, 11:46 PM
Matt Cain perfect through 8 innings.
starman9000
06-13-12, 11:49 PM
8 1/3
starman9000
06-13-12, 11:52 PM
A little shaky (at 3rd) to end it, but awesome.
Congrats Mr. Cain.
The season of the pitcher continues.
Autotelik
06-13-12, 11:52 PM
Yeah baby!! Well deserved for Matt Cain.
fumanstan
06-13-12, 11:52 PM
Hate the Giants, but good for him :)
dom56
06-13-12, 11:52 PM
Perfect game. Way to go Matt. :)
Quack
06-13-12, 11:53 PM
:up: Congrats Matt!!!! Was fun to watch!
Autotelik
06-13-12, 11:55 PM
My heart was pounding in the last couple of innings. I really wanted Matt to get this. He's had 3 prior 1-hit shutouts in his career. He really deserved this one. If there is 1 guy on the Giants staff who I wanted to get this, it is Matt.... not Timmy.
starman9000
06-13-12, 11:57 PM
Poor Mets, their protested no-hitter has been wiped from the headlines.
asianxcore
06-13-12, 11:59 PM
While Lincecum is busy figuring out whatever is wrong, it's just another day in the office for Matt Cain.
Fucking awesome! :)
davidh777
06-14-12, 12:00 AM
Congrats to Cain. Maybe he shouldn't have signed his big contract before the season. :)
Mordred
06-14-12, 12:00 AM
Wade Miley gets fucked. Pitches a gem of a game. I hope he gets ROY consideration. He's 7-3 w/ a 2.39 ERA. Bryce Harper will probably win it, though, because the media plays that guy up like no other. I mean he could shit on the field and ESPN would deem it a top 10 play of the day.Is he always that dominating or was this another example of an above average pitcher completely shutting down Texas? They got outplayed and outpitched but got lucky in the end. Napoli's walk was the first Miley had allowed in 66 batters! That's insane. Unfortunately for him it cost him the game.
wirefan
06-14-12, 12:05 AM
:up: Congrats to Cain. Normally a performance like this against the Astros would be a "yeah but...", but the Astros offense this year is decent.
And folks in the media were questioning the Matt Cain extension.... I'm not sure if it was a bit of luck, but it sure looks like the Giants picked the right pitcher to extend.
davidh777
06-14-12, 01:20 AM
What a day for dominating pitchers! All-Star Jason Marquis, picked up by the Padres, shut out the Mariners for 6.1 innings.
starman9000
06-14-12, 06:48 AM
:lol:
cardsfan111
06-14-12, 08:14 AM
Saw Cain was perfect after 5 and went to bed. Happy for him, though I'm having terrible fantasy luck when facing some guys. In my head-to-head league, I faced Hamilton earlier this year when he hit a gazillion home runs in 1 week. This week my opponent has Cain.
bunkaroo
06-14-12, 10:21 AM
See ESPN is asking the question--which was more impressive, Dickey's performance tonight or Santana's no hitter earlier. I think the obvious answer is Dickey's domination this evening. No-hitters are overrated. ;)
Hell, given Humber's performance since his perfect game, I'm inclined to say perfect game are overrated too!
EDIT: I actually posted this before I even knew Cain through one last night. Wow - year of the pitcher indeed.
Mordred
06-14-12, 10:51 AM
Obviously there's a ton of luck involved in perfect games/no-hitters. Nobody would argue that Humber is a great pitcher... just an extremely lucky one for a day. It's repeated performance at and near that level that means something.
BTW, after watching the replays, Dickey deserved a 1-hitter. Wright made a judgement call that he had to bare hand it and the ball took a bad hop on him. Anyone who thinks it ought to be an error is just wanting more no-hitters recorded.
davidh777
06-14-12, 11:00 AM
Humber was also facing a sad sack Mariners lineup that probably raised their averages during that game.
Goat3001
06-14-12, 12:26 PM
BTW, after watching the replays, Dickey deserved a 1-hitter. Wright made a judgement call that he had to bare hand it and the ball took a bad hop on him. Anyone who thinks it ought to be an error is just wanting more no-hitters recorded.
They shouldn't go back and change it but it was an error. His hand touched the ball and he should have gloved it and made the play. Error.
Mordred
06-14-12, 12:50 PM
They shouldn't go back and change it but it was an error. His hand touched the ball and he should have gloved it and made the play. Error.But he didn't think he had time to make the play if he gloved it. He wasn't showboating by bare handing it... and when you try something like that the degree of difficulty goes way up. I see guys try and barehand slow rollers all the time and can't cleanly come up with it, and they're always ruled hits.
According to the rule book if,
in the scorer's judgment, the fielder could have handled the ball with ordinary effort, the official scorer shall charge such fielder with an error. That wasn't ordinary effort and therefore shouldn't be an error.
Goat3001
06-14-12, 01:11 PM
My point is that he could have handled the ball with ordinary effort. He should have gloved it. He made an error in judgement.
davidh777
06-14-12, 01:30 PM
If he does that, I don't think he makes the play on Upton, though.
dvd-4-life
06-14-12, 01:41 PM
Does anyone else watch MASN(Orioles/Nats cable channel).They over the years(because of the ineptness of the Orioles) have come up with some of the most meaningless stats in the history of sport. Note: Winning series record. Is that suppose to mean anything? If you win 3 series 2 games to 1 and lose one series 0 games to three that comes out to winning 3 out of 4 series(but there is no mention of a 6-6 record).
starman9000
06-14-12, 02:13 PM
I think most teams/groups have been talking about winning series for years.
wirefan
06-14-12, 02:37 PM
It's the age part that's really impressive to me. It's nearly unprecedented for a teenager to hit this well. It's rare for someone just to be playing regularly as a teenager. It's rarer for them to actually hit well. Even most all-time greats that started playing regularly that young weren't that great as a teenager. Even if Harper tails off and finishes with an OPS in the 0.700-0.800 range (which many will tout as a giant disappointment), it would still be an impressive achievement just holding your own as a teen at the major league level.
It is scary...and you are dead on about being near league average being a major (and rare) accomplishment at that age.
The recent monster rookie year was Pujols (OPS over 1.000) but he was 21. ARod was age 20 when he had his first monster season (also over 1.000, though age 19 might have technically been his rookie year?).
Looking over at Fangraphs at age 19 seasons over the last 50 years
- Ken Griffey Jr is one of the more recent good ones.... and he had an OPS of .748
- Tony Conigliaro had an OPS of .884 back in 1964
- Cesar Cedeno had an OPS of .790 in 1970
- BJ Upton had an OPS of .733
So one guy over .800 in the last 50 years, noone over .900. Harper is currently at .933...if his OPS drops 100 points it will still be among one of the all time great age 19 seasons. If it drops 200 points it still would be pretty good (and near what Ken Griffey Jr posted)
dvd-4-life
06-14-12, 02:50 PM
I think most teams/groups have been talking about winning series for years.
You could win 4 out 0f 5 series and be only 8-7 so I don't seeing it being a big deal.
starman9000
06-14-12, 02:53 PM
Most baseball stats aren't a big deal.
dvd-4-life
06-14-12, 03:33 PM
Most baseball stats aren't a big deal.
On base Pct is pretty big.
brainee
06-14-12, 03:38 PM
It is scary...and you are dead on about being near league average being a major (and rare) accomplishment at that age.
The recent monster rookie year was Pujols (OPS over 1.000) but he was 21. ARod was age 20 when he had his first monster season (also over 1.000, though age 19 might have technically been his rookie year?).
Looking over at Fangraphs at age 19 seasons over the last 50 years
- Ken Griffey Jr is one of the more recent good ones.... and he had an OPS of .748
- Tony Conigliaro had an OPS of .884 back in 1964
- Cesar Cedeno had an OPS of .790 in 1970
- BJ Upton had an OPS of .733
So one guy over .800 in the last 50 years, noone over .900. Harper is currently at .933...if his OPS drops 100 points it will still be among one of the all time great age 19 seasons. If it drops 200 points it still would be pretty good (and near what Ken Griffey Jr posted)
And only one guy in the entire history of baseball posted an OPS over 0.900: Hall of Famer Mel Ott in 1926 (0.921 with 18 HRs in 435 ABs).
KingSmoth
06-14-12, 05:26 PM
Harper deserves the attention he is getting, there is no reason to think otherwise. I will agree that Trout deserves more though, his stats are better right now but he sure isn't making the headlines.
Mordred
06-14-12, 06:15 PM
And only one guy in the entire history of baseball posted an OPS over 0.900: Hall of Famer Mel Ott in <s>1926</s> 1928 (0.921 with 18 HRs in 435 ABs).FTFY.
That was his third season though (he debuted as a 17 year old in 1926 and had an OPS around .700), so the comparison is moot. Moot I say! ;)
davidh777
06-14-12, 06:25 PM
I dunno, I think I've been hearing Trout's name a lot more over the last few weeks :shrug:
Deftones
06-14-12, 06:55 PM
I dunno, I think I've been hearing Trout's name a lot more over the last few weeks :shrug:
Did you not see the ESPN article about Harper the other day? one of the canadian beat writers asked him if he'd celebrate by drinking a beer after his HR and he made some stupid comment. apparently it went "viral" on twitter and was front page news on ESPN. really? i mean we really need to know this? fucking horseshit sports reporting.
davidh777
06-14-12, 07:00 PM
Did you not see the ESPN article about Harper the other day? one of the canadian beat writers asked him if he'd celebrate by drinking a beer after his HR and he made some stupid comment. apparently it went "viral" on twitter and was front page news on ESPN. really? i mean we really need to know this? fucking horseshit sports reporting.
I missed it. I try to avoid their site as much as possible because it's too annoying.
Buy: