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View Full Version : Game of Thrones -- "The Ghost of Harrenhal" -- 4/29/12


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DJariya
04-29-12, 05:43 AM
<img src="http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/8861/gameofthronesseason2pos.jpg" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/><br/>By <a target="_new" href="http://profile.imageshack.us/user/djariya">djariya</a> at 2012-04-01

Synopsis:

The Baratheon rivalry ends, drawing different reactions from Catelyn and Littlefinger; Tyrion finds Joffrey's defense plan at King's Landing lacking, but also learns of a mysterious secret weapon; Theon continues to prove himself to his father by sailing to the Stony Shore; Arya gets a promise from Jaqen H'ghar; the Night's Watch regroup at an ancient fortress called the Fist of the First Men.

Episode 5 of 10

Promo:

<object width="512" height="288"><param name="movie" value="http://www.hbo.com/bin/hboPlayerV2.swf?vid=1251799"></param><param name="FlashVars" value="domain=http://www.hbo.com&videoTitle=Episode 15 - Preview&copyShareURL=http%3A//www.hbo.com/video/video.html/%3Fautoplay%3Dtrue%26vid%3D1251799%26filter%3Dgame-of-thrones%26view%3Dnull"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.hbo.com/bin/hboPlayerV2.swf?vid=1251799" FlashVars="domain=http://www.hbo.com&videoTitle=Episode 15 - Preview&copyShareURL=http%3A//www.hbo.com/video/video.html/%3Fautoplay%3Dtrue%26vid%3D1251799%26filter%3Dgame-of-thrones%26view%3Dnull" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="512" height="288"></embed></object><div><a title="Episode 15 - Preview" href="http://www.hbo.com/video/video.html/?autoplay=true&vid=1251799&filter=game-of-thrones&view=null">Episode 15 - Preview</a></div>

Again, if you need some reference, here's the season 2 guide.

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season2


If you really really really need to talk about the books, there is that other thread.

Dr. DVD
04-29-12, 08:40 AM
Anxious to see more of the Night Watch stuff. The clips in the season previews look mind blowing, and all the more impressive that it's location shooting.

starman9000
04-29-12, 08:46 AM
Can't wait for tonight.

mcnabb
04-29-12, 08:48 AM
Halfway through the season already? I wish they did 12 or 13 episodes as this is going too fast!

Dr. DVD
04-29-12, 08:52 AM
^ You're going to hate what they do next season if the rumors of them splitting it hold true. The challenge this series faces if doing enough to keep the audience interested while simultaneously providing Martin with enough time to keep the series current.

I guess if need be, they could make a prequel series about the ancient history of Westeros that was outlined very well on the Blu-Ray extras.

EDIT: I just checked Martin's site, and IMHO, he might get more done if he spent less time travelling to conventions and appearances and more writing. :shrug:

pinata242
04-29-12, 09:23 AM
These episodes are too few and too far between. Cannot wait to see it twice tonight!

dhmac
04-29-12, 11:06 AM
If you really really really need to talk about the books, there is that other thread.
And here is the link to that other thread:
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/600323-game-thrones-season-2-spoilers-thread-book-discussion-other-materials.html

Ephemeral_Life
04-29-12, 11:28 AM
If you really really really need to talk about the books, there is that other thread.

You mean it's not ok to talk about the major plot twist where Arya is raped by who, it turns out to be, is her long-lost Dothraki half-brother in spectral form?

People who spoil future events in this thread should be condemned to go through the Bolton school of torture .

NORML54601
04-29-12, 01:57 PM
I just got caught up on the season yesterday after not having enough time to watch. All I can say is wow, this show continues to impress. I love Tyrion, Bronn, Jorah, & The Hound. For some reason I seem to have a thing for bodyguards. :lol:

DJariya
04-29-12, 02:05 PM
Halfway through the season already? I wish they did 12 or 13 episodes as this is going too fast!

I read that Benioff and Weiss (the creators) said that 10 episodes per season is perfect for them and they feel that if HBO greenlit anymore than that, it would jeapordize the show's quality.

I know it takes alot of time to write this show and those 2 guys write/co-write pretty much every episode.

superdeluxe
04-29-12, 05:06 PM
Last season the pace really picked up during the middle eps can't wait!

superdeluxe
04-29-12, 05:08 PM
You mean it's not ok to talk about the major plot twist where Arya is raped by who, it turns out to be, is her long-lost Dothraki half-brother in spectral form?

People who spoil future events in this thread should be condemned to go through the Bolton school of torture .

That is a spoiler! ;)

sven
04-29-12, 06:21 PM
I read that Benioff and Weiss (the creators) said that 10 episodes per season is perfect for them and they feel that if HBO greenlit anymore than that, it would jeapordize the show's quality.



I don't buy it.

pinata242
04-29-12, 06:57 PM
I don't buy it.

<s>I've weighed these arguments carefully and I'm going to have to side with the people that make the show.</s>

Edit: Nevermind, this has nothing to do with the episode at hand which is what this thread should be about since it's, you know, titled that way.

Dr. DVD
04-29-12, 09:05 PM
This ep. didn't exactly have much happen after the first five minutes as much as set the stage for it to do so later. Great acting and character development overall, especially from Dinklage and the actor who plays Bronn. The way they play off each other is akin to Ari Gold and Lloyd in Entourage, except with more respect between them. ;) Loved the end shot of Arya slightly smiling with a "I've got a hitman. Cool!" look. I also think Emilia Clarke did a good job with the whole "Crap, he really is in love with me " scene with Jorah without saying anything. Where did they shoot the Fist of the First Men stuff? I know it was done on location, and its neat to know such a place really exists.

PopcornTreeCt
04-29-12, 09:07 PM
I love Arya. She's my favorite character.

starman9000
04-29-12, 09:16 PM
Really enjoyed this one. I realized I'm really falling in love with all the castings even if I had misgivings to start with. Brienne is fantastic.

Can't wait to see the grantland review after they were gushing about Renly last week.

Who was the actor that was helping Theon? Kicking myself for not being able to place him.

Edit...It's Finchy from the office!

sven
04-29-12, 09:16 PM
Where did they shoot the Fist of the First Men stuff? I know it was done on location, and its neat to know such a place really exists.

Iceland. It looked way more badass than I pictured it.




I realized I'm really falling in love with all the castings even if I had misgivings to start with. Brienne is fantastic.

It's Cat for me. I bitched and moaned when Michelle Fairly was cast but her performance has been so great. I was wrong and she just keeps proving it.

superdeluxe
04-29-12, 09:17 PM
Really enjoyed this one. I realized I'm really falling in love with all the castings even if I had misgivings to start with. Brienne is fantastic.

Can't wait to see the grantland review after they were gushing about Renly last week.

Who was the actor that was helping Theon? Kicking myself for not being able to place him.

Someone spoiled the guys about renly last week over twitter

Brian Gentz
04-29-12, 09:21 PM
They are making Margaery a more interesting character, really liked the scene with her and Littlefinger.

EEz28
04-29-12, 09:21 PM
As a non-book reader, my mouth was :jawdrop: during that opening.

starman9000
04-29-12, 09:34 PM
It's Cat for me. I bitched and moaned when Michelle Fairly was cast but her performance has been so great. I was wrong and she just keeps proving it.

Yeah, I didn't hate her or anything, but I've loved her. I wonder if Robert didn't die so soon if I would have grown to like Mark Addy :lol:.

pinata242
04-29-12, 10:04 PM
I really don't understand how each episode is better than the last.

Also, I believe this is the first episode since the premiere (and that barely counts because of Arya) that we actually got a scene in every notable location with every active character. Jaime has only been in one small scene in the opening episode and that speaks volumes about this show, the scale, and the commitment of the actors. Granted, Jaime is barely in book 2 so it's expected, but I'm glad they didn't shoehorn more exposition scenes with him.

My only complaint is that there wasn't a OMGWTF ending like I'm so used to. Episode 5 of season 1 had Jaime and Ned face off in King's Landing, Jory dead, and Ned with a serious leg injury that helped lead to his ultimate downfall.

MrX
04-29-12, 10:14 PM
I love the scenes at Harrenhal. The guy playing Jaqen H'ghar is fantastic.

foxdvd
04-29-12, 10:35 PM
Best episode so far this season. The acting is so good, especially Michelle Fairley.

anomynous
04-29-12, 11:05 PM
The assassination was pretty well done.

Astrofan
04-29-12, 11:52 PM
You mean it's not ok to talk about the major plot twist where Arya is raped by who, it turns out to be, is her long-lost Dothraki half-brother in spectral form?

This is an interesting thing about those who think they're too clever and can say things without giving something away. By saying what you did we are to presume that she doesn't get raped, even though the threat is present.

Astrofan
04-29-12, 11:55 PM
I don't buy it.

Then you're wrong. It is a wonderful show. The attention to detail is astounding.
The creation, and weaving, of the various threads is a marvel. You should be able to handle a 600 pages book in a 9 hour movie. And I too would worry about too much time, it would add hundreds of thousands of dollars to the budget.

creekdipper
04-30-12, 12:41 AM
This is an interesting thing about those who think they're too clever and can say things without giving something away. By saying what you did we are to presume that she doesn't get raped, even though the threat is present.

Not necessarily. It could be that Arya gets raped simultaneously by Tyrion & Bron while a watching Joffrey rapes Cersei as they both snort wildfire. Or it could be that Hodor is raped by Brienne. Or it could be that Stannis, Craster, Yora, Theon, and Mellisandre form a daisy chain and spontaneously combust. Or it could be that none of those things happen, or only part of them happen.

I get your point in that it's tempting to post absurd comments just to make fun of the spoiler-paranoid folk but one does have to be careful about not giving anything away. However, if someone had said "Renly gets stabbed dead by a smoke monster", a lot of people would have assumed that the poster was being silly and presumed that Renly would defeat Stannis, conquer King's Landing, assume the throne, and then have to fight Robb and Dany...all of which, as every viewer of Episode 5 knows, didn't happen.

Still, one does have to be careful, although I don't think the poster's comments indicate whether Arya will or won't be raped or even survive the season. If there is any constant in GOT, it's that anything can happen to anyone at any time. If Season One didn't make that evident to non-readers, then nothing the poster said would change that. When Bran went out the window at the end of the first episode, all bets were off. So Arya ain't out of the woods yet.

pinata242
04-30-12, 12:48 AM
But people who know making jokes or veiled references with a knowing wink to others who know what does or does not happen, no matter how seemingly absurd or possible because "anything can happen", is part if the problem. There's no point in winking posts in these weekly threads. It's just lording knowledge over others for no point other than self-satisfied smugness.

creekdipper
04-30-12, 12:54 AM
Then you're wrong. It is a wonderful show. The attention to detail is astounding.
The creation, and weaving, of the various threads is a marvel. You should be able to handle a 600 pages book in a 9 hour movie. And I too would worry about too much time, it would add hundreds of thousands of dollars to the budget.

I do agree with you there (especially about the scads of detail...the show is a feast for the eyes, and it's tempting to freeze-frame to take it all in). Each episode goes by too fast, but that's because there is so much going on all over Westeros with the large cast. You're right...ten episodes is enough to cover the books (especially when the background visuals account for many pages of descriptions of armor, food, and architecture), and that includes the added exposition that helps the non-readers understand the complicated plot.

And your point about the budget is well-taken, as are the comments about the strain of adapting more scenes would put on the writers (who are doing an outstanding job). I could watch five nights GOT each week, but having too many episodes would hurt the pacing and slow the action to a meandering crawl. The anticipated split of the third book into two seasons is because there is so much packed into Storm. On the other hand, the writers may very well decide to jettison scenes for Feast & Dance along with reshuffling scenes to make a more linear plot that will be more coherent to the non-readers. Right now the pacing is about perfect (although Season 2 was necessarily slow-starting to allow for the introduction of all of the new characters. From here on until the end of the season, we can expect major events just about every episode leading up to the big finish to Season 2.

creekdipper
04-30-12, 01:02 AM
But people who know making jokes or veiled references with a knowing wink to others who know what does or does not happen, no matter how seemingly absurd or possible because "anything can happen", is part if the problem. There's no point in winking posts in these weekly threads. It's just lording knowledge over others for no point other than self-satisfied smugness.

Isn't "self-satisfied smugness" kind of an oxymoron? What other kind of smugness is there (and what would be the point)? -wink-

It would be good if everybody just discussed what has already taken place and left the rest to other threads. It's a problem with adapted series...with other shows, one can speculate about what might happen, but too many fans already know what WILL happen.

The real dilemma is whether to read or not prior to viewing. I still can't decide whether it was a good thing to read the books first. I understand the characters & what is going on better, but I miss the delicious uncertainty & envy my wife for only having read Book One. I get to explain confusing points (or ones that are glossed over or omitted in the series), but I often wish I was waiting to find out what will happen as opposed to just waiting to see the events unfold.

musick
04-30-12, 01:33 AM
Halfway through the season already? ............ this is going too fast!

does seem to by flying by .... loving every moment of it

HN
04-30-12, 01:46 AM
Also, I believe this is the first episode since the premiere (and that barely counts because of Arya) that we actually got a scene in every notable location with every active character. Jaime has only been in one small scene in the opening episode and that speaks volumes about this show, the scale, and the commitment of the actors. Granted, Jaime is barely in book 2 so it's expected, but I'm glad they didn't shoehorn more exposition scenes with

I don't remember seeing Rob this week; just a lot of talk about him.
Can't believe we're already halfway through. It still feels like chess pieces being moved around.

superfro
04-30-12, 01:52 AM
If there is any constant in GOT, it's that anything can happen to anyone at any time.

"Anyone can be killed."

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QZzpxiOHSzM/T1U6Q3FVg2I/AAAAAAAAAVk/mWNncYtYNBg/s1600/58+Arya+on+Mortality.jpg

Fucking amazing scene with Arya's stare down on Tywin. This episode was all around amazing.

fumanstan
04-30-12, 01:58 AM
I'd think there would be a lot more smoke monsters out there assassinating a lot more important people.

andicus
04-30-12, 02:26 AM
Finchy! As soon as I heard the voice I knew it was him.

I actually wondered, earlier in the season, if he would end up on this show. I don't know why.

I loved the Arya and assassins plot line, although I'm still a bit surprised about Tywin not realizing who she is.

Renly's demise really caught me by surprise.

Josh-da-man
04-30-12, 04:04 AM
I'd think there would be a lot more smoke monsters out there assassinating a lot more important people.

Yeah, I'm wondering about that, too.

If Stannis has a girlfriend who can squirt shadow assassins out of her vagina, I would think he could make short work of his enemies.

Unless there's some kind of catch, this brings in an element that seems like it could end the conflict quickly. Send the assassin (or other assassins if they're good for a single use only) after Joffrey, Tommen, and Cersei; and Stannis is automatically on the Iron Throne.

Thrush
04-30-12, 04:57 AM
So was the prisoner that Arya freed a soldier for the Lannisters before he was captured?

dex14
04-30-12, 05:25 AM
Do the Whitewalkers ever come into play again? I've been wondering this for a while. We see one in the first episode..and nothing again. Them being mentioned last night made me think of it.

MrX
04-30-12, 05:43 AM
So was the prisoner that Arya freed a soldier for the Lannisters before he was captured?

No

Do the Whitewalkers ever come into play again? I've been wondering this for a while. We see one in the first episode..and nothing again. Them being mentioned last night made me think of it.

Yes

majorjoe23
04-30-12, 07:14 AM
But people who know making jokes or veiled references with a knowing wink to others who know what does or does not happen, no matter how seemingly absurd or possible because "anything can happen", is part if the problem. There's no point in winking posts in these weekly threads. It's just lording knowledge over others for no point other than self-satisfied smugness.

So I shouldn't make a joke about Arya NOT getting abducted by aliens this season?

Ephemeral_Life
04-30-12, 07:39 AM
This is an interesting thing about those who think they're too clever and can say things without giving something away. By saying what you did we are to presume that she doesn't get raped, even though the threat is present.

The entire statement was made up out of thin air to be ridiculous, just as people who spoil future content are ridiculous by deriving satisfaction from depriving others of enjoyment of the plot. I know nothing about the fate of Arya, but I am pretty sure it won't involve a Dothraki brother in ghost form.

Ephemeral_Life
04-30-12, 07:41 AM
But people who know making jokes or veiled references with a knowing wink to others who know what does or does not happen, no matter how seemingly absurd or possible because "anything can happen", is part if the problem. There's no point in winking posts in these weekly threads. It's just lording knowledge over others for no point other than self-satisfied smugness.

We're on the same side, pinata. My post was an expression of frustration over the previous weeks' thread.

Ephemeral_Life
04-30-12, 07:44 AM
Do the Whitewalkers ever come into play again? I've been wondering this for a while.

We've seen one this season outside of Craster's Keep.

pinata242
04-30-12, 07:46 AM
Fucking amazing scene with Arya's stare down on Tywin. This episode was all around amazing.

I loved that whole scene. While I don't think Tywin expects that Arya is Arya, it was great that he has further deduced that she's from the North. Great callback to Maester Luwin droning on and on about houses and sigils in season one causing her to get caught in her little coverup.

I would think that, by now, she's had to give her employer a name. I wonder if she stuck with Arry from the road which is too close to Arya for comfort or went with something else. Maybe it's just not important when "girl" works just as well as any name.

csant
04-30-12, 07:49 AM
I love this series and I hate having to wait a whole week for the next episode. 9pm at my house is a sacred time... lol

csant
04-30-12, 07:51 AM
So was the prisoner that Arya freed a soldier for the Lannisters before he was captured?

No, he was given a choice to fight for the Lannisters or die... remember he told Arya "we didn't have any choice".

pinata242
04-30-12, 07:54 AM
No, he was given a choice to fight for the Lannisters or die... remember he told Arya "we didn't have any choice".

Splitting hairs here, but Arya said she didn't have a choice, but Jaqen said she did have a choice, as did he.

areacode212
04-30-12, 08:34 AM
Really good episode, especially the way it looked: great shots, great lighting--I loved all those shots of Tyrion's face with the light & shadows, and the set design in Cersei's quarters.


Even though I knew it was coming, it was still sad to see Renly go: he was my favorite of the five kings, and he was a fun character.


The casting has been phenomenal (although I really can't stand TV Yara, both the actress and the character). Brienne is one of my favorites, and Gwendoline Christie is spot-on. Excited to see more of her. Michelle Fairley as Cat was awesome both here and in last episode with Littlefinger.


Doreah is hot, and I kinda want a baby dragon.


They really manage to pack in a lot of story without making it feel rushed.


Does anyone know if the original pilot (with Jennifer Ehle as Catelyn) has been leaked anywhere?

Astrofan
04-30-12, 08:38 AM
Yes
Buzzzz, book knowledge without spoiler alert. Thanks for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts for you.

Astrofan
04-30-12, 08:40 AM
The entire statement was made up out of thin air to be ridiculous, just as people who spoil future content are ridiculous by deriving satisfaction from depriving others of enjoyment of the plot. I know nothing about the fate of Arya, but I am pretty sure it won't involve a Dothraki brother in ghost form.

But could she not be raped and the poster added the Dothraki part to be "clever" by making it all seem absurd?

pinata242
04-30-12, 08:41 AM
Can we stick to just discussing the actual episode at hand?

Astrofan
04-30-12, 08:43 AM
Isn't "self-satisfied smugness" kind of an oxymoron? What other kind of smugness is there (and what would be the point)?

Actually no. It might be considered redundant however.

wishbone
04-30-12, 08:45 AM
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/2423/jasonmamao.jpg

Astrofan
04-30-12, 08:46 AM
Can we stick to just discussing the actual episode at hand?

I'm for it because I'm swooning at how great this series is. But there does need to be smackdowns for those that can't put themselves in the mind of a pure series-watcher.

DeputyDave
04-30-12, 09:34 AM
As much as 10 hours of HD will eat up my DVR hard drive I'm keeping the season there. I watch each episode at 9:00 PM on the dot (the only show I watch "live"). My plan is after the season finale I will rewatch season one on Blu and then replay season 2 in its entirety. I really enjoyed season one while it was on but absolutely fell in love with it when I could watch them back to back. I presume season 2 will be the same.

superdeluxe
04-30-12, 09:48 AM
"Anyone can be killed."

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QZzpxiOHSzM/T1U6Q3FVg2I/AAAAAAAAAVk/mWNncYtYNBg/s1600/58+Arya+on+Mortality.jpg

Fucking amazing scene with Arya's stare down on Tywin. This episode was all around amazing.


That scene was one of the best scenes I've seen in TV in a long time, with no words.

WOW. Just the gaze she conveys SO much. Great acting.

Nausicaa
04-30-12, 10:09 AM
Really enjoying the season.

I really like the relationship between Dany and her 'advisor'. I hope they continue to stick together. I couldn't tell what Dany was thinking towards the end. Will she follow his advice? I know a lot of people don't like this story but it is one of my favorites. Mostly because Dany is so vulnerable right now, but her potential for power so great.

I was shocked to see Renly gone so quick. I had a book reader spoil the purpose of the shadow monster for me, but I didn't think it would happen the next day. So it looks like Renly's army will retreat now? Potentially join forces with the Starks?

Also loved Arya with Lannister. "No, anyone can be killed" with an unflinching stare. Also loved her smile when her new friend kills the Tickler.

Astrofan
04-30-12, 10:12 AM
That scene was one of the best scenes I've seen in TV in a long time, with no words.

WOW. Just the gaze she conveys SO much. Great acting.
I couldn't believe how big her pupils were. If it was deliberate they would have had to shot it with very low light.

Now what would you do if you had only two more death wishes and you had a laundry list of deserving souls?

pinata242
04-30-12, 10:13 AM
So it looks like Renly's army will retreat now? Potentially join forces with the Starks?

Renly's army has already joined with Stannis, except for the Tyrells (Margaery and Loras and their men).

Dr. DVD
04-30-12, 10:14 AM
Don't remember reading it, but was the scene with Arya and Tywin in the second book? It seemed kind of new. I also don't think there was any "cenobite" looking woman speaking with Ser Jorah. Also loved the expression on Tyrion's face when he walked into the room full of fire bowls; very akin to someone walking into a room full of nuclear warheads.

One cool thing about reading the books is that it gives these seasons a LOT of re-watchability. I'm on the third book and still catching lots important stuff when I re-watch eps. from the first season. More is occurring this season. Nothing happens for no reason, and no character is throw-away. That much I will say without spoiling. :)

boogieman03
04-30-12, 10:15 AM
So Theon's plan is to attack the fishing village, then when the 300 men Bran sent from Westerfell get to the village to take it back, go and attack Westerfell?

pinata242
04-30-12, 10:20 AM
Well, his dad sent him to harry the Stony Shore (fishing villages), but Dagmer suggested they hit Torrhen's Square instead then when Winterfell sends its men to protect, they'll move on to Winterfell.

Yes, that's the implication from those scenes.

DeputyDave
04-30-12, 10:21 AM
So Theon's plan is to attack the fishing village, then when the 300 men Bran sent from Westerfell get to the village to take it back, go and attack Westerfell?

He didn't say that but I assume that is what the look and smile he gave meant, and the dream about the sea taking Winterfell.

foxdvd
04-30-12, 10:26 AM
That scene was one of the best scenes I've seen in TV in a long time, with no words.

WOW. Just the gaze she conveys SO much. Great acting.

and I love after he looks away from her he shoves his food away...

superdeluxe
04-30-12, 10:54 AM
And Let me just say, Margery plays the game well :D

superdeluxe
04-30-12, 10:54 AM
and I love after he looks away from her he shoves his food away...

That was a great moment as well.

aktick
04-30-12, 11:02 AM
Part of me hates the smoke monster killing Renly like that, just seems like a lazy or way too convenient plot device to incorrectly peg Cat/the Starks as traitors.

Of course Stannis knows they weren't behind it, but I can see him using it as leverage in some way to get what he wants from the Starks.

Osiris3657
04-30-12, 11:08 AM
I'd think there would be a lot more smoke monsters out there assassinating a lot more important people.

Yeah, I'm wondering about that, too.

If Stannis has a girlfriend who can squirt shadow assassins out of her vagina, I would think he could make short work of his enemies.

Unless there's some kind of catch, this brings in an element that seems like it could end the conflict quickly. Send the assassin (or other assassins if they're good for a single use only) after Joffrey, Tommen, and Cersei; and Stannis is automatically on the Iron Throne.

I wondered this myself, I hope it's addressed in later episodes. Josh, I thought you read the books? Is it talked about there?

pinata242
04-30-12, 11:10 AM
It sure looked like a simple and common bit of magic.

Dave99
04-30-12, 11:19 AM
I wondered this myself, I hope it's addressed in later episodes. Josh, I thought you read the books? Is it talked about there?

each time she does it, it takes life force away from stannis. She only does it twice, and tells him the 3rd time will kill him

Osiris3657
04-30-12, 11:49 AM
each time she does it, it takes life force away from stannis. She only does it twice, and tells him the 3rd time will kill him

Did I miss her saying that or is it from the books?

superdeluxe
04-30-12, 11:50 AM
Did I miss her saying that or is it from the books?

Its from the books, Anything she says on TV shouldn't be spoilered.

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3a4vpAf0j1qfwvado1_500.gif

Loved that scene by her!

pinata242
04-30-12, 11:59 AM
Its from the books, Anything she says shouldn't be spoilered.

Why shouldn't things she says in the books but not the show be spoilered? :hscratch:

Do you mean if she had said it in the show, he wouldn't have bothered to spoiler it?

superdeluxe
04-30-12, 12:00 PM
Why shouldn't things she says in the books but not the show be spoilered? :hscratch:

Do you mean if she had said it in the show, he wouldn't have bothered to spoiler it?

Yes that is what I meant, sorry I wasn't clearer. edit done

aktick
04-30-12, 12:02 PM
Its from the books, Anything she says on TV shouldn't be spoilered.

...

Loved that scene by her!

I'm confused...I thought they were talking about Melisandra or whatever her name is?

Dr Mabuse
04-30-12, 12:03 PM
Another fantastic episode.

I agree the scenes with Tywin and Arya are fantastic. That girl is terrific, and Charles Dance is just about always terrific in anything he does. The two of them together are great stuff.

Dr. DVD
04-30-12, 12:09 PM
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/2423/jasonmamao.jpg



What's the context of that photo? It's obviously from ComicCon, and I surmise from everyone else that Jason Mamoa said something outlandish and embarrassing, like the words in big letters. Having read other interviews with him from the Conan movie, it he seems to just blurt stuff out without thinking often.

wishbone
04-30-12, 12:16 PM
What's the context of that photo? It's obviously from ComicCon, and I surmise from everyone else that Jason Mamoa said something outlandish and embarrassing, like the words in big letters. Having read other interviews with him from the Conan movie, it he seems to just blurt stuff out without thinking often.3:53 p.m. "I've never been a part of anything remotely close to this," Momoa says, when asked to compare working on a Sci Fi Channel show to working on an HBO show. He loves that scifi and fantasy shows let you "rip someone's throat out and rape beautiful women."http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/the-fien-print/posts/comic-con-live-blog-hbos-game-of-thrones

Mordred
04-30-12, 12:38 PM
Don't remember reading it, but was the scene with Arya and Tywin in the second book? It seemed kind of new. I also don't think there was any "cenobite" looking woman speaking with Ser Jorah.Book Spoilers to follow:
Arya & Tywin:
Arya and Tywin do not interact at all in Harrenhal. She is never his cupbearer... just works in the kitchens, at least while he's there.
Mild spoilers about the strange woman:
That's Quaithe. She's one of the 13 and was in the books. I knew her face was covered but I couldn't remember how. I looked it up and in the books she wore a lacquered wooden mask.

CRM114
04-30-12, 01:43 PM
So who or what is the ghost of Harrenhal?

Harrenhal is the place Tywin and Arya are, right?

sven
04-30-12, 01:52 PM
Arya

Dave99
04-30-12, 01:53 PM
So who or what is the ghost of Harrenhal?

Harrenhal is the place Tywin and Arya are, right?

No ghost in particular that I recall, it was just a place that seemed to lead to doom & death for whoever was in charge of it. And yes, that's where arya & tywin are.

Burnt Thru
04-30-12, 02:09 PM
Arya is the ghost of harrenhal. Though in the way this episode was shot it would make just as much sense that Jaken Haggar (or however his name is spelt) would be the said ghost.

superdeluxe
04-30-12, 02:12 PM
I'm confused...I thought they were talking about Melisandra or whatever her name is?


They were. he was asking me whatever that was spoilered, if that was from the books or spoken by the character on the show.

Astrofan
04-30-12, 02:25 PM
So who or what is the ghost of Harrenhal?

Harrenhal is the place Tywin and Arya are, right?
Can it not be ghost as in the shell of Harrenhal?

Tommy Ceez
04-30-12, 02:28 PM
So who or what is the ghost of Harrenhal?

Harrenhal is the place Tywin and Arya are, right?

Harrenhal is rumored to be haunted, but Ja'qun Harquar and Arya are the ghosts, killing who they desire.

BTW, I'm under the assumption, because my detailed memory of the books is fuzzy after all these years, that Ja'qun did not HAVE to be a Lannister man, but CHOSE to become a Lannister so he can find Arya and they together can pay back the red god the debt of three lives they owe him.

KirstenS
04-30-12, 02:30 PM
FWIW, the phrase "The Ghost of Harrenhal" is taken directly from the book. Not really a spoiler, but tagged for the sensitive:

Arya calls herself the ghost once she sees she can kill with a whispered name

Astrofan
04-30-12, 02:32 PM
Harrenhal is rumored to be haunted, but Ja'qun Harquar and Arya are the ghosts, killing who they desire.
I have no idea where this comes from. For one thing the title of the episode was not, "The Ghosts of Harrenhal.

And if it's something from the books--well, here we go again.

pinata242
04-30-12, 02:33 PM
It's because they don't call themselves the ghost(s), it's the perception of the other people that it's haunted.

Shannon Nutt
04-30-12, 02:33 PM
"You, with your schemes and plots."

"Schemes and plots are the same thing." :lol:

Tommy Ceez
04-30-12, 02:48 PM
I have no idea where this comes from. For one thing the title of the episode was not, "The Ghosts of Harrenhal.

And if it's something from the books--well, here we go again.

No, I was saying that for a common solider, in a rumored haunted castle, suspicious murders would be the work of a ghost

Defiant1
04-30-12, 03:00 PM
"You, with your schemes and plots."

"Schemes and plots are the same thing." :lol:

Cersei was pretty drunk though, so I'll cut her some slack! I figure with all the stress she's under, she must be drinking wine like it's going out of style.

Dany's dragon cooking the meat with its own fire was very cute.

pinata242
04-30-12, 03:03 PM
"Dracarys" was great. I'm glad they're showing the dragons sparingly but not forgetting about them.

SiberianLlama
04-30-12, 03:25 PM
Were there any shots of Ghost when Jon and the Night's Watch were hiking to the Fist of the First Men? If he was there, I didn't spot him.

This episode was great on every level. The cinematography is just gorgeous.

I love everything about Tyrion, but his interactions with Bron and Lancel (Cersei's cousin and current lover), are just downright hilarious.

pinata242
04-30-12, 03:26 PM
Either Ghost's white fur was blending in rather well or he was just off hunting as he's wont to do.

RUSF18
04-30-12, 03:37 PM
I thought Ghost was off in the background at one point.

argh923
04-30-12, 03:37 PM
As a non-book reader, my mouth was :jawdrop: during that opening.

Agreed. I was literally like WTF?!?!? when Renly bit it...I kept waiting on him to wake up or something. I did NOT see that happening, I thought for sure that...

would defeat Stannis, conquer King's Landing, assume the throne, and then have to fight Robb and Dany...all of which, as every viewer of Episode 5 knows, didn't happen.

..was EXACTLY what would happen. So this threw me for a huge, HUGE loop.

I love the scenes at Harrenhal. The guy playing Jaqen H'ghar is fantastic.

Agreed. REALLY like this guy and his interaction with Arya so far. I'm thinking he's going to end up taking out Joffrey.

That scene was one of the best scenes I've seen in TV in a long time, with no words.

WOW. Just the gaze she conveys SO much. Great acting.

The girl that plays Arya is absolutely fantastic. She's definitely #2 for me in terms of favorite characters, with Tyrion Lannister being #1 and...

Really enjoying the season.

I really like the relationship between Dany and her 'advisor'. I hope they continue to stick together. I couldn't tell what Dany was thinking towards the end. Will she follow his advice? I know a lot of people don't like this story but it is one of my favorites. Mostly because Dany is so vulnerable right now, but her potential for power so great.

...Jorah Mormont being #3. I REALLY like Jorah.

I couldn't believe how big her pupils were. If it was deliberate they would have had to shot it with very low light.

Now what would you do if you had only two more death wishes and you had a laundry list of deserving souls?

Joffrey HAS to be on the hitlist. Maybe the Hound as well...but Joffrey is definitely on it.

superfro
04-30-12, 03:38 PM
Were there any shots of Ghost when Jon and the Night's Watch were hiking to the Fist of the First Men? If he was there, I didn't spot him.



Yes, and it was an awesome shot. It's when they were setting up camp at the top of the mountain and he was up on a ridge in the background. It was an awesome effect to make him look massive, but with how they used the perspective he didn't look fake or CGI at all.

pinata242
04-30-12, 03:41 PM
Yes, and it was an awesome shot. It's when they were setting up camp at the top of the mountain and he was up on a ridge in the background. It was an awesome effect to make him look massive, but with how they used the perspective he didn't look fake or CGI at all.

Nice, I missed this myself both times I watched it. I love my job to be able to drop everything just for this :)

For size:

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3223/screenshot20120430at340.png

SiberianLlama
04-30-12, 03:50 PM
Yes, and it was an awesome shot. It's when they were setting up camp at the top of the mountain and he was up on a ridge in the background. It was an awesome effect to make him look massive, but with how they used the perspective he didn't look fake or CGI at all.

Awesome! Thank you to you and pinata242 for pointing Ghost out.

superdeluxe
04-30-12, 03:51 PM
Nice, I missed this myself both times I watched it. I love my job to be able to drop everything just for this :)

For size:

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3223/screenshot20120430at340.png

Ghost taking a overwatch position over the camp. Love it.

Thrush
04-30-12, 03:55 PM
Didnt the Tulley's forces account for a substantial portion of Renly's army? Without them how many of Renly's men does Stannis now have?

musick
04-30-12, 04:00 PM
Nice, I missed this myself both times I watched it. I love my job to be able to drop everything just for this :)

For size:

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3223/screenshot20120430at340.png

very cool ... I missed that as well

pinata242
04-30-12, 04:02 PM
Didnt the Tulley's forces account for a substantial portion of Renly's army? Without them how many of Renly's men does Stannis now have?

No, the Tullys are with Robb Stark since they're Stark bannermen and Catelyn (Tully) Stark is mother to the King in the North.

You might be thinking of the Tyrells (Margaery and Loras). Stannis would still have a sizable portion of Renlys men. Many thousands, though not the full 100k Renly was boasting obviously.

superdeluxe
04-30-12, 04:04 PM
Didnt the Tulley's forces account for a substantial portion of Renly's army? Without them how many of Renly's men does Stannis now have?

I don't believe so, I believe they had some Tyrell men/Baratheon banner men, but I am sure someone can fill in the gaps.

The Tyrell men went home.

Thrush
04-30-12, 04:37 PM
Yeah I meant the Tyrells

flashburn
04-30-12, 04:46 PM
Can someone explain the whole "red god" and the three debts thing to me? Not sure if it just wasn't explained well, or if it was that guys accent, but that whole thing confused me.

musick
04-30-12, 04:51 PM
Can someone explain the whole "red god" and the three debts thing to me? Not sure if it just wasn't explained well, or if it was that guys accent, but that whole thing confused me.

Jaquen owed Arya 3 deaths for saving his life and those of his two fellow prisoners

Ephemeral_Life
04-30-12, 05:49 PM
The Red God is the same god who gave Melisandre the queefs.

pinata242
04-30-12, 05:57 PM
Jaqen is basically playing Final Destination but changing the targets to satisfy Death.

flashburn
04-30-12, 06:00 PM
Oh okay, I guess this was just part of the whole religions thing that is bound to get a bit confusing. Is it three deaths because Arya saved three of their lives?

Tommy Ceez
04-30-12, 06:11 PM
Yes

aktick
04-30-12, 06:18 PM
The Red God is the same god who gave Melisandre the queefs.

I thought that was the god of light or something?

Tommy Ceez
04-30-12, 07:19 PM
I'm not quite sure if they have name checked their gods, but she is the red priestess

Thrush
04-30-12, 07:35 PM
I thought they called her that because of her hair.

wishbone
04-30-12, 07:36 PM
Oh okay, I guess this was just part of the whole religions thing that is bound to get a bit confusing. Is it three deaths because Arya saved three of their lives?http://i46.tinypic.com/2ngemgj.jpg

"You stole three deaths from the Red God; we have to give them back."

Nausicaa
04-30-12, 08:01 PM
Renly's army has already joined with Stannis, except for the Tyrells (Margaery and Loras and their men).

Could you explain? I thought Renly had 100,000 troops. Did they all defect before he died? Obviously I missed something.

pinata242
04-30-12, 08:04 PM
Renly had a great host from The Stormlands (Baratheon and their bannermen) and The Reach (Tyrells and their bannermen).

Renly married Margaery Tyrell to strengthen their hold and army. Renly was assassinated and his (Baratheon) men joined his brother Stannis (Baratheon) since Renly wasn't there, Stannis is the most proper one to hold on to.

The Tyrells (Margaery, Renly's new widow and her brother Loras, the Knight of Flowers, Renly's lover) fled back to their home to avoid blame in Renly's death from Stannis.

pinata242
04-30-12, 08:07 PM
This really comes down to the concept of the "Seven Kingdoms" of Westeros. Maps with domains will help.

For instance: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Seven_Kingdoms (though be careful on this site because this is about the books, not the show and much of the non-reference material will contain spoilers). This link and it's direct stuff are safe since it's all about geography and families.

dhmac
04-30-12, 08:33 PM
For someone who talks a lot about honor being important, the way Stannis sneakily killed Renly had ZERO honor.

Tommy Ceez
04-30-12, 08:39 PM
Davos mentioned that to him on the boat.

dhmac
04-30-12, 09:13 PM
Davos mentioned that to him on the boat.
Davos was going on about the scary sorcery of Melisandre, but Stannis' unwillingness to talk about it at all does indicate that he know it goes against his personal "code" yet he'll still do anything to get the iron throne.

Dr. DVD
04-30-12, 09:35 PM
In terms of character traits, Ser Davos is more or less the replacement for Ned Stark.

dhmac
04-30-12, 09:46 PM
Also, what happened to Ned Stark's remains after Catelyn fled with Brienne?

pinata242
04-30-12, 10:18 PM
Presumably left there. In the books the bones made it to Cat in a different place and she sent them back to Winterfell.

Astrofan
04-30-12, 10:24 PM
For someone who talks a lot about honor being important, the way Stannis sneakily killed Renly had ZERO honor.

Do you think Stanis was directly involved in that? He just had sex with a hot redhead.

Groucho
04-30-12, 10:35 PM
Well, I'm daft. I've only just realized that Alfie Allen (Theon) is also this guy:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-RgOm_WJKpE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Guess, playing a bloke who is embarrassed by his overachieving sister isn't too much of a stretch. ;)

actionjackson29
04-30-12, 10:58 PM
Was the complaining guy with the night's watch Dolorous Edd? I think that's the first time we've seen him.

Groucho
04-30-12, 11:06 PM
Was the complaining guy with the night's watch Dolorous Edd? I think that's the first time we've seen him.That was Dolorous Edd, but it wasn't his first appearance. Looks a bit too much like Bronn.

pinata242
04-30-12, 11:09 PM
Guess, playing a bloke who is embarrassed by his overachieving sister isn't too much of a stretch. ;)

I doubt he finger-blasted Lily, though.

Groucho
04-30-12, 11:13 PM
I hope not. :eek:

NORML54601
05-01-12, 01:29 AM
Why did Arya pick the torturer to die? Presumably Gregor is still in Harrenhal, would he have been a more logical choice?

creekdipper
05-01-12, 03:36 AM
Why did Arya pick the torturer to die? Presumably Gregor is still in Harrenhal, would he have been a more logical choice?

For me, the producers' handling of The Tickler was very disappointing. When they announced the casting of the part, I assumed that he would be given the vivid role that he had in the books. I had envisioned more of a Donald Pleasance sort of sociopath whose demeanor made it obvious how much he enjoyed his "work". Instead, we got a bored man eating a pear. Maybe it was the producers' way of showing how mundane the work of torturing people was to Ser Gregor's men, but I still found it disappointing.

An even bigger letdown was his demise. Without giving anything away from the books, I'll just say that his time in the books carried much more impact (the dread he inspired gave him a status that was almost mythological in a notorious way) & that he did reappear later in the book series in one of the most satisfying & dramatic scenes written by GRRM thus far. In fact, it was nearly a perfect scene & one that highly influenced other major characters & revealed quite a bit about their personalities and relationships. Hopefully, they'll manage to retain the impact of the scene by replacing The Tickler with a similar character, but it's still disappointing & a missed opportunity IMHO, although I trust the creators of the series to make up for it and not dilute that much-anticipated scene.

Also, even though we don't know (yet) whom Arya will choose next, I really liked the choices she made in the book along with her reasons. Her choices not only displayed her sense of justice but also her impulsiveness & immaturity... harking back to her indignant retorts in Season One whenever someone mistook her for a boy (or a peasant). The books made it apparent that, for all of her exposure to the violence & cruelty of the adult world, she is still very much an adolescent and behaves as such (her favorite word in the books seemed to be "stupid"). It's nice to see strong-willed Arya filled with a cold-blooded desire for vengeance, but it would also be nice to see some more of the naivety she displayed in Season One. That's what makes her such a great character, and I hope they don't try to transform her into Lady Vengeance and forget that she's still a young girl who often behaves that way.

creekdipper
05-01-12, 03:41 AM
Really like the handling of Brienne so far. The mutual oath-swearing between her & Cat was extremely moving.

The books made it very clear that Brienne was in love with Renly. I wasn't sure if that was made apparent before Renly's death scene, but my wife assured me that it came through (she hasn't read beyond Book One).

Very nice handling of Brienne's battle skills in the tent as she cut down the guards with ease.

Hiro11
05-01-12, 06:10 AM
Three comments on this episode:
1. Dany looked ridiculously good in that blue dress.
2. Deciding to bite the bullet and pay to ship production to Iceland = :thumbsup:. Those backdrops looked absolutely incredible, you can't fake that with CGI.
3. Maisie Williams just out-acted Charles Dance. This is her first role.

Tommy Ceez
05-01-12, 07:09 AM
As far as Arya's choice...yeah Gregor is around, but she's not in the lofty heights of some castle planning major battles. She's on the ground, and is our eyes into the effect this war is having on common people.

And also, she was testing to see if JH can really do what he says, or is full of shit.

And I actually liked their depiction of how mundane and useless torture is. Torture has been made way to cool and interesting on TV and movies. GOT gave us a more realistic depiction of torturers.

KirstenS
05-01-12, 07:53 AM
Why did Arya pick the torturer to die? Presumably Gregor is still in Harrenhal, would he have been a more logical choice?

Don't forget that Arya is just a child and isn't always swayed by logic.

CRM114
05-01-12, 08:14 AM
Davos was going on about the scary sorcery of Melisandre, but Stannis' unwillingness to talk about it at all does indicate that he know it goes against his personal "code" yet he'll still do anything to get the iron throne.

Didn't Stannis say he was NOT going to bring the red woman to Kings Landing?

wishbone
05-01-12, 08:22 AM
Don't forget that Arya is just a child and isn't always swayed by logic.And she was not sure if she could trust Jaqen H'ghar at that point.

wishbone
05-01-12, 08:27 AM
Who was the actor that was helping Theon? Kicking myself for not being able to place him.

Edit...It's Finchy from the office!

Finchy! As soon as I heard the voice I knew it was him.

I actually wondered, earlier in the season, if he would end up on this show. I don't know why.http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/9223/gameofthroneschrisfinch.jpg

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/59UlFs3QO84" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Astrofan
05-01-12, 08:31 AM
For me, the producers' handling of The Tickler was very disappointing. When they announced the casting of the part, I assumed that he would be given the vivid role that he had in the books. I had envisioned more of a Donald Pleasance sort of sociopath whose demeanor made it obvious how much he enjoyed his "work". Instead, we got a bored man eating a pear. Maybe it was the producers' way of showing how mundane the work of torturing people was to Ser Gregor's men, but I still found it disappointing.

An even bigger letdown was his demise. Without giving anything away from the books, I'll just say that his time in the books carried much more impact (the dread he inspired gave him a status that was almost mythological in a notorious way) & that he did reappear later in the book series in one of the most satisfying & dramatic scenes written by GRRM thus far. In fact, it was nearly a perfect scene & one that highly influenced other major characters & revealed quite a bit about their personalities and relationships. Hopefully, they'll manage to retain the impact of the scene by replacing The Tickler with a similar character, but it's still disappointing & a missed opportunity IMHO, although I trust the creators of the series to make up for it and not dilute that much-anticipated scene.

Also, even though we don't know (yet) whom Arya will choose next, I really liked the choices she made in the book along with her reasons. Her choices not only displayed her sense of justice but also her impulsiveness & immaturity... harking back to her indignant retorts in Season One whenever someone mistook her for a boy (or a peasant). The books made it apparent that, for all of her exposure to the violence & cruelty of the adult world, she is still very much an adolescent and behaves as such (her favorite word in the books seemed to be "stupid"). It's nice to see strong-willed Arya filled with a cold-blooded desire for vengeance, but it would also be nice to see some more of the naivety she displayed in Season One. That's what makes her such a great character, and I hope they don't try to transform her into Lady Vengeance and forget that she's still a young girl who often behaves that way.

Excellent discussion of the book vs. the series, but is this the book vs. the series thread? You even managed to get a book spoiler in there.

MikahC
05-01-12, 08:32 AM
Really like the handling of Brienne so far. The mutual oath-swearing between her & Cat was extremely moving.

The books made it very clear that Brienne was in love with Renly. I wasn't sure if that was made apparent before Renly's death scene, but my wife assured me that it came through (she hasn't read beyond Book One).


I really like leaders who consider leadership is a 2-way responsibility. There are people who don't feel that way who are successful, but I still say it makes for the best leaders. I'll take a Cat over a Joffrey (or even Robert) any day.

It wasn't clear to me that Brienne was romantically in love with Renly. I figured she "loved" him in the way a soldier loves a good general.

Three comments on this episode:
1. Dany looked ridiculously good in that blue dress.


:thumbsup: I'm never going to be in the, "I hate Dany," club.

Didn't Stannis say he was NOT going to bring the red woman to Kings Landing?

Yes, but as a viewer who hasn't read the books, I have no idea whether he'll live up to that or not. I half expected him to eventually kill Davos for vehemently questioning him. His statement could just as easily have been to momentarily shut Davos up.

pinata242
05-01-12, 08:57 AM
Excellent discussion of the book vs. the series, but is this the book vs. the series thread? You even managed to get a book spoiler in there.

Yes, that post is better suited for the book/show comparison/discussion thread, but I don't see a book spoiler and I've looked. But that doesn't mean that people who haven't read the books or know the events creekdipper is referencing should have to read them.

CRM114
05-01-12, 09:01 AM
Talking about Arya's future in the book has no relevance in this thread.

I suppose I'm alone in seeing Arya as a "meh" character and the girl playing her nothing special.

pinata242
05-01-12, 09:03 AM
Ah, yes. Ok. Arya isn't dead yet, so she does have a future in the show.

wishbone
05-01-12, 09:14 AM
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/1410/aryam.jpg

CRM114
05-01-12, 09:24 AM
Ah, yes. Ok. Arya isn't dead yet, so she does have a future in the show.

Insinuating how her choices will be made ...

superfro
05-01-12, 09:25 AM
I suppose I'm alone in seeing Arya as a "meh" character and the girl playing her nothing special.

My guess would be yes. I feel she was great in the first season, but that stare down on Tywin was epic. And only made more awesome on the pulled out shot that showed her turning her body to walk away without turning her head and still keeping eye contact for a second longer.

musick
05-01-12, 09:27 AM
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/1410/aryam.jpg

stick his post with the pointy end

johnnysd
05-01-12, 09:33 AM
For someone who talks a lot about honor being important, the way Stannis sneakily killed Renly had ZERO honor.

I always find the "honor" argument silly. So what you are saying is that it is more honorable to fight a protracted battle with his army and his brother's armies killing hundreds of people likely on both sides, than it is to just kill the one person that actually matters?

That is just silly. In my view what Stannis did is more honorable.

johnnysd
05-01-12, 09:41 AM
Talking about Arya's future in the book has no relevance in this thread.

I suppose I'm alone in seeing Arya as a "meh" character and the girl playing her nothing special.

I think that you would be in an exceedingly small group yes. She is maybe the most consistently popular character in the books, and WAY up there in the series as well. Plus, she is exactly the way she is described in the books, and is a terrific actress. The scene with Tywin was one of the best acted (on both sides) and compelling scenes I have seen in a really long time.

She is my favorite book character by far (in fact, I would like Game of Thrones just as much if she were the only point of view). And she is also by far my favorite character on the show. I think she is perfect and very very special.

Astrofan
05-01-12, 09:56 AM
Yes, that post is better suited for the book/show comparison/discussion thread, but I don't see a book spoiler and I've looked. But that doesn't mean that people who haven't read the books or know the events creekdipper is referencing should have to read them.

Tickler comes back for a major scene. At least now I won't be surprised when he shows up unexpectantly.

pinata242
05-01-12, 09:56 AM
Tickler comes back for a major scene. At least now I won't be surprised when he shows up unexpectantly.

:lol: I think you fundamentally misunderstood creekdipper's critique.

Unless you're talking about the books, then, yeah. Lots of people show back up in time. It's a very looooooooong series of books.

Astrofan
05-01-12, 09:57 AM
I suppose I'm alone in seeing Arya as a "meh" character and the girl playing her nothing special.

Yes.

JohnSlider
05-01-12, 09:58 AM
Arya has become my favorite part of the entire series thus far. Tyrion is a close second though.

Astrofan
05-01-12, 10:02 AM
I think that you would be in an exceedingly small group yes. She is maybe the most consistently popular character in the books.

Books, as in she will continue past the "book" we're on in the series? Thanks for that, that way I wouldn't have to worry about her character, we know Martin kills off main characters at the drop of a hat. -rolleyes-

pinata242
05-01-12, 10:04 AM
Books, as in she will continue past the "book" we're on in the series? Thanks for that, that way I wouldn't have to worry about her character, we know Martin kills off main characters at the drop of a hat. -rolleyes-

Ok, even I find this ridiculous and that's saying something.

We're on book 2 and she was on last season so that is "books".

JohnSlider
05-01-12, 10:20 AM
Astrofan takes it to a whole new level. :lol:

Ropes Pierre
05-01-12, 10:26 AM
Splitting hairs here, but Arya said she didn't have a choice, but Jaqen said she did have a choice, as did he.

i took that to mean he could have stayed on the run not knowing where his next meal was coming from, been on the run and fending for himself well, or signing on to fight for the Lannisters. I also took some meaning to his wearing armor, and not just being put in with conscripts and cannon fodder, like the fisherman who lost his leg last episode.

pinata242
05-01-12, 10:28 AM
i took that to mean he could have stayed on the run not knowing where his next meal was coming from, been on the run and fending for himself well, or signing on to fight for the Lannisters. I also took some meaning to his wearing armor, and not just being put in with conscripts and cannon fodder, like the fisherman who lost his leg last episode.

Essentially, yes. I was just clarifying that he said he had a choice. Arya was the one that said she didn't have a choice.

Ropes Pierre
05-01-12, 10:53 AM
Unless you're talking about the books, then, yeah. Lots of people show back up in time. It's a very looooooooong series of books.

wait, there are more books? could you spoiler that please. Some people may not be aware the series title is not "Game of Throne".

andicus
05-01-12, 10:53 AM
I always find the "honor" argument silly. So what you are saying is that it is more honorable to fight a protracted battle with his army and his brother's armies killing hundreds of people likely on both sides, than it is to just kill the one person that actually matters?

That is just silly. In my view what Stannis did is more honorable.

Didn't Bronn teach us about fighting with honour?

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110615180142/gameofthrones/images/thumb/1/18/Bronn_defeats_Vardis.jpg/830px-Bronn_defeats_Vardis.jpg

Decker
05-01-12, 11:10 AM
I'm almost scared to read this thread for fear of book spoilers, but I wanted to ask : How is it that a minstrel gets his tongue removed for singing a song that makes fun of King Joffrey, yet speakers can stand in the town square and denounce him to a crowd without any repercussions? It seems inconsistent, unless Joffrey just stopped caring what people said.

wishbone
05-01-12, 11:14 AM
Time has passed since Robert's death, war is afoot, and Joffrey's grip on King's Landing is not as tight as it once was.

DeputyDave
05-01-12, 11:16 AM
I'm almost scared to read this thread for fear of book spoilers, but I wanted to ask : How is it that a minstrel gets his tongue removed for singing a song that makes fun of King Joffrey, yet speakers can stand in the town square and denounce him to a crowd without any repercussions? It seems inconsistent, unless Joffrey just stopped caring what people said.

I doubt he knows about them yet. I assume he will be doing some purging (and no, I haven't read the books... it just seems like his character).

pinata242
05-01-12, 11:29 AM
I'm almost scared to read this thread for fear of book spoilers, but I wanted to ask : How is it that a minstrel gets his tongue removed for singing a song that makes fun of King Joffrey, yet speakers can stand in the town square and denounce him to a crowd without any repercussions? It seems inconsistent, unless Joffrey just stopped caring what people said.

I think it's a matter of venue as well. Marillion was more likely making his song heard for more affluent people in a tavern or brothel whereas this "Flea Bottom" herald was preaching to people less likely to report him.

King's Landing has about half a million residents.

CRM114
05-01-12, 11:34 AM
Wow, Arya is a pretty insignificant character as far as I can tell at this point. There are so many more characters more compelling than her. IMHO of course. I know we aren't allowed to say anything negative in these threads but...

wishbone
05-01-12, 11:37 AM
Arya has ten chapters in A Clash of Kings -- second only to Tyrion with fifteen chapters.

Pretty insignificant... rotfl

aktick
05-01-12, 11:40 AM
Wow, Arya is a pretty insignificant character as far as I can tell at this point. There are so many more characters more compelling than her. IMHO of course. I know we aren't allowed to say anything negative in these threads but...

I agree she's not real important at this point, but the writing is clearly on the wall that she's going to play a big part going forward, and I think that's the main reason she's so intriguing - we get to see her character grow up and become important on screen (as opposed to the older characters, whose roles were generally set in place when the series started)...of course most of us probably figured Ned and Renly would play important roles going forward as well...

pinata242
05-01-12, 11:40 AM
To be fair, most things (to this point) have happened to Arya rather than as a result of her actions.

She's strong, defiant, smart, and a survivor. If you haven't seen those qualities by now and how they may get you excited about what a character could be, then there's little hope...

CRM114
05-01-12, 11:44 AM
Arya has ten chapters in A Clash of Kings -- second only to Tyrion with fifteen chapters.

Pretty insignificant... rotfl

I thought this was about Season 1 and partially Season 2 of the TV show? :hscratch:

But thanks for the heads up to the novels!

CRM114
05-01-12, 11:45 AM
To be fair, most things (to this point) have happened to Arya rather than as a result of her actions.

She's strong, defiant, smart, and a survivor. If you haven't seen those qualities by now and how they may get you excited about what a character could be, then there's little hope...

Obviously. I'm just commenting on the statements that she's the best or second best character in the series. I find her character interesting but not compelling and I don't really see the brilliant acting either.

Once again, book readers muddying the waters, I suppose.

Astrofan
05-01-12, 11:46 AM
Arya has ten chapters in A Clash of Kings -- second only to Tyrion with fifteen chapters.

Pretty insignificant... rotfl
So I guess "books" meant three or more, not just two as I was being mocked (by others) for.

superfro
05-01-12, 11:49 AM
So I guess "books" meant three or more, not just two as I was being mocked (by others) for.

Her tenth chapter could be her last. ;)

aktick
05-01-12, 12:02 PM
So I guess "books" meant three or more, not just two as I was being mocked (by others) for.

http://www.needstolaugh.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/oh-no...-not-this-shit-again.jpg

musick
05-01-12, 12:08 PM
I know we aren't allowed to say anything negative in these threads but...

who said that
you are entitled to your opinion
you are however in the minority with your opinion

superdeluxe
05-01-12, 12:25 PM
I suppose I'm alone in seeing Arya as a "meh" character and the girl playing her nothing special.

pretty much everyone is talking about how well Maisie Williams have done, from fans to book readers to critics.

So this might be the one instance where you are alone on a matter.

superdeluxe
05-01-12, 12:30 PM
So I guess "books" meant three or more, not just two as I was being mocked (by others) for.


:banana:

superdeluxe
05-01-12, 12:34 PM
Wow, Arya is a pretty insignificant character as far as I can tell at this point. There are so many more characters more compelling than her. IMHO of course. I know we aren't allowed to say anything negative in these threads but...

You said you were the only one that thought Arya is not a great character at this point, we agreed with that you are the only one, and now we are not allowing you to say anything negative?

aktick
05-01-12, 12:44 PM
You said you were the only one that thought Arya is not a great character at this point, we agreed with that you are the only one, and now we are not allowing you to say anything negative?

He likes to be offended.

argh923
05-01-12, 01:06 PM
Davos was going on about the scary sorcery of Melisandre, but Stannis' unwillingness to talk about it at all does indicate that he know it goes against his personal "code" yet he'll still do anything to get the iron throne.

Here's what I'm wondering....is he going to tell Melisandre that he's not taking her to King's Landing? Cause I'm thinking she's a.) not going to like that too much, and b.) is way way way way way more powerful than Stannis.

I need to read faster. Still 1/3 of the way through A Game of Thrones. OH NO I MENTIONED A BOOK IN THIS THREAD, GODS STRIKE ME DOWN

pinata242
05-01-12, 01:09 PM
Here's what I'm wondering....is he going to tell Melisandre that he's not taking her to King's Landing?

Here's the problem with asking questions like this. In any other show thread you'd be able to reasonably have discussions about possibilities. Or you can just ask rhetorically knowing no one can know yet.

But here book readers can hint at what happens because they know, at least in a general sense because some things are changed which should be apparent by now.

So if you're not a book reader and you ask a question like this, you really should specify whether you want to know or if you're just thinking out loud.

superdeluxe
05-01-12, 01:17 PM
Here's the problem with asking questions like this. In any other show thread you'd be able to reasonably have discussions about possibilities. Or you can just ask rhetorically knowing no one can know yet.

But here book readers can hint at what happens because they know, at least in a general sense because some things are changed which should be apparent by now.

So if you're not a book reader and you ask a question like this, you really should specify whether you want to know or if you're just thinking out loud.

Yeah I kind of spoiled something for the wife yesterday when we were talking about Gendry and Arya scene from the episode

Spoilerish, not a specific spoiler, just potential plot lines about who lives and dies

Wife asked if Gendry and Arya have get together, I said, not yet they haven't, but they might down the road, then she said she I spoiled her because A)Now she knows both of them are still alive and B)They won't be hooking up till the latest book.

I was like damn.

creekdipper
05-01-12, 01:18 PM
Won't discuss any further differences in events in the series that contradict later (unmentioned) events in the series even when trying to avoid spoilers. Will take those comments to the book/series thread (it's not purely a "book" thread since comparisons to the series are mentioned there).

However, one thing about the praised "Arya-Tywin stare-down" bothered me. Setting aside book differences, in the series Arya is trying to survive and has just managed to escape an excruciating, fearsome death at the hands of torturers. Is she really going to risk offending the head Lannister (who has just mentioned that he is only sparing the head of a retainer because the offending party is related to him)? And, re: the admiration for the way the writers had Tywin push the plate away after Arya's comment about "anyone can die", does anyone think that Tywin Lannister would for a second brook any threat, no matter how veiled it might be? Even just the series gives the impression that Tywin would pull a Bolton and flay the hide off anyone who dared to suggest any sort of threat against his person (or anyone in his family, for that matter...even the despised Tyrion). It plays well onscreen, but it's not true to the ruthless character of Tywin. And even impetuous Arya would not be so rash as to threaten him to his face. She's seen how little human life holds for these people.

And I just thought of how I expected the scenes with The Tickler to be portrayed. I would rather have seen a calmly menacing figure that recalled the Nazi played by Sir Laurence Olivier in Marathon Man (the scene that caused a drop in dental visits), right down to the repeated questions (substituting "Is there gold in the village" for "Is it safe"?). I also would have liked to have seen it played out more through the screams and sounds rather than the 'rat' scene. Hearing the agony but not knowing exactly what was being done to the victim would be enough to make the captives do what Hot Pie did when he realized how narrowly he escaped being chosen. And, to add to the horror, a shot of a child being led away to be 'interrogated' would have established the insane cruelty of the torturers. Just sayin'.

CRM114
05-01-12, 01:19 PM
pretty much everyone is talking about how well Maisie Williams have done, from fans to book readers to critics.

So this might be the one instance where you are alone on a matter.

Sure, for a child actress with a few lines here and there.

You said you were the only one that thought Arya is not a great character at this point, we agreed with that you are the only one, and now we are not allowing you to say anything negative?

It's not the first criticism I've made of the show. Each time it's met with fan resistance. It's not unusual for this genre.

superfro
05-01-12, 01:25 PM
Sure, for a child actress with a few lines here and there.

So you agree as well then. ;)

musick
05-01-12, 01:45 PM
It's not the first criticism I've made of the show. Each time it's met with fan resistance. It's not unusual for this genre.

again, it meets with resistance because you are in the minority
it is not unusual for any genre
love the moniker (Kubrick reference) but not quite sure where you are going with this

Mordred
05-01-12, 01:48 PM
So I guess "books" meant three or more, not just two as I was being mocked (by others) for.I can't tell what you're implying here. A Clash of Kings is the second book in the series in case you thought he was referencing the 3rd book. If you think having a lot of chapters in this series means you'll live to the next book, you should ask Ned Stark and his 15 chapters how that worked out.

argh923
05-01-12, 02:08 PM
Here's the problem with asking questions like this. In any other show thread you'd be able to reasonably have discussions about possibilities. Or you can just ask rhetorically knowing no one can know yet.

But here book readers can hint at what happens because they know, at least in a general sense because some things are changed which should be apparent by now.

So if you're not a book reader and you ask a question like this, you really should specify whether you want to know or if you're just thinking out loud.

Fair point...I'll be more mindful of that going forward. It was definitely a rhetorical question in this instance.

barelypure
05-01-12, 03:01 PM
And I just thought of how I expected the scenes with The Tickler to be portrayed. I would rather have seen a calmly menacing figure that recalled the Nazi played by Sir Laurence Olivier in Marathon Man (the scene that caused a drop in dental visits), right down to the repeated questions (substituting "Is there gold in the village" for "Is it safe"?). I also would have liked to have seen it played out more through the screams and sounds rather than the 'rat' scene. Hearing the agony but not knowing exactly what was being done to the victim would be enough to make the captives do what Hot Pie did when he realized how narrowly he escaped being chosen. And, to add to the horror, a shot of a child being led away to be 'interrogated' would have established the insane cruelty of the torturers. Just sayin'.

Oh noes, you just spoiled Marathon Man by revealing what happens... ;)

MikahC
05-01-12, 04:22 PM
And even impetuous Arya would not be so rash as to threaten him to his face. She's seen how little human life holds for these people.

But that's the value of the scene. I won't say it's 100% pitch perfect, but it's just about as close as I've seen a scene like that played.

We know who Arya is and what she's feeling, but Tywin doesn't. To him she's just a scared little girl who dressed like a boy to escape savagery in the wild. If Tywin felt even the slightest threat from her, there's no way he would tell her to go get his water. He would not keep her as his cup bearer. And he very likely, as you said, would flat out kill her. But instead, from his point of view what we have is a little girl who is on her own who is basically asked and innocently and immaturely responds, "Anyone can be killed." Even if it's the wrong response, he doesn't think it's a threat or one that diminishes his status. But he does gaze at her to see if those elements are there in her response.

That brings us to the length of the held eyes. In that situation, there are two schools of thought. You look someone in the eye as a sign of respect, or you look away from someone as a sign of deferent respect (similar to kneeling and looking down). I think if you're bringing water, you avert your eyes in deferent respect. But if you're being directly addressed, you may hold eyes. If you don't, you may get, "Look at me when I'm talking to you!" So I don't think Arya looking at him while being addressed and queried is inherently wrong. It's made more wrong only because we know more about her than Tywin does. Otherwise it's just a little helpless girl sitting there waiting for her next command.

Like many others, Arya and Tyrion are my favorite characters.

pinata242
05-01-12, 04:31 PM
Another thing to remember is that females are worthless hostages. This world is very patriarchal, they value sons. If Tywin thought she was actually Arya Stark, or anyone of noble birth, holding her hostage to try to force Robb's hand would be pointless. Even Cat knows Robb would never even trade Jaime Lannister for "two girls", Robb's own sisters.

Arya may be held captive out of respect, but they may as well kill her or marry her off to some Lannister bannerman's son to further put the southron influence into the north.

starman9000
05-01-12, 04:39 PM
C'mon man. Worthless? Just because they couldn't trade her for Jaimie doesn't make her worthless.

The Bus
05-01-12, 04:41 PM
They are making Margaery a more interesting character, really liked the scene with her and Littlefinger.

This was a great development, especially since we know she's already a power-hungry schemer.

I love the scenes at Harrenhal. The guy playing Jaqen H'ghar is fantastic.

I love how his lines obviously make him a foreigner, and a noble one possibly.

<hr>

Here's a thought, everyone discussing the fucking books:

<b>Go to the Book Thread.</b>

Have you never read the books, and wonder what will happen, or are unclear on something not yet explained in the TV show?

<b>Go to the Book Thread.</b>

Have a long, spoilery paragraph about how a character's death was different in the book blah blah blah

<b>Go to the Book Thread.</b> <b>Go to the Book Thread.</b> <b>Go to the Book Thread!!!</b>: http://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/600323-game-thrones-season-2-spoilers-thread-book-discussion-other-materials.html
The discussion here is worthless otherwise.

Draven
05-01-12, 05:04 PM
Also, I think Tywin respects intelligence, with Arya obviously has. I think he asked her an honest question and expected an honest response. Juxtaposed with his frustration with his council.

argh923
05-01-12, 05:52 PM
I'm not going to go to the book thread if I'm asking about the difference between something, considering the rest of the book would be spoiled in that thread. That's just stupid. I'll put my question out, and the person responding to it can answer in a spoiler tag. No harm, no foul.

The book threads are for people who have read all of the books. Sometimes we who haven't seek a little clarification on things that readers of the books can provide. It's ridiculous to expect us to go there for answers.

All of this is absolute 100% common sense and yet every single week people complain about it. It's beyond me.

Bill Needle
05-01-12, 06:22 PM
Let me preface this by saying I understand this is the internet and moreso an internet forum, and opinions are not worth the data packets it costs to transmit them, but...

I typically steer pretty clear of these threads in general, especially since they are starting to approach "The Walking Dead" status. Not surprisingly it is a similar situation, with an avid fan base of the original material conversing with newcomers to the material through the popular show.

While I (never having picked up one of the books) would like to ask questions like "What the hell is a Harrenhal?" I don't. The material has great depth (one of the reasons I enjoy it) and because of that I don't know if my lack of knowledge is because I missed a seemingly throwaway line in an earlier episode or because it has intentionally been withheld to this point in the story due to some insane reveal coming next week. So I don't ask, thereby trying to prevent someone who has read the books from inadvertently (or not) spilling a little more than I would prefer.

So it would be nice if you have a question like "Does this guy/girl/dragon do something important?" please take those to the spoiler thread. You are literally asking for spoilers to be posted and there is a thread for that.

I love the series and would enjoy discussing it. But even an answer like "She barely appears in the third book" is a major spoiler for a series like this where no one is safe (again, another reason I enjoy it). So I tread pretty carefully in these episode threads and really appreciate those who use the spoilers to answer questions and especially with a non-spoilerized comment such as "Regarding Arya..." to help me decide whether to peek or not.

argh923
05-01-12, 06:38 PM
But again, if I take that question to the spoiler thread, I'm going to see all kinds of things that maybe I don't want to know. Maybe we who ask those questions should state, as I have before, "Please put in spoiler tags". That might help.

To address your concern, I would say to ask, "If it hasn't been explained yet, please don't spoil it for me".

By the way, Harrenhal is the city where Arya and Tywin are currently at. Not a spoiler, since it's in the opening credits for the past two episodes. ;)

starman9000
05-01-12, 06:40 PM
Maybe just PM someone you know is a book reader. I'd be happy to answer stuff.

Bill Needle
05-01-12, 06:46 PM
Maybe just PM someone you know is a book reader. I'd be happy to answer stuff.
Good idea. Thanks!

superdeluxe
05-01-12, 06:56 PM
We again need the mods to come in, make separate threads and guidelines and then enforce rules, maybe make a thread with poll options on the format. Thing is, we are half way through the season. Not sure if it's worth the hassle

Bill Needle
05-01-12, 06:59 PM
But again, if I take that question to the spoiler thread, I'm going to see all kinds of things that maybe I don't want to know. Maybe we who ask those questions should state, as I have before, "Please put in spoiler tags". That might help.
Good point. Tough to ignore all of the other spoilers while looking for a response to your question. starman9000 has a solution, though your question and the answer aren't shared with others who might have the same question or don't care about spoilers.

To address your concern, I would say to ask, "If it hasn't been explained yet, please don't spoil it for me".
I would think that is the standing rule for any question in the weekly episode threads.

By the way, Harrenhal is the city where Arya and Tywin are currently at. Not a spoiler, since it's in the opening credits for the past two episodes. ;)
:lol:

Mostly I responded to all this because it ocurred to me how awesome the impact of the Renly assassination was having had no idea it was coming. Yes, I knew the vag-monster was not created to deliver a candygram, but you get the point.

dhmac
05-01-12, 07:03 PM
Also, I think Tywin respects intelligence, with Arya obviously has. I think he asked her an honest question and expected an honest response. Juxtaposed with his frustration with his council.
Exactly what I thought. Despite the implications that the audience can read into that scene, in no way did Tywin feel remotely threatened by a young girl. If anything, he just reflected on what she said personally without once assuming that she was actually threatening him.

And Tywin definitely respects intelligence given that he made his imp son the Hand of the King. Few others would've promoted a dwarf to such a role, no matter how smart, yet Tywin seemed to know Tyrion was the best person he had available to him to appoint to that role in his own place.

argh923
05-01-12, 07:15 PM
Mostly I responded to all this because it ocurred to me how awesome the impact of the Renly assassination was having had no idea it was coming. Yes, I knew the vag-monster was not created to deliver a candygram, but you get the point.

Yeah, I figured maybe it'd lay waste to half of Renly's army or something like that...I had no idea it'd just *poof* and kill him like that. That blew me away. :)

Bill Needle
05-01-12, 07:21 PM
Yeah, I figured maybe it'd lay waste to half of Renly's army or something like that...I had no idea it'd just *poof* and kill him like that. That blew me away. :)
Not to mention right near the beginning of the episode. You kind of brace yourself 45 minutes in, but that was a real "Whoa!" moment. Not quite as big as the Ned Stark execution, but up there.

islandclaws
05-01-12, 07:52 PM
Man, aside from a few posters these threads FUCKING SUCK.

So much bitching. I didn't read the books... whatever. Don't even open the goddamn threads if you don't want to get spoiled.

I realize this will be a constant point of contention for some, but, really, if it's such an aggravation then just avoid the threads.

pinata242
05-01-12, 07:57 PM
Man, aside from a few posters these threads FUCKING SUCK.

So much bitching. I didn't read the books... whatever. Don't even open the goddamn threads if you don't want to get spoiled.

I realize this will be a constant point of contention for some, but, really, if it's such an aggravation then just avoid the threads.

Self-control. On the Internet? Sir, you are delusional.

If only there was a website linked several times that collected all the show information into some sort of wiki without spoiling from the books where cautious people could safely peruse. If only...

Josh-da-man
05-01-12, 08:41 PM
We know who Arya is and what she's feeling, but Tywin doesn't.

And, from Tywin's point of view, when she said "Anyone can be killed," as far as he knew she was talking about Robb Stark. Of course we, the audience, know that Arya Stark was making a threat toward Tywin and the other Lannisters, and the way she said it was enough to put Tywin on edge, but not perceive a threat from the girl.

dhmac
05-01-12, 08:48 PM
I always find the "honor" argument silly. So what you are saying is that it is more honorable to fight a protracted battle with his army and his brother's armies killing hundreds of people likely on both sides, than it is to just kill the one person that actually matters?

That is just silly. In my view what Stannis did is more honorable.
Really?! Ignoring the supernatural part, in what society in the history of time has sending an assassin to stab someone in the back ever been considered "honorable" ?

covenant
05-01-12, 09:25 PM
All this talk of Honor. That's Sansa talk!

Dr. DVD
05-01-12, 09:27 PM
Out of curiosity, was there an abundance of redheaded women in the dark ages (don't exactly know when this takes place in the grand scale of things)? Seems like all fantasy epics have them in abundance, and this is no exception. Can't find that many nowadays. :(

pinata242
05-01-12, 09:30 PM
Abundance of redheaded women? Sansa and Melisandre are all I can think of. I know nothing of any others.

fumanstan
05-01-12, 09:45 PM
Ros.

Astrofan
05-01-12, 10:07 PM
I can't tell what you're implying here. A Clash of Kings is the second book in the series in case you thought he was referencing the 3rd book. If you think having a lot of chapters in this series means you'll live to the next book, you should ask Ned Stark and his 15 chapters how that worked out.

Another stupid me moment.

superdeluxe
05-01-12, 10:24 PM
Self-control. On the Internet? Sir, you are delusional.

If only there was a website linked several times that collected all the show information into some sort of wiki without spoiling from the books where cautious people could safely peruse. If only...

I don't think people just want information they want to have dialogue about the show, the problem is when half of the posters are book readers you can't really join in the speculation

wishbone
05-01-12, 10:58 PM
I don't think people just want information they want to have dialogue about the show, the problem is when half of the posters are book readers you can't really join in the speculationhttp://i50.tinypic.com/1o24xh.jpg

The book readers know where the story is ultimately going but do not know how it will be presented each week -- that's what makes these discussions difficult.

We need to endeavor to keep the discussion to the current episode and enjoy this series as it continues to unfold. :)

superfro
05-02-12, 12:28 AM
Man, aside from a few posters these threads FUCKING SUCK.


if it's such an aggravation then just avoid the threads.

lol

musick
05-02-12, 01:13 AM
I also don't think there was any "cenobite" looking woman speaking with Ser Jorah.
thought it was funny after the appearance of that character my wife goes "that was weird" ..... for the first time in the entire series, as if there wasn't anything weird up until that point

all I kept thinking was ....
http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/7/20/4bc3375c8f678/detail.jpg

Harrenhal is rumored to be haunted, but Ja'qun Harquar and Arya are the ghosts, killing who they desire.

BTW, I'm under the assumption, because my detailed memory of the books is fuzzy after all these years, that Ja'qun did not HAVE to be a Lannister man, but CHOSE to become a Lannister so he can find Arya and they together can pay back the red god the debt of three lives they owe him.

the best part of it all is Tywin questioning Arya on the houses/sigil/words and the irony of Ja'qun now being a Lannister man and using the words of the Lannisters to the benefit of Arya

hahn
05-02-12, 01:51 AM
Well, I've come to learn that it's best to avoid this thread until a few days later after most of the bickering has subsided. Just dropping by to say this show just amazes me each week. I don't know how they do it, but it just keeps getting better.

I didn't quite understand some of the conversation going on up north of The Wall. What was going on before the rangers set off to attack the [lookout posts?]. Qhorin Halfhand saw some fire off in the distance? And that signifies that the wildlings had joined ["mance"?] who was training them. I thought he was saying "mancer" as in necromancer, but is it referring to a single character? Because the Night's watch ranger seemed to indicate it was only one person. So the plan was to attack the lookout post, but then retreat back to The Wall?

And when Jon Snow was looking out onto the horizon, who blew the horn that alarmed everyone? There was a group of people coming over the ridge in the distance. At first they said 1 blast was for rangers returning, 2 was for wildlings. Then that Bronn look-alike guy (what's his name) said something about someone was coming and 1 blast for friend, 2 for foes. And that's when Samwell chimes in with the 3 for whitewalkers. Can someone clear up what this scene was about and who those people coming were? They didn't seem to be so concerned about them after a few seconds.

musick
05-02-12, 02:18 AM
Well, I've come to learn that it's best to avoid this thread until a few days later after most of the bickering has subsided. Just dropping by to say this show just amazes me each week. I don't know how they do it, but it just keeps getting better.

I didn't quite understand some of the conversation going on up north of The Wall. What was going on before the rangers set off to attack the [lookout posts?]. Qhorin Halfhand saw some fire off in the distance? And that signifies that the wildlings had joined ["mance"?] who was training them. I thought he was saying "mancer" as in necromancer, but is it referring to a single character? Because the Night's watch ranger seemed to indicate it was only one person. So the plan was to attack the lookout post, but then retreat back to The Wall?


And when Jon Snow was looking out onto the horizon, who blew the horn that alarmed everyone? There was a group of people coming over the ridge in the distance. At first they said 1 blast was for rangers returning, 2 was for wildlings. Then that Bronn look-alike guy (what's his name) said something about someone was coming and 1 blast for friend, 2 for foes. And that's when Samwell chimes in with the 3 for whitewalkers. Can someone clear up what this scene was about and who those people coming were? They didn't seem to be so concerned about them after a few seconds.

I'll answer your second part first since it came before your first question
Qhorin (or his men) blew the horn and it was him (the Rangers returning) hence why they weren't concerned after a few seconds ... the concern was that a second or third horn sound could follow which would signify a much less friendly outcome.
Edd is that name of the guy that looks like Bronn ....now the third guy (Yoren) being the other who has been mentioned as looking like Bronn ... LOL

Mance Rayder is a former brother of the Nights Watch who fled the wall, took refuge with the Wildlings and became King beyond the Wall. He [Mance] has gathered up the Wildlings and the concern is that if the scouts see the Nights Watch they will warn Mance. The plan is for the Rangers (and Jon Snow) to sneak up on the lookout and take them out before they can give warning to Mance. They couldn't/didn't return to the Wall because that's where the gathering Wildlings are said to be headed.

aktick
05-02-12, 08:13 AM
Isn't the Wall pretty much impenetrable? It seems very solid with only one small tunnel...wouldn't it be pretty easy for a few Night's Watch to guard it against many more Wildlings?

And I forget if we've been told already - are the Wildlings supposedly "with" the Whitewalkers (or at least historically, were they)? Or is that possibly what they're fleeing from, their reason for heading south?

Groucho
05-02-12, 08:15 AM
And I forget if we've been told already - are the Wildlings supposedly "with" the Whitewalkers (or at least historically, were they)?In the season one premiere we see a Wildling camp that has been wiped out by the White Walkers.

Hiro11
05-02-12, 08:18 AM
A suggestion: since everyone has their panties in such a twist about spoilers in these threads, please stop asking questions about things that have not been explained (yet) in the show. Have some patience and some faith that the show knows where it's going. All your questions will be answered.

bunkaroo
05-02-12, 08:33 AM
The point is, asking those questions in a rhetorical or speculative manner is what drives many of the threads in TV talk where the stories aren't already available to read.

So basically it comes off like those who have read the books have a sense of entitlement to take over the threads simply because they've read the books. Not to mention for someone like me who's trying to get through the books, I have double the risk of being spoiled for the book and the show.

So I ask those who feel they should be able to discuss book spoilers freely in this thread point blank: why do you feel this show's discussion should be exception to typical spoiler rules for the forum?

pinata242
05-02-12, 08:34 AM
Because people who ask in a rhetorical or speculative manner know there are people that know the answer and ask anyway without specifying they're rhetorical or speculative.

aktick
05-02-12, 08:41 AM
In the season one premiere we see a Wildling camp that has been wiped out by the White Walkers.

Aaaah, thanks...couldn't remember exactly how that played out.

I think when any questions are asked, if it hasn't already been explained in the show, simply saying that is probably the best option. I'm making the assumption that nobody will spoil anything in this thread...that should all be in the other thread.

Though I know that's a shitty assumption to make, and why I still wish there was a weekly thread of people who haven't read the books. Sure, we often won't get our questions answered as quickly or in as much detail, but I'm fine with that. The only series threads I've followed this closely were the Lost ones, and the speculation is half of what made those so great...it's impossible to do that here because there will always be an asshole or two who "speculates" correctly, to make himself look smart, but in reality he's read the books.

wishbone
05-02-12, 08:42 AM
Isn't the Wall pretty much impenetrable? It seems very solid with only one small tunnel...wouldn't it be pretty easy for a few Night's Watch to guard it against many more Wildlings?The Night's Watch is a shadow of its former strength with only three manned castles left to guard The Wall and less Builders to maintain it.

CRM114
05-02-12, 08:43 AM
Man, aside from a few posters these threads FUCKING SUCK.

So much bitching. I didn't read the books... whatever. Don't even open the goddamn threads if you don't want to get spoiled.

I realize this will be a constant point of contention for some, but, really, if it's such an aggravation then just avoid the threads.

Right. I expect a certain amount of spoilage. It's not like anyone said "So does Renly die in the next episode or the one after that?"

pinata242
05-02-12, 08:47 AM
I'm sorry, what has been spoiled in this thread exactly? What are we bitching about other than just bitching?

aktick
05-02-12, 08:50 AM
I'm sorry, what has been spoiled in this thread exactly? What are we bitching about other than just bitching?

I haven't been spoiled at all, but it's like walking on eggshells every week in these things...for us non-book readers, and I'm assuming for those of you that have read the books, trying to be helpful without spoiling something.

CRM114
05-02-12, 08:55 AM
So is it Winterfell and then the wall going up or is it Winterfell and then the wall being a giant dropoff?

I imagined it being Winterfell and then a giant wall going up meaning the Wildlings would have to go down the wall to invade Winterfell. Is that correct? Or is it just a wall with drops on both sides?

CRM114
05-02-12, 08:55 AM
I'm sorry, what has been spoiled in this thread exactly? What are we bitching about other than just bitching?

Nothing as far as I know but I'm not the one going around jumping on everyone's shit. I believe some things were intimated at being spoilers earlier on in the thread. Whatever was said didn't bother me. But like I said, I expect a bit of it given the nature of book vs series stuff.

pinata242
05-02-12, 08:57 AM
So is it Winterfell and then the wall going up or is it Winterfell and then the wall being a giant dropoff?

I imagined it being Winterfell and then a giant wall going up meaning the Wildlings would have to go down the wall to invade Winterfell. Is that correct? Or is it just a wall with drops on both sides?

Rhetorical or speculative?

You've seen both sides of the wall.

CRM114
05-02-12, 08:58 AM
I've seen a wall and then I've seen a bunch of dudes north of the wall standing around in snow.

pinata242
05-02-12, 09:02 AM
I've seen a wall and then I've seen a bunch of dudes north of the wall standing around in snow.

Literally the first seconds of the series show you the north side of the wall.

Then the scenes on the south side of the wall also show it towering. Plus there's the hand-cranked elevator.

CKMorpheus
05-02-12, 09:02 AM
I can't wait to finish the second book and read the rest so I'll never have to avoid a spoiler button again.

wishbone
05-02-12, 09:03 AM
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2458/gameofthroneswall.jpg

North of The Wall

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1369/castleblack.jpg

Castle Black, south of The Wall

CRM114
05-02-12, 09:05 AM
Wow, in my mind, I had it totally reversed. So after "Castle Black" is a drop off?

CRM114
05-02-12, 09:06 AM
Literally the first seconds of the series show you the north side of the wall.


As in last year? :lol:

Astrofan
05-02-12, 09:07 AM
I'm sorry, what has been spoiled in this thread exactly? What are we bitching about other than just bitching?

Minor example:
Granted, Jaime is barely in book 2 so it's expected, but I'm glad they didn't shoehorn more exposition scenes with him.

Now let me see, who said that?

pinata242
05-02-12, 09:08 AM
Wow, in my mind, I had it totally reversed. So after "Castle Black" is a drop off?

No, are you blind?

As in last year? :lol:

Oh jesus...

Minor example:
Granted, Jaime is barely in book 2 so it's expected, but I'm glad they didn't shoehorn more exposition scenes with him.

Now let me see, who said that?

And after 5 out of 10 episodes you think he's a prominent figurehead so far?

CRM114
05-02-12, 09:10 AM
We have never seen an aerial shot of the wall. But don't fucking bother replying again.

focker
05-02-12, 09:12 AM
Wow, in my mind, I had it totally reversed. So after "Castle Black" is a drop off?

The castle (Castle Black) is at the base of the wall on the south side. There is an opening in the base of the wall to get out. To get to the top, there is an elevator of sorts. Winterfell is a good ways south of the wall.

wishbone
05-02-12, 09:12 AM
Wow, in my mind, I had it totally reversed. So after "Castle Black" is a drop off?No drop off other than being atop The Wall.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-MxfsYUoDzM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is one of the supplemental videos included on the blu-ray set.

pinata242
05-02-12, 09:14 AM
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2458/gameofthroneswall.jpg

North of The Wall

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1369/castleblack.jpg

Castle Black, south of The Wall

Good luck, wishbone. Maybe if you physically glued those pictures together it would be clear enough. But you'll just have to do it every week because who can be bothered to remember all the way back to previous episodes.

CRM114
05-02-12, 09:15 AM
The castle (Castle Black) is at the base of the wall on the south side. There is an opening in the base of the wall to get out. To get to the top, there is an elevator of sorts. Winterfell is a good ways south of the wall.

That's what I'm confused about. There is an elevator to get to the top of the wall. What is up there? A drop off (like a traditional wall) or is it flat at the top going northwards?

So I was right at least in my initial thought. Riding north from Winterfell, you would approach a mammoth wall at the base of which is Castle Black. At Castle Black you'd ride the elevator up to the top, walk off to a flat land north of the wall. In other words, you don't need to go up the wall and then down the other side.

So my first impression was right despite the attacking posts that followed. The Wildlings traveling south would have to either ride the elevator down or somehow repel DOWN the wall. They would not have to climb a wall.

Noonan
05-02-12, 09:16 AM
We have never seen an aerial shot of the wall. But don't fucking bother replying again.
They show it during the opening sequence. The wall is literally a huge wall of ice. Castle black is right outside the wall on the south. The rangers get to the other side using a gate/tunnel at its base. They also patrol the top of the wall by taking an elevator. In season 1, Tyrion pissed off the north edge of the wall from the top.

starman9000
05-02-12, 09:16 AM
We have never seen an aerial shot of the wall.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iN8PKcNGcuI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>