Mombo76

Hi everyone, this is my first post here. I'm looking for some help in determining if I received counterfeit DVDs off of eBay. I'm almost positive that they are but would like some others input.

I purchased the complete set of That 70's Show and it looks very legit, just like the real deal with the "stash box" and everything. The only thing that tipped me off was the discs are wrapped in cheap plastic sleeves that I've seen on other bootlegs.

So I put one of the discs in my computer to see if it was region 1 like the box said and it had no region. They're also only 4.7 GB, shouldn't they be DVD9 which are usually up to 8 GB?

Another thing was it had the show name, season number and episode number on the inner ring of the DVD. I checked all the legit DVDs I own and couldn't find one that had the same type of markings all of them just have barcodes and random numbers.

I contact the seller and told them it was a bootleg and mentioned it was only 4.3 GB. They're denying it of course. Here is their response, "The DVD's is not bootleg, Ordinary D5 DVD is 4.7GB, D9 DVD version is 8.5G, brings you unhappy I'm sorry."

Regulus

Check the flip side of the disk. Are they silvery in color or purplish? Silvery means pressed, and is most likely legit. Purplish means burned, and unless its one of those "Burn-on-Demand" Disks like the ones Warner brothers put out, it's probably a bootleg.

manicsounds

"Brings you unhappy?" Surely that sounds like what a chinese bootlegger would say.

Mombo76

Aren't most legit TV Show on DVD9 discs? Or are there a good amount on the smaller DVD5 format. I'm under the assumption that the majority of genuine DVDs are Dvd9. Does anyone know about this?

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi

It depends.

A better thread title, including the set you're trying to verify, would have caught the attention of someone that owned the set and could tell you how theirs is.

Is my wife a bootlegger as well? English isn't her native language.

TheBang

Yes. Pretty much 99.99% of legit commercial DVD's are DVD9, not DVD5. Especially TV sets, where they try to fit as much content as possible on as few discs as possible.

The only exceptions would really, really old material that was authored before dual-layer DVD production became the norm (c. 1997), and hasn't been reauthored for dual-layer. Stuff like, I believe the Monty Python boxset is all single layer DVD's still.

mythmaker18

Did you check the color of the "recording side" of the disc as previously suggested? This is the quickest way to determine if it's a burnt disc or a pressed one.

rw2516

Sometimes, with 30 min. shows, if the last disc of the set only has maybe two episodes and a few features it'll be a DVD-5. Not very often.

coyoteblue

The only way to be sure is to not buy from ebay. Buy from a trusted source. Oh, and price can sometimes be indicative of legitimacy. If the price seems to good to be true, hoist a red flag (barring goldbox deals from Amazon, etc..).

Brian T

Bootleg DVD-9's and DVD-5's (including fancy box-sets) are far more common than people here probably realize, so there's still the possibility that this guy got a bootleg set of discs, despite their professional appearance. And yes, sadly, most (but not quite all) of these boots originate in China or in Chinese communities.

There was once a flood of this stuff in Toronto (and presumably other large Canadian and American cities). DVD5 and DVD9 boots of American movies were often displayed right out in the open in every single Chinese mall in the city and it's surrounding boroughs -- most usually ripped from legit DVD source files (the films, supplements, soundtracks, sub streams, menus, etc) almost as soon, or sooner, than the North American DVDs were on the streets. Police crackdowns were futile until they increased their regularity (and updated legislation or some such), and now anyone interested in boots of U.S. DVDs is pretty much left with purple-colored DVD-Rs fetched from a backroom or somewhere outside the store, which makes it look all the more suspicious, driving down customer traffic as a result, and sending the sellers to (big surprise!) eBay and similar sites. Not that there aren't other things to pirate in order to create "business opportunities" for newcomers to bide their time, and naturally it's only grown to encompass our expanding Southeast Asian communities . . .

I'd love to see photos of Mombo76's boxed set of That 70's Show. Obviously, there's a chance it could be legit, just a bit shoddy. But there's also the chance that the seller (or his backers) simply compressed the contents of a legitimate box set of DVD9's down to DVD5's to boost profit margins. That they can duplicate the look of nearly any DVD packaging should also come as no surprise.

For kicks, I just searched eBay for this boxed set. What an utter coincidence that the only three sellers (all of whom use the same product image) peddling this product are all based in Mainland China! One even has the gall to claim that his product isn't some cheap "Hong Kong knockoff", as if that's where the world's bootlegs have primarily been originating from for the past decade! Too funny. One can only imagine where the money goes from these purchases . . .

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi

Then you'll be surprised that you're incorrect. I have a lot of DVD5 media in my collection, which is currently around 13k titles.

kidglov3s

Here are some points of differentiation I found between the legitimate and bootleg Twilight Zone The Complete Definitive Collection DVDs that I acquired this Summer:


Region:
Legitimate: Region One.
Bootleg: All Region.

Layers for disc 1-5 of each set:
Legitimate: Dual.
Bootleg: Single.

PDF Extras when listed (S1 Disc 6, S2 Disc 5, S3 Disc 5, S4 Disc 6):
Legitimate: Exist.
Bootleg: Nonexistant.

Disc Names as displayed on a PC:
Legitimate: "TWILIGHT_ZONE_SEASON_3_DISC_3", etc.
Bootleg: "NEW"

Overall Bitrate (from S3 episode "Deaths-Head Revisited"):
Legitimate: 5123 Kbps (Video: 798Mb, no visible macro blocking)
Bootleg: 2881 Kbps (Video: 395Mb, quite visible macro blocking)

Print on ring on bottom of discs:
Legitimate: Random code.
Bootleg: Twilight Zone Season 3 Disc 3, etc

Folders on discs:
Legitimate: VIDEO_TS, AUDIO_TS, JACKET_P
Bootleg: VIDEO_TS, AUDIO_TS


Among these the ones I'd be most keen to look for would be disc region (the region should be region one for almost all discs released in USA/Canada, but bootlegs are almost always region free), file dates (legitimate file dates are almost always before the release date, bootleg file dates almost always afterward), text under the disc (the legitimate discs used some kind of code with random letters and numbers while the bootleg discs had plain text), and the name of the disc when you put it in a PC (legitimate DVDs will never be named "NEW").

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi

You'd be surprised. Last week I got Festival of Fright http://www.amazon.com/Festival-Frigh...2930340&sr=8-2 and it was named something like TEST_DISC.

It was that or another some other disc from some small distributor but I'm pretty sure it was that one. I think even Troma has had some things like that on certain discs but it's usually the smaller guys doing it. I've also remember running across a few titles that had a date.

manicsounds

My mistake. No offense. Anyway, I'd stay away from ebay Asian all region releases. Always skeptical. If you can find it on a legitimate asian site (yesasia, play-asia, etc), then you can easily compare.

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi

No offense taken. It's just that a lot of people automatically assume asian = bootleg, which isn't always the case.

BobO'Link

I don't have the box set, but individual seasons. I grabbed a season at random off the shelf - S6, and pulled a disk out.

It, along with the others in that season, has *full* silk screen images on the label side. This is where the disk is labeled as to season/disk, on the surface in an oval.

The inner ring markings are the standard "random" characters in holofoil type design *on the play side*.

The disk label in a computer is: THAT70SSHOW_S6_D1 and it is R1. The others are the same only differing in S#/D#.

Only 1 folder on the disk: VIDEO_TS

with file dates of: 2/21/2007 @ 12:37pm on *all* files

This one contains 6.55GB of data, disk 2 of that season has 7.45GB, indicating D9 disks

Hope that helps...

orangerunner

Actually many legit discs are DVD5 single layer discs. Most of them are bare-bones editions or 16:9/4:3 double-sided (DVD10).

Many times the feature film on a special edition takes up less than 4.7g and the extras take up the remaining space.

I think most TV series would use DVD-9s because they are always trying to cram as much on each discs as possible. The final disc in a TV series may be a DVD5 if there is only a one or two episodes.

orangerunner

The best way to spot fake DVDs is the purple recording side of the disc indicating it is a DVD-R.

The label is usually ink-jet printed or at best, color-thermal printed which can look pretty close to off-set print.

Pressed DVDs have silver bottoms with no sign of a burned ring. The disc art is silk-screen (shiny, textured artwork) or off-set printed (matte, low-gloss printing)

Some low production, independent films can also be legitimately issued on DVD-R, which doesn't mean they are necessarily fake. Usually in order to get a title pressed you have to order a minimum of 500 copies at one time.

Brian T

In certain ways you're correct, but I detect a lack of familiarity with the true spectrum of pirated discs.

While it's true that a purple colour does indicate the possibility of a pirated disc (Warner Archive-type titles excepted, of course), a great majority of the bootlegs from China (for the most part), which are generally the ones under discussion here, are almost -- almost -- indistinguishable from the real thing. They ARE pressed on DVD-5's and, more frequently, DVD-9's, with top-grade off-set or silk-screen printed disc labels. It's not like these discs are that much more expensive for the pirates to use considering they've likely already "invested" in pro-grade authoring and pressing machines that fit comfortably in a basement, garage or self-storage unit, and if anything, the profit margins are higher because they can peddle the authentic-looking finished product in a DVD case with a professionally-printed sleeve insert and, quite often, an outer slipcover for that added dash of authenticity. They can even replicate elaborate boxed sets with stunning ease, which may be the case with the 70's SHOW boxed set that started the discussion. After all, the original boxes were probably crafted in China in the first place, so the templates are right at hand.

They've got bootleg Blu-rays in a couple of Chinese shops here too, of course. Virtual carbon copies of the originals, but there's something strangely . . . homogenous about them. All the plastic Blu cases are identical, regardless of studio or film. No security stickers. No shrinkwrap. Just a little protective acetate sleeve-baggy thing. I'll never buy one, but I've often wondered if what's inside is either a BD-R or perhaps a full-on Blu-ray disc that just happens to have been pressed on the overnight shift at the same factory in China that cranks out the legitimate ones on the day shift. Don't know. Don't care. You just don't see legit Blu-rays all sold at the exact same price regardless of title, studio, etc.

eBay's flooded with this crap, which is why the best advice is to stay away from any seller who openly lists their location as mainland China. It's just not worth the risk.

DVD-R's, on the other hand, are these days for bootleggers who really want to make a quick buck. Literally. Here, in certain Chinese quarters, you can get DVD-R rips for literally a dollar a piece (mostly of Asian films to my everlasting frustration as a fan, but also of Hollywood product, if you're willing to look cheap and pathetic asking for them). No case, no insert, no slipcover. Just the disc in a little paper CD envelope. Because Toronto's bootleggers don't openly display their American bootlegs the way they used to thanks to police interference, they fly under the radar much more effectively these days. But the crackdowns do still catch them, and there are increasingly few shopkeeps who even bother, especially with the decline of disc-based media in general. Franky, these "businesses" were largely set up (by criminals) to provide new (and possibly "unofficial") immigrants something to do while waiting for their citizenship. The government sez you gotta stay on the soil for something like three years (no long trips back home) before you get the card. And if you're from, say, mainland China, with few transferable job skills and little fluency in the language, then running a counterfeit shop in one of the city's many barely-policed Chinese mega-malls is just the bee's knees to bide your time.

The Bus

All the DVDs sold on the streets here in China have discs that are pressed professionally and look like the real thing. Of course the label is in Chinese and it's a movie in theaters AND it's being sold for $1, so it's obviously a bootleg.

But still, the color being silver doesn't mean it's a legit disc.

Brian T

I'd think in China, finding a legitimate DVD would be like sourcing the proverbial needle in a haystack! Here, there's a sort of code that exists for those who prefer to take the risk on these things (which, as you note, are often made using pro-quality DVDs, not DVD-R's). It's based on "percentages". For example, if you know the movie you're buying is still playing in theatres -- which you probably do know -- and is therefore likely to be compromised in some way on the disc (owing to the skills of the person who recorded it in the theatre, the quality of equipment they used, the presence of other patrons, etc), you have to ask the seller what "percentage" the quality is. The response will be something like "Ninety-five per cent!" (as if the sellers have actually watched every disc they sell in order to provide this info), meaning -- possibly -- that the movie is relatively stable, shot straight-on in an empty (or relatively empty) theatre, and is mostly devoid of little black silhouettes of other patrons bobbling across the bottom of the screen. I find it amusing that people even bother to ask; it's not like the seller is going to be honest and say "seventy-eight percent quality!" and risk losing the business of the undiscriminating souls who go in for this crap. At the same time, these bootleggers have all but proven that $1.00 to $2.00 (and dropping, surely) is the price most of their customers are comfortable spending on an ersatz (and more-or-less disposable) "rental" of a movie, so in that sense, they figured out what the studios, video rental chains ('member those?) and even many streaming-content sites have been unable and unwilling to admit: the actual value of their content to the end user.

The above doesn't even begin to address the riches that await pirates with access to the discs provided to theatres in China that project digitally . . .

gerrytwo

It is easy to spot bootlegs. First, take a Sharpie, then draw a . . .
At www.dvdinfo.pro, a programmer named Nic created a now ad supported program that gives you media information, including the software used to create the DVD master. If you see a software name like Spruce Technology, authentic. If Nero, probably not.

Of course, many bootlegs of American movies don't even have any DVD cover art, just a glossy white cover with the movie name printed. But the original poster knows that, he is just toying with the people here to get them to reply. He makes up a new name for himself, joins again DVDTalk and then says he is new here.

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi

How is he getting around the IP deal that changes your title, saying you have multiple accounts?

mbj0213

Best description I've found in one place. Maybe each thing independently will not guarantee it's bootleg...but put them them all together and it definitely spells bootleg.

I am fighting a seller on Amazon that I've bought 3 dvd sets from (I made the purchases 2 days apart before I realized they were dealing in bootlegs). In talking to Amazon customer support I don't think Amazon is very well equipped to deal with this type of abuse. I contacted the seller and requested all of my money back (including shipping). They said no problem, send the dvd back. I said no (so they can re-sell it to someone else?). At that point Amazon said to file A-Z claim. And give them a bad seller review. That's it. Not much in the way of helpful. This was before I realized I had 2 more sets to deal with (and possibly a 4th that I bought in June).

Somnia

Ok so I tried to post a link explaining how to spot bootlegged DVDs and I have to make 30 posts before I can post links. I guess this helps to cut down on spambots, but it's rather annoying. I guess your best bet is to read the advice that's been given here and do a search on Google. You'll find lots of sites explaining how to spot bootlegged DVDs.

I bought "The Last Unicorn" on DVD years ago and the flip side of the disc was purple. I didn't know it was a bootleg until I saw the color. It was in great quality which probably meant they people directly ripped the footage from the legit release.

Although I'm not very tech savy when it comes to the specs of DVDs, but if it says "All Region" it's 99.9% Bootleg. I know how to spot bootlegged anime DVDs. The brand FX is a very popular Bootleg maker in anime.