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Game of Thrones -- "What Is Dead May Never Die" -- 4/15/12 [Archive] - DVD Talk Forum
 
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DVD Reviews

View Full Version : Game of Thrones -- "What Is Dead May Never Die" -- 4/15/12


DJariya
04-15-12, 01:34 PM
<img src="http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/6426/gameofthroneso.jpg" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/><br/>By <a target="_new" href="http://profile.imageshack.us/user/djariya">djariya</a> at 2012-03-22

Synopsis:

Tyrion finds Shae a job, and devises a clever ruse to ferret out a snitch at the Red Keep. Meanwhile, Jon Snow's compassion gets him and Mormont's crew in hot water at Craster's Keep, but Sam Tarly has a parting gift for Gilly; Catelyn pitches an alliance to Renly Baratheon in the Stormlands; Theon takes a bold stance to get back in his father's good graces; and Arya must think quickly when there's trouble on the road north.

Episode 3 of 10

Promo:

<object width="512" height="288"><param name="movie" value="http://www.hbo.com/bin/hboPlayerV2.swf?vid=1248140"></param><param name="FlashVars" value="domain=http://www.hbo.com&videoTitle=Episode 13 - Preview&copyShareURL=http%3A//www.hbo.com/video/video.html/%3Fautoplay%3Dtrue%26vid%3D1248140%26filter%3Dgame-of-thrones%26view%3Dnull"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.hbo.com/bin/hboPlayerV2.swf?vid=1248140" FlashVars="domain=http://www.hbo.com&videoTitle=Episode 13 - Preview&copyShareURL=http%3A//www.hbo.com/video/video.html/%3Fautoplay%3Dtrue%26vid%3D1248140%26filter%3Dgame-of-thrones%26view%3Dnull" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="512" height="288"></embed></object><div><a title="Episode 13 - Preview" href="http://www.hbo.com/video/video.html/?autoplay=true&vid=1248140&filter=game-of-thrones&view=null">Episode 13 - Preview</a></div>

Season 2 Viewers Guide:

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season2/

pinata242
04-15-12, 01:36 PM
I'm so excited to finally see Brienne

sven
04-15-12, 02:42 PM
I'm so excited to finally see Brienne

It'll be interesting to see if they can actually make such a worthless character likeable.

JasonF
04-15-12, 03:17 PM
This is off topic, but I don't want it to get hurried in the spoilers- only thread, so ... Here's a link to the actor who played Syrio doing an AMA on reddit (for those unfamiliar, AMA means Ask Me Anything, and like the name implies, he's just answering questions from the Internet):

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/sapz2/hello_i_am_miltos_yerolemou_i_am_an_actor_you/

EEz28
04-15-12, 08:56 PM
No sex!?! Fuck this episode!

PopcornTreeCt
04-15-12, 08:57 PM
This is getting brutal.

MrX
04-15-12, 09:06 PM
Loved watching Theon's heel turn on screen.

No Dany:up:

sven
04-15-12, 09:15 PM
Loved watching Theon's heel turn on screen.

No Dany:up:

Agreed on both points.

Thrush
04-15-12, 09:23 PM
Were Tyrion's plans for Myrcella entirely dependent on which member of the Small Council betrayed him?

Dr. DVD
04-15-12, 09:26 PM
Tyrion is so much better at his game than Ned. He owned this ep.

I knew Yoren's death was coming, that didn't make it suck less. At least he went out in a blaze of glory.

lordwow
04-15-12, 09:28 PM
Were Tyrion's plans for Myrcella entirely dependent on which member of the Small Council betrayed him?

Yes, he told them all different things to isolate the leak

sven
04-15-12, 09:32 PM
Pretty sure Myrcella was going to Dorne no matter what. So they really weren't dependent on who leaked their personal story.

Dave99
04-15-12, 09:35 PM
I can't remember back to book 2 very well, but did everything happen that way with the greyjoys and their plan to take the north (mainly winterfell) as shown in this episode? I don't recall it being spelled out that clearly.

actionjackson29
04-15-12, 09:50 PM
I think they always planned to take the north but Theon came up with the bright idea to take Winterfell and impress his father.

Dr. DVD
04-15-12, 09:51 PM
^ It wasn't. Also, almost all of the stuff with Renly aside from the tournament was made for this episode.

Dave99
04-15-12, 09:59 PM
^ It wasn't. Also, almost all of the stuff with Renly aside from the tournament was made for this episode.

I recall being surprised in the book, because it seemed like theon came up with it all on his own to rule winterfell.


Even though the stuff with renly was invented, it did a good job of covering a lot of ground without a ton of screen time.

sven
04-15-12, 10:11 PM
I recall being surprised in the book, because it seemed like theon came up with it all on his own to rule winterfell.


And he probably will in this too. Theon is only supposed to harass the Stony Shore. Nothing has really changed.

starman9000
04-15-12, 10:14 PM
I wonder how many tuned in because of the SNL skit this weekend to be greeted by Renly. :lol:

Tommy Ceez
04-15-12, 10:26 PM
Dr DVD

Now THAT is a spoiler

Sorry, actionjackson needs he spoiler tags.

pinata242
04-15-12, 10:28 PM
I thought they cut together Tyrion's plan wonderfully. I wasn't quite sure how that was going to play out here, but they got right to it in a way that clearly spelled it out for the viewers who hadn't read before what exactly he was doing.

Once again, the show ends too abruptly. If only I had the willpower to wait until June 3rd to watch them all back-to-back.

musick
04-15-12, 10:29 PM
great as always
is it wrong to want to see a Margaery/Roz scene

Astrofan
04-15-12, 11:12 PM
Anybody who has anything to say bad about this series has to come through me in a mle. We are so fortunate to have such a magnificent production of this well-loved series. I'd say tonight episode ranked in the top 3 of both seasons so far. Dinklage is still tearing it up, but truly incredible casting all around. Brienne is a tower of strength. Great to see Natalie Dormer from the Tudors. The kids continue to be great and did Sophie Turner shoot up in height for what? She has great stance and posterior for a role that suggests she was trained, unlike Arya (who never excepted it) to be regal.

Sunday nights--The Borgias, Mad Men and this, it doesn't get better.

superfro
04-15-12, 11:29 PM
I thought they cut together Tyrion's plan wonderfully. I wasn't quite sure how that was going to play out here, but they got right to it in a way that clearly spelled it out for the viewers who hadn't read before what exactly he was doing.

:up: Yeah...it was fantastic.

Also..there's some discussion above of some stuff that wasn't actually said in this episode that people in the know seem to be inferring BECAUSE they know. There's at least two posts that need spoiler tags IMO. Hate for people to get shit ruined.

Jadzia
04-15-12, 11:40 PM
MOD NOTE:

Please make sure to put any spoilers from the books in spoiler tags!

Any discussion about the book should be spoiler tagged or go in Book Talk.

Thanks!

Mhepburn20
04-15-12, 11:42 PM
I missed Dany in this episode but was easily my favorite of this season. I have not read the books but LOVED the first season (to the point that I have watched it three times thus far and watched ALL the special features on the blu which I bought opening day).

I am sure in the long run it will pay off but this season seems overloaded with characters. We barely have enough time to hit upon characters that became fan favorites in season 1 - Snow was barely in this one, Dany not in it at all and I think we're at two in a row without Robb now. I don't yet care about people like Stannis Baratheon's entourage (from last episode) - although I suspect I eventually will. If only these episodes were 90 minutes long.

actionjackson29
04-16-12, 06:03 AM
Sorry if I spoiled anything thought I was just clarifying what was already mentioned in the episode.

Superman07
04-16-12, 06:57 AM
Assholes! They killed Yoren. :(

covenant
04-16-12, 08:24 AM
It'll be interesting to see if they can actually make such a worthless character likeable.

Worthless character? There's only one and her name is Dany.

MikahC
04-16-12, 09:08 AM
What's with the hate boner for Dany? Are people who hate her non-book readers who don't yet know how she ties into the story or what? I haven't read the books, but it's obvious to me she's a major player. In fact, she's the only one I can recall right now would be define as "supernatural". The actress also does fine IMO. So what is it?

KirstenS
04-16-12, 09:19 AM
She's incredibly boring?

beesonosu
04-16-12, 09:25 AM
I concur, Mikah. I haven't read the books yet either, but I've enjoyed the whole Targaryen storyline so far. Granted, I had hoped Khal Drogo was going to play a larger role, but I actually see the purposefulness of having her be a "Moses"-type figure in exodus (to a loose degree). They might not be the most riveting scenes, but it is something different.

fumanstan
04-16-12, 09:32 AM
I liked Daenerys last season, but she hasn't done much yet this season given the finale last year ended with her. Hope she does something interesting soon besides just... walk.

*Haven't read the books, no need to spoiler or allude to anything. :)

superdeluxe
04-16-12, 09:48 AM
Loved the episode. Finally see Margery and Brienne. Tyrion's scheming was great. Loved Margery letting Renly in that she knows the secret and she was okay with it (suggesting that Loras comes and helps, or she gives up the arse to Renley). Margery is all about business, 'I'll give you a heir, I know this is just all a business anyways lol.

Loved how Brienne body slammed Loras.

pinata242
04-16-12, 09:54 AM
Brienne looked incredible. They really nailed that casting and after reading this interview with Gwendoline Christie it seems more like destiny than luck: http://www.sfx.co.uk/2012/04/11/game-of-thrones-gwendoline-christie-interview/

KirstenS
04-16-12, 09:59 AM
I think most of the Dany haters, such as myself, are book readers. I've always found her chapters hard to slog through. Nice to see that the writers have done a good job of making her storyline interesting on the show for non-book readers.

superdeluxe
04-16-12, 10:02 AM
I think most of the Dany haters, such as myself, are book readers. I've always found her chapters hard to slog through. Nice to see that the writers have done a good job of making her storyline interesting on the show for non-book readers.

I'm a book reader and they make her more likable on the TV show.

Hiro11
04-16-12, 10:03 AM
I liked this episode better than last week's. The plotlines are gathering steam a bit and things moved forward. One general note: there seems to be more scenes this year that are not in the book. I think the changes tighten things up a bit and have been successful in either providing additional motivations for character's actions or simplifying overly complex plot points. Also, it has to be said that the casting in this show continues to be peerless and one of its greatest strengths.

Things I particularly liked this week:
- The casting of Brienne. Spot on perfect for one of my favorite characters. She just towers over Lady Stark in their scene together.
- Tyrion continues to clean house. The arrest of Pycelle was awesome.
- The change in Margaery Tyrell's character vs. the book. Making her more mature and wise is a really good idea.
- Yoren and Arya had a nice moment talking about his past. Very well acted monologue.
- Amory Lorch. Ick, I effing hate that guy. The brutality of the attack on the Black Watch was pitch perfect.
- The explanation of Theon's motivations. His actions make a bit more sense than they do in the book (to me). This becomes important heading forward.

Lots going to happen next weeking judging by the preview. Can't wait.

Shady12
04-16-12, 10:42 AM
Anybody who has anything to say bad about this series has to come through me in a mle. We are so fortunate to have such a magnificent production of this well-loved series. I'd say tonight episode ranked in the top 3 of both seasons so far. Dinklage is still tearing it up, but truly incredible casting all around. Brienne is a tower of strength. Great to see Natalie Dormer from the Tudors. The kids continue to be great and did Sophie Turner shoot up in height for what? She has great stance and posterior for a role that suggests she was trained, unlike Arya (who never excepted it) to be regal.

Sunday nights--The Borgias, Mad Men and this, it doesn't get better.

This was probably my favorite episode so far. Sophie Turner has been really tall since the show started. I've never seen Natalie Dormer in anything else, but I think her face is kind of gross. The Brienne casting is awesome though.

superdeluxe
04-16-12, 10:43 AM
This was probably my favorite episode so far. Sophie Turner has been really tall since the show started. I've never seen Natalie Dormer in anything else, but I think her face is kind of gross. The Brienne casting is awesome though.

her face is gross? Is it the lip thing that you dislike?

superfro
04-16-12, 10:57 AM
I've never seen Natalie Dormer in anything else, but I think her face is kind of gross.

You looked at her face.

http://pigsofdarkness.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/nelson_haha.jpg

pinata242
04-16-12, 11:23 AM
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SNCv-nNsr5k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Shady12
04-16-12, 11:30 AM
her face is gross? Is it the lip thing that you dislike?

Partly. And she has squinty eyes spread really far apart. Sort of looks like an alien.

covenant
04-16-12, 11:37 AM
I think most of the Dany haters, such as myself, are book readers. I've always found her chapters hard to slog through. Nice to see that the writers have done a good job of making her storyline interesting on the show for non-book readers.

I'm a book reader and they make her more likable on the TV show.

Exactly. I enjoyed Dany more in the first book than in any of the others. And after awhile I just started skimming her chapters to make sure I wasn't missing anything crucial. I wasn't.

Dr. DVD
04-16-12, 12:16 PM
Dr DVD

Now THAT is a spoiler

Sorry, actionjackson needs he spoiler tags.

What exactly is a spoiler? I didn't name anything, just confirmed something.

Dr. DVD
04-16-12, 12:20 PM
Exactly. I enjoyed Dany more in the first book than in any of the others. And after awhile I just started skimming her chapters to make sure I wasn't missing anything crucial. I wasn't.


Being a book reader as well, the series does a much better job of conveying that Dany is probably the closest thing to a full-on good person of those vying for power.

pinata242
04-16-12, 12:22 PM
What exactly is a spoiler? I didn't name anything, just confirmed something.

He edited his post to move the comment from your post to actionjackson's post which has since been corrected.

fumanstan
04-16-12, 12:25 PM
Partly. And she has squinty eyes spread really far apart. Sort of looks like an alien.

Yeah, I thought she looked weird in Captain America too and someone rushed to her defense.

Tommy Ceez
04-16-12, 12:29 PM
What exactly is a spoiler? I didn't name anything, just confirmed something.

I misread the names...you didn't spoil anything

Tommy Ceez
04-16-12, 12:31 PM
Being a book reader as well, the series does a much better job of conveying that Dany is probably the closest thing to a full-on good person of those vying for power.

I think her book problem is that we all become super invested in the machinations of power in Westeros, and Dany's chapters drag us half way around the world to a place where Westerosi politics are meaningless.

superdeluxe
04-16-12, 12:36 PM
Yeah, I thought she looked weird in Captain America too and someone rushed to her defense.

She is the hottest alien I have ever seen.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2kyh6QhNP1ql6ewao1_500.gif

Thrush
04-16-12, 12:44 PM
- The explanation of Theon's motivations. His actions make a bit more sense than they do in the book (to me). This becomes important heading forward.


I don't think his choice is all that surprising. Especially when you look at his options.

Betray the Starks: Join his family and perhaps get himself a wife and eventually control of the Iron Islands down the road.

Betray his family: Return to Robb and tell him "Yeah my dad turned down your offer, and one more thing, hes also going to lay siege to the north while your fighting the Lannisters. But the good news is I'm still loyal to you guys, so theres that."

musick
04-16-12, 12:51 PM
She is the hottest alien I have ever seen.


http://pairody.com/images/2010/06/natalie-dormer-100th-anniversary-party-elizabeth-arden-6-480x731.jpg

http://mortenlaursen.com/uploads/tx_templavoila/L7W8525v2_S.jpg

pinata242
04-16-12, 12:53 PM
Betray the Starks: Join his family and perhaps get himself a wife and eventually control of the Iron Islands down the road.

I don't think Theon had a lot of confidence that he would even be heir to the Iron Islands after his father basically made Yara an Admiral over his Captain status. The boy had a rude awakening that has pushed him hard down the path of his ancestors and the baptism under the Drowned God's religion showed that heavily.

I doubt it'll be enough to change Balon's mind.

sven
04-16-12, 01:42 PM
Worthless character? There's only one and her name is Dany.

There is more than one and they both fit the bill.

Thrush
04-16-12, 01:44 PM
I don't think Theon had a lot of confidence that he would even be heir to the Iron Islands after his father basically made Yara an Admiral over his Captain status. The boy had a rude awakening that has pushed him hard down the path of his ancestors and the baptism under the Drowned God's religion showed that heavily.

I doubt it'll be enough to change Balon's mind.

True, but at least he has hope that he can regain the favor of his father. He is still the lone male heir. Worse case scenario hes 2nd in line. With the Starks hes never going to be more than what he is now.

pinata242
04-16-12, 02:07 PM
If you find yourself getting confused by the various religions as they begin to play a larger role in the show, HBO just uploaded this:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DIe0Q3PgcOw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

CKMorpheus
04-16-12, 02:16 PM
I haven't read the second book yet but I have read up on the religions in the books. I'm surprised we didn't see them drown Theon and bring him back to life. That's part of their religions creed: "What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger." Do they only do that with newborns?

ckw4b
04-16-12, 02:17 PM
What's with the hate boner for Dany? Are people who hate her non-book readers who don't yet know how she ties into the story or what? I haven't read the books, but it's obvious to me she's a major player. In fact, she's the only one I can recall right now would be define as "supernatural". The actress also does fine IMO. So what is it?

I am a book reader and I hate Dany and her storyline. I don't hate TV Dany nearly as much as Book Dany, but that's because Emilia Clarke is a really good actress.

musick
04-16-12, 02:30 PM
poor Arya .... she had to pick the boy with the golden locks

pinata242
04-16-12, 02:38 PM
poor Arya .... she had to pick the boy with the golden locks

What?

superdeluxe
04-16-12, 02:43 PM
What?

I'm guessing he is suggesting that she should have picked someone with brown hair.

But are we to know that the guards know this? They were just looking for the bullhorn helmet.

pinata242
04-16-12, 03:07 PM
Oh, ok. Yeah, all they knew about Gendry, besides his name, is that he had a bull's head helmet.

pinata242
04-16-12, 03:12 PM
That was my memory as well, Mordred, but GRRM in that video did say that Theon was baptized/drowned that way when he was younger so this was I guess just a symbolic gesture instead of a man's choice? Then again, if he died once before, he couldn't die again as indicated by the religion's words.

superdeluxe
04-16-12, 03:31 PM
Ratings are steady:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/hbo-game-thrones-girls-eastbound-down-ratings-312544

musick
04-16-12, 03:55 PM
Oh, ok. Yeah, all they knew about Gendry, besides his name, is that he had a bull's head helmet.

damn, what a bunch of goofs
how could they have not at least been informed of the kids damn hair color

pinata242
04-16-12, 03:58 PM
Because then they would know about Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen. Or at least those with golden locks would begin to give credence to the "false" claims by putting emphasis on something as trivial as hair color.

superdeluxe
04-16-12, 04:02 PM
damn, what a bunch of goofs
how could they have not at least been informed of the kids damn hair color

I think they were just trying to keep it on the Downlow.

musick
04-16-12, 04:08 PM
Because then they would know about Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen. Or at least those with golden locks would begin to give credence to the "false" claims by putting emphasis on something as trivial as hair color.

it wasn't like TMZ was going to be broadcasting throughout the kingdom that Joffrey had a thing against brown hair boys after the slaughter of the bastard babies

seems like when you have little to go by when searching for someone (name and that he carries a bull's head helmet) you might want to give all the descriptive info you do have at your disposal

If I was searching for Roz I'd say be on the lookout for the redhead whore with big boobies

oh well ... no biggie, just sayin'

pinata242
04-16-12, 04:12 PM
Go back and watch the scene where they interrogate Gendry's former master by pushing his head over the hot coals. All he gives them is a name and a unique item.

If they knew about hair color, we weren't shown that.

lordwow
04-16-12, 04:54 PM
I haven't read the second book yet but I have read up on the religions in the books. I'm surprised we didn't see them drown Theon and bring him back to life. That's part of their religions creed: "What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger." Do they only do that with newborns?

According to that video, he had already had it done when he was new born. I guess to relate it to Christianity, the drowning is like baptism, and what was shown in the episode is more like confirmation.

Dr. DVD
04-16-12, 05:00 PM
Ratings are steady:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/hbo-game-thrones-girls-eastbound-down-ratings-312544

I read somewhere, perhaps in EW, that GoT real strength in ratings comes from people who watch through on OnDemand or DVR. That helped its audience grow about 76% from the first ep. to the season finale. That's what I like about cable series, they can start out weak, but because their numbers are judged more on how many actual viewers they have as opposed to who views them and how many do so live like a major network, they don't get axed immediately if they start slow or don't deliver gangbuster ratings.

In terms of Theon, I feel for him. He really is the black sheep of the family and his future endeavors don't go too well.

flashburn
04-16-12, 05:39 PM
Yoren :(

I actually enjoy Dany's story. Surprised to see so much hate.

Dave99
04-16-12, 05:59 PM
I don't hate dany's story, it is just so slow in parts.

for good reason, there has to be lengths of time to allow the dragons to grow. doesn't make those parts suck any less though.

Osiris3657
04-16-12, 06:03 PM
Just a general question from someone who hasn't read the books: Did the first season cover only the first book?
There are 6 books, correct? So can we assume that there will be 6 seasons, one for each book?

pinata242
04-16-12, 06:13 PM
A little more than book one, but not much. 5 books currently with 7-8 total planned. Books may start to be split across seasons as early as next year.

Osiris3657
04-16-12, 06:34 PM
Thanks

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LUGzIfDRrLs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Josh-da-man
04-16-12, 06:41 PM
Just a general question from someone who hasn't read the books: Did the first season cover only the first book?
There are 6 books, correct? So can we assume that there will be 6 seasons, one for each book?

Yes, season one is, more or less, the entire first novel.

George R. R. Martin has, so far, written five "A Song of Ice and Fire" novels: A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, and A Dance with Dragons. There are two more novels planned to complete the story, but Martin could add more; he has done so before. Originally, "A Song of Ice and Fire" was going to be three novels.

Season two will cover "A Clash of Kings" but it's possible that they are going to start shuffling some plot elements around so season two could also include some elements from the third novel, and some elements from the second novel could end up in season three.

The third novel will probably be spread across seasons three and four, though I read somewhere that they're looking at something like eight seasons to cover the whole story. I would expect that as we get deeper into the series, some characters and plotlines might be dropped, combined, or altered since the books have a huge cast of characters.

creekdipper
04-16-12, 06:45 PM
So far I like the changes they have made (except for a few unnecessary name changes). The added scenes help to flesh out some major characters whose impact was largely felt off screen. It seems certain that some major characters who remain AWOL throughout much of Book 2 will have scenes moved up from Book 3, both to keep viewers attached to the characters and to 'even out' some of the multitude of events that make Book 3 a veritable firestorm of activity (likewise, the anticipated splitting of Book 3 into two seasons).

I agree that some characters' motivations are now clearer and some even become far more sympathetic than the book portrayals (Theon is the most obvious example). I wouldn't have minded if they had stuck to the timeline from the books, but there are some opportunities to even out the pacing and get the viewers more heavily invested in some characters.

Likewise, I hope that this portends the intentions of the producers to rearrange Books 4 & 5 and to eliminate redundant scenes or scenes with little payoff (or to flesh them out, too). Nothing compares with reading the books for the richness of detail and internal dialogues, but the pacing of the series may actually prove to be an improvement over some of the two most recent books.

At any rate, it's going to be quite a ride. Wish I could wait the ten years or so it's going to take to complete the whole thing and then just lock myself in for a month with the entire saga.

dhmac
04-16-12, 07:08 PM
The series may have to spread out some books into extra seasons simply because George R. R. Martin will not finish the remaining two books in time if the show continues at a season per book pace. Otherwise, the show will completely deviate from the books at some future season because they will run out of ones to film.

lordwow
04-16-12, 07:11 PM
Just a general question from someone who hasn't read the books: Did the first season cover only the first book?
There are 6 books, correct? So can we assume that there will be 6 seasons, one for each book?

The biggest storyline that was extended into the 2nd book in the first season was that Tyrion wasn't named Hand of the King until early in the 2nd book. But the two major storylines that ended the 1st book was: Robb being called upon to be the King and Dany's Dragons was the very end of the book as with the series

Osiris3657
04-16-12, 07:14 PM
Yes, season one is, more or less, the entire first novel.

George R. R. Martin has, so far, written five "A Song of Ice and Fire" novels: A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, and A Dance with Dragons. There are two more novels planned to complete the story, but Martin could add more; he has done so before. Originally, "A Song of Ice and Fire" was going to be three novels.

Season two will cover "A Clash of Kings" but it's possible that they are going to start shuffling some plot elements around so season two could also include some elements from the third novel, and some elements from the second novel could end up in season three.

The third novel will probably be spread across seasons three and four, though I read somewhere that they're looking at something like eight seasons to cover the whole story. I would expect that as we get deeper into the series, some characters and plotlines might be dropped, combined, or altered since the books have a huge cast of characters.

The biggest storyline that was extended into the 2nd book in the first season was that Tyrion wasn't named Hand of the King until early in the 2nd book. But the two major storylines that ended the 1st book was: Robb being called upon to be the King and Dany's Dragons was the very end of the book as with the series

Thanks guys

Dr. DVD
04-16-12, 07:26 PM
They will almost have to combine books four and five and spread that season out over two or more. The 4th and 5th take place simultaneously, but due to the grand scale of the story at that point, most of the major characters we really like are AWOL from the 4th book. That could cause some major issues and confusion for loyal viewers.

Josh-da-man
04-16-12, 07:31 PM
The biggest storyline that was extended into the 2nd book in the first season was that Tyrion wasn't named Hand of the King until early in the 2nd book.

That strikes me as being a really minor change, and a good bit of planning, because that's one less piece of set-up to put in the first episode of season two which was crowded enough. It let them hit the ground running in King's Landing.

One change from the books is with the character Marillion (the troubadour who had to choose between his fingers and his tongue)...

...in the books, I seem to recall that he had a rather important role to play elsewhere in a later book, though that's also something that could be given to another character.

pinata242
04-16-12, 08:36 PM
They addressed that in the commentaries, Josh. They felt it was worth the season one scene :p

CKMorpheus
04-16-12, 09:16 PM
Yoren :(

I actually enjoy Dany's story. Surprised to see so much hate.

Ditto. I can't wait to see what happens with her. She's destined for great things.

Mordred
04-16-12, 11:06 PM
It's interesting how a lot of people really liked the added Theon scenes and felt they made him more sympathetic and understood his motivations. Even though those scenes weren't in the books, it's how I always assumed and knew he must've felt. I wonder if Martin wished he'd devoted more time to that in the books because Theon seemed to be so hated by most readers when it seems as if he wanted him to be a little more sympathetic.

At it's heart he's the son who was given away by his father and he'll do anything to try and make him proud. I always just pitied the guy, even when he is working against our heroes.

MikahC
04-16-12, 11:21 PM
If she is George R. R. Martin

I'm not hissing or anything, but seriously... this is the kind of stuff the spoiler guidelines were created for. Knowledge of future events from reading the books dumped into an episodic thread. I've been expecting any episode now she could come into her own, and now I know not to expect it this season at all. Or the next. Or the next.

JohnSlider
04-16-12, 11:24 PM
Yep. I don't get what's so hard to comprehend about 'If it hasn't been shown on the screen yet, then it can't be discussed outside of spoiler tags.' That has pretty much been the unspoken rule on this site since... well, forever. I'm sure covenant meant no harm by his post, but it's not exactly rocket science.

pinata242
04-17-12, 12:21 AM
Yep, there's a whole thread for things that haven't been directly shown or can be obviously inferred from the series.

JasonF
04-17-12, 01:18 AM
I'm not hissing or anything, but seriously... this is the kind of stuff the spoiler guidelines were created for. Knowledge of future events from reading the books dumped into an episodic thread. I've been expecting any episode now she could come into her own, and now I know not to expect it this season at all. Or the next. Or the next.

If it makes you feel better, I think Martin has done lots of cool things with Dany's storyline, some of which we should see this season.

Tommy Ceez
04-17-12, 05:49 AM
If she is George R. R. Martin hasn't written it yet!

I know this line is a spoiler, but for those who have read it and are pissed..it's an opinion and not a fact.

It's actually a very bad opinion. Do not worry.

This is more of an 'I think she sucks' opinion than 'nothing happens in her storyline' opinion.

There are those of us who think she does TOO MUCH.

There....I have significantly muddied the waters to invalidate the spoiler.

areacode212
04-17-12, 06:21 AM
Yeah, I also always assumed that this is what Theon is like, so I'm glad that the show is exploring his motivations a bit more. Also, Alfie Allen has been doing a great job of playing him.

I'm a book reader, and I don't love Dany herself all that much, but her storyline is interesting.

I really don't like the TV version of Yara/Asha Greyjoy. I always imagined her as someone with a lot more spunk and charisma.

CKMorpheus
04-17-12, 08:11 AM
If she is George R. R. Martin

Thanks for the spoilers. WTF?

Gunde
04-17-12, 09:03 AM
What did I spoil? It's my opinion on the direction of her character arc. Nothing more.
You may (as other people do) think differently.
As a non-book reader I read you post like this:
"Nothing ever really comes of the storyline with Dany and her Dragons"

Seems like big spoiler to me. And I'm sure you disappointed a lot of people who are expecting great things with the dragons.

pinata242
04-17-12, 09:30 AM
Not to mention implying that she lives to at least a certain point in time.

covenant
04-17-12, 10:22 AM
I can't really defend my post for not being a spoiler without creating more spoilers. *sigh*
Sorry guys, I didn't mean any harm. Tommy Ceez and Areacode212 have it right.

Shady12
04-17-12, 10:25 AM
http://pairody.com/images/2010/06/natalie-dormer-100th-anniversary-party-elizabeth-arden-6-480x731.jpg

http://mortenlaursen.com/uploads/tx_templavoila/L7W8525v2_S.jpg

http://images.zap2it.com/images/celeb-488804/natalie-dormer-0.jpg

ick

thematahara
04-17-12, 10:40 AM
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/btb/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/church-lady.jpg

Groucho
04-17-12, 10:42 AM
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9728/warheads1bag.jpg

islandclaws
04-17-12, 10:53 AM
Shame about Yoren, dude was seriously badass.

This show makes my week.

superdeluxe
04-17-12, 11:22 AM
Not to mention implying that she lives to at least a certain point in time.

Yup, that is a spoiler.

Its like talking about what will happen end game with character X,Y,Z. We are spoiling the fact that they are indeed End game characters, and do not perish before then.

superdeluxe
04-17-12, 11:23 AM
Question about the knife in the spine, isn't that considered a 'clean' death? IE he got to keep his head.

DeputyDave
04-17-12, 11:34 AM
Maybe it has something to do with a "warrior's death"? Remember the scene from the beginning of Gladiator where Crowe requested a warrior's death and they prepared to execute him the exact same way?

superdeluxe
04-17-12, 11:57 AM
Maybe it has something to do with a "warrior's death"? Remember the scene from the beginning of Gladiator where Crowe requested a warrior's death and they prepared to execute him the exact same way?

Yeah that was what I was going back to..Maxmius asked for a Warrior's death, Sword through the spine. Nice touch by the writer.

Dr Mabuse
04-17-12, 12:22 PM
It's a quick and fast method of killing. The sword breaks the stem or just below in the spine, all sensation is lost, and then proceeds down into the heart and lungs. No suffering, no gory running through over and over, hacking up, etc.

It was done in the old world as a type of respect of a sort. Unlike in the movies or TV, you can stay alive for many hours or days from even severe wounds to the torso or body, that though in fact mortal, leaves one to suffer in agony until death. Gladiators executed each other in such a way after 'with pressed thumb'.

Just watched this and man it was excellent. 'The Queen must not know'...

I'm guessing The criminals she set free from their cage are going to ambush the remaining soldiers(quite a number were killed), and free the children?

superdeluxe
04-17-12, 12:42 PM
Ryan and Ryan talk about Game of thrones with special Guest Alyssa Rosenberg:

http://web.me.com/mcgeeryan/The_Pod_Squad/Talking_TV_with_Ryan_and_Ryan/rss.xml

Also a section on Mad Men and 'Girls'

pinata242
04-17-12, 01:01 PM
I'm guessing The criminals she set free from their cage are going to ambush the remaining soldiers(quite a number were killed), and free the children?

:lol: Have you not been paying attention to the world GRRM has created? ;) No good deed gets rewarded.

Astrofan
04-17-12, 01:52 PM
To address some points from a page ago--I've said before that they're going to have a very tough, if not impossible, time finishing this series. First it's possible it well be ten years or more before Martin finishes the series. Also he's obese and like Jordan's Wheel of Time, he may die before he finishes it. Second how long do you think you can keep a cast together? Remember:

Some major characters disappear for an entire book.
And children are growing up, adults may have accidents, other projects or just aren't available to film two or three episodes of a 10 episode series.

I think this series is on fire and I'm loving every minute--including Dany! But I'm will to take a bet that without creating an artificial ending around season 4 or so, they will never finish this.

pinata242
04-17-12, 01:54 PM
I don't think the fact that books 4 and 5 are split geographically and not chronologically has any bearing on the series. They're done so they can easily place the scenes in order to keep the cast together.

Astrofan
04-17-12, 01:59 PM
http://images.zap2it.com/images/celeb-488804/natalie-dormer-0.jpg

ick
Man, you guys are tough. If you have lots of pictures taken of you don't be surprised if some not so flattering images show up.

Also not everybody has to be Scarlett Johannson material. Natalie is a very good actress--see The Tudors--with a natural, sexy body. In fact the non-pneumatic breasts, in most of the actresses who are showing their bodies, is quite refreshing.

Nickee
04-17-12, 02:03 PM
To address some points from a page ago--I've said before that they're going to have a very tough, if not impossible, time finishing this series. First it's possible it well be ten years or more before Martin finishes the series. Also he's obese and like Jordan's Wheel of Time, he may die before he finishes it. Second how long do you think you can keep a cast together?

I think I remember reading or hearing somewhere that Martin has told the show's producers how he plans the story to end in case something were to happen to him, they could still finish it out.

superfro
04-17-12, 02:03 PM
Also he's obese and like Jordan's Wheel of Time, he may die before he finishes it.

But is he in ill health? I see people saying this all the time yet every picture I see of the guy in the last 10 years he looks the same.

Astrofan
04-17-12, 02:04 PM
I don't think the fact that books 4 and 5 are split geographically and not chronologically has any bearing on the series. They're done so they can easily place the scenes in order to keep the cast together.
I don't know if you were replying to me, but remember there was a 5 year gap between book 3 and 4. And almost a 6 year gap between books 4 and 5. Also at the end of book 4 Martins says, "This one was a real bitch" or something to that effect. Now, due to the series, the pressures really on and ASOF&I isn't the only thing he wants to write.

Astrofan
04-17-12, 02:05 PM
But is he in ill health? I see people saying this all the time yet every picture I see of the guy in the last 10 years he looks the same.
He may look the same, but you can't exactly call it a picture of health.

pinata242
04-17-12, 02:07 PM
I don't know if you were replying to me, but remember there was a 5 year gap between book 3 and 4. And almost a 6 year gap between books 4 and 5. Also at the end of book 4 Martins says, "This one was a real bitch" or something to that effect. Now, due to the series, the pressures really on and ASOF&I isn't the only thing he wants to write.

Of course I was referring to you because you said in your spoiler that some characters disappear for an entire book, but that doesn't mean they left the world. Their story was just told in a different book.

Astrofan
04-17-12, 02:08 PM
I think I remember reading or hearing somewhere that Martin has told the show's producers how he plans the story to end in case something were to happen to him, they could still finish it out.
Yes, but what about the cast question? I forgot to mention another thing that causes producers problems--money and renewed contract talks. Many of the actors are near impossible to replace--and can you image someone taking over for Dinklage?

superfro
04-17-12, 02:09 PM
He may look the same, but you can't exactly call it a picture of health.

So the guy is fat, that's not an instant death sentence. Everybody talks like the guy is at death's door all the time. And they have been for the last 10+ years. :lol:

Astrofan
04-17-12, 02:10 PM
Of course I was referring to you because you said in your spoiler that some characters disappear for an entire book, but that doesn't mean they left the world. Their story was just told in a different book.
Ah pinata, I don't think it's good to spoil my spoiler-protected comment. You might want to fix that.

Astrofan
04-17-12, 02:11 PM
So the guy is fat, that's not an instant death sentence. Everybody talks like the guy is at death's door all the time. And they have been for the last 10+ years. :lol:
He should only be fat, but he's obese. And certainly it contributes to earlier death and strokes.

pinata242
04-17-12, 02:11 PM
Since this is all conjecture anyway, Dinklage has said time and time again that he loves the role and the series because of how rare an opportunity for someone of his stature it is. He gets to play a strong, powerful, influential man in spite of all of society's prejudices.

I seriously doubt he's going to be such a hard ass over contract negotiations to jeopardize it. It's just as likely he does it pro bono as it is he demands so much he walks away.

pinata242
04-17-12, 02:12 PM
Ah pinata, I don't think it's good to spoil my spoiler-protected comment. You might want to fix that.

Your comment is about the book medium and means nothing about the show. It's not a spoiler. No more than Joffrey not appearing in episodes 2 or 3 this season. That doesn't mean he's off the show.

Astrofan
04-17-12, 02:15 PM
Sorry I kind of derailed this thread, but I was responding to posts made earlier in it. I also think it's better to be overly cautious with potential spoilers for both book reader and series watchers.

pinata242
04-17-12, 02:17 PM
You're preaching to the choir there, I'm the stingiest of stingy when it comes to spoilers. I whine and cry with the best of them.

All I'm saying is that it's not a spoiler and I expect books 4 and 5 to be merged for the series anyway.

covenant
04-17-12, 02:45 PM
Man, you guys are tough. If you have lots of pictures taken of you don't be surprised if some not so flattering images show up.

She wouldn't be so weird looking if she didn't keep doing that smirk. Or at least tone it down a notch.

starman9000
04-17-12, 02:52 PM
I seriously doubt he's going to be such a hard ass over contract negotiations to jeopardize it. It's just as likely he does it pro bono as it is he demands so much he walks away.

Not to mention implying that she lives to at least a certain point in time.

-ohbfrank-

pinata242
04-17-12, 02:53 PM
:lol: Fair and fixed.

sven
04-17-12, 02:56 PM
I don't think we need the fat man to finish the series. If he just gets the next book out in time I think the producers and writers will be more than capable of finishing the story without him.

Astrofan
04-17-12, 03:05 PM
She wouldn't be so weird looking if she didn't keep doing that smirk. Or at least tone it down a notch.
I thought she just got caught in a bad picture. If she has a signature smirk it's not a good look.

Tommy Ceez
04-17-12, 03:05 PM
Look, his massive time between the other books was because he had no pressure externally.

Now he has two options.

1) Write quicker

2) Have a universe he created, toiled over, and loves TAKEN AWAY FROM HIM and finished by some TV writers (which he formerly was)

For any creative person, option #2 is unacceptable

T-bone22
04-17-12, 03:15 PM
I really don't like the TV version of Yara/Asha Greyjoy. I always imagined her as someone with a lot more spunk and charisma.

Same here

Dr Mabuse
04-17-12, 03:43 PM
:lol: Have you not been paying attention to the world GRRM has created? ;) No good deed gets rewarded.

Stop posting spoilers dammit!

;)

Groucho
04-17-12, 03:45 PM
I look forward to seeing what Theon may or may not do next, if he should appear in future episodes.

superdeluxe
04-17-12, 03:52 PM
To address some points from a page ago--I've said before that they're going to have a very tough, if not impossible, time finishing this series. First it's possible it well be ten years or more before Martin finishes the series. Also he's obese and like Jordan's Wheel of Time, he may die before he finishes it. Second how long do you think you can keep a cast together? Remember:

Some major characters disappear for an entire book.
And children are growing up, adults may have accidents, other projects or just aren't available to film two or three episodes of a 10 episode series.

I think this series is on fire and I'm loving every minute--including Dany! But I'm will to take a bet that without creating an artificial ending around season 4 or so, they will never finish this.


It has been stated that GRRM has given a outline to finish the series if he dies to D&D. So rest assured, this will be finished. And just like Brandon Sanderson, they will find a writer to finish out GRRM's works.

superdeluxe
04-17-12, 03:54 PM
I think I remember reading or hearing somewhere that Martin has told the show's producers how he plans the story to end in case something were to happen to him, they could still finish it out.

Damn, always late!

musick
04-17-12, 04:13 PM
She wouldn't be so weird looking if she didn't keep doing that smirk. Or at least tone it down a notch.

yeah, it kind of reminds me of Jack's Joker but whatever

Shady12
04-17-12, 04:49 PM
:lol: Have you not been paying attention to the world GRRM has created? ;) No good deed gets rewarded.

Was gonna say..what do you think this is a Disney production?! haha

Shady12
04-17-12, 04:52 PM
Man, you guys are tough. If you have lots of pictures taken of you don't be surprised if some not so flattering images show up.

Also not everybody has to be Scarlett Johannson material. Natalie is a very good actress--see The Tudors--with a natural, sexy body. In fact the non-pneumatic breasts, in most of the actresses who are showing their bodies, is quite refreshing.

I agree she has a nice body and I have liked her acting(never seen her before this). But I don't like her face. That's what paper sacks are for.

pinata242
04-17-12, 05:00 PM
You guys can just turn her over and pretend she's Loras.

mugwump
04-17-12, 05:19 PM
You guys can just turn her over and pretend she's Loras.

Yes indeed. She might not be every man's cup of tea but she sure is accommodating.

As for the books never being finished I'm pretty ambivalent. When Sanderson took over The Wheel of Time after Jordan's demise the pace and writing actually picked up and the series became readable once again.

Toonview
04-17-12, 06:03 PM
You guys can just turn her over and pretend she's Loras.

LOL! Well played sir, well played.

Astrofan
04-17-12, 06:13 PM
I agree she has a nice body and I have liked her acting(never seen her before this). But I don't like her face. That's what paper sacks are for.

She was thinking the same thing about you! :banana:

GreenMonkey
04-18-12, 09:11 AM
As for the books never being finished I'm pretty ambivalent. When Sanderson took over The Wheel of Time after Jordan's demise the pace and writing actually picked up and the series became readable once again.

There's a difference. Martin is a great writer, and someone else writing the end to a story as complex as ASOIAF would be pretty tough. It's possible, given his admiration for Robin Hobb, that she would be asked to do the job (sheer speculation here as Martin has said she's doing some of the best stuff in modern fantasy and I'm a big Hobb fan). She's my favorite writer, and great with character-driven stories, but picking up ASOAIF and finishing it successfully would be a tough task even for her.

Jordan, on the other hand, is a mediocre writer IMO whose stories kind of spin around and go nowhere ;)

I figure the pace will pick up now. He had a lot of problems putting plotlines together and catching timelines back up to each other after the Feast/Dance split...but it sounds like he's going to have a lot less trouble with the next couple of books.

johnnysd
04-18-12, 09:38 AM
There's a difference. Martin is a great writer, and someone else writing the end to a story as complex as ASOIAF would be pretty tough. It's possible, given his admiration for Robin Hobb, that she would be asked to do the job (sheer speculation here as Martin has said she's doing some of the best stuff in modern fantasy and I'm a big Hobb fan). She's my favorite writer, and great with character-driven stories, but picking up ASOAIF and finishing it successfully would be a tough task even for her.

Jordan, on the other hand, is a mediocre writer IMO whose stories kind of spin around and go nowhere ;)

I'm sure the pace will pick up after A Dance for Dragons. He had a lot of problems putting plotlines together and catching timelines back up to each other after the Feast/Dance split...but it sounds like he's going to have a lot less trouble with the next couple of books.

Interesting. I love Jordan and hate hate Hobb.

The first 6 books of WOT were some of the best fantasy ever written. the story did get a bit unruly after that for a while, but if you think the exact same thing is not happening with Martin now you are fooling yourself.

But if GRRM were to die, I am almost positive that they would have Daniel Abraham finish it. I think Martin will get it done though, he has said it is all downhill from here after he got past the Mereneese Knot, which did not seem to me to big a big deal.

pinata242
04-18-12, 09:45 AM
I'm as guilty of it as anyone else in this thread, but really, these conversations that have nothing to do with the episode in question should be moved to, at the least, the Season 2 Spoilers thread (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/600323-game-thrones-season-2-spoilers-thread-book-discussion-other-materials.html) if not the Book Forum (which is a thing).

superdeluxe
04-18-12, 09:45 AM
Interesting. I love Jordan and hate hate Hobb.

The first 6 books of WOT were some of the best fantasy ever written. the story did get a bit unruly after that for a while, but if you think the exact same thing is not happening with Martin now you are fooling yourself.

But if GRRM were to die, I am almost positive that they would have Daniel Abraham finish it.

Daniel Abraham was mentored by GRRM correct? Would that be a good choice?

CRM114
04-18-12, 11:50 AM
I think most of the Dany haters, such as myself, are book readers. I've always found her chapters hard to slog through. Nice to see that the writers have done a good job of making her storyline interesting on the show for non-book readers.

This is really distressing to read for a non-book reader. She has dragons and I was really hoping that would be an exciting element of the show yet to come. Guess not.

JohnSlider
04-18-12, 11:52 AM
Then you should put it in spoiler tags, too.

argh923
04-18-12, 12:56 PM
People, get over it. seriously. I haven't even read the books, but this is getting out of hand. Now people are complaining about someone saying a character in the book isn't exciting? It's an OPINION.

superfro
04-18-12, 01:08 PM
People, get over it. seriously. I haven't even read the books, but this is getting out of hand. Now people are complaining about someone saying a character in the book isn't exciting? It's an OPINION.

You're missing the point.

It's not about someone's opinion of the character not being exciting, it's the fact that they shed light that certain characters are still kicking around in the latest books. And that in itself is a spoiler when you're dealing with a world such as the one in GoT.

CRM114
04-18-12, 02:46 PM
So the guy is fat, that's not an instant death sentence. Everybody talks like the guy is at death's door all the time. And they have been for the last 10+ years. :lol:

Stanley Kubrick keeled over at an unexpected age. It's wise to have contingency plans. Perhaps then we wouldn't have gotten a digitally altered Eyes Wide Shut.

CRM114
04-18-12, 02:50 PM
Then you should put it in spoiler tags, too.

I don't give a shit about your spoiler bitchfest. I'm just stating it's a bummer if Dany's story with the dragons doesn't become awesome which is what I'm sensing. I was looking forward to that happening but if her story is "boring" I guess it won't. I'm not complaining about it being spoiled.

superfro
04-18-12, 02:56 PM
Stanley Kubrick keeled over at an unexpected age. It's wise to have contingency plans. Perhaps then we wouldn't have gotten a digitally altered Eyes Wide Shut.

Exactly. That even strengthens the point. I put it all to people projecting their nerd fear that they're not going to get to know the ending. Nothing is wrong with the guy's health that I can find, yet everybody has been talking for years about how he's knocking on death's door. :lol:

JohnSlider
04-18-12, 03:18 PM
I don't give a shit about your spoiler bitchfest. I'm just stating it's a bummer if Dany's story with the dragons doesn't become awesome which is what I'm sensing. I was looking forward to that happening but if her story is "boring" I guess it won't. I'm not complaining about it being spoiled.
Is it still too much to ask that you afford your fellow posters who do "give a shit" a little bit of courtesy? Plenty of people explained why this kind of discussion is a spoiler to them, and it obviously annoys and upsets some people here for it to be discussed in the open. Isn't that enough for you to highlight a little bit of text a click a button, or maybe take the discussion to the thread that is actually intended for spoilers?

I don't know why I even come here anymore. So many posters are needlessly lazy and rude.

barelypure
04-18-12, 03:49 PM
I realize they have to cut scenes from the book to fit a book into a season but some of it just takes away a lot of the meaning. For example, Shae living with Tyrion @ Kings Landing. The story in the book is much more engaging. Also, she never became a hand maiden to Sansa but to some other twit, a Lady's daughter, iirc.

The death of Yoren, the escape and eventual capture of Arya and Gendry was some riveting tale in the book but this was so shortened for TV as to be meaningless. And with Arya and Gendry's escape her helping set free the criminals from where they were kept takes on more meaning.

Also, on the trick Tyrion did about marrying off Mycella memory serves that he had a tale about where Tommen would go as well but this was not on TV. But it made the identification of the tattletale more revealing.

Groucho
04-18-12, 03:51 PM
I may be rude and lazy, but it's never needlessly! :mad:

GreenMonkey
04-18-12, 04:21 PM
I don't give a shit about your spoiler bitchfest. I'm just stating it's a bummer if Dany's story with the dragons doesn't become awesome which is what I'm sensing. I was looking forward to that happening but if her story is "boring" I guess it won't. I'm not complaining about it being spoiled.

Not everyone feels the same way about Daeneyrs. There's a certain contingent that's frustrated or annoyed by her but that doesn't make it the truth. Not that anyone should be complaining about this anywhere but the book thread.

Hiro11
04-18-12, 04:32 PM
I'm just stating it's a bummer if Dany's story with the dragons doesn't become awesome which is what I'm sensing. Here's a response, it's fairly non-specific, but definitely a spoiler. Dany's story becomes very interesting in the next few episodes. You will see why dragons are a big deal and why they are essentially the "nuclear weaponry" of this world. You will see what her true personality is. The continuing theme in the story of the true nature of power and what makes a good leader takes on new dimensions in following Dany. You will start to understand a bit about her family history and why they are different from most people. You'll see just how harsh the world this story is set in truly is (the civil war in Westros is child's play compared to the area Dany is heading for). In short, her story becomes one of the most interesting and dangerous.

KirstenS
04-18-12, 04:39 PM
This is really distressing to read for a non-book reader. She has dragons and I was really hoping that would be an exciting element of the show yet to come. Guess not.

My comment had nothing to do with the perceived action moments of Dany's storyline, with or without her dragons. I just can't stand the character, as a fictional human being. I made no mention of what happens to her, or if she lives or dies. I just don't like her.

Josh-da-man
04-18-12, 05:47 PM
Stanley Kubrick keeled over at an unexpected age. It's wise to have contingency plans. Perhaps then we wouldn't have gotten a digitally altered Eyes Wide Shut.

Yeah, Stephen King got run over by a van and was almost killed. And, earlier this year, Clive Barker was in a coma and almost died after a trip to the dentist.

Shit happens.

Thrush
04-18-12, 06:23 PM
Clive Barker was in a coma and almost died after a trip to the dentist.


Classic British Dentistry.

pinata242
04-18-12, 06:48 PM
Yeah, Stephen King got run over by a van and was almost killed.

Good news: because of that, he got motivated to finish The Dark Tower.
Bad news: because of that, he got motivated to finish The Dark Tower.

Tommy Ceez
04-18-12, 09:27 PM
This is really distressing to read for a non-book reader. She has dragons and I was really hoping that would be an exciting element of the show yet to come. Guess not.

Again, Dany chapters are annoying because she is set in foreign lands, not because she doesn't do anything. EXAMPLE. Her chapters have to include a lot more exposition because she's dealing (AND IM ONLY REFERRING TO THE FIRST TWO BOOKS) with non-westeos culture.

dhmac
04-18-12, 11:44 PM
I don't give a shit about your spoiler bitchfest. I'm just stating it's a bummer if Dany's story with the dragons doesn't become awesome which is what I'm sensing. I was looking forward to that happening but if her story is "boring" I guess it won't. I'm not complaining about it being spoiled.
I haven't read the books (yet) so don't know where Dany's storyline is heading, but did look online at the past history of Westeros, when 300 years earlier (I'll spoiler tag, although it's past history not future events)...

Aegon Targaryen, aka Aegon the Conqueror, became the king of Westeros and the 7 kingdoms on it by conquering them all one-by-one with 3 grown dragons under his power. And he established the city of King's Landing on the spot where he first landed on the continent and there he started the Targaryen line, which ended with the overthrow of the Mad King, in which Daenerys belongs.

So maybe something like this ancient history is where Daenerys' story is going with the dragons.

Burnt Thru
04-19-12, 03:51 AM
Yeah, Stephen King got run over by a van and was almost killed. And, earlier this year, Clive Barker was in a coma and almost died after a trip to the dentist.

Shit happens.
Those are unforeseen accidents. In Martin's case he is obese/morbidly obese and as such is due an early death. That's just the way the body works.

The Bus
04-19-12, 06:47 AM
I don't think it's a spoiler to say that Dany will interact with Westeros in the future. Otherwise, what's the point of her being in the story? :lol:

pinata242
04-19-12, 07:38 AM
Well, she did interact with Westeros in that she married some Dothraki Horselord thereby requiring King Robert to order her death when pregnant. This drove a wedge between he and Ned that resulted in Ned's resignation and allowed Jaime the opportunity to confront him on the streets of King's Landing and got him injured and killed most of his men. This took him out of the series of events that lead to Robert's hunting accident and demise and weakened him for the following power play by Cersei.

It doesn't have to be more than that for her to interact with Westeros. She's free to die now ;)

zuffy
04-19-12, 09:35 AM
I start to watch season 1 again. Now knowing the characters and some background, it's much easier to understand the dialogs and the characters. I have a question regarding Jon Arryn's squire, Hugh. Why do Ned care or question why Hugh was knighted after Arryn's death? Am I missing something?

Groucho
04-19-12, 09:37 AM
The implication was that Hugh had something to do with Jon Arryn's murder, and was knighted as his reward.

wishbone
04-19-12, 09:44 AM
http://i43.tinypic.com/4snryu.jpg

And Hugh might have had some higher connections due to his expensive armor -- something he otherwise would not be able to afford.

KirstenS
04-19-12, 09:49 AM
And then, Ser Hugh just happened to be killed in the joust.

chowderhead
04-19-12, 09:59 AM
by Gregor Clegane AKA the Mountain (the dude that killed his own horse at the Hand's tournament). Gregor is brother to Sandor and is a sworn bannerman to the Lannisters.

zuffy
04-19-12, 10:07 AM
OK, thanks.

Wasn't it King Robert that knighted him? Why would he do that if King Robert has nothing to do with Arryn's death since it was the Lannisters?

CRM114
04-19-12, 10:42 AM
Is it still too much to ask that you afford your fellow posters who do "give a shit" a little bit of courtesy? Plenty of people explained why this kind of discussion is a spoiler to them, and it obviously annoys and upsets some people here for it to be discussed in the open. Isn't that enough for you to highlight a little bit of text a click a button, or maybe take the discussion to the thread that is actually intended for spoilers?

I don't know why I even come here anymore. So many posters are needlessly lazy and rude.

WTF are you talking about? I'm merely commenting on a subject that has already been commented about in the open. I never read the books, I don't know anything more than you. Take a pill, dude.

zuffy
04-19-12, 12:53 PM
Another question. Why do King Robert hate the Lannisters so much or is it just everyone hate the Lannisters?

Lastblade
04-19-12, 01:03 PM
There's a difference. Martin is a great writer, and someone else writing the end to a story as complex as ASOIAF would be pretty tough. It's possible, given his admiration for Robin Hobb, that she would be asked to do the job (sheer speculation here as Martin has said she's doing some of the best stuff in modern fantasy and I'm a big Hobb fan). She's my favorite writer, and great with character-driven stories, but picking up ASOAIF and finishing it successfully would be a tough task even for her.

Jordan, on the other hand, is a mediocre writer IMO whose stories kind of spin around and go nowhere ;)

I figure the pace will pick up now. He had a lot of problems putting plotlines together and catching timelines back up to each other after the Feast/Dance split...but it sounds like he's going to have a lot less trouble with the next couple of books.

I used to think GRRM was a great writer, but Feast for Crow and Dance with Dragon changed my mind. I really don't want to read about Westero cuisine any more.

Dave99
04-19-12, 01:07 PM
Another question. Why do King Robert hate the Lannisters so much or is it just everyone hate the Lannisters?

the lannisters have always been the 1%.

wishbone
04-19-12, 01:17 PM
Detailed answer or spoiler not necessary but does the book series ever divulge how the Lannisters became so wealthy?

pinata242
04-19-12, 01:19 PM
Gold mines in the west.

superfro
04-19-12, 01:34 PM
Gold mines in the west.

Also Tywin Lannister shits gold.

Mordred
04-19-12, 01:36 PM
Detailed answer or spoiler not necessary but does the book series ever divulge how the Lannisters became so wealthy?There's a rumor going around that Tywin actually shits gold.

Major spoiler from the books:
This rumor is definitively shown to be false.
Edit: damn you!

CKMorpheus
04-19-12, 04:14 PM
I start to watch season 1 again. Now knowing the characters and some background, it's much easier to understand the dialogs and the characters. I have a question regarding Jon Arryn's squire, Hugh. Why do Ned care or question why Hugh was knighted after Arryn's death? Am I missing something?

The implication was that Hugh had something to do with Jon Arryn's murder, and was knighted as his reward.

http://i43.tinypic.com/4snryu.jpg

And Hugh might have had some higher connections due to his expensive armor -- something he otherwise would not be able to afford.

And then, Ser Hugh just happened to be killed in the joust.

by Gregor Clegane AKA the Mountain (the dude that killed his own horse at the Hand's tournament). Gregor is brother to Sandor and is a sworn bannerman to the Lannisters.

http://celebslife.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/keanu-reeves-whoa.jpg

I... never made that connection. Wow.

Charlie Goose
04-19-12, 10:46 PM
Okay, I've FINALLY caught up after not watching the first season as it initially aired. This is a great show, never boring.

I do have a few questions that I may have missed.
1) Arya Stark is on the run with the older teen boy. The king's guards came looking, and she thought it was for HER, but it was really for HIM. Why does Joffrey want him?

2) Sometimes I'm not great with faces, too many sad faced dudes with wispy beards. The royal that was horsing around with the guy instead of his wife, that's not the queen's brother, is he? That's another gay guy, right?

3) The guys from the Wall. Why are they not at the wall? What are they chasing?

pinata242
04-19-12, 11:23 PM
Okay, I've FINALLY caught up after not watching the first season as it initially aired. This is a great show, never boring.

I do have a few questions that I may have missed.
1) Arya Stark is on the run with the older teen boy. The king's guards came looking, and she thought it was for HER, but it was really for HIM. Why does Joffrey want him?

2) Sometimes I'm not great with faces, too many sad faced dudes with wispy beards. The royal that was horsing around with the guy instead of his wife, that's not the queen's brother, is he? That's another gay guy, right?

3) The guys from the Wall. Why are they not at the wall? What are they chasing?

1) Gendry. He's one of King Robert's bastards. We saw him twice in season 1.

2) That's King Robert's brother, Renly. We saw him several times in season 1.

3) They're north of the wall, hunting wildlings and/or whatever killed their men (remember the severed arm and zombie they brought back). Also looking for their First Ranger, Benjen Stark (Jon Snow's uncle).

andicus
04-20-12, 01:32 AM
You guys can just turn her over and pretend she's Loras.

rotfl

I'm so bummed out over Yoren's death.

As for the spoilers, I had managed to avoid the initial Dany spoiler, but it was restated so many times, I ended up reading it. All I can say is it's fucking disappointing. Both the spoiler and that people aren't more considerate. It's really not difficult.

Charlie Goose
04-20-12, 05:21 AM
1) Gendry. He's one of King Robert's bastards. We saw him twice in season 1.

2) That's King Robert's brother, Renly. We saw him several times in season 1.

3) They're north of the wall, hunting wildlings and/or whatever killed their men (remember the severed arm and zombie they brought back). Also looking for their First Ranger, Benjen Stark (Jon Snow's uncle).

Ah thanks, I remember that now. Gendry doesn't know that he's in line for the throne though, right?

I can't wait for when/if Joffrey gets an asskicking. He's a great villain.

lordwow
04-20-12, 06:19 AM
Okay, I've FINALLY caught up after not watching the first season as it initially aired. This is a great show, never boring.

I do have a few questions that I may have missed.
1) Arya Stark is on the run with the older teen boy. The king's guards came looking, and she thought it was for HER, but it was really for HIM. Why does Joffrey want him?


At the very end of Episode 1 of Season 2, they go killing all the bastards. The blacksmith Gendry was working with spills the beans that he had the helmet and was heading North to the Wall.

chowderhead
04-20-12, 07:14 AM
Ah thanks, I remember that now. Gendry doesn't know that he's in line for the throne though, right?

I can't wait for when/if Joffrey gets an asskicking. He's a great villain.

Gendry really has no real claim to the throne as a bastard child. King Robert would have had to legitimize him to give him any claim. He is dangerous to the Lannisters because of the way he looks i.e. black hair as proof that Cersei's children are not Robert's. No, Gendry doesn't know he is Robert's son.

CRM114
04-20-12, 08:46 AM
Who's the dude Renly is in bed with? Just some random character?

Groucho
04-20-12, 08:48 AM
Who's the dude Renly is in bed with? Just some random character?That's his brother-in-law, Loras Tyrell (the "Flower Knight" from last season).

wishbone
04-20-12, 09:11 AM
Who's the dude Renly is in bed with? Just some random character?http://i42.tinypic.com/omfpv.jpg

<img src=http://i42.tinypic.com/2laei4w.png width=492>

Less straight this season (his hair).

Dr. DVD
04-20-12, 09:45 AM
Here's a response, it's fairly non-specific, but definitely a spoiler. Dany's story becomes very interesting in the next few episodes. You will see why dragons are a big deal and why they are essentially the "nuclear weaponry" of this world. You will see what her true personality is. The continuing theme in the story of the true nature of power and what makes a good leader takes on new dimensions in following Dany. You will start to understand a bit about her family history and why they are different from most people. You'll see just how harsh the world this story is set in truly is (the civil war in Westros is child's play compared to the area Dany is heading for). In short, her story becomes one of the most interesting and dangerous.


I have to say, I have to credit Emilia Clarke for making the character interesting in the series and due to that, giving me someone interesting to visualize in the books. Not really spoilers, but..

Dany's story is definitely one about someone rising to power after being reduced to almost nothing. I am on book three and she is definitely growing into someone that could be considered a power player.

argh923
04-20-12, 12:30 PM
I have a question that is a spoiler - no need for details, just a simple yes or no. Will we see Arya's direwolf - the one she forced to run away after her altercation with Joffrey in Season 1 - again?

pinata242
04-20-12, 12:36 PM
I hope no one answers that publicly. I'll send you a PM.

fujishig
04-20-12, 01:11 PM
When Littlefinger confronts Tyrion, he knows all three of the plots. Does that mean Varys leaked too?

I thought that the opening changes based on what locations would be featured in the show, but I guess it's not as dynamic as I thought. We saw both Dany and Stannis's location in the opening but no scenes from either that I remember...

pinata242
04-20-12, 01:14 PM
Not necessarily. It was clear that Cersei heard the Dorne plan and reacted. Then that plan was laid out in front of the entire council. You don't arrest the Grand Maester without Varys and Baelish finding out instantly. They can put the pieces together without leaking or even talking to each other.

argh923
04-20-12, 01:55 PM
Yeah, don't answer my question anyone, pinata took care of it for me. :) Good stuff. I just started Book 1 last night...I absolutely love this series, the world and the characters. Fantastic.

MikahC
04-20-12, 03:04 PM
I thought that the opening changes based on what locations would be featured in the show, but I guess it's not as dynamic as I thought.

I thought it changed based on what the story has exposed us to of the known world at any given point. So when Dany entered new territory, the intro showed new territory. When we met Stannis, his land was subsequently included.

pinata242
04-20-12, 04:29 PM
They didn't add Storm's End south of King's Landing where Cat went to treat with Renly. They added Dragonstone in episode one and Pyke in episode two.

Defiant1
04-20-12, 10:07 PM
Who's the dude Renly is in bed with? Just some random character?

Did you completely blank out during the prolonged chest shaving/blowjob scene between Renly and Loras last season?

Groucho
04-20-12, 10:11 PM
Did you completely blank out during the prolonged chest shaving/blowjob scene between Renly and Loras last season?He made it through the first 30 seconds or so, and then suddenly lost interest.

JasonF
04-20-12, 10:45 PM
Ah thanks, I remember that now. Gendry doesn't know that he's in line for the throne though, right?

He is not in line for the throne. Bastards have no social standing in Westeros. None. It does not matter who his father was. As far as succession is concerned, he might as well be Yoren's bastard son.

Now, in theory, if Robert was still alive, Robert could legitimize him. Then, in the eyes of Westeros society, he would no longer be a bastard. But with Robert dead, that's not going to happen.

musick
04-20-12, 10:46 PM
Did you completely blank out during the prolonged chest shaving/blowjob scene between Renly and Loras last season?

pretty much the response I was thinking though Loras did look different (hair) in this episode

The Bus
04-20-12, 10:48 PM
:lol:

Draven
04-21-12, 12:54 AM
He is not in line for the throne. Bastards have no social standing in Westeros. None. It does not matter who his father was. As far as succession is concerned, he might as well be Yoren's bastard son.

Now, in theory, if Robert was still alive, Robert could legitimize him. Then, in the eyes of Westeros society, he would no longer be a bastard. But with Robert dead, that's not going to happen.

It baffles me how people are still confused about Robert's bastards.

All of Robert's bastards have dark hair. None of his "legitimate" children do. The rumor is that Jamie is the father (who has blonde hair like Cersei) and the bastards are the proof.

That's it. No lines of succession with the bastards. They just prove Joffery is the product of incest and not Robert's son, therefore the line of succession is supposed to go to Stannis.

fujishig
04-21-12, 01:23 AM
It baffles me how people are still confused about Robert's bastards.

All of Robert's bastards have dark hair. None of his "legitimate" children do. The rumor is that Jamie is the father (who has blonde hair like Cersei) and the bastards are the proof.

That's it. No lines of succession with the bastards. They just prove Joffery is the product of incest and not Robert's son, therefore the line of succession is supposed to go to Stannis.

I don't think they ever spell out how or why a bastard gets legitimized in the show itself so I think it's understandable that people who only watch the show assume they are a threat to take succession of the throne if no legitimate heirs are present.

pinata242
04-21-12, 02:09 AM
It baffles me how people are still confused about Robert's bastards.

All of Robert's bastards have dark hair. None of his "legitimate" children do. The rumor is that Jamie is the father (who has blonde hair like Cersei) and the bastards are the proof.

That's it. No lines of succession with the bastards. They just prove Joffery is the product of incest and not Robert's son, therefore the line of succession is supposed to go to Stannis.

Are you saying "the seed is strong"?

pinata242
04-21-12, 02:10 AM
I don't think they ever spell out how or why a bastard gets legitimized in the show itself so I think it's understandable that people who only watch the show assume they are a threat to take succession of the throne if no legitimate heirs are present.

It doesn't matter. Joffrey sits the throne and there's no proof he shouldn't. There's no Maury in Westeros.

superfro
04-21-12, 02:35 AM
It doesn't matter. Joffrey sits the throne and there's no proof he shouldn't. There's no Maury in Westeros.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m136/Superfro33/Game-of-Thrones-on-Sky-At-007.jpg

creekdipper
04-21-12, 04:05 AM
People, quit worrying about Martin's health. Deep Discount already sent me Books 6-10 along with a tee-shirt to bribe me not to sell them on eBay.

creekdipper
04-21-12, 04:15 AM
RE: Natalie Dormer...I liked her in Tudors (although way too much time was devoted to the Boleyn storyline), but she does need to tone down the smirk. Maybe a production assistant could be assigned to feed her a tablespoon of sugar before she shoots a scene. She & Rene Z. should have a pout-off sometime. I do like Natalie more than I thought I would.

It was humorous watching Renly's uncomfortable reactions & denials while Margaery unabashedly offered every possible scenario to getting him "started" as if she were discussing different ways of arranging the garden to get the best results.

I think that, if done properly, it'd be kinda cool if HBO had a followup show after each episode. Not Talking Dead-style (although I really like the fun approach they take), but just something for us GOT geeks in which episodes are discussed, actors guest, close-up looks are taken, etc. I know they do the "Inside the Episode" and the On Demand extras (which last a couple of minutes each), but there's so much fan interest that it might be fun to see the show discussed.

I'd love to see Youtube Larry get to sit down across from "His ***** Ned" Sean Bean. And there are so many secondary characters that they'd never run out of guests. Heck, just inviting somebody whose character died in that particular episode would give them an endless supply.

superdeluxe
04-21-12, 09:53 AM
Ratings are in for Game of THrones:

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118052931?refCatId=14

Spring tends to sap the ratings strength of just about every show, but some -- including HBO's "Game of Thrones" -- are holding up better than most.

After kicking off its second season with a series-best 3.8 million viewers, the lavish fantasy epic proceeded to deliver about the same number of viewers with each of its three subsequent episodes, according to Nielsen estimates.

This in itself is impressive, as daylight-saving time, school breaks and other spring distractions conspire to drag down the ratings for even TV's biggest hits at this time of year. Also, most shows tend to see ratings declines following their premieres, no matter what time of year.

But for the week of April 9-15, "Game of Thrones" also achieved another impressive feat as it stood as cable's top-rated scripted primetime program for the week in both total viewers and adults 18-49 (see chart, left), topping the likes of FX's "Justified" and AMC's "Mad Men." This despite the fact that HBO is available in roughly 30 million homes, compared with basic-cable biggies like USA and TNT that are available in 100 million or more homes.

HBO isn't necessarily in the ratings game -- the pay cabler cares more about supplying its subscribers with satisfying programming than how a program draws on any single night -- but it can use the initial telecast of any show to garner interest. And "Throne's" average audience for the Sunday 9 p.m. airings this spring (3.8 million) is up about 50% from a year ago (2.3 million).

Looking only at HBO homes, "Thrones" is averaging an 8.3 rating, meaning roughly one in 12 subscriber households is watching the premiere telecast. This is about what TV's most-watched Sunday series, "60 Minutes," was averaging this month.

Of course, nearly everybody who watches the CBS newsmag does so on Sunday night, while HBO gives fans of "Thrones" numerous chances to watch the show every week. If you count the dozen replays on HBO (including two immediately following the initial Sunday telecast) and the network's on-demand service, the show's gross audience surpasses 11 million, compared with 9.3 million for its rookie season, HBO says.

Shinobi
04-21-12, 12:17 PM
Sophie Turner (Sansa) looked gorgeous in this episode. I don't want to knock a teenaged girl's looks, but up until now, I didn't really like her as Sansa. I didn't think she was portrayed as being pretty enough, as Sansa is supposed to be one of the prettiest girls around. BUT I'll now blame that on past hairstyles or makeup or dress, because she finally looked the part tonight.

Sansa is one of my favorite characters in the books, so I'm just picky about how she is portrayed.

On another casting note, the actress playing Brienne is just perfect for this role. It's odd that two of the seemingly most difficult roles to cast for physical reasons, Tryion and Brienne, couldn't have possibly been cast any better. While some of the easier roles to cast have missed the mark, IMO.

dhmac
04-21-12, 02:25 PM
On another casting note, the actress playing Brienne is just perfect for this role. It's odd that two of the seemingly most difficult roles to cast for physical reasons, Tyrion and Brienne, couldn't have possibly been cast any better. While some of the easier roles to cast have missed the mark, IMO.
Those two are perfectly cast.

Which roles do you think should have been cast differently?

Shinobi
04-21-12, 07:18 PM
Those two are perfectly cast.

Which roles do you think should have been cast differently?

I've read the books, and I had pictured Renly as a big, strong, handsome, athletic-type. He's supposed to look like how King Robert looked in his prime. And an important distinction between Renly and Stannis is that people love Renly, so I thought he should be more rugged and handsome. He should look like a movie star or a Westeros star athlete. :)

The current Renly looks a little too wimpy and wishy-washy IMO. And way too common-looking. He doesn't stand out physically. I also think he looks a little too much like Littlefinger, which may have confused some viewers.

I have a few other nit-picks, and they're mainly from slight deviations from the descriptions in the novels. I think Catelyn Stark should look a little younger (actress Jennifer Ehle was originally cast in this role, but dropped out. I think Ehle would have made a better Catelyn). I think Margaery should look younger and more innocent. Yara/Asha Greyjoy doesn't look tough enough. The show's Margaery looks more wicked and more dangerous than the show's Asha, which is odd. Red Priestess Melisandre should be more voluptuous (though I do think the current actress IS super-hot). Davos looks too old. And little Prince Tommen should be a plump little butterball of a boy. I was surprised we got a skinny Tommen.

I'd say a good 90% of the casting is near-perfect on this show (more perfection - Arya, Yoren, Varys, Pycelle, Ned Stark, Drogo, and others). And the ones that aren't perfect are still pretty darn good. Jofferey doesn't have his blonde curls, but the actor is so damn great in the role I don't care. I just like to nit-pick, and like many novel readers, had strong images of these characters in mind for years before the show started, which are hard to shake. But the show is awesome regardless.

spainlinx0
04-21-12, 07:24 PM
I think Tyrion is actually poorly cast, but he's played well. He is not supposed to be attractive at all.

dhmac
04-21-12, 07:36 PM
I'm only on the first book so far, so not enough in for all of the characters seen on the show, so take my comments below from that viewpoint.

As far as physical description and age, the show is way off on most characters - they seldom look very close to what is described and are either clearly older or younger than written. But as for internal features and how they are played, I think the show has done well for representing the characters I've read about so far.

Shinobi
04-21-12, 10:12 PM
A few more thoughts about Margaery, with some general book spoilers about her overall character:

In the books, Margaery is introduced as being young and seemingly innocent, and it isn't until much later that we learn that she's part of much larger schemes.

On the show, they're going a different route with the character, with presenting her as a schemer right off the bat. Her sex talk with Renly also shows right away that she's no innocent young girl.

So while I don't think the actress is right for the book portrayal of Margaery, I suppose she's fine for the show's portrayal of the character.

superdeluxe
04-21-12, 10:53 PM
A few more thoughts about Margaery, with some general book spoilers about her overall character:

In the books, Margaery is introduced as being young and seemingly innocent, and it isn't until much later that we learn that she's part of much larger schemes.

On the show, they're going a different route with the character, with presenting her as a schemer right off the bat. Her sex talk with Renly also shows right away that she's no innocent young girl.

So while I don't think the actress is right for the book portrayal of Margaery, I suppose she's fine for the show's portrayal of the character.

I agree with this point, which is why I wasn't to upset with her

pinata242
04-21-12, 11:16 PM
Seriously, move that shit to the book spoiler thread. It has no business in the weekly show thread, even hidden behind spoiler tags.

Dr. DVD
04-22-12, 07:22 PM
Seriously, move that shit to the book spoiler thread. It has no business in the weekly show thread, even hidden behind spoiler tags.



Okay, since people obviously don't know how to avoid clicking stuff.

Tommy Ceez
04-22-12, 07:54 PM
Seriously, move that shit to the book spoiler thread. It has no business in the weekly show thread, even hidden behind spoiler tags.

Ummm...don't click on the tags

pinata242
04-22-12, 08:00 PM
It's unbelievable to me that you people are still so thick as to miss the point entirely.

Shady12
04-23-12, 10:33 AM
I've read the books, and I had pictured Renly as a big, strong, handsome, athletic-type. He's supposed to look like how King Robert looked in his prime. And an important distinction between Renly and Stannis is that people love Renly, so I thought he should be more rugged and handsome. He should look like a movie star or a Westeros star athlete. :)

The current Renly looks a little too wimpy and wishy-washy IMO. And way too common-looking. He doesn't stand out physically. I also think he looks a little too much like Littlefinger, which may have confused some viewers.

I have a few other nit-picks, and they're mainly from slight deviations from the descriptions in the novels. I think Catelyn Stark should look a little younger (actress Jennifer Ehle was originally cast in this role, but dropped out. I think Ehle would have made a better Catelyn). I think Margaery should look younger and more innocent. Yara/Asha Greyjoy doesn't look tough enough. The show's Margaery looks more wicked and more dangerous than the show's Asha, which is odd. Red Priestess Melisandre should be more voluptuous (though I do think the current actress IS super-hot). Davos looks too old. And little Prince Tommen should be a plump little butterball of a boy. I was surprised we got a skinny Tommen.

I'd say a good 90% of the casting is near-perfect on this show (more perfection - Arya, Yoren, Varys, Pycelle, Ned Stark, Drogo, and others). And the ones that aren't perfect are still pretty darn good. Jofferey doesn't have his blonde curls, but the actor is so damn great in the role I don't care. I just like to nit-pick, and like many novel readers, had strong images of these characters in mind for years before the show started, which are hard to shake. But the show is awesome regardless.

If you were going by ages, size, and hairstyles, you could complain literally about every single casting.

Arya isn't ugly enough("horse face") and is too old(EVERYONE is older on the show), Tyrion isn't ugly enough, and I think is 22 or so when the story starts while Dinklage is about twice that age, Sandor's scar is toned way down and that just doesn't seem like his personality, Melisandre doesn't look right, Cersei doesn't look right, Catelyn doesn't, Renly doesn't, Illyrio- not even close, and so on and so on. King Robert was horrid casting. He's supposed to be huge and towering, 6'6". Fat, yes, but obvious he used to be large and athletic. Mark Addy, well nobody would believe he was every a ripped warrior and is 5'10".

The castings I really like despite any small issues with looks or age are, well, all the Stark kids + Jon, Jorah and his pappy the Night's Watch Commander, Pycelle, Varys, Viserys, Drogo, Tyrion, Joffrey, Theon..may be missing some but those really fit the bill.

JasonF
04-23-12, 06:47 PM
Arya isn't ugly in the books. When they call her horse face, it's because she's got a long Stark face compared to the rounder Tully face. But she's not ugly -- in fact, she looks like Lyanna.

Shady12
04-24-12, 01:15 PM
Arya isn't ugly in the books. When they call her horse face, it's because she's got a long Stark face compared to the rounder Tully face. But she's not ugly -- in fact, she looks like Lyanna.

Realize that actually, but she still might be unattractive, just not flat out ugly. What's read is about how certain people perceive things, once says ugly, another that she looks like Lyanna. But for all we know Lyanna's looks are exaggerated.

Alvis
04-25-12, 08:11 AM
I used to think GRRM was a great writer, but Feast for Crow and Dance with Dragon changed my mind. I really don't want to read about Westero cuisine any more.

You are not wrong.

creekdipper
04-25-12, 09:14 AM
You are not wrong.

It is known.

Cusm
04-25-12, 09:43 AM
It is known.

You know nothing.

starman9000
04-25-12, 09:43 AM
This mummer's farce has no place here. :mad:

superfro
04-25-12, 09:46 AM
Hot Pie!

pinata242
04-25-12, 09:46 AM
Or as near enough to make no matter.

Nefarious
04-25-12, 12:49 PM
Would that I could.

Tommy Ceez
04-25-12, 01:59 PM
Some Lampery pie with glazed peaches and mulled wine