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BearFan
09-27-11, 09:05 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/27/us/california-racial-bake-sale/

CNN) -- An open plaza at the University of California Berkeley will be an epicenter Tuesday in the debate over affirmative action and college admissions.

On one side, Berkeley College Republicans will host their "Increase Diversity Bake Sale" -- a satirical event that will charge customers different prices based on race and gender.

Yards away, Berkeley's student government -- the Associated Students of the University of California -- will host a phone bank in support of SB 185, legislation that would allow California universities to consider race, gender, ethnicity and national origin during the admissions process.

Neither side is backing down.

"We're full speed ahead," Berkeley College Republicans President Shawn Lewis said late Monday night. In light of recent threats made against supporters of the group, college Republicans from several other California universities have volunteered to come help staff the event, Lewis said.

During the sale, scheduled from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. local time, baked goods will be sold to white men for $2, Asian men for $1.50, Latino men for $1, black men for 75 cents and Native American men for 25 cents. All women will get 25 cents off those prices.

"We agree that the event is inherently racist, but that is the point," Lewis wrote in response to upheaval over the bake sale. "It is no more racist than giving an individual an advantage in college admissions based solely on their race (or) gender."

ASUC President Vishalli Loomba said many students who attended a community meeting Monday night expressed disgust that the bake sale will still take place.

"As a woman of color, when I first saw the event, I was appalled someone would post something like this on the Internet -- not only a different pay structure, but also to rank the races," she said. "It trivializes the struggles that people have been through and their histories."

Lewis said he agreed a ranking system for races isn't fair -- not for bake sales, and not in other aspects of life.

"The purpose of the pricing structure ... is to cause people to disagree with this kind of preferential treatment," Lewis said. "We want people to say no race is above another race, or no race is below another one. Why put one over the other? Why rank them that way?"

But Lewis said his group will not enforce the price list.

"If a white guy comes up and says, 'I want the price from an African-American female,' we absolutely give him that price," he said. Lewis said there can be complications with self-identifying a race -- especially if a person is multiracial.

Events similar to the Berkeley bake sale have taken place at other colleges across the country, generally organized by college Republican groups. In some cases -- such as at Berkeley -- the plan sparked controversy and protests.

Other times, university officials stepped in.

At Bucknell University in Pennsylvania, officials shut down a similar bake sale on campus. Officials at The College of William and Mary in Virginia cut off a cookie sale, saying they were "shocked and appalled."

The University of California, Irvine, shut down a bake sale on campus, saying it was discriminatory. And a bake sale at Southern Methodist University in Texas was shut down after 45 minutes because of what officials called an "unsafe environment," according to local reports.

Loomba, Berkeley's student government president, said she is concerned about students potentially feeling ostracized due to the bake sale.

"I have heard that from numerous students who have said this makes students feel unwelcome on campus," she said. "For that reason alone, we should think about what events we have on campus."

Lewis said the bake sale at Berkeley was unanimously agreed upon by the club, whose leadership includes Asian and Hispanic students and whose membership represents a "wide variety of ethnic backgrounds."

"More than half of the voices were female," he added.

But Berkeley's student government held an emergency senate meeting Sunday to discuss the issue and passed a resolution that, in part, "condemns the use of discrimination whether it is in satire or in seriousness by any student group."

"I completely support the idea of BCR -- or any students on campus -- (having) political discussion," Loomba said. "I think student members of BCR have a full right to express their feelings, but I don't necessarily think this tactic is constructive."

But the bake sale is intended to be a direct, "physical counterpoint" to the ASUC-sponsored phone bank, during which students will be encouraged to call Gov. Jerry Brown's office to support the legislation, Lewis said.

Loomba said the student government's phone bank "is in support of (SB) 185," and the ASUC has endorsed the bill.

As for where the bake sale proceeds will go, Lewis said the College Republicans are considering several charities.

But "because of all this controversy, we don't want to advertise the organization," he said. "We don't want to cause them problems."

CRM114
09-27-11, 09:08 AM
And?

Venusian
09-27-11, 09:15 AM
No comment from the OP?


also, doesn't this happen every couple of years?

Red Dog
09-27-11, 09:20 AM
Meh. Bucknell beat them to the punch by several years. Come up with an original idea, Berkeley.

BearFan
09-27-11, 09:23 AM
Must have pasted over the comment, this does happen fairly often. In this case it is a protest against SB 185, which would make race/gender a factor in admissions to the UC system. I find some of the complaints against the bake sale amusing considering the complainers are holding a phone bank to support a bill to support different standards based on race.

wishbone
09-27-11, 09:27 AM
http://i52.tinypic.com/wv4bdi.jpg

So Native American women eat for free?

Th0r S1mpson
09-27-11, 10:03 AM
http://i52.tinypic.com/wv4bdi.jpg

So Native American women eat for free?

Yes, all the Native American women at Berkeley are lining up. They will have to find a new business model ASAP. -eek-

Larry C.
09-27-11, 10:10 AM
Meh. Bucknell beat them to the punch by several years. Come up with an original idea, Berkeley.

-rolleyes-

Supermallet
09-27-11, 10:17 AM
Another article mentioned that the UC Ward Regent laughed when asked about this.

spainlinx0
09-27-11, 10:41 AM
What about a mixed race? Split the difference?

Vibiana
09-27-11, 11:04 AM
About 20-odd years ago I dated a Native American woman. I think I'll put her on a plane to Berkeley and have her clean the place out before anyone can actually buy anything. :lol:

SkullOrchard
09-27-11, 01:58 PM
At least this is a slightly better idea than hiking on the Iran/Iraq border.

kvrdave
09-27-11, 03:25 PM
We need Peddy to post so that we can all see the wisdom in his signature line. :lol:

Jason
09-27-11, 03:58 PM
also, doesn't this happen every couple of years?

College republicans seem to excel at embarrassing themselves. If it's not something like this, it's an animal rights bar-b-que. or a plantation themed costume party featuring white kids in blackface.

TGM
09-27-11, 04:00 PM
why is angel food cake white, but devils food cake is brown? HUH?

movielib
09-27-11, 04:07 PM
I'm just pissed because I have to pay the most. What, no discount for the children of Abraham?

Seriously, yes, it's been done many times. Stossel has shown a clip of himself holding one of these sales on his Fox Business channel show many times (he acknowledges he copied the idea).

NORML54601
09-27-11, 04:42 PM
Never heard of this form of protest before. I think it's creative. :shrug:

RoyalTea
09-27-11, 04:49 PM
why is angel food cake white, but devils food cake is brown? HUH?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oc1zGRUPztc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Bill Needle
09-27-11, 05:05 PM
Arranged for illustrative clarity:
ASUC President Vishalli Loomba said "...I was appalled someone would post something like this on the Internet -- not only a different pay structure, but also to rank the races," she said. "It trivializes the struggles that people have been through and their histories."

Yards away, (ASUC) will host a phone bank in support of SB 185, legislation that would allow California universities to consider race, gender, ethnicity and national origin during the admissions process.

Interesting take by Ms Loomba, as SB 185 will institute state sanctioned struggle based on race and gender.

movielib
09-27-11, 05:13 PM
College republicans seem to excel at embarrassing themselves. If it's not something like this, it's an animal rights bar-b-que. or a plantation themed costume party featuring white kids in blackface.
Edited:

Not saying that College Republicans never embarrass themselves but how does doing something analogous to "affirmative action" for illustrative purposes do that?

Superboy
09-27-11, 05:17 PM
Not saying that College Republicans never embarrass themselves but how does taking "affirmative action" to its logical conclusion do this?

Because it's the logical conclusion you want. I guess having a weapons sale on campus selling RPGs, nuclear warheads, and other large-scale destructive devices is the "logical conclusion" of the 2nd Amendment.

Th0r S1mpson
09-27-11, 05:27 PM
We're being discriminated against!
Let's have a bake sale!

-rolleyes-

Superboy
09-27-11, 05:34 PM
We're being discriminated against!
Let's have a bake sale!

-rolleyes-

And here I thought all those Vietnamese donut shops were in it for the money.

movielib
09-27-11, 05:36 PM
Because it's the logical conclusion you want. I guess having a weapons sale on campus selling RPGs, nuclear warheads, and other large-scale destructive devices is the "logical conclusion" of the 2nd Amendment.
Right, I can see how that's exactly the same thing.

But perhaps "logical conclusion" wasn't the best choice of words because it's too broad (and probably too vague; I was even thinking that when I wrote it). It seems to me that the bake sale is a very close analogy to affirmative action. They have the same rules. Members of some races get preferential treatment. Yet supposedly one is great and the other is reprehensible.

I am editing my above post accordingly.

Superboy
09-27-11, 05:47 PM
Right, I can see how that's exactly the same thing.

But perhaps "logical conclusion" wasn't the best choice of words because it's too broad (and probably too vague; I was even thinking that when I wrote it). It seems to me that the bake sale is a very close analogy to affirmative action. They have the same rules. Members of some races get preferential treatment. Yet supposedly one is great and the other is reprehensible.

I am editing my above post accordingly.

I should inform you, because apparently the media is retarded, even though the ASUC has mentioned this before, but this supposed "affirmative action" bill isn't really affirmative action.

When the college comes up with two applicants that are equal in standing in every respect, which is not hard to do considering how many apply, race, ethnicity, and sex are the tie breakers.

The UC system is actually legally prohibited from discrimination on the basis of race, and even reverse-racism. See: Regents v. Bakke. In that case, he was better qualified than other students that were admitted on the basis of race as a main determining factor. Although you're probably aware of that case, I just wanted this post to be thorough.

wishbone
09-27-11, 05:50 PM
I guess having a weapons sale on campus selling RPGs, nuclear warheads, and other large-scale destructive devices is the "logical conclusion" of the 2nd Amendment.No BATFE authorization and FFL = no sale.

kvrdave
09-27-11, 05:53 PM
So it isn't affirmative action, but if everything is equal, we go off of race? That's no affirmative action? Wouldn't it be "neutral" to actually take applicants in the ratio of race as the population of the area?

Bill Needle
09-27-11, 05:58 PM
I should inform you, because apparently the media is retarded, even though the ASUC has mentioned this before, but this supposed "affirmative action" bill isn't really affirmative action.

When the college comes up with two applicants that are equal in standing in every respect, which is not hard to do considering how many apply, race, ethnicity, and sex are the tie breakers.

Please explain how that is not affirmative action.

Groucho
09-27-11, 05:59 PM
Finally, somebody is standing up for the oppressed white male!

Superboy
09-27-11, 06:04 PM
Please explain how that is not affirmative action.

Because Affirmative Action would give it to a student that wasn't as qualified as another on the basis of race.

Superboy
09-27-11, 06:05 PM
So it isn't affirmative action, but if everything is equal, we go off of race? That's no affirmative action? Wouldn't it be "neutral" to actually take applicants in the ratio of race as the population of the area?

Then whites would still lose ;)

Th0r S1mpson
09-27-11, 06:05 PM
Finally, somebody is standing up for the oppressed white male!

I'm not sure anyone would define it as oppression (there are still lots of spots available for white males). But you would be hard pressed to offer a case where affirmative action is not viewed as racial favoritism. That's the entire point of affirmative action. Get people in who would not otherwise qualfy in the interest of diversification. I'm not altogether opposed to it, actually.

maxfisher
09-27-11, 06:17 PM
College republicans seem to excel at embarrassing themselves. If it's not something like this, it's an animal rights bar-b-que. or a plantation themed costume party featuring white kids in blackface.

College activists in general excel at embarrassing themselves. When I went through school in the late 90's, there were pro-/anti- awareness events on campus for about any political topic you could think of. The only commonalities were that they were consistently obnoxious and everyone involved came off like obstinate, ignorant, holier-than-thou jackasses.

Groucho
09-27-11, 06:20 PM
College activists in general excel at embarrassing themselves. When I went through school in the late 90's, there were pro-/anti- awareness events on campus for about any political topic you could think of. The only commonalities were that they were consistently obnoxious and everyone involved came off like obstinate, ignorant, holier-than-thou jackasses.I think it was even worse in the early 1990's. I went and saw PCU during that time, and was convinced it was a documentary.

Bill Needle
09-27-11, 06:26 PM
Because Affirmative Action would give it to a student that wasn't as qualified as another on the basis of race.
I'll grant you that's a far worse form of affirmative action. But since affirmative action is simply an advantage given based on race, gender, etc, making some applicants more equal than others clearly gives them an advantage and easily fits the definition.

Bill Needle
09-27-11, 06:37 PM
I think it was even worse in the early 1990's. I went and saw PCU during that time, and was convinced it was a documentary.
I attended UW-Madison during the Reagan administration. The usual crowd was pretty much beside themselves the entire time I was there. But it was quite comical for the most part, and at least they didn't kill anybody like they did in the '70s.

Superboy
09-27-11, 06:46 PM
I'm not sure anyone would define it as oppression (there are still lots of spots available for white males). But you would be hard pressed to offer a case where affirmative action is not viewed as racial favoritism. That's the entire point of affirmative action. Get people in who would not otherwise qualfy in the interest of diversification. I'm not altogether opposed to it, actually.

Traitor.

Superboy
09-27-11, 06:53 PM
I'll grant you that's a far worse form of affirmative action. But since affirmative action is simply an advantage given based on race, gender, etc, making some applicants more equal than others clearly gives them an advantage and easily fits the definition.

Please, stop changing the definition of Affirmative Action to suit your argument.

Bill Needle
09-27-11, 07:06 PM
Please, stop changing the definition of Affirmative Action to suit your argument.

Affirmative Action: An active effort to improve the employment or educational opportunities of members of minority groups and women; also : a similar effort to promote the rights or progress of other disadvantaged persons

Affirmative Action: Any action favouring those who tend to suffer from discrimination; positive discrimination.

CloverClover
09-27-11, 07:14 PM
College activists in general excel at embarrassing themselves. When I went through school in the late 90's, there were pro-/anti- awareness events on campus for about any political topic you could think of. The only commonalities were that they were consistently obnoxious and everyone involved came off like obstinate, ignorant, holier-than-thou jackasses.

At least they care, there is nothing wrong with young/passionate people...I think people on the CPU sitting in their comfortable position doing nothing and judging them is way worse. I never understand why the US hates protestors so much. we aint in some great utopia, far from it.

Th0r S1mpson
09-27-11, 07:15 PM
Is there value in "diversity?" That is a big part of the question.

If there is, should a private college not be allowed to make policies to enhance that value?

The difficulty comes when we try to apply rules across the board. If a college can discriminate based on race to increase diversity, can they also discriminate to erase it?

It would seem that many are inclined to promote this view when it comes to increasing diversity, and oppose it when it comes to decreasing it. I think there is good reason for that. Where do we draw the line in defining discrimination? Is it only okay to consider applicants on a student by student basis, by race proportionate to the general or applicant population, by a desired interracial mix, or something else? Who decides?

Personally, I think diversity adds value and I am okay with a private University using race as one criteria for entry. I support it for primarily black colleges and diverse colleges, but admit I have a hard time applying the same rules to an all-white college. This is probably on account of our nation's history towards certain groups. If those things had never happened, I would probably feel differently. But they did. And it's not the fault of the applicants, but it does help shape the problem and the inherent value that is currently found in diversity.

Ultimately I would like to see such a thing deemed entirely unnecessary. I'm not convinced that time is now. If it were, diversity would no longer be a value, but a natural occurrence.

Now, when it comes to the government imposing such things, that's another subject. I'm not sure the government should be defining those values for us and would prefer it to be color blind.

Shazam
09-27-11, 07:29 PM
Are they selling nanaimo bars? Those are the best.

Howie2000
09-27-11, 07:36 PM
If your a white person of an upper middle class background who went to a good high school where your entire academic track was built around one day getting a good SAT score and you get close to the same SAT score as someone from a shitty inner city public school(of any race), no offense to those opressed middle class white folk but I would argue based on degree of difficulty the person in the inner city school should get a checkmark tiebreaker of some sort in there favor.

Th0r S1mpson
09-27-11, 07:41 PM
But, and I'll contradict myself here to a degree, should that favor not be granted apart from race... meaning a white person going to a predominately black inner city school should also be considered? What if all the "black" spots just get filled by a lower percentage of black kids who also grew up in middle class neighborhoods and the inner city school kids never have a chance any way? And should we grant college opportunities to crappy schools just because they suck? The key in the end is to improve those inner-city schools to a degree. But honestly, I think inner city parenting has more to do with the results than the schools. Those problems span generations.

wmansir
09-27-11, 07:41 PM
... should a private college not be allowed to make policies to enhance that value?

The bill at the center of this is for public universities. Although, if the government can tell private individuals they can't discriminate in business, employment, renting, etc then surely they can tell private schools not to discriminate in the admissions process.

kvrdave
09-27-11, 09:25 PM
If your a white person of an upper middle class background who went to a good high school where your entire academic track was built around one day getting a good SAT score and you get close to the same SAT score as someone from a shitty inner city public school(of any race), no offense to those opressed middle class white folk but I would argue based on degree of difficulty the person in the inner city school should get a checkmark tiebreaker of some sort in there favor.

Agreed. We should also take into account people's feelings and their overall spirit. The last thing we need at an institute of higher learning is an objective system. That shit is based on science...probably.

Superboy
09-27-11, 09:48 PM
Agreed. We should also take into account people's feelings and their overall spirit. The last thing we need at an institute of higher learning is an objective system. That shit is based on science...probably.

Even if the system was based on a population lottery, whites would still lose. So would asians.

fujishig
09-27-11, 09:49 PM
If your a white person of an upper middle class background who went to a good high school where your entire academic track was built around one day getting a good SAT score and you get close to the same SAT score as someone from a shitty inner city public school(of any race), no offense to those opressed middle class white folk but I would argue based on degree of difficulty the person in the inner city school should get a checkmark tiebreaker of some sort in there favor.

Instead of race, we can just make financial aid the deciding factor. The more financial aid you need, the better off you are in admissions.

DVD Polizei
09-28-11, 12:13 AM
Arranged for illustrative clarity:


Interesting take by Ms Loomba, as SB 185 will institute state sanctioned struggle based on race and gender.

Ms. Oompa Loomba is a typical dumbass.

kvrdave
09-28-11, 12:30 AM
Even if the system was based on a population lottery, whites would still lose. So would asians.

I don't care if whites "lose," only that we wake up to the reality that fighting racism with racism is absurd.

Th0r S1mpson
09-28-11, 12:52 AM
I don't care if whites "lose," only that we wake up to the reality that fighting racism with racism is absurd.

What about fighting racism with racism AND muffins?

Howie2000
09-28-11, 01:58 AM
Agreed. We should also take into account people's feelings and their overall spirit. The last thing we need at an institute of higher learning is an objective system. That shit is based on science...probably.

If admissions was 100% about grades(Something that would be hard to judge objectively since every kid applying to a college all go to different HS and even within a high school 1 teachers A might be easier to get then anothers) and SAT scores there would be no need to ever have admissions interviews.

Maybe it's old fashioned but looking at someones charecter being a partial factor doesn't seem wrong to me.

Josh-da-man
09-28-11, 05:14 AM
Doesn't someone hold one of these affirmative action bake sales every couple of years?

Yawn.

Too bad these young republicans don't show some initiative and do something original, like an affirmative action blowjob booth.

$50 to blow white men.
$35 to blow Asian men.
$25 to blow Latino men.
Black men get blown free, with a rimjob thrown in afterward.

I think that would draw more interest than a fucking bake sale.

TheBigDave
09-28-11, 06:42 AM
Zombie has a long commentary with a bunch of photos from the event:

http://pajamasmedia.com/zombie/2011/09/27/racist-cupcakes-berkeley-erupts-over-affirmative-action-satire/?singlepage=true

Here's some video footage:

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xh-GZ2h4maM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

CRM114
09-28-11, 08:45 AM
I'll grant you that's a far worse form of affirmative action. But since affirmative action is simply an advantage given based on race, gender, etc, making some applicants more equal than others clearly gives them an advantage and easily fits the definition.

Um, whites have been given an "advantage" based on race in this country since its inception. Should we just let that "work its way out" over time or try and make it a bit more fair?

kvrdave
09-28-11, 10:52 AM
Um, whites have been given an "advantage" based on race in this country since its inception. Should we just let that "work its way out" over time or try and make it a bit more fair?

What metric will you use to decide when we are done?

kvrdave
09-28-11, 10:55 AM
If admissions was 100% about grades(Something that would be hard to judge objectively since every kid applying to a college all go to different HS and even within a high school 1 teachers A might be easier to get then anothers) and SAT scores there would be no need to ever have admissions interviews.

Maybe it's old fashioned but looking at someones charecter being a partial factor doesn't seem wrong to me.

I don't have a problem with that. If trying to determine the difference between grades at different high schools is hard, what will you use to determine people's character?

I think it is perfectly fine to downgrade a kid with arrest records, discipline records in schools, etc. I think it is perfectly fine to upgrade those with community service. But I don't understand what you intend with determining character.

DaveyJoe
09-28-11, 11:26 AM
Satire is a protected form of free speech. It gets tricky when you involve cash transactions.

Th0r S1mpson
09-28-11, 11:27 AM
Satire is a protected form of free speech. It gets tricky when you involve cash transactions.

Colbert is screwed.

Red Dog
09-28-11, 11:31 AM
Um, whites have been given an "advantage" based on race in this country since its inception. Should we just let that "work its way out" over time or try and make it a bit more fair?

Does the poor white 18 year old in WV have an advantage over the rich black 18 year old in NYC? WV is one of those podunk areas you usually mock, right, so I have to think you believe there is some disadvantage growing up there.

If schools are going to have admission preferences based on one's background, it should be economically based, not racially based.

If a college accepts an upper-middle class black kid that they wouldn't otherwise accept because he's black, what does that achieve?

Mabuse
09-28-11, 11:41 AM
Um, whites have been given an "advantage" based on race in this country since its inception. Should we just let that "work its way out" over time or try and make it a bit more fair?

Asians have been given a "disadvantage" based on race in this country since its inception, yet today they do not need special dispensation in order to achieve. Just look at the admissions at Cal and UCLA if you need any evidence.

They are, however, very chatty in the library.

Ky-Fi
09-28-11, 02:39 PM
I think the legacy of discrimination faced by blacks in the US has been fairly historically unique, and I'm sympathetic to that as a reason for affirmative action. However, as others have said, when and where is the cutoff, and might not an affirmative action program based on economic status be more fair?

I don't deny that race-based discrimination is still a problem for blacks, but I guess I would prefer that the funds and efforts to fight that be directed more at combatting instances where blacks specifically have been denied opportunity solely on the basis of their skin color, rather than advocating things like race-based preferences and quotas.

BearFan
09-28-11, 03:46 PM
It has some flaws, but the system with the Texas state schools is if you finish in the top 10% of your class by GPA, you are guaranteed admission in a state school, of which there are several good ones.

That does account for schools in poorer areas and somewhat levels out the grading system as you are only competing with students within your school where grading standards will be at least semi-uniform when compared to looking at the whole state.

DaveyJoe
09-28-11, 09:09 PM
Colbert is screwed.

Especially if muffins are on the line.

Rockmjd23
09-29-11, 12:06 AM
Does the poor white 18 year old in WV have an advantage over the rich black 18 year old in NYC?
Sorry but being black is a disadvantage no matter what the situation is. I can't think of any example where being black helped any individual in any way. Certainly nobody notable.

GMan2819
09-29-11, 01:18 AM
^^^Being Black doesn't hurt when it comes to professional sports.

BearFan
09-29-11, 06:42 AM
^^^Being Black doesn't hurt when it comes to professional sports.

No kidding, where is the Asian quota in the NBA not that Ming retired ....

Red Dog
09-29-11, 08:12 AM
Sorry but being black is a disadvantage no matter what the situation is. I can't think of any example where being black helped any individual in any way. Certainly nobody notable.

Bullshit. If you're born into a wealthy black family, you're advantaged over most people, white or whatever. You're telling me that Michael Jordan's kids were at a disadvantage? Barack Obama's kids are at a disadvantage? Being black doesn't help nor hurt in such a situation. It's the economic background that matters.

Mabuse
09-29-11, 12:14 PM
Sorry but being black is a disadvantage no matter what the situation is. I can't think of any example where being black helped any individual in any way. Certainly nobody notable.

Great quote. I love it when the well meaning person makes the most racist comment of all.

Rockmjd23
09-29-11, 05:49 PM
Bullshit. If you're born into a wealthy black family, you're advantaged over most people, white or whatever. You're telling me that Michael Jordan's kids were at a disadvantage? Barack Obama's kids are at a disadvantage? Being black doesn't help nor hurt in such a situation. It's the economic background that matters.
Really Red Dog? You're slipping :lol:
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/politics-world-events/592969-2012-republican-presidential-candidates-ptii-post10942499.html#post10942499

kvrdave
09-30-11, 12:57 AM
Sorry but being black is a disadvantage no matter what the situation is. I can't think of any example where being black helped any individual in any way. Certainly nobody notable.

You think that if Obama was a white freshman senator who hadn't completed his first term he would have garnered the media buzz that he did, and ultimately become president?

Being black is a disadvantage no matter what the situation is. :lol:

Rockmjd23
09-30-11, 01:03 AM
:facepalm into brick wall:

kvrdave
09-30-11, 01:10 AM
You believe he would have?

Rockmjd23
09-30-11, 01:31 AM
Yes i do. I believe it with every fiber of my being. It was all his charisma and promises of hope and change. In fact, most like-minded American probably didn't even notice he was black.

kvrdave
09-30-11, 01:58 AM
If they didn't notice he was black, how was his race a disadvatage in this situation? You seem to be arguing both sides.

Josh-da-man
09-30-11, 02:03 AM
You think that if Obama was a white freshman senator who hadn't completed his first term he would have garnered the media buzz that he did, and ultimately become president?

When the democrats get someone with a little bit of charisma they pretty much have to run with it. Usually, they're stuck with guys like Mondale, Dukakis, and John Kerry.

Rockmjd23
09-30-11, 02:21 AM
If they didn't notice he was black, how was his race a disadvatage in this situation? You seem to be arguing both sides.
I'm not arguing anything. I was being sarcastic about Obama and you people aren't picking up on it :mad:

printerati
09-30-11, 05:52 AM
I'm not arguing anything. I was being sarcastic about Obama and you people aren't picking up on it :mad:

I picked up on it, but I'm white. Draw your own conclusions!

chowderhead
09-30-11, 10:55 AM
Vast majority of Californians polled are not in favor of SB 185 which allows for racial consideration in college admissions: 77%-18%.
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=c44c72b9-b6a2-4711-9883-106e253fb51d

Vast majority say race/gender/national origin should not be considered when colleges admit applicants. Vast majority say SB 185 violates Prop 209.

Troy Stiffler
10-01-11, 04:38 PM
^^^Being Black doesn't hurt when it comes to professional sports.

Question: Why aren't there any short, fat pro basketball players?

Answer: Discrimination!

Jason
10-01-11, 06:01 PM
You think that if Obama was a white freshman senator who hadn't completed his first term he would have garnered the media buzz that he did, and ultimately become president?

Quite possibly. He could have been seen as a Jack Kennedy type. Tall, good looking, clean-cut, intelligent and very articulate. Basically everything we didn't have for the preceding 8 years. Throw in a hot wife and two cute kids too young to embarass themselves in bars, and you'd have a winner.

And no matter what his lineage may have been, we wouldn't have heard word one about his goddamn birth certificate.

kvrdave
10-01-11, 08:06 PM
Quite possibly. He could have been seen as a Jack Kennedy type. Tall, good looking, clean-cut, intelligent and very articulate. Basically everything we didn't have for the preceding 8 years. Throw in a hot wife and two cute kids too young to embarass themselves in bars, and you'd have a winner.

And no matter what his lineage may have been, we wouldn't have heard word one about his goddamn birth certificate.
Hot wife? His kids were certainly cute.

Maybe so. Either way, the result is proof (to me) that experience may mean something. And I think executive experience is important as well. Having never had to bring sides together, Obama seems oblivious as to how that might happen. He has spent the bulk of his presidency acting like a Senator, blaming the other side, giving wild partisan speeches, etc.

grundle
02-25-16, 01:48 PM
What was once a parody of affirmative action has now become real life:


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/02/25/cinder-block-comedy-festival/

NYC Comedy Fest Charges Straight White Men More In Push For Gender Equality

February 25, 2016

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — Organizers of an upcoming comedy festival in New York City are telling straight men to move over with a submission policy that takes a stance on gender equality issues.

The upcoming Cinder Block Comedy Festival is currently only accepting submissions from women, non-white applicants and members of the LGBTQ community — a move they say is an effort to curate a diverse lineup of performers.

“Having a token LGBTQ person of color woman, in a sea of white bearded men is not diversity,” the group proclaims in a video on the comedy festival’s website. “As an audience you deserve more than one point of view.”

The early-bird submission, running from Feb. 15 to March 15, also allows applicants to pay a cheaper fee of $19.25.

All other submissions, including ones from what festival organizers call “token bearded white dudes,” run from March 15 through April 15, with applicants paying a $25 submission fee.

The Cinder Block Comedy festival — run by an all-female staff — is the brainchild of Festival Director Coree Spencer, who drew inspiration for the idea after she was severely injured from being hit by a flying cinder block on the Puslaki Bridge, according to an open letter on the festival’s website.

Spencer said the difference in price was to mimic the gender pay gap between men and women, the Daily Caller reported. The difference in price is 77 percent.

The Cinder Block Comedy Festival is slated to to run at a venue in Williamsburg from Sept. 15-18.

Mabuse
02-25-16, 02:23 PM
As always stereotyping is a dishonest and ugly thing. I can't think of one white stand up with a beard. I guess Dave Atell sometimes has kind of a beard. Whatever ladies. Genocide in Darfur probably generates more laughs than this "festival".

JasonF
02-25-16, 02:42 PM
There are plenty of white standups with beards -- Louis CK, Zach Galifinakis, Chris D'Elia, Brian Posehn, Jim Gaffigan, Jonah Ray, Kyle Kinnane, Rory Scovel, Barry Rothbart, Brett Gelman.

In any event, the festival is not prohibitting white men from applying -- it's just opening an early window for non-white men to apply. This is what affirmative action should be. Go out of your way to reach out to under-represented communities. Get them to apply. Consider them. Don't just keep looking in the same places, because then you'll keep getting the same people.

dork
02-25-16, 03:01 PM
This is what affirmative action should be. Go out of your way to reach out to under-represented communities. Get them to apply. Consider them. Don't just keep looking in the same places, because then you'll keep getting the same people.
I'm not sure this is what affirmative action "should be". But I do applaud the organizers for presenting "more than one point of view". I'm sure all points of view will be represented at this festival. Much finger snapping will ensue.

Barth
02-25-16, 09:23 PM
Wow with the industry being run by white bearded men and all their racism and sexism, how did Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, Bill Cosby, George Lopez, Whoopi Goldberg, Kevin Hart, Chris Rock, Amy Schumer, Sarah Silverman ever get a chance to become a star?

Draven
02-25-16, 11:40 PM
Wow with the industry being run by white bearded men and all their racism and sexism, how did Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, Bill Cosby, George Lopez, Whoopi Goldberg, Kevin Hart, Chris Rock, Amy Schumer, Sarah Silverman ever get a chance to become a star?

Now list the famous male white stars. See which list is longer.

They can't keep EVERYONE out of the club. Just most of the people they don't like.

William Fuld
02-26-16, 01:04 AM
The Cinder Block Comedy festival — run by an all-female staff — is the brainchild of Festival Director Coree Spencer, who drew inspiration for the idea after she was severely injured from being hit by a flying cinder block on the Puslaki Bridge, according to an open letter on the festival’s website.

:lol:

DVD Polizei
02-26-16, 02:27 AM
Now list the famous male white stars. See which list is longer.


I'm sort of under the impression there are statistically more white-colored people in the US. Wouldn't you conclude that from the statistic...there would be more white actors?

Barth
02-26-16, 10:21 PM
I'm sort of under the impression there are statistically more white-colored people in the US. Wouldn't you conclude that from the statistic...there would be more white actors?

Couldn't have said it better myself. Affirmative Action (or better known as discrimination) at its best. Hey we have 100 people applying from this larger group of race and 50 applying from this smaller group of race. We're going to make it even by hiring 25 from both races. Everybody gets a fair shake this way, regardless of talent level. -rolleyes-

Draven
02-27-16, 01:56 AM
Couldn't have said it better myself. Affirmative Action (or better known as discrimination) at its best. Hey we have 100 people applying from this larger group of race and 50 applying from this smaller group of race. We're going to make it even by hiring 25 from both races. Everybody gets a fair shake this way, regardless of talent level. -rolleyes-

Actually, it's we have 100 white people and 50 black people so we'll hire the 100 white people because the black peoples' names sound too ethnic.

But keep banging the drum of the poor white man who just can't catch a break :lol:

AaronHernandez
02-27-16, 04:46 AM
Wow with the industry being run by white bearded men and all their racism and sexism, how did Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, Bill Cosby, George Lopez, Whoopi Goldberg, Kevin Hart, Chris Rock, Amy Schumer, Sarah Silverman ever get a chance to become a star?

They all made their way through the stand up world where you don't have Studio Exec Gatekeepers who will push through a dozen Josh Hartnetts and Chris Klein fails before they take a "gamble" on a POC or a woman. For example would Amy Schumer have gotten her tv show or a chance to make the megahit trainwreck if she didn't build up her rep beforehand?

A-aron
02-27-16, 05:29 AM
They all made their way through the stand up world where you don't have Studio Exec Gatekeepers who will push through a dozen Josh Hartnetts and Chris Klein fails before they take a "gamble" on a POC or a woman. For example would Amy Schumer have gotten her tv show or a chance to make the megahit trainwreck if she didn't build up her rep beforehand?

Exactly. I keep hearing comments about how there aren't enough black head coaches in the NFL. So, because the person is black they should immediately get a NFL gig? How many black head coaches are in college? junior college? high school? rec leagues?

My point is - you don't get to start at the very top of the job chain. You have to start at the bottom and work your way up. Some fields (like comedy) are harder than others.

So, if you are a black comedian, go to an open mic night. Craft your routine. If you are funny, you are funny.

Nick Danger
02-27-16, 06:32 AM
The entertainment industry has long welcomed people who were second class citizens elsewhere. Sammy Davis Jr. would talk about playing clubs where he wasn't allowed in the front door. Charles Laughton, Rock Hudson, and Lilly Tomlin had long careers where nobody looked too closely at who they were dating.

I'm not sure what battle these women are fighting.

AaronHernandez
02-27-16, 06:44 AM
Exactly. I keep hearing comments about how there aren't enough black head coaches in the NFL. So, because the person is black they should immediately get a NFL gig? How many black head coaches are in college? junior college? high school? rec leagues?

My point is - you don't get to start at the very top of the job chain. You have to start at the bottom and work your way up. Some fields (like comedy) are harder than others.



I guess if there were star Offensive or Defensive Coordinators of Colour who were getting passed over to recycle certain white coaches over which was the case in the past that would be a problem. That said if there are doors being closed for blacks in coordinators roles at the college level then that over time does effects NFL gigs.

AaronHernandez
02-27-16, 06:50 AM
I'm not sure what battle these women are fighting.

Probably because a lot of phleb level comedy clubs would have a quota where if you had a bill with 4 of 5 comics you could only have 1 woman because having 2 woman on the bill would suddenly make people think it's a special "Women's Comic Event" aka lesser comic night. It was probably less of a big deal 30 years ago when the quoto system didn't hurt female comics chances of making it cause their was probably around that rate or lower of females wanting to break through now though their are less clubs but more people wanting to break through so now you have a situation in the last 10-15 where it feels like it's just as Patriarchal as the Hollywood studio system.

Barth
02-27-16, 04:26 PM
Actually, it's we have 100 white people and 50 black people so we'll hire the 100 white people because the black peoples' names sound too ethnic.

But keep banging the drum of the poor white man who just can't catch a break :lol:

Really? That's your real response? Wow. Now black people don't get hired because their name sounds too ethnic? Amazing. I wonder what excuse is coming next.

BTW, I'm happy, educated myself, worked my way through college, and living this crazy thing called life and enjoying myself most days.
Here's the thing...I had to work for it and figure out what my talent and contribution to society could be. I didn't just get to have a job in something because someone needed to make a quota.

majorjoe23
02-27-16, 04:54 PM
Really? That's your real response? Wow. Now black people don't get hired because their name sounds too ethnic? Amazing. I wonder what excuse is coming next.

BTW, I'm happy, educated myself, worked my way through college, and living this crazy thing called life and enjoying myself most days.
Here's the thing...I had to work for it and figure out what my talent and contribution to society could be. I didn't just get to have a job in something because someone needed to make a quota.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/15/jalen-ross/black-name-resume-50-percent-less-likely-get-respo/

Barth
02-27-16, 10:31 PM
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/15/jalen-ross/black-name-resume-50-percent-less-likely-get-respo/

First, I think just responding with a link with no comments is against forum rules. But so be it.

Second, you posted a link with no real facts or numbers to back it up. But I'll play with that too...according to the study that was done 13 years ago, it said blacks got 50 percent less call backs because of their names. (Although its admitted later in the article it's more like 33 percent).

According to Draven and all his wisdom he said blacks got 100 percent less call backs. Which is it? Somebody has to be right and somebody has to be wrong because it can't be both.

Mabuse
02-27-16, 10:44 PM
because it can't be bothIt could be you're both wrong :lol:

Draven
02-27-16, 11:48 PM
First, I think just responding with a link with no comments is against forum rules. But so be it.

Second, you posted a link with no real facts or numbers to back it up. But I'll play with that too...according to the study that was done 13 years ago, it said blacks got 50 percent less call backs because of their names. (Although its admitted later in the article it's more like 33 percent).

According to Draven and all his wisdom he said blacks got 100 percent less call backs. Which is it? Somebody has to be right and somebody has to be wrong because it can't be both.

I was making a point with the numbers you made up. I didn't realize I had to be mathematically pure when you were just making up an example. But yes, that's the study I was referring to.

Since you cited the age of the study, how many years ago did you start down your path of career success? Maybe around that same time? Good thing you didn't have a black-sounding name or it would have been harder for you to get that first job.

Yes, hard work pays off. But in general, it's easier for white people to get credit for their hard work.

JasonF
02-28-16, 01:46 AM
Here's a more recent (December 2014) study that has findings consistent with the idea that there is discrimination against non-white male sounding names.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2063742

creekdipper
02-28-16, 04:00 AM
Excuse me for interrupting, but I was hoping to get a recipe for a sugar-free KupKaKe and wandered into a discussion of comedy clubs. Highly disappointing.

Just a suggestion...shouldn't this discussion be folded into the "We Are Cowards...Race Issues" thread?

It's a good discussion either way. Just seems to have outgrown this particular bake sale thread. :shrug:

Carry on.

majorjoe23
02-28-16, 11:30 AM
Sorry for just posting a link without a comment (though I think that rule is for starting a thread). I was at a party. Not a good one, since I was checking out a political thread.

But I'm sure race relations may have improved greatly in the last decade and a half.

DVD Polizei
02-28-16, 12:31 PM
Well, we could raise the Confederate flag and bring back slavery if you're disappointed. :banana:

grundle
02-28-16, 05:59 PM
Here's a more recent (December 2014) study that has findings consistent with the idea that there is discrimination against non-white male sounding names.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2063742


All of the racists and sexists in that study were college professors:


Abstract:

Little is known about how discrimination manifests before individuals formally apply to organizations or how it varies within and between organizations. We address this knowledge gap through an audit study in academia of over 6,500 professors at top U.S. universities drawn from 89 disciplines and 259 institutions. In our experiment, professors were contacted by fictional prospective students seeking to discuss research opportunities prior to applying to a doctoral program. Names of students were randomly assigned to signal gender and race (Caucasian, Black, Hispanic, Indian, Chinese), but messages were otherwise identical. We hypothesized that discrimination would appear at the informal “pathway” preceding entry to academia and would vary by discipline and university as a function of faculty representation and pay. We found that when considering requests from prospective students seeking mentoring in the future, faculty were significantly more responsive to Caucasian males than to all other categories of students, collectively, particularly in higher-paying disciplines and private institutions. Counterintuitively, the representation of women and minorities and discrimination were uncorrelated, a finding that suggests greater representation cannot be assumed to reduce discrimination. This research highlights the importance of studying decisions made before formal entry points into organizations and reveals that discrimination is not evenly distributed within and between organizations.

creekdipper
02-28-16, 07:11 PM
Well, we could raise the Confederate flag and bring back slavery if you're disappointed. :banana:

Recipe?

Barth
02-28-16, 08:42 PM
Yes, hard work pays off. But in general, it's easier for white people to get credit for their hard work.

Again, with the general post that has no foundation or anything to back it up. Just your belief. How do you know this statement you made to be true? You've done years of research on how white people get credit and how black people get credit?

How about this since you believe life should be lived by quotas. My first job as a computer programmer we had a massive layoff right after Y2K. There were 106 of us before the layoff and then 25 got laid off. I survived because I'm white right? I did survive but of the 25 that got laid off, all 25 were white.
I think around 20 of the 106 were black. Not a single one got laid off. So point being, if we live life strictly by numbers and percentages based on skin color and not talent, shouldn't some of those that were laid off been black? Or as you would say, since it's easier for whites to get credit, shouldn't all of the blacks been laid off before the whites?

dave-o
02-28-16, 10:16 PM
Again, with the general post that has no foundation or anything to back it up. Just your belief. How do you know this statement you made to be true? You've done years of research on how white people get credit and how black people get credit?

How about this since you believe life should be lived by quotas. My first job as a computer programmer we had a massive layoff right after Y2K. There were 106 of us before the layoff and then 25 got laid off. I survived because I'm white right? I did survive but of the 25 that got laid off, all 25 were white.
I think around 20 of the 106 were black. Not a single one got laid off. So point being, if we live life strictly by numbers and percentages based on skin color and not talent, shouldn't some of those that were laid off been black? Or as you would say, since it's easier for whites to get credit, shouldn't all of the blacks been laid off before the whites?

Are you really arguing against the notion that on average, life in the U.S. is harder for a person of color? This is a controversial idea? Seriously?

Psi
02-28-16, 11:32 PM
Are you really arguing against the notion that on average, life in the U.S. is harder for a person of color? This is a controversial idea? Seriously?

Silly you. You have to show that each white person has personally engaged in discriminatory practices or benefited from them, and each Black person has suffered from them. Otherwise what we are doing is reverse discrimination.

And you know, even if there was racial discrimination centuries ago, many of the Black people actually benefited from them (they were happier to be slaves in America than to stay in their African homeland), so their descendants have nothing to complain about now.

Just so we are clear.

Draven
02-28-16, 11:52 PM
Are you really arguing against the notion that on average, life in the U.S. is harder for a person of color? This is a controversial idea? Seriously?

I listened to a podcast today all about the Negro Motorist Green Book, which was a travel guide for African-Americans so they could cross the country or visit a new city and it would tell them which businesses would be willing to serve them. This was in the 30s through the 60s.

I was born in the 70s, so just about 10 years before I was born black people still needed a special book to tell them where they could get a meal or a hotel room. The idea that things are 100% fixed now is shockingly naive.

creekdipper
02-29-16, 12:58 AM
Are you really arguing against the notion that on average, life in the U.S. is harder for a person of color? This is a controversial idea? Seriously?

Silly you. You have to show that each white person has personally engaged in discriminatory practices or benefited from them, and each Black person has suffered from them. Otherwise what we are doing is reverse discrimination.

And you know, even if there was racial discrimination centuries ago, many of the Black people actually benefited from them (they were happier to be slaves in America than to stay in their African homeland), so their descendants have nothing to complain about now.

Just so we are clear.


I was born in the 70s, so just about 10 years before I was born black people still needed a special book to tell them where they could get a meal or a hotel room. The idea that things are 100% fixed now is shockingly naive.

Did Barth say any of those things?

Succinct answer: No.

dave-o
02-29-16, 06:03 AM
Did Barth say any of those things?

Succinct answer: No.

Yes, hard work pays off. But in general, it's easier for white people to get credit for their hard work.

Again, with the general post that has no foundation or anything to back it up. Just your belief. How do you know this statement you made to be true? You've done years of research on how white people get credit and how black people get credit?

How about this since you believe life should be lived by quotas. My first job as a computer programmer we had a massive layoff right after Y2K. There were 106 of us before the layoff and then 25 got laid off. I survived because I'm white right? I did survive but of the 25 that got laid off, all 25 were white.
I think around 20 of the 106 were black. Not a single one got laid off. So point being, if we live life strictly by numbers and percentages based on skin color and not talent, shouldn't some of those that were laid off been black? Or as you would say, since it's easier for whites to get credit, shouldn't all of the blacks been laid off before the whites?

Sure looks like he was arguing against exactly what I said...

creekdipper
02-29-16, 06:35 PM
Sure looks like he was arguing against exactly what I said...

????

Barth was challenging Draven's assertion that it's harder for blacks <b>to get credit for their hard work</b> than for whites.

You were talking about life <b>in general</b> being harder for blacks than whites.

Two different topics unless you're extrapolating to say that every area of life is harder for blacks (and, by extension, that includes getting credit for hard work done...presumably in all fields, even those in which blacks are disproportionately represented).

(And even those who agree with your general statement may disagree vehemently about the causes. But that's a different debate from what I saw Draven & Barth talking about).

Mabuse
02-29-16, 06:43 PM
Could it be said that a black person in America complaining about their standard of living is a "first world problem"? While it may be argued that things may be bad for blacks here, where is it any better? Our standard of living is off the fucking charts compared to nearly every other country and certainly any other time in history.

JasonF
02-29-16, 07:30 PM
Could it be said that a black person in America complaining about their standard of living is a "first world problem"? While it may be argued that things may be bad for blacks here, where is it any better? Our standard of living in off the fucking charts compared to nearly every other country and certainly any other time in history.

As far as problems go, it's probably somewhere between "Genocidal warlords slaughtered my family" and "I have to listen to black people complain about discrimination."

Barth
02-29-16, 09:22 PM
The idea that things are 100% fixed now is shockingly naive.

Nowhere in any of my posts have I said anything like that. Plus, I don't believe it. There's inequality in all things in life.

What I find that is shockingly naïve is your responses...

Originally Posted by Draven
Actually, it's we have 100 white people and 50 black people so we'll hire the 100 white people because the black peoples' names sound too ethnic.

If you truly believe that all white people get hired for all the open positions and no black people get hired then all I can say is...sorry you live in that world.

And this blanket statement...

Originally Posted by Draven
Yes, hard work pays off. But in general, it's easier for white people to get credit for their hard work.

Where's the background facts on that one again?

You know, I get it. My white cousin came from a lot more money than me. Was I jealous? Sure. What could I do to overcome those feelings? Sit on my ass and complain about it or go out there and find a talent and work as hard as I could? I don't hang out in the "pity me party". It motivated me. If you want to change something for the better do something about it. The opportunity is there. Sitting around in front of a computer saying the world has wronged you gets you nowhere.

dave-o
02-29-16, 10:37 PM
If you want to change something for the better do something about it. The opportunity is there. Sitting around in front of a computer saying the world has wronged you gets you nowhere.

Completely agree! And I'd add that in general, a person of color who decides to get up from the computer and go seek out opportunity has more obstacles in their way than a white person.

Barth
02-29-16, 10:42 PM
Completely agree! And I'd add that in general, a person of color who decides to get up from the computer and go seek out opportunity has more obstacles in their way than a white person.

I love poker so, I see your sarcasm, and raise with this...

Completely agree! And I'd add that in general, a person that is white who decides to get up from the computer and go seek out the NBA has more obstacles in their way than a person of color.

dave-o
03-01-16, 07:16 AM
I love poker so, I see your sarcasm, and raise with this...

Completely agree!

Well, it looks like we're in agreement. Glad you finally acknowledge that in general, there exists a thing called white privelege!

Draven
03-01-16, 05:11 PM
I love poker so, I see your sarcasm, and raise with this...

Completely agree! And I'd add that in general, a person that is white who decides to get up from the computer and go seek out the NBA has more obstacles in their way than a person of color.

Do you think that the NBA wouldn't take the best basketball player, regardless of race? Or do you think people make it to the NBA because of the color of their skin?

creekdipper
03-01-16, 06:05 PM
Do you think that the NBA wouldn't take the best basketball player, regardless of race? Or do you think people make it to the NBA because of the color of their skin?

Yeah, but if the player were black, he wouldn't get any credit for it. -wink-

But if blacks never get as much credit for hard work in any field (as posted by some), that would mean that black privilege exists in the NBA. :hscratch:

Because it would be saying that blacks succeed in the NBA not because of hard work but due to owner bias (privilege) or an innate ability to excel at bb (racist).

Draven
03-01-16, 07:08 PM
Yeah, but if the player were black, he wouldn't get any credit for it. -wink-

But if blacks never get as much credit for hard work in any field (as posted by some), that would mean that black privilege exists in the NBA. :hscratch:

Because it would be saying that blacks succeed in the NBA not because of hard work but due to owner bias (privilege) or an innate ability to excel at bb (racist).

I believe I said IN GENERAL black people don't get as much credit as white people to specifically avoid the few exceptions that would be dug up but here we are.

Congrats, whites and blacks are 100% equal in all things. You did it.

Mabuse
03-01-16, 07:16 PM
Congrats, whites and blacks are 100% equal in all things. You did it.

Finally you come around.

Draven
03-01-16, 07:52 PM
Finally you come around.

Hey, I'm a straight white man - I never have to deal with inequality. Doesn't that mean it doesn't exist? At least, that's the takeaway from this thread.

Barth
03-01-16, 09:58 PM
You know I'm thinking we should change this thread title from Racist Bake Sale to How Many Times Can The Words "In General" Be Overused?
Person A..."I'm going to make a blanket statement and either use the words 'in general' at the start of the sentence, in the middle, or at the end, that way I'm not held accountable for just making blind comments."
Person B..."Where are your facts?"
Person A..."Well I said in general. So I don't need facts. I can just say it so then it's the truth."

Draven
03-01-16, 10:04 PM
You know I'm thinking we should change this thread title from Racist Bake Sale to How Many Times Can The Words "In General" Be Overused?
Person A..."I'm going to make a blanket statement and either use the words 'in general' at the start of the sentence, in the middle, or at the end, that way I'm not held accountable for just making blind comments."
Person B..."Where are your facts?"
Person A..."Well I said in general. So I don't need facts. I can just say it so then it's the truth."

Do I really have to prove the existence of racism? Or do you live in this country too?

Here's a start: http://thinkprogress.org/education/2014/06/25/3452887/education-race-gap/


African-American students need to complete two more levels of education to have the same probability of getting a job as their white peers, a new study by Young Invincibles finds.
The researchers looked at data mainly from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the U.S. Census, isolating the effects of race and education on unemployment. They found that an African-American male with an associates degree has around the same chance of getting a job as a white male with just a high school diploma. “At every level of education, race impacts a person’s chance of getting a job,” Tom Allison, a research manager and one of the study’s authors, told ThinkProgress.

Explain to me again how a black person has the same chances as a white person? A black person has to go to school for 2+ more years just to equal a white person when it comes to employment. You don't see that as a disadvantage?

Barth
03-01-16, 10:06 PM
Hey, I'm a straight white man - I never have to deal with inequality. Doesn't that mean it doesn't exist? At least, that's the takeaway from this thread.

Hey, I'm a straight white man also, cool! Now that we connect I would have to say that "in general" Eddie Murphy has probably lived a better life than me. How did that happen?

Supermallet
03-01-16, 10:17 PM
When I was a kid, I loved to find the exceptions to rules in math and grammar. It infuriated my teachers to no end, because they knew that the existence of the exception didn't invalidate the rule. Now I understand their frustration.

Barth
03-01-16, 10:35 PM
Do I really have to prove the existence of racism? Or do you live in this country too?

Here's a start: http://thinkprogress.org/education/2014/06/25/3452887/education-race-gap/



That's the site you are going to use for an unbiased opinion? Ok. You know what you win. You beat me down.

On a final note, no, you don't have to prove the existence of racism. I know it exists across the entire planet. However, what I will say, it exists across all races. There are blacks that hate whites for being white, whites that hate blacks for being black, blacks that hate asians, asians that hate blacks, etc. Don't live your life just thinking you're the only race that is a victim of it and no one else is. Carry on.

Draven
03-01-16, 10:44 PM
So, you didn't like the proof and disregarded it. Glad I wasted the time!

dave-o
03-01-16, 10:46 PM
:lol:

Are you surprised?

Draven
03-01-16, 10:55 PM
:lol:

Are you surprised?

No, though I am surprised that data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the U.S. Census can be so easily dismissed. Oh wait, it doesn't fit the worldview so it has to be wrong. It's the new way to win an argument - jam your fingers in your ears, say la-la-la, take your ball home and call it a win.

creekdipper
03-02-16, 06:29 AM
So, you didn't like the proof and disregarded it. Glad I wasted the time!

You didn't quote these findings from your own link to the "Young Invincibles" "proof" that you posted:

o The effect of a high school diploma on employment probability for African American men is 50 percent larger than the same degree for a white male, but a professional degree offers a black male a 146 percent larger effect than the same degree for a white male. Similar, though less pronounced trends exist among women.

o An African American male with a bachelor’s degree is only 5 percentage points less likely to have a job than a white male bachelor’s degree holder. An African American female with a bachelor’s is only 3 percentage points less likely to be employed than a similarly educated white woman.

o Among professional degree holders, the racial gap between races is virtually erased.


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