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View Full Version : The Republican Field and Primary Thread (Part 3)


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Venusian
02-10-12, 02:13 PM
I don't see why women aren't included in the draft and allowed to be in combat positions.

Navinabob
02-10-12, 02:28 PM
where do you see that? everything i've seen says they aren't or haven't spoken out yet.


does this mean if a catholic hospital and another hospital got the same policy and catholics said they dont want to cover contraceptives, that their costs are less?

The Catholic Health Association released a statement this morning, the article claimed other catholic groups were happy as well (but listed none by name). Going through Google articles from the last hour or so, it appears some are still not happy. But again, unless Rowe/Wade is tossed aside, I don't think they will ever be happy. The Catholic Bishops seem still still want no coverage, in any plan, for any employee, and will accept nothing less.

CRM114
02-10-12, 02:30 PM
Utter nonsense, but the majority do believe and repeat such tripe.

It is so richly ironic to read someone defending mythology call something else "utter nonsense."

PopcornTreeCt
02-10-12, 02:35 PM
First of all, I find Senator Santorum's comments absolutely disgusting. That a top contender fo rthe presidency could say something so thoroughly ignorant is a sad reflection on the times in which we live. If there were any justice in the world, he would be outcast forever from society for making this statement. So let me be clear, Senator Santorum: Something can not be "even more unique." Things are either unique or they are not. There are not degrees of uniqueness.

As for the substance of his comments, I'd love to hear somebody ask him about the IDF.

Santorum also championed the Crusades and thinks everyone on the left hates Western civilization. To me, it's amazing that you can be a top contender for the presidency and be opposed to same-sex marriage (and that includes Obama). It's like an open racist running for president and everyone is okay with it.

CRM114
02-10-12, 02:40 PM
But again, you'd think liberals would learn that stuff like this motivates the Republican base and would THINK before forcing stuff like this, but alas...

Guess Obama wants a fired up religious base coming out to vote for WHOEVER the Republican is because they're fighting the devil!!

Some hear war on religion. Some hear war on birth control. I'd love if the Repubs ran against birth control. How archaic.

And I apologize profusely if that post did not meet JasonF's civility test.

CRM114
02-10-12, 02:41 PM
You clearly have no concept of what it's like to live in poverty. The poor people I know (and I know a lot of poor people) have never been inside a Starbucks.

Oh please. They have AC, a TV, and a cell phone. They have it made.

Numanoid
02-10-12, 02:42 PM
One of my agents is pregnant. She continually refers to this as her baby. Wait until she tries that shit again. "That's a fetus, and not a baby. Just ask Numanoid....he has dictionary facts on his side."

:lol:Ah yes, the old Republican tactic of mocking facts.

wendersfan
02-10-12, 02:50 PM
Oh, so they're lazy as well as poor. ;)
:lol:

Superboy
02-10-12, 02:54 PM
You clearly have no concept of what it's like to live in poverty. The poor people I know (and I know a lot of poor people) have never been inside a Starbucks.

Really? the poor people I know go to coffee shops where you can see this:

NSFW:

http://s3-media2.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/-dPP4-5V4dmjdsRBCkxqDw/l.jpg

And the coffee is still $5 at cup.

JasonF
02-10-12, 03:04 PM
The Catholic Bishops seem still still want no coverage, in any plan, for any employee, and will accept nothing less.

Of course Catholic bishops don't care about ready access to birth control. You can't impregnate an altar boy.

CRM114
02-10-12, 03:12 PM
That wasn't very civil.

Superboy
02-10-12, 03:17 PM
Of course Catholic bishops don't care about ready access to birth control. You can't impregnate an altar boy.

That's not fair. You're going to give women the mistaken impression that anal sex is a good way to avoid pregnancy.

Tracer Bullet
02-10-12, 03:21 PM
and only blacks should speak out against slavery

What?

Sean O'Hara
02-10-12, 03:28 PM
So let me be clear, Senator Santorum: Something can not be "even more unique." Things are either unique or they are not. There are not degrees of uniqueness.

Sure there are -- an object that belongs to a class of similar objects but is unique due to a particular combination of features is less unique than an object that is the only one of its kind. If scientists managed to clone a brontosaurus, the first one would be unique in the modern world to a higher degree than a snowflake or a fingerprint.

kvrdave
02-10-12, 04:38 PM
It's interesting to me how many guys here think they have any sort of perspective to weigh in on birth control pills. Like abortion, those against it seems to predominately be those who will never have to deal with it.

Men should stop having opinions about abortions when women can stop forcing them to pay for child support. If a guy wants the woman to have an abortion and she won't, she shouldn't be able to get child support.

Tracer Bullet
02-10-12, 04:42 PM
I think straight people should just stop fucking.

kvrdave
02-10-12, 04:42 PM
Ah yes, the old Republican tactic of mocking facts.

:lol: Facts. So you expect people to initially use "zygote" as well? Hang around pregnant people and see how often the term "fetus" is used.

kvrdave
02-10-12, 04:43 PM
Santorum also championed the Crusades and thinks everyone on the left hates Western civilization. To me, it's amazing that you can be a top contender for the presidency and be opposed to same-sex marriage (and that includes Obama). It's like an open racist running for president and everyone is okay with it.

I think that probably indicates the level to which Obama sucks.

Draven
02-10-12, 08:08 PM
and only blacks should speak out against slavery

Ok. Fine. I can see the counterpoints so I won't bother arguing. However, it's easy for men to talk about what women should and shouldn't do when it comes to reproductive issues. Because they will never ever have to deal with them personally. Talk is cheap.

Josh-da-man
02-10-12, 08:27 PM
But again, you'd think liberals would learn that stuff like this motivates the Republican base and would THINK before forcing stuff like this, but alas...

Guess Obama wants a fired up religious base coming out to vote for WHOEVER the Republican is because they're fighting the devil!!

The religious base is going to be fired up and vote for whoever the republican party nominates anyway. They'll even hold their noses and vote for a Mormon if they have to.

This kind of stuff, on the other hand, can turn off moderates and push them into the Obama column. And that's where you win elections -- there are people out there who will vote for Obama no matter what, and there are people who will vote against him no matter what, and there are the people who are uncommitted.

This "war on religion" nonsense isn't going to swing anyone to the republican side.

Josh-da-man
02-10-12, 08:31 PM
They can't afford it after spending a hundred dollars on lotto tickets and cigarettes.

That's sort of a lowball estimate. Between beer, cigarettes, lottery tickets, and tattoos, they're spending more than one hundred bucks a month.

mosquitobite
02-10-12, 08:38 PM
This "war on religion" nonsense isn't going to swing anyone to the republican side.

Damn, tell that to John Kerry.

While I know Obama is a far better candidate, (gay marriage) the war on religion did indeed push Bush up. I do blame those ballot initiatives with how he got a second term. Rovian.

JasonF
02-10-12, 08:44 PM
Sure there are -- an object that belongs to a class of similar objects but is unique due to a particular combination of features is less unique than an object that is the only one of its kind. If scientists managed to clone a brontosaurus, the first one would be unique in the modern world to a higher degree than a snowflake or a fingerprint.

Do you consider a woman carrying twins to be more pregnant that a woman carrying one baby? Unique is an absolute.

wishbone
02-10-12, 08:49 PM
Must you use the Republican tactic of mocking facts? :mad:

Numanoid
02-10-12, 10:15 PM
:lol: Facts. So you expect people to initially use "zygote" as well? Hang around pregnant people and see how often the term "fetus" is used.By "pregnant people" (they're usually women, by the way), I assume you mean those that know they are pregnant, have been pregnant for some time, and are planning to give birth in full anticipation of having a baby. I don't imagine you mean women who have just completed a home pregnancy test and are planning to terminate the pregnancy at the earliest opportunity (who are as equally qualified as "pregnant people" as the former). Those women tend to use the proper terminology, since they do not anticipate the one-day arrival of a "baby". It's actually pretty simple to understand, people will often describe something based on a predictor. If I'm told that I am going to inherit a million dollars, but I won't be paid for six months, I might very well walk around telling everyone that I'm a millionaire. But until that money is in my hands, the truth is that I am no more a millionaire now than I was. If I don't plan on accepting the money, I won't be telling anyone that I'm a millionaire.

Just admit it, anti-abortionists consciously use that term because it packs more of an emotional wallop than the simple truth.

Artman
02-10-12, 10:19 PM
However, it's easy for men to talk about what women should and shouldn't do when it comes to reproductive issues. Because they will never ever have to deal with them personally.

Which is why I asked about the cost of birth control pills, turns out it was even lower than I gave credit for. I consider myself a reasonable guy, if I'm unsure of something, I ask. :)

Jason
02-10-12, 10:22 PM
Do you consider a woman carrying twins to be more pregnant that a woman carrying one baby? Unique is an absolute.

One baby at a time makes having a quiver full a very slow process. Step it up, ladies!

Artman
02-10-12, 10:25 PM
By "pregnant people" (they're usually women, by the way), I assume you mean those that know they are pregnant, have been pregnant for some time, and are planning to give birth in full anticipation of having a baby. I don't imagine you mean women who have just completed a home pregnancy test and are planning to terminate the pregnancy at the earliest opportunity (who are as equally qualified as "pregnant people" as the former). Those women tend to use the proper terminology, since they do not anticipate the one-day arrival of a "baby". It's actually pretty simple to understand, people will often describe something based on a predictor. If I'm told that I am going to inherit a million dollars, but I won't be paid for six months, I might very well walk around telling everyone that I'm a millionaire. But until that money is in my hands, the truth is that I am no more a millionaire now than I was. If I don't plan on accepting the money, I won't be telling anyone that I'm a millionaire.


I could go along with your viewpoint if you would not consider a pregnant woman's life any more meaningful than one who wasn't pregnant. She get's murdered, she's one person up until an umbilical cord is severed. That to me would be consistent. Frankly, given the setup we have now that should be the law.

Sean O'Hara
02-10-12, 10:44 PM
Do you consider a woman carrying twins to be more pregnant that a woman carrying one baby? Unique is an absolute.

So is "perfect," yet the Constitution says "more perfect Union" -- do you think the drafters were idiots for saying that or do you recognize the phrase means "closer to perfect"? Unique is no different -- there are orders of uniqueness, starting with "generally like other things but with traits that set it apart" to "totally unlike anything else in existence." Something that is closer to the latter is "more unique".

Josh-da-man
02-10-12, 10:51 PM
If life begins at conception, then why do we measure the length of our lives starting with the day we were born, and not the day we were conceived?

wmansir
02-10-12, 11:17 PM
Because celebrating the day your parents fucked would be weird.

movielib
02-10-12, 11:24 PM
So is "perfect," yet the Constitution says "more perfect Union" -- do you think the drafters were idiots for saying that or do you recognize the phrase means "closer to perfect"? Unique is no different -- there are orders of uniqueness, starting with "generally like other things but with traits that set it apart" to "totally unlike anything else in existence." Something that is closer to the latter is "more unique".
That makes me think back to my high school math teacher who explained different levels of infinity. Some were more infinite than others.

For instance, there are an infinite number of integers. But there are an infinite number of rational numbers between each integer (integers are also rational numbers) so that is a "bigger" infinity. And there are an infinite number of irrational numbers and an infinite number of rational numbers between any two rational numbers (and real numbers include all rational and irrational numbers) so the real numbers are an even "bigger" infinity.

And now I have a unique and infinite headache.

dork
02-10-12, 11:32 PM
For instance, there are an infinite number of integers. But there are an infinite number of rational numbers between each integer (integers are also rational numbers) so that is a "bigger" infinity.
No, it's not.

movielib
02-11-12, 12:11 AM
No, it's not.
You're right and this page explains it:

http://www.mathacademy.com/pr/minitext/infinity/

I do remember the one-to-one correspondence and countability concepts now and I remember my math teacher explaining it.

But my second example is correct although I didn't explain it well. The real numbers are not countable.

Give me a break, I was in high school 50 years ago.

kvrdave
02-11-12, 02:21 AM
By "pregnant people" (they're usually women, by the way), I assume you mean those that know they are pregnant, have been pregnant for some time, and are planning to give birth in full anticipation of having a baby. I don't imagine you mean women who have just completed a home pregnancy test and are planning to terminate the pregnancy at the earliest opportunity (who are as equally qualified as "pregnant people" as the former). Those women tend to use the proper terminology, since they do not anticipate the one-day arrival of a "baby". It's actually pretty simple to understand, people will often describe something based on a predictor. If I'm told that I am going to inherit a million dollars, but I won't be paid for six months, I might very well walk around telling everyone that I'm a millionaire. But until that money is in my hands, the truth is that I am no more a millionaire now than I was. If I don't plan on accepting the money, I won't be telling anyone that I'm a millionaire.

Just admit it, anti-abortionists consciously use that term because it packs more of an emotional wallop than the simple truth.


Ah, so those women with a home pregnancy test who are planning to terminate the preganancy post haste will use the proper terminology like zygote, unless it is a little later when they will call it a blastocyst, and then move on to embryo. You see, I only hear the term "fetus" used when "baby" is not, and that stage isn't until 9 weeks after conception. Seems like longer than the typical home pregnancy test timeline.

I'm not an anti-abortionist. But it is just as silly to think that pro-abortionists use the term "fetus" (incorrectly even, which must really bother you :lol: ) for some reason other than to dehumanize the being that is about to be killed and diminish what is actually taking place. Would you prefer the term "not alive anymore" instead of killed? Wouldn't there be some good dictionary facts for the use of the word "killed?"


1. to deprive of life in any manner; cause the death of; slay.
2. to destroy; do away with; extinguish
3. to destroy or neutralize the active qualities of


I'm sure you'll work hard to use the proper terminology in the future and not use words that inadequately describe it such as "abort" or "terminate."

"Are you going to kill the blastocyst now or wait until it is an embryo? Don't wait too long as killing a fetus is much more involved."

Jason
02-11-12, 09:03 AM
All this talk about integers and people's parents fucking is fascinating and all, but you do realize the traveling circus is in Maine today, right?

crazyronin
02-11-12, 09:08 AM
If life begins at conception, then why do we measure the length of our lives starting with the day we were born, and not the day we were conceived?

Because it's birthday, not fuckday.

hint: one event is more notable than the other.

Th0r S1mpson
02-11-12, 09:50 AM
Ron Paul has somewhere between a 20 and 60 percent chance of WINNING Maine. It could be 25%. It could be 25.00001%. It could be 25.0573333%.

When you boil the numbers down, he has an INFINITE number of chances to win. Romney's chances are a bigger infinity, with better hair.

Tracer Bullet
02-11-12, 10:28 AM
You're right and this page explains it:

http://www.mathacademy.com/pr/minitext/infinity/

I do remember the one-to-one correspondence and countability concepts now and I remember my math teacher explaining it.

But my second example is correct although I didn't explain it well. The real numbers are not countable.

Give me a break, I was in high school 50 years ago.

Damn, I didn't realize you were that old.

crazyronin
02-11-12, 11:02 AM
All this talk about integers and people's parents fucking is fascinating and all, but you do realize the traveling circus is in Maine today, right?

It's been here all week. Maine caucus lasts from Tuesday through Saturday, with precinct caucuses occurring on various days or lasting all week (with caucus going on every evening. They release the results of the straw poll today.

i've told you and told you people that this state is weird, but you just don't believe.

movielib
02-11-12, 04:45 PM
Damn, I didn't realize you were that old.
Only 65. I'm the spring chicken version of classicman or Old Dude.

Jason
02-11-12, 05:21 PM
It's been here all week. Maine caucus lasts from Tuesday through Saturday, with precinct caucuses occurring on various days or lasting all week (with caucus going on every evening. They release the results of the straw poll today.

i've told you and told you people that this state is weird, but you just don't believe.

Wow, that's gotta be fun. Have you even seen a non-political ad on TV this week?

crazyronin
02-11-12, 05:25 PM
This is the week for OnDemand.

wmansir
02-11-12, 05:42 PM
Santorum and Newt rather wisely decided to skip Maine. I don't think either would have had much of a shot at winning (well, maybe Newt with his populist rhetoric) and by not showing up they deny Romney a chance to recapture any momentum.

movielib
02-11-12, 05:45 PM
It's been here all week. Maine caucus lasts from Tuesday through Saturday, with precinct caucuses occurring on various days or lasting all week (with caucus going on every evening. They release the results of the straw poll today.

i've told you and told you people that this state is weird, but you just don't believe.
With all that Stephen King stuff and now Once Upon a Time of course it's weird.

Th0r S1mpson
02-11-12, 07:11 PM
Well, Ron Paul fell short of a (non-binding) win in Maine. Romney back in action. Plus Romney scored a victory in a CONSERVATIVE straw poll.

Not looking good for Paul fans, though I expect the usual hopeful disregard of actual results.

Bummer. I was really hoping he'd pull through in Maine.

Navinabob
02-11-12, 08:35 PM
Revealed: Wife of pro-life presidential candidate Rick Santorum had love affair with abortion doctor 40 years her senior... who delivered her as baby


A mix of old and new details... Some of the new details really won't help his bid any. But, as scandals go, pretty mild.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2087812/Rick-Santorums-wife-Karen-love-affair-abortion-doctor.html

kvrdave
02-11-12, 09:33 PM
Only 65. I'm the spring chicken version of classicman or Old Dude.

Damn, I remember back when you were 54.

mosquitobite
02-11-12, 09:46 PM
Well, Ron Paul fell short of a (non-binding) win in Maine. Romney back in action. Plus Romney scored a victory in a CONSERVATIVE straw poll.

Not looking good for Paul fans, though I expect the usual hopeful disregard of actual results.

Bummer. I was really hoping he'd pull through in Maine.

Why wouldn't we disregard the results?

This morning when they canceled the Washington Co (population:30,000+) caucuses because of weather ... there was no snow. Surely Maine can handle a threat of snow? Surely they deal with it enough they know when or not it's a risk?
http://www.necn.com/02/11/12/GOP-caucus-in-eastern-Maine-postponed-du/landing_politics.html?&apID=8fb6ed9037244211a519d1a53b5cf3b0

No snow til after midnight tonight.
http://i39.tinypic.com/2webdyh.jpg

That county now simply...does not matter. The GOP leaders there have said no matter the outcome of those votes, they won't change the "winner".

So a contest where Romney won by less than 200 is declared OVER.

What does a disenfranchised voter look like again?

The GOP just told a whole county: "oops sorry about that weather that never came - but your vote DOESN'T COUNT"

(does it matter to anyone that that county was supposedly a strong Ron Paul stronghold?)

starman9000
02-11-12, 09:50 PM
Revealed: Wife of pro-life presidential candidate Rick Santorum had love affair with abortion doctor 40 years her senior... who delivered her as baby


A mix of old and new details... Some of the new details really won't help his bid any. But, as scandals go, pretty mild.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2087812/Rick-Santorums-wife-Karen-love-affair-abortion-doctor.html

Why would that hurt his bid at all?

Artman
02-11-12, 10:18 PM
A mix of old and new details... Some of the new details really won't help his bid any. But, as scandals go, pretty mild.

It isn't a scandal at all, just a below the belt and irrelevant story. Anyone who is a supporter of Santorum I don't think would care.

Just out of curiosity, you do understand the concept that people of faith do not claim perfection correct? The act of accepting Christ's sacrifice is acknowledging the absolute inadequacy of yourself - past, present, and future.

Jason
02-11-12, 10:39 PM
This morning when they canceled the Washington Co (population:30,000+) caucuses because of weather ...

<snip>

(does it matter to anyone that that county was supposedly a strong Ron Paul stronghold?)

Less than 5,600 people, or 0.4% of the population of the entire state voted. If the same ratio voted in Washington county, and every single one of them voted for RON PAUL, he still would have lost.

kvrdave
02-11-12, 10:49 PM
Revealed: Wife of pro-life presidential candidate Rick Santorum had love affair with abortion doctor 40 years her senior... who delivered her as baby


A mix of old and new details... Some of the new details really won't help his bid any. But, as scandals go, pretty mild.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2087812/Rick-Santorums-wife-Karen-love-affair-abortion-doctor.html

Seems like a stretch to think it will matter. She was an early 20 year old who wasn't married. He was an old dude that wasn't married. It looks more like they used the term "affair" so that they could imply an affair.

movielib
02-11-12, 10:58 PM
Damn, I remember back when you were 54.
I wish I could remember it. :sad:

Holy shit. I just realized classicman was younger then than I am now. :sad:

Th0r S1mpson
02-11-12, 11:08 PM
Less than 5,600 people, or 0.4% of the population of the entire state voted. If the same ratio voted in Washington county, and every single one of them voted for RON PAUL, he still would have lost.

So you're telling me Obama used his weather machine for no good reason?

mosquitobite
02-11-12, 11:22 PM
Less than 5,600 people, or 0.4% of the population of the entire state voted. If the same ratio voted in Washington county, and every single one of them voted for RON PAUL, he still would have lost.

And then... so why not let those votes count?

Josh-da-man
02-11-12, 11:22 PM
Seems like a stretch to think it will matter. She was an early 20 year old who wasn't married. He was an old dude that wasn't married. It looks more like they used the term "affair" so that they could imply an affair.

A twenty year old woman who starts dating the sexagenarian OB/GYN who performed an abortion on her. Sounds like the premise for a sitcom.

dork
02-11-12, 11:29 PM
A twenty year old woman who starts dating the sexagenarian OB/GYN who performed an abortion on her. Sounds like the premise for a sitcom.
"Scraping By" -- Mondays after "Rizzoli & Isles"!

Sean O'Hara
02-11-12, 11:38 PM
Revealed: Wife of pro-life presidential candidate Rick Santorum had love affair with abortion doctor 40 years her senior... who delivered her as baby


A mix of old and new details... Some of the new details really won't help his bid any. But, as scandals go, pretty mild.

And yet you decided to repeat it anyway. Are you trying to be Rush Limbaugh, sticking your nose into some woman's panty drawer because she's related to a politician you dislike?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2087812/Rick-Santorums-wife-Karen-love-affair-abortion-doctor.html

The Daily Mail, really?

Jason
02-11-12, 11:56 PM
And then... so why not let those votes count?

It was due to stupidity, not conspiracy.

Jason
02-11-12, 11:57 PM
And yet you decided to repeat it anyway. Are you trying to be Rush Limbaugh, sticking your nose into some woman's panty drawer because she's related to a politician you dislike?


I wonder what the reaction would be like if we found out that Michelle Obama was banging Bill Ayres?

Navinabob
02-12-12, 01:40 AM
Personally, I don't care if she gave abortions. I don't consider "abortion" a sin Artman, she did nothing in my eyes to make me think that she needs to be forgiven 40 years ago. "Living in sin" isn't a big deal to me... Now, Santorum on the other hand, is a douche of the highest caliber. His followers love the fact that he wants to criminalize giving abortions... To some them, they might feel that him being according her, "pro-life" 20 years ago, a bit of a scandal. Some might question how much of his views is just pandering to them. Will most of them look past this? Yes. If the same story came out about Michelle Obama, would they "look past it" do you think?

orangecrush
02-12-12, 01:42 AM
If I were designing the healthcare system from the ground up, I might agree with you. But we're basically stuck for the foreseeable future with a system where people are dependent on their employers for health care. And if that's the way it is, I think it is appropriate for the government to outline minimum standards of what an employer must provide.
The various departments of insurance do just that. Some states mandate that all policies must have coverage for maternal care, for example.

Sean O'Hara
02-12-12, 02:00 AM
A twenty year old woman who starts dating the sexagenarian OB/GYN who performed an abortion on her. Sounds like the premise for a sitcom.

Personally, I don't care if she gave abortions.

I didn't see anything in the article about her giving or receiving an abortion. Are you guys just making shit up for the hell of it?

I don't consider "abortion" a sin Artman, she did nothing in my eyes to make me think that she needs to be forgiven 40 years ago. "Living in sin" isn't a big deal to me... Now, Santorum on the other hand, is a douche of the highest caliber. His followers love the fact that he wants to criminalize giving abortions... To some them, they might feel that him being according her, "pro-life" 20 years ago, a bit of a scandal. Some might question how much of his views is just pandering to them. Will most of them look past this? Yes. If the same story came out about Michelle Obama, would they "look past it" do you think?

That last sentence is a rather shabby strawman. The rest is ... a long way of saying nothing. You agree there's nothing wrong here and that most people won't care, but you still feel the need to bring it up ... why? What is the relevancy?

wmansir
02-12-12, 02:47 AM
Why wouldn't we disregard the results?

This morning when they canceled the Washington Co (population:30,000+) caucuses because of weather ... there was no snow. Surely Maine can handle a threat of snow? Surely they deal with it enough they know when or not it's a risk?
http://www.necn.com/02/11/12/GOP-caucus-in-eastern-Maine-postponed-du/landing_politics.html?&apID=8fb6ed9037244211a519d1a53b5cf3b0

No snow til after midnight tonight.

That county now simply...does not matter. The GOP leaders there have said no matter the outcome of those votes, they won't change the "winner".

So a contest where Romney won by less than 200 is declared OVER.

What does a disenfranchised voter look like again?

The GOP just told a whole county: "oops sorry about that weather that never came - but your vote DOESN'T COUNT"

(does it matter to anyone that that county was supposedly a strong Ron Paul stronghold?)

Nobody is being disenfranchised because today's announcement was of a non-biding straw poll. The delegates selected from Washington county will still be counted at the state convention in May. The GOP chairman was saying that they were going to announce the results of the poll today, as scheduled, and were not going to wait for the stragglers to come in and issue an updated announcement in the future.

Also, we are talking about a country with less than 35K people, or less than 3% of Maine's population. Even if the entire county went to Paul I don't think he would have the 200 votes. Which is probably one reason why the GOP chair said they weren't going to wait on them to make the official announcement of the straw poll winner.

As for the weather, the storm didn't materialize because it swung east at the last minute. I'm a couple hundred miles west and as late as this morning we were forecast to get clipped by it here, with light snow all afternoon and evening, but in the end we got nothing.

eXcentris
02-12-12, 03:27 AM
Less than 5,600 people, or 0.4% of the population of the entire state voted. If the same ratio voted in Washington county, and every single one of them voted for RON PAUL, he still would have lost.

Note that I particularly care, but why would the entire population of the state matter in this little math exercise? I thought only registered Republicans got to vote.

Navinabob
02-12-12, 07:31 AM
I didn't see anything in the article about her giving or receiving an abortion. Are you guys just making shit up for the hell of it?

That last sentence is a rather shabby strawman. The rest is ... a long way of saying nothing. You agree there's nothing wrong here and that most people won't care, but you still feel the need to bring it up ... why? What is the relevancy?

That was my point... I personally don't care about her love affair with the doctor, just as if I wouldn't care if she performed abortions. I'm pointing out that the abortion angle has no relevance to me, even if it went to an extreme and she preformed abortions. I do not belong to the class of people who would care, but Evangelical Christians might.

I think the scandals part of the story is the part that she said Santorum was pro-choice 20 years ago, that his family apparently didn't have a problem with people being pro-choice, and that his politics have recently taken a sharp turn to the right.

I had guessed that most republicans would justify the situation as old and irrelevant just like they did with Newt's assorted love-life-cheating-issues; but if you go through the article's comment section, there is a lot more anger on the right that I didn't anticipate.

I'll refrain from explaining the details of how a "straw man" works and when you can appropriately claim one has been made a to not risk further topic derailment.

OldDude
02-12-12, 08:37 AM
That was my point... I personally don't care about her love affair with the doctor, just as if I wouldn't care if she performed abortions. I'm pointing out that the abortion angle has no relevance to me, even if it went to an extreme and she preformed abortions. I do not belong to the class of people who would care, but Evangelical Christians might.

I think the scandals part of the story is the part that she said Santorum was pro-choice 20 years ago, that his family apparently didn't have a problem with people being pro-choice, and that his politics have recently taken a sharp turn to the right.

I had guessed that most republicans would justify the situation as old and irrelevant just like they did with Newt's assorted love-life-cheating-issues; but if you go through the article's comment section, there is a lot more anger on the right that I didn't anticipate.

I'll refrain from explaining the details of how a "straw man" works and when you can appropriately claim one has been made a to not risk further topic derailment.

See, I'd like to know if he is really completely opposed to all abortions, which means I can't vote for him, or it is just bullshit he hypocritically tells his base.

Oh, snap, if he is a hypocrite, how can I believe anything he promises me. Shit, shit, shit. Now, what to do. (That's a rhetorical question, undeserving of a question mark)

Jason
02-12-12, 09:41 AM
Note that I particularly care, but why would the entire population of the state matter in this little math exercise? I thought only registered Republicans got to vote.

It's the only real world numbers I got. Can't say that only the romney "strongholds" were "allowed" to vote cause that would be conjecture.

Wasn't this a non-binding caucus anyhow?

crazyronin
02-12-12, 10:34 AM
Why wouldn't we disregard the results?

This morning when they canceled the Washington Co (population:30,000+) caucuses because of weather ... there was no snow. Surely Maine can handle a threat of snow? Surely they deal with it enough they know when or not it's a risk?
http://www.necn.com/02/11/12/GOP-caucus-in-eastern-Maine-postponed-du/landing_politics.html?&apID=8fb6ed9037244211a519d1a53b5cf3b0

No snow til after midnight tonight.
http://i39.tinypic.com/2webdyh.jpg

That county now simply...does not matter. The GOP leaders there have said no matter the outcome of those votes, they won't change the "winner".

So a contest where Romney won by less than 200 is declared OVER.

What does a disenfranchised voter look like again?

The GOP just told a whole county: "oops sorry about that weather that never came - but your vote DOESN'T COUNT"

(does it matter to anyone that that county was supposedly a strong Ron Paul stronghold?)
snowed in Waldo County (the next county down from Washington) all day. :shrug: If I want to know what the weather is doing right now, I go out in the dooryard not look at the forecast. Why? The weathahmahn's a lyin' asshole. :grunt:
it'll be a cold day in hell 'foah ah recognize the existence of "that" county!


Nobody is being disenfranchised because today's announcement was of a non-biding straw poll. The delegates selected from Washington county will still be counted at the state convention in May. The GOP chairman was saying that they were going to announce the results of the poll today, as scheduled, and were not going to wait for the stragglers to come in and issue an updated announcement in the future.

and, this.

wmansir
02-12-12, 10:35 AM
It's the only real world numbers I got. Can't say that only the romney "strongholds" were "allowed" to vote cause that would be conjecture.

Wasn't this a non-binding caucus anyhow?
If we look at 2008 results (http://mysite.verizon.net/mark.j.ellis/Caucus%20Tally%20Report.pdf). Of the 5431 state wide votes cast, 113 came from Washington County. McCain got 51, Romney 40, Paul and Huckabee 8 each.

That area of the state is kind of wacky and unpredictable, but unless voter turn out doubles and goes 100% Paul it wouldn't make a difference.

Sean O'Hara
02-12-12, 11:14 AM
That was my point... I personally don't care about her love affair with the doctor, just as if I wouldn't care if she performed abortions. I'm pointing out that the abortion angle has no relevance to me, even if it went to an extreme and she preformed abortions. I do not belong to the class of people who would care, but Evangelical Christians might.

You must care since you felt the need to bring it up, even though there is no actual controversy that's having any effect on the campaign.

I think the scandals part of the story is the part that she said Santorum was pro-choice 20 years ago,

An 80 year old man says he heard from Santorum's wife that he was pro-choice twenty years ago. Actually, to be totally accurate, The Daily Mail reports that an 80 year old man says he heard from Santorum's wife that he was pro-choice twenty years ago. That's a far cry from someone finding an article Santorum wrote twenty years ago where he actually says he's pro-choice.

that his family apparently didn't have a problem with people being pro-choice, and that his politics have recently taken a sharp turn to the right.

I had guessed that most republicans would justify the situation as old and irrelevant just like they did with Newt's assorted love-life-cheating-issues;

Most people won't care. Know why? People realize that they don't hold the same views today as twenty years ago. Changing views over a long period of time is not the same as flipflopping.

but if you go through the article's comment section, there is a lot more anger on the right that I didn't anticipate.

I'm looking and I'm mostly seeing people ragging on the Daily Mail for publishing the story with a misleading headline. The few people who do think it's a big deal sound like you, proclaiming how this will end Santorum's campaign rather than saying that they're offended.

I'll refrain from explaining the details of how a "straw man" works and when you can appropriately claim one has been made a to not risk further topic derailment.


Will most of them look past this? Yes. If the same story came out about Michelle Obama, would they "look past it" do you think?

You're trying to suggest that if the positions were reversed, conservatives would be trashing Obama for it, but that's just your imagination based upon something that hasn't happened. Straw man.

Th0r S1mpson
02-12-12, 11:54 AM
You guys are missing the real story. Santorum's wife was seeing an abortion doctor who delivered her. Santorum is married to a fetus! And she plays with their children!

Jason
02-12-12, 01:37 PM
You guys are missing the real story. Santorum's wife was seeing an abortion doctor who delivered her. Santorum is married to a fetus! And she plays with their children!

Like it's the first time they've done that!

Artman
02-12-12, 01:43 PM
I do not belong to the class of people who would care, but Evangelical Christians might.


Appreciate your concern, thanks for sharing. :)

Navinabob
02-12-12, 06:23 PM
You must care since you felt the need to bring it up, even though there is no actual controversy that's having any effect on the campaign.

An 80 year old man says he heard from Santorum's wife that he was pro-choice twenty years ago. Actually, to be totally accurate, The Daily Mail reports that an 80 year old man says he heard from Santorum's wife that he was pro-choice twenty years ago. That's a far cry from someone finding an article Santorum wrote twenty years ago where he actually says he's pro-choice.

Most people won't care. Know why? People realize that they don't hold the same views today as twenty years ago. Changing views over a long period of time is not the same as flipflopping.

I'm looking and I'm mostly seeing people ragging on the Daily Mail for publishing the story with a misleading headline. The few people who do think it's a big deal sound like you, proclaiming how this will end Santorum's campaign rather than saying that they're offended.

You're trying to suggest that if the positions were reversed, conservatives would be trashing Obama for it, but that's just your imagination based upon something that hasn't happened. Straw man.

Wait, when did I proclaim that this will end Santorum's campaign? I wrote: "Some of the new details really won't help his bid any. But, as scandals go, pretty mild." (I put in bold the words clearly showing what you either missed, or distorted to make your attack easier). See, what you did was actually a Straw Man attack as it's key components are: 1)Take someone's position, 2) Restate that position so that it becomes distorted, 3) Attack that position instead of the one they originally made.

What I said could have eventually turned into a Straw Man, but you jumped on it a bit early. What you could argue I said was maybe a false analogy/comparison; but I posed it as a questions as opposed to a statement... Now I was clearly making an implication over a hypothetical situation, but lets pretend I made it as a statement instead; you still need to show where my statements falls along the scale of near identity to extreme dissimilarity. Which, it itself, is impossible to do since I posed it as a question to a hypothetical situation without any claims beside it.

Jason
02-12-12, 06:36 PM
I think all of this talk about santorum's beard, er, wife is irrelevant. I'd much prefer they slam him on his questionable residency status while sending his kids to cyber school on the Pennsylvania taxpayer's dime.

Here's an older article (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_274635.html) that sums up most of the points.

OldDude
02-12-12, 07:21 PM
I think all of this talk about santorum's beard, er, wife is irrelevant. I'd much prefer they slam him on his questionable residency status while sending his kids to cyber school on the Pennsylvania taxpayer's dime.

Here's an older article (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_274635.html) that sums up most of the points.

Everybody has got to be a resident somewhere. Does he spend more time in Virginia than in his home district?. Does he pass any other test for being a Virginia resident instead of a Penn. resident? The article doesn't clearly establish that. In fact it seems to indicate he spends more time in Penn than in Virginia.

Jason
02-12-12, 08:34 PM
Everybody has got to be a resident somewhere. Does he spend more time in Virginia than in his home district?. Does he pass any other test for being a Virginia resident instead of a Penn. resident? The article doesn't clearly establish that. In fact it seems to indicate he spends more time in Penn than in Virginia.

Try this one (http://www.pjvoice.com/v12/12003home.html).

and this one. (http://ardmore.patch.com/articles/santorum-iowa)

and this one from a real newspaper. (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06146/693291-192.stm)

mosquitobite
02-12-12, 09:06 PM
What a big government conservative looks like (http://www.redstate.com/erick/2012/01/06/what-a-big-government-conservative-looks-like/)
Santorum is a conservative. He is. But his conservative is largely defined by his social positions and the ends to which government would be deployed. But he has chosen as the means to those conservative ends bigger government. We see big government conservatives most clearly when they deviate from the tireless efforts of people like Mike Pence and Jim DeMint and the others who were willing to oppose George W. Bush’s expansion of the welfare state. Rick Santorum was not among them.

Much more damning stuff at link.

Artman
02-12-12, 09:54 PM
Breitbart keeping it classy:
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4od4QQVK1o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4od4QQVK1o)

kvrdave
02-12-12, 10:38 PM
I think all of this talk about santorum's beard, er, wife is irrelevant. I'd much prefer they slam him on his questionable residency status while sending his kids to cyber school on the Pennsylvania taxpayer's dime.

Here's an older article (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_274635.html) that sums up most of the points.

Man, I can't imagine anyone caring about this. I think this would be as big as some story about a WA politician buying a microwave in OR and not reporting sales tax. It's silly to think he is somehow screwing Pennsylvania. And I don't like the guy. Well, except for the fun of watching people react to him. It's a good Palin alternative in that respect.

Navinabob
02-13-12, 05:14 AM
Breitbart keeping it classy:
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4od4QQVK1o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4od4QQVK1o)

To be fair, they were misbehaving and raping people.

Or sitting down and chanting... it was dark and those things get awfully mixed up with poor lighting.

Venusian
02-13-12, 08:39 AM
This dude is on the ballot in GA: http://www.buddyroemer.com/

Poor dude gets no love

VinVega
02-13-12, 09:52 AM
Closing for length. New thread (part 4): HERE (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/politics-world-events/598948-republican-field-primary-thread-part-4-a.html#post11113394)