Welshlad

I was reading the small print on the front of my R1 Shaft (2000) DVD, and there was a little sticker on there for buy 4 get 1 free etc. and as I expected it was not open to us international users. However, it was open to ALL Canadians, except those in Quebec? Why does this exclusion apply? It seems a little harsh to me – is there something that prevents them from offering this to those there?
Just wondering that’s all…


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Welshlad
There's no need for you to tell me you think I'm right - We'll just assume that!

Feneant

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Welshlad:
I was reading the small print on the front of my R1 Shaft (2000) DVD, and there was a little sticker on there for buy 4 get 1 free etc. and as I expected it was not open to us international users. However, it was open to ALL Canadians, except those in Quebec? Why does this exclusion apply? It seems a little harsh to me – is there something that prevents them from offering this to those there?
Just wondering that’s all…
<HR>

I forget the details, but Quebec has different laws than the rest of the country, kinda like gambling, even contests they need to answers some sorta mathematical questions to pick up their prize. Around here, tons of offers aren't available in Quebec, but you get used to it.

GoldfishLegs

It's pretty simple: GREED.

The Quebec gaming commission brings in lots of dough and they do whatever they can to discourage outside contests. Basically any entity that wants to offer a contest to Quebec residents has to pay a percentage of the prize value to the Quebec gaming commission. Most bail out when they see that. The majority of contests & sweepstakes online are not available in Quebec - even Canadian ones! For instance, all Chapters.ca contests exclude Quebec.

Another deterrent is that the contest must be available in French. So the entity has to hire a translation person just for the contests! It's absurd.

The Quebec government even managed to have Nintendo concede to translating all their game manuals to French before they'd be allowed to sell any games in Quebec - but that's a whole other sack of onions...

Fhrx

You guys serious? That's incredible!

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Regards...
Drinker of much Pepsi, trainer of Dingo's and Jack's Aussie Moonshine importer...
John 3:16

Welshlad

Thanks for the reply! I never had any idea it was anything as cynical or unfair as that!
Jeez, and we moan here in 'rip-off' britain!

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Welshlad
There's no need for you to tell me you think I'm right - We'll just assume that!

Feneant

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jujubee:
The Quebec government even managed to have Nintendo concede to translating all their game manuals to French before they'd be allowed to sell any games in Quebec - but that's a whole other sack of onions...
<HR>

Thanks to this, they goofed and the first Final Fantasy IX shipment to Canada had a french manual only, I found that kinda funny.
Jujubee, I saw your name in Tactical Ops - UT the other day, might have been a friend of yours.

Real Boba Fett

I have also seen this offer and I don't know why... I know that we cannot in many participate contests , but I have to admit that it is the first time I have seen this for an OFFER. Since it is not a constest, I don't know why they won't accept us. And I already participate to offers like this one before and never had a problem, it was open to Quebec.

And to add to his the Warner/New Line "Buy 5, Get 1 free" is offered in Québec. And it is only in English. They don't have to write it in French if they don't want to. For example when Alladvantage began, since I live in Québec, I had to first accept that I would receive the "service" only in English, it was in the agreement.

Lotoquébec is controlling all the contests/gambling. I hate them for contests because many companies don't allow us to participate but all they have to do is ask us a mathematical question for example. That way it is not a lottery because we had to WORK to get the prize (stupid but it works well). As for gambling I am all for it. They make tons of cash with this and I prefer that it is the government that gets the money instead of already rich guys, we already pay enough taxes.

The manuals in French for Sony/Nintendo is not a big deal. When I was young all the game manuals for the Nintendo 8-bit were English and French. I don't think it is a big problem for companies to hire 1 person to translate a small manuel (if you work in the "computer" sector, you know that a translator is really cheap next to a programmer!!!)

Sorry if it is a bit long but I had to defend my province (which sometimes does stupid things, but not always... not more than other provinces anyway. A politician remains a politician )

[This message has been edited by Real Boba Fett (edited January 09, 2001).]

boies00

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jujubee:
Another deterrent is that the contest must be available in French. So the entity has to hire a translation person just for the contests! It's absurd.

The Quebec government even managed to have Nintendo concede to translating all their game manuals to French before they'd be allowed to sell any games in Quebec - but that's a whole other sack of onions...
<HR>

Many Canadians don't seem to realize that a large percentage of the population in Quebec simply don't understand English, or barely. History as shown that companies do not care to spend money on any translation unless they are forced to.

Since French is the only official language in Quebec (as English is the officail language of all provinces except New Brunswick), it's no wonder the government tries to assure adequate service in their language to people living here.

Unfortunately, this biased understanding of Quebec politics and culture simply keeps the gap wide open between the French and English-speaking communities in Canada. If there is confusion on such basic matters, no wonder there is a distrust on every level when critical decisions are to take place between governments.

GoldfishLegs

quote:<HR>Originally posted by boies00:
Since French is the only official language in Quebec (as English is the officail language of all provinces except New Brunswick), it's no wonder the government tries to assure adequate service in their language to people living here.
<HR>

I agree with you on this point, but "adequate" is a subjective term. I don't agree with taxpayers' money funding the OLF's gestapo tactics.

For those that don't know the OLF (aka "The Language Police"), they are paid to walk around the city with a measuring tape and measure the relative sizes of the lettering on business signs. If the French letters are not twice as large as the English lettering, THEY FINE THE BUSINESS! I'm not making this up. There are many other tactics they engage in, but this is a DVD forum so I don't want to have this get out of hand.

Protecting the language and culture is one thing, and I agree that it does require an active approach, but in my opinion, the OLF just goes too far most of the time.

boies00

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jujubee:

Protecting the language and culture is one thing, and I agree that it does require an active approach, but in my opinion, the OLF just goes too far most of the time.<HR>

Another biased understanding from somebody not living in Quebec.

As soon as we talk about protective linguistic laws, somebody has to come with the OLF actions. I don't deny its existence, but they only act on complains from citizen and have maybe an handful of inspectors - a minority of which are probably overzealous. Their role is always amplified by activists that can't accept the linguistic laws here and taken by other Canadians as if the linguistic police was patrolling the streets

The main goal of the OLF organization is to ensure that the publicity is in French and reflect the French face of Quebec. If you look at older pictures of Quebec City, from the 1950s, you'll see that nearly every signs on the shops were in English while the population is 99% French-speaking. If the government is not vigilant, it could happen again. People who care for the survival of French in this part of the world don't have a lot of alternatives. Actions who may seems extreme to one group, may be hardly sufficent for the other.

Quebec may not be perfect in the treatment of its English minority, but so are other Canadian provinces with their own French minority. Their situation is in some case still very difficult, even critical. French people in Ontario and Prince Edward Island - and many other places - are still fighting for their rights. How about the decades spent to obtain French schools, which is still far from over? Or the will of the Ontarian government to close the only French hospital in Ottawa? And what about Ottawa, the capital of Canada, which is now losing is bilingual status...

These examples are a side of the Canadian reality that is rarely spread on the international forums. They are however - in my opinion - far more important than debating over the size of letters on a sign. No wonder French Quebecers are fed up with patronizing from the rest of Canada.

As you said, this is a DVD forum and we should call an end to this debate. But please be careful when spreading biased or incomplete facts.

Now to come back to DVD, here is an interesting problem for many Quebecers: not enough French tracks -- it's probably even restraining the acceptance of the format in Quebec.

Only a few studios automatically includes French dubbing on their releases -- and French subtitling is not an adequate replacement. Unlike other North American audience, foreign language films are never shown subtitled either in cinemas, on tv or on VHS. So people are used and expect French on DVDs too. It's such a problem that shops are forced to put stickers on DVDs stating that it is only in English!!!

benedict

quote:<HR><small>Originally posted by boies00: Another biased understanding from somebody not living in Quebec. [....] These examples are a side of the Canadian reality that is rarely spread on the international forums. They are however - in my opinion - far more important than debating over the size of letters on a sign. No wonder French Quebecers are fed up with patronizing from the rest of Canada.</small><HR>

I once read that if Quebec became "independent" it would lose its legal right to administer vast swathes of North American Indian land because the treaties say that Quebec controls these territories on behalf of Canada: if it leaves Canada then these territories which aren't legally part of Quebec "proper" revert to Canada. Is this correct?

Perhaps I should ask this on the Other Forum but I'm guessing not everyone here reads it and boies00 has already widened the debate/addressed some assumptions apparently implicit in other posts.


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Occasional, unintentional Thread Killer!!

boies00

quote:<HR>Originally posted by benedict:
[QUOTE]I once read that if Quebec became "independent" it would lose its legal right to administer vast swathes of North American Indian land because the treaties say that Quebec controls these territories on behalf of Canada: if it leaves Canada then these territories which aren't legally part of Quebec "proper" revert to Canada. Is this correct?
<HR>

The Northern parts of Quebec, Ontario and Manitoba were transfered from federal administration at the beginning of the century and then administered by these provinces ever since. Can they revert to Federal administration? This is a debated issue.

The new states emerging from the former USSR and Yugoslavia have gained independence with their actual borders even if they were not their historical ones and despite some having very large minorities (ex.: Moldavia, Latvia). This the concept generally acknowledged in Quebec by all political parties.

However, some English-speaking activists and hard-line Federalists have brought forward the idea that they can also split the province if parts choose to remain with Canada. This is unfortunately, once again, the only story reported internationally and taken as a fact by those hearing it.

In any case, contesting the borders of an hypothetical independent Quebec could open further discussion about the ownership of Labrador that was largely transferred from Quebec to Newfoundland when this province joined Canada in 1949 - this was done without the agreement of Quebec, and it is still contested nowadays.

GoldfishLegs

Just FYI, I live in Montreal.

And I think this discussion has gone off the deep end for a DVD forum.

Welshlad

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jujubee:
...And I think this discussion has gone off the deep end for a DVD forum. <HR>

I agree, but its still interesting nevetheless! Keep it going!


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Welshlad
There's no need for you to tell me you think I'm right - We'll just assume that!

yangshouwen

I agree with welshlad, it's nice to learn from other about parts of the world wher you wouldn't usually care about. Doesn't China have a weird system? Europe does, Brussels are a pack of ignorant politicians, where would you get a ban on trivial stuff, such as curved bananas(or was that the other way round?). It's interesting, so keep it up.

benedict

quote:<HR><small>Originally posted by boies00: some English-speaking activists and hard-line Federalists have brought forward the idea that they can also split the province if parts choose to remain with Canada. This is unfortunately, once again, the only story reported internationally and taken as a fact by those hearing it.</small><HR>

Thanks for the clarification. You'll have noticed that, as someone living outside Canada, I didn't actually take the story as fact but asked whether it was true.

Those "English-speaking activists and hard-line Federalists" sound like a bunch of rascals.... although I guess any final decision will have to be based on what the various treaties/agreements of the time actually said rather than what may or may not be acknowledged by people generally (or even by political parties). A new state would not get off to a good start if it was tempted to make one of its first major acts to ignore legally binding agreements.


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Occasional, unintentional Thread Killer!!

boies00

quote:<HR>Originally posted by benedict:
Those "English-speaking activists and hard-line Federalists" sound like a bunch of rascals.... although I guess any final decision will have to be based on what the various treaties/agreements of the time actually said rather than what may or may not be acknowledged by people generally (or even by political parties). A new state would not get off to a good start if it was tempted to make one of its first major acts to ignore legally binding agreements.
[/B]<HR>

All this discussion is very hypothetical since independence for Quebec is not likely to happen for awhile, if ever. Most Quebecers don't want to separate from Canada -- it's an idea shared by only 30% of all the people here -- but a large majority feel that their French heritage is a lot more important than their Canadian one.

Jujubee -- Sorry, I didn't realized you lived in Montreal. Your comments seemed too stereotyped to come from somebody living in Quebec...

Nicolas

I must say that ''in the beginning'' there where 2 canada's, Lower Canada the french part of northern america and Upper Canada (where the americain loyalists and the british colonists lived). At that time, there where 2 nations, it is written that way in our constitution...

But with time, anglophone immigration grew (it was controlled by the British gouvernement, because of our being a british dominon) and the french became a minority. Still today, we represent 21% of the Canadian population and we are mostly living in Quebec (where 90% of the population speaks french every day of their life).

So the idea of the partition of the english speaking part of Quebec in event of a separation of Quebec from Canada is luducrist... not only historically, but practically.

We must not forget that tree other English Dominions did fractionned their territories into enclaves.
1-Ireland (Northern & Ireland)
2-India (Pakistan & India)
3-Israel (Palestinian territories & Israel)
Need I say more...

On a more DVD related field. In Quebec we have another one of these insidious :0 ''Offices''(in fact we have quite a few) that one is called the Office de la protection du consommateur (Consumer protection bureau, litteraly).
They also have inspectors (!) but most important, they are there to prevent agressive company pratices. Of the many fields in witch it operates (comparing brands, testing toys for safety, representing deceived consumer in legal procedures...) marketing is one. And they have decreted that a company cannot promise a consumer a free item if they buy more than one product.

It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with the Gambling office called Loto-quebec. It is only a matter of protecting the consumers against agressive marketing pratices. In order to understand these laws, you must know that our society was built on catholic faith, and these ideas are pretty different from Protestant ethics, that is economicaly speaking...

So there it is.

GoldfishLegs

quote:<HR>Originally posted by boies00:
Jujubee -- Sorry, I didn't realized you lived in Montreal. Your comments seemed too stereotyped to come from somebody living in Quebec...<HR>

I avoid politics completely. My comments stem from what I hear on the news concerning the activities of the OLF. Their actions speak for themselves:

- Small mom ' pop shops like "Lion & the Walrus" get sued for their "English only" company name. I haven't heard of large companies being sued - Chapters, Sam The Record Man, Second Cup, MusicWorld, FutureShop, etc - why isn't the OLF going after them? Because they could properly defend themselves in court! IMO a company name should not be a subject of language disputes. Sure, add "livres" or "musique" or "cafe" or whatever at the front/end of the name, but the name itself should not be changed because of the language it happens to be in.

- they went after a little used video game shop because his business cards did not have a french "jeux" on it

- they fined a poor plumber because the lettering on the side of his van was bilingual but the french letters were not twice the size of the english letters. He couldn't pay the fine, so the OLF took his van.

- They fined a little road-stop diner for not having a french version of the word "TRASH" on the GARBAGE CANS! Yes, the garbage cans.

And this is only what I can remember off-hand... there is much more.

boies00

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jujubee:
- Small mom ' pop shops like "Lion & the Walrus" get sued for their "English only" company name. I haven't heard of large companies being sued - Chapters, Sam The Record Man, Second Cup, MusicWorld, FutureShop, etc - why isn't the OLF going after them? Because they could properly defend themselves in court! IMO a company name should not be a subject of language disputes. Sure, add "livres" or "musique" or "cafe" or whatever at the front/end of the name, but the name itself should not be changed because of the language it happens to be in. <HR>

The current government has denounced the attitude of the French-speaking extemists that would like to have only French company names on signs -- especially condemning the one that tried to burn down several "Second Cup" coffee shops.

The problem with "The Lion and the Walrus", as it was reproted in the French news, was that one side of the sign was in English and the other one in French ("Le Lion & Le Morse") and consequently felt under different law than companies such as "Future Shop" or "Music World".

I agree with you that the law is not perfect, and there are extremist people in both communities. If the OLF had to intervene in the other affairs, it's surely because somebody complained about it -- they never act by themselves.

I live in Quebec where nearly everebody is speaking French, so the situation is probably quite different than in Montreal. But I remember clearly when I was in high school being quite disturbed by a sign completely in English at "McKenna's Florist" in the old part of Quebec city. At the time, it simply felt wrong.

And althought I am now 20 years older and much more open than many of my relatives and friends to these questions, I am still disturbed by some English-only advertising policies.

The last time I visited your city I was surprised by the number of bilingual signs and the fact that I was often aproached in English when I visited shops. Many of my friends reported the same problem and some even left to shop elsewhere.

I sincerely think that the linguistic laws and the OLF are a necessity today in Quebec. Whatever they are right or not is quite debatable, depending on which side if the question you stand. In ant case, they are more flexible than a few years ago when English was simply banned from signs.

Nicolas

Boie as pinpointed the problem. I live in Montreal and the problem is so evident. For every retail store that is following the law, there is another on that is testing it. And that is exactly what is going on whit the Lion and the Walrus... they want to take their case to the supreme court (even though it as already been done!).

But in the end it is people like me that are complaining at the OLF... As you can see, I can speak english (german too!), I do work overseas, I earned a Ph.D. in a discipline witch had most of its litterature in english and I read some books & watch some movies just for fun in english...crist! even my best friend is an anglophone!

But when it come to living in my city, I absolutely do not want it to look like a second grade Toronto. I want it to looks like Montréal, the biggest french-speaking city in America.
So as long as some retail store will test and brake the law, they will be fined, and the OLF will continue to exist!

And if that's what it takes Jujubee to be able to speak my langage, that is fine by me...

huzefa

Hmm... when I lived in Montreal, I never ever saw any English signs on a strip club, .... only French ones. Vive le Quebec! Oh, and I'd kill for a Schwartz's sandwich right now....

Nicolas

Chez Parée is very french...indeed!