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View Full Version : Prometheus aka Прометей (Scott, 2012) — The Reviews Thread


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OldBoy
05-30-12, 03:26 PM
reviews are starting to come in and premieres begin this week in other nations i believe...

Please continue pre-release discussion here. (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/555799-prometheus-2012-d-scott-fassbender-rapace-theron-wilson-elba-46.html)

Movie:
"Prometheus" (Starring: Michael Fassbender, Charlize Theron, Idris Elba, Noomi Rapace, Guy Pearce, Logan Marshall-Green)

Release Date:
6/8/2012

Rating:
R (for intense sequences of sci-fi violence and action including some graphic images, brief language, screams and outrage that this is not an 'Alien' prequel or is it? throughout)

Running Time:
124min. (2h. 04m.)

Budget:
$120 million (estimated)

IMDb Synopsis:
A team of scientists journey through the universe on the spaceship "Prometheus" on a voyage to investigate Alien life forms. The team of scientists becomes stranded on an Alien world, and as they struggle to survive it becomes clear that the horrors they experience are not just a threat to themselves, but to all of mankind.

IMDb Info and Rating:
8.3 (5,336 votes as of 6/03/12) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1446714/)

Rotten Tomatoes:
Fresh:33 Rotten:09 (79% as of 6/03/12) (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/prometheus_2012/)

Metacritic:
62 metascore ('Generally favorable reviews' as of 6/03/12) (http://www.metacritic.com/movie/prometheus)

Trailer:
<<object width="720" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.traileraddict.com/emd/56100"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.traileraddict.com/emd/56100" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" wmode="transparent" allowfullscreen="true" width="720" height="349"></embed></object>

Poster Art:
[http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/scott1598/Movie%20Posters/prometheus_wallpaper_by_turbizl-d4wkcwf.jpg

Dr. DVD
05-30-12, 08:30 PM
Variety guy didn't like it, but he typically reviews things based on what he thinks are their box-office potential. Given the subject matter, it could be limited.

WeylandYutani
05-31-12, 03:58 PM
Kinda disappointed in the reviews so far. Even the most positive ones point out flaws in the script, characters, etc. God I hope this doesn't suck.

The Antipodean
05-31-12, 05:03 PM
With the insane expectations of fandom it's kind of hard to imagine how this WON'T let down many of them.

Josh-da-man
05-31-12, 08:06 PM
I read a plot summary on wikipedia, and my reaction was -meh-.

clappj
06-01-12, 10:27 AM
Please continue pre-release discussion here. (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/555799-prometheus-2012-d-scott-fassbender-rapace-theron-wilson-elba-46.html)


Yeah, nothing but reviews in here so far. :lol:

musick
06-02-12, 04:58 PM
why isn't all this talk in the discussion thread

Hokeyboy
06-02-12, 08:52 PM
because art is dead

Supermallet
06-02-12, 10:06 PM
because art is dead

Who knew a lack of man on man action in straight porn could kill someone.

Hokeyboy
06-02-12, 10:35 PM
these are hard times. :(

Supermallet
06-02-12, 11:24 PM
these are hard times. :(

Not hard enough for art. :(

RocShemp
06-03-12, 12:15 AM
Who knew a lack of man on man action in straight porn could kill someone.

Is that what drove him to swallow all those pills? Or Philip Seymore Hoffman's thinly veiled impersonation of art in (bad post)?

Cellar Door
06-03-12, 02:32 PM
Damnit, I keep opening this thread expecting to see some actual reviews.

TGM
06-03-12, 02:36 PM
all this hype and nobody went to see it.

Supermallet
06-03-12, 03:39 PM
Part of me thinks it's worth merging this with the existing Prometheus thread and letting someone start a new reviews thread when there are actual reviews to discuss.

Thoughts?

Solid Snake
06-03-12, 03:42 PM
Roll out w/ it, Supermallet. Merge the two into one.

Supermallet
06-03-12, 04:23 PM
Okay, I moved 46 posts out of this thread. From this point on let's keep the discussion to reviews or man-on-man action in straight porn, thanks.

Supermallet
06-03-12, 09:01 PM
Okay, here's an actual review from AICN (mild spoilers): http://www.aintitcool.com/node/56182

The guy levels a lot of criticism at Lindelof, and rightfully so. I was worried when I saw he was attached. I don't like his style, and it sounds like it's in full bloom here. Hopefully the visuals are enough to overcome what may be serious script deficiencies.

Osiris3657
06-04-12, 09:00 AM
I've lowered my expectations quite a bit with these lukewarm reviews. I'm still looking forward to it, but I'm not expecting it to be the game changer I was initially hoping it would be.

RichC2
06-04-12, 09:09 AM
I guess because I didn't think Alien was the masterpiece some people claim it to be, but I just expected this to be a visually impressive, entertaining summer movie.

Solid Snake
06-04-12, 11:31 AM
I guess because I didn't think Alien was the masterpiece some people claim it to be, but I just expected this to be a visually impressive, entertaining summer movie.

I'm not an Alien fanatic but do hold it as a masterpiece, I guess. I hate that word actually...anyway...may I ask? Why don't you hold it in high regard?

RichC2
06-04-12, 01:34 PM
I'm not an Alien fanatic but do hold it as a masterpiece, I guess. I hate that word actually...anyway...may I ask? Why don't you hold it in high regard?

A large part of it has to do with me seeing it in my 20s (like 5 years ago) other than a little earlier -- by that point I had seen so many movies that followed a similar recipe that it was hard to sympathize with it being one of, if not the, originals. The movie tries to pull you in with atmosphere and dread but it never connected for me. Well made with some impressive visuals, especially for the time, but never anything particularly special in my book. It's a small story told in a big world that fits a little too well into B/Horror movie conventions.

slop101
06-04-12, 02:01 PM
Well written review here (http://badassdigest.com/2012/06/03/movie-review-in-space-no-one-can-hear-prometheus-disappoint/), that found the movie to be a major disappointment - seems like that's how everyone feels about this movie... what a bummer.

[for length] Whether you consider Prometheus a prequel to Alien or not (and I don’t know how you couldn’t), it’s important to judge the movie on its own terms. And on its own terms Prometheus generally fails. It is a magnificently made movie based on an elementally bad script, a gorgeous movie that is too stupid to understand how dumb it is. It’s a disappointment.

I toyed with the idea that Prometheus’ massive disappointment is purposeful. In the film a group of scientists heads to an unexplored planet hoping to meet up with the beings who created human life on Earth, a group of musclehead ETs called The Engineers. When the scientists arrive they find that the answers they sought are either not forthcoming or are vaguely disappointing, and I wondered if the movie intended to replicate that sense of deflation in the audience.

But if that had been the point, Prometheus could have done so without also being a mess. A mess compounded by the fact that the first thirty or forty minutes show enormous promise. There’s a sequence where David, the android played by Michael Fassbender, wanders the space ship Prometheus for two years as the crew hypersleeps, and he plays basketball and watches Lawrence of Arabia and dyes his hair to be like Peter O’Toole. It’s a fascinating bit, elevated by Fassbender’s extraordinarily precise performance, and it hints at a different, better film that is keenly observational and layered. There’s another sequence where the scientists explore an ancient alien craft and come upon a vast chamber full of vases, dominated by an enormous statue of a humanoid noggin that resembles the Olmec Heads. This moment is awe-inspiring and spine-tingling with its sense of profound mystery and sinister wonder... but that soon all fades away as the film falls back on hack action beats, booming score and character cliches.

Ridley Scott has made a beautiful, atmospheric film, utilizing 3D sparingly and well. There are shots of planets in orbit that stun, and there are moments of nail-biting anxiety that are perfectly put together. But the visuals of the film cannot hold up the whole thing, and the script (by Damon Lindelof from an original draft by Jon Spaights) is a completely unsound foundation. The script is incompetent in a way that is hard to believe while watching the film; characters reach out to pet obviously scary space snakes, characters speak in bad, baldly expositional declarations, characters have no character. Once the team gets to the vase chamber Prometheus slowly begins unraveling, and the terrible dialogue and uninspired acting that was merely a nuisance during the more interesting first act becomes an unbearable problem. Finally by the end the movie has turned into a truly moronic monster mash that resembles the final chase of any given Friday the 13th film more than anything else in Scott’s ouevre.

The bad script is doubly disappointing because it seems convinced that having characters again and again say ‘Don’t you care about the Big Questions?’ somehow counts as addressing the Big Questions. The opening scene of the movie - before the title even comes up - shows us that the Engineers (roided out aliens who wear Space Jockey suits) did indeed seed Earth with their own DNA, so the question is not whether life on Earth came from elsewhere, but what the meaning of that is, and who our creators are. These questions are never addressed at all - they seem to be left for the sequel that is being ham-handedly set up in the final moments - but the film also never addresses what it means for us as humans to discover our origins. There are a couple of scenes where Noomi Rapace, playing an English scientist with a Nordic accent, fumbles with a cross she wears, but that’s not an exploration of anything except jewelry.

The script is spiritually retarded, which isn’t surprising coming from Lindelof, whose ending of Lost had all the characters gather in a non-denominational church in the gauzy afterlife. Rapace’s faith is explained in a flashback to her father (inexplicably played by Patrick Wilson with an English accent, getting about two minutes of screen time) where he says when you die you go someplace nice. That’s the movie’s entire examination of faith, buttressed with a scene where Rapace keeps wearing that cross despite having the creation myth (which most intelligent people of faith already view as a nice story, not as a fact) disproven to her.

There’s not much else to say about Rapace. She was horrible in the latest Sherlock Holmes movie but is less bad here; she’s simply generic and dull, but it’s hard to tell how much of that comes from her and how much comes from the script (which has her alternately as an archeologist, a physician and a xenobiologist). Rapace gets the most backstory of anyone in the movie, but that doesn’t add up to character. She’s certainly no Ripley.

Charlize Theron is fine as an evil bitch character who, in my opinion, isn’t an evil bitch. Everybody acts like she is, but she makes judgment calls (like not letting a guy infected with a horrible alien disease back on the ship) that seem fairly reasonable. I kept waiting for the moment where her true evil would be revealed, but it turns out she just doesn’t like everybody else on the mission and she thinks it’s a dumb expedition altogether. Fair enough.

The real standout in the movie is Fassbender. As I said earlier there’s a better version of this movie that focuses more on his David, including one that bothers to explain what the fuck he’s up to the whole film. He’s not quite calculatingly evil like Ash in Alien, and he’s not quite the heroic guy like Bishop in Aliens. He seems sort of mischievous, mostly. There’s never a sense of why he’s doing the things he’s doing - things that cause trouble for the scientists, although malice doesn’t appear to be part of the equation. Honestly, his character arc is baffling and nonsensical, and it isn’t helped any by the fact that the script decides all we really want from an Alien movie is for the exact same things to happen with androids again and again and again.

All of that said, Fassbender is great. He’s a truly magnetic screen presence, and even if I have no clear idea of any of David’s motivations the character is fun to watch. Fassbender seems to be the only actor in the piece who believes he’s in a very good movie, and it’s almost enough to convince you likewise.

There are some other okay performances - Idris Elba captures the working class aesthetic of Alien perfectly - but most of the characters are totally undercooked and poorly written. There’s a geologist played by Sean Harris (who I quite liked in the Red Riding films) that is simply a schizophrenic character who makes no sense from scene to scene. I don’t blame Harris, I blame the script, which places bizarre and contradictory words in his mouth. There are other characters who get a great hero moment at the end but who are so sidelined most of the movie you barely know they exist. And there’s a sequence where a monster attacks the crew, but you have no clue who is being attacked because they’re all tertiary characters who have said and done nothing. Guy Pearce shows up in shockingly shitty old age make-up for no good reason - maybe they’re planning on de-aging him in a future film or something, but that’s no excuse for not simply hiring a competent older actor today.

A number of baffling, stupid decisions in the movie seem predicated on stretching the story out to a planned trilogy. That’s always a bad, bad idea, and it’s truly terrible here. By the time Prometheus ends you don’t feel like you’ve seen a story, you feel like you’ve seen a prologue - but you also don’t want to see any more. You’re quite ready for the movie to end, even though absolutely nothing has been solved, resolved, answered or even adequately addressed. Buy a ticket to the next one if you want to find out why you should have cared about anything happening in this one!

I’d recommend seeing Prometheus in 3D on a big screen as it’s a great looking, well shot movie. But that’s all that it is - Prometheus is a totally hollow piece of design work, even by Ridley Scott standards. In the myth Prometheus brought fire to man; as written by Damon Lindelof he’s just bringing an ornately carved piece of firewood with a simplistic, reductive homily written on it. It’s lovely but utterly useless.

RichC2
06-04-12, 02:12 PM
^ Yet it is still getting generally good reviews. The biggest issue I see is they try to over-explain the stuff nobody cares about and skimp on the rest.

WeylandYutani
06-04-12, 05:10 PM
all this hype and nobody went to see it.


Huh? It debuted strong overseas. In the UK it's Ridley's best opener ever.

Troy Stiffler
06-04-12, 05:11 PM
^ Yet it is still getting generally good reviews. The biggest issue I see is they try to over-explain the stuff nobody cares about and skimp on the rest.

Whoa. So "Lost" really did spill over into Prometheus?

Ah well, I'm a sucker for that ambiguous, cryptically vague narrative. It does get old. But I think that I can hang on for two hours.

Solid Snake
06-04-12, 07:04 PM
I got a free ticket that'll pay for the 3D price. Soooooo...I'm good. If it's merely good..well at least I didn't pay for it.

devilshalo
06-04-12, 07:04 PM
Got a chance to see it tonight while I'm in the UK. I guess I wanted more of the xenomorphs and the explanation of what they are is really vague. Also there are continuity issues that took me out of it in spots. The self sacrifice at the beginning of the movie by the meta-human (for lack of a better word) didn't help and just served to confuse me when it came to David giving some of the liquid to Charles. Was he to evolve at a rapid rate? Was it the introduction of the Xenomorph DNA? There's a lot to play with to make the movie more cohesive, but it comes out a mess.

Mr. Cinema
06-04-12, 07:16 PM
A few more positive reviews have pushed it back up to 81% on RT. 48 reviews total.

Burnt Thru
06-05-12, 05:07 PM
If nothing else this movie looks stunning. The biggest problem is probably the lack of proper characters and the cliched horror movie moments. Plenty to admire though and it's certainly not a let down. Well, not to me anyway..

Supermallet
06-06-12, 04:08 PM
I thought this was almost a complete stinker. Fassbender is exceptional, but the plot is awful. The characters act irrationally, and there are too many of them to begin with. The premise really is exactly the same as AvP, and the end reminded me more of Alien: Resurrection than anything else. Ridley Scott seems to have completely forgotten what made the first film scary, because this movie is big, loud and overly complicated. It has none of the elegance or grace of Alien, and the villain(s) are ridiculous.

I knew this movie wouldn't be as good as Alien, but I'm very disappointed in how badly it turned out. Somebody stop Ridley before he ruins Blade Runner as well.

Dr. DVD
06-06-12, 04:11 PM
I knew this movie wouldn't be as good as Alien, but I'm very disappointed in how badly it turned out. Somebody stop Ridley before he ruins Blade Runner as well.

You've got a film degree, use it for all it has been helpful for in life so far and make something better.

Supermallet
06-06-12, 04:50 PM
I don't like making movies. That doesn't mean I can't criticize those who do.

pinata242
06-06-12, 04:58 PM
I'll see it tomorrow, but do you think there might be salvation in your view with a Director's Cut? Does it feel like there might have been any outside tinkering or that it was meant to be a longer movie?

Burnt Thru
06-06-12, 05:21 PM
The movie isn't as bad as supermallet is making out. It has its flaws certainly but there are plenty of positives, and I think it ends up in credit overall. It's a fun movie when taken on its own and only really fails completely if your expectations are sky high due to the universe of films (first 2, anyway) it is associated with.

Supermallet
06-06-12, 05:21 PM
I think a director's cut could help aspects of the film, but there are some fundamental storytelling flaws in the film that I can't imagine any director's cut would fix. I could be wrong.

Also there are several instances of absolutely awful CGI that seemed out of place in such a big budget film.

pinata242
06-06-12, 05:27 PM
It's a fun movie when taken on its own and only really fails completely if your expectations are sky high due to the universe of films (first 2, anyway) it is associated with.

Well then I'm fucked!

Mr. Cinema
06-06-12, 05:27 PM
And is the 3D quality good?

Supermallet
06-06-12, 05:42 PM
I thought the 3D was well utilized, yes.

Supermallet
06-06-12, 06:20 PM
Oh, and I know I harp on this a lot, but creature design really is in the doldrums these days. Prometheus uses a lot of Giger-inspired stuff for the ship (and obviously the space jockeys are taken straight from Alien), but when they introduce new elements, they look like the same crappy JJ Abrams-inspired junk we've seen far too much of lately.

Dr. DVD
06-06-12, 06:36 PM
I don't think JJ Abrams stuff was junk. It wasn't top of heap, but it wasn't junk.

I think the key to this will be keeping my expectations modest and just enjoying it for what it is, not what I thought it might be.

Supermallet
06-06-12, 06:50 PM
The JJ Abrams school of creature design is "everything and the kitchen sink". His style of creatures have an uncountable amount of appendages, eyes, and openings. There are no lines to draw the eye, as these creatures are masses of conflicting movement. There's no grace, no sense of aesthetics. Compare that to the Xenomorph or even the Predator and it's no contest. Why anyone would make a movie in the Alien universe and not use Giger-style designs for the creatures is beyond me.

It's even more incongruous because all of the architectural designs are 100% out of the Giger playbook, and upon looking it up it appears that Giger did do some building designs for the film (which is probably why some of the stuff looks like it was re-used from Giger's old designs for Jodorowsky's production of Dune that never got off the ground).

Edit: And apparently the creature designer, Neville Page, was also the creature designer for Super 8.

Supermallet
06-06-12, 07:40 PM
Okay, after thinking about it, this is how I think Prometheus could have been a good, nay, a great film (only read if you've seen the movie):

Forget Shaw and the other archaeologist. They add absolutely nothing to the movie. Make this an Oedipus/Elektra story with David and Meredith. Weyland is dying, he doesn't have faith that Meredith has what it takes to follow in his footsteps. He adores David, but David is a robot and can't take over the company. Meredith is desperate to gain Weyland's approval, whereas David is more concerned about proving that he is superior to his "father," although he masks his true intentions. Meredith suggests the expedition when scientists discover evidence of a technologically advanced race in another star system. They go with the express intention of learning the alien secrets to prolong Weyland's life, although David secretly has plans to foil the mission so as to ensure Weyland dies and knows that it's David's doing.

Drop most of the faceless crew. Keep Idris Elba and develop his relationship with Meredith. Make her the focus of the film, as she's way more interesting than Shaw, who shouldn't even be in the movie. You can have Idris Elba's character being the one who pushes the questions about the origins of life, give his character more depth. I'd rather have four or five characters I cared a lot about rather than 12 I didn't give two shits about.

Also have them establish a base camp inside the alien structure. Going back and forth to and from the ship kills the momentum. Keep the Engineers as aliens. Have them be fused with the ship and specialized in their function. They should be biomechanical. Have them actually be working on creating the Xenomorphs, not this generic black goo that makes random aggressive mutations. And the end of the film should be the Xenomorph bursting out of the chest of the Engineer in the chair, not in some escape pod on another planet.

Those are just some thoughts that I think would have made a vastly better film.

Dr. DVD
06-06-12, 07:57 PM
Is Giger given any credit, since they took so much from him?

WeylandYutani
06-06-12, 08:21 PM
Is Giger given any credit, since they took so much from him?

Yes.

Supermallet
06-06-12, 08:59 PM
From what I read, Giger did do some mural and building designs from the film, plus his designs for the Space Jockey ship is re-used in its entirety, so yes, he gets credit.

Burnt Thru
06-07-12, 04:15 AM
The space jockeys are mostly new though since we haven't seen them without their helmets and suits on up to this point.

It's frustrating that many things could have been improved about this movie, though at the same time there are still plenty of impressive moments and nice little ideas. Flawed certainly, but better than Sunshine - which had the same oriental fella in it.

Gunde
06-07-12, 05:06 AM
Also there are several instances of absolutely awful CGI that seemed out of place in such a big budget film.
Well that's just the way it is today. Aside from the Transformers movies most big budget Hollywood flicks seem to have really shoddy CGI in places.

Osiris3657
06-07-12, 08:20 AM
Well Ebert loved it, gave it 4 out of 4 stars. That makes me feel a little better.

Mr. Cinema
06-07-12, 09:03 AM
This little blurb from Ty Burr of the Boston Globe was pretty funny.

"Watching "Prometheus" is like opening a deluxe gift box from Tiffany's to find a mug from the dollar store."

RocShemp
06-07-12, 09:59 AM
Well that's just the way it is today. Aside from the Transformers movies most big budget Hollywood flicks seem to have really shoddy CGI in places.

Even the TF films fall prey to the ocassional bits of shoddy CGI work. Michael Bay even acknowledged in the audio commentary of ROTF how crappy the CGI was for the final fight between Optimus Prime and the Fallen.

Supermallet
06-07-12, 10:05 AM
The space jockeys are mostly new though since we haven't seen them without their helmets and suits on up to this point.

It's frustrating that many things could have been improved about this movie, though at the same time there are still plenty of impressive moments and nice little ideas. Flawed certainly, but better than Sunshine - which had the same oriental fella in it.

I have no love for Sunshine but I can't really say this was better. At least that movie had the sense to have a small number of characters and a singular villain.

RocShemp
06-07-12, 10:11 AM
I enjoyed Sunshine but felt the movie would have been better without the tacked on villain.

Supermallet
06-07-12, 10:16 AM
Oh, I agree. But this movie has multiple villains, which makes it feel even less focused than Sunshine.

B.A.
06-07-12, 10:16 AM
I thought this was almost a complete stinker. Fassbender is exceptional, but the plot is awful. The characters act irrationally, and there are too many of them to begin with. The premise really is exactly the same as AvP, and the end reminded me more of Alien: Resurrection than anything else. Ridley Scott seems to have completely forgotten what made the first film scary, because this movie is big, loud and overly complicated. It has none of the elegance or grace of Alien, and the villain(s) are ridiculous.

I knew this movie wouldn't be as good as Alien, but I'm very disappointed in how badly it turned out. Somebody stop Ridley before he ruins Blade Runner as well.
Now I'm disheartened.


73% at RT a little while ago.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/prometheus_2012/

B.A.
06-07-12, 10:18 AM
I think a director's cut could help aspects of the film, but there are some fundamental storytelling flaws in the film that I can't imagine any director's cut would fix. I could be wrong.
Director's Cut elevated Scott's Kingdom of Heaven. It went from good to fantastic.

Supermallet
06-07-12, 10:20 AM
Yes, I agree, the DC of KoH is one of Scott's best films. As I said, a DC of Prometheus could make it better, but I have a hard time seeing it being great given the choices they've made.

B.A.
06-07-12, 10:25 AM
I'm not the Alien fanatic that my brother-in-law is. He has been dying to see this for months - hope he isn't disappointed.

Dr. DVD
06-07-12, 02:32 PM
Now I'm disheartened.


73% at RT a little while ago.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/prometheus_2012/

What's important to note is that it's at 78% with the top critics (what most people will be reading) at this point and isn't being universally panned as much as praised for visuals and criticized for lack of good writing.

My guess is that it will end up a tad north of 60% and the consensus will be it is a visual treat with little else to offer.

RichC2
06-07-12, 03:00 PM
What I tend to look for is what the scores are -- a movie can score 99% based off 3 star reviews and literally be an "ok" movie, this movie is actually polarizing with a lot of very high scores and quite a few very low. I prefer that.

devilshalo
06-07-12, 03:38 PM
So how did LV 223 become LV 426? There was just a lot of action sequences that were thrown in just to have them with no cohesive overall plot.

Lt Ripley
06-07-12, 04:05 PM
So how did LV 223 become LV 426? There was just a lot of action sequences that were thrown in just to have them with no cohesive overall plot.

Many planets have multiple moons.

Solid Snake
06-07-12, 04:32 PM
but.....it's the same place no? How would multiple moons switch up the location name?

Supermallet
06-07-12, 05:29 PM
It is not the same place.

Edit: Or it might be the same gas giant and LV 223 and LV 426 are two of the moons that orbit said planet.

Lt Ripley
06-07-12, 05:37 PM
It is not the same place.

Edit: Or it might be the same gas giant and LV 223 and LV 426 are two of the moons that orbit said planet.

Yep, it is a moon.

Solid Snake
06-07-12, 06:15 PM
It is not the same place.

Edit: Or it might be the same gas giant and LV 223 and LV 426 are two of the moons that orbit said planet.

so let get this straight...that downed Spacejockey ship in Alien...isn't the same one in Prometheus? 2 different locations...w/ a fucked up space jockey ship?

Supermallet
06-07-12, 06:18 PM
Apparently so. Or Lindelof couldn't bother to fact check.

RichC2
06-07-12, 06:23 PM
Yes, they're not actually related and this isn't actually a prequel. I realize that's a M Night Shyamalan-level twist that could potentially be a spoiler, only you know, it's not.

Supermallet
06-07-12, 06:25 PM
Well, it's a prequel in that it takes place before Alien but in the same universe. It's not a prequel in that it doesn't directly tie in to the events of Alien.

Solid Snake
06-07-12, 06:32 PM
Apparently so. Or Lindelof couldn't bother to fact check.

ok, so I haven't seen it but I've read the plot from Wikipedia cuz I'm a whore like that. So Shaw w/ David(ish) will travel to the Spacejocky planet to confront them to know why man was created and why they want to destroy it? So...somehow that will lead to LV 426? But they said that that one would have LESS to do w/ Alien. Uh.....hrmmmm

Supermallet
06-07-12, 06:33 PM
I might actually see a sequel if they don't bother to tie it in to the rest of the Alien series. If they say "Okay, so Alien was the springboard for the last movie, but now we're in uncharted territory while the events of Alien happen elsewhere" it could be cool.

RichC2
06-07-12, 06:35 PM
My last comment just got erased in a fury of system lock-ups, yaah. But I actually agree it'll benefit if they veer from the Alien series. But I think they're realizing how many "Alien" fans are still out there and may not have the balls to do it.

Supermallet
06-07-12, 06:38 PM
What they should do is say "Okay, Prometheus is its own thing. It takes place in the same universe, but you won't see Ripley in these movies, or Shaw in the Alien movies." Then release a Prometheus sequel AND a new Alien movie.

Solid Snake
06-07-12, 06:39 PM
I might actually see a sequel if they don't bother to tie it in to the rest of the Alien series. If they say "Okay, so Alien was the springboard for the last movie, but now we're in uncharted territory while the events of Alien happen elsewhere" it could be cool.

The core idea of who created us is such a greater mystery than anything Alien related. If what seems like this movie pushes to the side and is the sequel to it..then, yes...I'd be very game cuz I'd like something bigger to be explored.

Solid Snake
06-07-12, 06:43 PM
What they should do is say "Okay, Prometheus is its own thing. It takes place in the same universe, but you won't see Ripley in these movies, or Shaw in the Alien movies." Then release a Prometheus sequel AND a new Alien movie.

explain this part cuz Alien is kind of done, no? And unless you want an answer to LV 426 being your Alien film...I'm not sure how else that would would work.

Dr. DVD
06-07-12, 06:55 PM
Found a midnight showing!! Going to take that in tonight and IMAX tomorrow with my $10 certificate. If it sucks, I'll just get an alcohol buzz before IMAX.

Supermallet
06-07-12, 07:00 PM
explain this part cuz Alien is kind of done, no? And unless you want an answer to LV 426 being your Alien film...I'm not sure how else that would would work.

I'm sure some enterprising filmmaker will find a way to resurrect the Alien franchise.

Dr. DVD
06-07-12, 07:04 PM
^ There was a comic series of Alien vs. Predator vs. Terminator . Fox just needs to buy the rights.

Supermallet
06-07-12, 07:08 PM
Zack Snyder can include them in the new Superman film.

Solid Snake
06-07-12, 07:12 PM
but that's WB.

Supermallet
06-07-12, 07:17 PM
It was a joke. There was a Superman vs. Aliens comic a while back.

Dr. DVD
06-07-12, 07:17 PM
At the risk of being flamed:

-I think Zack Snyder's style might benefit these franchises at this point.

Supermallet
06-07-12, 07:21 PM
Really? I think it would look a lot like the first AvP movie. There's very little difference between Snyder and WS Anderson.

Solid Snake
06-07-12, 07:30 PM
It was a joke. There was a Superman vs. Aliens comic a while back.

I was being sarcastic.

Supermallet
06-07-12, 07:37 PM
Don't you dare lie to me!

Dr. DVD
06-07-12, 08:51 PM
FWIW, the TV ads are now playing up the Alien connection. Figured it was only a matter of time...

Supermallet
06-07-12, 09:00 PM
Examples?

Supermallet
06-07-12, 11:51 PM
I'm watching it a second time for work. It's even worse. The characters make the dumbest decisions. They all deserve their horrible fates.

Cardiff Giant11
06-08-12, 12:03 AM
Examples?

I saw one on ESPN during the NBA eastern conference finals. It started out like "before Alien...there was PROMETHEUS" and then it showed David making some comment about

the fact that shaw is knocked up with the crazy squid/cuddlefish hugger. though it may be a line that's out of context or not in the movie.

Supermallet
06-08-12, 12:54 AM
Jason Bailey agrees with me: http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/56460/prometheus-3d/

So does Jamie S. Rich: http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/56423/prometheus/

Tyler Foster, on the other hand, loved it: http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/56462/prometheus-imax-3d/

Dr. DVD
06-08-12, 03:01 AM
Saw it. Right now I'm tired and my impression is 50% WOW!!! and 50% WTF?!? Guess that averages to about three stars. More later.

Patman
06-08-12, 03:15 AM
I'm still digesting it, but I thought it was a weird film, with great production design, and direction was solid, but the script is a head-scratcher, and my main gripe is that David's (Michael Fassbender) motivations are an enigma, but the script basically used him to push the plot along in the last 2/3 of the film.

For now, I give it 2.75 stars, or a grade of B-.

Lt Ripley
06-08-12, 03:42 AM
I see a directors cut coming. Some parts were so rushed it was head scratching.

Supermallet
06-08-12, 03:47 AM
There's definitely a director's cut in the works. I'll watch it to see what Fassbender and Theron stuff gets added back in.

anomynous
06-08-12, 03:50 AM
So other than David's actions being unprovoked and the planet not being LV-426, the only other thing that I don't get is..........was Vickers an android or human? I'm 90% sure human, but there's always the possibility

Supermallet
06-08-12, 03:55 AM
If she's a robot, she's far more advanced than David. She shows a lot of emotion for someone who tries to be so in control.

Labor
06-08-12, 05:10 AM
Movie was good, not quite Alien/Aliens good, but still good.

Fantastic visuals and use of 3D, script needed less Lindelof.

Paul_SD
06-08-12, 05:57 AM
Jason Bailey agrees with me: http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/56460/prometheus-3d/

So does Jamie S. Rich: http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/56423/prometheus/



Hitler was disappointed as well (spoilers warning)

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/X3BV2u8YWps" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Matthew Chmiel
06-08-12, 05:57 AM
I'm still mixed on it after getting out of the midnight IMAX screening.

One one hand, it's not Alien or Aliens. On the other hand, it's not Alien 3 or Alien: Resurrection. I didn't really give a flying fuck about any of the characters, but it's a far more beautiful looking film than the past entries in the franchise.

Also, based upon the trailers, I thought Ridley Scott shot this in 2.40:1? However, the IMAX presentation was 1.78:1. Is that the original aspect ratio or did Fox open up the mattes a la Sony Underworld: Evolution or did Fox crop it?

WeylandYutani
06-08-12, 06:25 AM
Caught a packed midnight show last night, in standard 2D. Will let it digest before delving into it fully later today. There is a hell of a lot in the film to discuss, I foresee at least a half dozen pages devoted to theories on the true nature of the "black goo" alone. Some random initial thoughts to throw out there for now: Overall I liked the movie and may see it again in 3D sometime this weekend. That said, the flaws here are impossible to ignore and I totally understand and get those who don't buy it at all.

Ridley Scott once again proves that he is one of the all-time best visualists in the business and is a master at set-pieces, but the man cannot tell a good screenplay from a bad one to save his life.

The characters in this movie have to be some of the stupidest scientists I've seen in a modern sci-fi film. For all the talk about "intelligent science fiction" in the days leading up to this, the movie seemed really dumbed down in spots. Many questions and character motÍvations are brought forth and left unanswered, which I liked. But then you'll occasionally get the extremely odd scene of expository dialogue that seems like it was filmed and inserted only after a disastrous test screening.

The score is completely unnecessary and mostly consists of this "scientific exploration" refrain that's repeated every fifteen minutes and during scenes it has no business being in. Complete silence would have preferable.

Did I mention I liked the movie? Will write more later.

mdc3000
06-08-12, 09:28 AM
I fucking loved it - saw the midnight IMAX and thought visually, it was excellent. A lot of great production design and the 3D was very immersive. I liked that there were a lot of big ideas they through out there, even if none of them really get fleshed out.

I feel a lot of the characters did make stupid decisions, but in a movie like this, I'm fine with it to a point. Sure we don't really care about many of the characters (Nothing in the film makes me care for them, but I bring baggage of already liking people like Elba to the film) and there were a few moments that really needed to be expanded (like what was happening to Holloway and when the mineral dude showed up for that final time). Fassbender stole the movie, even if his motivations are mysterious. The special effects were great though, and I really like almost anything to do with the Engineers and how they were complete pricks ;)

I wasn't a fan of the score overall, but the rest of the sound design was great. I need to see it again to take it all in and probably will reserve my star rating until then, but even when I was frustrated with the film, I was still having a great time, so I can overlook most of the flaws that are clearly there. I am eager for a sequel and hope this makes enough cash to make one possible.

Dr. DVD
06-08-12, 10:35 AM
I have to say, I kind of got chills when David was imitating Peter O'Toole. Fassbender is fucking amazing.

Upon reflection, it wasn't as bad as I thought. Going again to see it in IMAX and with the knowledge that it's not a direct prequel to Alien .

I too had a problem with what happened with Vickers. She seemed a somewhat pointless character whose sole function is walking around in spandex for eye-humping purposes, which I've noticed is consistent with many of her roles (Aeon Flux, 2 Days in the Valley).


One possible theory I do have that makes her interesting:

Vickers is a Nexus 6 replicant, which last I checked was not a robot like David but a synthetic being. She was clearly displaying Nexus 6 level emotions toward the end, unlike David, and was most likely under the impression that she was Weyland's real daughter via the memory implants.

Take that FWIW. Kind of interesting that Scott wants to re-visit the worlds of both of his sci-fi efforts so close together, don't you think? Maybe he's trying to tie everything together.

Also:

Kind of letdown that the Engineers were a bunch of intergalactic douchebags. I guess we are to infer that every ship had its own share of bio-weapons and the one in Alien is another such ship where stuff went awry. These guys weren't really that clever I guess, if this stuff keeps happening. Does this mean David and Shaw flew off in a ship also full of weapons at the end ? Not too safe IMO.

macnorton
06-08-12, 11:27 AM
I too went to a midnight IMAX 3D showing. I loved it!

Right from the onset, this is an Alien prequel film....although it also isn't. There is so much going on in this, but you really did not need to be a fan of the Alien franchise to get what was going on.

Rapace was good, is she future leading lady material, that I can't say. Fassbender on the other hand steals the movie with very little effort. I also loved the fact he looked like Bowie, which all of cohorts with me last night did not even pick up on.

Another aspect I loved was how practical most of the effects in the film were. Can you tell when there is CG, yes. But for the most part, it wasn't like an overpowering Michael Bay CG-fest. And the sound design for this was, pardon the pun, out of this world. I have always liked films that make you feel like you are in them. This one did it perfectly. I do expect some Oscar nods.

The one thing I did not like was the actual 3D. While it is used perfectly, it felt a little off. Now this could be because I wear glasses, but I did experience some dizziness while watching. But Scott totally understands how 3D works and uses it to create atmosphere, rather then a plot device.

This is without a doubt one of the best films of 2012 so far. I hope the home video release comes out before Christmas.

Shazam
06-08-12, 12:20 PM
Ooh, it's a weird mainstream Hollywood movie? I like weird mainstream Hollywood movies.

Supermallet
06-08-12, 12:36 PM
Now that more people have seen it, I'm going to get into some detail about what I thought were problems (spoilered for length and content and so people sick of hearing me whining don't have to look at it):

Scene 1. Directed panspermia. Does this create all life on Earth or only human life? If it's the former, how could the Engineers have accounted for the mass extinction events that go on through Earth's history? Did they cause those events? Why bother? If it's the latter, how could we be so closely related to the great apes?

Shaw and Holloway are boring and obnoxious, respectively. The basic premise is exactly the same as AvP.

Prometheus has a crew of 17. That's too many people for a movie like this. Alien had 7 characters and you cared about all of them. Prometheus has 17+ and you care about maybe two of them.

Case in point, crew wakes up, one guy introduces himself to another as "the biologist." He has a name, but we won't remember it. The other guy angrily tells him to sod off. Great character development, guys.

Vickers is really antagonistic to Shaw and Holloway. I'm sure this will be important later, right? Not really.

The team goes in and Holloway takes off his helmet. The air is like earth's in the structure, but we have no clue if there are, oh I don't know, airborne viruses? Holloway is a jackass and so is everyone else for following his lead.

Geologist guy freaks out and starts shouting about big dead bodies. Why? Because it feels dramatic. It's not. It's melodramatic and stupid.

Holloway manages to unleash what look like earthworms. Why would earthworms be on the soles of the boots of a suit designed for space travel? I highly doubt people were running around in those boots outside on earth soil before putting them on the ship.

Back on the ship, we see the Engineer's head. Shaw, like any good scientist, runs a rigorous set of tests and is careful to preserve the specimen. Oh no wait she jams a needle in its neck and runs an electric current through it. Really?

The biologist and the geologist get lost even though they have arm bands with readouts of the map. Uhm.

Vickers and Elba sleep together. I'm sure this will be important later. Oh wait, it's not.

David purposefully infects Holloway for seemingly no reason. Maybe he does it because Holloway is an unrepentant jackass, in which case, fine with me. But there's no other good explanation for it.

Shaw casually declares she can't have kids. But she has her faith! This is not character development, it's character telegraphing.

Oh, don't get me started on the Engineer's DNA being the same as ours. Similar to ours? That I would buy. Identical to ours? Fuck you, writers. Do you see any humans that are 9 feet tall, white as bone, with black eyes and massive strength? No, I didn't think so.

Biologist and geologist get scared of a pile of dead bodies and run back to the room that made them so scared the first time that they ran away and got lost. Mutated earthworm shows up and the biologist, now encountering alien life for the first time, treats it like a bunny rabbit. I think any biologist worth his salt would know not to touch strange lifeforms and observe them from a reasonable distance. But no, let's touch the damn thing and SURPRISE it kills them.

Holloway sees he's sick, says nothing, goes out with the expedition anyway. What a douchebag.

They get back to the structure only to have to leave immediately because Holloway is sick. Who structured this plot?

The white snake thing leaps out of the biologist's mouth. I'm sure this will be important later. Oh wait it's not.

David appears to have expected Shaw to be pregnant with an alien. How could he have foresee Holloway would sleep with her? Why is he interested in a mutant hybrid alien baby? Does this sound like Alien: Resurrection to anyone else?

The CGI in the abortion sequence is awful. The baby looks like a squid. Gone are the elegant creature designs of Giger.

Zombie geologist shows up and kills people. Why? Why not? Does this advance the plot? No. Does it add character development? No. The geologist looks like a reject from The Walking Dead TV series. Who thought this shit up?

Weyland is woken up, has meaningful conversation. I'm sure this will be important later. Oh wait it's not.

Vickers calls him "father" pointedly. Is she a robot? I guess we'll find out later (no we won't).

They wake up the engineer, finally an answer to our questions! Nope, Engineer goes "Hulk Smash" over everyone for no reason except that the writers couldn't think of an answer to anything.

Let's make a big deal of Vickers gearing up to escape just in time. I'm sure she'll play a major role in the last ten minutes. Nope, she's crushed by a spaceship in one of the dumbest scenes I've seen in a film in a long time. A large, but thin, object is crashing toward her. She keeps running right in the path of the ship. Why not make a 90 degree turn and run away from it that way? Shaw manages to ROLL away from it while Vickers can't make it out alive. Who was Vickers? Was she a robot? Turns out it doesn't matter because fuck you that's why.

Baby hybrid becomes big ass hybrid. Shaw lets White Hulk and Lotus Flower duke it out in a scene with awful CGI. The full grown hybrid is uglier and messier than the baby. Where are Giger's designs when you need them?

What appears to be a fully grown Proto-Xenomorph bursts out of the engineer. The design is a cruel mockery of Giger's original. The CGI is again pretty bad. Is this film suggesting that the Xenomorphs, described in the original film by Ash as the perfect killing machines, were born by accident because of the events of this film? Not only that, but they somehow get from this moon to the next moon over? Was there no one on staff asking these questions?

Every monster is shown in full light with no hidden elements. The mystery is gone. Take that, Alien!

That's just off the top of my head but as you can see my list of complaints is long and the more I think about it the more problems I find.

anomynous
06-08-12, 12:41 PM
I fail to see how the CGI was "pretty bad".

Supermallet
06-08-12, 01:08 PM
In the abortion scene, her cut up abdomen looked ridiculous. The CGI engineer did not mesh well with the guy in the suit engineer. That's two examples.

matrixrok9
06-08-12, 01:13 PM
Now that more people have seen it, I'm going to get into some detail about what I thought were problems (spoilered for length and content and so people sick of hearing me whining don't have to look at it):

Scene 1. Directed panspermia. Does this create all life on Earth or only human life? If it's the former, how could the Engineers have accounted for the mass extinction events that go on through Earth's history? Did they cause those events? Why bother? If it's the latter, how could we be so closely related to the great apes?

Shaw and Holloway are boring and obnoxious, respectively. The basic premise is exactly the same as AvP.

Prometheus has a crew of 17. That's too many people for a movie like this. Alien had 7 characters and you cared about all of them. Prometheus has 17+ and you care about maybe two of them.

Case in point, crew wakes up, one guy introduces himself to another as "the biologist." He has a name, but we won't remember it. The other guy angrily tells him to sod off. Great character development, guys.

Vickers is really antagonistic to Shaw and Holloway. I'm sure this will be important later, right? Not really.

The team goes in and Holloway takes off his helmet. The air is like earth's in the structure, but we have no clue if there are, oh I don't know, airborne viruses? Holloway is a jackass and so is everyone else for following his lead.

Geologist guy freaks out and starts shouting about big dead bodies. Why? Because it feels dramatic. It's not. It's melodramatic and stupid.

Holloway manages to unleash what look like earthworms. Why would earthworms be on the soles of the boots of a suit designed for space travel? I highly doubt people were running around in those boots outside on earth soil before putting them on the ship.

Back on the ship, we see the Engineer's head. Shaw, like any good scientist, runs a rigorous set of tests and is careful to preserve the specimen. Oh no wait she jams a needle in its neck and runs an electric current through it. Really?

The biologist and the geologist get lost even though they have arm bands with readouts of the map. Uhm.

Vickers and Elba sleep together. I'm sure this will be important later. Oh wait, it's not.

David purposefully infects Holloway for seemingly no reason. Maybe he does it because Holloway is an unrepentant jackass, in which case, fine with me. But there's no other good explanation for it.

Shaw casually declares she can't have kids. But she has her faith! This is not character development, it's character telegraphing.

Oh, don't get me started on the Engineer's DNA being the same as ours. Similar to ours? That I would buy. Identical to ours? Fuck you, writers. Do you see any humans that are 9 feet tall, white as bone, with black eyes and massive strength? No, I didn't think so.

Biologist and geologist get scared of a pile of dead bodies and run back to the room that made them so scared the first time that they ran away and got lost. Mutated earthworm shows up and the biologist, now encountering alien life for the first time, treats it like a bunny rabbit. I think any biologist worth his salt would know not to touch strange lifeforms and observe them from a reasonable distance. But no, let's touch the damn thing and SURPRISE it kills them.

Holloway sees he's sick, says nothing, goes out with the expedition anyway. What a douchebag.

They get back to the structure only to have to leave immediately because Holloway is sick. Who structured this plot?

The white snake thing leaps out of the biologist's mouth. I'm sure this will be important later. Oh wait it's not.

David appears to have expected Shaw to be pregnant with an alien. How could he have foresee Holloway would sleep with her? Why is he interested in a mutant hybrid alien baby? Does this sound like Alien: Resurrection to anyone else?

The CGI in the abortion sequence is awful. The baby looks like a squid. Gone are the elegant creature designs of Giger.

Zombie geologist shows up and kills people. Why? Why not? Does this advance the plot? No. Does it add character development? No. The geologist looks like a reject from The Walking Dead TV series. Who thought this shit up?

Weyland is woken up, has meaningful conversation. I'm sure this will be important later. Oh wait it's not.

Vickers calls him "father" pointedly. Is she a robot? I guess we'll find out later (no we won't).

They wake up the engineer, finally an answer to our questions! Nope, Engineer goes "Hulk Smash" over everyone for no reason except that the writers couldn't think of an answer to anything.

Let's make a big deal of Vickers gearing up to escape just in time. I'm sure she'll play a major role in the last ten minutes. Nope, she's crushed by a spaceship in one of the dumbest scenes I've seen in a film in a long time. A large, but thin, object is crashing toward her. She keeps running right in the path of the ship. Why not make a 90 degree turn and run away from it that way? Shaw manages to ROLL away from it while Vickers can't make it out alive. Who was Vickers? Was she a robot? Turns out it doesn't matter because fuck you that's why.

Baby hybrid becomes big ass hybrid. Shaw lets White Hulk and Lotus Flower duke it out in a scene with awful CGI. The full grown hybrid is uglier and messier than the baby. Where are Giger's designs when you need them?

What appears to be a fully grown Proto-Xenomorph bursts out of the engineer. The design is a cruel mockery of Giger's original. The CGI is again pretty bad. Is this film suggesting that the Xenomorphs, described in the original film by Ash as the perfect killing machines, were born by accident because of the events of this film? Not only that, but they somehow get from this moon to the next moon over? Was there no one on staff asking these questions?

Every monster is shown in full light with no hidden elements. The mystery is gone. Take that, Alien!

That's just off the top of my head but as you can see my list of complaints is long and the more I think about it the more problems I find.

I actually enjoyed it for most of the reasons you hated it. I like movies that doesn't overly explain.

I think David was developing emotions that's why he poisoned the dude. He even has a smirk before they go back to the Space Jockey's ship. I think that was his first emotional expression throughout the whole movie.

macnorton
06-08-12, 01:18 PM
I agree with matrixrok9, I enjoyed the film for the reasons you didn't as well. As for the CGI, I don't agree. I though it was very well done.

Supermallet
06-08-12, 01:27 PM
You guys enjoyed the movie for the poor scripting and idiot characters?

anomynous
06-08-12, 01:33 PM
Yes, is that a problem?

Why So Blu?
06-08-12, 01:35 PM
Saw it last night at The Dome.

I loved it. The visual fx and cinematography were outstanding. I think the mixed reviews are what they are, because this is not standard horror fare. The first film was routine, but had never been presented in that way before.

Prometheus has so many layers that one has to peel off. I think the majority of the haters wanted the template of Alien over to Prometheus. They're sorely mistaken if they think it's anything like Alien.

macnorton
06-08-12, 01:39 PM
Saw it last night at The Dome.

I loved it. The visual fx and cinematography were outstanding. I think the mixed reviews are what they are, because this is not standard horror fare. The first film was routine, but had never been presented in that way before.

Prometheus has so many layers that one has to peel off. I think the majority of the haters wanted the template of Alien over to Prometheus. They're sorely mistaken if they think it's anything like Alien.

Great summation. The film was never going to live up to the hype for a lot of people. Ultimately, they were let down.

Not to say their opinions aren't valid, I personally did not agree with a lot of them.

Supermallet
06-08-12, 01:44 PM
Yes, is that a problem?

A problem? No. Just mystifying to me.

matrixrok9
06-08-12, 01:45 PM
You guys enjoyed the movie for the poor scripting and idiot characters?

HELL YEAH!

*Raise hands up*

matrixrok9
06-08-12, 01:49 PM
Also CG to me looked fine.

Sondheim
06-08-12, 02:05 PM
I think the majority of the haters wanted the template of Alien over to Prometheus. They're sorely mistaken if they think it's anything like Alien.I had the opposite problem. I went in hoping for a unique and intelligent sci-fi mystery/adventure and ended up getting Aliens-lite. Except it was significantly dumber than the first three Alien films.

I was actually enjoying the film quite a lot for the first 40 or minutes or so, and then:the two idiots return to the room that they ran away from in the first place and try to pet the freaky alien snake thing and the film just became routine after that. Too many stupid character decisions and too many pointless action scenes (seemingly to compensate for the writers' lack of ideas after a great setup.)

I was also pissed by the stuff with the engineer:
I usually dislike plot dumps, but I would have preferred one there vs. the writers' "We don't know what's going on either so we're just going to have him kill everyone instead of giving us any information" that we got.Ambiguity is great - in fact, I was hoping this would be a film that would convey a strong sense of mystery and awe (as one would expect from a film about the origins of life and ancient alien civilizations.) And I understand that a big budget film like this has to make some concessions for mass audiences - but it was pretty clear that the writers simply didn't know what was going on and hoped we would be satisfied with a bunch of random stuff instead (hey, reminds me of Lost.)

There's a difference between being ambiguous/leaving things up to interpretation and simply throwing in a bunch of random shit and hoping that it seems "deep."

Dragon Tattoo
06-08-12, 02:19 PM
A problem? No. Just mystifying to me.

People don't always (In fact, I'd say they almost never...) make the smartest decisions. Just check out any thread in Otter for proof of this.

I've always failed to understand how characters not making the absolute smartest decision in a given situation is an actual valid criticism.

Supermallet
06-08-12, 02:24 PM
If there were one or two bad decisions, fine. If everyone consistently makes the worst decisions, I don't buy it.

boredsilly
06-08-12, 02:32 PM
Just got back, and I enjoyed it. Glad I saw it at a faux-imax screen, because that really does help with the enormity of the ships. I also didn't mind the 3d. I wouldn't have paid to see it in 3d if that wasn't the only screening that would work for my schedule, so I bit the bullet, and I wasn't let down. Usually the 3d doesn't look good to me when a movie is chaotic (the Spidey trailer in 3d looked awful to me), but because Prometheus is a slower paced movie, I was able to take it all in.

I must say that I didn't really care for the Engineers. I think they looked king of silly, and I don't like how this really alien franchise has become very earth-centric with the retcons of this movie. Maybe they would have been fine, if not for the other creatures in this series, the Aliens proper, being such original and iconic beasts. The Engineers were just super-sized versions of Powder. That took all of the tension out of the confrontations had with it, because of how silly it looked.

It makes me less interested in a potential sequel on the Engineers home-planet, if it deals more with that race, and their planet isn't overun by face-huggers.

Also, who's idea was it to make Idris Elba talk in a southern accent? That shit was so wrong, on so many levels.

That stuff aside, it was a pretty looking movie, that I really enjoyed losing myself in for a couple of hours. It definitely has some problems, but none of them bothered me while watching. There are a lot of questions swirling around in my head, especially about the ending, that I'm sure will be discussed into the ground by nerds of this franchise like myself.

I do have one question, though, about the ending.

At first I thought the hero Engineer in this movie was the dead Engineer we saw in Alien. But obviously, they aren't the same, so I'm at a loss as to what that thing was that Shaw gave birth to. At first, I was wondering if we're supposed to think that thing mixed with her DNA, and then mixed with the Engineer, to make the very first Alien, but that doesn't make any sense either. I just don't know what I'm supposed to think that thing was.

devilshalo
06-08-12, 02:35 PM
I'll say that it felt like one of those stories that a person starts a page and people after that add their own. It was a jumbled mess. There was no flow. The only thing I want right now is the same questions Shaw has for the makers, "why?"

boredsilly
06-08-12, 02:36 PM
Also, not to be that guy, but Noomi Rapace has a KILLER body. Geezus. Tight and right.

AnonomusBob15
06-08-12, 02:51 PM
Also, not to be that guy, but Noomi Rapace has a KILLER body. Geezus. Tight and right.


I fucking love this post.

anomynous
06-08-12, 03:22 PM
Just got back, and I enjoyed it. Glad I saw it at a faux-imax screen, because that really does help with the enormity of the ships. I also didn't mind the 3d. I wouldn't have paid to see it in 3d if that wasn't the only screening that would work for my schedule, so I bit the bullet, and I wasn't let down. Usually the 3d doesn't look good to me when a movie is chaotic (the Spidey trailer in 3d looked awful to me), but because Prometheus is a slower paced movie, I was able to take it all in.

I must say that I didn't really care for the Engineers. I think they looked king of silly, and I don't like how this really alien franchise has become very earth-centric with the retcons of this movie. Maybe they would have been fine, if not for the other creatures in this series, the Aliens proper, being such original and iconic beasts. The Engineers were just super-sized versions of Powder. That took all of the tension out of the confrontations had with it, because of how silly it looked.

It makes me less interested in a potential sequel on the Engineers home-planet, if it deals more with that race, and their planet isn't overun by face-huggers.

Also, who's idea was it to make Idris Elba talk in a southern accent? That shit was so wrong, on so many levels.

That stuff aside, it was a pretty looking movie, that I really enjoyed losing myself in for a couple of hours. It definitely has some problems, but none of them bothered me while watching. There are a lot of questions swirling around in my head, especially about the ending, that I'm sure will be discussed into the ground by nerds of this franchise like myself.

I do have one question, though, about the ending.

At first I thought the hero Engineer in this movie was the dead Engineer we saw in Alien. But obviously, they aren't the same, so I'm at a loss as to what that thing was that Shaw gave birth to. At first, I was wondering if we're supposed to think that thing mixed with her DNA, and then mixed with the Engineer, to make the very first Alien, but that doesn't make any sense either. I just don't know what I'm supposed to think that thing was.

The squid she gave birth to turned into the giant facehugger.....which facehugged the Engineer and created proto-Alien

boredsilly
06-08-12, 03:24 PM
The squid she gave birth to turned into the giant facehugger.....which facehugged the Engineer and created proto-Alien

And is that meant to be the very first alien ever? The mothership alien? The by-product of the engineer and Shaw's "baby" mixing?

Why So Blu?
06-08-12, 03:35 PM
Just got back, and I enjoyed it. Glad I saw it at a faux-imax screen, because that really does help with the enormity of the ships. I also didn't mind the 3d. I wouldn't have paid to see it in 3d if that wasn't the only screening that would work for my schedule, so I bit the bullet, and I wasn't let down. Usually the 3d doesn't look good to me when a movie is chaotic (the Spidey trailer in 3d looked awful to me), but because Prometheus is a slower paced movie, I was able to take it all in.

I must say that I didn't really care for the Engineers. I think they looked king of silly, and I don't like how this really alien franchise has become very earth-centric with the retcons of this movie. Maybe they would have been fine, if not for the other creatures in this series, the Aliens proper, being such original and iconic beasts. The Engineers were just super-sized versions of Powder. That took all of the tension out of the confrontations had with it, because of how silly it looked.

It makes me less interested in a potential sequel on the Engineers home-planet, if it deals more with that race, and their planet isn't overun by face-huggers.

Also, who's idea was it to make Idris Elba talk in a southern accent? That shit was so wrong, on so many levels.

That stuff aside, it was a pretty looking movie, that I really enjoyed losing myself in for a couple of hours. It definitely has some problems, but none of them bothered me while watching. There are a lot of questions swirling around in my head, especially about the ending, that I'm sure will be discussed into the ground by nerds of this franchise like myself.

I do have one question, though, about the ending.

At first I thought the hero Engineer in this movie was the dead Engineer we saw in Alien. But obviously, they aren't the same, so I'm at a loss as to what that thing was that Shaw gave birth to. At first, I was wondering if we're supposed to think that thing mixed with her DNA, and then mixed with the Engineer, to make the very first Alien, but that doesn't make any sense either. I just don't know what I'm supposed to think that thing was.



Remember that the Engineers were colonists. Many Engineers and many ships all over the galaxies. This planet was LV 242 and the planet where the Space Jockey is entombed in Alien is LV 429.

Shannon Nutt
06-08-12, 03:40 PM
Tight and right.

They should put that on women's t-shirts...only available in small, of course.

boredsilly
06-08-12, 03:59 PM
Remember that the Engineers were colonists. Many Engineers and many ships all over the galaxies. This planet was LV 242 and the planet where the Space Jockey is entombed in Alien is LV 429.

Of course. I guess I was just being a bit dense there. Thanks for the clarification.

WeylandYutani
06-08-12, 04:27 PM
Now that more people have seen it, I'm going to get into some detail about what I thought were problems (spoilered for length and content and so people sick of hearing me whining don't have to look at it):

Scene 1. Directed panspermia. Does this create all life on Earth or only human life? If it's the former, how could the Engineers have accounted for the mass extinction events that go on through Earth's history? Did they cause those events? Why bother? If it's the latter, how could we be so closely related to the great apes?

Shaw and Holloway are boring and obnoxious, respectively. The basic premise is exactly the same as AvP.

Prometheus has a crew of 17. That's too many people for a movie like this. Alien had 7 characters and you cared about all of them. Prometheus has 17+ and you care about maybe two of them.

Case in point, crew wakes up, one guy introduces himself to another as "the biologist." He has a name, but we won't remember it. The other guy angrily tells him to sod off. Great character development, guys.

Vickers is really antagonistic to Shaw and Holloway. I'm sure this will be important later, right? Not really.

The team goes in and Holloway takes off his helmet. The air is like earth's in the structure, but we have no clue if there are, oh I don't know, airborne viruses? Holloway is a jackass and so is everyone else for following his lead.

Geologist guy freaks out and starts shouting about big dead bodies. Why? Because it feels dramatic. It's not. It's melodramatic and stupid.

Holloway manages to unleash what look like earthworms. Why would earthworms be on the soles of the boots of a suit designed for space travel? I highly doubt people were running around in those boots outside on earth soil before putting them on the ship.

Back on the ship, we see the Engineer's head. Shaw, like any good scientist, runs a rigorous set of tests and is careful to preserve the specimen. Oh no wait she jams a needle in its neck and runs an electric current through it. Really?

The biologist and the geologist get lost even though they have arm bands with readouts of the map. Uhm.

Vickers and Elba sleep together. I'm sure this will be important later. Oh wait, it's not.

David purposefully infects Holloway for seemingly no reason. Maybe he does it because Holloway is an unrepentant jackass, in which case, fine with me. But there's no other good explanation for it.

Shaw casually declares she can't have kids. But she has her faith! This is not character development, it's character telegraphing.

Oh, don't get me started on the Engineer's DNA being the same as ours. Similar to ours? That I would buy. Identical to ours? Fuck you, writers. Do you see any humans that are 9 feet tall, white as bone, with black eyes and massive strength? No, I didn't think so.

Biologist and geologist get scared of a pile of dead bodies and run back to the room that made them so scared the first time that they ran away and got lost. Mutated earthworm shows up and the biologist, now encountering alien life for the first time, treats it like a bunny rabbit. I think any biologist worth his salt would know not to touch strange lifeforms and observe them from a reasonable distance. But no, let's touch the damn thing and SURPRISE it kills them.

Holloway sees he's sick, says nothing, goes out with the expedition anyway. What a douchebag.

They get back to the structure only to have to leave immediately because Holloway is sick. Who structured this plot?

The white snake thing leaps out of the biologist's mouth. I'm sure this will be important later. Oh wait it's not.

David appears to have expected Shaw to be pregnant with an alien. How could he have foresee Holloway would sleep with her? Why is he interested in a mutant hybrid alien baby? Does this sound like Alien: Resurrection to anyone else?

The CGI in the abortion sequence is awful. The baby looks like a squid. Gone are the elegant creature designs of Giger.

Zombie geologist shows up and kills people. Why? Why not? Does this advance the plot? No. Does it add character development? No. The geologist looks like a reject from The Walking Dead TV series. Who thought this shit up?

Weyland is woken up, has meaningful conversation. I'm sure this will be important later. Oh wait it's not.

Vickers calls him "father" pointedly. Is she a robot? I guess we'll find out later (no we won't).

They wake up the engineer, finally an answer to our questions! Nope, Engineer goes "Hulk Smash" over everyone for no reason except that the writers couldn't think of an answer to anything.

Let's make a big deal of Vickers gearing up to escape just in time. I'm sure she'll play a major role in the last ten minutes. Nope, she's crushed by a spaceship in one of the dumbest scenes I've seen in a film in a long time. A large, but thin, object is crashing toward her. She keeps running right in the path of the ship. Why not make a 90 degree turn and run away from it that way? Shaw manages to ROLL away from it while Vickers can't make it out alive. Who was Vickers? Was she a robot? Turns out it doesn't matter because fuck you that's why.

Baby hybrid becomes big ass hybrid. Shaw lets White Hulk and Lotus Flower duke it out in a scene with awful CGI. The full grown hybrid is uglier and messier than the baby. Where are Giger's designs when you need them?

What appears to be a fully grown Proto-Xenomorph bursts out of the engineer. The design is a cruel mockery of Giger's original. The CGI is again pretty bad. Is this film suggesting that the Xenomorphs, described in the original film by Ash as the perfect killing machines, were born by accident because of the events of this film? Not only that, but they somehow get from this moon to the next moon over? Was there no one on staff asking these questions?

Every monster is shown in full light with no hidden elements. The mystery is gone. Take that, Alien!

That's just off the top of my head but as you can see my list of complaints is long and the more I think about it the more problems I find.


I disagree with some of your points and agree with others. I love that the movie left you with more questions than answers, especially pertaining to David's true motives in the whole thing. Did you fault Alien for over 30 years for not explaining what the Derelict was? Why it was parked? How the eggs got in there? How the Jockey got infected? What happened to the rest of the crew? What happened to Brett and Dallas' bodies? Why the xeno didn't kill Ripley on the Narcissus and instead seems to be trying to take a nap? Why it would be necessary to bring a cat on this trip? What the deal was with the bonus situation?

I disagree completely about the CGI. I thought it was fantastic throughout including the proto-xeno "The baby looks like a squid. Gone are the elegant creature designs of Giger." That's a design issue, not a CGI issue.

I agree with you about many of the characters. These had to be some of the stupidest scientists I've seen in a science-fiction film in recent years. And most of the ones that weren't were just poorly developed and useless. That Asian guy who just stood around with a scrunched-up constipated look on his face for two hours. Why? I knew something was very wrong when in the middle of the movie I realized that I felt more invested in some of the crew members of the Betty in Alien Resurrection, like Elgyn and Johnner, than I did for most of the dumbasses in this movie. I can overlook many misgivings I may have with a movie if other aspects are working but in this case that is a flaw impossible to ignore.

WeylandYutani
06-08-12, 04:34 PM
Oh, and just wanted to say that it would've been a hell of a lot better had they just cast Max von Sydow as Weyland instead of caking on the makeup on poor Pearce.

Why So Blu?
06-08-12, 04:40 PM
I'm hoping for a Ridley Scott Unrated or Director's Cut of the film on Blu-ray. They should restore the TED conference where a young Guy Pearce delivers his speech.
They should also restore the scene that was in the trailer that didn't make it in the final version where Noomi clasps here hands in prayer. In the theatrical version it cuts away. That was a whole "questioning faith" type of scene. I wonder if they actually filmed an Theron Elba love scene as it was hinted that they screwed.

boredsilly
06-08-12, 04:45 PM
Oh, and just wanted to say that it would've been a hell of a lot better had they just cast Max von Sydow as Weyland instead of caking on the makeup on poor Pearce.

I agree with this 1000 percent. I was sure he was going to be de-aged or something, to explain putting an actor in old people makeup...but nope. That really stood out to me as a weird choice, especially when we NEVER see a young Pearce in the movie, and he is instead reserved for the online viral stuff. A naturally older actor would have been a much much better choice.

Solid Snake
06-08-12, 04:46 PM
Alright. saw it today after work. I really enjoyed it. Hated the essentially unknown and stereotypical characters that went in.

I for the most part agree w/ everything Supermallet said..but..it's actually well directed but w/ a flawed script. I think he may overlooked some things that he didn't get because he was annoyed but..yes..he's right. Unlike him though...I did enjoy it. And my only issue w/ iffy cgi was the c section. It wasn't on par but it's pretty "average" w/ what can be done w/ the human body concept. Seems like we can never get the insides that right. I'll get back to you guys soon to counterpoint what Supermallet may have missed but yes..he's about 90% at least right...maybe more depending if I look at it again.

I await Prometheus 2 and very much hope it actually dwells into thematic intentions it supposedly had.

Also for those of you who thought this is 5 star worthy? Really? It's flawed as fuck w/ that script. No way it's 5 stars. If it wasn't for Ridley it would've been worse storywise.

WeylandYutani
06-08-12, 05:48 PM
I'm hoping for a Ridley Scott Unrated or Director's Cut of the film on Blu-ray. They should restore the TED conference where a young Guy Pearce delivers his speech.
They should also restore the scene that was in the trailer that didn't make it in the final version where Noomi clasps here hands in prayer. In the theatrical version it cuts away. That was a whole "questioning faith" type of scene. I wonder if they actually filmed an Theron Elba love scene as it was hinted that they screwed.


I hope he restores the scene where Shaw is kind enough to mention to Weyland, Janek, etc. that THERE'S A GIANT FUCKING SQUID THAT SHE JUST GAVE BIRTH TO THAT IS CURRENTLY CHILLING ON THE SHIP JUST TWO CORRIDORS BACK.

lopper
06-08-12, 07:22 PM
Just saw this. Didn't love it. Wish they'd gone full retard and just done a proper Alien prequel. I don't need a sequel to this.

Supermallet
06-08-12, 07:30 PM
I love that the movie left you with more questions than answers, especially pertaining to David's true motives in the whole thing. Did you fault Alien for over 30 years for not explaining what the Derelict was? Why it was parked? How the eggs got in there? How the Jockey got infected? What happened to the rest of the crew? What happened to Brett and Dallas' bodies? Why the xeno didn't kill Ripley on the Narcissus and instead seems to be trying to take a nap? Why it would be necessary to bring a cat on this trip? What the deal was with the bonus situation?

David's iffy motivations are the one example of intended ambiguity that I can accept. The rest of the intentionally ambiguous stuff leaves not just the questions that the filmmakers intended, but questions they didn't intend, questions of logic and reason that shouldn't be part of the equation. This isn't the same thing as Alien. We don't know who the Space Jockeys are in that film, we don't know how the derelict ship got there, we don't know what the Alien did with the bodies, but none of those things make me question the basic motivations of character and plot. The characters in Alien act exactly as I would expect people in that situation to act. Not so with Prometheus.

Ambiguity can be a very good thing. Not thinking through your own script? Not so much.

I disagree completely about the CGI. I thought it was fantastic throughout including the proto-xeno "The baby looks like a squid. Gone are the elegant creature designs of Giger." That's a design issue, not a CGI issue.

I should have made those two separate complaints. The CGI on Shaw's abdomen looks bad. The creature, incidentally, is also poorly designed and not scary.

I agree with you about many of the characters. These had to be some of the stupidest scientists I've seen in a science-fiction film in recent years. And most of the ones that weren't were just poorly developed and useless. That Asian guy who just stood around with a scrunched-up constipated look on his face for two hours. Why? I knew something was very wrong when in the middle of the movie I realized that I felt more invested in some of the crew members of the Betty in Alien Resurrection, like Elgyn and Johnner, than I did for most of the dumbasses in this movie. I can overlook many misgivings I may have with a movie if other aspects are working but in this case that is a flaw impossible to ignore.

This is the stuff I'm talking about. I could get on board with some of the other choices in the film if the characters didn't act like fucking idiots the whole way through. I understand, you're in a completely unique situation, but at the same time these people are meant to be trained scientists and presumably at the top of their fields because you know Weyland could afford to hire the best. The way they act is just ridiculous.

Patman
06-08-12, 07:35 PM
Because, remember, they're there for the MONEY!!!!

Solid Snake
06-08-12, 07:38 PM
David, aside from the production design, is the only thing where I could say it was top notch. Fassbender strikes again. I really liked David. I'd personally would put in Vickers, maybe 4 more crew members, Shaw, David, Janek, and...Weyland (cuz if it had a better script...that could've turned out really well).

Also...who the fuck was in the terrain vehicle when they ran out? Shaw, Holloway, Ford, and Colloway were on the small mobile bikes. I guess David was in there w/ some crew? Had way too many nobodies in there for sure. I seriously thought it was the doomed two but then..they weren't there either. A lot of shit was overlooked. How the hell did Scott not notice that stuff?

Supermallet
06-08-12, 07:39 PM
I liked Janek because I liked Elba. There was nothing inherent in his character that made him interesting.

But I will reiterate how much I loved Fassbender in this film. His performance is, pardon the pun, electric.

d2cheer
06-08-12, 07:45 PM
I really enjoyed this. Saw it in 3D and that probably added to it. The other thing is that I took my son as well; he is 15 and has seen the Alien franchise. However he did not know that this movie was related to Alien and about shit when the connections started showing up. That was a real treat for me to observe and probably helped my overall 4 star rating. But agree a DC on blu better be in order.

Solid Snake
06-08-12, 07:47 PM
Janek as a character who had so little was a character that I understood who he was as a man and I respected that (aside from a few iffy elements via script).

David was a character who as fascinating as he was already...could've been a major big deal in this film. he's still a player but...he could've been of greater importance to the plot.

Dr. DVD
06-08-12, 08:37 PM
After seeing it a second time in IMAX, I think it was actually a bit better than I initially thought. The key is to quit trying to connect it to Alien and just look at it as a stand alone sci-fi in the Alien universe, as it was intended. Granted, there's still some fundamental flaws . For instance:

Why would there be no other Engineers/Space Jockeys on the other ship they used to leave? Just a lucky pick?

Mike86
06-08-12, 08:42 PM
Saw it tonight. I liked some aspects but didn't like others as much. David was a highlight as most people in this thread seem to agree. I thought the movie was setting up Vickers to be a bigger part than she was but there didn't really seem to be any big payoff to her character. I also thought there was a lot of characters that didn't feel entirely necessary. They should have just gone with a bit smaller crew in my opinion and fleshed out the characters a bit better. I didn't mind it overall but I think it could be a bit better with a director's cut eventually.

Why So Blu?
06-08-12, 08:46 PM
After seeing it a second time in IMAX, I think it was actually a bit better than I initially thought. The key is to quit trying to connect it to Alien and just look at it as a stand alone sci-fi in the Alien universe, as it was intended. Granted, there's still some fundamental flaws . For instance:

Why would there be no other Engineers/Space Jockeys on the other ship they used to leave? Just a lucky pick?


Perhaps. They're probably dead or in stasis. David knows the language, so he would have been able to guide Shaw along the way. The question is: what will happen to Shaw and David?

Dr. DVD
06-08-12, 08:46 PM
I also am confused as to what point Vickers served. She wasn't really a villain, but she didn't really drive the action either. She was just there to watch things. Then get crushed. :)

Supermallet
06-08-12, 09:23 PM
After seeing it a second time in IMAX, I think it was actually a bit better than I initially thought. The key is to quit trying to connect it to Alien and just look at it as a stand alone sci-fi in the Alien universe, as it was intended. Granted, there's still some fundamental flaws . For instance:

Why would there be no other Engineers/Space Jockeys on the other ship they used to leave? Just a lucky pick?

If they didn't want us to connect it to Alien they shouldn't have made it about the Space Jockeys and then included that ending scene.

Furthermore even if I disconnected it from Alien completely my complaints would still stand in their entirety.

sauce07
06-08-12, 09:32 PM
The movie was flawed but I still enjoyed my time in the theater. Yes, some of the characters acted stupid but don't they always in movies like this? Even in the original, that dude had an alien attached to his face and the crew didn't immediately throw him out, I don't care if you are my best friend, you're gone. You need characters to do stupid things and die to advance the carnage.

I didn't mind the giant squid, my jaw dropped once I realized it was a huge face-hugger.

On a side note, it cost me $18.50 to see this in faux Imax 3D and it wasn't really worth it. This was my first 3D movie in a year, I don't enjoy it but since this was actually filmed in 3D I decided to give it another chance. The glasses remove me from the movie going experience, I constantly think of the barrier between me and the screen, and add very little. I think i'm done with this trend, it just isn't worth it.

Boba Fett
06-08-12, 09:49 PM
PROMETHEUS is a miserable pile of excrement disguised as cinema. Ridley Scott has solidified his decade long slide into irrelevance and incompetence, crafting a pointless sequel penned from a marginal at best writer. The visuals are thoroughly generic and devoid of any sense of wonder. The film is only saved from being completely worthless by a jaw-dropping performance from Michael Fassbender that has no business existing within 1000 miles of this production.

D+ (1.5/5)

Solid Snake
06-08-12, 10:00 PM
Jesus. That seems like you were hurt by your own expectations.

Boba Fett
06-08-12, 10:10 PM
Jesus. That seems like you were hurt by your own expectations.

Nope, I fully went in expecting mediocre crap. If it met my expectations, I would have been more positive.

Dr. DVD
06-08-12, 10:44 PM
So is it safe to assume that we like Michael Fassbender in these parts?

Supermallet
06-08-12, 10:46 PM
His performance when he's trying to keep Shaw from seeing the ultrasound image was just amazing.

Boba Fett
06-08-12, 10:49 PM
He's an amazingly sympathetic and tragic character in the film; the only one I even cared about.

I'm convinced Rapace is a flash in the pan; she had one great role and has done nothing of note since.

Supermallet
06-08-12, 10:50 PM
Hard to blame her for this. She's doing what she can, but there's no character to latch onto.

Boba Fett
06-08-12, 10:53 PM
There wasn't much character for Theron or Elba, but they went the extra mile to give memorable performances; Elba cracked me up because it was obvious he was in a turd and hammed it up.

Neil M.
06-08-12, 10:54 PM
I liked the movie. I need to let it sink in more but I don't really agree with some of the criticisms at this point.

mapasu
06-08-12, 11:08 PM
Wife & I just came back from watching this. She's confused and so am I. Shit made no sense. I feel like 20th was trying hard to make some $ out of this and had a lot of people's hands all over it. Hope the Aliens Colonial Marines video game coming out is worthy, 'cuse I want me some xenomorph killing.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/08/0330chewbacca.jpg

d2cheer
06-08-12, 11:08 PM
I was just reading through this thread fully after seeing it. I can agree with some of the issues but it does not detract from my enjoyment of the movie; but for me the main gripe was and probably does not need to be a spoiler because you can see part of it in the trailer.

the space jockeys ship is crashing and all they have to do is either run right or left to avoid getting squashed.

The rest of the stuff I took in stride but the above you see in a lot of movies and I am really tired of it.

anomynous
06-08-12, 11:13 PM
http://www.whatis101112.com/


The website for the date put at the end of the credits..........now what it mean, who knows?

discostu1337
06-08-12, 11:21 PM
Just saw it in 3D IMAX and I thought it was excellent. Loved the engineer creating life at the beginning, and the nods to "Alien" at the end. Thought the visuals were beautiful, and the 3D extremely well done. The movie reminded me of the film "Moon" at times with it's haunting images and isolation on the ship. Overall, some of you guys are being way too hard on the film. Is it "Aliens" quality...no, but it's pretty damn good.

Josh-da-man
06-08-12, 11:32 PM
I hope he restores the scene where Shaw is kind enough to mention to Weyland, Janek, etc. that THERE'S A GIANT FUCKING SQUID THAT SHE JUST GAVE BIRTH TO THAT IS CURRENTLY CHILLING ON THE SHIP JUST TWO CORRIDORS BACK.

Reminds me of "Lost."

This is definitely Lindelof's work. :lol:

d2cheer
06-08-12, 11:37 PM
http://www.whatis101112.com/


The website for the date put at the end of the credits..........now what it mean, who knows?

DVD and Blu release date? I know it is not a Tuesday but that would be bad ass if they did it that way.

celmendo
06-09-12, 12:56 AM
Scene 1. Directed panspermia. Does this create all life on Earth or only human life? If it's the former, how could the Engineers have accounted for the mass extinction events that go on through Earth's history? Did they cause those events? Why bother? If it's the latter, how could we be so closely related to the great apes?

Shaw and Holloway are boring and obnoxious, respectively. The basic premise is exactly the same as AvP.

Prometheus has a crew of 17. That's too many people for a movie like this. Alien had 7 characters and you cared about all of them. Prometheus has 17+ and you care about maybe two of them.

Case in point, crew wakes up, one guy introduces himself to another as "the biologist." He has a name, but we won't remember it. The other guy angrily tells him to sod off. Great character development, guys.

Vickers is really antagonistic to Shaw and Holloway. I'm sure this will be important later, right? Not really.

The team goes in and Holloway takes off his helmet. The air is like earth's in the structure, but we have no clue if there are, oh I don't know, airborne viruses? Holloway is a jackass and so is everyone else for following his lead.

Geologist guy freaks out and starts shouting about big dead bodies. Why? Because it feels dramatic. It's not. It's melodramatic and stupid.

Holloway manages to unleash what look like earthworms. Why would earthworms be on the soles of the boots of a suit designed for space travel? I highly doubt people were running around in those boots outside on earth soil before putting them on the ship.

Back on the ship, we see the Engineer's head. Shaw, like any good scientist, runs a rigorous set of tests and is careful to preserve the specimen. Oh no wait she jams a needle in its neck and runs an electric current through it. Really?

The biologist and the geologist get lost even though they have arm bands with readouts of the map. Uhm.

Vickers and Elba sleep together. I'm sure this will be important later. Oh wait, it's not.

David purposefully infects Holloway for seemingly no reason. Maybe he does it because Holloway is an unrepentant jackass, in which case, fine with me. But there's no other good explanation for it.

Shaw casually declares she can't have kids. But she has her faith! This is not character development, it's character telegraphing.

Oh, don't get me started on the Engineer's DNA being the same as ours. Similar to ours? That I would buy. Identical to ours? Fuck you, writers. Do you see any humans that are 9 feet tall, white as bone, with black eyes and massive strength? No, I didn't think so.

Biologist and geologist get scared of a pile of dead bodies and run back to the room that made them so scared the first time that they ran away and got lost. Mutated earthworm shows up and the biologist, now encountering alien life for the first time, treats it like a bunny rabbit. I think any biologist worth his salt would know not to touch strange lifeforms and observe them from a reasonable distance. But no, let's touch the damn thing and SURPRISE it kills them.

Holloway sees he's sick, says nothing, goes out with the expedition anyway. What a douchebag.

They get back to the structure only to have to leave immediately because Holloway is sick. Who structured this plot?

The white snake thing leaps out of the biologist's mouth. I'm sure this will be important later. Oh wait it's not.

David appears to have expected Shaw to be pregnant with an alien. How could he have foresee Holloway would sleep with her? Why is he interested in a mutant hybrid alien baby? Does this sound like Alien: Resurrection to anyone else?

The CGI in the abortion sequence is awful. The baby looks like a squid. Gone are the elegant creature designs of Giger.

Zombie geologist shows up and kills people. Why? Why not? Does this advance the plot? No. Does it add character development? No. The geologist looks like a reject from The Walking Dead TV series. Who thought this shit up?

Weyland is woken up, has meaningful conversation. I'm sure this will be important later. Oh wait it's not.

Vickers calls him "father" pointedly. Is she a robot? I guess we'll find out later (no we won't).

They wake up the engineer, finally an answer to our questions! Nope, Engineer goes "Hulk Smash" over everyone for no reason except that the writers couldn't think of an answer to anything.

Let's make a big deal of Vickers gearing up to escape just in time. I'm sure she'll play a major role in the last ten minutes. Nope, she's crushed by a spaceship in one of the dumbest scenes I've seen in a film in a long time. A large, but thin, object is crashing toward her. She keeps running right in the path of the ship. Why not make a 90 degree turn and run away from it that way? Shaw manages to ROLL away from it while Vickers can't make it out alive. Who was Vickers? Was she a robot? Turns out it doesn't matter because fuck you that's why.

Baby hybrid becomes big ass hybrid. Shaw lets White Hulk and Lotus Flower duke it out in a scene with awful CGI. The full grown hybrid is uglier and messier than the baby. Where are Giger's designs when you need them?

What appears to be a fully grown Proto-Xenomorph bursts out of the engineer. The design is a cruel mockery of Giger's original. The CGI is again pretty bad. Is this film suggesting that the Xenomorphs, described in the original film by Ash as the perfect killing machines, were born by accident because of the events of this film? Not only that, but they somehow get from this moon to the next moon over? Was there no one on staff asking these questions?

Every monster is shown in full light with no hidden elements. The mystery is gone. Take that, Alien!


Really liked it. I agree with Supermallet's list of problems and maybe it was Fassbinder's performance that made it for me but I wasn't disappointed.
The character development or lack thereof was the biggest problem. Theron was eye candy but useless. The lead scientist, geologist and dumbass approaches alien snake felt right out of AVP along with dying old dude. Either a lot was cut or it was just a sloppy script and I just don't get how that happens at that level. Actually it kind of felt like a version of AVP got reworked into this script.
The opening credit sequence was beautiful. Noomi did a great job with the crap character she was given.
Did anyone else see her abdomen sliced open in awful cgi and then run, jump and climb around in ways a fully healthy person might have trouble with? There are muscles there you've just cut through idiot writers. Sadly that's not even the worse thing in the scrip. I'm sure they wanted to make her the new Ripley and I could see that happening with a good script but not even close here.
I guess it's just gonna be one of those movies that is so bad in so many ways but that I really like.

foofighters7
06-09-12, 01:16 AM
PROMETHEUS is a miserable pile of excrement disguised as cinema. Ridley Scott has solidified his decade long slide into irrelevance and incompetence, crafting a pointless sequel penned from a marginal at best writer. The visuals are thoroughly generic and devoid of any sense of wonder. The film is only saved from being completely worthless by a jaw-dropping performance from Michael Fassbender that has no business existing within 1000 miles of this production.

D+ (1.5/5)

No, you just wanted to hate it from the beginning, it would seem.

First off, it wasn't a sequel and everything else you say is over-the-top Armond White style shock criticism.

Boba Fett
06-09-12, 01:41 AM
No, you just wanted to hate it from the beginning, it would seem.

First off, it wasn't a sequel and everything else you say is over-the-top Armond White style shock criticism.

Excuse my mistaken use of sequel instead of prequel, and if I wanted to hate it from the beginning I wouldn't have been at the first showing today. I have much better things to spend my money on than a movie I don't have hopes of enjoying.

And if I was Armond White, I'd have something like this (from White's negative review) instead of praising Fassbender:

This time both David Lean’s Lawrence of Arabia and Steven Spielberg’s A.I.: Artificial Intelligence are dishonored through the characterization of an ominous automaton, David (played by Michael Fassbender who quickly has come to emblematize crap cinema). David models his hair and speaking voice after Peter O’Toole’s classic enigmatic Lawrence and David’s lack of “soul” refers to the conundrum of Spielberg and Kubrick’s neo-Pinocchio conception–scoffed at here as “not a real boy.”

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 01:43 AM
Okay, after watching the film a SECOND time and having being fresh in my memory I have come to the conclusion that the people saying that Theron should have run to the left or right in order to avoid being crushed by the ship didn't pay enough attention to the plot device. I'll explain. Did you guys not notice the big pieces of burning starship raining down on them? Seriously, look at it again and see that it was a 50-50 shot of either being crushed to death by the ship or having volkswagon size debris come down on you. It was raining fire, so your argument about running left and right to survive is invalid.

Boba Fett
06-09-12, 01:46 AM
Okay, after watching the film a SECOND time and having being fresh in my memory I have come to the conclusion that the people saying that Theron should have run to the left or right in order to avoid being crushed by the ship didn't pay enough attention to the plot device. I'll explain. Did you guys not notice the big pieces of burning starship raining down on them? Seriously, look at it again and see that it was a 50-50 shot of either being crushed to death by the ship or having volkswagon size debris come down on you. It was raining fire, so your argument about running left and right to survive is invalid.
I don't get why people are nitpicking something that finnicky instead of

The big plot hole the movie creates with "Alien" regarding the Space Jockey's fate. I know some are saying LV-426 is a different planet, but that's even worse, considering they set the seeds for the Xenomorphs we know in this one and the ship crashed exactly as found in "Alien." Too much coincidence for the exact same crash and situation to happen on a nearby planet.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 01:52 AM
I don't get why people are nitpicking something that finnicky instead of

The big plot hole the movie creates with "Alien" regarding the Space Jockey's fate. I know some are saying LV-426 is a different planet, but that's even worse, considering they set the seeds for the Xenomorphs we know in this one and the ship crashed exactly as found in "Alien." Too much coincidence for the exact same crash and situation to happen on a nearby planet.


Nope, that is a different planet (or moon) and what I envision is that Prometheus II will explain what will happen to Shaw or set the seeds of what happened on LV 426 and bridge it directly to Alien. There's actually more story that needs to be told for it to "make sense" in the end.

Boba Fett
06-09-12, 01:58 AM
Nope, that is a different planet (or moon) and what I envision is that Prometheus II will explain what will happen to Shaw or set the seeds of what happened on LV 426 and bridge it directly to Alien. There's actually more story that needs to be told for it to "make sense" in the end.

That's what I figured, but it's utterly stupid that they had the crashed ship look exactly like it did in "Alien"

Supermallet
06-09-12, 01:59 AM
Okay, after watching the film a SECOND time and having being fresh in my memory I have come to the conclusion that the people saying that Theron should have run to the left or right in order to avoid being crushed by the ship didn't pay enough attention to the plot device. I'll explain. Did you guys not notice the big pieces of burning starship raining down on them? Seriously, look at it again and see that it was a 50-50 shot of either being crushed to death by the ship or having volkswagon size debris come down on you. It was raining fire, so your argument about running left and right to survive is invalid.

So...take your chances getting hit by debris or almost certainly getting hit by the ship? Sorry, the argument is not invalid.

Boba Fett
06-09-12, 02:03 AM
I'm willing to bet that before they decided to entertain the idea of a sequel to this the planet was LV-426 and the final scene in the movie was a chest burster from the Space Jockey; the giant squid and Engineer scene felt rushed at tacked on.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 02:03 AM
That's what I figured, but it's utterly stupid that they had the crashed ship look exactly like it did in "Alien"

I looked for that the second time I saw it and don't think it crashed the same exact way. I'm thinking Shaw's ship will be the one that ends up crashing on LV 426 (or it could be another random ship, because there are many of them out there) in the Promethus sequel. I'm also thinking Shaw will be the actual Space Jockey we see in Alien. After all, we now know that it's a pilot suit, but we don't get to see what's underneath it in Alien meaning that Shaw will probably get impregnated again (if they go with this scenario). Shaw would also have had to wear that thing in order to navigate. David's head and body probably melted.

devilshalo
06-09-12, 02:03 AM
There really needed to be more between Theron and Fassbender. I understand the her hatred of Weyland and maybe jealousy of David, but why did he address her as "mother"? Was that just to make us think she is not human only to have a quick scene with her and Elba to debunk that? There is more there, but with so many character arcs that are introduced and then underdeveloped, it made no sense overall to cram it into so little time.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 02:07 AM
So...take your chances getting hit by debris or almost certainly getting hit by the ship? Sorry, the argument is not invalid.



No, there's no "almost" getting hit. It's either GETTING HIT or having the ship fall on you. Hey, that's what they went for, so go figure. It worked in context, imo.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 02:12 AM
Does he address her as mother? He addresses her as "ma'am," but with his accent it comes out as "mum."

Supermallet
06-09-12, 02:14 AM
No, there's no "almost" getting hit. It's either GETTING HIT or having the ship fall on you. Hey, that's what they went for, so go figure. It worked in context, imo.

I've seen the scene several times (the whole booth shakes when it plays in the IMAX, so I'm drawn to the screen), and the debris is sporadic enough that running at a perpendicular to the ship was not an impossibility.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 02:14 AM
Does he address her as mother? He addresses her as "ma'am," but with his accent it comes out as "mum."

Correct.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 02:17 AM
I've seen the scene several times (the whole booth shakes when it plays in the IMAX, so I'm drawn to the screen), and the debris is sporadic enough that running at a perpendicular to the ship was not an impossibility.


It's not as sporadic as you think. I think the women were no more than 10-12 feet apart from one another and had hell raining down on them.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 02:27 AM
I'll watch it again this show and watch for the debris specifically.

WeylandYutani
06-09-12, 02:39 AM
D+ (1.5/5)

If Prometheus is a D+ then what the heck is
Alien Resurrection, a G-?

Boba Fett
06-09-12, 02:42 AM
I actually would give Resurrection a B- (maybe a C+ after re-watching it again). It's a stupid over-the-top action movie; it doesn't try to be smart and kept me entertained.

WeylandYutani
06-09-12, 02:56 AM
The big plot hole the movie creates with "Alien" regarding the Space Jockey's fate. I know some are saying LV-426 is a different planet, but that's even worse, considering they set the seeds for the Xenomorphs we know in this one and the ship crashed exactly as found in "Alien." Too much coincidence for the exact same crash and situation to happen on a nearby planet.

The ship in Alien is parked, not crashed. And the surrounding geology looks little like the area in which the ship in Prometheus crashes.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 02:59 AM
If Prometheus is a D+ then what the heck is
Alien Resurrection, a G-?

I think Resurrection is a more entertaining movie than Prometheus. Jeunet never got the atmosphere right for real scares, but he allows an interesting set of characters to interact with the Xenomorphs. And I actually liked the harder-edged Ripley shown in the film. The hybrid baby was a bad idea, and remains an equally bad idea in Prometheus.

Boba Fett
06-09-12, 03:05 AM
I think Resurrection is a more entertaining movie than Prometheus. Jeunet never got the atmosphere right for real scares, but he allows an interesting set of characters to interact with the Xenomorphs. And I actually liked the harder-edged Ripley shown in the film. The hybrid baby was a bad idea, and remains an equally bad idea in Prometheus.

The acid-spitting was also incredibly stupid as was Winona Ryder, but other than that, it's a noble falter, rather than an outright failure. People should have realized the tone Jeunet was going for when he had Chow Yun-Fat in mind for one character.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 03:11 AM
I'll say that Resurrection took far more chances with the series than Prometheus does.

Boba Fett
06-09-12, 03:17 AM
Anyone who has the means to, I would highly recommend seeking out the old LucasArts game THE DIG. Covers similar thematic territory, is based on a story by Spielberg and has a great voice cast.

Highly underrated graphic adventure from the 90s.

If you can't play it, someone captured a full playthrough in three hours:
EGzX_7ZN8_U

StephenX
06-09-12, 09:08 AM
PROMETHEUS is a miserable pile of excrement disguised as cinema. Ridley Scott has solidified his decade long slide into irrelevance and incompetence, crafting a pointless sequel penned from a marginal at best writer. The visuals are thoroughly generic and devoid of any sense of wonder. The film is only saved from being completely worthless by a jaw-dropping performance from Michael Fassbender that has no business existing within 1000 miles of this production.

D+ (1.5/5)

All valid criticisms, until you got to the stuff about the visuals. The visuals were unreal and I never once thought we werent on a different planet. Fassbender was incredible.

I really enjoyed the movie. I also wasn't expecting 2001, so that could be why I enjoyed it.

Dr. DVD
06-09-12, 09:59 AM
Notice the name of the computer program in Alien is "mother" as well...

foofighters7
06-09-12, 11:04 AM
although Supermallet's breakdown is overall correct, you can dissect basically any film and find plenty of problematic scenes. I'm certainly not okaying this but simply stating it.

Although I seen most of the same things Super did while watching it, I ultimately liked it and think it was well done in most ways, IF, and this is dependent on the if, they make a sequel and explain some of the massive plot holes.
I certainly don't want or need them to explain everything to me. They don't need to tie up every loose thread, but It needs to seamlessly connect the end of Prometheus to Alien. Since they didn't do it in this one, I hope they do make a sequel.

Basically, I just need to understand who the 'Space Jockey' was in 'Alien' and how he became infected. Was he on this planet where 'Prometheus' takes place? Did he leave in a hurry trying to get away and became infected or was his ship just another ship out there holding the black goo pods?

Is the ship that was found in the first 'Alien' the ship that Shaw and David are leaving on at the end of 'Prometheus'? Did it have an Engineer aboard which was awoken? Was this just another Engineer ship out there? Just too many questions. I want answers!

Decker
06-09-12, 11:18 AM
I saw it in IMAX 3D and liked the visuals a lot. As for the film, I'm somewhat disappointed. For a cerebral movie, they have a lot of smart characters do a lot of very stupid things, and more importantly, leave a lot of very explainable things unexplained -- not Big-Picture, 2001-like things, but important plot points! None moreso than David's motivation in infecting Halloway. And I agree that not actually revealing and explaining the fate of the Space Jocky was a big mistake, one that could have been easily fixed in the script with a re-write.

In a bigger sense, the only purpose for a prequel, it's very raison d'ętre is to explain things seen previously -- to fill in the gaps and complete the bigger picture. Even an abject failure like The Phantom Menace did that to some extent. I feel like this film didn't deliver even on that level.

anomynous
06-09-12, 12:14 PM
Alien Resurrection better than Prometheus :lol:

foofighters7
06-09-12, 12:15 PM
I'm not at all confused as to why David did what he did. Not to say I will be right if they make a sequel.

I feel David was jealous that humans could create and decided to destroy. Yes, there is more to it than that but that's the long and short of it.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 12:20 PM
although Supermallet's breakdown is overall correct, you can dissect basically any film and find plenty of problematic scenes. I'm certainly not okaying this but simply stating it.

Although I seen most of the same things Super did while watching it, I ultimately liked it and think it was well done in most ways, IF, and this is dependent on the if, they make a sequel and explain some of the massive plot holes.
I certainly don't want or need them to explain everything to me. They don't need to tie up every loose thread, but It needs to seamlessly connect the end of Prometheus to Alien. Since they didn't do it in this one, I hope they do make a sequel.

Basically, I just need to understand who the 'Space Jockey' was in 'Alien' and how he became infected. Was he on this planet where 'Prometheus' takes place? Did he leave in a hurry trying to get away and became infected or was his ship just another ship out there holding the black goo pods?

Is the ship that was found in the first 'Alien' the ship that Shaw and David are leaving on at the end of 'Prometheus'? Did it have an Engineer aboard which was awoken? Was this just another Engineer ship out there? Just too many questions. I want answers!

Yes to the first paragraph.

Maybe or maybe not to the second praragraph. If it did have engineers on that ship, I'm sure they were in stasis. Don't think Shaw and David would wake them up this time out.

Mike86
06-09-12, 12:32 PM
Seriously I can see not liking Prometheus but trying to argue Alien Resurrection is a better film? rotfl Give me a break..

maxfisher
06-09-12, 12:37 PM
I really enjoyed the movie. Not as great as Alien or Aliens, but far better than any of the others. I really don't get a lot of the complaints here. Seems like the movie left quite a bit open and a lot of people are mentally writing in the stupidest possible explanations so they have something to dislike. Started to respond to Supermallet's laundry list below, but couldn't get through the whole thing without losing interest.

Scene 1. Directed panspermia. Does this create all life on Earth or only human life? If it's the former, how could the Engineers have accounted for the mass extinction events that go on through Earth's history? Did they cause those events? Why bother? If it's the latter, how could we be so closely related to the great apes?

Did the film place that scene on earth? I missed it if it did.

Prometheus has a crew of 17. That's too many people for a movie like this. Alien had 7 characters and you cared about all of them. Prometheus has 17+ and you care about maybe two of them.

For all intents and purposes, there were only 8 we spent real time with. Seems kind of silly to nitpick that there'd be all of 17/18 people on a ship of that size on a mission of that nature.

Vickers is really antagonistic to Shaw and Holloway. I'm sure this will be important later, right? Not really.

Why does this need to be important?

The team goes in and Holloway takes off his helmet. The air is like earth's in the structure, but we have no clue if there are, oh I don't know, airborne viruses? Holloway is a jackass and so is everyone else for following his lead.

I wrote it off to sheer wonderment of being on a planet clearly also occupied with intelligent beings. I can easily see that impairing judgment.

Geologist guy freaks out and starts shouting about big dead bodies. Why? Because it feels dramatic. It's not. It's melodramatic and stupid.

Or just because it'd kind of suck to be stuck in a hole on a strange planet surrounded by bodies.

Holloway manages to unleash what look like earthworms. Why would earthworms be on the soles of the boots of a suit designed for space travel? I highly doubt people were running around in those boots outside on earth soil before putting them on the ship.

Again, I totally missed something here if that's what happened. I thought there was already soil in that area that the worms were in. Wasn't under the impression at all that the team introduced them.

Back on the ship, we see the Engineer's head. Shaw, like any good scientist, runs a rigorous set of tests and is careful to preserve the specimen. Oh no wait she jams a needle in its neck and runs an electric current through it. Really?

Well, it worked. I mean, dead boy opens his eyes and looks around. So maybe there's some technology there that the characters understand, but you don't?

The biologist and the geologist get lost even though they have arm bands with readouts of the map. Uhm.

I thought interference with the storm was keeping them from getting the maps.

Vickers and Elba sleep together. I'm sure this will be important later. Oh wait, it's not.

Why does this need to be important?

David purposefully infects Holloway for seemingly no reason. Maybe he does it because Holloway is an unrepentant jackass, in which case, fine with me. But there's no other good explanation for it.

There are many reasons he would have done this. I was glad the movie left it open.

Oh, don't get me started on the Engineer's DNA being the same as ours. Similar to ours? That I would buy. Identical to ours? Fuck you, writers. Do you see any humans that are 9 feet tall, white as bone, with black eyes and massive strength? No, I didn't think so.

Have you ever seen Shaquille O'Neal and Warwick Davis? No way those guys have the same DNA.

Biologist and geologist get scared of a pile of dead bodies and run back to the room that made them so scared the first time that they ran away and got lost. Mutated earthworm shows up and the biologist, now encountering alien life for the first time, treats it like a bunny rabbit. I think any biologist worth his salt would know not to touch strange lifeforms and observe them from a reasonable distance. But no, let's touch the damn thing and SURPRISE it kills them.

Again, guys thought they were on some kind of mining mission or something and they wake up to find that not only are they investigating the possibility of other life in the universe, but that it's intelligent and may have 'created' us. I've no problem with that throwing off people's judgment.

Holloway sees he's sick, says nothing, goes out with the expedition anyway. What a douchebag.

I can see someone going into a bit of shock and not knowing what to do after a little tentacle pokes out of their eye.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 12:37 PM
Yeah, the Alien Resurrection/Prometheus comparison is a bit off base due to Prometheus ACTUALLY being entertaining, too.

Solid Snake
06-09-12, 12:38 PM
Yeah, AR isn't better than Prometheus. It's got style out it's ass for sure..but it ain't better. And I only like AR cuz of the style.

foofighters7
06-09-12, 12:42 PM
Yes to the first paragraph.

Maybe or maybe not to the second praragraph. If it did have engineers on that ship, I'm sure they were in stasis. Don't think Shaw and David would wake them up this time out.

True, but perhaps there is other reasons why they were awaken or perhaps it was part of the ships programming. Wake up the sleeping giants when the ship is airborne. I don't know, but something has to be explained as to why and how they find an Engineer in 'Alien' with something that burst from inside his chest.
Was he just another engineer who had an outbreak occur aboard his ship? Was he present when the others on the planet in 'Prometheus' were killed and he happened to get away but was ultimately doomed because he was infected already?

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 12:52 PM
Yeah, AR isn't better than Prometheus. It's got style out it's ass for sure..but it ain't better. And I only like AR cuz of the style.

Exactly. Me too.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 12:55 PM
True, but perhaps there is other reasons why they were awaken or perhaps it was part of the ships programming. Wake up the sleeping giants when the ship is airborne. I don't know, but something has to be explained as to why and how they find an Engineer in 'Alien' with something that burst from inside his chest.
Was he just another engineer who had an outbreak occur aboard his ship? Was he present when the others on the planet in 'Prometheus' were killed and he happened to get away but was ultimately doomed because he was infected already?


I already posted my thoughts on the potential sequel. I said that maybe the crashed ship on LV 426 is that of Shaw's ship. What if Shaw is the person inside the "Space Jockey" suit in Alien? It would kind of make sense, because then those aliens on LV 426 would have evolved to what they normally look like. They carry the human DNA strands, too.

That, or it could be another random ship that crashed there. The engineers are all over the place.

Solid Snake
06-09-12, 01:05 PM
I already posted my thoughts on the potential sequel. I said that maybe the crashed ship on LV 426 is that of Shaw's ship. What if Shaw is the person inside the "Space Jockey" suit in Alien? It would kind of make sense, because then those aliens on LV 426 would have evolved to what they normally look like. They carry the human DNA strands, too.

That, or it could be another random ship that crashed there. The engineers are all over the place.

Shaw isn't tall though...the Spacejockey was tall

Supermallet
06-09-12, 01:40 PM
Alien: Resurrection IS better than Prometheus. For one thing, it has actual Xenomorphs. For another, while the hybrid baby isn't the greatest thing in the world, it's still better designed than the squid baby in Prometheus and with the human eyes can be genuinely creepy. Also it wasn't trying to be 2001.

The only movies in the series I would say are worse than Prometheus are AvP and AvP:R. But that's only because of Fassbender. Take him out and this would be no better than the AvP movies.

Solid Snake
06-09-12, 01:47 PM
Who said it actually needed Xenomorphs though?

Supermallet
06-09-12, 01:52 PM
It wouldn't have needed Xenomorphs if the villains it did provide were threatening or interesting. The villains in Prometheus are not.

And the movie DOES have a fake Xenomorph at the end. It's like Ridley wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

I will watch Alien: Resurrection again in the future and I will enjoy it. I will watch the inevitable DC of Prometheus once out of morbid curiosity then will wipe it from my memory. Fuck Scott and fuck Lindelof. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Oh, and WhySoBlu, I did watch the scene towards the end. The debris is sporadic enough that running to the left or the right is a viable option. Not only that, but debris falls in the path they are running, so running left or right actually reduces the chances of being hit by 50% (because you'd only have to worry about the debris, not the ship).

foofighters7
06-09-12, 01:52 PM
Alien: Resurrection IS better than Prometheus. For one thing, it has actual Xenomorphs. For another, while the hybrid baby isn't the greatest thing in the world, it's still better designed than the squid baby in Prometheus and with the human eyes can be genuinely creepy. Also it wasn't trying to be 2001.

The only movies in the series I would say are worse than Prometheus are AvP and AvP:R. But that's only because of Fassbender. Take him out and this would be no better than the AvP movies.

I certainly don't see 'Prometheus' trying to be 2001. Seeing that this wasn't a true prequel to 'Alien' I don't see why Xenomorphs have to be there for it to be good.

You made some valid points in your breakdown, along with a few points that I didn't understand the anger in but saying that this wasn't as good as AR is just crazy talk.

The Squid baby was absolutely fine because it's not meant to be what you're used to seeing. It was something else entirely. My wife thought the thing was creepy enough. I don't see why it Needs to be creepy anyway.

I think your problem is that you wanted a true Alien Prequel and you are not disappointed that you didn't get to see it.
Again, many of your points were basically right but the original 'Alien' and 'Aliens' had plenty of problematic scenes as well.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 01:57 PM
You can't justify this movie by saying it's not a prequel to Alien. First off, it clearly is. It deals with humanity's first encounter with the Space Jockeys and features a giant mutant facehugger and proto-Xenomorph. Additionally, even if it isn't a prequel to Alien, it's still horribly written and has an unbelievable amount of problems. Are any of the Alien movies perfect? No. But the flaws in the first two are so minute that they can't hinder the audience's ability to enjoy the film. The third is indeed flawed, but still very interesting (perhaps because Fincher is a better director than Scott). The fourth is VERY flawed but still manages to come out better than Prometheus. Like I said, if it weren't for Fassbender, this movie would be on the level of AvP.

foofighters7
06-09-12, 02:04 PM
You can't justify this movie by saying it's not a prequel to Alien. First off, it clearly is. It deals with humanity's first encounter with the Space Jockeys and features a giant mutant facehugger and proto-Xenomorph. Additionally, even if it isn't a prequel to Alien, it's still horribly written and has an unbelievable amount of problems. Are any of the Alien movies perfect? No. But the flaws in the first two are so minute that they can't hinder the audience's ability to enjoy the film. The third is indeed flawed, but still very interesting (perhaps because Fincher is a better director than Scott). The fourth is VERY flawed but still manages to come out better than Prometheus. Like I said, if it weren't for Fassbender, this movie would be on the level of AvP.

Yes, it is a prequel of 'Alien' but not a direct prequel. You seem to have wanted a direct prequel. Something that links directly with 'Alien'. I completely understand that but it's dealing with an expanded history. No matter, your argument of it being flawed is true. Your argument that it's not as good as AR is impossibly off base.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 02:07 PM
If this didn't have Scott's name attached and didn't have Fassbender, this would be getting the same reception as AR or AvP right now. I guarantee it.

Solid Snake
06-09-12, 02:15 PM
You can't justify this movie by saying it's not a prequel to Alien. First off, it clearly is. It deals with humanity's first encounter with the Space Jockeys and features a giant mutant facehugger and proto-Xenomorph. Additionally, even if it isn't a prequel to Alien, it's still horribly written and has an unbelievable amount of problems. Are any of the Alien movies perfect? No. But the flaws in the first two are so minute that they can't hinder the audience's ability to enjoy the film. The third is indeed flawed, but still very interesting (perhaps because Fincher is a better director than Scott). The fourth is VERY flawed but still manages to come out better than Prometheus. Like I said, if it weren't for Fassbender, this movie would be on the level of AvP.

Why are you so offended about...a movie? It's not a true prequel to Alien. What happened here? Bears NO connection to Alien in terms of story. The ONLY thing that connects it, and we still don't know if it even does, is if that ship w/ Shaw and David in it is the same ship in Alien. That's it. That's the ONLY thing that could be a direct correlation to the story. And..we don't even know if it is or isn't. All this? Self contained of a situation on this place.

It's seeds are from before Alien, yes. But...it doesn't do anything to Alien. It's not connected. Same universe, touches some of the same things we saw in Alien..but..it's not direct line to Alien.

Is this movie perfect? No. I found it actually pretty damn entertaining. It'd give a solid B at the most and that's cuz of the production design, Fassbender, and the direction given. I actually want to see what the script was like BEFORE DL got into it. Whatever the fuck he added messed this up. He dumbed it down for sure and Scott just rolled w/ it for some goddamn reason.

Also this film had better production design, acting, and direction than AvP could ever wish for. Fassbender alone is better than AvP in a generality.

If this didn't have Scott's name attached and didn't have Fassbender, this would be getting the same reception as AR or AvP right now. I guarantee it.

or Scott's direction. It's not his name. His name means shit to us. We've bitched and gone off on him when he's failed and we didn't give a fuck about his name. His direction is what matters to us. If he fails we'll got nuts on him just like anyone else.

Neil M.
06-09-12, 02:16 PM
I don't understand why people are trying to connect the events of this film with Alien. It's clear that Ridley Scott wanted to create an entirely independent story set in the same universe. In fact, the end shot almost seems like it was added at the studios behest just so they could market it as an Alien film. Also, if the AvP films are considered to be part of the Alien series, then Prometheus is not an origin story of the Xenomorph as those films took place decades before Prometheus.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 02:19 PM
I'm offended because this movie should have been excellent. Instead, it's not even good. Alien and Blade Runner are two of my favorite films. Scott's return to sci-fi should have been triumphant. He should have made people think while scaring the bejeezus out of them and making them stare in awe at worlds never before seen. Instead we got a movie that is to Alien what Phantom Menace is to Star Wars.

People say it has no connection to Alien. That's bullshit. Pure, outright bullshit. It was intended to be a prequel, and when they changed the premise they just substituted some generic monsters for the Xenomorph. It's a fucking search and replace job in Final Draft.

So yes, I'm mad. I'm mad because this should have been more. Because it could have been more. Because this confirms that Scott can't tell a good idea from a bad one. Because people still pay Lindelof to write when it's clear he sucks at it. Because Fassbender proves how good the rest of the movie could have been.

Patman
06-09-12, 02:26 PM
A friend on FB posted a link to some reaching discussion on what it was all about (Prometheus, that is):

http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html

Solid Snake
06-09-12, 02:31 PM
I'm offended because this movie should have been excellent. Instead, it's not even good. Alien and Blade Runner are two of my favorite films. Scott's return to sci-fi should have been triumphant. He should have made people think while scaring the bejeezus out of them and making them stare in awe at worlds never before seen. Instead we got a movie that is to Alien what Phantom Menace is to Star Wars.

People say it has no connection to Alien. That's bullshit. Pure, outright bullshit. It was intended to be a prequel, and when they changed the premise they just substituted some generic monsters for the Xenomorph. It's a fucking search and replace job in Final Draft.

So yes, I'm mad. I'm mad because this should have been more. Because it could have been more. Because this confirms that Scott can't tell a good idea from a bad one. Because people still pay Lindelof to write when it's clear he sucks at it. Because Fassbender proves how good the rest of the movie could have been.

well now I see it why. Jesus. Just fucking outright say what you feel, man. Why do you beat around the bush?

You've got something at stake w/ this. I don't. Why would I have anything at stake at all w/ a...movie?

And think about it. Storywise? This new story is set in no way to fuck about w/ Alien...so far. Same universe they play in..but it isn't a true prequel to it. A true prequel is something like the SW prequels to original SW films, those stories lead up and are heavily to connected to that after it.

Don't compare this to PM. PM had a bad director. This didn't. It had a great director who can't tell a shit story from a good story.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 02:39 PM
A friend on FB posted a link to some reaching discussion on what it was all about (Prometheus, that is):

http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html

While that is an interesting read, if it turns out that Jesus was an alien and the Engineers want to kill humans for crucifying him then the movie is even dumber than I thought.

Also the guy claims the mural is the image of an engineer with his abdomen cut open. I don't see that in the mural at all.

I do, however, like this bit:

"As a closing point, let me draw your attention to a very different strand of symbolism that runs through Prometheus: the British science fiction show Doctor Who. In the 1970s episode 'The Daemons', an ancient mound is opened up, leading to an encounter with a gigantic being who proves to be an alien responsible for having guided mankind's development, and who now views mankind as a failed experiment that must be destroyed. The Engineers are seen tootling on flutes, in exactly the same way that the second Doctor does. The Third Doctor had an companion whose name was Liz Shaw, the same name as the protagonist of Prometheus. As with anything else in the film, it could all be coincidental; but knowing Ridley Scott, it doesn't seem very likely."

Supermallet
06-09-12, 02:40 PM
well now I see it why. Jesus. Just fucking outright say what you feel, man. Why do you beat around the bush?

You've got something at stake w/ this. I don't.

And think about it. Storywise? This new story is set in no way to fuck about w/ Alien...so far.

Don't compare this to PM. PM had a bad director. This didn't. It had a great director who can't tell a shit story from a good story.

Isn't part of being a great director telling a good story from a shit story? It can't just be about pretty pictures.

And I'm not beating around the bush. I've been very upfront with my reasons for disliking the film, and my reasons for saying I don't think you can disassociate it from Alien.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 02:48 PM
A friend on FB posted a link to some reaching discussion on what it was all about (Prometheus, that is):

http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html



Wow, I think that dude nailed it. I like the film even more now!

Solid Snake
06-09-12, 02:52 PM
Isn't part of being a great director telling a good story from a shit story? It can't just be about pretty pictures.

And I'm not beating around the bush. I've been very upfront with my reasons for disliking the film, and my reasons for saying I don't think you can disassociate it from Alien.

I'm not talking about your reasons, many of which I will easily agree with cuz..you're right..though a few (no more than 5 at most, I think) I'd disagree with. I'm talking about the way you feel, though they can also be easily connected as well. You had something personal at stake w/ this film which makes it stronger for you.

I'm not saying to literally disassociate it. That'd be stupid. It's in the same universe. They're connected. But not enough to call it a true prequel in the sense we know of them as.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 02:55 PM
The funny thing is, I have disassociated it, because if this movie is canonical, then it makes the rest of the series so much less interesting. To me, this film is a "what if" and is no more meaningful than fan fiction. However, I'm still mad because of how good it could have been.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 02:56 PM
I'm offended because this movie should have been excellent. Instead, it's not even good. Alien and Blade Runner are two of my favorite films. Scott's return to sci-fi should have been triumphant. He should have made people think while scaring the bejeezus out of them and making them stare in awe at worlds never before seen. Instead we got a movie that is to Alien what Phantom Menace is to Star Wars.

People say it has no connection to Alien. That's bullshit. Pure, outright bullshit. It was intended to be a prequel, and when they changed the premise they just substituted some generic monsters for the Xenomorph. It's a fucking search and replace job in Final Draft.

So yes, I'm mad. I'm mad because this should have been more. Because it could have been more. Because this confirms that Scott can't tell a good idea from a bad one. Because people still pay Lindelof to write when it's clear he sucks at it. Because Fassbender proves how good the rest of the movie could have been.



I guarantee in 10 or 20 years, those that hated this outright like you, will love it just like they did with Blade Runner.

And the Phantom Menace comparison is just ricockulous. This film DOES have worlds we've never seen. YOU wanted it to be another Alien or Aliens, which was already disclosed as NOT being like those. How old are you? You're coming off like a hurt fanboy even though you were given advance notice of what this was going to be (or not be) like.

I don't get the anger at all.

devilshalo
06-09-12, 02:58 PM
That this film tries to account for the xenonomorphs, makes it tie into the Alien film. Now it seems that the xenomorphs are some type of bio weapon created by them and they got out of control. Tho that does not tie into any of the Alien films/comics? :shrug:

How David came up with the idea of infecting Holloway with the sample would result in the creation of the squid baby was ridiculous. Not even the space jockeys could have foreseen that.

And had Vickers not revealed that Weyland was her father, I would have guessed she was married to him after being addressed earlier on as mother or mum or whatever by David.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 02:59 PM
Shaw isn't tall though...the Spacejockey was tall



It's only a guess that Shaw would be inside that Jockey suit. The other is that it's just another engineer who crashed on LV 426.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 03:00 PM
I'm 28 and Blade Runner benefits from production design that puts Prometheus to shame, a much better script, a killer score by Vangelis, a host of excellent performances (unlike Prometheus which only has one), and a multi-layered, fascinating villain. It's the kind of movie that asks questions and lets you figure out the answers, because the answers are there to be found in the film. Prometheus asks questions and laughs while you try in vain to find answers because there are none to be found.

And what new worlds did Prometheus show us? A dead rock of a planet? Saw that in Alien/Aliens. A bio-mechanical looking set of caves and a ship? Saw that in Alien, too.

And while I know you were trying to call me a fanboy in an attempt at a put down, I AM a fanboy of the Alien series. I've been a fan ever since I was four or five and saw a copy of HR Giger's Necronomicon on display at a bookstore, with the image that became the basis for the Xenomorph on the cover. I was drawn in by the design and from there devoured everything I could about the series. It's important to me. I think it's one of the most interesting series in modern film. And if Scott was going to return to the universe, then damn it, he has a responsibility to make a quality film that doesn't insult my intelligence, and doesn't rehash ideas from two other movies in the same series.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 03:07 PM
I'm 28 and Blade Runner benefits from production design that puts Prometheus to shame, a much better script, a killer score by Vangelis, a host of excellent performances (unlike Prometheus which only has one), and a multi-layered, fascinating villain. It's the kind of movie that asks questions and lets you figure out the answers, because the answers are there to be found in the film. Prometheus asks questions and laughs while you try in vain to find answers because there are none to be found.

And what new worlds did Prometheus show us? A dead rock of a planet? Saw that in Alien/Aliens. A bio-mechanical looking set of caves and a ship? Saw that in Alien, too.



Wow, I totally disagree. You know Giger worked on Prometheus too, right? You know those were actual sets right? You know they kept the cgi work at a minimum right? If they would have gone for what you wanted, this would have been a 300 million dollar film.

You wanted to be spoon-fed is what this comes down to. You wanted a linear story that would segue right into Alien, which you were already told was not going to happen. I'm glad that the film was multi-layered itself as opposed to just having one person be multi-layered. See, it goes back to my original point of people wanting Prometheus to have the same film template as Alien. That's your own fault for assuming that that's what it was going to be like.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 03:09 PM
I did not nor do I need to be spoon fed. Many of my favorite films are ambiguous and multi-layered. This movie is NOT multi-layered, it just pretends to be. It's all flash and no substance.

Do not write me off as wanting to be spoon fed. That's as insulting as me suggesting that you liked the movie because it had shiny lights and big explosions.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 03:17 PM
I did not nor do I need to be spoon fed. Many of my favorite films are ambiguous and multi-layered. This movie is NOT multi-layered, it just pretends to be. It's all flash and no substance.

Do not write me off as wanting to be spoon fed. That's as insulting as me suggesting that you liked the movie because it had shiny lights and big explosions.

Then disregard the spoon-fed comment for my second assertion. You wanted this to follow the template of the first film. It's clear as day, imo.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 03:20 PM
It didn't need to follow the template of the first film. It did need to have fully realized characters who didn't always make the dumbest possible decisions in every situation. It needed to have a premise that wasn't stolen from AvP, and a resolution that wasn't stolen from Alien: Resurrection. It needed to have a screenwriter who was interested in asking important questions and then giving people the opportunity to find answers. It needed to not suspend logic repeatedly. The film failed on all those levels.

rennervision
06-09-12, 03:21 PM
I just don't understand why everyone loving this movie is OK with the notion that practically all of this has to happen again on yet a different planet. A human will need to be infected, impregnate another human, spawn a giant facehugger that will attack a Space Jockey, said Space Jockey will need to sit in the cockpit of his ship, then a Xenomorph will burst out of his chest, stranding the ship on the planet. I'm willing to suspend disbelief, but not to ludicrous levels.

I could have overlooked every silly moment: Scientists with mapping devices getting lost and ending up in the very room that spooked them to then cuddle with space cobras. No one bothering to ask why a crew-member is running around covered in blood with staples in her stomach. Characters I didn't even know were onboard the ship suddenly dying. (Really elevates the tension when a meaningless character you don't care about dies! That stuff is straight out of the AVP playbook if you ask me.)

But - I can't overlook these moments based on how this ended. If the movie doesn't even have enough sense to tie the events of this story to the first Alien, that's where I consider it to be the final insult to my intelligence - because the movie spent two hours pretending to be profound when it has nothing to say.

I suspect the reason we were left with big gaping plotholes is a desperate attempt to create a new franchise and milk this thing for all its worth. Except the story is too shallow to spread out over three films. They should have just concentrated on telling one awe-inspiring story this time around (you know, like most good movies do!), when instead they wimped out and aimed for part 1of a trilogy that I doubt will ever see a sequel.

So I don't plan on holding my breath for any kind of followup addressing the unanswered questions. Which therefore puts this movie in the same category as Terminator: Salvation which (like Prometheus) could have been good if it actually had the courage to tell a complete story that wrapped up the events in its own mythology.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 03:31 PM
It didn't need to follow the template of the first film. It did need to have fully realized characters who didn't always make the dumbest possible decisions in every situation. It needed to have a premise that wasn't stolen from AvP, and a resolution that wasn't stolen from Alien: Resurrection. It needed to have a screenwriter who was interested in asking important questions and then giving people the opportunity to find answers. It needed to not suspend logic repeatedly. The film failed on all those levels.


It didn't need to, but you would have preferred it to.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 03:33 PM
If the movie were well written with strong characters, it could have followed the template of Who Framed Roger Rabbit for all I care.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 03:33 PM
I just don't understand why everyone loving this movie is OK with the notion that practically all of this has to happen again on yet a different planet. A human will need to be infected, impregnate another human, spawn a giant facehugger that will attack a Space Jockey, said Space Jockey will need to sit in the cockpit of his ship, then a Xenomorph will burst out of his chest, stranding the ship on the planet. I'm willing to suspend disbelief, but not to ludicrous levels.

I could have overlooked every silly moment: Scientists with mapping devices getting lost and ending up in the very room that spooked them to then cuddle with space cobras. No one bothering to ask why a crew-member is running around covered in blood with staples in her stomach. Characters I didn't even know were onboard the ship suddenly dying. (Really elevates the tension when a meaningless character you don't care about dies! That stuff is straight out of the AVP playbook if you ask me.)

But - I can't overlook these moments based on how this ended. If the movie doesn't even have enough sense to tie the events of this story to the first Alien, that's where I consider it to be the final insult to my intelligence - because the movie spent two hours pretending to be profound when it has nothing to say.

I suspect the reason we were left with big gaping plotholes is a desperate attempt to create a new franchise and milk this thing for all its worth. Except the story is too shallow to spread out over three films. They should have just concentrated on telling one awe-inspiring story this time around (you know, like most good movies do!), when instead they wimped out and aimed for part 1of a trilogy that I doubt will ever see a sequel.

So I don't plan on holding my breath for any kind of followup addressing the unanswered questions. Which therefore puts this movie in the same category as Terminator: Salvation which (like Prometheus) could have been good if it actually had the courage to tell a complete story that wrapped up the events in its own mythology.


Ah, you wanted the Keep It Simple Stupid rule in effect here. Then just watch Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 03:35 PM
If the movie were well written with strong characters, it could have followed the template of Who Framed Roger Rabbit for all I care.




Shaw WAS strong! The other off base comparison I'm seeing is the whole: Shaw ain't Ripley. No shit, Ripley's had FOUR fucking films to develop. I hope Shaw does become the new Ripley in this Prometheus universe should they make a sequel to this film.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 03:36 PM
Keep it simple, stupid is a rule in effect for storytellers who tend to make things needlessly complicated. This movie could definitely have used a heaping dose of KISS.

Cardiff Giant11
06-09-12, 03:36 PM
Saw it last night in Real 3D. I had read some spoilers going in so I expected to dislike it but I ended up liking it a bit though it was far from great.

The good:
Visuals were stunning in 3D, Fassbender was awesome, Space Jockey design worked for me which surprised me, creature design was better than expected

the bad:
the deviation from what we know of the Alien life cycle, some very cardboard characters and hokey dialog

The ugly:
HORRIBLE score, sounded like it belonged in a world war 2 movie not a sci fi horror film. It built like zero tension. I also wasn't a fan of some seemingly poor edits and cuts as well as some concept art/designs that were left out.

I'm going to Spoiler this just in case but my and a few other's seem to think this is the best way to explain it all.
The derelict in Alien crashed(due to the jockey being chestbursted) thousands of years ago carrying the last eggs of the Xenomorph and was never seen again by them. The engineers saw it as a perfect weapon and much like Weyland Yutani, we trying to get their hands on it somehow and were attempting to re create it. This would explain the mural that seemed like it was some sort of worship or tribute to the xenomorph. The black goo contained some strand of the aliens dna characteristics that caused creatures it came into contact with to experience xenomorph like traits. This explains why the worms became the hammerpedes with acidic blood and also why (especially in the original concept work) Fifeld appeared to be mutating into something resembling a xenomorph. Fast forward to the whole Shaw bit and you have something that inherits some of the traits of a facehugger/chestburster but since it's based on a recreation of the original xenomorph DNA, things are different which explains why the alien in the end while similar doesn't have a tail and has a different jaw than our "classic" xenomoprhs. think of it like how humans created androids. Jockeys were trying to recreated the seemingly extinct perfect weapon that was the xenomorph but failed and that was what caused the outbreak on LV-223. It wasn't until years later that the company stumbled across the distress signal on LV-426 and sent the crew of the Nostromo that the original "pure" xenomorph was found again. The original xenomorph was just another naturally occurring species and wasn't created by the engineers instead they were trying to recreate it but failed and in the process created a different but similar species.

Overall I liked it more than I thought but still didn't love it. Was worth seeing in 3D in the theater. I'll be interested in seeing if any sort of extended edition comes out on Blu Ray.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 03:38 PM
Keep it simple, stupid is a rule in effect for storytellers who tend to make things needlessly complicated. This movie could definitely have used a heaping dose of KISS.


And you were wrong for thinking it would have that.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 03:40 PM
Shaw WAS strong! The other off base comparison I'm seeing is the whole: Shaw ain't Ripley. No shit, Ripley's had FOUR fucking films to develop. I hope Shaw does become the new Ripley in this Prometheus universe should they make a sequel to this film.

Shaw was NOT strong. I didn't give two shits about her. The one flashback with her father is not enough to develop the character, nor is the blase admission that she's barren. David, on the other hand, was (strong, that is, not barren). Vickers could have been if they bothered to develop her at all, which they didn't.

I don't recall making comparisons to Ripley. I didn't need another Ripley in this film, and I don't think the two are similar at all. Ripley is practical and down to earth. She worries about what's right in front of her. Shaw is idealistic and worries about the big picture.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 03:41 PM
Saw it last night in Real 3D. I had read some spoilers going in so I expected to dislike it but I ended up liking it a bit though it was far from great.

The good:
Visuals were stunning in 3D, Fassbender was awesome, Space Jockey design worked for me which surprised me, creature design was better than expected

the bad:
the deviation from what we know of the Alien life cycle, some very cardboard characters and hokey dialog

The ugly:
HORRIBLE score, sounded like it belonged in a world war 2 movie not a sci fi horror film. It built like zero tension. I also wasn't a fan of some seemingly poor edits and cuts as well as some concept art/designs that were left out.

I'm going to Spoiler this just in case but my and a few other's seem to think this is the best way to explain it all.
The derelict in Alien crashed(due to the jockey being chestbursted) thousands of years ago carrying the last eggs of the Xenomorph and was never seen again by them. The engineers saw it as a perfect weapon and much like Weyland Yutani, we trying to get their hands on it somehow and were attempting to re create it. This would explain the mural that seemed like it was some sort of worship or tribute to the xenomorph. The black goo contained some strand of the aliens dna characteristics that caused creatures it came into contact with to experience xenomorph like traits. This explains why the worms became the hammerpedes with acidic blood and also why (especially in the original concept work) Fifeld appeared to be mutating into something resembling a xenomorph. Fast forward to the whole Shaw bit and you have something that inherits some of the traits of a facehugger/chestburster but since it's based on a recreation of the original xenomorph DNA, things are different which explains why the alien in the end while similar doesn't have a tail and has a different jaw than our "classic" xenomoprhs. think of it like how humans created androids. Jockeys were trying to recreated the seemingly extinct perfect weapon that was the xenomorph but failed and that was what caused the outbreak on LV-223. It wasn't until years later that the company stumbled across the distress signal on LV-426 and sent the crew of the Nostromo that the original "pure" xenomorph was found again. The original xenomorph was just another naturally occurring species and wasn't created by the engineers instead they were trying to recreate it but failed and in the process created a different but similar species.

Overall I liked it more than I thought but still didn't love it. Was worth seeing in 3D in the theater. I'll be interested in seeing if any sort of extended edition comes out on Blu Ray.



Yes, I agree with most of what you said in your spoilers paragraph.

rennervision
06-09-12, 03:41 PM
Ah, you wanted the Keep It Simple Stupid rule in effect here. Then just watch Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection.

Not sure why disliking Prometheus means I would prefer those two, which I refuse to ever watch again.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 03:42 PM
And you were wrong for thinking it would have that.

But not wrong for thinking it SHOULD have that. Lindelof should be forced to follow it on pain of death.

Cardiff, your theory is the best one I've yet heard. I think it's great. In fact, it makes so much more sense than what the movie implies that I'm almost certain the filmmakers didn't think of it at all.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 03:45 PM
Shaw was NOT strong. I didn't give two shits about her. The one flashback with her father is not enough to develop the character, nor is the blase admission that she's barren. David, on the other hand, was. Vickers could have been if they bothered to develop her at all, which they didn't.

I don't recall making comparisons to Ripley. I didn't need another Ripley in this film, and I don't think the two are similar at all. Ripley is practical and down to earth. She worries about what's right in front of her. Shaw is idealistic and worries about the big picture.


I didn't say you said anything about the Ripley/Shaw comparisons, I just made the general statement about certain folks complaining about "Shaw ain't no Ripley."

Seriously, she was strong on an emotional level and physical level. I do hope that it gets fleshed out more in the director's or unrated cut. That cut of her clasping her hands in prayer in the trailer was not in the theatrical of the film. That would have cinched it for me. Right there, she's in mortal danger, and questions her faith.

You didn't give two shits about anything it seems. You had your own preconceived notions about what the film should have been like.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 03:46 PM
Yes, I had the preconceived notion that the film should be good. And I gave two shits about David, as I've stressed repeatedly.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 03:50 PM
Not sure why disliking Prometheus means I would prefer those two, which I refuse to ever watch again.


That's how I read into it.

rennervision
06-09-12, 03:52 PM
That's how I read into it.

Then I guess you misinterpreted.

Solid Snake
06-09-12, 04:02 PM
Supermallet, I respect your words a lot for the most part. And the ONLY way I mentally connect w/ you and your huge emotions on this is if I could get this angry from The Expendables..or to a lesser extent Transformers, Green Lantern, Superman, and Terminator.

You've been a fan for so long. Blah blah blah insert nostalgia, fandom, etc. You get a film w/ a premise promising you something want (or close to it) and it fails you.

Now the difference is that...jesus titty fucking christ. You are way to involved w/ Alien (and whatever that as a whole means). You are way too involved w/ something that doesn't even know you (in the literal sense...you..being Supermallet) exist.

Mellow out, man. Yes. I agree w/ you and was glad you posted that list of faults cuz I sure as hell don't feel like typing that all on my Blackberry. BUT...relax.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 04:04 PM
Supermallet, I respect your words a lot for the most part. And the ONLY way I mentally connect w/ you and your huge emotions on this is if I could get this angry from The Expendables..or to a lesser extent Transformers, Green Lantern, Superman, and Terminator.

You've been a fan for so long. Blah blah blah insert nostalgia, fandom, etc. You get a film w/ a premise promising you something want (or close to it) and it fails you.

Now the difference is that...jesus titty fucking christ. You are way to involved w/ Alien (and whatever that as a whole means). You are way too involved w/ something that doesn't even know you (in the literal sense...you..being Supermallet) exist.

Mellow out, man. Yes. I agree w/ you and was glad you posted that list of faults cuz I sure as hell don't feel like typing that all on my Blackberry. BUT...relax.

Wait, Supermallet is a fan of the Transformers and Green Lantern films? Did I just waste my fucking time going back and forth with him?

bcd
06-09-12, 04:05 PM
I'm going to Spoiler this just in case but my and a few other's seem to think this is the best way to explain it all.
The derelict in Alien crashed(due to the jockey being chestbursted) thousands of years ago carrying the last eggs of the Xenomorph and was never seen again by them. The engineers saw it as a perfect weapon and much like Weyland Yutani, we trying to get their hands on it somehow and were attempting to re create it. This would explain the mural that seemed like it was some sort of worship or tribute to the xenomorph. The black goo contained some strand of the aliens dna characteristics that caused creatures it came into contact with to experience xenomorph like traits. This explains why the worms became the hammerpedes with acidic blood and also why (especially in the original concept work) Fifeld appeared to be mutating into something resembling a xenomorph. Fast forward to the whole Shaw bit and you have something that inherits some of the traits of a facehugger/chestburster but since it's based on a recreation of the original xenomorph DNA, things are different which explains why the alien in the end while similar doesn't have a tail and has a different jaw than our "classic" xenomoprhs. think of it like how humans created androids. Jockeys were trying to recreated the seemingly extinct perfect weapon that was the xenomorph but failed and that was what caused the outbreak on LV-223. It wasn't until years later that the company stumbled across the distress signal on LV-426 and sent the crew of the Nostromo that the original "pure" xenomorph was found again. The original xenomorph was just another naturally occurring species and wasn't created by the engineers instead they were trying to recreate it but failed and in the process created a different but similar species.



I kind of like your take on that. Here were my thoughts
The black goo that we are seeing is the start of the whole alien life cycle. With each generational change there are huge evolutionary leaps that happen when the initial alien DNA combines with the host. This is noticed most specifically with the Dog Alien from Alien 3 and the Predator Alien from whatever movie that was from. You can see that the little cobra aliens have a small resembalnce to the Face Huggers that we all know and love. The alien DNA goes from very simple looking creatures to more complex by the end of the movie. My presumption was the alien that came form the engineer would lead to the impregnation of the "Space Jockey" and the alien that we know and love from ALIEN. I still need to flesh out my thoughts on this some to connect the dots. I am a a little tired and apologize if this makes no sense. .

Also, really enjoyed the movie but for the life of me I can't figure out why the hell someone would bring their 8yr old daughter to this movie. And then not do anything when she is crying and screaming in pure terror except telling her to be quiet.

Burnt Thru
06-09-12, 04:05 PM
Important questions?! What the fuck? As much as I love Alien and Aliens what were the important questions asked in those films? Which if any crew member is going to survive?

This film didn't have to answer or ask any "important questions". Neither was there a lack of any characterization (certainly far better in this regard than the 3rd and 4th film in the same universe). The problems it has are more to do with a screenplay asking too many questions and providing too few answers, and on occasion simply ignoring the questions it has hinted at. It's certainly flawed but also fun and contains some stunning visuals. Much of the hate on this thread seems to come from people unhappy with the way it fits into the Alien universe, which is largely a question of preconceived expectations failing to be met.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 04:11 PM
Important questions?! What the fuck? As much as I love Alien and Aliens what were the important questions asked in those films? Which if any crew member is going to survive?

This film didn't have to answer or ask any "important questions". Neither was there a lack of any characterization (certainly far better in this regard than the 3rd and 4th film in the same universe). The problems it has are more to do with a screenplay asking too many questions and providing too few answers, and on occasion simply ignoring the questions it has hinted at. It's certainly flawed but also fun and contains some stunning visuals. Much of the hate on this thread seems to come from people unhappy with the way it fits into the Alien universe, which is largely a question of preconceived expectations failing to be met.

Exactly.

Why So Blu?
06-09-12, 04:14 PM
I kind of like your take on that. Here were my thoughts
The black goo that we are seeing is the start of the whole alien life cycle. With each generational change there are huge evolutionary leaps that happen when the initial alien DNA combines with the host. This is noticed most specifically with the Dog Alien from Alien 3 and the Predator Alien from whatever movie that was from. You can see that the little cobra aliens have a small resembalnce to the Face Huggers that we all know and love. The alien DNA goes from very simple looking creatures to more complex by the end of the movie. My presumption was the alien that came form the engineer would lead to the impregnation of the "Space Jockey" and the alien that we know and love from ALIEN. I still need to flesh out my thoughts on this some to connect the dots. I am a a little tired and apologize if this makes no sense. .

Also, really enjoyed the movie but for the life of me I can't figure out why the hell someone would bring their 8yr old daughter to this movie. And then not do anything when she is crying and screaming in pure terror except telling her to be quiet.



Yes! Exactly. I also agree with your paragraph in the spoilers. Some folks just don't see the correlation.

Supermallet
06-09-12, 04:25 PM
Wait, Supermallet is a fan of the Transformers and Green Lantern films? Did I just waste my fucking time going back and forth with him?

I liked the first Transformers although it has bloat and unnecessary characters. The second and third are abominable. Green Lantern was meh.

And Snake, sometimes it's good to get the blood going. I will always love the Alien series, and will always be passionate about it.

Oh, and plenty of us get the correlation between the goo and the Xenomorphs. We just think it's stupid. I much prefer Cardiff Giant's thoughts about it.

anomynous
06-09-12, 04:29 PM
Alien and Aliens had "deep questions" and Ripley was a "deep" character?


That's news to me