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View Full Version : Vegas Strip: Curbing the Disorder (LV Sun Article)


El Scorcho
07-26-11, 06:50 PM
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/jul/26/county-hopes-curb-disorder-strip/

If it seems a little uglier on the Strip these days, don’t blame plump tourists stuffed into Spandex and Hawaiian shirts, or the fleshy advertisements everywhere you look.

The YouTube video of a Los Angeles tourist punching a costumed superhero strolling the Strip a few months back caught everyone’s eye. That was ugly. But it’s more than that. Somehow and very quickly, not only are costumed characters multiplying, but people peddling bottles of water **— and in some cases, beer — are popping up everywhere, homeless people are hanging out on pedestrian bridges, card slappers are still soliciting customers for nearly naked women and folks are selling trinkets of all sorts, sometimes forcing pedestrians onto the roadway.

One Clark County commissioner says enough is enough, and suggests as a possible solution the creation of a tax district to help pay for more law enforcement along the Strip. The issue may be discussed when the commission meets Aug. 2.

Lt. John McGrath of Metro Police’s Convention Center Area Command said the department has enough officers on the Strip to make it safe; the three recent violent deaths — two from stabbings, one from a punch — were anomalies at a time of double-digit declines in violent crime. But, he says, officers are challenged by the proliferation of something more prosaic: unlicensed sales of water, CDs, T-shirts, even beer from coolers. Police have cited and in some cases arrested repeat offenders but have struggled to make a dent on the scene.

Officers, he said, call it “disorder.”

“I wouldn’t say it’s dangerous, but it’s more than a nuisance,” McGrath said.

Commissioner Steve Sisolak says the goings-on along the Strip are so off-putting to many tourists that casinos may be feeling the effects. From illegal vendors to handbillers to the generally unkempt feel he got during a recent stroll on the Strip, he said something has to be done.

“It’s dirty, the ground is actually dirty,” he said. “They need to spray off those sidewalks. You’ve got dozens of people selling water, scores of characters in costumes asking for a donation to take a picture with them and hundreds of card-flippers, then guys with megaphones handing out pamphlets,” he said.

“The sidewalks are getting blocked with this stuff,” Sisolak added. “I’m an advocate of free speech, but you can have reasonable time-place restrictions, too.”

Only adding to his uneasy feeling are the monolithic heaps left in the wake of the economic meltdown of the past few years — iron lattice exposed on the incomplete Echelon complex, the empty Fontainebleau tower, and fences around other unfinished projects.

“This is the most valuable part of our economy, all within a four-to-five-mile stretch, and we’ve got to do what we can to make it a pleasant experience,” Sisolak added. The Strip went through a period of adult-Disneyfication in the 1990s but now, the commissioner added, “I wouldn’t have a safe feeling if I took a child out there.”

Sisolak, vice chairman of the County Commission, has met with casino representatives whom, he says, seem to support his proposal to form a committee of resort owners, with support from various county agencies, to analyze Strip issues and develop a plan to address them. He also wants Metro Police involved as well as the Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

The County Commission is likely to talk about his idea at its next meeting Aug. 2. Among his suggestions: creating a taxing district to generate money to pay for additional enforcement officers.

Commissioner Tom Collins, who also serves as chairman of the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority, agrees with Sisolak that the Strip sidewalk scene may need attention, but says it reflects a cyclical problem that surfaces during rough economic times.

“When you’ve got an economy like we do, there’s a lot more people, not just on the Strip but everywhere, hustling a little bit, panhandling a little bit,” he said. “A guy’s out of work, he has a Halloween costume, and now he’s trying to sell pictures (of himself in costume with a tourist) on the Strip.”

That said, he also believes much of the problem stems from the handbillers or card-slappers, whose right to distribute material has been upheld in court.

“But where is the balance between free speech versus the efforts of this community to be successful?” Collins added. “We could make that place cleaner and nicer if we weren’t sued by the ACLU all the time.”

Allen Lichtenstein, ACLU of Nevada general counsel, said plenty of case law has been created supporting the free-speech rights of handbillers. “They are protected in the same way that religious organizations are protected, or students who want to demonstrate against budget cuts are protected. You can’t pick and choose who is and isn’t protected.”

Lichtenstein said Metro, in the past two months, has come forward to talk to the ACLU about the issues, realizing that another lawsuit is not the answer. What’s becoming clear, he added, is that the handbillers — who are clumped in one area, causing crowding problems — can work anywhere up and down the Strip.

“People seemed to think they had to all be in certain areas,” he said, adding that just spreading them out might alleviate at least one of the issues Sisolak wants to address.

As for the other issues, the illegal vendors being a big one, those may take more time.

“There’s not a simple solution,” McGrath admitted. “It took a few years to get to this point and it’s going to take time to get it back to where it was.”

It's good to see that local government is starting to realize that the LV Strip is a mess. Between the jobless people dressing up as Superman (and the tourists who enable them), the handbillers/cardflippers handing out porn cards, uninspired "rappers" trying to sell you their shitty CD for $10, and the homeless people begging for money every 50 feet (especially on walkways), the entire area has become a giant clusterfuck and a pain in the ass for a tourist to enjoy their trip.

Unfortunately, cardflippers are here to stay for the long term -- courts have routinely upheld the right to free speech regarding that, even though it creates a massive littering problem.

It'd be real nice to shut down these tools with a halloween costume and time to kill though. They (and the crowds that gather) clog the fuck out of already clogged sidewalks.

pedagogue
07-26-11, 08:04 PM
Unfortunately, cardflippers are here to stay for the long term -- courts have routinely upheld the right to free speech regarding that, even though it creates a massive littering problem.

Why don't cops enforce littering laws and fine them? They literally spew hundreds/thousands of pieces of litter a day. I can't stand the cardslappers, as many are pushy and are a complete nuisance.

filmerp
07-26-11, 11:29 PM
Why don't cops enforce littering laws and fine them? They literally spew hundreds/thousands of pieces of litter a day. I can't stand the cardslappers, as many are pushy and are a complete nuisance.

The cardslappers aren't littering directly; the tourists who take the cards will then drop them after a few steps, but the cops likely don't want to antagonize the tourists with fines.

pedagogue
07-26-11, 11:58 PM
The cardslappers aren't littering directly; the tourists who take the cards will then drop them after a few steps, but the cops likely don't want to antagonize the tourists with fines.

Many of the cardslappers push them at tourists, often having them fall on the ground. It is a technicality, but those people just cause problems by clogging up the sidewalks and hassling tourists.

El Scorcho
07-27-11, 02:18 AM
a cardslapper will never let go of a card unless you take it from them with your hand

so all the littering is on the person/tourist who grabbed it

and vegas police will never pursue littering charges against tourists because the last thing they wanna do is start pissing off their lifeblood as a city

i hope someday that they find a way to get rid of these assholes though

but they're starting to pale in comparison to shitty rappers trying to sell you their shitty rap cds

Red Dog
07-27-11, 08:17 AM
Meh. I've gotten my picture taken with the Stormtrooper before. I also love watching the rubes get taken in the 3-card monte games on the Strip. The card-slappers are harmless. Just walk right by them -- how hard is that?

My pet peeve re: the Strip is all the people who use those stupid scooters.

Deftones
07-27-11, 08:34 AM
i enjoy fucking with the hooker card slappers. pretend to take the card and then don't. they usually chase after you. good times.

GoVegan
07-27-11, 09:31 AM
The card-slappers don't really bother me. After a few minutes it starts working like sonar - you hear the noise and know where the obstacle will be.

kvrdave
07-27-11, 02:21 PM
If I were a casino on the strip, I'd put in a sidewalk on my private property and have a couple of security guys keeping the card flappers, etc. away. Several could go in together an essentially make the city sidewalk obsolete.

El Scorcho
07-27-11, 02:34 PM
Meh. I've gotten my picture taken with the Stormtrooper before. I also love watching the rubes get taken in the 3-card monte games on the Strip. The card-slappers are harmless. Just walk right by them -- how hard is that?

My pet peeve re: the Strip is all the people who use those stupid scooters.

Walking right by them is super difficult when crowds form around them. The sidewalks simply aren't large enough to handle the massive amount of Vegas foot traffic combined with street performers.

I expect natural slowness in tourist-heavy areas when there are attractions to look at. When I walk by the bellagio fountain when it's playing, I expect to slow down heavily. Same with TI & The Mirage and such.

But when I'm in between Planet Hollywood and Paris just trying to make my way over to O'sheas so I can shove a $5 sub into my face, I just want to fucking get there without it taking 20 minutes.

Red Dog
07-27-11, 02:45 PM
Super difficult? Do you weigh 500 lbs or something? :lol:

And I love the criticism of the folks selling water. It's fucking 1 person on a pedestrian bridge with a cooler. It's causing pedestrian jams. rotfl

The only sidewalk crowding problem I really ever encounter (besides the Bellagio fountains and such) is that Harrah's area where you're forced to do the U through the peddlers and go by the Carnival Court.

El Scorcho
07-28-11, 03:11 AM
Super difficult? Do you weigh 500 lbs or something? :lol:

Take any walkway that is 20 ft wide and constrict it to 5 feet of throughfare suddenly. See what happens. (note: this is exactly what the harrah's/IP loop does)


And I love the criticism of the folks selling water. It's fucking 1 person on a pedestrian bridge with a cooler. It's causing pedestrian jams. rotfl

But where does it end? What happens when you have 10 guys on each walkway selling water? What about businesses, casinos, etc. who pay their taxes fairly that are losing business to rogue sellers?



The only sidewalk crowding problem I really ever encounter (besides the Bellagio fountains and such) is that Harrah's area where you're forced to do the U through the peddlers and go by the Carnival Court.

newsflash: that "U" isn't the only area that's like that anymore. See the area between Planet Hollywood and MGM Grand for example.

Red Dog
07-28-11, 09:46 AM
I walked through that PH/MGM area last February....it wasn't a big deal. Nowhere near as bad as the Harrah's U.

Rogue sellers. :lol: Maybe if a casino didn't charge $3 for a bottle of water in the gift shop, they wouldn't have to worry so much about rogue sellers.

pedagogue
07-29-11, 10:11 AM
Rogue sellers. :lol: Maybe if a casino didn't charge $3 for a bottle of water in the gift shop, they wouldn't have to worry so much about rogue sellers.

The casinos still have a right to not have to put up with them. They pay their taxes, and the rogue sellers do not. They really are a public nuisance. The INS should just make hourly sweeps through the streets of vegas, that would probably get rid of 90% of the riff-raff.

Red Dog
07-29-11, 10:34 AM
I don't think the casinos own the sidewalks. At least it's obvious some don't - where you see the card-slappers. Therefore they have no rights in that regard.

If they own the connecting bridges, they certainly have the right to eject the bottled water rogues. I'm not sure who owns those bridges though.

Lets be real - a guy selling water isn't a nuisance. They certainly aren't to me. It's not like they are getting in your face. I for one appreciate being able to purchase a bottle of water for $1.

pedagogue
07-29-11, 10:51 AM
Lets be real - a guy selling water isn't a nuisance. They certainly aren't to me. It's not like they are getting in your face. I for one appreciate being able to purchase a bottle of water for $1.

They take up space on the sidewalk, which is already crowded with street acts, card slappers, and tourists...yes s/he is a nuisance. They are they worst on the bridges because there is less space to walk.

El Scorcho
08-01-11, 05:18 PM
Some sidewalks are owned by the casinos all the way out to the Blvd. Others own up to the sidewalk. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen the porn slappers on the West side of the strip (Bellagio, Caesars, etc.). I can only recall seeing them on the east side (O'Sheas, PH, Flamingo, etc.).

I've also read reports of people finding used bottles of water, filling them up with whatever water they can find, and re-selling them. This probably isn't common though.

Maybe if a casino didn't charge $3 for a bottle of water in the gift shop

People who pay for bottled water in Vegas are dumb. You can go to any bar in any casino and ask for a cup of ice water from the bartender and get it for free.

I dunno, I am just fed up with sidewalk congestion while I'm there. I think it's a combination of the porn slappers, the thugs selling shitty rap CDs, the timeshare peddlers, the bottled water salesmen, the homeless beggars, and also tourists just not being able to make up their fucking mind about what they want to do so they stand 3-abreast in the middle of the sidewalk and block pedestrian flow.

I"m a degenerate. That extra 10 minutes it takes me to get somewhere is 10 more minutes of gambling I'm missing out on. MOVE, fuckers!

El Scorcho
08-01-11, 05:44 PM
Followup article:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/jul/27/human-clutter-strip-troubling-resorts/

Concerns have escalated in corner offices up and down the Strip about smut peddlers and the X-rated litter their leaflets create along Las Vegas Boulevard as well as the proliferation of homeless people, costumed performers and unlicensed vendors.

One casino executive Tuesday called it a crisis that’s tarnishing the Strip’s image as a safe and fun place for tourists and is threatening the state’s economic engine.

“Our failure to enact comprehensive solutions in a reasonable manner is jeopardizing the image of Las Vegas,” said Jan Jones, senior vice president of communications and government relations at Caesars Entertainment. “It’s reached the point that there’s a dangerous perception of our city.”

Jones’ comments come amid suggestions by Clark County Commissioner Steve Sisolak to create a tax district to generate money for additional police officers on the Strip. Besides nuisance concerns, the Strip is the site of three much-publicized deaths recently — two from stabbings, one from a punch.

Resort representatives say they have long expressed concerns to county commissioners about various nuisances — handbillers of sexual entertainment in particular. Little progress has been made, however, with some critics saying the county has pursued expensive and fruitless court battles.

In 2007, a federal judge declared unconstitutional a county ordinance preventing commercial leafleting on the Strip — a law aimed at X-rated material. It’s one of multiple First Amendment victories for Strip handbillers even as resort operators field complaints from tourists about card-sized ads for erotic entertainers that often end up on sidewalks or in gutters.

County officials and Metro Police have acknowledged that recent case law protects the free-speech right of street performers to perform for tips without a business license, said Allen Lichtenstein, general counsel of ACLU of Nevada.

The ACLU has successfully argued on behalf of leafleteers, street performers and activists on the Strip and downtown over the years. There’s room for compromise, although county officials have historically been unwilling to pursue other options outside of court, Lichtenstein said.

That may be changing, however.

Sheriff Doug Gillespie recently initiated meetings with Metro Police, handbillers and the ACLU to address complaints about aggressive handbillers who tend to clump in certain areas of the Strip, obstructing pedestrian traffic “so people feel like they’re running a gauntlet,” Lichtenstein said. One proposed solution would require that handbillers are widely disbursed along the Strip and not gathering in a particular place, he said.

“I would like to see representatives of the hotels also involved in these discussions so everyone could work together to protect First Amendment rights while relieving ancillary problems that go on with such activities, like the litter on the sidewalks,” he said.

Sisolak has proposed forming a committee of resort owners, county and immigration officials and Metro Police to address growing nuisance and safety concerns.

Jones said her company hopes to continue long-standing discussions with the ACLU and the county to find a compromise solution like other tourist cities have done with ordinances that limit where and when performers and leafleteers can operate. Caesars is also open to discussion about paying for an enhanced police force to enforce such an ordinance.

Honolulu is among multiple cities that have lessened such nuisances while also protecting free-speech rights, Jones said.

After years spent discussing the problem, the Nevada Resort Association, which represents many of the major hotels along the Strip, is also hopeful.

“Any solution is going to take a coordinated effort with the property owners, the county, the district attorney, the sheriff, the ACLU and the handbillers and will take a commitment of resources for both maintenance and enforcement and possibly even some improvement projects to ... protect unobstructed pathways and aid in enforcement,” resort association President Virginia Valentine said.

Rather than spending money for more police officers, the hotels should first seek an accounting of room tax money earmarked annually for Strip improvements, an amount that totaled $34 million last year, said Las Vegas political and marketing consultant Billy Vassiliadis, CEO of R&R Partners. Budget cuts may have hurt efforts by maintenance crews to clean the Strip, for example, he said.

“These problems have gotten worse, and there’s more riding on the success of tourism now. The folks on the Strip are eager to participate in discussions with policymakers.”

pedagogue
08-01-11, 07:38 PM
Sisolak has proposed forming a committee of resort owners, county and immigration officials and Metro Police to address growing nuisance and safety concerns.

Unless this is to ensure that every single person peddling crap on the Strip is legally allowed to be here, pays taxes, and is not a wanted criminal....I'm completely against it.

Nick Danger
08-14-11, 03:22 PM
This makes no sense to me. In Santa Fe, street vendors need to have a license to sell in front of the Governor's Palace. In Faneuil Hall Boston, street performers need a license to perform. In both cities, the license-holder is restricted to a specific place, like about 10x10 feet. Both cities have a waiting list. Why is Las Vegas having legal troubles with placing controls on vendors and performers?

kvrdave
08-16-11, 04:41 AM
I was just there last week, and it was the first trip in 6 years. It wasn't any worse than it's always been, from what I saw. I did see the random costume people having pictures taken with them, which was new. But there actually seemed to be less card flapper porn on the ground as well.

Matthew Chmiel
08-19-11, 01:11 AM
If you think the strip is an eyesore with all the Hollywood Boulevard rejects, try hitting down Fremont Street. Holy shit, it's like walking into the 80s with all of the KISS and Bret Michaels impersonators.

Okay, that might actually be Bret Michaels downtown trying to panhandle...

Jason
09-13-11, 07:37 PM
The thing that surprised me the most about Vegas was the number of homeless people. Kinda depressing when you're there on vacation and you see a guy yelling into a trash can, followed by another one eating out of one while his sweatpants fall off.

Xndman
09-24-11, 07:30 AM
Speaking of card slappers, how are they paid? I figure it's gotta be by commission, but how would the "service" know which card slapper "referred" the "client?" Also, there are so freaking many card slappers, how much money does the whole "industry" make?

Jason
10-03-11, 08:45 PM
Speaking of card slappers, how are they paid? I figure it's gotta be by commission, but how would the "service" know which card slapper "referred" the "client?" Also, there are so freaking many card slappers, how much money does the whole "industry" make?

All the ones I saw looked like immigrants, mostly Mexican. Not going to speculate on their legal status, but I'm sure they're paid as little as the scammers can get away with. They're probably lucky to get minimum wage.

pedagogue
10-25-11, 08:07 PM
I'll be there next month....I'm really hoping they leave me the heck alone.

SmackDaddy
11-01-11, 09:02 AM
We were there a couple of weekends ago and the porn slappers and costumed people bothered us a lot less than the timeshare buzzards.

On the subject of all the costumed people out there, WASH YOUR COSTUME!! Spiderman near the MGM I'm looking at YOU!!!!

Seriously, some of the guys must NEVER wash their outfits. The spiderman in particular looked like he rolled in grease and dirt before showing up for duty every morning.

The Bus
12-29-11, 05:02 PM
Was there this week, seemed to be about normal. Cardslappers weren't out in full force until nighttime.

LickTheABCs
02-08-12, 03:22 AM
I was there the last few nights and the card-flippers were out in full force, they were practically doubled during the day then at night, though. The only major difference was at night they were more pushy trying to practically put it in your pocket.

There was easily more people than usual on the strip trying to sell us coke though.

juanmgonzalez
02-08-12, 09:10 AM
I was there the last few nights and the card-flippers were out in full force, they were practically doubled during the day then at night, though. The only major difference was at night they were more pushy trying to practically put it in your pocket.

There was easily more people than usual on the strip trying to sell us coke though.

Are you sure it was cards they were trying to put in your pocket?!!! You know, since it's at night...

Pizza
02-22-12, 03:30 PM
The card snappers are obnoxious. They get right in your way snapping those cards in your face. I don't view selling something the same as freedom of expression. The pitchmen are scary. I had one guy approach my wife and I and I gently waved my hand at him while shaking my head no. He had a major fit and took insult to my actions and started yelling at me that I thought I was better than him. He was making a pitch and I said no. Sorry but I'm in Vegas for my enjoyment and not to stop and hear his sales talk. It wasn't personal but he made it that and scared my wife.

pedagogue
03-04-12, 09:08 AM
The card snappers are obnoxious. They get right in your way snapping those cards in your face. I don't view selling something the same as freedom of expression. The pitchmen are scary. I had one guy approach my wife and I and I gently waved my hand at him while shaking my head no. He had a major fit and took insult to my actions and started yelling at me that I thought I was better than him. He was making a pitch and I said no. Sorry but I'm in Vegas for my enjoyment and not to stop and hear his sales talk. It wasn't personal but he made it that and scared my wife.

Were you on the northside of the strip around the Imperial Palace/Flamingo? That guy likes to camp out there, he's a real piece of work.