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View Full Version : Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII


Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18

VinVega
04-20-12, 07:22 AM
Previous thread HERE (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/other-talk/600014-unarmed-teen-gets-shot-overzealous-neighborhood-watch-florida-update-z-arrested-64.html#post11197937)

Keep the discussion on topic and make it clean. If you want to discuss the racial aspects of the case, fine. No need for racially derogatory comments. though.

RunBandoRun
04-20-12, 07:52 AM
Whites have too rioted. Haven't you ever heard of the White Night Riots in May 1979 in San Francisco, mhg83? If not, you better turn in your queer card. ;)

P.S. DID YOU CALL THE DOCTOR YET???? DO IT!

d2cheer
04-20-12, 07:54 AM
Whites have too rioted. Haven't you ever heard of the White Night Riots in May 1979 in San Francisco, mhg83? If not, you better turn in your queer card. ;)

P.S. DID YOU CALL THE DOCTOR YET???? DO IT!

Yea but recently whites only riot over really important things like, winning in College Basketball, Football, Hockey etc...

TheBigDave
04-20-12, 07:54 AM
ABC News has a photo from the crime scene showing Zimmerman's bloody head.

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/5299/htgeorgezimmermanheaddm.jpg

Warning Graphic Photo: Possible New Evidence Shows George Zimmerman's Bloodied Head

A new photograph obtained exclusively by ABC News showing the bloodied back of George Zimmerman's head, which was apparently taken three minutes after he shot and killed Trayvon Martin, gives possible credence to his claim that Martin had bashed his head against the concrete as Zimmerman fought for his life.

The exclusive image shows blood trickling down the back of Zimmerman's head from two cuts. It also shows a possible contusion forming on the crown of his head. The original police report that night notes that the back of Zimmerman's head was wet, and that he was bleeding from the nose and head.

FULL ARTICLE - http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-case-exclusive-photo-shows-bloodied-back/story?id=16177849

wishbone
04-20-12, 08:01 AM
He should have never -LEGALLY- shaved his head. -ohbfrank-

riotinmyskull
04-20-12, 08:18 AM
yea...good luck trying to convict him now.

Dash
04-20-12, 08:26 AM
Im assuming the prosecution had that picture, how are they going to convict him. Is the case going to be that he started the fight leading to the death. That’s the only thing I can think of, and really there is no real evidence of that only speculation.

I still think he should sue some of the TV networks, They have really F'ed up his life.

cpgator
04-20-12, 08:34 AM
I believe most people already believed Z got his head based and was injured during the fight. I think this will come down to who started the fight (probably impossible to determine) and if Z reasonably believed his life was in danger (also probably impossible to determine).

dvdjunkie32
04-20-12, 08:45 AM
WHy is this photo just coming out now? Good grief, people were outraged a few weeks ago over the video showing no injures on Zimmerman.

An injury to the head like that constitutes a life threatening situation.

Minor Threat
04-20-12, 08:50 AM
people without facts are stupid.....

mhg83
04-20-12, 08:50 AM
I believe most people already believed Z got his head based and was injured during the fight. I think this will come down to who started the fight (probably impossible to determine) and if Z reasonably believed his life was in danger (also probably impossible to determine).

Schoolyard defenses don't work in the courtroom.

Minor Threat
04-20-12, 08:51 AM
<---------- anxiously awaiting the riot coverage.....

Obey The D
04-20-12, 08:51 AM
Im assuming the prosecution had that picture, how are they going to convict him. Is the case going to be that he started the fight leading to the death. That’s the only thing I can think of, and really there is no real evidence of that only speculation.

I still think he should sue some of the TV networks, They have really F'ed up his life.

I honestly feel that the prosecutor's office realizes that they have no case, but they felt they had to press charges to appease all the people that are up in arms over this case.

VinVega
04-20-12, 08:53 AM
people without facts are stupid.....
Why do you always have to make it about Bandoman (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/other-talk/600829-why-bandoman-so-stupid.html)? :(

DVD Polizei
04-20-12, 08:54 AM
I still think he should sue some of the TV networks, They have really F'ed up his life.

Reminds of Richard Jewel and how the media displayed his face all over the US (and the world) as another wannabe-cop turned evildoer.

Once it's all over, if Zimmerman actually is free, he should sue the living fuck out of all the media networks who misrepresented him.

Martin's family should sue as well. Because they more than likely propped up lies on their end too, just to get certain viewer ratings.

Minor Threat
04-20-12, 08:58 AM
Why do you always have to make it about Bandoman (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/other-talk/600829-why-bandoman-so-stupid.html)? :(

Because if something is stupid, bandoman has to have had something to do with it.....

General Zod
04-20-12, 10:01 AM
Zimmerman is good on the stand. The prosecutor got nowhere.

I don't see any reason why bail would be denied. Zimmerman was in contact with the police from the beginning and then turned himself in. Not a flight risk. Bail should be reasonable.

General Zod
04-20-12, 10:11 AM
$150,000 Bond -- not too bad. The prosecutor wanted no bail or $1 million :lol:

Dave99
04-20-12, 10:33 AM
I honestly feel that the prosecutor's office realizes that they have no case, but they felt they had to press charges to appease all the people that are up in arms over this case.

we have a winner. And it's likely the first prosecutor saw this pic, and realized he had a loser of a case and that's why no charges were brought. Be interesting to see if the judge in the SYG hearing just dumps this case.

grundle
04-20-12, 10:39 AM
ABC News has a photo from the crime scene showing Zimmerman's bloody head.

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/5299/htgeorgezimmermanheaddm.jpg


If the photo is real, why didn't they just show it from the beginning, and avoid all this arguing?

DaveyJoe
04-20-12, 10:50 AM
people without facts are stupid.....

You mean ignorant, not stupid. There is a difference, and we are all ignorant about many aspects of this case.

Bandoman
04-20-12, 10:51 AM
people without facts are stupid.....

:mad: Some of us can be stupid AND have facts.

Giantrobo
04-20-12, 11:19 AM
I believe most people already believed Z got his head based and was injured during the fight. I think this will come down to who started the fight (probably impossible to determine) and if Z reasonably believed his life was in danger (also probably impossible to determine).

Even with my alllegedly closed mind(from a poster in pt I), I have to agree with you on this one. We'll never know who really started things before they got out of hand and Martin was killed. I do believe Zimmerman thought he was in danger because Martin is dead. But in my opnion...since im not on the jury...i can give that...Zimmerman is the most likely initial source of the aggression that night.

Save Ferris
04-20-12, 11:58 AM
Even with my alllegedly closed mind(from a poster in pt I), I have to agree with you on this one. We'll never know who really started things before they got out of hand and Martin was killed. I do believe Zimmerman thought he was in danger because Martin is dead. But in my opnion...since im not on the jury...i can give that...Zimmerman is the most likely initial source of the aggression that night.

With teenagers, crimes are usually crimes of opportunity. You have bored teens who wander around vandalize things break windows or jump people because they're at a very emotional 'invincible' stage in their life.

Maybe Zimmerman looked like some uptight prick who needed his ass beat and/or wallet stolen. Would you blame him for getting out of his car---for being an easy target?

I know you don't think T is a saint.

Th0r S1mpson
04-20-12, 12:03 PM
If the photo is real, why didn't they just show it from the beginning, and avoid all this arguing?

Because the media and the public are not supposed to be the prosecution, defense or jury?

They did release the video though, so one would think that this photo not long after would have been suitable given the widespread reaction of "no injury." But then you really start this game of playing it out with the public instead of the way things should be handled. A little late for that? Probably. I don't know the source or protocol for either the video or this image so who knows.

wmansir
04-20-12, 12:09 PM
Im assuming the prosecution had that picture, how are they going to convict him. Is the case going to be that he started the fight leading to the death. That’s the only thing I can think of, and really there is no real evidence of that only speculation.

I still think he should sue some of the TV networks, They have really F'ed up his life.
I read an article a few days ago saying that many Florida based defense attorneys they contacted said the state appeared to have a very weak case. They quoted one who was 15-0 in acquittals in self-defense cases that said under Florida law it doesn't matter who started a fight, all that matters is that at the moment he used deadly force the defendant reasonably feared for his life.

Giantrobo
04-20-12, 12:14 PM
With teenagers, crimes are usually crimes of opportunity. You have bored teens who wander around vandalize things break windows or jump people because they're at a very emotional 'invincible' stage in their life.

Maybe Zimmerman looked like some uptight prick who needed his ass beat and/or wallet stolen. Would you blame him for getting out of his car---for being an easy target?

I know you don't think T is a saint.


Or, maybe not...but we can agree to disagree. You assume the worst for Martin but for some reason that's ok, yet when I assume the worst of Zimmerman...I get shit from all the "Team Zimmerman" folks and I'm told to "wait for all the facts". That's fine.


Here's some Positive I'll give to Zimmerman just so you guys don't think I think he's all bad:

1. He was protecting his "territory".
2. He cared about the people in his community.
3. He wanted to "Protect and Serve".
4. He was zealous in his mission
5. His actions may have been legal
6. He has the benefit of doubt since he's still alive

Here's the Positive for Martin:

1. He was minding his business
2. He was legally allowed to be where he was
3. He was most likely standing his ground when confronted with a stranger following him.
4. He was able to stand his ground until the gun was used.

raven56706
04-20-12, 01:26 PM
i wonder if Martin did attack Zimmerman.... if those photos are true, what will celebrities, artists and the freaking president have to say then?

Me007gold
04-20-12, 01:32 PM
i wonder if Martin did attack Zimmerman.... if those photos are true, what will celebrities, artists and the freaking president have to say then?

Nothing, they will stick their tail between their legs, and never speak of it again. Acting like it never happened

Th0r S1mpson
04-20-12, 01:38 PM
Obama is already preparing a statement that if he had a son that attacked Zimmerman, the result would have been a lot like that photo.

Save Ferris
04-20-12, 01:41 PM
3. He was most likely standing his ground when confronted with a stranger following him.
4. He was able to stand his ground until the gun was used.

Since we don't know how events transpired are you able to believe that it's possible T initiated contact? You know, maybe he saw Z and was pissed off that he was watching him and started the fight.

Or is your position that Z antagonized him and was simply deserving of a good beat down, end of story both guys live?

Ranger
04-20-12, 02:32 PM
Wow, if the photo is real, there's no case.

maxfisher
04-20-12, 02:50 PM
Or, maybe not...but we can agree to disagree. You assume the worst for Martin but for some reason that's ok, yet when I assume the worst of Zimmerman...I get shit from all the "Team Zimmerman" folks and I'm told to "wait for all the facts". That's fine.

There are definitely some 'Team Zimmerman' folks, but it's not fair to lump everyone who says wait for the facts into that category. There's really been no evidence released to indicate that Zimmerman's version of the story isn't true, at least in terms of how it affects the legality of his actions. Despite that, a lot of people very vocally think the man should go to jail or be strung up. To me, that's bullshit. If something like this goes down with no witness and the evidence doesn't indicate that the survivor actually committed crime, our system lets the person off. I don't know jack shit about Zimmerman, but I'm pro- innocent until proven guilty. If the all of the evidence backs what he says happened, as it seems to, I think it's a gross perversion of our system to put him on trial or punish him for what might've hypothetically happened.

My position on this has nothing to do with the race of anyone involved or the fact that Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch member or Martin was a kid in a hoodie or whatever. Say Zimmerman had ended up shot dead with no witnesses and Martin said some guy came running up to him, yelling with a gun out, and that he'd wrestled it away from him and shot him. If the evidence supported his story, I'd be just as against the media and large portions of the public calling him a murderer and demanding he be brought to justice, as well as a prosecutor caving to public pressure and bringing a case with no shot at a conviction.

Tragic as it is, this story would've been a blip and Zimmerman would've never been charged if the two parties were the same race or if the media hadn't jumped on and trumped up a sexy white vs black angle to it. The initial coverage of this whole ordeal was like journalists reporting as fact a game of telephone being played by uninformed people over Twitter.

Groucho
04-20-12, 03:03 PM
Wow, if the photo is real, there's no case.Not necessarily, especially if the prosecutions assertion is that Zimmerman physically attacked Martin and during the altercation Martin got the upper hand.

(Not at all saying this is what happened, just giving a scenario in which the photo doesn't instantly exonerate Zimmerman)

General Zod
04-20-12, 03:13 PM
Obama is already preparing a statement that if he had a son that attacked Zimmerman, the result would have been a lot like that photo.
:lol:

I think it's time for the president to have a beer with Zimmerman.

Philzilla
04-20-12, 03:41 PM
Not necessarily, especially if the prosecutions assertion is that Zimmerman physically attacked Martin and during the altercation Martin got the upper hand.

(Not at all saying this is what happened, just giving a scenario in which the photo doesn't instantly exonerate Zimmerman)

Too bad the lead investigator said today in court that he didn't know who started the altercation.

eXcentris
04-20-12, 05:11 PM
Warning Graphic Photo: Possible New Evidence Shows George Zimmerman's Bloodied Head

Yeah and if I recall correctly, on the video where he got out of the police car at the station, he didn't even have a band-aid on his head. Meh...

Dave99
04-20-12, 05:14 PM
Yeah and if I recall correctly, on the video where he got out of the police car at the station, he didn't even have a band-aid on his head. Meh...

It doesn't take that much a blow to the head to really knock you for a loop to where you see stars & can't fight back.

TomOpus
04-20-12, 05:19 PM
Yeah and if I recall correctly, on the video where he got out of the police car at the station, he didn't even have a band-aid on his head. Meh...From what I remember your skull will bleed more than other parts of the body. From the looks of the photo he got a couple cuts and blood had dribbled down so it looked worse than it was. Probably didn't need any stitches, just some cleaning up.

Not sure why this photo is such a big deal since we already knew there was some kind of a struggle.

eXcentris
04-20-12, 05:21 PM
Exactly. But leave it to the media to unearth a "smoking gun" and make it sound like he's lucky to have survived such massive head wounds. :lol:

PopcornTreeCt
04-20-12, 06:03 PM
DVDTalk Achievement Unlocked: Made a thread long enough that it produces a sequel.

*tear

nando820
04-20-12, 06:14 PM
i wonder if Martin did attack Zimmerman.... if those photos are true, what will celebrities, artists and the freaking president have to say then?

Absolutely nothing is still Zimmerman fault

If I start following someone when I'm told not to and then I go and say what you doing walking in my territory http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_fTT9xlgZ9CU/TGDSr74k6RI/AAAAAAAAqWE/waxp02DGHMI/s1600/Respect+My+Authority.jpeg then someone pulls a gun and blows my brains out I think my dead self would have to admit is my fault for being a fucking idiot snooping around where I wasn't called.

mhg83
04-20-12, 06:31 PM
Absolutely nothing is still Zimmerman fault

If I start following someone when I'm told not to and then I go and say what you doing walking in my territory http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_fTT9xlgZ9CU/TGDSr74k6RI/AAAAAAAAqWE/waxp02DGHMI/s1600/Respect+My+Authority.jpeg then someone pulls a gun and blows my brains out I think my dead self would have to admit is my fault for being a fucking idiot snooping around where I wasn't called.

It's his neighborhood too. He has every right to be concerned just as much as Martin has every right to be walking around. Someone in the previous thread made a great analogy about how if a woman goes down a dark alley and gets raped is it her fault because she shouldn't have been there in the first place?

There should also be nothing wrong with asking what someone is doing in their neighborhood that they don't recognize. I was confronted a few years back when pet sitting in a rich neighborhood. I stuck out like sore thumb and the guy had every right to be suspicious of me.

SkullOrchard
04-20-12, 06:37 PM
A small cut on the head versus a life ending gunshot wound to the chest.

I declare Zimmerman the winner of that fight.

nando820
04-20-12, 06:40 PM
It's his neighborhood too. He has every right to be concerned just as much as Martin has every right to be walking around. Someone in the previous thread made a great analogy about how if a woman goes down a dark alley and gets raped is it her fault because she shouldn't have been there in the first place?

There should also be nothing wrong with asking what someone is doing in their neighborhood that they don't recognize. I was confronted a few years back when pet sitting in a rich neighborhood. I stuck out like sore thumb and the guy had every right to be suspicious of me.

That is the difference I consider that very wrong

Schloob1
04-20-12, 06:45 PM
Yeah and if I recall correctly, on the video where he got out of the police car at the station, he didn't even have a band-aid on his head. Meh...

Yes, but what you will also note in the video is you can clearly see one of the officers take a look at the back of his head as well. IMO, looking at what happened to him, and just because you have no bandage means nothing obviously. Proper medical attention will do wonders you know.

DVD Polizei
04-20-12, 07:58 PM
I read an article a few days ago saying that many Florida based defense attorneys they contacted said the state appeared to have a very weak case. They quoted one who was 15-0 in acquittals in self-defense cases that said under Florida law it doesn't matter who started a fight, all that matters is that at the moment he used deadly force the defendant reasonably feared for his life.

Kinda what I eluded to earlier but Ted Nugent said it was a pile of bullshit. :mad:

superdeluxe
04-21-12, 12:04 AM
Prosecutor going to waste millions of tax payor dollars to give a show. No way you are going to get 12 guilty votes

PopcornTreeCt
04-21-12, 12:08 AM
Prosecutor going to waste millions of tax payor dollars to give a show. No way you are going to get 12 guilty votes

Agreed. Though I wouldn't call it a waste, I'm pretty sure most Florida tax payers want to watch the show even if doesn't end the way they want it.

Giantrobo
04-21-12, 12:27 AM
Exactly. But leave it to the media to unearth a "smoking gun" and make it sound like he's lucky to have survived such massive head wounds. :lol:

Exactly.

JesseCuster
04-21-12, 03:21 AM
If Zimmerman killed this kid for no reason well damn him. But if he did shoot him in self defense and if the head photo is real, maybe some parents need to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and confront the fact that they have to control their kids better. No, you will not dress a certain way. No, you will not behave a certain way. Because finaly there are consequences and shite can happen. And I honestly don't think its racial. Does anyone doubt Eminem, the way he's often dressed, wouldn't or doesn't have a problem when strolling around? And yes, finally, I have an issue with Zimmerman walking into a problem after he was told not to by law officials.

rw2516
04-21-12, 06:00 AM
I read an article a few days ago saying that many Florida based defense attorneys they contacted said the state appeared to have a very weak case. They quoted one who was 15-0 in acquittals in self-defense cases that said under Florida law it doesn't matter who started a fight, all that matters is that at the moment he used deadly force the defendant reasonably feared for his life.

That's insane. Are there exemptions to the "it doesn't matter who started it, what circumstances led up to it" part of the law?

If I slap my girlfriend around and she picks up a knife, I can grab a lamp and bash her skull in?

Exemptions for crime?
Guy holds up liquor store with gun. Clerk is scared for his life and pulls gun. Holdup guy becomes scared for his life and shoots clerk. Obvious self defense since the holdup man was scared the clerk was going to kill him.

It would appear then also, Martin could have hid behind a bush, ambushed Zimmerman, saw Zimmerman had a gun, became afraid he might get shot, so beat Zimmerman's head against the ground until he was dead, claim self defense under the law because circumstances don't matter, what does matter is that Martin was in fear of his life when he saw the gun.

It can't be that black and white, yet there are 15 precident cases that support it is.

Schloob1
04-21-12, 07:58 AM
That's insane. Are there exemptions to the "it doesn't matter who started it, what circumstances led up to it" part of the law?

If I slap my girlfriend around and she picks up a knife, I can grab a lamp and bash her skull in?

Exemptions for crime?
Guy holds up liquor store with gun. Clerk is scared for his life and pulls gun. Holdup guy becomes scared for his life and shoots clerk. Obvious self defense since the holdup man was scared the clerk was going to kill him.

It would appear then also, Martin could have hid behind a bush, ambushed Zimmerman, saw Zimmerman had a gun, became afraid he might get shot, so beat Zimmerman's head against the ground until he was dead, claim self defense under the law because circumstances don't matter, what does matter is that Martin was in fear of his life when he saw the gun.

It can't be that black and white, yet there are 15 precident cases that support it is.

This would be an assumption that he saw the gun and/or that Zimmerman actually had it pulled on him before the actual altercation took place though. I don't think we know for certain that this is the case.

rw2516
04-21-12, 08:39 AM
This would be an assumption that he saw the gun and/or that Zimmerman actually had it pulled on him before the actual altercation took place though. I don't think we know for certain that this is the case.

I haven't heard anything that this is the case either. Just a what if example to plug into the Florida law that "under the law it doesn't matter who started the fight, all that matters is that under the law there is a reasonable fear for your life at the moment you use deadly force".

Franchot
04-21-12, 03:11 PM
That's insane. Are there exemptions to the "it doesn't matter who started it, what circumstances led up to it" part of the law?

If I slap my girlfriend around and she picks up a knife, I can grab a lamp and bash her skull in?

Exemptions for crime?
Guy holds up liquor store with gun. Clerk is scared for his life and pulls gun. Holdup guy becomes scared for his life and shoots clerk. Obvious self defense since the holdup man was scared the clerk was going to kill him.

Your girlfriend would be bruised and battered from you slapping her which probably can't be easily determined because you proceeded to bash her skull in with a lamp. You don't have a mark on you? You are going to jail. (You could have also fled from the confrontation instead of picking up that lamp...)

Are you serious about the liquor store example? The guy who holds up a liquor store with a gun is already committing an armed robbery.

rw2516
04-21-12, 04:41 PM
Your girlfriend would be bruised and battered from you slapping her which probably can't be easily determined because you proceeded to bash her skull in with a lamp. You don't have a mark on you? You are going to jail. (You could have also fled from the confrontation instead of picking up that lamp...)

Are you serious about the liquor store example? The guy who holds up a liquor store with a gun is already committing an armed robbery.

The Florida lawyers are stating it doesn't matter who starts a confrontation. If the person who kills is in fear of their life at that moment, it's self defense under stand your ground.

I'm asking what circumstances are relevant, if any, leading up to the killing, since whoever initiated the confrontation appears to be moot in Florida.

Can someone committing a crime claim self defense in Florida? Unclear. You can commit the crime of assault & battery by punching someone in the face and then kill them lawfully under stand your ground when the person you assaulted gets the better of you.

What if two armed guys shoot each other, survive, and claim stand your ground. No crime committed?

On the news it's been stated that under the law you can chase someone down and shoot them. In the back supposedly.

Also on the news, you can use deadly force to protect someone else's property. If you see someone carrying a tv out of your neighbors house at 2am you can go over and shoot them.

rw2516
04-21-12, 04:59 PM
ABC News has a photo from the crime scene showing Zimmerman's bloody head.

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/5299/htgeorgezimmermanheaddm.jpg

Legal talking heads on Fox News are questioning the authenticity of the photo. Supposedly the blood trails are running the wrong way, inconsistent with someone on their back.

Me007gold
04-21-12, 05:36 PM
Legal talking heads on Fox News are questioning the authenticity of the photo. Supposedly the blood trails are running the wrong way, inconsistent with someone on their back.


playing devils advocate


It looks like there are some large areas where the blood was "pooled" while he was laying his back, but between the time he stood up and the time the police got there, the blood ran down the correct way

DVD Polizei
04-21-12, 07:17 PM
Legal talking heads on Fox News are questioning the authenticity of the photo. Supposedly the blood trails are running the wrong way, inconsistent with someone on their back.

And I would expect nothing less from FOX, because this is an ABC News exclusive.

Giantrobo
04-21-12, 07:20 PM
And I would expect nothing less from FOX, because this is an ABC News exclusive.

Really? I would expect them to totally support this photo not questioning it at all. From what I hear they are Pro-Zimmerman. But I could have heard that wrong...

DVD Polizei
04-21-12, 07:29 PM
Well, you have multiple layers of politics going on, and ABC, being rather Liberal, would imply FOX News was aligning themselves with ABC. Of course, I'd expect ABC News--especially MSNBC and Larry O'--to do the same thing if FOX News came out with some exclusive photo.

But I do have to question how ABC News got this instead of FOX News, if FOX was so pro-Zimmerman. Wouldn't the person having the exclusive image give it to the highest bidder? And wouldn't have FOX News scooped that photo up ASAP to prove their point? I would have thought so.

Th0r S1mpson
04-21-12, 08:58 PM
Someone killed someone else who looks like Obama's kid. Which side do YOU think FoxNEWS is going to take?

logrus9
04-21-12, 09:16 PM
Neither, they're fair and balanced. :)

wmansir
04-21-12, 10:09 PM
That's insane. Are there exemptions to the "it doesn't matter who started it, what circumstances led up to it" part of the law?


Here's the story (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57414081/strength-of-case-against-zimmerman-questioned/)

... But many criminal trial lawyers in Orlando see nothing in the special prosecutor's affidavit that would convict Zimmerman.

Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law allows even the original aggressor in a fight to use deadly force - if that person becomes reasonably afraid of being killed or seriously hurt.

Trial lawyer Richard Hornsby has litigated 15 "Stand Your Ground" cases - none of them homicides - and won them all.

Hornsby told CBS News he thinks Corey's affidavit is more significant for what it leaves out than for what it includes.

"The moment George Zimmerman fired that shot is the key question in this entire case," Hornsby said. "Did he reasonably believe he had to fire that shot to defend himself? And the fact (Corey) completely left that out, begs the question, does she not have any evidence to refute his version of the events?" ...
I don't recall the "none of them homicides" caveat, they may have updated the article.

The law states:

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity, and who is attacked in any (...) place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

It seems to me the article misstates the law, but the lawyer's quote appears to back that interpretation up.

DVD Polizei
04-21-12, 10:30 PM
Someone killed someone else who looks like Obama's kid. Which side do YOU think FoxNEWS is going to take?

Because of you, I lost half my soda just now. Thanks, Thor!

Sdallnct
04-21-12, 10:40 PM
I don't understand the law at all. Are a lot of people sitting in jail for "standing their ground" and protecting themselves or their property? I read that the law was based on a case where the individual was protecting his life or property and it took a while before he was cleared. So? Shouldn't every death be investigated?

Tommy Ceez
04-22-12, 12:15 AM
The stand your ground law is retarded, and all the new evidence leads me to this conclusion;

Stupid **** wanna be cop Zimmerman should have stayed in his car

arminius
04-22-12, 09:01 AM
The stand your ground law is retarded, and all the new evidence leads me to this conclusion;

Stupid **** wanna be cop Zimmerman should have stayed in his car

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dfe8tCcHnKY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

BKenn01
04-22-12, 10:54 AM
The stand your ground law is retarded, and all the new evidence leads me to this conclusion;

Stupid **** wanna be cop Zimmerman should have stayed in his car

Yes if a fucking douche breaks into your house and you shoot and kill his sorry ass his family should be able to sue you because you know you didnt have to shoot him.:sarcasm:

Point is the law is more than what the fucking media is telling you....

DaveyJoe
04-22-12, 12:27 PM
Point is the law is more than what the fucking media is telling you....

It's not like they're hiding it from the viewing public. Go read it on wikipedia if you're so interested in it. Here, I'll even link it for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

Dave99
04-22-12, 12:59 PM
The stand your ground law is retarded, and all the new evidence leads me to this conclusion;

Stupid **** wanna be cop Zimmerman should have stayed in his car

You seem to dismiss the idea that martin likely could have defused this situation just as easily as zimmerman.

Me007gold
04-22-12, 01:15 PM
You seem to dismiss the idea that martin likely could have defused this situation just as easily as zimmerman.

*cue* if Zimmerman's fat racist ass would have stayed in the car, it would have been an issue

:rolleyes:

Giantrobo
04-22-12, 01:19 PM
You seem to dismiss the idea that martin likely could have defused this situation just as easily as zimmerman.

How? How do you know he didnt? Maybe he was trying to talk it out and Zimmerman pulled his gun.
Maybe Martin was fighting for HIS life when this stranger approached him armed and ready to not "let one get away". Maybe Martin was afraid of some gun toting stragner who had been following him.

You guys have no problem just believing Zimmerman is the angel. How is that any different from me believing Martin wasn't the initial aggressor? You guys don't allow anyone to give Martin the benefit of doubt. You guys are hypocritical in this area and not even honest enough to admit it.

But hey, that's how Americans rolls.....

Giantrobo
04-22-12, 01:29 PM
*cue* if Zimmerman's fat racist ass would have stayed in the car, it would have been an issue

:rolleyes:

*cue*

Martin got what he deserved for being in a Hoodie and in an area where he didn't belong because he was probably up to no good so he viciously attacked Zimmerman for no other reason than shits and giggles because that's what "they" do....

:rolleyes:

Me007gold
04-22-12, 01:38 PM
*cue*

Martin got what he deserved for being in a Hoodie and in an area where he didn't belong because he was probably up to no good so he viciously attacked Zimmerman for no other reason than shits and giggles because that's what "they" do....

:rolleyes:

No body is saying that!

Dave99
04-22-12, 01:49 PM
How? How do you know he didnt? Maybe he was trying to talk it out and Zimmerman pulled his gun.
Maybe Martin was fighting for HIS life when this stranger approached him armed and ready to not "let one get away". Maybe Martin was afraid of some gun toting stragner who had been following him.

You guys have no problem just believing Zimmerman is the angel. How is that any different from me believing Martin wasn't the initial aggressor? You guys don't allow anyone to give Martin the benefit of doubt. You guys are hypocritical in this area and not even honest enough to admit it.

But hey, that's how Americans rolls.....

I certainly don't think zimmerman is an angel, he easily could have stopped this before it started. As I said before, you have two people who were probably suspicious of each other, and a terrible set of circumstances. It's likely either one could have stopped this, but those circumstances didn't allow either one to behave like an adult and calm things down.

And I've seen nothing to suggest that zimmerman had his gun out anytime before their confrontation, so martin wouldn't have known he was gun-toting stranger.

Duran
04-22-12, 01:57 PM
I think some people give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt because the first thing he did was to call police. Most people do not summon the police and then murder someone in cold blood. Additionally, this isn't the first time he'd called police on what he thought was a suspicious person, and he hadn't just shot them before.

That said, I have no opinion in this case, and won't until the evidence is presented at trial.

Giantrobo
04-22-12, 02:00 PM
I certainly don't think zimmerman is an angel, he easily could have stopped this before it started. As I said before, you have two people who were probably suspicious of each other, and a terrible set of circumstances. It's likely either one could have stopped this, but those circumstances didn't allow either one to behave like an adult and calm things down.

Ok, fair enough. But all we have is Zimmerman's word and the word of some Witnesses who only saw a small portion of the struggle. Hell, come to think of it...did any witness actually say they saw Zimmerman getting his head bashed?



And I've seen nothing to suggest that zimmerman had his gun out anytime before their confrontation, so martin wouldn't have known he was gun-toting stranger.

I've seen nothing to suggest that Zimmerman DIDN'T have his gun out at any time. How are you so sure he didn't have his gun out? We are BOTH speculating correct? So let's be honest about that FACT...it's SPECULATION.

Giantrobo
04-22-12, 02:06 PM
I think some people give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt because the first thing he did was to call police. Most people do not summon the police and then murder someone in cold blood. Additionally, this isn't the first time he'd called police on what he thought was a suspicious person, and he hadn't just shot them before.



Let me be clear, I DO NOT believe Zimmerman got up to kill a person that day. But I do believe his bad choices in those moments led to Martin's Death.


That said, I have no opinion in this case, and won't until the evidence is presented at trial.

That's fine. But many have said that in here and in the other thread and have posted comments that clearly takes sides one way or the other. I'll take a chance and take a side on this. I could be very wrong. And although, I don't think we'll ever know the whole truth, especially since Martin is dead, I'll have to take that risk.

Me007gold
04-22-12, 02:10 PM
Let me be clear, I DO NOT believe Zimmerman got up to kill a person that day. But I do believe his bad choices in those moments led to Martin's Death.



That's fine. But many have said that in here and in the other thread and have posted comments that clearly takes sides one way or the other. I'll take a chance and take a side on this. I could be very wrong. And although, I don't think we'll ever know the whole truth, especially since Martin is dead, I'll have to take that risk.

The only reason people are taking sides is because of the way the law is written. It makes it very hard to think Zimmerman is guilty of anything other then bad judgement. If this had happend in a state that dose not have a Stand your Ground or a Castle Doctrine law, it would be a very differnet outcome.

Lt Ripley
04-22-12, 02:23 PM
It's likely either one could have stopped this, but those circumstances didn't allow either one to behave like an adult and calm things down.

Well, one of them wasn't an adult, so it is hard to say he should have acted like an adult. He was a scared kid. Someone was stalking through the neighborhood.

I don't think Z will be found guilty.

Giantrobo
04-22-12, 02:47 PM
Well, one of them wasn't an adult, so it is hard to say he should have acted like an adult. He was a scared kid. Someone was stalking through the neighborhood.

I don't think Z will be found guilty.

Agree on all points.

DVD Polizei
04-22-12, 03:02 PM
Well, one of them wasn't an adult, so it is hard to say he should have acted like an adult. He was a scared kid. Someone was stalking through the neighborhood.

I don't think Z will be found guilty.

Martin hadn't been living in the vicinity for that long, which spawned curiosity from Zimmerman. Stalking implies you've done it repeatedly to one person. This was the first time Zimmerman and Martin had crossed paths. And if we are going to attach the term to Zimmerman, legal precedence would be much more critical because the cases concern a pattern of stalking behavior directed towards one individual.

If Martin was a scared kid...he would have ran away while calling the police, explaining to them a person was following him.

Instead, he confronts Zimmerman.

This is not indicative of a scared kid.

Franchot
04-22-12, 03:16 PM
If Martin was a scared kid...he would have ran away while calling the police, explaining to them a person was following him.


Good point. I hadn't thought of that.

Since Martin had his cellphone available and was talking to his girlfriend, is there any record of either Martin or his girlfriend calling the police to notify them that a strange man was following/stalking him?

mhg83
04-22-12, 03:23 PM
Good point. I hadn't thought of that.

Since Martin had his cellphone available and was talking to his girlfriend, is there any record of either Martin or his girlfriend calling the police to notify them that a strange man was following/stalking him?

I brought that up in the previous thread:

Why didn't Martin call 911 if he was scared? If I was 17 walking alone at night and being followed by a creepy guy in a car and having a cell phone i would end the call with my GF and dial 911!

Something doesn't add up.

Formerly known as missflores
04-22-12, 03:50 PM
Good point. I hadn't thought of that.

Since Martin had his cellphone available and was talking to his girlfriend, is there any record of either Martin or his girlfriend calling the police to notify them that a strange man was following/stalking him?

The girlfriend says she believes at the end of the phone call Trayvon was been attacked yet it doesnt seem she tried to contact anyone. In fact if it was not for Mr Matin finding out about the phone call through the phone records it seems she would have never come forward.

It seems very strange. She heared her teenage boyfriend been attacked. She didnt have any contact with him afterwards yet she didnt try to contact the parents or the police to find out if he was alright.

Lt Ripley
04-22-12, 06:19 PM
Martin hadn't been living in the vicinity for that long, which spawned curiosity from Zimmerman. Stalking implies you've done it repeatedly to one person. This was the first time Zimmerman and Martin had crossed paths. And if we are going to attach the term to Zimmerman, legal precedence would be much more critical because the cases concern a pattern of stalking behavior directed towards one individual.

If Martin was a scared kid...he would have ran away while calling the police, explaining to them a person was following him.

Instead, he confronts Zimmerman.

This is not indicative of a scared kid.

3 times while I was a teenager growing up in Detroit, not the burbs, I was being stalked by someone. I confronted them each time even though I was scared. One of those times got my ass kicked pretty good till some folks broke it up. He is a kid, can't expect him to act like an adult.

I blame the adult in this situation. He is an adult, he is supposed to think like one. Z wasn't curious, he was a paranoid asshole.

Stalking has to be over several separate times, my ass. If you are in a car, following me slowly while I am walking, your ass is stalking me at that moment. For all the kid knew, Z could have been calling some of his buddies to confront him further in the neighborhood. Kid was scared, did what he thought needed to be done. The adult in this situation should have acted like an adult, not a paranoid peace of shit.

Lt Ripley
04-22-12, 06:20 PM
It seems very strange. She heared her teenage boyfriend been attacked. She didnt have any contact with him afterwards yet she didnt try to contact the parents or the police to find out if he was alright.

I agree that doesn't add up. Why wouldn't she call the police or someone?

arminius
04-22-12, 06:32 PM
I agree that doesn't add up. Why wouldn't she call the police or someone?

Maybe the last few words were "You got him, beat his head on the ground, get that white-hispanic". POW. oh oh.

Lt Ripley
04-22-12, 06:34 PM
Maybe the last few words were "You got him, beat his head on the ground, get that white-hispanic". POW. oh oh.

:lol: I shouldn't laugh, but I did.

Giantrobo
04-22-12, 07:04 PM
Martin hadn't been living in the vicinity for that long, which spawned curiosity from Zimmerman. Stalking implies you've done it repeatedly to one person. This was the first time Zimmerman and Martin had crossed paths. And if we are going to attach the term to Zimmerman, legal precedence would be much more critical because the cases concern a pattern of stalking behavior directed towards one individual.

If Martin was a scared kid...he would have ran away while calling the police, explaining to them a person was following him.

Instead, he confronts Zimmerman.

This is not indicative of a scared kid.

All speculation like the rest of us.

DVD Polizei
04-22-12, 07:14 PM
3 times while I was a teenager growing up in Detroit, not the burbs, I was being stalked by someone. I confronted them each time even though I was scared. One of those times got my ass kicked pretty good till some folks broke it up. He is a kid, can't expect him to act like an adult.

I blame the adult in this situation. He is an adult, he is supposed to think like one. Z wasn't curious, he was a paranoid asshole.

Stalking has to be over several separate times, my ass. If you are in a car, following me slowly while I am walking, your ass is stalking me at that moment. For all the kid knew, Z could have been calling some of his buddies to confront him further in the neighborhood. Kid was scared, did what he thought needed to be done. The adult in this situation should have acted like an adult, not a paranoid peace of shit.

For some reason you're stuck on one person being legally an adult the other a minor. Remember, such a minor could be charged as an "adult" under certain laws and Florida, coincidentally, will charge a minor as an adult if they commit certain crimes--no matter what the age, apparently.

So, where exactly does being a minor or an adult come into this situation. Because adults can be stupid, and minors can be rather smart. If anything, you're saying Zimmerman acted like a minor. Because minors, under Florida Law, can't make adult decisions for themselves responsibly.

I really don't think the Prosecution or Defense is going to argue the fact that Zimmerman was an adult under Florida Law, and Martin was a minor. I could be wrong, and we'll just have to see, I guess.

All speculation like the rest of us.

Except for the fact Martin was recently living with his father (where the altercation happened) after being suspended from school for 10 days (and we haven't found out yet why and wouldn'tcha know, attorneys for Martin's family, have requested his school files be sealed--why is that? I thought he was such a wonderful person...according to his father who knows why Martin was recently living with him). Things aren't adding up. If Martin was doing something illegal in his past, then say it. Don't try to hide it. Because this conveys a conspiracy to keep Martin a victim. I remember when Zimmerman's past was brought up without an eye-blink from the other side.

Lt Ripley
04-22-12, 07:38 PM
Lots of interesting stuff.

Yep,some minors are very mature. Lots of adults are immature. Sure some minors are charged as an "adult" for certain crimes such as murder, etc.

My original post was a response to someone saying they both should have acted like adults. One of them legally isn't an adult. So the kid may have had the intention of kicking Z's ass after wondering why the dipshit was stalking him through the neighborhood. Sounds like a response that a big percentage of minors would have. Don't think the kid had the intention of kicking Z's ass when he left his house to buy some junk food.

Z is a fucking idiot. He won't be found guilty though. Z caused all of this. Fuck him.

General Zod
04-22-12, 10:25 PM
Except for the fact Martin was recently living with his father (where the altercation happened) after being suspended from school for 10 days (and we haven't found out yet why and wouldn'tcha know, attorneys for Martin's family, have requested his school files be sealed--why is that? I thought he was such a wonderful person...according to his father who knows why Martin was recently living with him). Things aren't adding up. If Martin was doing something illegal in his past, then say it. Don't try to hide it. Because this conveys a conspiracy to keep Martin a victim. I remember when Zimmerman's past was brought up without an eye-blink from the other side.
:up:

Martin was a loser. That doesn't mean he deserved to die. But I'll tell you this with all his problems only at 17 it seems like he didn't make smart decisions. I think attacking Zimmerman was his final stupid decision and that's not Zimmerman's fault.

TomOpus
04-22-12, 11:36 PM
Per the AP, George was released from jail.

Giantrobo
04-23-12, 12:59 AM
Except for the fact Martin was recently living with his father (where the altercation happened) after being suspended from school for 10 days (and we haven't found out yet why and wouldn'tcha know, attorneys for Martin's family, have requested his school files be sealed--why is that? I thought he was such a wonderful person...according to his father who knows why Martin was recently living with him). Things aren't adding up. If Martin was doing something illegal in his past, then say it. Don't try to hide it. Because this conveys a conspiracy to keep Martin a victim. I remember when Zimmerman's past was brought up without an eye-blink from the other side.

I for one have never denied Martin's troubled last several weeks before his death, and, unlike people like you who buy Zimmerman's story sight unseen.... I've also never denied Zimmerman's past troubled VIOLENT past. But unlike many of you, I didn't make big deal about Zimmerman's VIOLENT past UNTIL people started trying to paint Martin as a Thug deserving what he got based on people believing Zimmerman's story of being attacked. A story I have a hard time believing.

But again, you're doing exactly what I'm doing...giving "Your Guy" the benefit of doubt. I can't really blame you for that.

But here's the IMPORTANT question: Was Martin doing something illegal the night he was killed?

SO FAR...nothing shows that he was doing anything other than minding his business while being stalked by Zimmerman. It is likely...and this is the same speculating that you yourself are engaged in.... that the only attack occurred AFTER Zimmerman gave him good reason to feel threatened.


:up:

Martin was a loser. That doesn't mean he deserved to die. But I'll tell you this with all his problems only at 17 it seems like he didn't make smart decisions. I think attacking Zimmerman was his final stupid decision and that's not Zimmerman's fault.

Awe hell man, what 17yo doesn't make mistakes? Zimmerman is a grown ass man and he made mistakes that night that led to the death of Martin. And BTW....Zimmerman's VIOLENT past and overly zealous/paranoid behavior lets us know that he's not the level headed Guardian Angel "Team Zimmerman" makes him out to be. Perhaps his overly zealous behavior, paranoid thinking(where Black Males are concerned), and VIOLENT tendencies contributed to the death of an admittedly FLAWED but still human and most likely INNOCENT young man name TRAYVON MARTIN.

Giantrobo
04-23-12, 01:23 AM
The girlfriend says she believes at the end of the phone call Trayvon was been attacked yet it doesnt seem she tried to contact anyone. In fact if it was not for Mr Matin finding out about the phone call through the phone records it seems she would have never come forward.

It seems very strange. She heared her teenage boyfriend been attacked. She didnt have any contact with him afterwards yet she didnt try to contact the parents or the police to find out if he was alright.

It does seem strange that she didn't call anyone. But she did try to call Martin back after the phone was dropped after she heard what sounded like a physical attack...but he didn't pick up.

Maybe she didn't have Martin's parent's phone number?

maxfisher
04-23-12, 06:59 AM
The only reason people are taking sides is because of the way the law is written. It makes it very hard to think Zimmerman is guilty of anything other then bad judgement. If this had happend in a state that dose not have a Stand your Ground or a Castle Doctrine law, it would be a very differnet outcome.

People keep posting this, but I don't see how it's true. Perhaps a law otter can put this to bed once and for all? Maybe I'm missing something, but Stand Your Ground deals with whether you have a duty to retreat if someone is presenting an immediate threat to you. If you're unable to retreat, it doesn't have any bearing whatsoever. So if Zimmerman's telling the truth, it doesn't apply because he couldn't retreat. I don't think that any state that allows people to carry would convict a legally-carrying person for shooting someone who had them pinned to the ground and was bashing their head against it. And if Zimmerman is lying and wasn't being beaten when he shot Martin, Stand Your Ground doesn't apply as Martin was unarmed and couldn't have been posting an immediate threat to him.

Anyway, the whole crux of this thing is can it be PROVEN that Zimmerman committed a crime. If it can't, he gets off. And if there's no evidence that he did, he shouldn't even be charged. That's our system. Some people seem to have a real problem with this, but I personally prefer it to people being charged and convicted based on how much outrage the media can stir up or whether large members of the public at large can imagine a scenario they'd like to believe that would make a person guilty.

TomOpus
04-23-12, 12:42 PM
Breaking News: Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee is going to resign.

wmansir
04-25-12, 11:49 PM
Reuters has the most detailed profile of Zimmerman (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425) I've read to date. I know it had previously been reported that the neighborhood had a rash of home break-ins, but this article gives some interesting details, particularly about Zimmerman's involvement in those incidents and how it may have shaped his thoughts and actions on the night he killed Martin.

EDIT: Updated with the correct link, thanks logrus9.

logrus9
04-26-12, 06:07 AM
"page not found"

this one works

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

TheBigDave
04-26-12, 06:32 AM
this one works

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

That's an excellent article. I didn't know half that stuff. Especially the info in that last section about the previous incident.

TomOpus
04-26-12, 09:11 AM
George Zimmerman's Website Taken Down (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/26/zimmerman-website-shut-down_n_1455194.html)

ORLANDO, Fla. — The website that George Zimmerman set up to help raise money for his legal defense in Trayvon Martin's shooting has been disabled, a spokesman for his lawyer said Wednesday.

The website was no longer functioning as of Tuesday, said James Woods, a spokesman for Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O'Mara. Zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder in the shooting death of the 17-year-old Martin in February. He has pleaded not guilty and is claiming self-defense. http://www.therealgeorgezimmerman.com

"It was taken down at Mark's request and he will not have any future online presence unless authorized in advance by Mark," Woods said in an email.

He said he had no information on how much money the website raised.

O'Mara has hinted that he will ask Zimmerman to be declared indigent, which would allow taxpayers to pay for his legal bills. Any income from the website would make that process more difficult.

The website was created almost two weeks ago by Zimmerman's family to thank his supporters and to receive donations from anyone who wanted to help with his legal defense.

The 44-day delay in Zimmerman's arrest spurred protests nationwide and inspired a national debate about racial profiling, equal justice under the law and Florida's self-defense law.

Zimmerman went into hiding earlier this week after he was released from jail on a $150,000 bond.

DVD Polizei
04-26-12, 09:20 AM
Good idea to take the website down until AFTER the determination of the court.

Formerly known as missflores
04-26-12, 09:47 AM
"page not found"

this one works

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

Everything about the recent crime spree at the gated community is interesting but they could have left out everything else. Who cares that he was an altar boy or that he used to polish his boots?

I also love that the Zimmerman's are following in the Martin's footsteps by providing all those childhood pictures of George.

logrus9
04-26-12, 10:14 AM
That's an excellent article. I didn't know half that stuff. Especially the info in that last section about the previous incident.

Credit goes to Wmansir, I just did a search after he pointed out the website.

cpgator
04-26-12, 11:42 AM
Everything about the recent crime spree at the gated community is interesting but they could have left out everything else. Who cares that he was an altar boy or that he used to polish his boots?

I also love that the Zimmerman's are following in the Martin's footsteps by providing all those childhood pictures of George.

The article is meant to provide more info on Zimmerman, so these details woudl be useful.

Th0r S1mpson
04-26-12, 11:47 AM
It doesn't even tell us what kind of candy Zimmerman likes to eat. :mad:

Honestly, there is some really good info in that article, but it doesn't enlighten us in any way about the actual altercation that took place.

Iron_Giant
04-26-12, 12:28 PM
"page not found"

this one works

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

Just read the same article on Yahoo, seems to put a BIG hole in the racist theory.

First they called him white (which he is not, he is Hispanic...), now we find out he does has some Black Blood in him. And that he is use to having a very mixed set of races around him, then he opens a business with a Black Friend. He has neighbors also have mixed backgrounds.

So, the media has gotten the Race Card wrong and changed part of the 911 call to make him sound racist, when will the masses learn not to trust what they say.

Not only did he make a lot of calls to 911, but so did his neighbors (Black, White, Hispanic...)...the facts change the slant against Z. There were many more neighbors afraid for their lives and property.

The media loved the ratings boast, I for one turn the channel when NBC has anything to announce about the case. Most of the time I go to FOX/CNN to get my news now, I feel when I compare both sites I get the news "fare and balanced".

I want justice served, not emotional "Street Justice" like some have called for.

General Zod
04-26-12, 01:19 PM
I want justice served, not emotional "Street Justice" like some have called for.

What?!?! How come you aren't calling for revenge against this white, racist, fat, want-to-be-cop? You mean you form your own opinions based on real information? I laugh at you!!

Furthermore you are supposed to continue to assume Zimmerman is lying based on.. well.. based on absolutely nothing. AND you are supposed to assume Martin was as pure as the driven snow and would never have attacked Zimmerman as Zimmerman alleges - because we all know druggie losers on suspension from school for the third time would NEVER do something stupid like attack someone just for following them around.

It will be interesting to see if this case ever winds up going to a jury.

wmansir
04-26-12, 02:16 PM
Everything about the recent crime spree at the gated community is interesting but they could have left out everything else. Who cares that he was an altar boy or that he used to polish his boots?

I skimmed over much of the family history stuff. I do wish they had gone into a little more detail on his past arrest and the mutual restraining orders he and an ex-gf filed. There was also a story about him being fired as a bouncer for being too aggressive which wasn't mentioned at all.

Me007gold
04-26-12, 03:12 PM
It doesn't even tell us what kind of candy Zimmerman likes to eat. :mad:

Honestly, there is some really good info in that article, but it doesn't enlighten us in any way about the actual altercation that took place.

Its obviously "Carlos V - White Chocolate"

Giantrobo
04-26-12, 03:37 PM
The article, still doesn't tell me what happened the night Martin was killed. It doesn't change the fact that Zimmerman fucked up that night...

Me007gold
04-26-12, 03:52 PM
The article, still doesn't tell me what happened the night Martin was killed. It doesn't change the fact that Zimmerman fucked up that night...

No article is going to tell you what happened that night. There are only two people that know, one of them is dead, and you don't believe the other one.

Giantrobo
04-26-12, 03:58 PM
No article is going to tell you what happened that night. There are only two people that know, one of them is dead, and you don't believe the other one.

Glad you noticed. So that makes me wonder what's the point of the article...

wishbone
04-26-12, 04:05 PM
Glad you noticed. So that makes me wonder what's the point of the article...We learned that the police recommended getting a dog because they are unable to protect this neighborhood.

Th0r S1mpson
04-26-12, 04:18 PM
No article is going to tell you what happened that night. There are only two people that know, one of them is dead, and you don't believe the other one.

Glad you noticed. So that makes me wonder what's the point of the <s>article</s> trial...

Fixed.

Giantrobo
04-26-12, 04:19 PM
We learned that the police recommended getting a dog because they are unable to protect this neighborhood.

Sounds like it...

Raul3
04-26-12, 04:42 PM
Holy shit he looks mexican now!

Giantrobo
04-26-12, 04:55 PM
No article is going to tell you what happened that night. There are only two people that know, one of them is dead, and you don't believe the other one.

So...

-Zimmerman fed poor Black kids in slums and gave up a Kidney to a Black kid on his death bed...then he eventually shot and killed one.

-Zimmerman has some Black blood*...and then shot and killed a kid who happened to be Black.


It's a "puff piece" designed to make a fuck up who killed a kid look like an Angel.



*Btw, got news for you White people reading this...YOU ALL HAVE SOME BLACK BLOOD....it only takes one drop. Neo-Negros unite!!! :lol:

Me007gold
04-26-12, 05:09 PM
So...

-Zimmerman fed poor Black kids in slums and gave up a Kidney to a Black kid on his death bed...then he eventually shot and killed one.

-Zimmerman has some Black blood*...and then shot and killed a kid who happened to be Black.


It's a "puff piece" designed to make a fuck up who killed a kid look like an Angel.



*Btw, got news for you White people reading this...YOU ALL HAVE SOME BLACK BLOOD....it only takes one drop. Neo-Negros unite!!! :lol:


Not sure why that was directed at me, but any ways. So your saying its okay when one side lets out biased info, but when the other side dose it, it's wrong?

Th0r S1mpson
04-26-12, 05:32 PM
It's better if we make uninformed judgments than informed ones. White mexican shot black kid. Not hard to tell he is a liar. No more information please.

Giantrobo
04-26-12, 05:45 PM
Not sure why that was directed at me, but any ways. So your saying its okay when one side lets out biased info, but when the other side dose it, it's wrong?


Its' directed at all the guys in here all creaming themselves because we got some puff piece making Zimmerman look like an Angel. It does NOTHING to take way from what happened that night.

You guys are still smarting from all the Martin baby pics. :rolleyes:

Giantrobo
04-26-12, 05:47 PM
It's better if we make uninformed judgments than informed ones. White mexican shot black kid. Not hard to tell he is a liar. No more information please.

How did the article inform you of anything other than Zimmerman's being even more of a Mutt than we already knew? Shit, you yourself noted that it didn't say anything about what happened that night.

Th0r S1mpson
04-26-12, 05:50 PM
It informed me about a lot of things that I didn't know, including why Zimmerman purchased a gun. It didn't tell us what happened that night. It paints a picture of Zimmerman based on actual facts rather than speculation, so that is a benefit. Interpretation of those facts may of course vary. But more information is a good thing. I'd be interested in more information about Trayvon as well.

I'm curious what information could come to light that would cause you to change your mind on the situation. If information did come out to show that Trayvon did sneak up on Zimmerman and bash him in the head first, told him he was going to die, and tried to take the gun away, would you switch "sides" on this issue or still blame the whole thing on Zimmerman getting out of his car?

Dave99
04-26-12, 05:57 PM
Its' directed at all the guys in here all creaming themselves because we got some puff piece making Zimmerman look like an Angel. It does NOTHING to take way from what happened that night.

You guys are still smarting from all the Martin baby pics. :rolleyes:

Doesn't make him an angel. It makes him someone who appears to be concerned about his family, his neighbors and his neighborhood. It also paints a picture that it's pretty damn unlikely that zimmerman got out of his car thinking he was gonna go cap some black kid because he was fed up with them.

brayzie
04-26-12, 06:49 PM
Glad you noticed. So that makes me wonder what's the point of the article...

I think the point was to offer a more balanced look into George Zimmerman's background.

Initially I just heard he was white racist, called police 46 times in 15 months, charged with domestic violence, and attacked police. Then there was the audio tape where he allegedly says "he looks suspicious. he's black," "f------ c---..." etc.

I'm one of the people who thinks he should have been arrested right away based on him killing someone who was unarmed, and apparantly, not having been breaking any laws.

But so far, it seems that the media helped pushed the idea that this was racially motivated, and that seems to be in question.

Also, what's with using a derogatory term like mutt?

Marc Brobard
04-26-12, 07:47 PM
Yes, Giantrobo, because knowledge of a person's past is completely useless in determining how he acted at a particular point. Each and every action we take is in no way dependent upon actions taken in the past. Each day is a new day. It's great to be alive!

Bullshit.

DVD Polizei
04-26-12, 08:29 PM
I want justice served, not emotional "Street Justice" like some have called for.

This isn't even Street Justice. It's racial hatred.

Street Justice implies there is at least some competency here.

Zimmerman looked White so he was automatically GUILTY by particular people who should have been more in touch with their own historical roots to know better. We had these people say things that White Skinheads would say if a Black man was accused of beating up a "poor innocent White child" in Northern Idaho.

Then the Media took the side of the more Politically Correct, and enabled these racist people to continue their accusations worldwide.

If this was a "White victim" and a Black assailant, I assure you that White Family wouldn't have the Media Carte Blanche Card.

We need call these fuckers out on their bullshit and make them responsible.

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 12:08 AM
It informed me about a lot of things that I didn't know, including why Zimmerman purchased a gun. It didn't tell us what happened that night. It paints a picture of Zimmerman based on actual facts rather than speculation, so that is a benefit. Interpretation of those facts may of course vary. But more information is a good thing. I'd be interested in more information about Trayvon as well.


But none of this tells us what happened that night and him being more "balanced" doesn't mean he didn't make mistakes that night that led to Martin's death.



I'm curious what information could come to light that would cause you to change your mind on the situation. If information did come out to show that Trayvon did sneak up on Zimmerman and bash him in the head first, told him he was going to die, and tried to take the gun away, would you switch "sides" on this issue or still blame the whole thing on Zimmerman getting out of his car?

If a credible witness or video comes out that clearly shows Martin was the attacker, I -might- switch sides. But that's not going to happen so I'm not to worried. Either way, I would still blame Zimmerman for not staying in his car. It's harsh, but it's where I stand on this.

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 12:13 AM
Doesn't make him an angel. It makes him someone who appears to be concerned about his family, his neighbors and his neighborhood.

Hey, a few pages back I even said he apparently cared for his family and neighborhood. That said, even someone who cares can FUCK UP and get someone killed.


It also paints a picture that it's pretty damn unlikely that zimmerman got out of his car thinking he was gonna go cap some black kid because he was fed up with them.

You needed an article to tell you that? Hell, even I knew that. Again, I said it many pages ago...I don't believe Zimmerman was out to get a Black kid killed. That said I believe he gout out of his car because he didn't want "them" to get away "again". That much we can hear in the 911 call. And it doesn't take away from Zimmerman's making some stupid mistakes that night.

Oh yeah, Martin was stupid for being where he shouldn't have been......that being anywhere near the gun toting Zimmerman.

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 12:20 AM
I think the point was to offer a more balanced look into George Zimmerman's background.

Initially I just heard he was white racist, called police 46 times in 15 months, charged with domestic violence, and attacked police. Then there was the audio tape where he allegedly says "he looks suspicious. he's black," "f------ c---..." etc.

I heard the same things AND NEVER fell for the Racist out to kill a Black kid bit. I even said early on that it didn't seem like race was an issue here.


I'm one of the people who thinks he should have been arrested right away based on him killing someone who was unarmed, and apparantly, not having been breaking any laws.

You still should be. Nothing here shows that Martin did anything illegal....



But so far, it seems that the media helped pushed the idea that this was racially motivated, and that seems to be in question.

Again....the media is the media. Think for YOURSELF.



Also, what's with using a derogatory term like mutt?

Sweety, WE ARE ALL MUTTS. No one reading this is "pure". :lol: I'm sure if you broke down my DNA you'd see I'm as much a MUTT as Zimmerman. I mean hey, He's got an "Afro-Peruvian" Grandaddy right? :rolleyes:It was not anymore derogatory than calling the dead kid Trayvon Martin a "Loser" or "thug".

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 12:29 AM
This isn't even Street Justice. It's racial hatred.

Street Justice implies there is at least some competency here.

Zimmerman looked White so he was automatically GUILTY by particular people who should have been more in touch with their own historical roots to know better. We had these people say things that White Skinheads would say if a Black man was accused of beating up a "poor innocent White child" in Northern Idaho.


Well, you have a point. Especially when people saw that this "White looking" young man was NOT arrested after killing Martin until people started raising hell about it. Many out there, not me, but many.... assumed it was the same Good ole American Systematic Racism/Privilege that was at play here.




Then the Media took the side of the more Politically Correct, and enabled these racist people to continue their accusations worldwide.

If this was a "White victim" and a Black assailant, I assure you that White Family wouldn't have the Media Carte Blanche Card.

We need call these fuckers out on their bullshit and make them responsible.


Call them out, OR...don't fall for their BULLSHIT in the first place. Either one works....


That said, If it were a White Victim...since you, the self proclaimed "Race Card Fighter", is in fact throwing out the race card here...the Black Killer would've never been let go the night of the killing. You know it's true, I know it's true, and even Pat Buchanan knows it's true.

Nugent
04-27-12, 01:48 AM
That said, If it were a White Victim...since you, the self proclaimed "Race Card Fighter", is in fact throwing out the race card here...the Black Killer would've never been let go the night of the killing. You know it's true, I know it's true, and even Pat Buchanan knows it's true.

You mean like the 22 year old cowardice piece of shit that shot and killed the
unarmed white Hispanic guy at the Taco Bell in Phoenix the first of April?
:rolleyes:

The one that STILL hasn't been arrested or even named in public?

The one that claimed the victim had a pipe when in fact he had a dog on a leash.

You mean a "Black Killer" like that? :confused:

brayzie
04-27-12, 02:19 AM
I heard the same things AND NEVER fell for the Racist out to kill a Black kid bit. I even said early on that it didn't seem like race was an issue here.
That's good, but the article is not just for Giantrobo.




Again....the media is the media. Think for YOURSELF.
Of course. So why complain about the reuters article?



Sweety, WE ARE ALL MUTTS. No one reading this is "pure". :lol: I'm sure if you broke down my DNA you'd see I'm as much a MUTT as Zimmerman. I mean hey, He's got an "Afro-Peruvian Grandaddy right? :rolleyes:It was not anymore derogatory than calling the dead kid Trayvon Martin a "Loser" or "thug".

Mutt is a derogatory word for people of mixed ethnicity. You using it insults an entire group. And I would have commented as well if someone had referred to Trayvon's ethnicity with a derogatory term.

SkullOrchard
04-27-12, 02:37 AM
For me, mutt is a term of endearment. The best dogs I've ever owned were mutts.

Ethnically speaking, I'm a mutt and damn proud of it.

RichC2
04-27-12, 11:11 AM
For me, mutt is a term of endearment. The best dogs I've ever owned were mutts.

Ethnically speaking, I'm a mutt and damn proud of it.

I've never heard of someone being offended for being called a mutt :shrug: I use it to describe myself regularly.

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 11:25 AM
You mean like the 22 year old cowardice piece of shit that shot and killed the
unarmed white Hispanic guy at the Taco Bell in Phoenix the first of April?
:rolleyes:

The one that STILL hasn't been arrested or even named in public?

The one that claimed the victim had a pipe when in fact he had a dog on a leash.

You mean a "Black Killer" like that? :confused:

Go back and read my comments on that case. I'm pretty consistent. I DON'T believe that guy and he should be in JAIL too. Also go read Pat Buchanan's article posted in this thread. He agrees that if the races were reversed it would be as I've said.

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 11:35 AM
That's good, but the article is not just for Giantrobo.

True. It's to give "Team Zimmerman" something to feel good about. All they care about is their gun rights, as do I. But they don't want to face the fact that someone may have had gun rights, but still fucked up and killed a kid when he could have avoided doing so. I've faced the fact that there's a chance Martin -may- have attacked Zimmerman first, even though I've seen NO EVIDENCE to support this.



Of course. So why complain about the reuters article?

No problems with the article per se. It is what it is. A puff peice to make Zimmerman look Angelic. My problem is with "Team Zimmerman" thinking the case is closed since Zimmerman did one or two "good things" and suddenly has an "Afro-Peruvian" granddaddy before killing Martin. I'm sure Martin did some good things too, and has some "White Blood" in him too. At least he did before he was killed...and his blood ran out into the courtyard.



Mutt is a derogatory word for people of mixed ethnicity. You using it insults an entire group. And I would have commented as well if someone had referred to Trayvon's ethnicity with a derogatory term.


Again, WE ARE ALL OF MIXED HERITAGE. It's not derogatory.

As far at Trayvon, I've seen him called all manner of Derogatory name. From "Loser" and "thug" and other words on this site... to "Ni****" and other racist terms all over the net.

Th0r S1mpson
04-27-12, 11:45 AM
Interesting that Zimmerman may not have had a gun that night if it weren't for an aggressive dog.

cpgator
04-27-12, 11:45 AM
Go back and read my comments on that case. I'm pretty consistent. I DON'T believe that guy and he should be in JAIL too. Also go read Pat Buchanan's article posted in this thread. He agrees that if the races were reversed it would be as I've said.

Wrong or right, when have you ever cared before about what Pat Buchanan has said about anything? When is the last time anyone has cared about what he has said?

His personal options on this, and anything else, mean nothing.

Jaymole
04-27-12, 12:58 PM
Wrong or right, when have you ever cared before about what Pat Buchanan has said about anything? When is the last time anyone has cared about what he has said?

His personal options on this, and anything else, mean nothing.

When Pat Buchanan is being quoted as backup, then I know it is time to leave this thread :D

cungar
04-27-12, 01:04 PM
For me, mutt is a term of endearment. The best dogs I've ever owned were mutts.

Ethnically speaking, I'm a mutt and damn proud of it.

Damn right. Rather be a mutt than an inbred.

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 02:14 PM
Interesting that Zimmerman may not have had a gun that night if it weren't for an aggressive dog.

Had Zimmerman killed a dog....he would never have been released. He would also not be the Hero some are trying to make him out to be.

wishbone
04-27-12, 02:24 PM
The first time the dog ran free and cornered Shellie in their gated community in Sanford, Florida, George called the owner to complain. The second time, Big Boi frightened his mother-in-law's dog. Zimmerman called Seminole County Animal Services and bought pepper spray. The third time he saw the dog on the loose, he called again.Had Zimmerman shot a dog his neighbors would be more likely speak on his behalf without fear of backlash about such an issue.

Franchot
04-27-12, 02:32 PM
Had Zimmerman killed a dog....he would never have been released.

You can't seriously believe that.

(Step back and take a break until the more rational-thinking Giantrobo returns.)

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 02:55 PM
Wrong or right, when have you ever cared before about what Pat Buchanan has said about anything? When is the last time anyone has cared about what he has said?

His personal options on this, and anything else, mean nothing.

You don't know what I've cared about concerning PB.

Also, the fact that a man who seems to be no friend of Minorities can come out and say that says a lot whether you or I care about what he says or not....

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 02:55 PM
When Pat Buchanan is being quoted as backup, then I know it is time to leave this thread :D

See ya. :D

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 02:56 PM
You actually make me want to join Team Zimmerman

;)

Really? Because unlike the Media...I'm not telling you how to think. :p:lol:

Me007gold
04-27-12, 03:00 PM
Really? Because unlike the Media...I'm not telling you how to think. :p:lol:

The media(well most of it) is trying to tell us hes guilty.

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 03:01 PM
You can't seriously believe that.

(Step back and take a break until the more rational-thinking Giantrobo returns.)

Please. Don't be in denial Franchot. You know it's true.

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 03:02 PM
The media(well most of it) is trying to tell us hes guilty.

So what? Part of the media and some of the Net is trying to tell me he's innocent. I'm not falling for it. Neither should you if you feel he's not guilty. ;)

Graftenberg
04-27-12, 03:31 PM
As far at Trayvon, I've seen him called all manner of Derogatory name. From "Loser" and "thug" and other words on this site... to "Ni****" and other racist terms all over the net.

And yet he calls himself an n-word on his twitter account.

Th0r S1mpson
04-27-12, 03:49 PM
And yet he calls himself an n-word on his twitter account.

Completely different. Black people are allowed to call one another the N-word and kill each other without outrage, but nobody else should.

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 03:52 PM
And yet he calls himself an n-word on his twitter account.


Yep. :lol: So what?

cpgator
04-27-12, 03:54 PM
And yet he calls himself an n-word on his twitter account.

Big difference.

arminius
04-27-12, 03:56 PM
Big difference.

No, I think it's the same difference.

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 03:57 PM
Completely different. Black people are allowed to call one another the N-word

You sound like you're going to cry if you don't get the right to call Blacks the N-word. Don't worry what others are doing to themselves. Worry about your own house.


and kill each other without outrage, but nobody else should.

Again, worry about your own house. I don't see Whites crying about White on White Crime when it happens. Yet, based on posts earlier in this thread, it happens MORE than White on Black and maybe even Black on White. People tend to kill their own and who live near them. BTW, Blacks don't try to tell Whites how to deal with White on White crimes so why do you feel the need to tell us how to handle Black on Black crimes? Is it WHITE PRIVILEGE? The need to tell others how to live their lives and handle their business?

How does Black on Black Crime affect you personally? I'll bet it probably doesn't....

Rockmjd23
04-27-12, 04:02 PM
I don't see Whites crying about White on White Crime when it happens.

Only if there's an attractive white woman involved.

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 04:04 PM
Only if there's an attractive white woman involved.

:lol: I only need to tune into Fox News to see who the latest missing pretty white girl is this week.

Rockmjd23
04-27-12, 04:08 PM
How does Black on Black Crime affect you personally? I'll bet it probably doesn't....
Does any crime affect you unless it involves you or someone you know?

SkullOrchard
04-27-12, 04:25 PM
For me, it's rather simple.

If you shoot and kill someone, the person you killed damn well better be guilty of doing something that any halfway reasonable person would agree was worthy of the death penalty.

I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that this killing was even remotely justified.

Th0r S1mpson
04-27-12, 04:30 PM
If you shoot and kill someone, the person you killed damn well better be guilty of doing something that any halfway reasonable person would agree was worthy of the death penalty.

Yeah, that works really well for defense. Wait until they kill you, THEN you pull your gun out.

Trevor
04-27-12, 04:33 PM
For me, it's rather simple.

If you shoot and kill someone, the person you killed damn well better be guilty of doing something that any halfway reasonable person would agree was worthy of the death penalty.

I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that this killing was even remotely justified.
:confused: The only possible reason here is self defense.

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 04:37 PM
Does any crime affect you unless it involves you or someone you know?

Good point. I stated earlier how this case affects me personally.

Minor Threat
04-27-12, 04:43 PM
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/rur6lklk0kq0i8savunm1a.gif

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 04:46 PM
Yeah, that works really well for defense. Wait until they kill you, THEN you pull your gun out.


Well...if Zimmerman had stayed in his car and allowed Sanford PD to do their jobs......

I noticed in the puff article, Zimmerman did stay in his car during another 911 call. Obviously he was frustrated with SPD and thought he could do a better job on the night Martin was killed.

I wonder if staying in his car on the other call was pre gun purchase or post....

cpgator
04-27-12, 04:46 PM
For me, it's rather simple.

If you shoot and kill someone, the person you killed damn well better be guilty of doing something that any halfway reasonable person would agree was worthy of the death penalty.

Yea, that makes no sense. At what point should someone be allowed to shot an intruder in their home?

Save Ferris
04-27-12, 05:05 PM
...I don't see Whites crying about White on White Crime when it happens. Yet, based on posts earlier in this thread, it happens MORE than White on Black and maybe even Black on White. People tend to kill their own and who live near them. BTW, Blacks don't try to tell Whites how to deal with White on White crimes so why do you feel the need to tell us how to handle Black on Black crimes? Is it WHITE PRIVILEGE? The need to tell others how to live their lives and handle their business?

Crazy mad white people were all the rage this year, did you not notice?

http://i49.tinypic.com/2dlp668.jpg
http://oi48.tinypic.com/2m6js4l.jpg

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 05:08 PM
Yea, that makes no sense. At what point should someone be allowed to shot an intruder in their home?

Was Martin in Zimmerman's home? Because if that were the case I would be 100% in agreement with the Pro-Zimmerman folks on this. Since I believe one should be able to defend themselves. But since he wasn't....

Me007gold
04-27-12, 05:09 PM
Well...if Zimmerman had stayed in his car and allowed Sanford PD to do their jobs......



If Martin would not have been suspended from school, and had to go stay with his father this would not have happened either. So whats your point? They both made bad decisions, and you are making the same post over and over and over again.

DVD Polizei
04-27-12, 05:27 PM
Was Martin in Zimmerman's home? Because if that were the case I would be 100% in agreement with the Pro-Zimmerman folks on this. Since I believe one should be able to defend themselves. But since he wasn't....

You sure about that? I wouldn't assume just because Zimmerman shot Martin in his own home, that he would be justified. Unless you're willing to be consistent and acknowledge Martin was beating the crap outta Zimmerman. And if this is the case, then why would Zimmerman need to be in his home, having the shit kicked outta him, in order for him to be justified to fight back? Maybe I'm not understanding your argument, but I would think you have the right to defend yourself from bodily harm and respond with deadly force even outside your home.

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 05:35 PM
If Martin would not have been suspended from school, and had to go stay with his father this would not have happened either. So whats your point? They both made bad decisions, and you are making the same post over and over and over again.


So getting suspended makes it "ok" to shoot Martin? I know you don't want to hear that, but it's what you're saying.

I acknowledge Martin's bad decisions. Though my pointing out of Zimmerman's bad decisions are DIRECTLY related to things done/not down that night Martin was killed.

Me007gold
04-27-12, 05:38 PM
So getting suspended makes it "ok" to shoot Martin? I know you don't want to hear that, but it's what you're saying.

I acknowledge Martin's bad decisions. Though my pointing out of Zimmerman's bad decisions are DIRECTLY related to things done/not down that night Martin was killed.

Again, I didnt say that, it may be what you want to hear. What I was saying is, IF he didnt get suspended, he would not have had to go live with his dad, and he would not have been in that spot that night. Martin getting suspended DIRECTLY to the events that night.

You sure about that? I wouldn't assume just because Zimmerman shot Martin in his own home, that he would be justified. Unless you're willing to be consistent and acknowledge Martin was beating the crap outta Zimmerman. And if this is the case, then why would Zimmerman need to be in his home, having the shit kicked outta him, in order for him to be justified to fight back? Maybe I'm not understanding your argument, but I would think you have the right to defend yourself from bodily harm and respond with deadly force even outside your home.

You dont have the right to defend your self, when your actions led to you getting your head crushed, right Robo?

Th0r S1mpson
04-27-12, 05:56 PM
Well...if Zimmerman had stayed in his car and allowed Sanford PD to do their jobs......

I noticed in the puff article, Zimmerman did stay in his car during another 911 call. Obviously he was frustrated with SPD and thought he could do a better job on the night Martin was killed.

I wonder if staying in his car on the other call was pre gun purchase or post....

I don't think he thought he could do a better job than the Police. He just knew it would take them a while to get there, based on experience.

If I recall correctly, he'd had the gun for around a year (after the dog thing) and the other incident was just a few weeks or so prior to Trayvon being shot. So he definitely owned a gun at the time when he stayed in his car. Don't know if he had it on him. He stayed in the car that time as people said he should, and the guy was gone before the cops arrived. Which explains his comment about "these guys always getting away" pretty clearly, and why he wanted to follow until police arrived. These events were very close together and more homes had been robbed in the meantime. It's really not that hard to imagine why someone would want to keep an eye on someone they find suspicious in those circumstances. Logic would lead you to believe that if they get away, more houses would be robbed, because it had happened prior. So there was nothing wrong with getting out of your car. There's really not. If he planned to keep his distance. The cops were on the way, he should be alright in that situation.

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 05:57 PM
You sure about that? I wouldn't assume just because Zimmerman shot Martin in his own home, that he would be justified.

I would HOPE that Zimmerman would be justified both legally and in the court of public OPINION. -IF- Martin had posed a threat while breaking into Zimmerman's home. But since that's not what happened....


Unless you're willing to be consistent and acknowledge Martin was beating the crap outta Zimmerman. And if this is the case, then why would Zimmerman need to be in his home, having the shit kicked outta him, in order for him to be justified to fight back? Maybe I'm not understanding your argument, but I would think you have the right to defend yourself from bodily harm and respond with deadly force even outside your home.


I do acknowledge that Martin was probably beating the shit out of Zimmerman. Where you and I part ways is -Why- Martin was beating the shit out of Zimmerman.

You say he attacked Zimmerman. I say Zimmerman attacked him and probably pulled his gun. Neither one of us can prove our points. Neither of us has seen any REAL evidence that shows who attacked first. All we have is Zimmerman's word and personally I have no more reason to believe Zimmerman because he's trying to cover his ass.

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 06:09 PM
Again, I didnt say that, it may be what you want to hear. What I was saying is, IF he didnt get suspended, he would not have had to go live with his dad, and he would not have been in that spot that night. Martin getting suspended DIRECTLY to the events that night.


Again, MY point is that the action that caused Martin's death happened that night. Not in the weeks past. Going by your take, at some point we'd have to blame Martin's Grandparents for having kids....



You dont have the right to defend your self, when your actions led to you getting your head crushed, right Robo?


:lol: I do believe one has the right to defend if in danger. My problems with Zimmerman is that he's a fuckin' liar. He -may- have been getting his head crushed because he was a THREAT to Martin. I know it's hard for you guys to see that but it's ok.

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 06:21 PM
I don't think he thought he could do a better job than the Police. He just knew it would take them a while to get there, based on experience.


Maybe, maybe not. But he at least went a bit too far at some point. If he had stayed in his car Martin probably would never have crossed paths with this man and he'd be alive today.




If I recall correctly, he'd had the gun for around a year (after the dog thing) and the other incident was just a few weeks or so prior to Trayvon being shot. So he definitely owned a gun at the time when he stayed in his car. Don't know if he had it on him. He stayed in the car that time as people said he should, and the guy was gone before the cops arrived. <b>Which explains his comment about "these guys always getting away" pretty clearly, and why he wanted to follow until police arrived. </b>

I totally get that... And in my opinion his overzealous behavior got Martin killed. it was legal, but not well thought out. He should've let the cops handle things.



These events were very close together and more homes had been robbed in the meantime. It's really not that hard to imagine why someone would want to keep an eye on someone they find suspicious in those circumstances. Logic would lead you to believe that if they get away, more houses would be robbed, because it had happened prior. So there was nothing wrong with getting out of your car. There's really not. If he planned to keep his distance. The cops were on the way, he should be alright in that situation.


I get this too. But again, he should have left it to the cops. Are cops perfect? No. Are they always there in time to catch their man/woman. No.

But they're the ones we pay to confront and arrest perps and kill them if necessary.

mhg83
04-27-12, 06:21 PM
So getting suspended makes it "ok" to shoot Martin? I know you don't want to hear that, but it's what you're saying.

.

And getting out of his car gave Martin the right to beat the shit out of Zimmerman?!

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 06:25 PM
And getting out of his car gave Martin the right to beat the shit out of Zimmerman?!

Sure. If based on the logic of Zimmerman supporters. That being, it doesn't matter what was done before hand, once an attack occurred one has a right to defend himself...then yes. That's going on MY theory that Zimmerman was the initial aggressor. We DO know Zimmerman had the gun and Martin did not... Zimmerman was a significantly larger threat than Martin was.

YOU HAVE NO PROOF THAT MARTIN ATTACKED FIRST. And I admit that I HAVE NO PROOF ZIMMERMAN ATTACKED FIRST. So we are both speculating.

Raul3
04-27-12, 06:52 PM
I can't believe Z's website raised $200K! And in how many days?


That's just wrong! And I say that as a "white" Hispanic :lol:


(Actually that's what we put in the census form).

DVD Polizei
04-27-12, 09:07 PM
I can only imagine how much Zimmerman will make once this trial is over and he gets on the media exploitation bandwagon.

Formerly known as missflores
04-27-12, 09:31 PM
Go back and read my comments on that case. I'm pretty consistent. I DON'T believe that guy and he should be in JAIL too. Also go read Pat Buchanan's article posted in this thread. He agrees that if the races were reversed it would be as I've said.

re: White Hispanic shot at Taco Bell

I dont think the poster was saying your opinion on that case was inconsistent with your opinion on the Martin Case. The point of bringing that case up is to point out that there is no need to speculate what would happen if the races were reverse. Here we have an actual case with the races reverse and we can see what really ended up happening.

Formerly known as missflores
04-27-12, 09:33 PM
I can't believe Z's website raised $200K! And in how many days?


That's just wrong! And I say that as a "white" Hispanic :lol:


(Actually that's what we put in the census form).

I thought he would raise about 20k.

200k is crazy!

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 09:37 PM
re: White Hispanic shot at Taco Bell

I dont think the poster was saying your opinion on that case was inconsistent with your opinion on the Martin Case. The point of bringing that case up is to point out that there is no need to speculate what would happen if the races were reverse. Here we have an actual case with the races reverse and we can see what really ended up happening.

Ok, maybe.

But it's one case. And I'd bet that statistically a Black person being out after being involved in a killing isn't the "norm".

Giantrobo
04-27-12, 09:39 PM
I can't believe Z's website raised $200K! And in how many days?


That's just wrong! And I say that as a "white" Hispanic :lol:


(Actually that's what we put in the census form).


Yeah, well the court doesn't seem happy that he didn't divulge that little bit of info. Wasn't his family claiming poverty when the bail issues were being discussed?

Nugent
04-27-12, 09:57 PM
Ok, maybe.

But it's one case. And I'd bet that statistically a Black person being out after being involved in a killing isn't the "norm".


That said, If it were a White Victim...since you, the self proclaimed "Race Card Fighter", is in fact throwing out the race card here...the Black Killer would've never been let go the night of the killing. You know it's true, I know it's true, and even Pat Buchanan knows it's true.

Yeah, the point seemed pretty clear. You said it wouldn't happen when it has, and is happening right now.

Giantrobo
04-28-12, 12:14 AM
Yeah, the point seemed pretty clear. You said it wouldn't happen when it has, and is happening right now.


Your point is about one case. Like I said, I'll bet it's not the norm.

If you can prove otherwise I'll be glad to to give you that.

Marc Brobard
04-28-12, 01:44 AM
Christ, stop talking about speculating, and stop speculating.

This conversation is obviously above your comfort level.

Philzilla
04-28-12, 12:03 PM
How about this, don't bring a fist to a gun fight.
A lesson we should all learn.

Giantrobo
04-28-12, 01:17 PM
How about this, don't bring a fist to a gun fight.
A lesson we should all learn.

Maybe you're right. I kinda wish Martin had been packing heat just like Zimmerman...

Th0r S1mpson
04-28-12, 01:21 PM
I get this too. But again, he should have left it to the cops.

I agree. I'd be willing to bet that Zimmerman agrees as well. That doesn't mean he committed a crime that night. That really wasn't the cause of this.

The cause of this tragic event was violence. You might think Zimmerman started it, some might think Martin did. But that was the cause. Not what preceded it.

Artman
04-29-12, 02:01 PM
I can't believe Z's website raised $200K! And in how many days?


That's just wrong!

The question for everyone is - can someone give to Z's fund for any legitimate reason other than being a closeted racist? I could see the gun rights lobbyists, friends & family, or anyone just wanting to stick it to the media.

Could the Martin's start one? I bet they'd raise a lot more money. Personally I wouldn't feel comfortable giving to either of em.

General Zod
04-29-12, 03:13 PM
The question for everyone is - can someone give to Z's fund for any legitimate reason other than being a closeted racist? I could see the gun rights lobbyists, friends & family, or anyone just wanting to stick it to the media.

Could the Martin's start one? I bet they'd raise a lot more money. Personally I wouldn't feel comfortable giving to either of em.

I know it's been a ton of fun injecting racism into this whole thing even though there's been absolutely no evidence at all that racism was actually involved but since it's really all the Martin folks have left I guess they have to keep pushing it and hope some fools fall for it. So, having said that, perhaps people have donated to him because they feel he was wrongly charged and they want to help him defend himself?

And according to this article they do have donations going for the Martin family but they've only raised half as much.. http://articles.cnn.com/2012-04-27/justice/justice_florida-zimmerman-money_1_judge-delays-decision-website-gag-order/2?_s=PM:JUSTICE

Rockmjd23
04-29-12, 03:19 PM
Has the President 'recalibrated' his words about the incident yet?

SkullOrchard
04-30-12, 09:55 AM
Yea, that makes no sense. At what point should someone be allowed to shot an intruder in their home?
Was Martin in Zimmerman's home? No. If he had been, I would have fully supported Zimmerman's right to shoot and kill Martin.

A person should be able to walk down the damn street without being stalked, provoked, and killed.

cpgator
04-30-12, 10:08 AM
Was Martin in Zimmerman's home? No. If he had been, I would have fully supported Zimmerman's right to shoot and kill Martin.

A person should be able to walk down the damn street without being stalked, provoked, and killed.

No, he of course wasn't in Z's home. I was referring to your eariler post:

For me, it's rather simple.

If you shoot and kill someone, the person you killed damn well better be guilty of doing something that any halfway reasonable person would agree was worthy of the death penalty.

I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that this killing was even remotely justified.

You seem to be implying that you should only be allowed to shoot someone who is 'worthy of the death penalty'. Maybe i am just not sure what you meant by that. Is a burglar 'worthy of the death penalty'?

SkullOrchard
04-30-12, 10:48 AM
No, he of course wasn't in Z's home. I was referring to your eariler post:



You seem to be implying that you should only be allowed to shoot someone who is 'worthy of the death penalty'. Maybe i am just not sure what you meant by that. Is a burglar 'worthy of the death penalty'?

When I say 'death penalty', I'm speaking figuratively, not literally.

But, dead is dead.

From what I've seen, Zimmerman took it upon himself to act as judge, jury, and executioner.

No one has presented a single shred of evidence to prove that Martin was doing anything that night other than walking down the street and minding his own business.

A person should be allowed to walk down the damn street without being stalked by an overly suspicious gun-toting vigilante with an itchy trigger finger.

cpgator
04-30-12, 10:54 AM
No one has presented a single shred of evidence to prove that Martin was doing anything that night other than walking down the street and minding his own business.

What about the witness that saw M on top of Z, or what about the injuries to Z? Is that not evidence?

Save Ferris
04-30-12, 11:37 AM
The point is, a bit of punching or pounding around the cranium is not worth killing someone over. ESPECIALLY if you deserved a punching or pounding around the cranium for provoking someone.

Most violent people won't attack you unless you provoke them.

Dave99
04-30-12, 12:21 PM
The point is, a bit of punching or pounding around the cranium is not worth killing someone over.


sure it is, if you aren't certain they are going to stop.

Philzilla
04-30-12, 12:31 PM
The point is, a bit of punching or pounding around the cranium is not worth killing someone over. ESPECIALLY if you deserved a punching or pounding around the cranium for provoking someone.

Most violent people won't attack you unless you provoke them.

tell that to Ted Bundy

General Zod
04-30-12, 12:55 PM
sure it is, if you aren't certain they are going to stop.

:up: I guess Zimmerman should have just let Martin kill him since Zimmerman followed him around. I mean that apparently deserved a death sentence but Martin pounding his head into the pavement doesn't. Yeah this line of thinking works really well :lol:

superdeluxe
04-30-12, 01:55 PM
The point is, a bit of punching or pounding around the cranium is not worth killing someone over. ESPECIALLY if you deserved a punching or pounding around the cranium for provoking someone.

Most violent people won't attack you unless you provoke them.

Uhh sure it is. If you feel your life is endanger, people have died from being punched out.

Save Ferris
04-30-12, 02:15 PM
Uhh sure it is. If you feel your life is endanger, people have died from being punched out.

Ok good point--for being a pussy afraid of a punch from a younger lighter teenager Zimmerman may have been worthy of the death penalty.

cungar
04-30-12, 02:16 PM
Uhh sure it is. If you feel your life is endanger, people have died from being punched out.

Interesting take on the phrase in danger.

Dave99
04-30-12, 02:25 PM
Ok good point--for being a pussy afraid of a punch from a younger lighter teenager Zimmerman may have been worthy of the death penalty.

I outweigh manny pacquiao by probably 30-40 pounds. I'm pretty sure he could kill me with just a couple of strikes to my head. And look on youtube for countless examples of smaller & lighter dudes knocking the big fatties out cold in various street fights, it's not that hard. You get your bell rung by 1 good punch and you don't know which way is up, it's not hard to imagine if someone keeps beating on you that you could be seriously injured/killed.

Or just keep trolling, either way is ok.

Giantrobo
04-30-12, 04:51 PM
Or just keep trolling, either way is ok.


....so having a different opinion is now Trolling?

Giantrobo
04-30-12, 04:56 PM
What about the witness that saw M on top of Z, or what about the injuries to Z? Is that not evidence?

What about the witness who saw Zimmerman on top of Martin?

cpgator
04-30-12, 05:45 PM
What about the witness who saw Zimmerman on top of Martin?

That doesn't have anything to do with the post I was replying to.

DVD Polizei
04-30-12, 07:58 PM
What about the witness who saw Zimmerman on top of Martin?

Ok, that just doesn't sound right.

DVD Polizei
04-30-12, 08:17 PM
The point is, a bit of punching or pounding around the cranium is not worth killing someone over. ESPECIALLY if you deserved a punching or pounding around the cranium for provoking someone.

Most violent people won't attack you unless you provoke them.

Most violent people will be up in your face for even looking their way or making a gesture that had absolutely nothing to do with them.

That's why they are labeled..."violent".

I'm guessing you've never been in an all-out fist-fight. Nothing wrong with this, but you have to understand when you have fists being thrown at you, it's like somebody using you for softball practice and you're the rookie, trying to figure out how the guy hits and just where the fuck the hits are coming from--all of this in a split second.

It's not pretty. Those limbs being thrown at you, if landed correctly, can actually kill you, have your eye(s) pop out of your socket(s), break your jaw, knock you out while you're getting your face pummeled into cream cheese, etc.

And then in the end, you get the fortune of being in a wheelchair for the rest of your life, or walking around with a twitch you never can get rid of, or using a cane for one side of your body, or getting plastic surgery because your skeleton couldn't withstand the pressure and it just caved-in.

But let's say, in your circumstance, you're fine being punched. You don't need to use deadly force to stop the opposing force. This is fine. Because this is your choice. However, for others, I'd like them to determine how dangerous of a situation they think they are in, and not anyone else (outside of a judge and jury of course).

Dave99
04-30-12, 08:38 PM
....so having a different opinion is now Trolling?

oh come on, he's saying if someone is beating your head you should just take it if that person is younger & lighter than you. There isn't an ounce of logic in that statement.

Giantrobo
04-30-12, 10:40 PM
Most violent people will be up in your face for even looking their way or making a gesture that had absolutely nothing to do with them.

That's why they are labeled..."violent".

I'm guessing you've never been in an all-out fist-fight. Nothing wrong with this, but you have to understand when you have fists being thrown at you, it's like somebody using you for softball practice and you're the rookie, trying to figure out how the guy hits and just where the fuck the hits are coming from--all of this in a split second.

It's not pretty. Those limbs being thrown at you, if landed correctly, can actually kill you, have your eye(s) pop out of your socket(s), break your jaw, knock you out while you're getting your face pummeled into cream cheese, etc.

And then in the end, you get the fortune of being in a wheelchair for the rest of your life, or walking around with a twitch you never can get rid of, or using a cane for one side of your body, or getting plastic surgery because your skeleton couldn't withstand the pressure and it just caved-in.

But let's say, in your circumstance, you're fine being punched. You don't need to use deadly force to stop the opposing force. This is fine. Because this is your choice. However, for others, I'd like them to determine how dangerous of a situation they think they are in, and not anyone else (outside of a judge and jury of course).



All that is why confronting Perps should be left to trained Law Enforcement and not "Joe Citizen". Maybe if Zimmerman had been "Neighborhood WATCH" and not "Neighborhood Vigilante"....Martin would still be alive.

Giantrobo
04-30-12, 10:43 PM
Ok, that just doesn't sound right.

You're right, it doesn't. Maybe the whole night was an attempted Rape gone bad? Zimmerman was after some young Black Cock/Ass that night and got carried away. :eek:


just kidding of course....

cungar
04-30-12, 10:59 PM
I outweigh manny pacquiao by probably 30-40 pounds. I'm pretty sure he could kill me with just a couple of strikes to my head. And look on youtube for countless examples of smaller & lighter dudes knocking the big fatties out cold in various street fights, it's not that hard. You get your bell rung by 1 good punch and you don't know which way is up, it's not hard to imagine if someone keeps beating on you that you could be seriously injured/killed.

Or just keep trolling, either way is ok.



Now there's a fair argument. Comparing the greatest puncher in the world to a teenage street punk.

grundle
04-30-12, 11:58 PM
http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/trayvon-parody1.jpg?w=640

Artman
05-01-12, 12:23 AM
All that is why confronting Perps should be left to trained Law Enforcement and not "Joe Citizen". Maybe if Zimmerman had been "Neighborhood WATCH" and not "Neighborhood Vigilante"....Martin would still be alive.

But the reality is it's not about who was thinking or looking or following, it's about who physically started the altercation. That's how the law is. Not taking sides, but that's how this should be decided.

Dave99
05-01-12, 07:51 AM
Now there's a fair argument. Comparing the greatest puncher in the world to a teenage street punk.

which is why I said also just look on youtube for dozens upon dozens of real world examples of smaller/younger/lighter dudes pummeling bigger dudes.

Giantrobo
05-01-12, 05:38 PM
But the reality is it's not about who was thinking or looking or following, it's about who physically started the altercation. That's how the law is. Not taking sides, but that's how this should be decided.

How will they ever prove who started it first? This is why Zimmerman will most likely walk in the criminal trial.

Schloob1
05-01-12, 06:29 PM
How will they ever prove who started it first? This is why Zimmerman will most likely walk in the criminal trial.

Yep, which based on the fact the police stated he passed some "tests" during his questioning that night is why they stated they let him go and did not book him in the 1st place. If he sticks to his story from that night/whatnot he almost for certain if this say goes to the jury will be a free man when all is said and done.

DVD Polizei
05-01-12, 07:44 PM
All that is why confronting Perps should be left to trained Law Enforcement and not "Joe Citizen". Maybe if Zimmerman had been "Neighborhood WATCH" and not "Neighborhood Vigilante"....Martin would still be alive.

Well...you do have a point. :)

DVD Polizei
05-01-12, 07:47 PM
Yep, which based on the fact the police stated he passed some "tests" during his questioning that night is why they stated they let him go and did not book him in the 1st place. If he sticks to his story from that night/whatnot he almost for certain if this say goes to the jury will be a free man when all is said and done.

And then everyone who worked for the Sanford PD--who were fired because they were all racist, knuckle-dragging neanderthals, will now be featured on all media networks and scooped-up as CONSULTANTS and ANALYSTS and THE AUTHORITY on self-defense situations.

"But, but, but...", people will ask me, "Why not?"

Ollie North.

That's why.

General Zod
05-01-12, 08:21 PM
How will they ever prove who started it first? This is why Zimmerman will most likely walk in the criminal trial.

They are going for the liar liar pants on fire prosecution.

Me007gold
05-01-12, 09:30 PM
And then everyone who worked for the Sanford PD--who were fired because they were all racist, knuckle-dragging neanderthals, will now be featured on all media networks and scooped-up as CONSULTANTS and ANALYSTS and THE AUTHORITY on self-defense situations.

"But, but, but...", people will ask me, "Why not?"

Ollie North.

That's why.

Wait, So Zimmerman was out looking for Gold, and he knew the Martin was close on the trail as well, so he had to take him out, so he could keep all the gold for him self?

They are going for the liar liar pants on fire prosecution.



Is Zimmerman going to use the Chewbacca defense?

cungar
05-12-12, 04:03 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ydtp212D0_w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Trayvon Martin Gun Range Targets Sell Out in Two Days

By David


A person selling gun range targets modeled after slain Florida teen Trayvon Martin says that their "main motivation was to make money off the controversy."

WKMG's Mike DeForest reported on Friday that the unidentified seller told him that the targets "sold out in 2 days."

"The response is overwhelming," the seller said.

While the item appears to have been removed from GunBroker.com, a cached version of the page was still available at the time of publication.

Photos of the item, which was titled "10 Pack Trayvon Martin Targets," showed crosshairs over a hoodie similar to the one Trayvon Martin was wearing when he was shot by neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman in February. The figure has a bag of Skittle in his pocket and is holding what appears to be a can of iced tea, similar to what Martin had purchased before being gunned down. The pack of 10 targets was being sold for $8.

"Everyone knows the story of Zimmerman and Martin," a description on the targets reads. "Obviously we support Zimmerman and believe he is innocent and that he shot a thug. Each target is printed on thick, high quality poster paper with a matte finish! The dimensions are 12"x18" ( The same as Darkotic Zombie Targets) This is a Ten Pack of Targets."

The seller's ID was listed as "hillerarmco" from Virginia Beach, Virginia. A website by the same name is registered to Hiller Armament Company in Virginia Beach, but the associated phone number had been disconnected.

Zimmerman attorney Mark O'Mara told WKMG that this type of "hatred" just makes his client's defense even more problematic.

"This is the highest level of disgust and the lowest level of civility," O'Mara said. "It's this type of hatred -- that's what this is, it's hate-mongering -- that's going to make it more difficult to try this case."

"I hope there is a crime that we can charge that person who made that with," he added. "I'm not sure what it is, but we need to come up with one because that's disgusting."

arminius
05-12-12, 04:13 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ydtp212D0_w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Trayvon Martin Gun Range Targets Sell Out in Two Days

By David


A person selling gun range targets modeled after slain Florida teen Trayvon Martin says that their "main motivation was to make money off the controversy."

WKMG's Mike DeForest reported on Friday that the unidentified seller told him that the targets "sold out in 2 days."

"The response is overwhelming," the seller said.

While the item appears to have been removed from GunBroker.com, a cached version of the page was still available at the time of publication.

Photos of the item, which was titled "10 Pack Trayvon Martin Targets," showed crosshairs over a hoodie similar to the one Trayvon Martin was wearing when he was shot by neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman in February. The figure has a bag of Skittle in his pocket and is holding what appears to be a can of iced tea, similar to what Martin had purchased before being gunned down. The pack of 10 targets was being sold for $8.

"Everyone knows the story of Zimmerman and Martin," a description on the targets reads. "Obviously we support Zimmerman and believe he is innocent and that he shot a thug. Each target is printed on thick, high quality poster paper with a matte finish! The dimensions are 12"x18" ( The same as Darkotic Zombie Targets) This is a Ten Pack of Targets."

The seller's ID was listed as "hillerarmco" from Virginia Beach, Virginia. A website by the same name is registered to Hiller Armament Company in Virginia Beach, but the associated phone number had been disconnected.

Zimmerman attorney Mark O'Mara told WKMG that this type of "hatred" just makes his client's defense even more problematic.

"This is the highest level of disgust and the lowest level of civility," O'Mara said. "It's this type of hatred -- that's what this is, it's hate-mongering -- that's going to make it more difficult to try this case."

"I hope there is a crime that we can charge that person who made that with," he added. "I'm not sure what it is, but we need to come up with one because that's disgusting."

What the hell, if there is not one lets make one up. Fuck ex-post facto. Aren't we all outraged?

Psi
05-12-12, 04:25 PM
He is busy getting upset at people shooting at a paper target while his client shot dead a person.

Bronkster
05-12-12, 05:03 PM
"I hope there is a crime that we can charge that person who made that with," he added. "I'm not sure what it is, but we need to come up with one because that's disgusting."


A person selling gun range targets modeled after slain Florida teen Trayvon Martin says that their "main motivation was to make money off the controversy."

There's your crime! Blatant capitalism!! Get 'im, boys!!

General Zod
05-12-12, 06:34 PM
:lol: And Obama's website which suddenly starting selling hoodies shortly after Obama's brainy "If I had a son he would look just like Trayvon" comment.. well that was NOT capitalizing on this. It was.. uh... well obviously some more noble cause then we were meant to understand.

However I'm really not comparing to two products. I agree this is disgusting on wrong - it crosses a line. Even for me. But is it a crime? Nah.

Giantrobo
05-15-12, 12:31 PM
Yeah, well, the implication of the Hoodie Target is obvious. You guys have spent much of this thread explaining that the Hoodies are "Thug Wear" frequently worn by Thug Minorities. So when someone makes a target with a Hoodie and someone calls them on the bullshit...You guys suddenly blow it off like it's nothing. :lol:

Graftenberg
05-15-12, 03:39 PM
http://images.wikia.com/unsolvedmysteries/images/3/3c/Unibomber_1.jpg

grundle
05-15-12, 03:41 PM
As a libertarian, I am against the death penalty. I do not have enough confidence in government to trust it with such a thing.

This exposes the hypocrisy and absurdity of "hate crime" laws. Some people who usually oppose the death penalty for murderers are willing to make an exception for a murderer who committed the additional "crime" of being a racist.



http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/fbi-seeks-charge-george-zimmerman-hate-crime/nN5pR/

FBI may charge George Zimmerman with hate crime

May 14, 2012

SANFORD, Fla.

WFTV has learned charges against George Zimmerman could be getting more serious.

State prosecutors said Zimmerman, a neighborhood watchman, profiled and stalked 17-year-old Trayvon Martin before killing him, so the FBI is now looking into charging him with a hate crime.

Zimmerman admitted to killing Martin in February during a confrontation. However, he claims the shooting was in self-defense. He's facing a second-degree murder charge, which carries a maximum possible sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole. But if Zimmerman is charged and found guilty of a federal hate crime involving murder, he could face the death penalty.

FBI investigators are actively questioning witnesses in the retreat at the Twin Lakes neighborhood, seeking evidence for a possible federal hate crime charge.

Martin was unarmed when he was shot to death, police said, and some accuse Zimmerman of targeting the teenager solely because of the color of his skin.

WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said federal prosecutors would have to prove the hate crime to charge Zimmerman, though.

“What the government would have to prove is that Mr. Zimmerman acted out of hatred toward African-Americans. That's why he came into contact with him. That's why he shot and killed him," Sheaffer said.

Sheaffer said a federal hate crime murder charge could bring more serious consequences than the second-degree murder charge Zimmerman faces now.

“Mr. Zimmerman could be punished by up to life in prison or even the death penalty,” said Sheaffer.

Zimmerman said he used deadly force in self-defense after Martin punched him, knocked him to the ground and repeatedly slammed his head against a sidewalk.

As of late Monday, Zimmerman’s attorney, Mark O’Mara, told WFTV that he's gotten the first prosecution documents containing the evidence against his client. O’Mara said he's gotten a redacted witness list with 22 witnesses listed only as numbers.

O’Mara said he believes there are recorded interviews and some documents, but he said he hasn't even opened it yet.

Prosecutors are required to release information to the defense and the public

However, O'Mara, wants Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester Jr. to keep some of the key evidence, especially witness statements, out of the public eye by writing a motion to keep it sealed.

O'Mara posted a statement on Zimmerman's website that said, "We doubt any of them (witnesses) enjoy the scrutiny they are under due to the coincidence of their involvement in such a high-profile matter."

In the meantime, a photograph recently surfaced which is said to show Zimmerman's mother in the arms of her grandfather, who is black.

Zimmerman's mother testified at his bond hearing that she has met the black child whom he mentored and even risked his safety in a dangerous neighborhood to do it, because he didn't want to abandon the child.

State prosecutors said Zimmerman gave several inconsistent statements to Sanford police, which is, in part, their basis for charging him with second-degree murder.

Giantrobo
05-15-12, 04:03 PM
Yeah, good luck with this...

General Zod
05-15-12, 05:04 PM
Yeah, good luck with this...

Agreed.

They can go ahead and charge him, and knowing how this has been going they probably will, but I expect all these charges to be dropped right about November 7th.

TheBigDave
05-15-12, 06:04 PM
Here's info from the doctor's report regarding Zimmerman's injuries:

ABC News Exclusive: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations After Trayvon Martin Shooting

A medical report compiled by the family physician of accused Trayvon Martin murderer George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.

------------

The morning after the shooting, on Feb. 27, Zimmerman sought treatment at the offices of a general physician at a family practice near Sanford, Fla. The doctor notes Zimmerman sought an appointment to get legal clearance to return to work.

The record shows that Zimmerman also suffered bruising in the upper lip and cheek and lower back pain. The two lacerations on the back of his head, one of them nearly an inch long, the other about a quarter-inch long, were first revealed in photos obtained exclusively by ABC News last month.

But the report also shows Zimmerman declined hospitalization the night of the shooting, and then declined the advice of his doctor to make a follow-up appointment with an ear nose and throat doctor.

In addition to his physical injuries, Zimmerman complained of stress and "occasional nausea when thinking about the violence." But he was not diagnosed with a concussion. The doctor noted that it was "imperative" that Zimmerman "be seen with [sic] his psychologist for evaluation."

According to the report, prior to the shooting Zimmerman had been prescribed Adderall and Temazepam, medications that can cause side effects such as agitation and mood swings, but in fewer than 10 percent of patients.

A neighbor told ABC News that the day after the shooting he saw Zimmerman as he spoke to officers outside his home. He too recalled seeing black eyes and significant swelling -- as well as a bandage over his nose.

FULL ARTICLE - http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532#.T7LdzcWME4c

superdeluxe
05-15-12, 07:39 PM
Well that is certainly nOt going to help getting zimmerman convicted

TheBigDave
05-15-12, 07:49 PM
Mortician Richard Kurtz embalmed Trayvon Martin's body, saw no signs of scuffle

http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/19...gns-of-scuffle

The autopsy results just got leaked and it contradicts those claims:

Autopsy results show Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles

WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died.

The autopsy results come as Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O’Mara continues to go over other evidence in the case.

O’Mara wouldn't comment on the autopsy evidence, but WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said it's better for the defense than it is for the prosecution.

WFTV has learned that the medical examiner found two injuries on Martin’s body: The fatal gunshot wound and broken skin on his knuckles.

FULL ARTICLE - http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN6gs/

DVD Polizei
05-15-12, 08:20 PM
Richard Kurtz better embalm his idiotic comments. Stupid. Ass.

grundle
05-15-12, 09:44 PM
The autopsy results just got leaked and it contradicts those claims:

The autopsy (conducted by a doctor with a medical degree) is far more valid as evidence than anything an embalmer (who took a two week training course that he saw advertised on TV) has to say.

wmansir
05-15-12, 09:48 PM
I was wondering how long it would take for the defense to leak the autopsy report. Obviously the prosecution has been trying to keep it secret, even though they originally said it would be released once they finished their investigation.

Rockmjd23
05-15-12, 10:17 PM
Wait, people were taking the word of the mortician seriously? :lol:

Sonny Corinthos
05-15-12, 10:25 PM
Trayvon Martin’s mother got 8 months of donated vacation time

The mother of slain teenager Trayvon Martin will be able to take about eight months of paid leave from her county job, thanks to the generosity of county employees.

Sybrina Fulton, who has worked at the Miami-Dade County housing authority for 23 years, collected $40,825 worth of donated vacation time, county records show. The paid time off is in addition to the nearly $100,000 the family raised on wepay.com and at rallies, which will be used to launch a criminal justice advocacy foundation in Trayvon’s name.

The donated days are the latest in a mounting fortune in contributions that have amassed on both sides of the controversial case. With websites dedicated to the grieving parents of Trayvon Martin as well as for the man who killed him, and now even his attorney, funds gathered in the wake of the Feb. 26 tragedy are set to reach half a million dollars. Donors continue to reach into their pockets, even as each side criticizes the other’s purpose and intent in seeking donations.

“They are using the money to continue the legacy of their son,” said Michael Hall, a graphic designer and marketing specialist who helped launch the Justice for Trayvon Martin Foundation. The parents created the nonprofit in March in response to their son’s killing. “They didn’t want a situation where people could say they were profiting off the loss of their son.”

Hall said Trayvon’s parents will become paid employees of the foundation, compensated for their time conducting speaking engagements and other advocacy work. He stressed that the foundation would keep Fulton and her ex-husband, Tracy Martin, at the levels of income they already made — not higher.

Until now, the parents’ extensive travel expenses have been paid either by their attorney, Benjamin Crump, or by whoever invited them to the event they attended, he said. They turned all checks they received over to the Miami Foundation, a pre-existing and separate organization that is administering the Justice for Trayvon Martin Foundation’s trust fund, and will help establish a board of directors, review expenditures and conduct audits, Hall said.

The goal is to raise $1.5 million for programs such as teaching conflict resolution to teens.

The first order of business: a movement to repeal the Stand Your Ground laws that exist around the nation. Fulton released a video on Friday, timed for Mother’s Day, on secondchancecampaign.org urging Americans to appeal to their respective governors to eliminate laws that offer increased immunity in self-defense cases.

Hall said the details have not yet been finalized, but Fulton would presumably not begin getting a salary or per diem by the foundation until after her paid county leave runs out. He said he doesn’t know if she plans to leave her county job.

Last month the Miami-Dade County Commission passed a resolution sponsored by Bruno Barreiro, Barbara Jordan and Jose “Pepe” Diaz to allow county employees to donate vacation time to Fulton or Trayvon’s aunt, Yolanda Knight Evans, a water and sewer customer-service representative. The $50,000 cap the commission set on the value of the time donated was reached in two weeks, county spokeswoman Suzy Trutie said.

A similar measure was passed last year to help the families of two slain police officers.

Records show 192 county employees gave Fulton some of their hours, and 70 people donated to Knight Evans.

The donations for Fulton added up to 1,362 hours — a total of 34 paid weeks off. Trayvon’s aunt collected nearly nine weeks.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/11/v-print/2794656/trayvon-martins-mother-got-about.html#storylink=cpy

Giantrobo
05-16-12, 03:51 AM
The autopsy results just got leaked and it contradicts those claims:


Doesnt mean jackshit to me. Martin could have gotten those wounds fighting for his life after the gun was pulled or after feeling threatened by Zimmerman. I guess we'll never know since Martin is dead.

Giantrobo
05-16-12, 03:52 AM
Trayvon Martin’s mother got 8 months of donated vacation time

The mother of slain teenager Trayvon Martin will be able to take about eight months of paid leave from her county job, thanks to the generosity of county employees.

Sybrina Fulton, who has worked at the Miami-Dade County housing authority for 23 years, collected $40,825 worth of donated vacation time, county records show. The paid time off is in addition to the nearly $100,000 the family raised on wepay.com and at rallies, which will be used to launch a criminal justice advocacy foundation in Trayvon’s name.

The donated days are the latest in a mounting fortune in contributions that have amassed on both sides of the controversial case. With websites dedicated to the grieving parents of Trayvon Martin as well as for the man who killed him, and now even his attorney, funds gathered in the wake of the Feb. 26 tragedy are set to reach half a million dollars. Donors continue to reach into their pockets, even as each side criticizes the other’s purpose and intent in seeking donations.

“They are using the money to continue the legacy of their son,” said Michael Hall, a graphic designer and marketing specialist who helped launch the Justice for Trayvon Martin Foundation. The parents created the nonprofit in March in response to their son’s killing. “They didn’t want a situation where people could say they were profiting off the loss of their son.”

Hall said Trayvon’s parents will become paid employees of the foundation, compensated for their time conducting speaking engagements and other advocacy work. He stressed that the foundation would keep Fulton and her ex-husband, Tracy Martin, at the levels of income they already made — not higher.

Until now, the parents’ extensive travel expenses have been paid either by their attorney, Benjamin Crump, or by whoever invited them to the event they attended, he said. They turned all checks they received over to the Miami Foundation, a pre-existing and separate organization that is administering the Justice for Trayvon Martin Foundation’s trust fund, and will help establish a board of directors, review expenditures and conduct audits, Hall said.

The goal is to raise $1.5 million for programs such as teaching conflict resolution to teens.

The first order of business: a movement to repeal the Stand Your Ground laws that exist around the nation. Fulton released a video on Friday, timed for Mother’s Day, on secondchancecampaign.org urging Americans to appeal to their respective governors to eliminate laws that offer increased immunity in self-defense cases.

Hall said the details have not yet been finalized, but Fulton would presumably not begin getting a salary or per diem by the foundation until after her paid county leave runs out. He said he doesn’t know if she plans to leave her county job.

Last month the Miami-Dade County Commission passed a resolution sponsored by Bruno Barreiro, Barbara Jordan and Jose “Pepe” Diaz to allow county employees to donate vacation time to Fulton or Trayvon’s aunt, Yolanda Knight Evans, a water and sewer customer-service representative. The $50,000 cap the commission set on the value of the time donated was reached in two weeks, county spokeswoman Suzy Trutie said.

A similar measure was passed last year to help the families of two slain police officers.

Records show 192 county employees gave Fulton some of their hours, and 70 people donated to Knight Evans.

The donations for Fulton added up to 1,362 hours — a total of 34 paid weeks off. Trayvon’s aunt collected nearly nine weeks.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/11/v-print/2794656/trayvon-martins-mother-got-about.html#storylink=cpy


:up:

Jaymole
05-16-12, 08:11 AM
Doesnt mean jackshit to me. Martin could have gotten those wounds fighting for his life after the gun was pulled or after feeling threatened by Zimmerman. I guess we'll never know since Martin is dead.

He also could have gotten them from punching the gun a number of times and one of those punches may have accidentally fired the gun. The backfire caused the gun to go into Zimmerman's face, resulting in a broken nose and the back of his head hitting the concrete..

Thus, nobody is at fault.

maxfisher
05-16-12, 08:49 AM
100-to-1 that the hate crime story is a local network trying to drive ratings with a juicy story with minimal basis in reality. I would guess the federal investigation of how the whole incident was handled is still underway and that part of the standard questions they're asking neighbors deal with their observances of Zimmerman's attitudes towards people of other races. Neighbor mentions this to the press and some reporter writes up a whole story on it with the aid of the station's resident legal expert. Among those who have followed the story, I have to think that even those who still see a racial component are criticizing how the police handled things, not making the claim that Zimmerman was a racist.

cpgator
05-16-12, 08:52 AM
Doesnt mean jackshit to me. Martin could have gotten those wounds fighting for his life after the gun was pulled or after feeling threatened by Zimmerman. I guess we'll never know since Martin is dead.

Good point. If someone pulled a gun on me, the first thing i would probably do is run up and start hitting them.

raven56706
05-16-12, 10:18 AM
this should be fun... where is the wise Rev. Al during this?

superdeluxe
05-16-12, 10:49 AM
this should be fun... where is the wise Rev. Al during this?

Jumping ship as more and more evidence pours in.