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View Full Version : The Cheesehead Saga ptIII - Gov't choking Unions, Judges choking Judges


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movielib
05-26-12, 10:17 AM
That's the most annoying argument of the Dems that we keep hearing...between forcing the recall itself (because they didn't get their way, and were too childish to wait 2 more years like everybody else does when they don't like a governor/president) and the senators fleeing, they have the guts to blame Walker for dividing the state? No, morans, your inability to "play by the rules" is what divided the state.
You would have been really annoyed because a Civil War blamed entirely on Walker was Barrett's clear theme for the night.

I didn't watch - was Act 10 (you know, the reason the Dems forced the recall in the first place) even discussed?
Only early when Walker said he made a mistake by not laying the groundwork well enough early to explain his reforms. But they were correct, they are working and most people understand that. Walker has said that before and this is consistent with one of last week's polls showing a good majority of the state likes Act 10 but a fair portion of them didn't like the way it was done. Left unsaid by Walker was that more explanation could have come during the legislative debates and Walker explaining things parallel but the 14 "Fleabag" senators ran away and the Assembly Democrats started their "Shame, Shame" routine. That kind of tossed reasonable and civil debate out the window.

Barrett then just went into his Civil War, Divide and Conquer routine.

movielib
05-30-12, 03:48 PM
Walker up 7% in new poll.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/purple-wisconsin/155786605.html#!page=1&pageSize=10&sort=newestfirst

Marquette Poll: Walker up 7
By Christian Schneider
May 30, 2012 2:51 p.m.

Over at the National Review Online, I run down the latest Marquette poll, which has Scott Walker leading Tom Barrett by a 52 percent to 45 percent margin:

According to pollster Charles Franklin, since April there have been 16 gubernatorial recall polls taken; yet none have shown Barrett in the lead. (Although one just released today by a liberal group showed the race tied.) The poll has Walker’s favorability rating at 51 percent favorable to 45 percent unfavorable, with Walker’s job-approval numbers virtually identical.

Recently, Barrett has taken a more aggressive posture, accusing Walker of hiding potential criminal wrongdoing; yet it appears this new negative approach may be costing Barrett votes — his favorability rating has sunk to 41 percent favorable, 46 percent unfavorable. Among independent voters, Barrett is mired at 25 percent favorable, 45 percent unfavorable. (Among Republicans, Walker has a 90 percent favorability rating; among Democrats, Barrett’s favorability is only 70 percent.)

In the same poll, Wisconsin voters favored President Barack Obama over Mitt Romney by a 51 percent to 43 percent margin; surely this is bad news for Barrett, who can’t argue that the poll is somehow biased towards Republicans.

The poll demonstrates widespread support for Walker’s policies. For instance:

55 percent approve of limiting collective bargaining for most public employees, as opposed to 41 percent who disapprove.

75 percent support requiring government employees to pay towards their own pensions and pay more for health insurance.

60 percent say they like what Walker has done as governor, although 21 percent disagree with the way he accomplished it.

61 percent support requiring photo identification to vote, while 37 percent oppose.

Throughout the controversy over collective bargaining, the public seems to have supported Walker's agenda, but not necessarily Walker personally. He just needed some time for the public to see his reforms could work and give him credit for them - that appears to be what is happening.
The internals really seem to be breaking for Walker. Higher favorability and a growing recognition of how well Act 10 has and other Walker measures have worked.

The Dems are disputing the Marquette poll saying it oversamples Republicans but I have no idea where they're getting such evidence. Furthermore, the Marquette poll is in line with all other polls, (including one done for the Daily Kos last week) except internal Democratic polls. So the Dems are pushing their latest internal poll showing it 49%-49%.

Meanwhile, Barrett shows how he has nothing:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/barrett-cant-name-any-schools-hurt-walkers-collective-bargaining-reforms_646296.html

Barrett Can't Name Any Schools Hurt by Walker's Collective Bargaining Reforms
1:40 PM, May 30, 2012 • By JOHN MCCORMACK

Wisconsin governor Scott Walker is facing a recall election on June 5 because of the law he signed last spring to limit the collective bargaining power of public employee unions--a reform his opponents said would be a "disaster" and destroy public education in the state. Walker's Democratic challenger, Milwaukee mayor Tom Barrett, acknowledged this morning that the collective bargaining issue was the "flame that started this" recall election, but Barrett couldn't point to a single public school that has been harmed by Walker's reforms.

Here's a transcript from a press conference at Barrett's campaign headquarters in Milwaukee Wednesday morning:

TWS: On collective bargaining, mayor, the governor and his campaign have pointed to a number of... schools across the state that heave benefited from the reforms in Act 10. Which school districts have been hurt in particular, in your view, by Walker's policies and his reforms? Are there any that stand out in your mind?

BARRETT: Well, I support the restoration of collective bargaining rights. And that's what this is all about--whether you support workers' rights. And I support workers' rights.

TWS: But are there any school districts in particular, though, that have been hurt by Act 10?

BARRETT: I have talked to prison guards, I can tell you that, who are concerned about their own public safety because of the changes in the law, and I'm very concerned about that as well

TWS: But no school districts—

BARRETT: We can do an analysis and get back to you on that.

An email to Barrett's campaign asking when that analysis might be completed (the election is in 6 days) has not yet been returned.

School districts big and small have used Walker's reforms to balance their budgets without layoffs or painful program cuts—see the stories, for example, from Kaukana, Brown Deer, Wauwatosa, Appleton, Baldwin-Woodville, Hartland-Lakeside, Pittsville, just to name a few. "Welcome news for local schools" read a recent headline of the Madison-based Wisconsin State Journal.

It's true that the school districts of Milwaukee, Racine, and Kenosha have laid off hundreds of teachers—but those districts have been operating under contracts in which local unions retained collective bargaining because the contracts were agreed to before Walker's reforms were signed into law. A study by the conservative MacIver Institute has shown that although these districts comprise 13 percent of public education staff statewide, they accounted for 43 percent of layoffs at Wisconsin public schools. In other words, Walker's collective bargaining reforms have actually saved teachers' jobs.

Not only has Barrett been unable to point to a single school district hurt by Walker's reforms, he has been unwilling to say how he would have balanced the budget differently than Walker did. Barrett was also unable yesterday to name a single policy he would pursue to create jobs in the state of Wisconsin.
Really? Barrett will get back to them on what Wisconsin school districts have been hurt by Act 10? In a year he couldn't come up with one? Of course he has no district and if he named one it would get shot to hell. And, as said in the article, Barrett has consistently ignored every question asking what he would have done to balance the state budget (required by the Wisconsin Constitution, BTW) or name a single policy he would pursue to help job creation.

movielib
05-30-12, 04:34 PM
The Dems' claim of Republican bias in the Marquette poll may be tenuous.

http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/view_online.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Flaw.marquette.edu%2Fpoll%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F05%2FMLSP6_Toplines.pdf (pages 18-19)

People answered how they identify as follows:

R - 28%
D - 33%
I - 36%

Asked where they lean, the results were:

R - 43%
D - 48%
I all the way - 8%

With an R disadvantage of 5%, Walker wins by 7%. How this oversamples Republicans is beyond me, in our closely divided state.

movielib
05-30-12, 05:08 PM
Feds confirm "Walker's job numbers":

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/apnewsbreak-gov-walker-says-federal-agency-has-confirmed-wisconsin-job-growth-numbers/2012/05/30/gJQAPrsZ2U_story.html

APNewsBreak: Gov. Walker says federal agency has confirmed Wisconsin job-growth numbers
By Associated Press
Updated: Wednesday, May 30, 4:46 PM

JANESVILLE, Wis. — Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker’s administration says job-growth numbers he made public earlier than normal have been verified by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Wisconsin Department of Workforce Development spokesman John Dipko told The Associated Press on Wednesday that the bureau has confirmed Wisconsin jobs grew by 23,608 in 2011.

Walker faces a recall election Tuesday, and his record on jobs has been a focus of the campaign.

He released the preliminary job numbers two weeks ago before bureau confirmed them, an unusual move.

His Democratic opponent, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, accused Walker of “cooking the books” and trying to spin the numbers to his advantage.

Walker says the bureau confirmation shows the preliminary numbers were accurate. He says Barrett owes people an apology.
I thought this wouldn't be released until late June but here they are. "Walker's numbers" were right, in fact, more than right. The Feds said 287 more jobs were created than Wisconsin and Walker said.

What the hell will Barrett say now?

aktick
05-30-12, 05:48 PM
Feds confirm "Walker's job numbers":

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/apnewsbreak-gov-walker-says-federal-agency-has-confirmed-wisconsin-job-growth-numbers/2012/05/30/gJQAPrsZ2U_story.html


I thought this wouldn't be released until late June but here they are. "Walker's numbers" were right, in fact, more than right. The Feds said 287 more jobs were created than Wisconsin and Walker said.

What the hell will Barrett say now?

They're already onto his legal defense fund deal now. OMG! He transferred $100k into it? Crook!

Also they continue to complain about how much of his money is coming from outside the state...of course since the Dems complain about outside money, they naturally give all of their outside money back, right? :rolleyes:

It becomes more comical by the day the things they're grasping at to try and vilify the guy.

wmansir
05-30-12, 07:22 PM
WSJ reported today that since last March the Wis. American Federation of Teachers union has seen membership drop by 1/3 and State worker's union membership has dropped by 2/3. The largest union in the state, the NEA, has not released any membership numbers.

The story mentioned that the state no longer automatically collects dues for the unions, but wasn't that overturned in court?

movielib
05-30-12, 07:45 PM
WSJ reported today that since last March the Wis. American Federation of Teachers union has seen membership drop by 1/3 and State worker's union membership has dropped by 2/3. The largest union in the state, the NEA, has not released any membership numbers.

The story mentioned that the state no longer automatically collects dues for the unions, but wasn't that overturned in court?
Yes, but a teacher still has to request his or her dues be automatically deducted, IIRC.

I had no idea membership had dropped that much. Do you have the link? Thanks.

movielib
05-30-12, 07:52 PM
They're already onto his legal defense fund deal now. OMG! He transferred $100k into it? Crook!

Also they continue to complain about how much of his money is coming from outside the state...of course since the Dems complain about outside money, they naturally give all of their outside money back, right? :rolleyes:

It becomes more comical by the day the things they're grasping at to try and vilify the guy.
Walker can have the legal defense fund if he or an agent of his is being investigated. There is not a shred of evidence that Walker is being investigated and he says he has been told he is not being investigated. But everyone knows every word out of his mouth is a lie, right? Just more flailing around.

Barrett has not said word one about any idea he has about anything. It's all attack, attack, attack and all of it is innuendo, nothing at all with the least bit of substance. It's rather pathetic, really. I have never seen a campaign so devoid of substance or truth.

movielib
05-30-12, 08:11 PM
What the hell will Barrett say now?
Here's the answer:

http://www.kenoshanews.com/news/walker_says_feds_approved_higher_job_numbers_384710355.html

However, Walker’s Democratic opponent in the recall, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, told reporters that he doesn’t believe Walker’s administration and he wants to see official confirmation.

“Anybody has a right to be suspicious,” Barrett said.
Yeah, that's it Barrett. Accuse Walker of lying again, which would be the stupidest thing Walker could do just six days before the election. He would have to be an absolute idiot, a label only Barrett can lay claim to.

But that's OK Barrett, just keep digging yourself in deeper. Barrett had to know "Walker's numbers" (i.e. the all but final true numbers) were real. But he thought he could get away with accusing Walker of "cooking the books" and making things up because he thought the numbers wouldn't be released until the end of June. Now he's caught with no way out and he can't admit it. Maybe he's now wishing Falk had won the primary so she would have been the one to look like a freaking liar and idiot.

movielib
05-30-12, 10:03 PM
Yes, but a teacher still has to request his or her dues be automatically deducted, IIRC.

I had no idea membership had dropped that much. Do you have the link? Thanks.
Found the article and it's worth reading.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304821304577436462413999718.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Updated May 30, 2012, 7:57 p.m. ET
Wisconsin Unions See Ranks Drop Ahead of Recall Vote
By DOUGLAS BELKIN and KRIS MAHER

Public-employee unions in Wisconsin have experienced a dramatic drop in membership—by more than half for the second-biggest union—since a law championed by Republican Gov. Scott Walker sharply curtailed their ability to bargain over wages and working conditions.

Now with Mr. Walker facing a recall vote Tuesday, voters will decide whether his policies in the centrist state should continue—or whether they have gone too far.

The election could mark a pivot point for organized labor.

Mr. Walker's ouster would derail the political career of a rising Republican star and send a warning to other elected officials who are battling unions. But a victory for the governor, who has been leading his Democratic opponent in recent polls, would amount to an endorsement of an effort to curtail public-sector unions, which have been a pillar of strength for organized labor while private-sector membership has dwindled.

That could mean the sharp losses that some Wisconsin public-worker unions have experienced is a harbinger of similar unions' future nationwide, union leaders fear. Failure to oust Mr. Walker and overturn the Wisconsin law "spells doom," said Bryan Kennedy, the American Federation of Teachers' Wisconsin president.

Wisconsin membership in the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees—the state's second-largest public-sector union after the National Education Association, which represents teachers—fell to 28,745 in February from 62,818 in March 2011, according to a person who has viewed Afscme's figures. A spokesman for Afscme declined to comment.

Much of that decline came from Afscme Council 24, which represents Wisconsin state workers, whose membership plunged by two-thirds to 7,100 from 22,300 last year.

A provision of the Walker law that eliminated automatic dues collection hurt union membership. When a public-sector contract expires the state now stops collecting dues from the affected workers' paychecks unless they say they want the dues taken out, said Peter Davis, general counsel of the Wisconsin Employment Relations Commission.

In many cases, Afscme dropped members from its rolls after it failed to get them to affirm they want dues collected, said a labor official familiar with Afscme's figures. In a smaller number of cases, membership losses were due to worker layoffs.

Tina Pocernich, a researcher at Wisconsin Indianhead Technical College, was a dues-paying union member for 15 years. But after the Walker law went into effect she told the American Federation of Teachers she wanted out.

"It was a hard decision for me to make," said Ms. Pocernich, a 44-year-old mother of five, who left the union in March. "But there's nothing the union can do anymore."

But economic factors also played a role. Mr. Walker required public-sector employees to shoulder a greater share of pension and health-care costs, which ate up an added $300 of Ms. Pocernich's monthly salary of less than $3,100. She and her husband, a floor supervisor at a machine shop, cut back on their satellite-TV package and stopped going to weekly dinners at Applebee's.

Meanwhile, she said, she paid the AFT $18.50 out of her biweekly paycheck and was now getting nothing in return. Her college eliminated one small-but-treasured perk, the ability to punch out an hour early during summer months—and the union was powerless to stop it.

In the nearly 15 months since Mr. Walker signed the law, 6,000 of the AFT's Wisconsin 17,000 members quit, the union said. It blamed the drop on the law.

A Walker victory would have other reverberations. It could put Wisconsin—which President Barack Obama won by nearly 14 percentage points in 2008—into play in this November's presidential contest, requiring his campaign to devote valuable resources to defending it. Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney has strongly backed Mr. Walker's efforts.

Mr. Walker, 44, has likened his policies to Ronald Reagan's breaking of the air-traffic-controllers union in 1981. He says unions make it difficult to balance budgets while maintaining government services without raising taxes. Backers have poured more than $30 million into his campaign since last year, compared with $3.9 million raised by his opponent, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, who entered the race in late March.

A victory by Mr. Walker "will be a dramatic signal to local and state politicians they can, in the name of fiscal responsibility, tell unions…to come into parity with private-sector workers, especially on benefits," said Michael Lotito, a San Francisco attorney who represents management in labor disputes and has testified on labor issues before Congress.

The Walker law sharply curbed collective bargaining for nearly all the state's public-employee unions except those for police and firefighters. Unions no longer can represent members in negotiations for better working conditions or for pay raises beyond the increase in inflation.

Unions have spent millions of dollars on TV ads campaigning against Mr. Walker. "Unions are putting a lot on the line and if they win, they win big, but if they lose, they lose even bigger," said Gary Chaison, a professor of industrial relations at Clark University. A loss "will be interpreted as a sign of weakness and a lack of public sympathy."

Organized labor's strength has been declining for 60 years, as unions failed to keep pace with globalization, an increasingly service-oriented economy and more aggressive opposition from employers. Today, just one in eight American workers is a union member compared with more than one in three in the mid-1950s.

But that decline has come almost entirely in the private sector, where only 7% of workers today are union members. Public-sector union membership rates have held steady at around 37% since 1979, and the number of members has increased, thanks to growth in government employment. In 2009, for the first time, there were more union members in government than in companies.

The Labor Department estimates Wisconsin had 187,000 public-worker union members last year, but it hasn't updated the data for this year. The Wisconsin affiliate of the National Education Association declined to comment on any membership change.

Public-employee unions are under pressure elsewhere, too, as state and local officials cut spending in the wake of the recession, although the unions have won some fights. Ohio voters last year overturned a Republican law that went even further than Wisconsin's in limiting bargaining rights for public-sector unions by including police and firefighters.

But Republican governors Mitch Daniels of Indiana and Chris Christie of New Jersey have seen their popularity rise after taking on unions, and even some Democratic mayors in big cities—such as Chicago's Rahm Emanuel—have been pressing unions to accept concessions to help balance budgets.

Membership declines could be self-perpetuating, said Mr. Chaison of Clark University. With diminished dues, unions deliver fewer services, making membership less appealing and hampering recruiting.

The fight in Wisconsin has spawned bitter rancor across a state whose divergent progressive and conservative political traditions were long balanced by a culture of political compromise.

After Mr. Walker proposed the law, hundreds of thousands of union members and other labor supporters shut down the state capital for weeks, and Democratic lawmakers fled to Illinois to try to prevent the quorum the bill needed to pass. Union organizers helped gather more than 900,000 signatures to force the recall election.

But the unions also have made mistakes. They spent $4 million backing Kathleen Falk, a labor-friendly former official in Madison, who was crushed in the May 8 Democratic primary by Mr. Barrett.

Meanwhile, collective-bargaining rights for public employees has receded as an issue, with far more people saying in recent polls that job creation is their top priority.
Just as I said, state workers can request their dues be automatically deducted from their paychecks. Act 10 forbade that completely but that part of the law was overturned in court. I would say that was the correct decision on that point.

As I said, I had no idea the membership had decreased so much. Can't say I'm sorry about that.

wmansir
05-30-12, 10:21 PM
Yes, but a teacher still has to request his or her dues be automatically deducted, IIRC.

Ok, I thought the ruling reinstated automatic deductions unless the employee opted out of the union. I don't think the state should be doing the withholding at all, but being opt in isn't so bad.

movielib
05-30-12, 10:38 PM
Ok, I thought the ruling reinstated automatic deductions unless the employee opted out of the union. I don't think the state should be doing the withholding at all, but being opt in isn't so bad.
I'm totally OK with the idea of it. But thinking about it I suppose the law on that point should have been overturned only if that provision violated the Wisconsin Constitution. Not sure why it would.

movielib
05-31-12, 07:31 AM
With the final job numbers out and indisputable (unless Walker is just out and out lying which is a ridiculous charge), Wisconsin Democratic Party Chair Mike Tate (regularly mocked as "Little Man Tate" by conservative talk show hosts) is reduced to charging that the release of the numbers is "illegal," a charge refuted by the Feds themselves.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/walker-official-says-feds-have-verified-his-jobs-numbers-rr5k05r-155828825.html

Walker official says feds have verified his jobs numbers
By John Schmid of the Journal Sentinel
May 30, 2012

In the latest twist of the political saga over Wisconsin's employment data, the administration of Gov. Scott Walker on Wednesday said the job-growth numbers that he made public earlier than normal have been verified by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Wisconsin Department of Workforce Development spokesman John Dipko said the Washington-based agency confirmed Wednesday that Wisconsin added 23,608 jobs in 2011. That figure is slightly higher than the initial 2011 figure publicized by Walker, which showed a gain of 23,321 last year.

However, Rick Clayton, a senior Bureau of Labor Statistics official on Wednesday would only confirm that the agency had completed its review of Wisconsin's 2011 jobs data.

Clayton, who oversees the preparation of the state jobs data, declined to say whether the figure used by Walker was accurate.

"We have completed our review of the data, and we will release that data on June 28," which is the regularly scheduled release data, Clayton said.

The jobs numbers dominated political debate Wednesday night after Walker's announcement.

In response to Walker, Democratic Party of Wisconsin Chairman Mike Tate issued a statement claiming that Walker's pre-release is "illegal" - a charge that a bureau official said is unfounded.

Tate cited a 2006 order by the commissioner of the bureau that said it is illegal to pre-release monthly bureau jobs data, which at the national level comes with a closely held embargo and is highly sensitive because it can cause major moves in financial markets.

But the monthly BLS data, which is collected and owned by the federal government, is different from the Quarterly Census of Employment and Wages data, which is the information Walker released. The Quarterly Census data is collected and owned by each state, Clayton said.

"The commissioner's order does not apply to the (Quarterly Census of Employment and Wages,)," Clayton said. "The states have the right to use it as they see fit."

Job creation is a central focus in the gubernatorial recall election Tuesday between Republican Walker and Democrat Tom Barrett. In an unusual move two weeks ago, Walker released the preliminary job numbers, before the bureau had finished reviewing them.

Walker promised in the 2010 campaign that the state would gain 250,000 jobs by the end of his four-year term.

The 2011 figures touted by Walker from the quarterly census of more than 95% of all state employers is regarded as the most accurate available.

The census figures appear to discredit monthly job count data, which is based on a survey of less than 5% of the state's employers. The monthly figures indicate that Wisconsin lost more jobs last year than any other state last year. Those monthly survey figures, however, come with a high margin of error, according to officials at the bureau.

The dual sets of jobs data are at the center of the state's political debate. Barrett has accused Walker of "cooking the books" and trying to spin the numbers to his advantage.

"I'm waiting for the official numbers from the bureau of labor statistics," Barrett said after a campaign rally in Madison on Wednesday evening.

Now that the bureau has signed off on the Wisconsin data, Dipko said the state would publish the figures on Friday on the website of the Department of Workforce Development.
While the Feds will not officially release the information for a month, they have made it clear the state has received that information, owns that information and can do whatever it wants with it.

That Democrats continue to dispute these numbers gets more and more bizarre.

aktick
05-31-12, 07:53 AM
So basically now they're saying, "ok, we'll give you that the job numbers are in fact correct, but you shouldn't have been able to announce that until after June 5th!" :whofart:

I know attack ads and negativity are basically the norm nowadays in politics, but the asinine attacks the Dems are making at this point are quite amazing. I'm just afraid there are plenty of idiots that will believe it all simply because they saw it on a TV commercial...

Five more days. :fc:

movielib
05-31-12, 08:04 AM
Survey of Northeast Wisconsin CEOs confirms they are waiting for the election to decide on business expansion and job creation and highly favor Walker.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/walker-official-says-feds-have-verified-his-jobs-numbers-rr5k05r-155828825.html

Almost three-fourths of northeastern Wisconsin executives surveyed about the June 5 recall election predict the outcome will have a significant or moderate impact on their businesses, and 91% who commented said a victory by Gov. Scott Walker would have a positive effect.

The quarterly Nicolet Bank Business Pulse survey of top executives in 10 northeastern Wisconsin counties found that 51% said the outcome will have a significant impact on their business, while 23% predicted a moderate impact. Ten percent said the outcome of the recall will have a slight impact, 14% said it would have no impact and 2% weren't sure.

The survey, conducted May 10-17 by St. Norbert College political science professor David G. Wegge, included an open-ended question on how the CEOs thought a win by Walker or Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett would affect their business. While nine out of 10 said Walker would have a positive impact, 7% saw positive effects from a Barrett victory.

The survey included 165 chief executives and business owners in Brown, Calumet, Door, Kewaunee, Manitowoc, Marinette, Oconto, Outagamie, Shawano and Winnebago counties - an economic development region called NEW North - by Green Bay-based Nicolet National Bank.

"While there are a few business owners and CEOs who do not view a Walker win as positive, it is clear that the vast majority of the NEW North CEOs is solidly behind Scott Walker," the survey concluded.
The full report is here:

http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/view_online.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nicoletbank.com%2Fthevault%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F05%2FQ1_2012_RECALL_IMPACT.pdf

Some open ended comments:

Positive themes (91%) in the open-ended comments regarding a Walker win include:

* Reduces uncertainty about the future;
* Expenditures and taxes will go down;
* Wisconsin’s business climate will improve;
* Reduces governmental interference in business;
* Businesses will hire more people and invest in their business

Negative themes (93%) regarding a Barrett win include:

* We will return to big government, increased expenditures and increased taxes;
* Return to the past and the reforms we have made will be lost;
* Business climate will worsen, few businesses will come to Wisconsin and some will leave;
* Business will hold tight on any aggressive growth of their business

(Emphasis in original)

While some, such as at least one person who has commented here, may think the beliefs of the CEOs are irrational and they are evil, greedy bastards (I don't), the fact is that it is what the vast majority do believe and many company owners and managers are clearly waiting on future plans to see who wins this election. Can anyone doubt that this is holding down expansion and job creation until the results are in and a Walker win will mean more expansion and jobs and a Barrett win will mean less, if not none, or even contraction?

aktick
05-31-12, 08:44 AM
I'd be curious what Madison area business owners think. I'm sure none would publicly support Walker for fear of their business/products/services being boycotted, but I'd imagine most are quietly hoping he pulls it off.

movielib
05-31-12, 11:02 AM
I'd be curious what Madison area business owners think. I'm sure none would publicly support Walker for fear of their business/products/services being boycotted, but I'd imagine most are quietly hoping he pulls it off.
I'm a business owner and as vocal as I am here, I am completely mute on the subject at work. But I would be even if this were Waukesha County because I don't think my political opinions should be stated at work and I want to sell stuff to everyone.

I have seen a few Recall Walker signs at stores but very few (but then I almost never go downtown where they are probably more abundant). Of course, no Walker signs at all. In total I have now seen five Walker bumper stickers in the whole 16 months and two yard signs.

I don't know about most Madison business owners hoping Walker wins (I doubt it) but I would guess that it's at least a higher percentage than the general population.

movielib
05-31-12, 03:39 PM
Second and last debate is tonight at 9:00pm CDT. I didn't know it at the time but the first debate was carried by C-Span so this one probably will be too. If anyone's interested.

One website says CNN is carrying it but I don't know if that's true. Looks like that hour is usually just a repeat of Anderson Cooper so it makes sense they might do it.

Meanwhile, Bill Clinton is coming to Milwaukee tomorrow for Barrett. Now I'm afraid. :lol:

NORML54601
05-31-12, 06:23 PM
All the local news station in La Crosse are airing it live. I can't wait for this whole damn thing to be over so all the Walker commercials (I've only seen a couple from Barrett) will go away.

movielib
06-01-12, 10:17 AM
I think Barrett did better in this debate which was much more informal with the two candidates sitting around a table (I do think Barrett had a much better position, facing the main camera while Walker was usually just in profile). There was one moderator who asked questions and let the candidates spar. Mike Gousha, the moderator, was pretty fair.

Barrett continued his attack attack attack mode and seemed to be disrespectful toward Walker, calling him and referring to him repeatedly as "Scott" (which he also did in the last debate). Barrett pretty much called Walker a liar throughout, without actually using the word.

Walker did a little more to defend himself and give some back but was still far more respectful of Barrett. Both seemed evasive on subjects they didn't like that much, Walker on the John Doe (although he defended himself well) and "Divide and "Conquer" and the "Civil War" (which wasn't mentioned in those words until the last five minutes, unlike last week when he used it about a dozen times). Barrett was evasive on the job numbers because he had no case at all but he bluff and blustered through it. He was also evasive about Milwaukee crime numbers which had shown a decrease in violent crime but then the Journal Sentinel found hundreds of assault cases that were clearly violent but were reported as lesser offenses in the official police records. Violent crime in Milwaukee went up, not down as Barrett had claimed. Barrett admitted some figures were reported wrong but cherry picked a couple that had gone down, murder - a good one, and car thefts, maybe not so good. Barrett also continued to evade questions on what he would have done to fix the deficit and what plan he had for going forward. As always, he has nothing for this and his plan is always "well, I wouldn't have done what you did, Scott."

Barrett, who is usually described as a real nice guy, rather ineffectual, even lazy, seemed rather uncomfortable on the attack last week. This time he seemed comfortable being an attack dog. He made a lot of faces (not real overt but definitely there) as if he were disgusted with Walker's horribleness.

Walker did very well on jobs and the business climate.

I think I scored the first debate about 80-20 Walker and I give this one to Walker 60-40. But Barrett's crowd I'm sure thought he won big. I don't think they thought that last week.

aktick
06-05-12, 07:54 AM
Today's the day...hoping for a big Walker win (duh :lol:) if for no other reason than it should shut the whiners up for a while. If he wins and it's close? Ugh. Recounts.

JayDerek
06-05-12, 08:28 AM
no matter the vote, there will be whiners...guaranteed.

I'll be voting in a couple hours

aktick
06-05-12, 11:37 AM
Voted at around 10, and it was by far the busiest I've ever seen it. Given my town's usual voting habits, that makes me cautiously optimistic.

movielib
06-05-12, 02:23 PM
I'll be voting in a couple of hours when my wife gets home.

movielib
06-05-12, 03:58 PM
Not many there when my wife and I voted. In and out in minutes, no lines at all.

Probably because it was before most people got off work.

But I'd like it if Madison voting is lighter than they thought it would be.

aktick
06-05-12, 05:29 PM
Just got a robo-call...simply said the lady's name, today is election today, get out and vote by 8, and you do NOT need an ID. Paid for by Barrett. :lol:

JasonF
06-05-12, 05:45 PM
Just got a robo-call...simply said the lady's name, today is election today, get out and vote by 8, and you do NOT need an ID. Paid for by Barrett. :lol:

:shrug: Someone was making robocalls yesterday saying "If you signed the recall petition, you don't need to go vote -- your vote is already recorded," so I can see why the Barrett campaign wants to get out in front of that. And they are not wrong about Wisconsin election law -- the election is today, you can vote until 8:00, and you don't need to show ID.

movielib
06-05-12, 05:48 PM
I got a call from We are Wisconsin ("progressive" group) yesterday asking if I was going to vote for Barrett. I said "absolutely not." He asked if I was going to vote for Walker and I said "yes." I just wanted to tell someone that after all these months of keeping it all to myself (except for my wife and a few friends). He was very nice and friendly even though I wasn't going to vote his way. I'm sure they get instructions to be.

This morning on my way to work I gave someone holding a Barrett sign by the side of the road a (friendly) thumbs down. Just wanted to do that too. :)

General Zod
06-05-12, 06:00 PM
:shrug: Someone was making robocalls yesterday saying "If you signed the recall petition, you don't need to go vote -- your vote is already recorded," so I can see why the Barrett campaign wants to get out in front of that.
Yeah well anyone stupid enough to fall for that probably can't figure out how to punch their ballot anyhow.

Drudge is announcing Walker by about 5%.. or the same as a couple of years ago when that recall failed. Oh and that's with a 119% voter turnout in Madison.. :lol:

aktick
06-05-12, 06:04 PM
:shrug: Someone was making robocalls yesterday saying "If you signed the recall petition, you don't need to go vote -- your vote is already recorded," so I can see why the Barrett campaign wants to get out in front of that. And they are not wrong about Wisconsin election law -- the election is today, you can vote until 8:00, and you don't need to show ID.

Yeah, and they're all fucking stupid. :lol:

It was just funny how much emphasis was placed on the fact that you didn't need to show an ID. Vote early and often! :p

aktick
06-05-12, 06:05 PM
Yeah well anyone stupid enough to fall for that probably can't figure out how to punch their ballot anyhow.

Ha! Jokes on you! No ballot punching here...we get to complete an arrow with a marker. :)

movielib
06-05-12, 06:08 PM
Yeah well anyone stupid enough to fall for that probably can't figure out how to punch their ballot anyhow..
At this point I'm skeptical this claim can pass the smell test. I've searched for a recording and can find none, which one would think would be online if it really happened. And if it did (I do not deny the possibility), it seems at least as likely it's a Democratic trick to foment anger at the Republicans as that the Republicans would pull such a lame-ass trick which would be totally ineffective and possibly create a backlash. So even if a recording surfaces, it could be the Democrats. Not saying some very stupid Republican couldn't have done it though.

NORML54601
06-05-12, 06:11 PM
No line to vote when I went but there was a big line of people registering. That's not unusual around here though given all the college kids. I was the 384th ballot and that was around 3:30.

JasonF
06-05-12, 07:26 PM
At this point I'm skeptical this claim can pass the smell test. I've searched for a recording and can find none, which one would think would be online if it really happened. And if it did (I do not deny the possibility), it seems at least as likely it's a Democratic trick to foment anger at the Republicans as that the Republicans would pull such a lame-ass trick which would be totally ineffective and possibly create a backlash. So even if a recording surfaces, it could be the Democrats. Not saying some very stupid Republican couldn't have done it though.

It could be space aliens. We can't rule it out. The important thing is that we come up with a rationalization that allows me to continue to think my side is angelic and free of sin.

movielib
06-05-12, 07:38 PM
It could be space aliens. We can't rule it out. The important thing is that we come up with a rationalization that allows me to continue to think my side is angelic and free of sin.
I think "my side" has done plenty of crap. Sorry if I don't buy every story just because someone said it.

Which is why I haven't posted this:

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2012/06/05/wisconsin-votes-today-whats-happening-on-ground

Crap like this happens every election.

JasonF
06-05-12, 07:53 PM
I think "my side" has done plenty of crap. Sorry if I don't buy every story just because someone said it.

It's not so much the "I'd like some evidence" part of your post that bothered me, it was the "It's just as likely the Democrats were suppressing their own voters in a double secret plan to make Scott Walker look bad" part of your post.

JasonF
06-05-12, 07:55 PM
Oh, and if it's true that people are being bussed in from out of state to vote illegally, then both the voters and the organizers should be prosecuted.

aktick
06-05-12, 08:45 PM
Voter turnout in Madison supposedly over 100%. :lol:

DGibFen
06-05-12, 08:55 PM
NBC has projected Walker retains. They appear to be the only news organization making this projection at this time.

Live update map: http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/wisconsin-recall-results?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008#map

EDIT: Fox News & CNN concur that Walker retains.

BearFan
06-05-12, 09:05 PM
Excellent news!

movielib
06-05-12, 09:18 PM
It's turning into a frickin' rout. All the Republican senators are ahead too.

X
06-05-12, 09:21 PM
I'm sure many Democrats are worried that the 2010 elections weren't just a fluke.

aktick
06-05-12, 09:31 PM
It's turning into a frickin' rout. All the Republican senators are ahead too.

:up: I'm sure my Town is at least 70-30 Walker. Fantastic.

Ranger
06-05-12, 09:33 PM
Yeah, I was wondering how often a governor was successfully recalled and Gray Davis was the only name to come to mind. Only the second one, the first was in 1921 (maybe c-man and movielib remember :)).
Prior to California's 2003 gubernatorial recall election, the only successful recall of a governor to date took place in North Dakota in 1921, when voters removed from office not only Governor Lynn J. Frazier, but also the attorney general and the commissioner of agriculture. California voters have initiated 32 gubernatorial recall attempts since 1911, but the 2003 recall of Governor Gray Davis in 2003 was the first to ever reach the ballot.
http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/recall-of-state-officials.aspx

BearFan
06-05-12, 09:34 PM
Race was called for the Lt Governor as well, GOP win as well.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/june-5-recall-election-results-155977565.html

silentbob007
06-05-12, 09:40 PM
I heard a report that Dane County had 115% voter turn-out since they allow day-of-election registration. I'm just curious ... what is the vetting process for day-of registration?

Jason
06-05-12, 09:45 PM
Congratulations to the Koch Brothers! Enjoy your latest purchase! I'm sure he'll live up to every expectation.

aktick
06-05-12, 09:50 PM
Was hoping for about a 60-40 win, that looks like what we'll get. Even most of my Lib friends are happy with it, just so we don't have to worry about recounts or any future recalls.

aktick
06-05-12, 09:52 PM
Congratulations to the Koch Brothers! Enjoy your latest purchase! I'm sure he'll live up to every expectation.

:lol: They weren't involved in this much at all. Hell, even the Dems in the state weren't bringing them up this go round, so congrats on being even more insane than our own ultra-Libs. ;) (I kid, because I love :p)

movielib
06-05-12, 09:54 PM
Congratulations to the Koch Brothers! Enjoy your latest purchase! I'm sure he'll live up to every expectation.
I wish I knew if you were kidding (I think so?). :lol:

movielib
06-05-12, 09:56 PM
I heard a report that Dane County had 115% voter turn-out since they allow day-of-election registration. I'm just curious ... what is the vetting process for day-of registration?
With half the state of Michigan registering, I'm surprised it's that low. ;)

movielib
06-05-12, 10:02 PM
It's not so much the "I'd like some evidence" part of your post that bothered me, it was the "It's just as likely the Democrats were suppressing their own voters in a double secret plan to make Scott Walker look bad" part of your post.
It's pretty outrageous but so would Republicans doing this because, as I said, it could not possibly be effective and would just rebound.

But if the Dems did it it would, as I said, not be to suppress their own vote (because it wouldn't) but to hope to get a backlash from it.

Still waiting for evidence but don't really care. I'm quite happy enough that the Dems/unions/professional protesters/Democratic senators fleeing to Illinois (you can have them, they'd fit right in there)/shame shame shame people got their asses whipped after putting us through this for 18 months.

Artman
06-05-12, 10:03 PM
Outstanding! Way to beat those Union thugs back. Now O's got another state he needs to fight for...

JasonF
06-05-12, 10:04 PM
:lol: They weren't involved in this much at all.

How do you know? There were tens of millions of dollars spent by outside group, the donors to which we generally don't know the identity of -- though we do know that over the past 12-18 months, the Koch brothers have donated millions of dollars to the Republican Governors Association, Americans for Prosperity, and the MacIver Institute, which among them have spent more than $10 million in support of Governor Walker's retention.

Ha -- I'm just fucking with you. We do know for sure.

Asked about his efforts to sway public opinion, [David] Koch acknowledges his group is hard at work in places such as Wisconsin, where Gov. Scott Walker is facing off with public unions and grappling with a likely recall vote.

"We're helping him, as we should. We've gotten pretty good at this over the years," he says. "We've spent a lot of money in Wisconsin. We're going to spend more."

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/money/david-koch-intends-to-cure-cancer-in-his-2185046.html?page=2&viewAsSinglePage=true

Of course, it's equally likely that he spent that money in support of Barrett to create an anti-Barrett backlash and lead voters to support Walker. Or something.

movielib
06-05-12, 10:06 PM
Three of the four Republicans have definitely held. The race from the Racine area (which was expected to be the closest) has the Republican leading 63-37 but only 10% of the precincts have reported. Everything else is over 67%. Don't know what is going on there.

JasonF
06-05-12, 10:07 PM
Outstanding! Way to beat those Union thugs back. Now O's got another state he needs to fight for...

:lol: The same polls that made it clear Walker would win show Obama defeating Romney pretty handily. November is a long way off and anything could happen -- particularly if the economy continues to slip -- but Obama is not going to be fighting for Wisconsin.

aktick
06-05-12, 10:09 PM
OK...yes...if it weren't for the Koch brothers, Walker would've lost. Happy? I like both of you guys, so I'm not going to get bent out of shape about it. I'm just happy tonight that Walker won CONVINCINGLY.

aktick
06-05-12, 10:12 PM
And yeah, I agree with Jason, Romney is definitely still behind. A LOT of my Lib friends who didn't like the recall (and therefore voted Walker) are also big Obama fans and don't have any strong feeling for Romney.

JasonF
06-05-12, 10:16 PM
OK...yes...if it weren't for the Koch brothers, Walker would've lost.
I disagree, and I don't think either Jason or I suggested that the Koch brothers swung the election. The fact is, recalls rarely succeed, and thanks to Wisconsin's quirky campaign finance laws around recalls, with or without Koch money, Walker was able to massively outspend Barrett.

Regardless, though, Walker is clearly the kind of governor the Koch brothers like, and they clearly spent a lot of money in support of his retention.

Bluelitespecial
06-05-12, 10:17 PM
So has Ed Schultz cried or had a heart attack yet?

movielib
06-05-12, 10:19 PM
And yeah, I agree with Jason, Romney is definitely still behind. A LOT of my Lib friends who didn't like the recall (and therefore voted Walker) are also big Obama fans and don't have any strong feeling for Romney.
Yeah, Romney is still definitely behind in Wisconsin. He's trailed in all the polls Walker led (where both races were polled). But I do think Wisconsin will be competitive. We're still purple. There's tons of time with millions of things that can happen.

movielib
06-05-12, 10:24 PM
I disagree, and I don't think either Jason or I suggested that the Koch brothers swung the election. The fact is, recalls rarely succeed,
But, for the record, this is the third governor recall in US history and the first that failed.

and thanks to Wisconsin's quirky campaign finance laws around recalls, with or without Koch money, Walker was able to massively outspend Barrett.
I agree. He did have a big advantage moneywise.

Regardless, though, Walker is clearly the kind of governor the Koch brothers like, and they clearly spent a lot of money in support of his retention.
I agree.

aktick
06-05-12, 10:26 PM
I disagree, and I don't think either Jason or I suggested that the Koch brothers swung the election. The fact is, recalls rarely succeed, and thanks to Wisconsin's quirky campaign finance laws around recalls, with or without Koch money, Walker was able to massively outspend Barrett.

Regardless, though, Walker is clearly the kind of governor the Koch brothers like, and they clearly spent a lot of money in support of his retention.

Haha, yeah, Jason didn't suggest the Koch brothers had anything to do with Walker's victory. God bless Chicago politics! :lol:

JasonF
06-05-12, 10:35 PM
Chicago politics! :lol:

Do you think you're being clever?

But if you want to talk about corrupt politics, what's the over-under on Governor Walker being indicted before the ink is dry on the certification of his recount victory?

Artman
06-05-12, 10:36 PM
but Obama is not going to be fighting for Wisconsin.

I'm going to remember this post. :)

Actually my point was that it's not quite the slam-dunk they probably assumed it was...Barry's going to have to make a few extra trips. Of course maybe he can just send Michelle and the kids, they're in all the online ads I'm seeing....

birdseye
06-05-12, 10:48 PM
Libs seem to be clinging to the exit poll that has Obama up 12 points, but those same exits polls had this race being 50/50 and too close to call. These exit polls are worse than the ones in 2004.

Artman
06-06-12, 12:27 AM
Any Dems out there proud of Gwen Moore representing you? My God, hearing those soundbytes today...how could anyone want any part of that thing? I'd even take Harry Reid over that.... at least his kids haven't been caught vandalizing property...

movielib
06-06-12, 06:00 AM
It looks like the Dems may have taken over the Senate. Van Wanggaard, in the Racine district I was mentioning above lost to John Lehman in the unofficial results by less than 800 votes. If that holds up (I expect it will), the Dems take the Senate 17-16 and will have succeeded in a total of 3 out of 10 senate recalls going back to last year. It had more or less been lost already because of RINO Dale Schultz who voted against Act 10 (when Republicans had a 19-14 edge) and who helped kill the mining bill a couple of months ago. But now the Democrats will get committee chairs etc. Oh well, the Republicans just need to take it back in November.

Walker's final edge is 173,000 votes or 53%-46%. Reportedly most of the late votes were from Milwaukee. I knew the 60%-40% could not be real. Still, a little better than the 2010 margin.

The final Marquette poll (which Dems pooh-poohed) was right on the money at 52%-45%.

Edit: On the Senate, it's not in session until January next year.

coli
06-06-12, 06:53 AM
I had to watch MSNBC last night just to get a good laugh because I knew there would be a meltdown after they called the election by 10:00. Ed Schultz has to understand that this isn't the 1950's where every private sector company is union. The majority of union jobs are in the public sector and most private sector people like don't want to hear them complain that their healthcare isn't getting paid for anymore or they are losing their pensions. I have been working in the private sector my whole life, and I have to pay 100% of my healthcare and I've had a 401K plan since around 1999-2000. So please stop their bitching and moaning and understand that they have to contribute just like us private sector workers for our future.

classicman2
06-06-12, 07:04 AM
The Chicago teachers' union are threatening a strike beginning with the next school year. They're asking for a 30% raise. ;)

mosquitobite
06-06-12, 07:23 AM
Edit: On the Senate, it's not in session until January next year.

:lol: so they spent money on this election, and won't even meet with these people?

movielib
06-06-12, 07:35 AM
:lol: so they spent money on this election, and won't even meet with these people?
Not unless a special session is called.

But the lone, apparent Democratic winner will be in the Senate until at least Jan 2015. Unless he's recalled. :lol:

RoyalTea
06-06-12, 08:20 AM
But if you want to talk about corrupt politics, what's the over-under on Governor Walker being indicted before the ink is dry on the certification of his recount victory?

on what charges?

movielib
06-06-12, 08:35 AM
on what charges?
He may be referring to a desperate ploy by a lefty on the eve of the election claiming he had super secret information that Walker is a target of the John Doe investigation.

There is still no evidence whatsoever that Walker is a target.

CRM114
06-06-12, 10:59 AM
Good for Walker.

Let him serve his term and while you're at it, get rid of the dumb recall law that made this possible.

silentbob007
06-06-12, 11:22 AM
Good for Walker.

Let him serve his term and while you're at it, get rid of the dumb recall law that made this possible.

Agreed ... if there's not substantiated evidence of corruption, change the guy at the next election.

movielib
06-06-12, 12:07 PM
Good for Walker.

Let him serve his term and while you're at it, get rid of the dumb recall law that made this possible.
We should but it will take awhile at best. It needs a constitutional amendment which must be passed by both houses of the legislature in two consecutive sessions and then passed by a statewide referendum.

JasonF
06-06-12, 12:32 PM
He may be referring to a desperate ploy by a lefty on the eve of the election claiming he had super secret information that Walker is a target of the John Doe investigation.

There is still no evidence whatsoever that Walker is a target.

He has set up a legal defense fund and transfered campaign contributions into that fund, and my understanding is that you are only allowed to do that if you've been identified as a target of an investigation. But I'm not an expert on Wisconsin law governing what politicians can do with their donations, so maybe I'm misinformed.

movielib
06-06-12, 12:48 PM
He has set up a legal defense fund and transfered campaign contributions into that fund, and my understanding is that you are only allowed to do that if you've been identified as a target of an investigation. But I'm not an expert on Wisconsin law governing what politicians can do with their donations, so maybe I'm misinformed.
You are misinformed. He can set up a fund if he or an agent of his is being investigated.

I have said this before.

creekdipper
06-06-12, 01:34 PM
Walker should just say he was siphoning off funds to hide a mistress & all would be good.

rotfl at all of the lunkheads blaming Citizens United for the results, since all good liberals know that conservatives only take their marching orders from Fox (Faux) News. One visit to liberal websites will confirm that--over & over & over....

creekdipper
06-06-12, 01:36 PM
Libs seem to be clinging to the exit poll that has Obama up 12 points, but those same exits polls had this race being 50/50 and too close to call. These exit polls are worse than the ones in 2004.

Or Wisconsonites just like to play with the media.

creekdipper
06-06-12, 01:39 PM
He may be referring to a desperate ploy by a lefty on the eve of the election claiming he had super secret information that Walker is a target of the John Doe investigation.


I always wondered who pulled the plug...that was a good show.

creekdipper
06-06-12, 01:41 PM
I heard a report that Dane County had 115% voter turn-out since they allow day-of-election registration. I'm just curious ... what is the vetting process for day-of registration?

Pretty sure bet that Dane Cty doesn't require voter I.D.

Not so far-fetched that robocalls would be made telling petition-signers that they didn't need to vote. After all, everyone seems to believe that voters are heavily-influenced by partisan media ads...just like those people believe that every car they see in a tv commercial is the best of its class.

Everyone in our neighborhood has 15 cars, three boats, and a house full of Shopping Network doo-dads because we all believe everything we see on television.

movielib
06-06-12, 01:42 PM
I always wondered who pulled the plug...that was a good show.
Got John Doe four years on Prison Break.

creekdipper
06-06-12, 01:49 PM
So has Ed Schultz cried or had a heart attack yet?

Oddly enough, I thought Schultz was the sanest & calmest of the MSNBC floating heads. The others were spinning so fast that I worried about a China Syndrome event.

It was ironic to switch channels from MSNBC saying that Walker "barely survived" & "squeaked" back into office (it took four or five tries for Maddow to ever utter the word "win" in conjunction with Walker) to CNN demonstrating how the Repubs were "overperforming" and the Dems "underperforming" since the 2010 election. Also interesting to see Fox News actually interviewing Dems...didn't see any conservative voices on MSNBC.

Also interesting to contrast MSNBC categorizing Obama's avoidance of the Wisconsin fray as being "prudent" while liberals such as Paul Begala on CNN called it a mistake and suggested that it was a cowardly thing to do (and that the unions would remember).

creekdipper
06-06-12, 01:50 PM
Got John Doe four years on Prison Break.

At least he can be thankful for rats.

General Zod
06-06-12, 02:39 PM
Oddly enough, I thought Schultz was the sanest & calmest of the MSNBC floating heads. The others were spinning so fast that I worried about a China Syndrome event.

It was ironic to switch channels from MSNBC saying that Walker "barely survived" & "squeaked" back into office (it took four or five tries for Maddow to ever utter the word "win" in conjunction with Walker) to CNN demonstrating how the Repubs were "overperforming" and the Dems "underperforming" since the 2010 election. Also interesting to see Fox News actually interviewing Dems...didn't see any conservative voices on MSNBC.

Also interesting to contrast MSNBC categorizing Obama's avoidance of the Wisconsin fray as being "prudent" while liberals such as Paul Begala on CNN called it a mistake and suggested that it was a cowardly thing to do (and that the unions would remember).

I noticed (and posted) that Drudge said early on in the day that his sources were reporting that, according to exit polls, Walker would hold on by about 5%. He had that on his site for hours. Then, hours later, I flipped on CNN and Blitzer was talking about how it was razor close 50/50 according to their exit polls. I flipped back to Drudge and he had already called it for Walker. I've posted before that I trust Drudge to any media outlet out there.. this was just another example as to why.

CRM114
06-06-12, 03:18 PM
Any sensible person could tell that Barrett had no shot. He never led in any poll and was a peripheral character in Wisconsin anyway. CNN is just trying to keep eyeballs on the TV especially the true believers.

aktick
06-06-12, 03:45 PM
Any sensible person could tell that Barrett had no shot. He never led in any poll and was a peripheral character in Wisconsin anyway. CNN is just trying to keep eyeballs on the TV especially the true believers.

Walker probably would've lost if the Dems could've found a decent candidate. Falk probably would have lost by 10%. That was their biggest mistake - doing all the work to force the recall without much of a plan for who to run.

movielib
06-06-12, 04:09 PM
Walker probably would've lost if the Dems could've found a decent candidate. Falk probably would have lost by 10%. That was their biggest mistake - doing all the work to force the recall without much of a plan for who to run.
The one who scared the shit out of me was Feingold. But seeing how Walker beat Barrett in 2010 and Johnson beat Feingold, Russ, while inarguably still very popular in Wisconsin, is clearly not invincible. I think Walker could have beaten him but I'm glad I didn't have to find out.

Jason
06-06-12, 05:05 PM
Walker should just say he was siphoning off funds to hide a mistress & all would be good.

rotfl at all of the lunkheads blaming Citizens United for the results, since all good liberals know that conservatives only take their marching orders from Fox (Faux) News. One visit to liberal websites will confirm that--over & over & over....

Actually, the money flowed for Walker because of a Wisconsin law regarding recall elections that states the sitting politician has no limit on contributions, while the challenger was limited to $10,000 per donor.

Artman
06-06-12, 05:13 PM
The majority of union jobs are in the public sector and most private sector people like don't want to hear them complain that their healthcare isn't getting paid for anymore or they are losing their pensions.

I don't get it either... we don't even place importance on seniority at my company, if anything it gets harder as you get older. The idea that a job is guaranteed, or "owed", just seems foreign to me. Don't get me wrong, it'd be nice... but people get lazy under those circumstances.

BearFan
06-06-12, 06:06 PM
I would assume recall reform will happen in WI soon, the exit polls indicated about 60% agreed that it should only be in the case of serious charges/corruption. Not based on policy decisions.

movielib
06-06-12, 06:37 PM
Actually, the money flowed for Walker because of a Wisconsin law regarding recall elections that states the sitting politician has no limit on contributions, while the challenger was limited to $10,000 per donor.
Not exactly. As the target of a recall, Walker could raise unlimited funds from the time the petitions were delivered (about mid-January) until the time the recall process was finalized (around the end of March). Advantage for Walker - certainly. But...

A Wisconsin State Journal report on May 21 showed that since this whole mess began, fundraising is very close to even - $35 million to Democrats and $36.9 million to Republicans. The Dems put a lot more into everything early like the 2011 recalls and the Supreme Court race. There was only so much more the Dems' supporters were willing to throw in when they had very little to show for it in 2011.

http://m.host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/campaign-donations-despite-rhetoric-the-parties-mountains-of-money-are/article_5e89cdf6-a1dd-11e1-bea4-0019bb2963f4.html

So it's not nearly as simple as you may think.

X
06-06-12, 06:56 PM
What's the labor of people on the ground, collecting signatures, registering like-minded voters, dragging people to the polls, etc. valued at?

Jason
06-06-12, 07:07 PM
what's the labor of people on the ground, collecting signatures, registering like-minded voters, dragging people to the polls, etc. Valued at?

$0

DeputyDave
06-06-12, 07:26 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Q8KeO_lirBo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Duran
06-06-12, 07:38 PM
If money is really the major deciding factor in our elections, the problem isn't with the donors.

movielib
06-06-12, 08:17 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Q8KeO_lirBo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I heard that on the radio today. Good grief, what a baby. A stupid baby at that.

Nick Danger
06-06-12, 08:40 PM
If money is really the major deciding factor in our elections, the problem isn't with the donors.

Advertising money gets people to decide where to eat, what clothes to wear, and what laundry soap to use.

All that the money needed to do was shift 5% of the voters in favor of Walker. Elections are commonly that close. So the side with an overwhelmingly large cashbox will commonly win.

RoyalTea
06-06-12, 08:47 PM
http://twitchy.com/2012/06/06/kill-scott-walker-angry-libs-flood-twitter-with-death-threats-after-wisconsin-recall-defeat/

@__SupaMcNASTY__
KILL SCOTT WALKER KILL SCOTT WALKER KILL SCOTT WALKER KILL SCOTT WALKER KILL SCOTT WALKER KILL SCOTT WALKER! Ole Bitch Ass Pig Ass Nigga!!!!
5 Jun 12


Yvonne'(:@BallinnSince_96
Somebody gone kill Scott Walker man.
5 Jun 12 ReplyRetweetFavorite
@DONTTouchTheFRO
They gone JFK Scott Walker. Shoot his mfn head off BANG BANG!!! *chief keef voice* ����—
ERIN M. (@DONTTouchTheFRO) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
@__SupaMcNASTY__
Ima fuck Scott walker up. I been wanting to for the longest anyways lowkey.—
`Marques.Scoot. (@__SupaMcNASTY__) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
@__SupaMcNASTY__
Ima be right back! I'm finna go kill #ScottWalker bitch ass dawg. Nbs!—
`Marques.Scoot. (@__SupaMcNASTY__) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
@SeXXX_Symbol_
Somebody need to Abe Lincoln Scott Walker cave frog lookin ass.—
Ocean Gang Goon (@SeXXX_Symbol_) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
EEE@EEElverhoy
??? RT @xDIMPLES_: Somebody go kill scott walker or shoot his punk ass I wish I could watch when it happen lol he got me being evil x shit
5 Jun 12 ReplyRetweetFavorite
@DomoSoloDolo
I wanna kill scott walker so fucking baddd!!!!! & the racist dumb assholes that voted for him #nbs—
FatBitchess&GoodWeed (@DomoSoloDolo) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
@Prototypeisgame
Please somebody kill Scott Walker.—
(@Prototypeisgame) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
@All_Onaa_Hoeee
Umm imma Start A Damn Kill Scott Walker Committee ! Who w. Me ?—
Nakeshaa BITCH $$$ (@All_Onaa_Hoeee) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
@realwesleywess
Someone from the NRA should shoot Scott Walker in the head, GTA-style.—
Wesley Lam (@realwesleywess) June 06, 2012
6 Jun 12
@caleb_white
I might just have to kill scott walker n take that charge—
AHH FACK IM BASED! (@caleb_white) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
@caleb_white
Scott walker will die within the next week ive already payed for the hit—
AHH FACK IM BASED! (@caleb_white) June 06, 2012
6 Jun 12
@xDIMPLES_
Somebody go kill scott walker or shoot his punk ass I wish I could watch when it happen lol he got me being evil x shit but FUCKKKKK HIM NBS—
CAUTION im CUFFED ♡ (@xDIMPLES_) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
@BrothMan_BEEF
If you kill Scott Walker I will give you a big kissu—
Denver Hoxha (@BrothMan_BEEF) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
@ILoveLexiss
I'm not saying somebody should kill Scott Walker but uhhh Maybe somebody should Lincoln his ass jus saying—
LexXxie♥ (@ILoveLexiss) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
morgan y evans@morganyevans
Scott Walker needs to die
5 Jun 12 ReplyRetweetFavorite
Chelsea@chelseagirl
Before I die, I'd like to kick Scott Walker in the balls @theburiedlife
5 Jun 12 ReplyRetweetFavorite
@_SpikesxSpandex
Oh Yeah, Somebody Gone Shoot Scott Walker White Ass.—
6|Fourtheen|12( : (@_SpikesxSpandex) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
@JoshhyCashh
Scott Walker Must Die—
Josh James 凸(¬_¬)凸 (@JoshhyCashh) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
Karlä ♥@MexicanLust69
Scott walker needs fall down the capital stairs & die..
5 Jun 12 ReplyRetweetFavorite
♡ Junee7th ♥@Deshay_Nicolee
“@xOForever_Valid Somebody Should Shoot Scott Walker #NOLie! ^.^”
5 Jun 12 ReplyRetweetFavorite
@ColeyColeee_
Soo, who gone shoot Scott Walker!?—
♋ June 28th (: (@ColeyColeee_) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
@__HoopAHOLIC
I wanna shoot scott walker in the leg or something.—
Breeeeeeeezzzzyyy (@__HoopAHOLIC) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
@SKSunnyy
YOU BITCH ! Im Finna Assassinate Scott Walker Punk Ass ! Why The Fuck He Win Somebody SHOOT HIS ASS ! -___-—
July 4th 2014 . (@SKSunnyy) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
They are also threatening Gov. Walker’s wife and son:

@iWusGetnSumHead
NBS I Know What School Scott Walker Son Go To—
Tj Fucked Yo Bitch (@iWusGetnSumHead) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
@iWusGetnSumHead
AND If Scott Walker Got A Wife Imma Fuck Her Face—
Tj Fucked Yo Bitch (@iWusGetnSumHead) June 06, 2012
5 Jun 12
@TaeesWorld
If I ever see anybody of the Walker family on the street, ima pop they ass.—
Ya Girl Tae (@TaeesWorld) June 06, 2012

RoyalTea
06-06-12, 08:51 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xaKlsINl8hk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Christian Hartsock: So what’s your career advice for Kleefisch after we throw her out?

Protester: Run.

Hartsock: What?

Protester: Run, get the f— out of the state.

Hartsock: Why, what’s going to happen?

Protester: We’re coming after her anyways, so it doesn’t freaking matter anyways, win or lose.

Hartsock: What are we going to do with her?

Protester: I don’t know, hopefully the colon cancer will take her before we get her.

Hartsock: There you go, there you go. And if it doesn’t?

Protester: Just get the f— out of the state.

Duran
06-06-12, 08:52 PM
Advertising money gets people to decide where to eat, what clothes to wear, and what laundry soap to use.

All that the money needed to do was shift 5% of the voters in favor of Walker. Elections are commonly that close. So the side with an overwhelmingly large cashbox will commonly win.

Okay. Do you believe that conflicts with my statement?

movielib
06-06-12, 09:25 PM
Advertising money gets people to decide where to eat, what clothes to wear, and what laundry soap to use.

All that the money needed to do was shift 5% of the voters in favor of Walker. Elections are commonly that close. So the side with an overwhelmingly large cashbox will commonly win.
And a lot of that advertising informed people about how Act 10 was working, that the budget had been balanced, that taxes had been cut and that Wisconsin had gained more than 30,000 jobs and not lost more than 30,000. Evil stuff.

While there was the usual negative advertising by the Walker side, there was also a lot of positive. Walker ran on his record. I can't think of a single thing positive about Barrett ads. Except the claim that violent crime in Milwaukee had gone down under Barrett. Except it hadn't as it was based on faulty police records. And that Barrett would end the "Civil War" Walker has supposedly started. How would he do that? I guess there was no time for that in 30 second spots.

Nugent
06-07-12, 02:38 AM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Q8KeO_lirBo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

What a vagina!
Wow!, and people make fun of the way Southerners talk. :lol:

logrus9
06-07-12, 06:53 AM
Will there be any follow-up to the > 100% turnout in some districts?

aktick
06-07-12, 07:49 AM
Advertising money gets people to decide where to eat, what clothes to wear, and what laundry soap to use.

All that the money needed to do was shift 5% of the voters in favor of Walker. Elections are commonly that close. So the side with an overwhelmingly large cashbox will commonly win.

Which is probably the same reason a President hasn't lost re-election in forever.

classicman2
06-07-12, 09:04 AM
Forever?

1990 is not forever. ;)

aktick
06-07-12, 10:04 AM
Forever?

1990 is not forever. ;)

Wasn't it 92? And that's forever to me, I was 9 at the time! :p

classicman2
06-07-12, 04:01 PM
Wasn't it 92? And that's forever to me, I was 9 at the time! :p

You too will make silly mistakes, like years, when you get my age. :)

movielib
06-08-12, 10:33 AM
Unbelievable. Milwaukee County judge who signed recall petition doubles down.

http://www.maciverinstitute.com/2012/06/does-judge-reveal-bias-with-facebook-posting/

Does Judge Reveal Bias with Facebook Posting?
By MacIver Institute | Posted June 8, 2012 6:54 AM

[Milwaukee, Wisc] Does a Facebook posting and the subsequent comments to it reveal that the judicial deck in Milwaukee County is stacked against Governor Scott Walker?

On the morning after Tuesday's recall election victory for Walker, Milwaukee County Circuit Court Judge Dennis Cimpl took to Facebook to update his status message:

"Can you say Acting Governor Rebecca Kleifisch!"

Misspelling of her name notwithstanding, the post seems to infer that Lt. Governor Kleefisch will be elevated to Governor at some point in the future when the Governor leaves office mid-term. Several of the Judge's Facebook friends provided comments affirming their belief that the Governor will be indicted as a result of the two-year John Doe probe currently being conducted by Democratic Milwaukee County District Attorney John Chisholm.

The Landmark Legal Foundation has already called for an investigation of Cimpl and more than two dozen other judges for signing the petiton to recall Walker last year.

The Gannett newspapers conducted an investigaton that uncovered the fact that 29 judges signed the petitions.

According to Landmark Legal's complaint:

"The Preamble to the Wisconsin Code of Judicial Conduct, Supreme Court Rule (SCR) Chapter 60, makes very clear that judges are to be held to the highest standard for ethical conduct:

"Our legal system is based on the principle that an independent, fair and competent judiciary will interpret and apply the laws that govern us. The role of the judiciary is central to American concepts of justice and the rule of law. Intrinsic to all provisions of this Code are the precepts that judges, individually and collectively, must respect and honor the judicial office as a public trust and strive to enhance and maintain confidence in our legal system. The judge is an arbiter of facts and law for the resolution of disputes and a highly visible symbol of government under the rule of law."

movielib
06-08-12, 02:02 PM
It was inevitable. Hitler had to react to the Walker victory.

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VC_ult6-Tb4?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VC_ult6-Tb4?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

Only one criticism:

When Hitler says there's only one place left to go it should have been, and I'm sure you'll all know what I'm going to say:

Illinois.

General Zod
06-08-12, 08:17 PM
:lol: Well he got the Sacramento thing right.

Nick Danger
06-09-12, 06:07 AM
Okay. Do you believe that conflicts with my statement?

I was disagreeing with your implication that the problem was stupid voters. If your implication was that the campaign finance system is at fault, then I agree with you. If your intention was to say something that could be interpreted in multiple ways, and then to pounce when someone chose one interpretation over another, I fell into your trap.

movielib
06-09-12, 07:50 AM
http://watchdog.org/files/2012/06/Cartoon0606-300x224.jpg

movielib
06-12-12, 06:02 PM
Wisconsin public employee unions and other protesters ready to bury the hatchet - in Scott Walker's head. In other words, nothing has changed for them.

The day after:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ro6Qfm1ySKQ?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

(BTW, Miles Kristan is the guy who poured a beer onto a Republican legislator's head a few months ago.)

The week after:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xgT-SfSVXvY?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

General Zod
06-13-12, 11:34 AM
Yeah, Romney is still definitely behind in Wisconsin. He's trailed in all the polls Walker led (where both races were polled). But I do think Wisconsin will be competitive. We're still purple. There's tons of time with millions of things that can happen.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/wisconsin/election_2012_wisconsin_president

Election 2012: Wisconsin President Wisconsin: Romney 47%, Obama 44%

Mitt Romney now leads President Obama for the first time in Wisconsin where the president's support has fallen to its lowest level to date.

The latest Rasmussen Reports statewide telephone survey of Likely Voters shows Romney with 47% of the vote to Obama’s 44%. Five percent (5%) prefer some other candidate, and four percent (4%) are undecided. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

Prior to this survey, Obama's support in the state has ranged from 45% to 52%, while Romney has earned 41% to 45%. Last month, the numbers were Obama 49%, Romney 45%. The president led his likely Republican challenger by 11 points in March - 52% to 41%.

Just last week Republican Governor Scott Walker won a special recall election prompted by Democrats outraged over his successful move to limit collective bargaining rights for some unionized public employees in order to reduce Wisconsin's budget deficit.

Most voters (51%) in the state view public employee unions unfavorably, while 46% share a favorable opinion of them. This includes 33% with a Very Unfavorable view of the unions and 27% with a Very Favorable one. The president draws overwhelming support from voters who view public employee unions favorably, while Romney draws equally heavy support from those who view them unfavorably.

Forty-seven percent (47%) of voters in Wisconsin approve of the job Obama is doing, while 52% disapprove. These findings include 27% who Strongly Approve of the president’s job performance and 44% who Strongly Disapprove. These ratings are comparable to those measured nationally in the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll.

Romney is viewed favorably by 49% of Wisconsin voters and unfavorably by 45%. These numbers include Very Favorable reviews from 23% and Very Unfavorable ones by 30%.

The survey of 500 Likely Voters in Wisconsin was conducted on June 12, 2012 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 4.5 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.

Fifty-eight percent (58%) of Wisconsin voters say the choice between Obama and Romney is one they are excited about, while 34% say they will simply be voting for the lesser of two evils this November. This is a higher level of enthusiasm in Wisconsin about this year’s matchup than that measured nationwide.

The president is ahead 54% to 45% among voters who are excited about the 2012 matchup. Romney leads 48% to 33% among those who are just choosing the lesser of two evils.

Among voters not affiliated with either major political party in the Badger State, Romney draws 43% support to Obama’s 38%.

Male voters in the state prefer Romney 52% to 37%, while female voters support the president 50% to 42%.

In Wisconsin, 45% of Likely Voters rate their personal finances as good or excellent, while 14% describe them as poor. Twenty-seven percent (27%) believe their finances are getting better, but 39% say they are getting worse.

Though a plurality (46%) of Wisconsin voters recognizes that the government lost money in the bailouts of General Motors and Chrysler, 45% consider the auto industry bailouts a success. Thirty-six percent (36%) regard the bailouts as a failure. However, when told that the government is expected to lose billions of dollars on those bailouts, just 33% consider them a success, and 56% see them as a failure. This is comparable to findings nationally.

Romney also leads in North Carolina and Missouri. The race is a toss-up in Iowa, Ohio, Virginia, Florida and Colorado. Obama leads in Pennsylvania.

It appears to be in play.. at least for now.

aktick
06-13-12, 11:57 AM
Booooo! Rasmussen! Booooo! ;)

movielib
06-13-12, 12:56 PM
Booooo! Rasmussen! Booooo! ;)
:lol:

Yeah, we all know Rasmussen always skews to the right although he underestimated Walker's victory margin.

movielib
06-13-12, 12:57 PM
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/wisconsin/election_2012_wisconsin_president



It appears to be in play.. at least for now.
I think it will stay in play. I think there's a better chance for Romney to open a significant lead than Obama. Depending on what happens, of course.

General Zod
06-13-12, 02:09 PM
I think it will stay in play. I think there's a better chance for Romney to open a significant lead than Obama. Depending on what happens, of course.

Oh I agree. Wisconsin folks have seen what unions have done to their state and I think Romney can ride that anti-Union wave to victory there by about the same Margin as Walker did.

aktick
06-13-12, 03:37 PM
One thing to keep in mind is that quite a few liberals voted for Walker (or didn't vote at all) because they hated the fact there was a recall in the first place. Might have shifted things a couple % points.

creekdipper
06-13-12, 08:06 PM
Advertising money gets people to decide where to eat, what clothes to wear, and what laundry soap to use.

All that the money needed to do was shift 5% of the voters in favor of Walker. Elections are commonly that close. So the side with an overwhelmingly large cashbox will commonly win.

Despite all of the propaganda techniques used in advertising (bandwagon, testimonials, loaded words, etc.), I still believe that in most cases it comes down to brand recognition. Unless a product is unique, most people go for the nationally-recognized brands (Kellogg's cornflakes over Brand X)...even when the 'name brand' is more expensive...or sometimes BECAUSE it's more expensive (must be better, right?).

With local elections, I agree that all of the signs in yards, tv spots, etc. create an impression (more signs = more support = better candidate) or, at the very least, triggers the memory banks when in the voting booth ("Hey, at least I've heard of that one").

With all of the publicity generated by the recall, nobody needed 'name recognition'. There were televised debates, endless talking heads discussing positions for months, media blitzes, and every other sort of publicity imaginable. The only way $ could influence an election like this is if attack ads create negative impressions that aren't negated by like ads or if people didn't stop to ask what the whole thing was about in the first place. Good grief, the entire country knew what was going on in Wisconsin, what the issues were about, what color of underwear the candidates wore, & what Ed Schultz had for breakfast.

If advertising was as effective as the agencies make out, John Carter would be a megahit. And you & I could never choose a car to buy because they all are obviously the best in their class. Just ask the manufacturers.

However, I could be persuaded by your argument that at least 5% of the voters are morons who are influenced by whatever the says to do. Lots of people aren't that far removed from the Hatfields & McCoys.

creekdipper
06-13-12, 08:08 PM
There's also the possibility that, since liberals eat more cheese with their wine, they were bound up on election day & couldn't make it to the polls.

TheBigDave
06-15-12, 05:54 PM
Scott Walker: Wisconsin Honey Badger

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/k9d-HoyA4BE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

movielib
07-02-12, 01:01 AM
As Governor Walker said, Wisconsin gained, not lost jobs in 2011.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20120630/GPG1009/306300159/Feds-confirm-Wisconsin-added-jobs-2011

Feds confirm Wisconsin added jobs in 2011
12:34 AM, Jun 30, 2012 |
Written by
Clay Barbour
Wisconsin State Journal

The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics on Thursday confirmed Gov. Scott Walker’s assertion that Wisconsin did add jobs last year, though the modest growth leaves his critics unmoved.

According to the BLS, Wisconsin ended 2011 with 2,689,565 jobs, a 19,551 increase over the previous year. Those figures represent a difference of only 16 jobs from the job total submitted by the state in May.

The quarterly numbers, derived from employers’ state tax and unemployment insurance reports, are usually kept secret until the federal government signs off on them. Walker, however, broke with established protocol and released the figures early — less than two weeks before his recall election — in a move critics panned as overly political.

Walker made job creation a big issue in his 2010 election campaign — vowing to create 250,000 jobs by the end of 2014 — and again in his recall campaign. On Thursday, Walker said the numbers prove the state is moving in the right direction, despite a tumultuous year that he feels limited job growth.

“For us, one of the biggest issues was the uncertainty,” he said. “We had uncertainty with the health care plan, we certainly had uncertainty when it came to the recalls.”

But critics point out that Wisconsin continues to struggle with job growth. The BLS numbers show the state ranked 40th in job creation for 2011 and did better than only Washington and Alaska in the second half of the year.

“Now that all of the job measurements for last year are out, one thing is clear: Wisconsin is lagging behind most of the country in job creation,” said Senate Democratic Leader Mark Miller, D-Monona. “Gov. Walker can no longer hide behind an argument over which numbers are a better measure. They all say Wisconsin is in the bottom of the pack.”

The quarterly job census report the governor released in May conflicted with earlier, less accurate surveys that showed the state losing almost 34,000 jobs in 2011.

Walker said several businesses told him they were made nervous by the protests and recalls that erupted since last February when he introduced controversial legislation limiting the power of public employee unions. But Assembly Minority Leader Peter Barca, D-Kenosha, blamed the state’s poor performance on a failure by Walker and Republican leaders to focus more intensely on job creation.

“They focused on extreme, right-wing social issues and making it harder for workers to support their families,” he said. “And Republicans’ marquee jobs bills — venture capital and mining — both died because they failed to lead and refused to work with other interested parties.”
True, Wisconsin's job record was anything but a rousing success but as Walker said, uncertainty over the recalls may have been a major factor.

A point on the mining bill: it lost because all 16 Democratic senators (including the cowardly 14 who fled the state to prevent a vote on Act 10) were not going to give Walker a victory during the recall campaign. And they got the one RINO in the Senate to vote with them.

And the Democrats should certainly apologize for calling Walker a liar and saying he "made up" the numbers and they kept on insisting Wisconsin lost 33,000 jobs in 2011 throughout the campaign when they had to know it wasn't true.

movielib
09-14-12, 05:23 PM
:lol: A Dane County judge strikes again. Act 10 overturned.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/judge-throws-out-walkers-union-bargaining-law-3h6s8fp-169834626.html

Judge throws out Walker's union bargaining law
By Jason Stein of the Journal Sentinel
Sept. 14, 2012 5:02 p.m.

Madison - Gov. Scott Walker's law repealing most collective bargaining for local and school employees was struck down by a Dane County judge Friday, yet another dramatic twist in a more than year and a half saga that likely sets up another showdown in the Supreme Court.

The law remains largely in force for state workers, though a federal judge struck down part of that section of the law as well earlier this year. But for city, county, and school workers the decision by Dane County Judge Juan Colas returns the law to its status before Walker signed his law in March 2011.

The ruling means that, unless it is overturned on appeal, school districts and local officials will have to return to the bargaining table with their workers in a much more significant way. The decision raises a host of questions about changes in pay, benefits and work rules that have taken place in the meantime while bargaining was essentially dead.

"The decision essentially creates the (2011) status quo for municipal employees and school district employees because it declared that the essential provisions of Act 10 to be unconstitutional," said Lester Pines, an attorney for the Madison teachers and city of Milwaukee employees who are plaintiffs.

A spokeswoman for Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen said he would likely appeal the decision.

"We believe the law is constitutional. We are reviewing the decision but we're planning to appeal," Dana Brueck said.
Funny how every law passed by the Republican legislature that is taken to court gets overturned by Dane County judges. But then, if a Dane County judge upheld one of these laws, he or she would never be re-elected.

So here we go again. I have little doubt that this ruling will be reversed in the Wisconsin Supreme Court.

movielib
09-14-12, 05:35 PM
The twice elected governor reacts:

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/walker-we-are-confident-collective-bargaining-law-will

Walker: ‘We Are Confident’ Collective Bargaining Law Will Be Upheld On Appeal
Eric Kleefeld 6:25 PM EDT, Friday September 14, 2012

Gov. Scott Walker blasted a Dane County judge's ruling Friday, striking down Walker's 2011 law rolling back most collective bargaining for public employees.

"The people of Wisconsin clearly spoke on June 5th. Now, they are ready to move on," Walker said in a statement, referring to the recall election that Democrats launched against him, and which he ultimately won. "Sadly a liberal activist judge in Dane County wants to go backwards and take away the law making responsibilities of the legislature and the governor. We are confident that the state will ultimately prevail in the appeals process."

Previously in 2011, another Dane County judge had struck down the law on procedural grounds, relating to the committee process used to pass it. However, this was then reversed on appeal by a 4-3 vote of the state Supreme Court, which holds a narrow conservative majority.

movielib
09-14-12, 06:02 PM
Just a quick thought. The judge said Act 10 violates both the Wisconsin and US Constitutions.

Of course I haven't read the decision but as to the statute's central provision, collective bargaining for government employees:

If the law violates the state constitution, why did it take a law to establish collective bargaining in the first place? If so, shouldn't a legislative act be able to repeal the first law? Throughout Wisconsin history, as far as I know, not one word in the Wisconsin Constitution has ever been changed on this point. Ever.

As far as the US Constitution is concerned, if Act 10 violates the the US Constitution, why do federal workers not have collective bargaining "rights"?

kvrdave
09-14-12, 06:54 PM
That's pretty stupid. Will be interesting to see what the supreme court says.

K&AJones
09-15-12, 01:38 AM
Walker & Co. have turned that state around and got the fiscal situation back on track. He not only survived the recall but got more votes the second time around. But these clowns up there with that me, me, me attitude are determained to put the pain on the backs of the state's taxpayers who average wise are making far less than the union workers. And comes at the same time as that circus in Chicage is going on.

movielib
09-15-12, 06:21 AM
This article explains the ruling more clearly:

http://www.prwatch.org/news/2012/09/11758/wisconsin-judge-strikes-down-sections-walkers-act-10-unconstitutional

Relevant part of article:

Judge Colas found that the law offers certain privileges and advantages only to non-union members, and effectively makes those advantages conditional on employees not joining a union. Namely, Act 10 prohibits local governments from offering unions a base wage increase above the cost of living, or negotiating about other terms of employment -- limitations that do not apply to employees who are not represented by a union. Likewise, it prohibits automatic payroll deductions for union dues, but only because the dues go to a labor union.

Employees may retain the right to organize into unions, but "only if they give up their right to negotiate and receive wage increases greater than the cost of living," Judge Colas wrote. Those who don't join unions "are rewarded by being permitted to negotiate for and receive wage increases without limitation."

The law singles out unions "solely because of the purposes for which the organizations are formed and the employees choose to associate."

These restrictions violate employees' free speech and associational rights, he found. "It is undisputed that there is no constitutional right to collective bargaining," Judge Colas wrote, but once the government offers the right to associate and speak through forming a union, "it may not make the surrender or restriction of a constitutional right a condition of that privilege."

Judge Colas also found that Act 10 also creates two classes of employees -- those who are represented by a union and those who are not -- and treats them differently, in violation of the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment. The judge rejected challenges to Act 10 based on procedural questions, the City of Milwaukee's "home rule" authority, and due process and contract claims.
So it seems that if one chooses not to belong to the union, he or she can still negotiate for increased wages above the cost of living but not if one joins the union. That is "unequal treatment" or something. The judge does concede there is no constitutional right to collective bargaining.

I, for one, didn't even know the law said that. I had never heard it discussed. Assuming it does, and if this reasoning is upheld (which I do not think is unreasonable if it indeed violates equal protection), then it seems to be an easy fix. Do not allow an individual who is not in the union the power to do anything the union members cannot do. Either the court throws out only the part that allows nonunion members privileges not allowed union members or amend the law to do that. It seems the judge could have done that but instead he threw out the baby with the bathwater because he didn't like the baby (or was afraid he'd be thrown out at the next election for doing the sensible thing).

I trust the state Supreme Court, whose elections are for the whole state and not just Dane County, will do just that.

Edit:

Furthermore, it seems ludicrous to expect that anyone will get a big raise (or other preferable unequal treatment) just because that person did not join the union. Can you see a school board saying: "Nonunionmember, you are asking for a 15% wage increase when the union members are getting a 2% increase based on the cost of living. OK, here you go." So effectively, even if the nonmembers have the "right," they are not going to get anything unionmmembers don't get. Legally, just clean up the language.

kvrdave
09-15-12, 11:06 AM
Yeah, I don't understand how that wasn't simply struck down and the rest allowed to stand. It certainly doesn't appear to be some part of the law, that without it, the entire thing would crumble.

movielib
09-15-12, 04:19 PM
Yeah, I don't understand how that wasn't simply struck down and the rest allowed to stand. It certainly doesn't appear to be some part of the law, that without it, the entire thing would crumble.
Forget it Jake. It's <s>Chinatown</s> Madison.

movielib
09-22-12, 10:43 AM
Dane County Board rushes to extend pre-Act 10 agreement another year.

http://wisconsinreporter.com/commentary-wheres-the-indignation-now

COMMENTARY: Where’s the indignation now?
September 20th, 2012
By M.D. Kittle Wisconsin Reporter

Do you remember all of that righteous — many would call it self-righteous — indignation by the buddies of public unions after Republicans pushed through Act 10 last year?

State Rep. Peter Barca, D-Kenosha, quickly filed a complaint with the Dane County District Attorney’s office bemoaning what he deemed the Republican majority’s fast and unlawful passage of the controversial bill that effectively gutted collective bargaining for public employees in the state.

M.D. Kittle

Barca’s beef was that the legislative conference committee where Republicans alone passed the bill was a violation of the state’s Open Meetings Law. Of course, the Democrats in the Senate, the Fleeing 14, had effectively checked out of the legislative process by that time.

A Dane County judge agreed, killing the legislation until a divided state Supreme Court brought Act 10 back to life.

A long lineup of Dane County liberals filed their own complaints — then-Madison Mayor Dave Cieslewicz, Kathleen Falk, acting Dane County executive at the time, and District Attorney Ismael R. Ozanne.

“What Senate Republicans did last night in a rushed and illegal manner radically changes what county government can do,” Falk said in a statement following the Senate vote that approved Act 10.

“In my 35 years of working with the state Legislature, I’ve never seen such a blatant abuse of power and process as what took place in our Capitol Wednesday evening,” she said at the time.

Kathleen, you’ll have to excuse thousands of Dane County taxpayers for tasting the salt of irony in the Dane County’s lightning-fast move to extend collective bargaining agreements with its employee unions just hours after a judge overturned major portions of the law.

In a process Dane County Board member Dave Wiganowsky described as “flying faster than the Concord,” 22 board members signed a petition asking Dane County Executive Joe Parisi and the board’s Personnel and Finance Committee to “begin as soon as possible to bargain in good faith with our various bargaining units.”

They weren’t kidding. The petition is dated Sept. 19 — Wednesday. A little more than 24 hours later the committee was set to vote on a resolution supporting a one-year contract, through 2015, effectively extending pre-Act 10 agreements signed off on before the collective-bargaining reform law went into effect. The full board is expected to vote on the measure, which appears to have plenty of support, an hour after the committee meeting. [Note: the "progressive" dominated Board passed the measure 29-8.]

The board is scurrying like rats before a flashlight, trying to strike a deal before the clock strikes midnight on Dane County Judge Juan Colas’ ruling killing key portions of Act 10.

County Board Chairman Scott McDonell and Sharon Corrigan, chairwoman of the Personnel and Finance Committee, admitted as much in a memo — sans the rat analogy.

“The reason the 2015 collective bargaining agreement is before you in such short notice is that it is unclear whether we will still have the right to bargain with our unions two weeks or a month from now,” they wrote to fellow supervisors.

Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen has appealed the judge’s decision to the Court of Appeals, and has asked Colas to stay his ruling until a higher court settles the matter. Colas said he will offer a written response.

It’s no surprise that the collective-bargaining capital of Wisconsin, located in the county with the state’s heaviest tax burden, would move, Wiganowsky contends stealthily, to cut a quick deal with unions. Wiganowsky believes its political payback to a liberal, union-loving board of supervisors, many of whom owe their positions to organized labor.

The county has been clear about where its allegiances lie.

In April, voters overwhelmingly supported this leading-the-witness referendum question: “Should all Wisconsin workers have the right to seek safe working conditions and fair pay through collective bargaining?”

McDonell and Corrigan said they believe the board should “lead by example.”

Leading by example, it seems to me, isn’t talking out of both sides of your mouth.

If these indignant public servants believe Gov. Scott Walker and the Republican Legislature acted in such a rash and hasty manner in “illegally” pushing through Act 10, why is it the board moving so hastily to ram through a contract extension that Wiganowsky said could cost taxpayers at least $2 million?

It’s not clear how much as of this posting. The resolution does not contain a fiscal note. The county executive’s office said that may be because the tentative offer isn’t a done deal just yet. If a tentative deal is done, that likely means county officials have been meeting with union leaders since very shortly after the judge’s decision. Maybe before, Wiganowsky said.

Wiganowsky, who is opposed to the resolution and the speed of deliberations, said he had to call the county office to find out about the resolution. He contends opposition voices aren’t really welcome at the table.

“It sure smells like Chicago politics,” the supervisor said.

I tried to talk to the board chairman about all of that. He didn’t return my call.

Dane County certainly has the best interest of public employees in mind — public employees who, by the way, did give up about $2 million in their contracts to help the county out.

But what about the interests of the average taxpayer in a county with the highest property taxes in the state? Property taxes in Dane County have soared 32.8 percent over the past decade, according to a report from the nonpartisan Wisconsin Taxpayers Alliance.

Typically speaking, collective bargaining doesn’t cost taxpayers less. And, it would appear, Dane County’s public employee unions are looking for a return on their $2 million giveback.

Will a new deal with the unions add to Dane County’s approximately $240 million debt, which has more than tripled in the past 10 years?

Or will something have to go to cover increased employee compensation?

Wiganowsky asks the same questions.

“How are we going to justify this money? We will bury money in the capital budget this year to justify this,” he said. That means a road left unrepaired or a new park shelved, perhaps.

Or maybe something else.

“We are going to have to cut a human-service programs. We’ll have to take something away from people who need it,” the supervisor said, noting the budget holds the line on funding for service providers in programs that assist children, the elderly and others.

Where’s the righteous indignation now?
Hypocrisy aside (and I'm not sure the analogy is that good but it's beside the point), this is just the same type of collusion between "progressive" politicians and unions that even FDR warned against. Dane County rushed to get an agreement in before Act 10 went into effect and now rushes to extend it during this probable temporary interim. Screw the taxpayers, full steam ahead for the unions.

I think Dane County is the only one of our 72 counties that will stoop this low. At least I hope so.

movielib
09-30-12, 11:17 PM
Editorial in the Wisconsin State Journal (Madison) a few days ago:

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/opinion/editorial/a-triple-play-on-local-taxpayers/article_5fc0d066-082b-11e2-b076-0019bb2963f4.html

A triple play on local taxpayers
September 27, 2012 5:00 am • Wisconsin State Journal editorial

If taxpayers across Dane County, the city of Madison and the Madison School District were found in a corner last week muttering, "Hey, what about us?" that would be understandable.

Last week was a veritable triple play of leaving taxpayers' interests at the door, orchestrated by all of the "big three" local government entities.

That's a shame, but not a shock.

After all, collective bargaining in Madison is something of a misnomer because union leaders and elected officials so often sit on the same side of the table when writing labor contracts.

That's not true elsewhere, especially in the private sector. Look at the hard yet fair negotiations NFL owners and the referees union have conducted, for example. They have clearly been sitting on opposite sides of the bargaining table, yet they have committed to working through difficult issues.

In contrast, local unions and elected officials here in Madison seem to be rushing arm in arm to the same side of the table to extend contracts.

Local elected and union officials have seized on a legal opening created recently by Dane County Circuit Judge Juan Colas, who ruled that key parts of Act 10 — the signature legislation passed by Gov. Scott Walker and the Republicans in early 2011 — are unconstitutional.

Walker and Co. have appealed the decision, just as they have other challenges to their controversial restrictions on most public sector unions.

This is the second time local officials in Madison have jumped at the chance to extend existing contracts for their workers. They previously did so just before the Act 10 restrictions on unions went into effect.

In both cases, elected officials will tout "savings" resulting from the contract extensions. But what's really happening is local officials are locking into place for a longer period of time more favorable deals for public workers. Local officials will have fewer options for protecting taxpayers and basic public services if their budgets grow markedly worse.

That's apparently the way most voters in low-turnout local elections want it, because they keep electing public officials who slide around to the union's side of the table.

Taxpayers deserve more balance in local contract negotiations.
And editorial cartoon today:

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/host.madison.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/0e/30e00440-0792-11e2-8e2e-0019bb2963f4/5065b90ab46eb.preview-620.jpg

At least Madison's only remaining print newspaper is not a complete tool of our lovely "progressives."

movielib
11-07-12, 06:57 AM
Tiny side story on the election.

Remember that the Democrats took a total of three seats away from the Republicans in recalls for the state Senate. The Senate went from 19-14 GOP to 17-16 Dem. Two Republicans then left their seats. The Republicans got back both those seats and took two more from the Democrats. The Democrats had a grand total of zero days in session with their majority. When the legislature goes back in session in January, the Senate will be 18-15 GOP. That may very well have been the Senate makeup if there had been no recalls. The Republicans have retained their big majority in the Assembly which may end up shifting by one or two one way or the other.

So as far as the state government we are in almost the exact same position we were in after the 2010 election.

movielib
01-18-13, 05:31 PM
Federal court upholds Act 10 in its entirety.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/federal-court-of-appeals-upholds-walkers-act-10-union-law-ur8eg0e-187488851.html

Federal court of appeals upholds Walker's Act 10 union law
Gov. Scott Walker signed the amended Budget Repair Bill at the Capitol in March 2011.
Gary Porter
January 18, 2013
Updated: 3:38 p.m.

Madison - A federal court of appeals on Friday upheld Wisconsin's law repealing most collective bargaining for most public employees, handing a victory to Gov. Scott Walker and his fellow Republicans who put the law in place amid tumult two years ago.

Parts of the collective bargaining law, known as Act 10, remain on hold because of a state judge's ruling in a separate case, but Friday's decision was a setback for public employees and their unions.

Last year, U.S. District Judge William M. Conley largely upheld the legislation but struck down parts of Act 10 dealing with prohibitions on government employers withholding union dues from workers' paychecks as well as a section requiring labor unions to vote to recertify yearly. The U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals in Chicago reversed that lower court's ruling in a split decision Friday that upheld the law in its entirety.

"Today's court ruling is a victory for Wisconsin taxpayers," Walker said in a statement. "The provisions contained in Act 10, which have been upheld in federal court, were vital in balancing Wisconsin's $3.6 billion budget deficit without increasing taxes, without massive public employee layoffs, and without cuts to programs like Medicaid."

The lawsuit was brought by the Wisconsin Education Association Council, the Wisconsin State Employees Union and other unions. WEAC President Mary Bell expressed disappointment with the decision.

"What is so abundantly clear is that Act 10 was never about addressing the fiscal needs of the state but instead a ploy to eliminate workers' rights to have a voice through their union - political payback for citizens who didn't endorse the governor," Bell said in a statement. "This marks a setback, but the fact of the matter is that our members will not give up on their commitment to restoring their rights to negotiate for fair wages and safe working conditions."

Soon after coming into office in January 2011, Walker offered legislation to require state and local workers to pay more for health care and pensions and all but ending collective bargaining for many of them. The legislation sparked the largest protests at the Capitol in a generation and prompted Senate Democrats to flee the state for three weeks in an unsuccessful bid to block the law.

Among the provisions was a ban on allowing the state or local governments from deducting union dues from employees' paychecks. Another element of the bill required unions to hold annual recertification votes to remain intact, and to succeed they had to get the approval of 51% of all eligible employees, not just a majority of those voting.

The law spared state troopers, firefighters and most police officers from many of the changes. Democrats called that political payback for groups that supported Walker in the 2010 governor's race.

The unions sued in federal court in Madison, arguing the law violated the free-speech and equal-protection clauses of the U.S. Constitution. Conley upheld much of Act 10 but invalidated the provisions on recertification and dues deduction.

Both sides appealed the decision, and on Friday the court said the entire law was constitutional.

"Act 10 places no limitations on the speech of general employee unions, which may continue speaking on any topic or subject-. . . Act 10 simply subsidizes the speech of one group, while refraining from doing so for another," the decision said.

The majority opinion noted the political ramifications of the law, pointing out that just five public-sector unions endorsed Walker when he ran for governor in 2010 - those representing state troopers, deputy sheriffs around the state, Milwaukee police officers, Milwaukee firefighters and West Allis police officers. Members of those unions were spared most of the provisions of Act 10, while other public workers were not, including some in law enforcement, such as the Capitol Police and officers on University of Wisconsin campuses.

The court also included in its decision comments by Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau), who said just before the law passed, "If we win this battle, and the money is not there under the auspices of the unions, certainly what you're going to find is President Obama is going to have a . . . much more difficult time getting elected and winning the state of Wisconsin."

The court responded: "While Senator Fitzgerald's statement may not reflect the highest of intentions, his sentiments do not invalidate an otherwise constitutional, viewpoint neutral law."

The court also said it would not second guess which unions the Legislature decided to exclude from their limits on collective bargaining. Lawmakers said they left public safety workers largely alone because if they went on strike it would endanger the public. Among the public safety workers who were excluded from the measure were motor vehicle inspectors, who belong to the same union as state troopers.

"We cannot, as the unions request, determine precisely which occupations would jeopardize public safety with a strike," the court wrote. "Even if we accept that Wisconsin imprudently characterized motor vehicle inspectors as public safety employees or the Capitol Police as general employees, invalidating the legislation on that group would elevate the judiciary to the impermissible role of supra-legislature."

Voting to uphold the law in its entirety were Judges Joel M. Flaum and William J. Bauer. Flaum wrote the opinion.

Judge David F. Hamilton dissented in part, saying he believed part of the collective bargaining law violated the First Amendment. Hamilton argued the state could not bar some unions from having their dues deducted from paychecks while it allowed police and fire unions to do so. Hamilton concurred with the rest of the decision.

In his partial dissent, Hamilton wrote that the reasons given by the state for treating some police and firefighters differently from other public employees "seem flimsy to me," but were enough to satisfy the relatively low legal threshold needed to uphold most parts of the law.

Hamilton argued, however, that the state's justifications needed to meet a high threshold for the parts of the law that banned government employers from collecting dues for most unions. That's because this section of the law raised First Amendment concerns about discriminating against groups for their political positions and views, Hamilton said.

"Perhaps a strike by motor vehicle inspectors might threaten the breakdown of public order and state government, but it's hard to see how," Hamilton wrote. "It's especially hard to see how the threat of a strike by motor vehicle inspectors could reasonably be deemed more significant than a strike by, say, correctional officers . . . "

Despite Friday's victory, the future of the law remains uncertain.

A judge in Dane County in September struck down parts of the union law and that case is not affected by the federal ruling Friday. That case is now before the Wisconsin Court of Appeals.

There is a dispute over whether the Dane County decision applies to the entire state, or just in certain areas. That is one of many issues the state appeals court must decide.

But on Friday, attention from all sides was on the federal appeals court's decision.

"For nearly two years, those opposing Act 10 have tried every angle to have it struck down and invalidated," state Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen said in a statement. "Today's decision by the Seventh Circuit confirms what I have stated from the beginning. Act 10 is constitutional. While there are no guarantees, it is my hope that this decision will pave the way for resolving any remaining challenges in a manner that supports the legislative decisions made by our elected officials."

Assembly Minority Leader Peter Barca (D-Kenosha) said lawmakers should move in a new direction after the divisions over Act 10, which prompted massive protests for a month and prompted Senate Democrats to flee the state in an unsuccessful attempt to block the measure.

"We must find real solutions the Wisconsin way of sitting down together and rolling up our sleeves to tackle problems with all stakeholders to repair some of the damage that has been done by this law," Barca said in a statement. "We are not a state that should have laws in place to settle partisan vendettas."
I thought singling out exceptions for some police and fire fighters was the most vulnerable part of the law and I was (and still am) uncomfortable with it. I kind of agree with the dissenting judge who found the distinction "flimsy." I think all the public unions should have been included.

Nevertheless, with the weakest part being upheld, I don't see much future for an appeal to the Supreme Court. I don't think the SC will take the case if it's appealed (which it will be).

Of course, there's still the state lawsuit which, as with all Republican backed bills, has been partially shot down by a Dane County judge (no Dane County judge could uphold the law and ever win another election of any kind in Dane County).

The suit will eventually get to the Wisconsin Supreme Court and I'm pretty sure they will uphold the law. If it doesn't violate the Federal Constitution I don't think the WSC will say it violates the Wisconsin Constitution. At least most of them. The one chance to defeat the law would be to defeat Justice Patience Roggensack when she runs for re-election in the spring. I think that's a real long shot. She is highly respected and is probably the most moderate of all the conservatives. And, as far as I know, she has none of the vulnerabilities that almost brought down David Prosser.

kvrdave
01-18-13, 06:10 PM
<img src=http://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/The+king+has+returned.+it+s+about+damn+time+_b7394639c06191d618147f9616c8e539.jpg>

"What is so abundantly clear is that Act 10 was never about addressing the fiscal needs of the state but instead a ploy to eliminate workers' rights to have a voice through their union - political payback for citizens who didn't endorse the governor," Bell said in a statement.
As opposed to the payback the unions get when their candidate is elected. :lol:

movielib
01-18-13, 06:23 PM
<img src=http://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/The+king+has+returned.+it+s+about+damn+time+_b7394639c06191d618147f9616c8e539.jpg>


As opposed to the payback the unions get when their candidate is elected. :lol:
Of course the difference is that Act 10 actually has improved the fiscal health of the state.

movielib
03-01-13, 10:37 AM
The John Doe investigation is over. Evil Scott "Free" Walker gets away with his misdeeds.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/report-scott-walker-probe-closed-with-no-new-charges-qh8vsfb-194194091.html

John Doe probe of Scott Walker office closed with no new charges
By Sharif Durhams and Daniel Bice of the Journal Sentinel
Updated: 10:10 a.m.

The nearly three-year-old John Doe investigation into aides and associates of Gov. Scott Walker is closed, the judge who is overseeing that probe said Friday.

Neal Nettesheim, a retired state appeals court judge, said he entered an order Feb. 21 concluding the probe. The decision was made public after Milwaukee County District Attorney John Chisholm concluded paperwork in the case.

No new charges will come from the John Doe investigation, Nettesheim said.

Chisholm confirmed the end of the investigation in a statement. "After a review of the John Doe evidence, I am satisfied that all charges that are supported by proof beyond a reasonable doubt have now been brought and concluded. As a consequence, last week my office petitioned for, and Judge Nettesheim has granted, the closure of the John Doe investigation."

Milwaukee prosecutors launched a secret John Doe investigation into aides and associates of Walker nearly three years ago. Walker's chief of staff contacted prosecutors over suspicions that more than the $11,000 was missing from Operation Freedom, a fund used to pay for an annual event to honor veterans and their families.

The investigation later was broadened into other areas, including another embezzlement case involving Operation Freedom money and two county employees in Walker's office doing campaign work while at their taxpayer-paid county jobs.

Longtime Walker aide Timothy D. Russell pleaded guilty Nov. 29 to stealing more than $21,000 in Operation Freedom money. He was sentenced to two years in prison in January. Kelly Rindfleisch, who worked for Walker in the county executive's office in 2010, was sentenced Nov. 19 to six months in jail for campaign fundraising at the courthouse using a secret email system installed there.

Darlene Wink, Walker's constituent services coordinator at the county, pleaded guilty to two misdemeanors for doing campaign work while on the county clock.

Nettesheim noted that no new testimony had been taken in the investigation in months. The case had been kept open as a way to release documents tied to the criminal charges that already had been filed.

"All the criminal cases have been concluded. That cleared the way" for the order, Nettesheim said.

In all, the John Doe investigation led to charges against six individuals, including three Walker aides, a Walker appointee and a major Walker contributor.

"I am glad the process has been completed," Walker said in a statement. "As many may remember, this entire matter began when we asked the District Attorney to look into concerns we had with respect to Operation Freedom. We appreciate the effort that was undertaken and to bring appropriate matters to justice."

Democratic Party officials were still critical of the Republican governor, even though he was not charged in the probe.

"That Scott Walker avoided prosecution is no feather in his cap," Democratic Party spokesman Graeme Zielinski said. "He clearly was connected to criminal activity and he spent a half million dollars, through his unprecedented criminal defense fund, to waylay charges. The crimes convicted flow directly from Scott Walker's belief that he is above the law."
Democratic state chair Mike Tate had famously said: "Scott Walker will see the inside of a jail cell before he sees the inside of another term!"

Tate and Zielinski are the two top leaders of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin. Wisconsin Democrats are so lucky to have such classy guys.

movielib
03-01-13, 10:56 AM
Do you think you're being clever?

But if you want to talk about corrupt politics, what's the over-under on Governor Walker being indicted before the ink is dry on the certification of his recount victory?
I thought this was worth bringing back.

Walker in '14!

JasonF
03-01-13, 11:20 AM
I thought this was worth bringing back.

Walker in '14!

Should have taken the over!

movielib
03-01-13, 11:23 AM
Should have taken the over!
:lol::up:

JasonF
03-01-13, 11:26 AM
Obama is not going to be fighting for Wisconsin.

I'm going to remember this post. :)

As long as we're bumping old posts. :)

And that was even before Romney picked a Wisconsinite as his running mate!

(Completely off-topic, but I remember a big deal being made in 2000 about Gore not carrying his home state of Tennessee. Is 2012 the first time a ticket has not carried either candidate's home state?)

movielib
03-05-13, 06:48 AM
Graeme Zielinski finally proves to be too much even for Wisconsin Democratic Party. Well, at least they're shutting him up.

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquarter/democrats-bump-spokesman-for-dahmerwalker-comparison-c2916o6-195175391.html

Democrats bump spokesman for Jeffrey Dahmer-Scott Walker comparison
Zielinski demoted but still on party payroll
Daniel Bice
March 4, 2013

Democratic Party staffer Graeme Zielinski was removed as the party spokesman following his Twitter outburst in which he drew comparisons and contrasts between Republican Gov. Scott Walker and serial killer and cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer, sources said Monday.

Party leaders also docked Zielinski a week's pay - which works out to a little more than $1,000 - for his tweets after Milwaukee prosecutors announced that they were shutting down a secret criminal investigation of Walker's aides.

Late Friday, Zielinski removed the offensive tweets and apologized both to the families of Dahmer's victims and to the first-term Republican governor.

Among other things, Zielinski had written:

"@GovWalker had better lawyers than Jeffrey Dahmer in beating the rap. Clear that he committed crimes."

One source close to the party said Zielinski will stay on with the state Democratic Party as a "media adviser." He will, however, no longer be permitted to post on Twitter, where he has been prolific in recent years.

"He agreed," said one source. "He's aware of the mistakes he's made."

Zielinski wasn't alone.

State Democratic Party Chairman Mike Tate had called Zielinski's tweets "inappropriate, overzealous and insensitive."

Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, one of the top Democrats in the state, said last week that Zielinski's posts were "over the top and very inappropriate."

The source close to the Democratic Party declined to say why officials decided to keep Zielinski on the party payroll.

Democrats did not immediately name a replacement for Zielinski, who will still pitch story ideas to reporters and give advice on media matters to party leaders. The communications job is currently listed as open, though staffer Melissa Baldauff will handle most media calls until the post is filled.

The source close to the party noted that Zielinski has made a handful of mistakes in recent years, including several on Twitter.

In May, he sent out a series of tweets suggesting Walker was using his criminal defense fund to help defend a man accused of child sexual enticement. A couple of months earlier, he posted a bogus tweet in which Republicans supposedly said women "should get paid less and not be able to make health care decisions."

"It's a culmination of stuff," said the source.

On Friday, Zielinski tweeted, "@GovWalker spent more than Jeffrey Dahmer to beat criminal charges."

Records show that Walker paid the law firms for his two defense attorneys nearly $200,000 over the past year and his campaign paid another $200,000 to Michael Best & Friedrich for "compliance" issues.

Zielinski also asked on Twitter: "What do @GovWalker and Jeffrey Dahmer have in common?"

He never answered the question.

Dahmer killed 17 men and boys, gaining international notoriety for saving and eating his victims' body parts. He received life sentences for 15 of the killings but was murdered in prison in November 1994.
I can't help adding that party chair Mike Tate has said many things nearly as outrageous as Zielinski, some of which I have quoted in the course of these threads. When I would hear an outrageous quote about Walker from the Wisconsin Democratic Party it seemed those from Tate and Zielinski were interchangeable. I guess it takes a Dahmer analogy to go over the line.

kvrdave
03-05-13, 08:05 AM
Likely he said outrageous things for the attention it drew, but as Walker was doing well, they had to be more and more outrageous just to get someone to listen. People finally did, but not because of Walker.

movielib
06-15-13, 10:33 AM
The Wisconsin Supreme Court (finally) agrees to take up the Act 10 case. Our attorney general has asked them numerous times to bypass the court of appeals because it will end up there anyway. Even the appeals court had agreed.

http://watchdog.org/90586/wi-supreme-court-will-decide-act-10-ruling-could-put-an-end-to-our-long-nightmare/

WI Supreme Court will decide Act 10; ruling could ‘put an end to our long nightmare’

By M.D. Kittle / June 14, 2013

http://watchdog.org/90586/wi-supreme-court-will-decide-act-10-ruling-could-put-an-end-to-our-long-nightmare/

By M.D. Kittle | Wisconsin Reporter

MADISON – After two long years of legal limbo, the Wisconsin Supreme Court has agreed to take up the constitutionality of the state’s controversial Act 10, the law led by Gov. Scott Walker that gutted collective bargaining for most Badger State public employees.

One constitutional expert who has urged the court to settle the confusion surrounding the case, said a definitive ruling would “put an end to our long nightmare.”

The case of Madison Teachers Inc. v. Scott Walker is one of four high profile cases the high court has decided to review.

In its certification to the Supreme Court, the state District IV Court of Appeals wrote of the necessity of the high court’s ruling because of the “sweeping statewide effect on public employers, public employees, and taxpayers and because the need to clarify and develop law relating to associational rights and the home-rule authority of municipalities.”

A decision by the Supreme Court is expected to “clarify the effect of Act 10 and provide guidance to public employers and employees on how to approach collective bargaining,” according to a statement from the high court. “A decision also may help settle other pending cases spawned from Act 10 ad possibly reduce future litigation on some issues.”

Act 10 has been tied up in court challenges nearly since Walker signed the law that has come to define much of the governor’s first term in office.

The Republican-controlled Senate in March 2011 narrowly passed the bill, which ends collective bargaining over wages and demands most public employees (police and firefighters not included) to pay more for health insurance and contribute to their state retirement funds.

Act 10 was first challenged in Dane County Circuit Court a couple months later, when Judge Maryann Sumi overturned the law because she believes GOP lawmakers violated the state’s open meeting law in passing it.

The state Supreme Court stepped in in June 2011 and ruled on a 4-3 decision that lawmakers had not broken law in making the law.

In August 2011, Madison Teachers Inc., the union representing Madison public school teachers, filed the lawsuit against Walker, asserting Act 10 is a violation of teachers’ rights to Equal Protection, among other constitutional issues.

A month later Dane County Circuit Judge Juan Colas struck down most of the provisions of Act 10, as they related to municipal and county employees and teachers.

Colas then denied the state’s motion to stay the decision.

Along the way, the legal waters have been made murky by subsequent lawsuits and court decisions, including the U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals’ ruling earlier this year that upheld Act 10 in its entirety.

“Act 10 exhibits a rational belief that public sector unions are too costly for the state. The recertification process furthers this interest by imposing a recertification burden that impacts unions’ influence over employees who are less passionate about union representation,” the Chicago-based appeals court wrote.

Democrats, not surprisingly, stood with the court’s dissenting opinion that Act 10 may have been politically motivated and inherently unfair in its requirement to end automatic union dues for most public union employees, but not for all.

The state contends Act 10 is a proper exercise of authority because it affects only statutory rights, not constitutionally protected rights. According to the state officials, Act 10 does not “impose a single restriction on [public employees’rights] to speak, assemble or petition their government.”

Rick Esenberg, constitutional law expert and president of the Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty, a conservative advocate, said the court will provide a remedy for the confusion surrounding the law. Esenberg’s organization was among many filing amicus briefs urging the high court to settle the matter.

“There are local governments going around claiming Act 10 does not have to be complied with, although most local governments have resisted that temptation,” he said. The Institute for Law and Liberty is suing the Milwaukee Area Technical College, charging MATC illegally negotiated a labor agreement with an employee union.

“I think it’s a good thing the court is going to take the case up and finally put an end to our long nightmare,” Esenberg said.

John Matthews, executive director of Madison Teachers Inc., in an email to Wisconsin Reporter said the case is a matter of great importance to the “socially conscious people of Wisconsin, which was the first state to recognize the importance of public employees having a voice in the workplace.”

“What the Governor failed to recognize when, as he describes it, he dropped the bomb on public employees with Act 10, is that a collective bargaining agreement is no more than what the employer and it’s (Sic) employees think is best for both of them,” Matthews added. “Act 10 stripped most public employees of that needed voice in the workplace, and in doing so treats some public employees differently than others. That inequality violates the Constitution.”

Lester Pines, an attorney for the plaintiffs, told the Associated Press he wasn’t surprised the Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case.

“It raises significant constitutional issues that should be resolved in that court,” Pines told AP.

State Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen, charged with defending Act 10, in a statement expressed certainty in the constitutionality of the law.

“I look forward to the court’s prompt resolution of this litigation so that we can move forward,” he said.

But when will the Supreme Court rule?

That wasn’t clear Friday evening. There is nothing in the court’s filing noting a time frame for a decision.

Matthews said the court has provided the state 30 days to file a brief, and MTI 20 days after the state to issue its reply.

“After the matter being fully briefed by both the State and MTI in Circuit Court (before Judge Colas) and with the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals, I can’t imagine there is much more to say,” Matthews said.

In any event, Matthews said the case will not be heard in the Supreme Court’s current session, which ends June 28. The fall session begins in September, so the matter likely will not be heard until September or October, and a decision rendered a few months after that, he speculated.

Esenberg said he’d like to see a ruling right away, but he expected briefings over the summer with arguments likely in the fall. A ruling, he said, may not come down until this time next year. With a deeply politically divided court, split in a 4-3 conservative majority, a decision could take some time to arrive, Esenberg said.
I think it's a good bet that the Court upholds the law on its 4-3 conservative majority.

And if it takes a year that would mark almost 3.5 years since the whole thing began. Scott Walker will be 5 months away from the election for his second term. Yikes.

There is still the federal case in which a US appeals court upheld the law in its entirety in January. I still expect an appeal but I don't think the US Supreme Court will agree to hear it.

kvrdave
06-15-13, 12:28 PM
Nice update. Thanks.

movielib
09-13-13, 11:27 AM
Act 10 wins again:

http://watchdog.org/105360/act-10-upheld-court-quashes-notion-of-unfettered-right-to-collectively-bargain/

Act 10 upheld; court quashes notion of ‘unfettered right’ to collectively bargain

By M.D. Kittle
September 12, 2013

MADISON – Another court, another constitutional win for Wisconsin’s controversial collective bargaining reform law.

The U.S. District Court for the Western District of Wisconsin on Wednesday dismissed claims brought by public employee unions, upholding the constitutionality of Act 10.

The decision, issued by Judge William M. Conley, takes aim at the plaintiffs’ contention that provisions of Act 10, particularly the law’s requirement that public unions annually obtain a majority to recertify, are unconstitutional.

“The implicit assumption in this argument — that the First Amendment gives employees an unfettered right to bargain collectively — is, at best, questionable,” the ruling states.

“Even now, over 22 states have continued to prohibit collective bargaining under rights reserved to them by the 1947 Taft Hartley Act without running afoul of the First Amendment.”

Public employees “surely can associate and speak freely and petition openly,” in accordance with the 1979 case, Smith v. Arkansas State Highways Employees, and those rights are protected by the First Amendment “from retaliation from doing so.”

There is, however, a differentiating characteristic that may bode well for the state as it moves to settle the constitutional controversy over Act 10 once and for all in the state Supreme Court.

“(T)his does not mean public employees have a First Amendment right to associate for the purpose of bargaining collectively unless granted that right by a state.”

The state, since 2011, does not grant that right – at least to most public employees in Wisconsin.

Act 10, led by Gov. Scott Walker and the Republican majority in the Legislature, limits collective bargaining to wage, up to the rate of inflation, requires annual recertification votes and prohibits automatic union dues deductions from the pay of represented employees, among other provisions.

The plaintiffs in this case argued that the provisions “substantially impair the ability of public sector labor organizations to maintain themselves and to express the collective viewpoint of their members and otherwise engage in activities that are of mutual interest to those employees who want to associate with each other for such purposes; and they impose a burden on and significantly interfere with the ability of individuals.”

The court, following the guidance of a federal appeals court, said, not exactly.

Besides, even if such collective bargaining rights existed under the constitution, that doesn’t mean an employer is forced to listen to said free speech.

The U.S. Supreme Court said as much in the Arkansas State Highway Employees case.

“(T)he First Amendment does not impose an affirmative obligation on the government to listen, to respond or, in this context, to recognize the association and bargain with it,” the Act 10 ruling notes.

Conley earlier sided with the Wisconsin Education Association Counsel in its claims against Act 10, ruling the annual recertification requirement violated the Equal Protection Clause and that the law’s prohibition on automatic union dues withholding violated the First Amendment. And the court enjoined the state from enforcing the provisions.

But the Seventh Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals reversed the decision, finding that all the challenged provisions stand the constitutional challenges. Conley, following the appeals court, now finds the same.

The labor unions also lost on the claim that Act 10’s allowance of bargaining rights to public safety employees is a violation of general public employee rights under Equal Protection.

Conley, who had issues earlier with this apparent problem of unequal treatment, said the court is now “satisfied that differential treatment of represented employees as compared to unrepresented employees with respect to bargaining over wages and conditions of employment passes rational basis review.”

The court finds there is a legitimate governmental purpose for the disparity. That purpose, in part, as the state argued, was to give “local governments the tools necessary to manage impending revenue reductions.”

Local governments have been able to offset significant cuts to state aid through Act 10, particularly the wage provision and the requirements that public employees pay more for their health insurance and state pensions.

Tom Evenson, Walker spokesman, called the ruling a “significant victory for Wisconsin taxpayers.”

“Act 10 is a constitutional law enacted by the people’s representatives and upheld in every case where we’ve had a final decision. This victory reaffirms our position,” he said in an email to Wisconsin Reporter. He notes that of the eight challenges thus far, six have been decided in favor of the state – or taxpayers, as Evenson puts it, and two remain outstanding.

The matter will be in the hands of the state Supreme Court, which is working through the case this session.

Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen says the latest ruling bodes well for the state as it makes its case to a narrowly divided high court, with a slight conservative advantage.

“I appreciate decisions like this that follow the law, and I look forward to bringing the remaining state court challenges before the Wisconsin Supreme Court, where we expect Act 10 to be upheld once again,” Van Hollen said.
The only significant judicial roadblocks to the law, state or federal, have come from Dane County judges who know they would never be re-elected if they ruled in favor of Act 10. Better to be overruled by the Wisconsin Supreme Court where the case now lies than to lose one's job.

rw2516
09-13-13, 02:44 PM
I don't get the justification about equal protection. It's ok for the state to treat union employees different from non-union employees even though the state is the one who determines who is union and who isn't.
Sounds like you can treat one group of people differently than another group just by making it illegal to belong to that group.

kvrdave
09-13-13, 03:20 PM
I love this entire thing. :lol:

movielib
09-13-13, 06:55 PM
I don't get the justification about equal protection. It's ok for the state to treat union employees different from non-union employees even though the state is the one who determines who is union and who isn't.
Sounds like you can treat one group of people differently than another group just by making it illegal to belong to that group.
The state does not determine who belongs to a union and who doesn't. The unions can still exist but have to recertify periodically; and they can't require mandatory membership (it's a little more complicated because they never could but nonmembers still had to pay the union "fair share"). Public safety unions (police, fire, prison guards) are exempt from the law and the federal courts have upheld the constitutionality of that distinction.

movielib
09-22-13, 09:55 AM
Education - Madison style:

http://watchdog.org/106723/madison-elementary-art-teacher-posts-her-students-anti-walker-cartoons/

Madison elementary art teacher posts students’ anti-Walker cartoons
By Ryan Ekvall | Wisconsin Reporter
September 20, 2013

http://watchdog.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2013/09/img_2571.jpg http://watchdog.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2013/09/img_2581.jpg

MADISON — Some kindergartners, first-graders and second-graders in Madison public schools are apparently preparing for futures in either political cartooning or time on a psychiatrist’s couch.

Kati Walsh, an elementary art teacher at the Madison Metropolitan School District in July posted some of her students’ drawings of Gov. Scott Walker in jail. Walsh suggests her young Rembrandts’ ideas for their sketches popped up out of thin air.

“One student said something to the effect of ‘Scott Walker wants to close all the public schools’… So the rest of the class started drawing their own cartoons and they turned very political. They have very strong feelings about Scott Walker,” the teacher wrote on her blog.

“The cartoons started getting a little inappropriate so at this point, we stopped drawing and discussed what a political cartoon was,” she wrote.

If the drawings weren’t appropriate, why did the art teacher publish them on her blog? It turns out these weren’t the inappropriate drawings.

“I did not publish the inappropriate cartoons that depicted any harm coming to Walker,” Walsh told Wisconsin Reporter in an email. “I made them throw them away and we talked about how when you disagree with someone, it’s OK to disagree with them respectfully.”

Walsh said she published the drawings because she thought it was “an amazing teaching moment.”

She said she initially thought the picture of what appeared to be orange engulfing Walker’s head represented the governor set on fire, but after talking to the student, the art teacher said she learned the orange was supposed to depict a prison jumpsuit.

Walsh said she talked with parents about the drawings and how the class of 5-, 6- and 7 year-olds came to draw political cartoons in the classroom that day. She says the parents were excited and supportive.

Walsh has been politically active since Wisconsin’s controversial public-sector collective bargaining reforms, known as Act 10, were unveiled in 2011, according to a Wisconsin State Journal article. She signed the recall petition in the 2012 campaign against Walker, gathered signatures for the recall and participated in the strikes at the state Capitol and in Chicago — a show of solidarity with the striking Chicago Teachers Union.

Walsh also spoke out against the failed Madison Preparatory Academy charter school proposal to close the educational achievement gap in Madison. That effort failed to pass the Madison school board in late 2011 after a teachers’ union campaign to kill it.

“Children are much smarter then you give them credit for,” she told Wisconsin Reporter. “These children who are now growing up having protested at the Capitol with their parents and are going to union meetings and political meetings with their parents. They are listening and they have their own strong opinions about what is going on in our state right now.”

The art teacher in her blog insists she didn’t tell her kindergarten and first-grade students to draw cartoons depicting Walker in jail. She explains on her blog.

Walsh wrote:

“*Disclaimer: For those of you who don’t know me very well, I just want to make it clear that I did not talk about MY personal opinion of Scott Walker with these kids. I made it clear that it is important for everyone to feel comfortable expressing their own opinions through art. I did clearly state that I love our public schools and think it’s important for them to have a good public education. This should not be a controversial statement.”

“Many of the kids also have permission from their parents to chat with me about political things after my contract time,” she told Wisconsin Reporter. “Sometimes kids just start talking about stuff with me and I tell them that if they want to have a conversation with me about politics, they need to get permission from their parents and it needs to be after my contract time.”

It shows. Several of her tweets are images of teacher evaluations where her students wrote in the comments section “Walker sucks!”

Walsh asked that Wisconsin Reporter’s story not be used for publication. “You do not have permission to publish anything about me, my classroom or my blog before I see it first,” she wrote, apparently not grasping the concept of a free press. By the way, it is Wisconsin Reporter’s policy not to show sources stories before publication.
I applaud this teacher for her wise guidance in helping her students to form their own well thought through political opinions and for sharing them with the world.

movielib
09-26-13, 09:51 AM
Wisconsin has been moving to the top in economic growth according to the Philly Fed which tracks such things.

http://www.htrnews.com/article/20130924/MAN0101/309240329/Wisconsin-Ranked-No-2-economic-growth?nclick_check=1

Wisconsin Ranked No. 2 in economic growth
Sep. 24, 2013 |
Written by
HTR Media

MADISON — Wisconsin jumped to No. 2 in the nation for economic growth this month, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia’s coincident index.

“This is more great news, not only for the state, but for job-seekers and employers as well,” said Gov. Scott Walker, in a news release. “A better economy means a better quality of life for all Wisconsinites, and that is why it is my top priority. This latest history-making ranking is one more sign we are heading in the right direction.”

The coincident index is a measure of economic conditions for all 50 states. The coincident index is calculated by using four state variables, the news release said. These include employment, average hours worked in manufacturing, the unemployment rate, and wage and salary data.

This ranking is latest in series of economic news for state, according to the news release:

Private sector job growth from April to July shows the largest three-month gain on record going back to 1990 at 28,100. Total job growth is the best as well with 31,900.

• Wisconsin housing permits for the first seven months of 2013 are 20.5 percent above 2012.

• New business formations year-to-date are up 4.2 percent from 2012 levels.

• Average initial weekly unemployment insurance claims are at 13-year low.

• Wisconsin’s unemployment rate is 6.7 percent, below the national average of 7.3 percent.
Wisconsin had been languishing near the bottom earlier in the year. But around four months ago, things started changing. For May the state jumped to 20th, then to 5th in June

See: http://www.rightwisconsin.com/perspectives/217661991.html.

Strangely (not really), the earlier months' reports were touted by Dems as proof that Walker was running the state into the ground. Much of the state's media ran big stories under big headlines. I remember hearing about this a lot with many articles being written and Dems talking about it at every opportunity.

Then all of a sudden stories got much smaller or disappeared altogether. Dems fell silent. Here's what happened at the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel:

http://www.rightwisconsin.com/perspectives/225095622.html

As recently as July of this year [reporting on the report for May, before the June report came out in late July], when the state was still ranked #20 in the country, the JS treated the Fed index as news.

That all abruptly changed when the numbers turned upward, with the paper suddenly deciding that the Fed numbers were no longer newsworthy. In late July, when the Fed Index ranked Wisconsin at #5… the editors simply spiked the story, belatedly determining that the numbers they had given banner headlines were now "too unreliable to be reported on a monthly basis."
To be fair, Walker and the Republicans didn't want to talk about these reports earlier in the year and now they want very much to talk about it. But that's to be expected from politicians of all stripes, isn't it?

But what about the media?

kvrdave
09-26-13, 10:20 AM
Well, we know that the media isn't liberal. Just ask them and other liberals.

scott182
10-01-13, 02:22 PM
Presumably Walker hasn't updated his ads and press releases to reflect a statement from the Philly Fed?

They say the index — which is comprised of several different economic statistics including housing starts, unemployment claims and wages — isn’t designed as a ranking. The Fed does not calculate a ranking based on the index and never has.


http://host.madison.com/news/local/writers/mike_ivey/philly-fed-says-scott-walker-wmc-offer-misleading-data-on/article_5e385eb4-27c2-11e3-a3bf-001a4bcf887a.html

movielib
10-01-13, 04:04 PM
I'm not going to support Walker and the Republicans over the Democrats on this. Indeed, my previous post criticized the press, particularly the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel in this case and their treatment of the figures when they were bad (banner headlines, front page stories) and when they were good (figures basically worthless, not worth reporting).

As I said, politicians are going to spin things their way. Are the Democrats going to retract their trashing of Walker from when the numbers were bad?

Now it is interesting to read the comments on this article. The first comment is particularly interesting:

MadtownGuy - 2 hours ago

The Cap Times needs to come clean on this story. Although they have altered it a little to make it a little less misleading this still absolutely reeks of biased reporting. The Fed did not direct any communication towards Scott Walker or WMC. I talked to the Philadelphia Fed to confirm this. In the original version of this story the Cap Times said that "Top officials with the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia are warning Gov. Scott Walker, Wisconsin Manufacturers & Commerce...". According the the FRB-Philly they have had no communication on this subject outside of responding to a Capital Times email about how the Coincident Index works. They have issued no statement to Scott Walker or WMC. Their email response to the Cap. Times also made no mention of Scott Walker or WMC & their email was not directed towards Walker, only to the Cap. Times.

The pro-Walker camp is using the "rankings" in the exact same way as the Cap Times did in this story. http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/morning-briefing-state-th-in-economic-outlook-east-washington-deal/article_6a4a66f0-ce9b-11e2-b93e-0019bb2963f4.html Funny how these rankings were good for the Cap. Times to report when the state was 49th but now they are "misleading" when we are 2nd.

Why doesn't the Cap. Times come out and say that they provided these very same rankings in the past? If they are misleading now, weren't they misleading then? They should also rewrite this story to make it clear that the only party told by the Fed that the rankings were misleading was the Cap. Times. So if anyone was "warned" about using misleading statistics it was the Cap. Times. It seems like any decent paper would be comfortable clearing up the facts in an unbiased manner. The headline of story should be changed. The Philly Fed has said nothing about Scott Walker or WMC at all. Call them and ask if you want to find out for yourself (215) 574-4197.
It is also odd that the Capital Times made a big deal out of this when they quoted the Philly Fed saying the same thing in an article two months ago in an article by the same writer. Did he have amnesia?

http://host.madison.com/news/local/writers/mike_ivey/new-philadelphia-fed-report-shows-wisconsin-economy-strengthening/article_ecdecc2c-f953-11e2-ba76-001a4bcf887a.html

It is obviously the standard explanation/disclaimer.

But it seems the Capital Times, one of the most leftist "newspapers" in the country (online only since 2008) thought it had a gotcha moment and wanted to use it.

kvrdave
10-01-13, 04:46 PM
<img src=http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Jon-Stewart-saying-Oh-Snap.gif>

scott182
10-02-13, 11:42 AM
I'm pretty liberal, and I complete agree that the article I posted was very misleading, especially to say that officials with the Philly Fed "issued a statement" when said statement was a personal email to the writer. No more misleading than WMC taking out an ad claiming that a single ranking for a single month suggests that the state's economy is all roses.

movielib
10-02-13, 05:01 PM
I'm pretty liberal, and I complete agree that the article I posted was very misleading, especially to say that officials with the Philly Fed "issued a statement" when said statement was a personal email to the writer. No more misleading than WMC taking out an ad claiming that a single ranking for a single month suggests that the state's economy is all roses.
I found the WMC ad and while I wouldn't say it goes so far as to suggest that "all is roses" I do agree it is misleading. Both sides have been misleading and have been cherry picking what they want and ignoring contrary statistics.

kvrdave
10-02-13, 05:20 PM
It makes me very glad for my own state's politicians. We are a liberal state, but the two sides get along quite well.

scott182
10-02-13, 10:01 PM
It makes me very glad for my own state's politicians. We are a liberal state, but the two sides get along quite well.

Wish I could say the same here. I've only been here 7 years, but I don't think Wisconsin has ever been this divided between Democrats & Republicans. movielib, if you've been here longer, would you say that's true? I guess Wisconsin is a microcosm of the U.S. in some ways.

movielib
10-02-13, 11:11 PM
Wish I could say the same here. I've only been here 7 years, but I don't think Wisconsin has ever been this divided between Democrats & Republicans. movielib, if you've been here longer, would you say that's true? I guess Wisconsin is a microcosm of the U.S. in some ways.
I've lived in Wisconsin (Waukesha/Whitefish Bay/Madison) nearly all of my 66 years except for when I went to Northwestern (Go Cats!).

I've never before seen this level of animosity.

It makes me very glad for my own state's politicians. We are a liberal state, but the two sides get along quite well.
http://yourmarketingco.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/boring.jpg

BKenn01
10-06-13, 09:58 PM
I've lived in Wisconsin (Waukesha/Whitefish Bay/Madison) nearly all of my 66 years except for when I went to Northwestern (Go Cats!).

I've never before seen this level of animosity.


http://yourmarketingco.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/boring.jpg

And I bet no one has said before (and been serious about it) "Its them Guvmt. Employees fault we are broke". Walker took them on.

movielib
07-31-14, 07:52 AM
The Wisconsin Supreme Court upholds Act 10, the (in)famous law that all but ended collective bargaining for public employee unions in Wisconsin. The vote was 5-2, meaning one of the court's three liberals voted with the four conservatives. The two dissenters, Chief Justice Shirley Abrahamson and Ann Walsh Bradley have virtually never deviated from the "progressive" agenda.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/wisconsin-supreme-court-upholds-act-in---ruling/article_0d448a2d-dd28-5a57-abeb-f32e114d80c3.html

Wisconsin Supreme Court upholds Act 10 in 5-2 ruling
By Ed Treleven | Wisconsin State Journal
July 31, 2014

More than three years after its passage sparked massive protests that jammed the Capitol Square, the state Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of a divisive state law that sharply curtailed the collective bargaining rights of most public workers.

In a 5-2 decision, the court said that public workers in Wisconsin do not have a constitutional right to bargain collectively.

"We reject the plaintiffs' argument that several provisions of Act 10, which delineate the rights, obligations and procedures of collective bargaining, somehow infringe upon general employees' constitutional right to freedom of association," Justice Michael Gableman wrote for the majority.

"No matter the limitations or 'burdens' a legislative enactment places on the collective bargaining process, collective bargaining remains a creation of legislative grace and not constitutional obligation. The First Amendment cannot be used as a vehicle to expand the parameters of a benefit that it does not itself protect."

Justice Ann Walsh Bradley dissented, and was joined by Justice Shirley Abrahamson.

The collective bargaining law, known as Act 10, prohibits general employees from bargaining on issues other than base wages, imposed annual recertification requirements on unions and prohibits the state and municipalities from deducting union dues from paychecks.

Public safety employees, which include some but not all police unions, kept the rights they had before the law took effect.

Several key provisions of the law were ruled unconstitutional in 2012 by Dane County Circuit Judge Juan Colas, who found that they violated constitutional guarantees of free speech and freedom of association. He also said the law violates the constitutional equal protection clause by creating separate classes of state workers who are treated differently and unequally under the law.

Colas’ ruling only affected school and municipal workers, not state employees, who were not a party to the lawsuit that led to his decision.

A state appeals court did not rule on an appeal by the state Department of Justice, instead sending the case to the high court, which held oral arguments in November.

A federal appeals court in January 2013 upheld other portions of the law that had been overturned by U.S. District Court Judge William Conley. Those pertained to the collection of union dues through payroll deductions and annual union recertification elections required under the law.
Act 10 has now been upheld by the highest court in Wisconsin and in Federal Court. There is little doubt that this battle is finally and decisively over.

[I'll post about other decisions about voter ID and a case related to gay marriage in their respective threads.]

BearFan
07-31-14, 08:34 AM
Excellent news. Glad to see all the union money was so well spent on lawyers and recalls. That is government level bang for your buck.

movielib
07-31-14, 12:06 PM
Excellent news. Glad to see all the union money was so well spent on lawyers and recalls. That is government level bang for your buck.
It's hard to believe this was such a big deal almost 3 1/2 years ago. Think about tens of thousands of people yelling and screaming at Walker and other Republicans in the Capitol Square and in the Capitol. You'd think Governor Walker was trying to bring back slavery. All 14 Democratic state senators fled the state for almost three weeks to deny the state senate a quorum which the Republicans were short of by only one vote. The fact is that Act 10 was clearly constitutional (my only objection was that it didn't apply to police and fire fighting personnel but that was OK with the court; I'd still like to see that changed) and had far more pluses than minuses.

This list was published yesterday and while I don't doubt it's overly simplistic and somewhat cherry-picked I think it's probably pretty accurate in general.

This article was posted yesterday in anticipation of the Supreme Court ruling coming today.

http://www.maciverinstitute.com/2014/07/13-reasons-act-10-saved-wisconsin/

13 Reasons Act 10 Saved Wisconsin
By Nick Novak | Posted July 30, 2014 1:00 PM
July 30, 2014

With the state Supreme Court releasing its decision tomorrow on the constitutionality of Act 10, we at the MacIver Institute wanted to take a quick look at all the good that has come from Wisconsin's 2011 collective bargaining reforms. This is not an exhaustive list by far, but it does clearly show that Act 10 is an overwhelming and unquestioned success for taxpayers.

1. Act 10 has saved taxpayers nearly $3 billion, and the savings continue to add up.

2. Act 10 gave local units of government and school districts the flexibility to choose any health care plan, saving taxpayers millions.

Like the City of Eau Claire, which saved $2.3 million.

And Appleton School District, which saved 6.2 million.

3. Act 10 has allowed public employees to get raises based on merit, not just seniority - just like the private sector.

4. Act 10 has saved taxpayers millions in overtime costs because workers no longer have the ability to call in sick for one shift, only to be paid time-and-a-half for working the next one.

5. Act 10 gave public workers a choice on whether or not to join a union, and it turns out thousands of employees didn't want to pay their union dues anymore.

6. Act 10 allowed more taxpayer money to flow into the classroom, instead of union bosses' pockets.

7. Act 10 rescued taxpayers from having to pay for nearly all of government workers retirements costs. Prior to Act 10, taxpayers forked over $1.37 billion for state pensions, while employees only paid $8 million. Now public employees pay a portion of their retirement, similar to the private sector.

8. Act 10 gave school districts more budgetary flexibility, allowing them to expand programming.

9. Act 10 gave workers the option to vote on whether or not they even need a union. In 2013, 81 school district unions were dismantled by their members.

10. Act 10 increased efficiency and reduced state overtime by 22 percent in 2012, a savings of nearly $14 million.

11. Act 10 saved the jobs of hard-working teachers all across the state, including more than 1,000 in Milwaukee.

12. Act 10 allowed school districts to focus on keeping the best teachers in the classroom, not just the oldest.

13. Act 10 saved the state alone hundreds of millions of dollars each budget, paving the way for tax cut, after tax cut, after tax cut.
The fact is that the Democratic candidate for governor, Mary Burke, has not and will not campaign against Act 10 (which was the overriding cause of the recall) and has not vowed to repeal it (although she says she is in favor of collective bargaining for government employee unions). She knows it's not a winning issue for her.

BearFan
07-31-14, 12:54 PM
It is funny, you can go back and look at all the Doomsday posts for this ... turns out it they did not happen.