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Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

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Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

Old 03-26-12, 10:13 PM
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Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

There's no discussion thread currently, so I thought I'd combine the two and make one big thread.

Movie:
"Bully" (Starring: Bullies, geeks, dweebs and spazes.)

Release Date:
3/30/2012

Rating:
Unrated (for the Weinsteins not giving into the MPAA)

Running Time:
90min. (1h. 30m.)

Budget:
Under $1 million (estimated)

IMDb Synopsis:
Spoiler:
A documentary on peer-to-peer bullying in schools across America.

IMDb Info and Rating:
6.5 (220 votes as of 3/27/12)

Rotten Tomatoes:
Fresh:09 Rotten:00 (100% as of 3/27/12)

Metacritic:
00 metascore ('Nothing' as of 3/27/12)

Trailer:
<object width="640" height="360"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/W1g9RV9OKhg?version=3&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/W1g9RV9OKhg?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

Poster Art:
Old 03-26-12, 10:16 PM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

... but here's why I want to discuss the film:

SOURCE

Originally Posted by /Film
Here’s the latest update in the battle between Harvey Weinstein and Bully director Lee Hirsch on one side and the MPAA on the other. Weinstein and Hirsch have petitioned the MPAA to lower Bully‘s rating from R to PG-13; the film was rated R solely for the use of foul language by kids filmed for the documentary.

Weinstein petitioned the MPAA to change the rating, hoping that doing so would (he said) help get kids to see the movie. He cited the ratings change for the Iraq War documentary Gunner Palace, released in 2004, which was also originally rated R for language. In the case of Gunner Palace, the MPAA did change the rating, and it went out as a PG-13 movie.

In the case of Bully the MPAA refused to budge, and now The Weinstein Company will release it, unedited, as an unrated film.
So will the National Association of Theater Owners (NATO) make good on a promise to treat it as NC-17 and not let any minors in at all?

In February, Weinstein released part of a letter from NATO which said,

But if you decide to withdraw your support and participation in the rating system, and begin to release movies without ratings, I will have no choice but to encourage my theater owner members to treat unrated movies from The Weinstein Company in the same manner as they treat unrated movies from anyone else. In most cases, that means enforcement as though the movies were rated NC-17 – where no one under the age of 18 can be admitted even with accompanying parents or guardians.

So now we’ll see how that goes. Here’s the full press release announcing the plan to release the film unrated:

March 26, 2012 – New York, NY – After a recent plea to the MPAA by BULLY teen Alex Libby and The Weinstein Company (TWC) Co-Chairman Harvey Weinstein failed – by one vote – to get the film its deserved PG-13 rating, TWC is choosing to move forward with releasing the film unrated by the MPAA on March 30.

Furthering proof that the R rating for some language is inappropriate for a film that’s meant to educate and help parents, teachers, school officials and children with what’s become an epidemic in schools around the country, the fight against the rating continues on. The outpour of support by politicians, schools, parents, celebrities and activists for the film’s mission to be seen by those it was made for – children – has been overwhelming. Nearly half a million people have signed Michigan high school student and former bullying victim Katy Butler’s petition on Change.org to urge the MPAA to lower the rating.

Said BULLY Director Lee Hirsch, “The small amount of language in the film that’s responsible for the R rating is there because it’s real. It’s what the children who are victims of bullying face on most days. All of our supporters see that, and we’re grateful for the support we’ve received across the board. I know the kids will come, so it’s up to the theaters to let them in.”

“The kids and families in this film are true heroes, and we believe theater owners everywhere will step up and do what’s right for the benefit of all of the children out there who have been bullied or may have otherwise become bullies themselves. We’re working to do everything we can to make this film available to as many parents, teachers and students across the country,” said TWC President of Marketing Stephen Bruno.

For parents or teachers who are looking for more information or who may have concerns about showing children a movie unrated by the MPAA, please read Common Sense Media’s rating details of the film here: http://www.commonsensemedia.org/movie-reviews/bully.

“While it’s often heartbreaking and deals with tough issues like suicide, the movie addresses bullying in a frank and relatable way that is age appropriate for teens and relevant for middle schoolers if an adult is present to guide the discussion,” said James P. Steyer, Founder and CEO, Common Sense Media. “The MPAA’s ratings system is inadequate when it comes looking at a movie’s content through the lens of its larger thematic issues. Common Sense Media provides alternative ratings for parents who are looking for more guidance and context than the MPAA provides.”

BULLY will be released in theaters on Friday, March 30th in New York at the Angelika Film Center and AMC Lincoln Square and in Los Angeles at The Landmark, ArcLight Hollywood and AMC Century City.

BULLY is a beautifully cinematic, character-driven documentary. At its heart are those with huge stakes in this issue whose stories each represent a different facet of America’s bullying crisis. Filmed over the course of the 2009/2010 school year, BULLY opens a window onto the pained and often endangered lives of bullied kids, revealing a problem that transcends geographic, racial, ethnic and economic borders. It documents the responses of teachers and administrators to aggressive behaviors that defy “kids will be kids” clichés, and it captures a growing movement among parents and youths to change how bullying is handled in schools, in communities and in society as a whole.
Old 03-26-12, 10:41 PM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

"So will the National Association of Theater Owners (NATO) make good on a promise to treat it as NC-17 and not let any minors in at all?"

why would they? not all unrated films just because they aren't submitted to the MPAA is R or NC-17 in content - sometimes it's a cost effective move from a studio that doesn't have the money to have the film viewed by the ratings board.
Old 03-26-12, 10:51 PM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

I don't quite understand why so many exhibitors won't show unrated films. It's not like they're legally bound to show only rated films.
Old 03-26-12, 11:20 PM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Supermallet
I don't quite understand why so many exhibitors won't show unrated films. It's not like they're legally bound to show only rated films.
If they have to treat it as an NC-17 that would severely limit how many people they can allow in the movie. I would imagine they would rather have a money-making movie on that screen.

Now what I'm wondering is the way that letter was worded... it says:

In most cases, that means enforcement as though the movies were rated NC-17 – where no one under the age of 18 can be admitted even with accompanying parents or guardians.

Does the "in most cases" mean some theaters can go against the policy?
Old 03-26-12, 11:32 PM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

IIRC, a few states enforce MPAA ratings with a law. Most states don't, and it's really just up to the theater to honor it.
Old 03-26-12, 11:33 PM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Supermallet
I don't quite understand why so many exhibitors won't show unrated films. It's not like they're legally bound to show only rated films.
Because of the notion that you have to draw the line somewhere.
Old 03-26-12, 11:34 PM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

I'm glad distributors and exhibitors are making these decisions for us.
Old 03-26-12, 11:41 PM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

Yeah, but that's how it's always been.

We all know stories about how the MPAA will demand a few seconds being trimmed from horror movies, and bullshit like that. It's all about the notion that they are going to draw a line in the sand, and NC-17 is that line. They're going to fuck with movies in little nit-picky ways, force little cuts here and there, or else brand with the dreaded NC-17. And the theater owners collude with this when they refuse to screen NC-17 and unrated films.

If theaters started showing NC-17 movies, it would destroy the intent of the rating. The whole point of NC-17 is to make movies that cross the line untouchable.
Old 03-26-12, 11:42 PM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
Because of the notion that you have to draw the line somewhere.
but not all unrated films are NC-17 in tone - some recent examples are:

Ballad of Genesis and Lady Jaye
Boy
Chico & Rita
Jiro Dreams of Sushi
The Salt of Life
We Have A Pope

and many many others
Old 03-27-12, 12:10 AM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
Yeah, but that's how it's always been.

We all know stories about how the MPAA will demand a few seconds being trimmed from horror movies, and bullshit like that. It's all about the notion that they are going to draw a line in the sand, and NC-17 is that line. They're going to fuck with movies in little nit-picky ways, force little cuts here and there, or else brand with the dreaded NC-17. And the theater owners collude with this when they refuse to screen NC-17 and unrated films.

If theaters started showing NC-17 movies, it would destroy the intent of the rating. The whole point of NC-17 is to make movies that cross the line untouchable.
That's how it's always been =/= that's how it should be.
Old 03-27-12, 06:59 AM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

And everyone knows the kids they aren't letting in talk like that anyway. Getting an r rating for language, especially in a docu of this sort, is stupid. I'd like to see the kind of people they have on these ratings boards that make these decisions.
Old 03-27-12, 09:25 AM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by arminius
And everyone knows the kids they aren't letting in talk like that anyway. Getting an r rating for language, especially in a docu of this sort, is stupid. I'd like to see the kind of people they have on these ratings boards that make these decisions.
supposedly it changes, but rent the doc This Film Is Not Yet Rated to get a sense.
Old 03-27-12, 10:01 AM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

here's the NATO letter in full

Dear Harvey,

The National Association of Theatre Owners partners with the MPAA in the rules and operations of the Classification and Ratings Administration. Exhibition representatives participated yesterday in the appeal of “Bully.” As you know, the appeals board voted to uphold the ratings board’s decision that the prevalence of harsh language in “Bully” warranted an “R” rating. In response, you released a statement criticizing the decision, and threatening to remove your company’s movies from the ratings process.

As the father of a nine-year-old child, I am personally grateful that TWC has addressed the important issue of bullying in such a powerful documentary. The filmmaker and especially the brave young people who participated in this project deserve our attention and respect. Nonetheless, I believe that your public response to the decision of the appeals board is unwise.

Surveys of America’s parents reflect their very strong concern with the use of harsh language in movies. The vast majority of parents surveyed have indicated that the type of language used in “Bully” should receive an automatic “R” rating. You ask us to ignore the preferences of America’s parents and our own ratings rules because of the merit of this movie. Yet were the MPAA and NATO to waive the ratings rules whenever we believed that a particular movie had merit, or was somehow more important than other movies, we would no longer be neutral parties applying consistent standards, but rather censors of content based on personal mores.

You recently released the award-winning movie “King’s Speech” and must know the language rules very well. You should not have been surprised at the rating for “Bully.”

I have nothing but tremendous respect for you and the work of TWC. Our industry is so much the better for your involvement. But if you decide to withdraw your support and participation in the rating system, and begin to release movies without ratings, I will have no choice but to encourage my theater owner members to treat unrated movies from The Weinstein Company in the same manner as they treat unrated movies from anyone else.

In most cases, that means enforcement as though the movies were rated NC-17 – where no one under the age of 18 can be admitted even with accompanying parents or guardians.

Thank you for your consideration of these thoughts. And the best of luck to you on Sunday.

Sincerely yours,

John Fithian
President & CEO
NATO


here's NATO's email to send them what you think about President John Fithian's ignorant stance on the subject: [email protected].

Honestly I'm shocked on NATO's overall blanket stance on unrated films. They give the MPAA way to much leniency

Last edited by Giles; 03-27-12 at 10:07 AM.
Old 03-27-12, 10:31 AM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Giles
but not all unrated films are NC-17 in tone - some recent examples are:

Ballad of Genesis and Lady Jaye
Boy
Chico & Rita
Jiro Dreams of Sushi
The Salt of Life
We Have A Pope

and many many others
Super Size Me originally went out unrated, but ended up getting a PG-13 once actually rated by the MPAA.
Old 03-27-12, 10:48 AM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

What's really funny about that letter is the implication that the MPAA treats every movie equally. Anyone who has seen This Film Is Not Yet Rated knows they do not.
Old 03-27-12, 10:51 AM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel
Super Size Me originally went out unrated, but ended up getting a PG-13 once actually rated by the MPAA.
actually there are two cuts of the film according to MPAA's database:

PG-13: for language, sex and drug references and a graphic medical procedure

"Educational Enhanced" version: Rated PG for thematic elements, a disturbing medical procedure, and some language
Old 03-27-12, 10:54 AM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Supermallet
What's really funny about that letter is the implication that the MPAA treats every movie equally. Anyone who has seen This Film Is Not Yet Rated knows they do not.
and what the doc also notes, is that someone (one of the raters I assume) actual has a count sheet of how many expletives are uttered during the course of the movie
Old 03-27-12, 10:58 AM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

Anderson Cooper's daytime show today has been talking about the movie. Kids (and parents) from the movie along with the director are showing clips and it's heart-wrentching. My god, this film needs to be seen. Kids need to see this film. I hope it can make a difference.
Old 03-27-12, 11:05 AM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by TomOpus
Anderson Cooper's daytime show today has been talking about the movie. Kids (and parents) from the movie along with the director are showing clips and it's heart-wrentching. My god, this film needs to be seen. Kids need to see this film. I hope it can make a difference.
last week on 'Ellen' one of the families was interviewed and it was equally heart wrentching, and it was the last portion of the show, it was a downer of an ending but highly emotional.
Old 03-27-12, 11:15 AM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

I'll check her website for the clip. Her show out here comes on a lot earlier than when I was in San Diego.

Oh, the woman in the trailer claiming the kids on the bus "are good as gold" because she rode that bus...is the school principal. Gee I wonder why they behaved themselves with the principal riding along.
Old 03-27-12, 11:27 AM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Giles
and what the doc also notes, is that someone (one of the raters I assume) actual has a count sheet of how many expletives are uttered during the course of the movie
Would bleeping the expletives give this film a more "friendly" rating? If so could it be released with bleeps for a wider audience and also released unedited for those that can see the original version?

I understand that kids curse like this everyday but when I hear a barrage of obscenity -- even as an adult -- it wears on me and I tend to tune it out. This seems like an important film for this generation of kids to see so I hope that families will have a chance to see it.
Old 03-27-12, 11:31 AM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

honestly, the bleeping would be for the benefit for the parents, parents for the most part think or want to think their kids are little angels and dont know one single naughty word - jeesh, get a clue folks.

actually for the most part, I think kids are more embarrassed in having to watch R-rated film with their parents in fear of the conversation afterwards regarding sex or vulgur language "tell me something I don't know already or I haven't heard on the playground"
Old 03-27-12, 01:06 PM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Giles
actually there are two cuts of the film according to MPAA's database:

PG-13: for language, sex and drug references and a graphic medical procedure

"Educational Enhanced" version: Rated PG for thematic elements, a disturbing medical procedure, and some language
I saw the film during its original theatrical run where there was a warning at the box office that the film was Unrated and contained scenes with graphic medical images. However, this was at a Century theatre (before being purchased by Cinemark) and they allowed anyone/everyone into the theater. The "Unrated" cut of the film is that of the PG-13 edit; Spurlock made minute changes to get a PG version out for schools to show the film.

However, I remember when Y Tu Mamá También came out at the same theater and there was an usher in front of the specific auditorium making sure not a single individual under the age of 17 made their way in.

Theaters should be able to make the call, it all depends on content. However, I feel like Bully is a film all children, teenagers, parents and teachers/school employees NEED to see.

Originally Posted by wishbone
Would bleeping the expletives give this film a more "friendly" rating? If so could it be released with bleeps for a wider audience and also released unedited for those that can see the original version?
Bleeping the profanity would be able to secure a PG-13, but why? That ruins the impact and point the film is trying to make. These kids are being both physically and verbally abused. Why hide it?
Old 03-27-12, 01:45 PM
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Re: Bully (Hirsch, 2012) - The (Discussions and) Reviews Thread

I favor the unedited version. But if they are going for a pg13 rating I would prefer bleeping rather than cutting. It still has an impact that way. Too many bleeps in a row though would start making it funny.

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