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View Full Version : Amazon A-Z Claims Problem


foofighters7
04-18-12, 12:31 AM
If this should be in another area please feel free to move to the proper locale.

I've got a major problem with Amazon A-Z Claims and am wondering what others have did or what I should do.

Long story long, I sold a game to a buyer on Amazon. After about a week and a half they filed a A-Z Claims against me saying they never received their game.

The A-Z claims asked for the specifics- tracking # and form of shipping (USPS Priority, as the buyer wanted).

I showed that I sent it in a timely fashion and provided the Tracking number.

Amazingly the idiot who was handling the case sided with the buyer for no reason at all. In fact, everyone at Amazon that I have spoken to is confused as to how they sided with the buyer in the first place since I upheld my end of the sale, I sent it and I had proof. It actually went from Indiana to California without problem but the tracking on amazon was showing 'out for delivery' for days in her hometown.

After they sided with the buyer I decided to not let this stand as it was an expensive game and I knew I was right. I Googled her address and looked for the closest Post Office. I found what I thought would be her local Post Office and called them. I told them the situation and gave them the tracking. The woman says "oh yes we left a note for her to pick up and she never did, it's here sitting on the shelf"....

So the moron buyer didn't do ANY searching for her item and even worse the piece of shit A-Z claims person (Alice) didn't do her job AT ALL! She didn't check into anything. In fact if you checked on the USPS websites tracking it showed it was delivered.
I emailed the buyer and she went and picked it up. I even have an email where she says "yes she has it now, thanks".

With all this information, the worthless A-Z claims STILL will not do anything about this utterly clear mistake by their claims person!

I have several people at Amazon's Seller Support trying to help and they seem to understand and really want to help me. Everyone I've told says it's amazing how badly they dropped the ball, yet A-Z acts like they did nothing wrong.
Bottom line, they deducted the funds from my account, so I have no game and no money right now.

Anyone know how I can get my money on this?

From what I gather they illegally took the funds from my account since I provided the information and I have always had clear proof of what was happening. I am seriously thinking about suing them if I don't get my money back, Anyone have any experience suing Amazon?

I know that might sound extreme but I have spent hours on this issue with Amazon A-Z acting like they are infallible and I am tired of it.

It's pathetic that they have VERY clear evidence and are still refusing to help in any way, even when other people (team leaders) at Amazon have emailed them wondering why they have not fixed the issue.

Anyone?

PhantomStranger
04-18-12, 12:58 AM
My honest opinion is that fighting these huge monolithic corporations can be a real chore when something in their internal process breaks down and the system did not work correctly. It's clear the claims person at Amazon made a mistake, but Amazon has a vested interest in siding with the buyers.

I think your only hope is an executive email bomb or getting your story posted at Consumerist. Corporations tend to respond when they are called out in public on websites that have huge followings.

http://consumerist.com/

My Other Self
04-18-12, 02:18 AM
I had a nearly identical problem to you about a year ago. It's why I stopped selling on Amazon. I don't sell anything online anymore because of the headaches and hassles like this, which I seemed to get a lot of.

I had sold a textbook through Amazon, same deal. Buyer claimed they never got it, but shipping showed it was delivered. Called Amazon after they sided with the buyer, and they too said they didn't understand what had happened. I called the local post office, and the package was too big for their mailbox so a note was left for them to pick it up. Told buyer, buyer got the book but then left me a score of 1 in the feedback section, and if you're a small seller like I was those negs really hurt your ratings.

Anyway, I must've called Amazon 15 times over the course of a month and I never got the issue resolved. It was a $150 text book, but after all the headaches and all that I just said screw it and closed my seller's account. I was out the book itself and the $150, so I got hosed.

You're better off quitting while you're, well not ahead, but while you're still level-headed. Amazon won't fix this. Chalk it up as a loss and a move on.

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi
04-18-12, 11:21 AM
From what I've seen/heard, Amazon doesn't really consider the USPS tracking as official tracking since it doesn't prove that the customer got the order in their hand. It just shows delivered, which in your case goes to show that it wasn't delivered since it was still at the post office.

Once they make a decision, it's pretty much over. The time to have called the post office was before but now you can chalk it up to a learning experience.

I had a similar issue but just did a refund because I knew it wasn't worth the fight because I'd lose. As soon as they got their refund, I got negative feedback saying I was a thief.

argh923
04-18-12, 12:54 PM
Couldn't the seller just do a chargeback on his credit card? This is a bogus refund, since he can prove that the item made its way to the destination.

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi
04-18-12, 03:21 PM
Couldn't the seller just do a chargeback on his credit card? This is a bogus refund, since he can prove that the item made its way to the destination.

The buyer doesn't have it in his hands yet, so Amazon doesn't consider it delivered. The seller is responsible for the package until it reaches the buyer's hands.

If you have a USPS tracking that says it's been delivered but in reality it was dropped off at the wrong house, they still haven't received it, which is why Amazon doesn't consider USPS tracking to be concrete proof that something has been delivered.

Amazon leans towards protecting buyers over sellers, that's why they're popular with buyers because you get a better response when there's an issue.

Trevor
04-18-12, 04:09 PM
This is why I don't sell stuff anymore. Even without a major theft like this, the nickel and diming in fees and the time it takes to list, package and mail stuff isn't worth it.

I'd rather just give stuff away and spend the time working overtime for a much more $ most likely.

argh923
04-18-12, 04:55 PM
The buyer doesn't have it in his hands yet, so Amazon doesn't consider it delivered. The seller is responsible for the package until it reaches the buyer's hands.

If you have a USPS tracking that says it's been delivered but in reality it was dropped off at the wrong house, they still haven't received it, which is why Amazon doesn't consider USPS tracking to be concrete proof that something has been delivered.

Amazon leans towards protecting buyers over sellers, that's why they're popular with buyers because you get a better response when there's an issue.

That's insane. How is it the seller's fault that the package is sitting at the post office? That absolutely doesn't make sense to me.

My Other Self
04-18-12, 10:24 PM
That's insane. How is it the seller's fault that the package is sitting at the post office? That absolutely doesn't make sense to me.It doesn't make any sense, but unfortunately that's how it works. I bought a rare book a few years ago on eBay that was claimed to be mint -- it wasn't. Severe water damage and it looked like someone took a shit on it.

The seller denied that, and blamed me, but when I filed the PayPal clam they agreed to refund me when I returned it. So I sent it back, with Delivery Confirmation, but it never updated to show he had received it. I called his post office and it was delivered a few days earlier.

PayPal said since they had no confirmation it was delivered, they couldn't refund me. So I was out $200 and the shitty copy of the book. The dishonest seller never contacted me again. All I could do is neg him.

foofighters7
04-18-12, 11:30 PM
From what others at Amazon have told me, the fact that I put the Tracking on it and it shows it was sent should have been good enough.

It wasn't my responsibility to find the buyers game at her local post office. This was the buyer's responsibility and the A-Z claims department since they CLAIM they research and check into everything so they can give the best decision.

The fact is, they don't. At least in this situation they didn't. ALICE, the person on the case didn't do her job in any way whatsoever and should be fired for her incompetence.

I will call these pieces of shit every day if I have to until I get my money back. I might also think about suing the buyer in small claims if possible if she doesn't have them recharge her card.

Perkinsun Dzees
04-18-12, 11:56 PM
You should really be posting this on the Seller Discussion forums on Amazon.com as you'll probably get more responses that way.


.

My Other Self
04-19-12, 12:25 AM
foofighters, how much are we talking here to go through all this? Small claims court? Wouldn't you have to be in the same state?

homestreetuk
04-19-12, 08:03 AM
Greetings from the UK.
I also have a major problem and came across this post via google.
Firstly, i will be fighting Amazon all the way to court if i have to. I wont be giving up or putting it down to bad experience. Sure, it seems like a waste of time. But, think of all the others out there with similar problems. 1 persons time could save many.
My goal is to not only get my money back, but to show Amazon how improvements can be made to provide a better experience for both buyers and sellers.

MY PROBLEM IN A NUTSHELL.
Buyer purchased 12 chairs for 487 (a lot of $). 2 chairs were damaged. Customer called Amazon. Amazon advise to open A to Z claim. Customer believed chairs were bought from Amazon (not a seller). This is the 1st time i hear about the problem. Amazon advise Seller to provide return address. Customer not happy to return large items.
Its at this point that i call the customer and arrange swap over of damaged items. Our first conversation. Customer appologises for opening claim and is very grateful for personal service and resolving faster than what she was expecting. A few more conversations later and customer left happy.
Emails sent to amazon. ignored and or transferred.
ISSUES
Amazon have held onto 487 (the total order value) and not amount for 2 (out of 12) chairs.
Amazon called the customer and offered to refund delivery charge. THE CUSTOMER REFUSED and said thats unfair. Yes, thats right....the customer refused the refund.
Amazon ignored their own policy which states (and i quoted it exactly to them) that the customer must contact the seller before an a to z claim will be opened.
Amazon transferred emails and gave me no responses
The a to z claim is now resolved as REFUNDED BY SELLER, but i have been told that this is not the case and no refund will be given and it has ended in my favour. (i await to see this)
If they call the customer, she will refuse a refund, due to the good service she has had and realisation that Amazon would not have helped her to a timely resolve.
NEXT STAGE
They are wrongly holding onto the money for 30 days and state they cannot release and i await it actually and truly being refunded.
I FIRMLY believe that my customer and future customers will not get the best service if this was to happen again. Even if i am refunded, i will be pushing for changes to be made and exploring every possible avenue.
At the end of the day, Amazon as a business needs to listen and be open to change. Anyone who runs a business knows this.
My goal is the same as theirs, to provide the best service to our customers.
So, my advice is dont give up, but dont look at your problem from your own point of view and make it personal. Look at it from all points of view, especially the customers. If improvements can be made, then push for it. Not everyone will have the time (and i really dont). Thats fair enough, but i simply cant let this situation continue for sellers and buyers.
If i get another a to z claim....i feel like my only option is to refund and dont resolve. This is not how it should be.
I have had another issue a few months ago which was similar and ended in a buyer full refund. As it was a small amount, i let it go. When this claim was opened i realised that i could not go the extra mile for the customer. Despite that, after speaking to the customer, i decided to do the right thing.
.....now...its time for Amazon to do the right thing.
Good luck all.

foofighters7
04-19-12, 09:56 AM
foofighters, how much are we talking here to go through all this? Small claims court? Wouldn't you have to be in the same state?

It's all of around 60 bucks after shipping. I know it's not a great deal. This is more about the stupidity factor. I can't stand this kind of blatant stupidity by large companies or anyone for that matter.

Facts and common sense seem to roll off their backs like rain and I just can't stand that.

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi
04-19-12, 11:36 AM
It wasn't my responsibility to find the buyers game at her local post office. This was the buyer's responsibility and the A-Z claims department since they CLAIM they research and check into everything so they can give the best decision.

Per Amazon, which was also in an email when you signed up to be a seller Keep in mind that you are responsible for the item until it reaches the buyer at the address provided within your Amazon.com account.

Unless they live at the post office, Amazon says you need to make sure it gets all the way to the buyer. Amazon, like ebay, is buyer friendly, so people keep coming back.

And a link to a relevant thread, from the buyer's point of view
http://www.amazonsellercommunity.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=190292&start=0&tstart=0

I'm not saying I agree with all of this but that's just how amazon is.

adrenaline78
04-19-12, 12:34 PM
I had a buyer also claim they never received the item even tho tracking showed it was delivered. They refunded the guy.. but didn't take any money from me.

I mean I totally understand where amazon is coming from. If I was a buyer and the item never showed, even if tracking says it did, I would contact who I bought it from. And if they couldn't resolve the problem, I would file a claim.

argh923
04-19-12, 01:58 PM
That's not the point here though. All the Claims department would have to do is contact the local post office, who can verify the item is there. It's not the seller's fault that the buyer is too lazy to go pick it up.

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi
04-19-12, 03:34 PM
That's not the point here though. All the Claims department would have to do is contact the local post office, who can verify the item is there. It's not the seller's fault that the buyer is too lazy to go pick it up.

The time to have done the footwork of contacting the post office was when the claim was opened, when they ask for proof at that point. Not after the decision is made. Plus it isn't amazon's job to play detective for every claim but to decide on what's made available to them.

It can be argued over and over but that's how the system works.

argh923
04-19-12, 06:25 PM
I still think that's absurd. If I were the seller here, I'd do everything I could and wouldn't let this go.

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi
04-19-12, 08:18 PM
Sounds like a deal where you end up spending more trying to get something done than it's worth, since it was just a game.

Could also try contacting amazon through different channels. I've had absolute failures one way but had it work by doing it another way.

My Other Self
04-19-12, 08:37 PM
Are there any back door Amazon numbers, similar with credit card companies? Maybe you could reach someone in management directly to plead your case.

foofighters7
04-20-12, 12:28 AM
The time to have done the footwork of contacting the post office was when the claim was opened, when they ask for proof at that point. Not after the decision is made. Plus it isn't amazon's job to play detective for every claim but to decide on what's made available to them.

It can be argued over and over but that's how the system works.

This actually isn't true at all.

I have confirmed with multiple people at Amazon that the Claims person did not do her job and that YES, her job WAS to get the facts by doing the sleuthing herself. The A-Z Claims person looks at the facts that are given by the buyer and seller, THEN checks into everything they can to determine who they should side with. She didn't do this and that is why I have spent hours on the phone with Amazon.

I, as a seller am NOT responsible to 'hunt' for the package. I am responsible to ship the item the way the buyer requested, to ship in a timely manner and to provide a proof of shipping. Amazon's A-Z claims are random at best as to who they choose to side with.

Multiple 'Team Leaders' have confirmed after looking at the facts that the A-Z person mishandled this case and that this should have been in my favor.
I have already been told that, but didn't have my money anyway.

Update though, The buyer actually did the right thing and called Amazon after I emailed her 3 times. She requested to be re-charged so I'm getting my money anyway, but I will still call Amazon and complain about the piece of crap A-Z 'Alice' person.

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi
04-20-12, 11:42 AM
To me it sounds like the other team leaders are giving their opinion on which way they'd vote for it and not necessarily a policy being broken, in which case they'd be able to take it up the chain for you.

But contrary to what you say, you are responsible until it gets into their hands. I was copying the wording Amazon uses.

argh923
04-20-12, 03:24 PM
Are there any back door Amazon numbers, similar with credit card companies? Maybe you could reach someone in management directly to plead your case.

There IS a backdoor email address that I was able to have an issue resolved once (partial refund on a faulty camcorder). I'll have to go back through my sent items to find it.

My Other Self
04-20-12, 10:58 PM
This actually isn't true at all.It is, though. I had sold things on eBay and Amazon for years and that's the the way it was explained to me the countless times I had problems.

foofighters7
04-21-12, 03:22 PM
I have had 5-6 Amazon associates confirm that when someone opens an A-Z case the claims rep has to look through the evidence and do the digging themselves to find the truth.

They are responsible to "play detective". This is their job in the A-Z claims. To get the details and do the checking to find the truth so they can side in a manner that is fair.

I'm not arguing that they say it's your responsibility to get it in the buyer's hands (which is moronic to say the least), this I see.
I'm saying it IS their responsibility to try to find facts. Everyone I spoke to confirmed this is 100% true. They are there to fact find and research issues. This person did not do it and therefore I was forced to waste my time doing it.

At any rate, their whole system is heavily flawed and in dire need of an overhaul.

Clearly they want to side with buyers but they need to be more careful of catching the thief buyers and stupid claims.