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View Full Version : 2012 Republican Presidential Candidates - ptII


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kvrdave
10-31-11, 08:11 PM
When was the last time a presidential candidate broke into song at the National Press Club?
pZe75JSXhyU

:lol: When was the last time a president presidential candidate played the saxaphone on late night tv?

Please.

JasonF
10-31-11, 08:59 PM
:lol: When was the last time a president presidential candidate played the saxaphone on late night tv?

Please.

I could try to point out that there's a world of difference between appearing on a talk show and breaking into a hymn during a press conference to defend allegations of sexual impropriety, but what's the point? Instead, here's a picture of a rabbit with a funny caption:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yelCqG4DbqI/S1DvqVmxupI/AAAAAAAAABo/fz9BXVNKpJc/s320/bunny-7.jpg

JumpCutz
10-31-11, 09:20 PM
breaking into a hymn during a press conference to defend allegations of sexual impropriety

I didn't realize that was the context of the hymn. Unreal.:lol: I think this is the beginning of the end for the pizza king.

BearFan
10-31-11, 09:24 PM
I didn't realize that was the context of the hymn. Unreal.:lol: I think this is the beginning of the end for the pizza king.

he should have said "excuse me while I whip this out", then read a statement about how he did not have sexual relations with that woman (those women).

crazyronin
10-31-11, 10:05 PM
I could try to point out that there's a world of difference between appearing on a talk show and breaking into a hymn during a press conference to defend allegations of sexual impropriety, but what's the point? Instead, here's a picture of a rabbit with a funny caption:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yelCqG4DbqI/S1DvqVmxupI/AAAAAAAAABo/fz9BXVNKpJc/s320/bunny-7.jpg

It was a National Press Club luncheon ( press.org/news-multimedia/videos/npc-luncheon-herman-cain) where the moderator said there would be no questions about the "scandal", but what's the point? Instead, here's a beefcake picture of President Dwight D. Eisenhower:

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/8370/eisenhowerbeefcakepw7.jpg

Sadly, it lacks a funny caption. :sad:

Sean O'Hara
10-31-11, 10:24 PM
:lol: When was the last time a president presidential candidate played the saxaphone on late night tv?

Please.

Yeah, the two are at all comparable. This is more like going on Larry King and ranting about how the Republicans are going to ruin your daughter's wedding.

JasonF
10-31-11, 10:53 PM
It was a National Press Club luncheon ( press.org/news-multimedia/videos/npc-luncheon-herman-cain) where the moderator said there would be no questions about the "scandal", but what's the point?

What's the point indeed? Here's a riddle: How many legs does my dog have if I say his tail is a leg? The answer, of course, is four, because the mere fact that I call a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg, and the mere fact that a moderator said there wouldn't be questions about the scandal doesn't mean that no questions about the scandal were asked.

Artman
10-31-11, 11:45 PM
I do not yet see anything that worries me about Cain.

He used to reign Supreme, now he's the Hawaiian deal that wasn't nearly as good as last month's Meat Lovers! Give it up dough man!!

Nesbit
11-01-11, 12:05 AM
Wait until it comes out that Romney is a never nude.

kvrdave
11-01-11, 01:31 AM
I could try to point out that there's a world of difference between appearing on a talk show and breaking into a hymn during a press conference to defend allegations of sexual impropriety, but what's the point?

:eek: I didn't realize that. That might actually mean something if they turn out to be true. Did you know that Obama played basketball after allegations of fucking children with priests? I made those allegations and he just played basketball. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!

Herman Cain could have an unpaid parking ticket and it would make him a terrible candidate in your eyes. But this isn't even an unpaid parking ticket, it is allegations against the guy who is leading in the polls.

This press conference was held for Cain to defend allegations of sexual impropriety? Can you back that up?

If there is substantial proof of these allegations, let's kick him out of the race. But let's not pretend that you actually care about allegations. Hell, you don't even care much about actual deeds when it comes to a Democrat. A little cigar in the vagina, a little snorting of coke, that's all good so long as they admit it, or are at least forced to. BUT THESE ARE ALLEGATIONS!!!! We should all view him with shame.

Fuuuuuuck.

crazyronin
11-01-11, 05:59 AM
What's the point indeed? Here's a riddle: How many legs does my dog have if I say his tail is a leg? The answer, of course, is four, because the mere fact that I call a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg, and the mere fact that a moderator said there wouldn't be questions about the scandal doesn't mean that no questions about the scandal were asked.

Here's a koan for you: What is the sound of goalposts moving? Needless to say, you were wrong in saying that Cain broke into a hymn "during a press conference to defend allegations of sexual impropriety". It was a long scheduled NPC event.

JasonF
11-01-11, 08:53 AM
Here's a koan for you: What is the sound of goalposts moving? Needless to say, you were wrong in saying that Cain broke into a hymn "during a press conference to defend allegations of sexual impropriety". It was a long scheduled NPC event.

You win. Instead of saying Cain broke into a hymn during a press conference to defend [himself from] allegations of sexual impropriety, I should have said he broke into a hymn during a press conference in which he was defending [himself from] allegations of sexual impropriety. That totally makes it not at all weird.

crazyronin
11-01-11, 09:30 AM
You win. Instead of saying Cain broke into a hymn during a press conference to defend [himself from] allegations of sexual impropriety, I should have said he broke into a hymn during a press conference in which he was defending [himself from] allegations of sexual impropriety. That totally makes it not at all weird.

I know you live in hicksville, but us sophisticated urbanites up here in Maine listen to the National Press Club luncheons broadcasted on NPR. Plus we know that they are not "press conferences."

Try broadening your horizons.

CRM114
11-01-11, 09:43 AM
If there is substantial proof of these allegations, let's kick him out of the race. But let's not pretend that you actually care about allegations. Hell, you don't even care much about actual deeds when it comes to a Democrat. A little cigar in the vagina, a little snorting of coke, that's all good so long as they admit it, or are at least forced to. BUT THESE ARE ALLEGATIONS!!!! We should all view him with shame.

Fuuuuuuck.

So let me get this straight. To you, sexual harassment and consensual sex is that same thing? :lol: Wow.

And no one is kicking anyone out the race. These are your guys. You vote for who you want to.

CRM114
11-01-11, 09:46 AM
I know you live in hicksville, but us sophisticated urbanites up here in Maine listen to the National Press Club luncheons broadcasted on NPR. Plus we know that they are not "press conferences."

Try broadening your horizons.

What do Mainers listening to those new-fangled radio contraptions have to do with Cain defending himself by singing a hymn?

Sean O'Hara
11-01-11, 09:56 AM
I know you live in hicksville, but us sophisticated urbanites up here in Maine listen to the National Press Club luncheons broadcasted on NPR. Plus we know that they are not "press conferences."

Try broadening your horizons.

What, precisely, is the difference between the two, and how does it being the National Press Club make Cain's behavior look non-nutty?

DeputyDave
11-01-11, 10:38 AM
So let me get this straight. To you, sexual harassment and consensual sex is that same thing? :lol: Wow.

And no one is kicking anyone out the race. These are your guys. You vote for who you want to.

If I am not mistaken there were a lot of allegations against Clinton more serious than just consensual sex. Unless there is more out there it seems to be nothing more than a woman being made uncomfortable by some perceived sexual comments.

I'm not saying what he did was fine but in this day and age I generally take these kinds of things with a grain of salt. Similar to domestic violence. Yes, I know DV exists and is extremely serious, but I have seen many cases where it turned out to be only the accusations of a woman scorned where there was no proof (but the man was still arrested) and she later recanted. I myself was put in this exact position and came very close to losing my job based on a lie.

Psi
11-01-11, 10:41 AM
What, precisely, is the difference between the two, and how does it being the National Press Club make Cain's behavior look non-nutty?

It is well known that the NPC luncheon is a hymn-singing event, and no questions are allowed there.

kvrdave
11-01-11, 11:43 AM
So let me get this straight. To you, sexual harassment and consensual sex is that same thing? :lol: Wow.

And no one is kicking anyone out the race. These are your guys. You vote for who you want to.

Perhaps I should have compared it to the rape allegations against Clinton. Does that feel more appropriate?

crazyronin
11-01-11, 11:44 AM
What do Mainers listening to those new-fangled radio contraptions have to do with Cain defending himself by singing a hymn?

Because if you clodhopping hicks had your Marconis tuned to NPR, you would have heard that Mr. Cain did not sing the hymn to excuse his supposed actions, but did so at a request from Club president Mark Hamrick:

Hamrick concluded the event by asking Cain, without advance warning, to “end on a high note” by singing. Cain, an associate minister at a Baptist church in Atlanta that he has attended since age 10, complied by rendering “Amazing Grace” a cappella.

linkety link link (press.org/news-multimedia/news/cain-denies-sexual-harrassment-touts-tax-plan-sings-spiritual-club-luncheon)

But, what's the point? Instead here's a picture of a 'gator with an amusing caption:

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/3535/tebowned.jpg

wmansir
11-01-11, 11:45 AM
What, precisely, is the difference between the two, and how does it being the National Press Club make Cain's behavior look non-nutty?
One difference would be the president of the NPC, who was acting as host and moderator for the event, asked Cain if he would perform a song for them.

There is a difference between "Cain broke into song during a press conference" and "Cain sung a song during an event appearance at the host's request."

EDIT: doh, too late.

CRM114
11-01-11, 11:47 AM
Perhaps I should have compared it to the rape allegations against Clinton. Does that feel more appropriate?

I suppose so if Clinton had given his accuser a settlement payout. Which I don't believe he did.

Superboy
11-01-11, 11:48 AM
I suppose so if Clinton had given his accuser a settlement payout. Which I don't believe he did.

Who do you think paid for Paula Jones' terrible plastic surgery?

CRM114
11-01-11, 11:50 AM
Because if you clodhopping hicks had your Marconis tuned to NPR, you would have heard that Mr. Cain did not sing the hymn to excuse his supposed actions, but did so at a request from Club president Mark Hamrick:


Do you think anyone is disputing the course of events? Who gives a shit?


One difference would be the president of the NPC, who was acting as host and moderator for the event, asked Cain if he would perform a song for them.

There is a difference between "Cain broke into song during a press conference" and "Cain sung a song during an event appearance at the host's request."

EDIT: doh, too late.

Yeah, wow. Thanks for clearing that up guys. :rolleyes:

CRM114
11-01-11, 11:51 AM
Who do you think paid for Paula Jones' terrible plastic surgery?

I don't believe Paula Jones ever accused Clinton of rape. That was Juanita Broderick whose shit was never taken seriously by any court.

JasonF
11-01-11, 11:51 AM
If I am not mistaken there were a lot of allegations against Clinton more serious than just consensual sex. Unless there is more out there it seems to be nothing more than a woman being made uncomfortable by some perceived sexual comments.

Two women, actually.

For me, it's not so much about the allegations. While sexual harassment can be serious, from what I've been able to tell, these allegations are unproven. Moreover, we really don't know if this is, for example, simply a case of Cain telling an off-color joke in front of a couple of colleagues (of course, it could be something more extreme that we would all agree is thoroughly inappropriate, but the point is that we don't know). So if I were inclined to support Cain prior to this, the fact that these allegations have surfaced probably wouldn't cause me to reassess that unless it came out that Cain really had done something seriously improper.

However, what would give me second thought is how badly Cain has handled this. As far as presidential scandals go, this one was an easy flyball right to center field. Instead of catching it and sending the ball to the infield to hold up the runner at first, Cain has dropped the ball and muffed the throw to the cut-off man, putting runners in scoring position.

SunMonkey
11-01-11, 11:54 AM
It was a National Press Club luncheon ( press.org/news-multimedia/videos/npc-luncheon-herman-cain) where the moderator said there would be no questions about the "scandal", but what's the point?
And immediately before the clip, the moderator asked if Cain would end the luncheon with a song.

crazyronin
11-01-11, 11:57 AM
What, precisely, is the difference between the two, and how does it being the National Press Club make Cain's behavior look non-nutty?

Are you suggesting that whoever does scheduling at NPC is clairvoyant? This appearance was scheduled over a month ago. Or do you not know what an NPC luncheon entails?

DeputyDave
11-01-11, 12:01 PM
Do you think anyone is disputing the course of events? Who gives a shit?

Yeah, wow. Thanks for clearing that up guys. :rolleyes:

Actually, yes. As a previous poster said: "I could try to point out that there's a world of difference between appearing on a talk show and breaking into a hymn during a press conference to defend allegations of sexual impropriety, but what's the point?"

He was completely wrong and there is not a world of diference between the two situations. Except of course one is a Republican wich makes it so, so, so bad.

kvrdave
11-01-11, 12:02 PM
I suppose so if Clinton had given his accuser a settlement payout. Which I don't believe he did.

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/01/13/us/clinton-pays-settlement.html

President Clinton sent $850,000 to Paula Corbin Jones to settle the sexual misconduct lawsuit that led to his impeachment trial. Page A14.


Fuck, how you gonna' justify your hatred against blacks now?

CRM114
11-01-11, 12:06 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/01/13/us/clinton-pays-settlement.html


So you've now backtracked off the "rape" charge. Just let me know where you are moving the goalposts and I'll try and keep up.

Fuck, how you gonna' justify your hatred against blacks now?

I don't get it.

CRM114
11-01-11, 12:10 PM
Actually, yes. As a previous poster said: "I could try to point out that there's a world of difference between appearing on a talk show and breaking into a hymn during a press conference to defend allegations of sexual impropriety, but what's the point?"

He was completely wrong and there is not a world of diference between the two situations. Except of course one is a Republican wich makes it so, so, so bad.

Wrong that it was a press conference? Like I said, who gives a shit? :lol:

kvrdave
11-01-11, 12:11 PM
So you've now backtracked off the "rape" charge. Just let me know where you are moving the goalposts and I'll try and keep up.

Ah, an example in which Clinton was accused of sexual harassment and paid out a settlement doesn't seem like the same thing to you with Cain being accused of sexual harassment and paying out a settlement (I hadn't heard that he paid one out). You find this situation one that justifies not liking the one but being fine with the other. Explain your position please. How is one bad and the other okay when it appears they are no different? I made a mistake about the rape thing. Sometimes I get Clinton's victims confused because of the numbers.


I don't get it. If you don't support Cain it is because you are a racist.

Th0r S1mpson
11-01-11, 12:16 PM
People who don't support Cain only voted for Obama because he's half white.

CRM114
11-01-11, 12:22 PM
Ah, an example in which Clinton was accused of sexual harassment and paid out a settlement doesn't seem like the same thing to you with Cain being accused of sexual harassment and paying out a settlement (I hadn't heard that he paid one out). You find this situation one that justifies not liking the one but being fine with the other. Explain your position please. How is one bad and the other okay when it appears they are no different? I made a mistake about the rape thing. Sometimes I get Clinton's victims confused because of the numbers.

Sure, they are exactly the same except that's not what you said and not what I was responding to. You said:

Perhaps I should have compared it to the rape allegations against Clinton. Does that feel more appropriate?

You never said anything about any sexual harassment settlements. If you did, I would not have responded.

If you don't support Cain it is because you are a racist.

Um, ...ok?

crazyronin
11-01-11, 12:24 PM
Wrong that it was a press conference? Like I said, who gives a shit? :lol:

I could try to point out that there's a world of difference between appearing on a talk show and breaking into a hymn during a press conference to defend allegations of sexual impropriety

Do try to keep up. I feel that you would be useless in the upcoming discussion of Wittgenstein, but we'll let you drink beer in the parking lot whilst you smash mustard packets on your chest.

CRM114
11-01-11, 12:27 PM
How many more posts are you going to make about something completely irrelevant? :lol:

Cain -> Sexual harasser -> At Event -> Sang hymn

Any other nonsense you link to does nothing to change these facts or change opinions on your guy. And no one cares. But you. And maybe kvrdave. And I'm sure if bhk is lurking, he cares.

kvrdave
11-01-11, 12:29 PM
You never said anything about any sexual harassment settlements. If you did, I would not have responded.


Good thing I made the mistake so you could learn how poor your position is. :lol:

But to make you happy, Clinton didn't pay out a settlement when he raped people, but did pay out a settlement for sexual harassment. That's okay. But Cain potentially paying out on a sexual harassment claim is bad. This is a consistent line of reasoning.

X
11-01-11, 12:29 PM
So... what does everyone think of Rick Perry?

kvrdave
11-01-11, 12:31 PM
How many more posts are you going to make about something completely irrelevant? :lol:

Cain -> Sexual harasser -> At Event -> Sang hymn

Any other nonsense you link to does nothing to change these facts or change opinions on your guy. And no one cares. But you. And maybe kvrdave. And I'm sure if bhk is lurking, he cares.

You seem to care. :lol:

CRM114
11-01-11, 12:31 PM
Good thing I made the mistake so you could learn how poor your position is. :lol:

But to make you happy, Clinton didn't pay out a settlement when he raped people, but did pay out a settlement for sexual harassment. That's okay. But Cain potentially paying out on a sexual harassment claim is bad. This is a consistent line of reasoning.

What the fuck are you talking about? What position? I swear you people are arguing inside your heads. :lol:

Superboy
11-01-11, 12:32 PM
If I am not mistaken there were a lot of allegations against Clinton more serious than just consensual sex. Unless there is more out there it seems to be nothing more than a woman being made uncomfortable by some perceived sexual comments.

I'm not saying what he did was fine but in this day and age I generally take these kinds of things with a grain of salt. Similar to domestic violence. Yes, I know DV exists and is extremely serious, but I have seen many cases where it turned out to be only the accusations of a woman scorned where there was no proof (but the man was still arrested) and she later recanted. I myself was put in this exact position and came very close to losing my job based on a lie.

Call me crazy, but part of living in an ordered society is learning to accept that some people will be wrongly convicted of a crime they were perfectly innocent of. It's one of the sacrifices of liberty that we as a society have to make in order to ensure that order and justice can work.

CRM114
11-01-11, 12:32 PM
You seem to care. :lol:

That Cain is a harassing Jesus Freak? Sure, it's amusing. Par for the course though.

X
11-01-11, 12:33 PM
How about that Jon Huntsman...

kvrdave
11-01-11, 12:36 PM
That Cain is a harassing Jesus Freak? Sure, it's amusing. Par for the course though.

Racism is particularly ugly when you realize it is 2011.

crazyronin
11-01-11, 12:37 PM
How many more posts are you going to make about something completely irrelevant? :lol:

I could go on about how the NPC doesn't know the difference between "Amazing Grace" and "He Looked Beyond My Faults", but I'll leave derailing threads into "Atheist Talk" to you. -wink-

Th0r S1mpson
11-01-11, 12:41 PM
So... what does everyone think of Rick Perry?

His endorsement is the only thing that will matter at this point, though only a little.

DeputyDave
11-01-11, 12:43 PM
I've maintained for years that the first black president would come from the Republican party. Looks like I might have been right.

Tracer Bullet
11-01-11, 12:44 PM
So... what does everyone think of Rick Perry?

Not much!

Thanks for asking!

kvrdave
11-01-11, 01:04 PM
That Cain is a harassing Jesus Freak? Sure, it's amusing. Par for the course though.

Racism is particularly ugly when you realize it is 2011.

JumpCutz
11-01-11, 01:11 PM
Racism is particularly ugly when you realize it is 2011.

Says the dog killer who rails non-stop about Obama. -ohbfrank-

Josh-da-man
11-01-11, 02:09 PM
Instead of singing a hymn at that press conference, he should have started rapping "Me So Horny."

Sittin' at home with my dick all hard
So I got the black book for a freak to call
Picked up the telephone, then dialed the 7 digits
Said, "Yo, this Herman, baby! Are you down with it?"
I arrived at her house, knocked on the door
Not having no idea of what the night had in store
I'm like a dog in heat, a freak without warning
I have an appetite for sex, 'cause me so horny

Girls always ask me why I fuck so much
I say "What's wrong, baby doll, with a quick nut?"
'Cause you're the one, and you shouldn't be mad
I won't tell your mama if you don't tell your dad
I know he'll be disgusted when he sees your pussy busted
Won't your mama be so mad if she knew I got that ass?
I'm a freak in heat, a dog without warning
My appetite is sex, 'cause me so horny

You can say I'm desperate, even call me perverted
But you say I'm a dog when I leave you fucked and deserted
I'll play with your heart just like it's a game
I'll be blowing your mind while you're blowing my brains
I'm just like that man they call Georgie Puddin' Pie
I fuck all the girls and I make 'em cry
I'm like a dog in heat, a freak without warning
I have an appetite for sex, 'cause me so horny.

It's true, you were a virgin until you met me
I was the first to make you hot and wetty-wetty
You tell your parents that we're goin' out
Never to the movies, just straight to my house
You said it yourself, you like it like I do
Put your lips on my dick, and suck my asshole too
I'm a freak in heat, a dog without warning
My appetite is sex, 'cause me so horny

Dr Mabuse
11-01-11, 02:20 PM
This racist lynching of Cain...

Took it right out of J Edgar's playbook. Just like he went after MLK, trumped up sex stuff as fodder for the racists.

classicman2
11-01-11, 03:21 PM
This racist lynching of Cain...

Took it right out of J Edgar's playbook. Just like he went after MLK, trumped up sex stuff as fodder for the racists.

Who was really in charge for 'going after' MLK? Hoover had a boss who authorized it - RK?

Navinabob
11-01-11, 04:00 PM
Personally, I thought the sexual harassment accusation were ugly regardless of the party or official. I lump Cain, Clinton, Schwarzenegger, Weiner and countless others together as being morally repulsive in that one area. I'm not sure it'd change my view of them politically if I was inclined to already like their job performance, but I might choose to not vote for them before, or again, if I was on the fence in supporting them or not. Sex scandal ranks rather low on my reasons like to like Cain.

CRM114
11-01-11, 04:05 PM
Good point. I was never for seeing that wide stance dude in Utah resign or David Vitter (although him calling out others is pretty repugnant) or McGreevey, Weiner, or Clinton. You're already in office and the voters can vote you out. But for someone not yet in office, it is an indicator of sorts that allows you to evaluate a person's character ahead of time.

There is a local election here and one candidate was just exposed as having nude photos of himself on the internet. For me, that's an instant no vote.

LurkerDan
11-01-11, 05:31 PM
sometimes I wish CRM114 was a hardcore republican. :lol:

Navinabob
11-01-11, 07:17 PM
Cain sure is coming off slimy calling himself a victim in all this and implying that these ladies are basically con-artists milking him ten years ago. Let's see how Cain can get out of lifting the gag-order on the ladies without looking like a complete ass.

http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFTRE7A07EI20111101

crazyronin
11-01-11, 07:41 PM
Cain sure is coming off slimy calling himself a victim in all this and implying that these ladies are basically con-artists milking him ten years ago. Let's see how Cain can get out of lifting the gag-order on the ladies without looking like a complete ass.

http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFTRE7A07EI20111101

1. It is a non-disclosure agreement not a "gag order."

2. The non-disclosure agreement is between the Nat'l Restaurant Association and the complainant. Mr. Cain couldn't lift it or keep the NRA from releasing the complainants from the agreement.

CaptainMarvel
11-01-11, 08:26 PM
Will somebody just let me know when somebody remakes a good version of Bob Dylan's "Hurricane" using "Herman Cain" (ie., "Here comes the story of the Herman Cain/ The man the authorities came to blame/ For somethin' that he never done")?

I've been waiting for it, but if it's happened, I've missed it.

Nausicaa
11-01-11, 08:56 PM
In what way is bringing to light real allegations once leveled against Cain racist? Had it come to light in 2008 that Obama was once accused of sexual harassment by two TAs, does anyone really doubt it would have been a story?

Besides which, the way this is being portrayed as a leftist smear against Cain is kind of ridiculous. First of all, Politico is hardly some far-left media outlet. And second, who on the left would really care to do this at this point in the race? Seems more likely that whoever leaked this info is a Republican.

Although I am disappointed again the way some on the left have ran with this story as if the allegations were true, and the way this story has become such big news when it isn't even really a story yet.

But at the end of the day the right has once again pissed away whatever sympathy some might have for them by playing the race card and spinning this into their typical evil-leftist-media-vs-courageous-american-patriot spin machine.

CaptainMarvel
11-01-11, 09:10 PM
In response to Nausicaa:
I'm pretty disgusted with both sides these days. With that said, it does seem to me that the Left loves to throw out the race card, but when that option is taken away by their opponent being black, they resort to the sexism card (eg. Clarence Thomas).

Fussing at the right for "playing the race card" when the left has had an almost unchallenged monopoly on it seems misguided.

kvrdave
11-01-11, 10:14 PM
Will somebody just let me know when somebody remakes a good version of Bob Dylan's "Hurricane" using "Herman Cain" (ie., "Here comes the story of the Herman Cain/ The man the authorities came to blame/ For somethin' that he never done")?

I've been waiting for it, but if it's happened, I've missed it.

rotfl

That would be awesome.

TheBigDave
11-01-11, 10:27 PM
Will somebody just let me know when somebody remakes a good version of Bob Dylan's "Hurricane" using "Herman Cain"

I haven't seen that yet. But here's Rock You Like A Herman Cain.

<param name="movie" value="http://cache.reverbnation.com/widgets/swf/40/pro_widget.swf?id=artist_850290&skin_id=PWAS1002&border_color=000000&auto_play=false&shuffle=false&song_ids=10751284"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><param name="allowNetworking" value="all"></param><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true"></param><param name="wmode" value="opaque"></param><param name="quality" value="best"></param><embed src="http://cache.reverbnation.com/widgets/swf/40/pro_widget.swf?id=artist_850290&skin_id=PWAS1002&border_color=000000&auto_play=false&shuffle=false&song_ids=10751284" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowNetworking="all" allowfullscreen="true" wmode="opaque" quality="best" width="262" height="200"></embed></object><br/><img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://www.reverbnation.com/widgets/trk/40/artist_850290//t.gif" />

http://www.reverbnation.com/tunepak/song_10751284
http://christianconservativepolitics.com/2011/10/26/here-i-am-to-rock-the-vote-with-herman-cain/

kvrdave
11-01-11, 11:01 PM
In what way is bringing to light real allegations once leveled against Cain racist? Had it come to light in 2008 that Obama was once accused of sexual harassment by two TAs, does anyone really doubt it would have been a story?


I have no doubt it would have been a story. A racist one.

Nausicaa
11-01-11, 11:59 PM
I have no doubt it would have been a story. A racist one.

No, not in my hypothetical.

Artman
11-02-11, 01:46 AM
This is going from bad to worse... the settlement was for a years' salary - a far cry from the 3 months Cain thought it was. And for him to say he was confused as to what kind of "settlement" he was being asked about is just as embarrassing. Whether or not there's validity to it is almost irrelevant now, his fumbling of this issue takes him out anyways.

I would guess his supporters get reluctantly divided between Perry and Gingrich, and they along with Romney are the final three.

JumpCutz
11-02-11, 03:50 AM
"She don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie...Herm Cain".

kvrdave
11-02-11, 07:34 AM
This is going from bad to worse... the settlement was for a years' salary - a far cry from the 3 months Cain thought it was. And for him to say he was confused as to what kind of "settlement" he was being asked about is just as embarrassing. Whether or not there's validity to it is almost irrelevant now, his fumbling of this issue takes him out anyways.

I would guess his supporters get reluctantly divided between Perry and Gingrich, and they along with Romney are the final three.

If Gingrich is in the final 3, it will be something like 45/45/10. I still don't think this will be that big of a deal. Certainly not big enough to put Gingrich ahead of Cain.

Tracer Bullet
11-02-11, 09:17 AM
Hey look, another meaningless scandal to entertain the masses with while the government colludes with private business to steal everything that's not nailed down.

Josh-da-man
11-02-11, 12:14 PM
...and the Huntsman campaign pulls out the Dirty Sanchez...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iOYVB2hc0HA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Th0r S1mpson
11-02-11, 12:18 PM
Wha?

CRM114
11-02-11, 12:41 PM
Other than believing in that ridiculous Mormon nonsense, I like Huntsman (as much as I can like someone that is fundamentally wrong on almost every issue).

classicman2
11-02-11, 01:15 PM
This is going from bad to worse... the settlement was for a years' salary - a far cry from the 3 months Cain thought it was. And for him to say he was confused as to what kind of "settlement" he was being asked about is just as embarrassing. Whether or not there's validity to it is almost irrelevant now, his fumbling of this issue takes him out anyways.

I would guess his supporters get reluctantly divided between Perry and Gingrich, and they along with Romney are the final three.

She wasn't making much per year - was she? $35,000 - it's not pocket change, but it's not all that much.

daniel18
11-02-11, 01:24 PM
So... what does everyone think of Rick Perry?

Our best hope. Lots of experience, none of it in Washington. Understands the constitution real well and isn't afraid to take action.



How about that Jon Huntsman...

Flaming liberal, though probably by far the most intelligent candidate.

Venusian
11-02-11, 01:32 PM
Is that the new cool thing to do? Make a really weird video so it goes viral?

dork
11-02-11, 02:06 PM
Is that the new cool thing to do? Make a really weird video so it goes viral?
Too lazy to click on the previous page, but I'm assuming the Gingrich sex tape got out?

JasonF
11-02-11, 02:51 PM
JUDY WOODRUFF: Do you view China as a potential military threat to the United States?

HERMAN CAIN: I do view China as a potential military threat to the United States.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And what could you do as president to head that off?

HERMAN CAIN: My China strategy is quite simply outgrow China. It gets back to economics. China has a $6 trillion economy and they're growing at approximately 10 percent. We have a $14 trillion economy -- much bigger -- but we're growing at an anemic 1.5, 1.6 percent. When we get our economy growing back at the rate of 5 or 6 percent that it has the ability to do, we will outgrow China.

And secondly, we already have superiority in terms of our military capability, and I plan to get away from making cutting our defense a priority and make investing in our military capability a priority, going back to my statement: peace through strength and clarity. So yes they're a military threat. They've indicated that they're trying to develop nuclear capability and they want to develop more aircraft carriers like we have. So yes, we have to consider them a military threat.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec11/hermancain_10-31.html

If China gets nuclear capability, will they share it with Ubeki-beki-beki-bekistan?

CRM114
11-02-11, 02:57 PM
He was a CEO of a pizza chain and an aspiring Frank T.J. Mackey. Why in the world would he be expected to know anything about international affairs. I'm afraid Sarah Palin might outwit him in a debate. Probably not.

What a crew you Repubs put together. :lol:

whaaat
11-02-11, 03:09 PM
So... what does everyone think of Rick Perry?
Apparently, he's unable to identify satire. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/oops-rick-perry-mixes-up-funny-for-fact-in-globe-and-mail-article/article2221406/)

slop101
11-02-11, 03:48 PM
Our best hope. Lots of experience, none of it in Washington. Understands the constitution real well and isn't afraid to take action.If by "take action", you mean "get drunk", then yes!

7M4gz97Y9W8

Ky-Fi
11-02-11, 03:48 PM
Too lazy to click on the previous page, but I'm assuming the Gingrich sex tape got out?

I must say the girl was hot, but man, he just kept going on and on about The Federalist Papers to her the whole time.

Navinabob
11-02-11, 05:02 PM
Looks like a 3rd accuser against Cain is stepping out. The AP just had a quick note about it, but I didn't see a full story attached.

Then we got this story...

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/02/oklahoma-pollster-confirms-he-witnessed-incident-involving-cain/

"This occurred at a restaurant in Crystal City (Virginia) and everybody was aware of it," said Wilson, who was a consultant for the organization at the time, in the KTOK interview. "It was only a matter of time because so many people were aware of what took place, so many people were aware of her situation, the fact she left-everybody knew with the campaign that this would eventually come up."

I can't believe his election committee didn't do a due diligence on him... it is just insane. Cain appears to be about as sexually predatory as the Noid was at Domino's Pizza.

Artman
11-02-11, 05:26 PM
Here's the 3rd person story:
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2011/11/02/third-former-cain-employee-claims-she-was-harassed-by-gop-candidate/

And the wheels have officially fallen off...

kvrdave
11-02-11, 05:31 PM
Here's the 3rd person story:
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2011/11/02/third-former-cain-employee-claims-she-was-harassed-by-gop-candidate/

And the wheels have officially fallen off...

The wheels have fallen off because of someone who didn't even file a complaint?

Jason
11-02-11, 05:36 PM
By the time we get to the first primary, Gary Johnson and John Huntsman may be the only two republican candidates left.

Artman
11-02-11, 05:38 PM
The wheels have fallen off because of someone who didn't even file a complaint?

Because the accusations are coming faster than The Godfather can give his feckless responses...

Who knows, his supporters seem to be just as belligerently loyal as Paul's, so the polls may only come down a bit. But I still think he'll need to drop out if this keeps up.

Th0r S1mpson
11-02-11, 05:42 PM
If he was never physically aggressive and did not have an affair, I don't see the wheels going anywhere.

kvrdave
11-02-11, 05:43 PM
You may not have noticed, but reports are that he was after our white women.

Th0r S1mpson
11-02-11, 06:09 PM
You may not have noticed, but reports are that he was after our white women.

How were they dressed?

TheBigDave
11-02-11, 06:37 PM
http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/5696/wheredawhitewomenat.jpg

Nesbit
11-02-11, 06:51 PM
By the time we get to the first primary, Gary Johnson and John Huntsman may be the only two republican candidates left.

Gary Johnson could sexually harass an entire pizza chain and we'd never hear about it :(

TheMovieman
11-02-11, 08:01 PM
Gary Johnson could sexually harass an entire pizza chain and we'd never hear about it :(

Who's this Gary Johnson guy people keep talking about?

JumpCutz
11-02-11, 08:11 PM
Cain's campaign is now blaming the Perry people for leaking this story.

Either way Cain is toast. :lol:

Th0r S1mpson
11-02-11, 09:23 PM
I'm still not understanding why people think these are campaign-ending allegations.

JumpCutz
11-02-11, 09:35 PM
I'm still not understanding why people think these are campaign-ending allegations.

These aren't campaign-ending allegations. The way he's reacted to the allegations show someone in over his head with his inability to come up with a definitive response, changing his story, misremembering, etc.

Artman
11-02-11, 10:49 PM
You may not have noticed, but reports are that he was after our white women.

Hey, it doesn't bother me in the slightest what his personal inclinations are, who hasn't hit on some full figured women from time to time? What should concern you (as Jump alluded to) is his incompetence in managing this situation. Now we have Mark "The Smoking Man" Bloc out there digging the hole deeper...

But here's the thing Dave, like the other candidates who never stood a chance, I don't think Cain was ever really serious about this. They run, they boost their recognition and following (except perhaps Santorum)...and they go on to whatever pursuits they were doing before. If Cain drops out tomorrow, he'll have tremendous success with his radio show or whatever else he wants to do.

Mammal
11-02-11, 11:16 PM
So... what does everyone think of Rick Perry?

The American Boris Yeltsin?

kvrdave
11-02-11, 11:26 PM
Hey, it doesn't bother me in the slightest what his personal inclinations are, who hasn't hit on some full figured women from time to time? What should concern you (as Jump alluded to) is his incompetence in managing this situation. Now we have Mark "The Smoking Man" Bloc out there digging the hole deeper...

But here's the thing Dave, like the other candidates who never stood a chance, I don't think Cain was ever really serious about this. They run, they boost their recognition and following (except perhaps Santorum)...and they go on to whatever pursuits they were doing before. If Cain drops out tomorrow, he'll have tremendous success with his radio show or whatever else he wants to do.

Man, I remember when it was refreshing that Obama wasn't an insider. I prefer a guy who reacts honestly rather than one that is super slick. But I'm jaded after the Obama experiment. I tend to think that either Perry or Romney would effectively be more of the same. I'm ready for someone different. I though Obama would be different. He was just another piece of shit politician.

If Cain is going to suck on his handling of allegations, I'd prefer that he do so now.

X
11-03-11, 12:05 AM
The American Boris Yeltsin?Not bad... :lol:

I know some people who did very well under Yeltsin (that's how I ended up working for criminals who were raping Russia) and I can't say I think it would be completely different with Perry. But then if he were running against Obama, maybe there would be something to rape if he won.

SuprVgeta
11-03-11, 12:35 AM
LOL @ people on the left condemning Herman Cain for ALLEGEDLY making advances on some women. Remember that Clinton was impeached for getting an old fashioned by a White House intern. I'm a Mitt Romney supporter but would vote for Herman Cain if he somehow gets our nomination (I don't think he will). I'm looking for individuals who have business experience and know how to manage/turnaround a company / our economy. It's really funny that a man who came from nothing and climbed the ladder to the top at a "main street level" can be demonized by people.

Sean O'Hara
11-03-11, 12:49 AM
LOL @ people on the left condemning Herman Cain for ALLEGEDLY making advances on some women. Remember that Clinton was impeached for getting an old fashioned by a White House intern.

LOL @ people on the right defending Herman Cain for allegedly sexually harassing women. Remember that Clinton was impeached for getting a consensual old fashioned by a White House Intern.

PhantomStranger
11-03-11, 12:51 AM
I'm still not understanding why people think these are campaign-ending allegations.
Allegations of this nature are an automatic disqualifier for national office as a Republican in 2011. A Democratic candidate could probably get away with these charges, their voter base views these matters much differently and is more tolerant of personal failings.

kvrdave
11-03-11, 01:23 AM
Allegations of this nature are an automatic disqualifier for national office as a Republican in 2011. A Democratic candidate could probably get away with these charges, their voter base views these matters much differently and is more tolerant of personal failings.

I think that is true in a good economy. I don't think that holds true in the current climate. People seem to think that Republicans are all about morals, values, etc., and that is certainly a part of it, but I think economics plays a big part. Could anyone see an a pro nuke, traditional marriage Democrat getting in back in '08?

Hell, did the cocaine allegations matter for Bush in either election? I just don't think it is nearly as big a deal as Democrats seem to think it is. The daughter with a child certainly hasn't hurt Palin's support with the fringe "moral" right.

Howie2000
11-03-11, 03:24 AM
Morning Joe got it right yesterday when he said the more worrisome thing is Cain is getting a free pass from the media for his willing ignorance on even basic foreign policy info. If Palin said something like Uzbekibekistanstan the liberal media would be all over that shit in a new york minute and beat the story to death.

Could care less whether this guy is banging his underlings 15 years ago.

TheMovieman
11-03-11, 03:40 AM
Hey, it doesn't bother me in the slightest what his personal inclinations are, who hasn't hit on some full figured women from time to time? What should concern you (as Jump alluded to) is his incompetence in managing this situation.

Exactly how I feel. His campaign apparatus is chaotic (last I heard/read, he's done more tours for his books than going to the early voting states). Let's say Cain gets the nomination, if they don't get their act together, what chance does he stand against Obama who might be bad at governing but he and his team knows how to campaign.

crazyronin
11-03-11, 05:33 AM
Remember that Clinton was impeached for getting a consensual old fashioned by a White House Intern.

Was that after his impeachment for committing perjury, or before?

logrus9
11-03-11, 08:07 AM
Remember that Clinton was impeached for getting a consensual old fashioned by a White House Intern.

Even funnier, adultery was still a crime on the books in DC when he did it. Why wasn't he charged with it?

Let's not bring up Paula Jones, Jennifer Flowers etc.

That being said, if he did harass these women, let him pay the price, but we need more information before we can draw a conclusion.

classicman2
11-03-11, 08:10 AM
Morning Joe got it right yesterday when he said the more worrisome thing is Cain is getting a free pass from the media for his willing ignorance on even basic foreign policy info. If Palin said something like Uzbekibekistanstan the liberal media would be all over that shit in a new york minute and beat the story to death.

Could care less whether this guy is banging his underlings 15 years ago.

Joe also says Cain is not qualified to be president. Cain was born in this country. He has attained the age of 35 -I think. As far as I know - he's not a felon. I don't know what qualifications Joe Scarborough may have for a person to be qualified. I do know what qualfications that The Constitution has for a person to be be president.

CRM114
11-03-11, 09:06 AM
If he was never physically aggressive and did not have an affair, I don't see the wheels going anywhere.

Some dude from the National Restaurant Assoc made a comment yesterday that if the woman with the confidentiality agreement's story gets out - the Cain campaign will be over.

Too bad. The guy is entertaining.

CRM114
11-03-11, 09:13 AM
LOL @ people on the left condemning Herman Cain for ALLEGEDLY making advances on some women. Remember that Clinton was impeached for getting an old fashioned by a White House intern. I'm a Mitt Romney supporter but would vote for Herman Cain if he somehow gets our nomination (I don't think he will). I'm looking for individuals who have business experience and know how to manage/turnaround a company / our economy. It's really funny that a man who came from nothing and climbed the ladder to the top at a "main street level" can be demonized by people.

First of all, it is your fellow Repubs who are sabotaging Cain's campaign. Democrats are just enjoying the humor. Don't blame this on Democrats.

Second, Clinton had consensual sex. Herman Cain is accused of sexual harassment. I'm really confused and troubled by the fact that Repubs can't see the difference.

Thirdly, it is NOT acceptable for a married CEO or any chief executive to go around hitting on young women at a conference. And if they do, it should not be unexpected for some women to completely offended and sickened by such an advance. These guys go on such power trips that they believe they can do anything. Clinton did it but he survived. Can Cain survive? We shall see.

CRM114
11-03-11, 09:14 AM
I think that is true in a good economy. I don't think that holds true in the current climate. People seem to think that Republicans are all about morals, values, etc., and that is certainly a part of it, but I think economics plays a big part. Could anyone see an a pro nuke, traditional marriage Democrat getting in back in '08?

Hell, did the cocaine allegations matter for Bush in either election? I just don't think it is nearly as big a deal as Democrats seem to think it is. The daughter with a child certainly hasn't hurt Palin's support with the fringe "moral" right.

The current climate? You mean the one where Obama's approval numbers are growing and he is shown to beat every single Republican candidate?

:lol:

dork
11-03-11, 09:32 AM
Joe also says Cain is not qualified to be president. Cain was born in this country. He has attained the age of 35 -I think. As far as I know - he's not a felon. I don't know what qualifications Joe Scarborough may have for a person to be qualified. I do know what qualfications that The Constitution has for a person to be be president.
Those are all good points. My guess is that Scarborough may have been saying that Cain is not qualified for the presidency because he is an utter clown. Though I suppose you'll counter that your research shows he doesn't have a rubber nose or comically oversized shoes.

starman9000
11-03-11, 09:33 AM
:lol:

Tracer Bullet
11-03-11, 09:35 AM
My team is doing better than your team, guys!

arminius
11-03-11, 09:41 AM
I really don't believe there is much if any difference between the Dems and Repubs. However, I have to say the current crop of Repubs for prez are coming across as escapees from clown college. They're like a troop of nincompoops who are trying to smear each other even though they are supposed to be on the same team. The moronosphere is getting overpopulated.

Tracer Bullet
11-03-11, 09:45 AM
I really don't believe there is much if any difference between the Dems and Repubs.

Oh, there's a difference. They have different scripts to appeal to two broad segments of the population. Once they get into office, they act the same, they just give different justifications for those actions.

CRM114
11-03-11, 09:55 AM
Those are all good points. My guess is that Scarborough may have been saying that Cain is not qualified for the presidency because he is an utter clown. Though I suppose you'll counter that your research shows he doesn't have a rubber nose or comically oversized shoes.

I believe classicman2's feeling would be why can't clowns serve as President as long as they a US citizen and 35 years old.

clappj
11-03-11, 09:56 AM
The current climate? You mean the one where Obama's approval numbers are growing?

How's the weather there in Imaginaryland, on the Quinnipiac University campus?

*It’s important to note that Quinnipiac’s numbers are slightly higher than those in other national polls. RealClearPolitics.com, which averages dozens of surveys, pegs Obama’s approval rating at 44.6 percent and his disapproval rating at 50 percent. The president’s approval-disapproval rating was also slightly worse in polls from Rasmussen (44-55 percent) and Gallup (43-50 percent).

CRM114
11-03-11, 09:57 AM
Oh, there's a difference. They have different scripts to appeal to two broad segments of the population. Once they get into office, they act the same, they just give different justifications for those actions.

Other than things like withdrawing from Iraq, vanquishing North African dictators without a solider on the ground, and ending DADT. Yeah, new Bush same as the old Bush.

clappj
11-03-11, 10:03 AM
vanquishing North African dictators without a solider on the ground

:lol:

Tracer Bullet
11-03-11, 10:03 AM
Other than things like withdrawing from Iraq, vanquishing North African dictators without a solider on the ground, and ending DADT. Yeah, new Bush same as the old Bush.

Oh sure, stuff like that is fine, and both sides will throw shit like that at their bases to distract from the real business of government.

But what is the functional difference between, say, Bush's prescription drug bill and Obama's healthcare bill? They were both massive giveaways to the insurance companies.

CRM114
11-03-11, 10:13 AM
Obviously, both parties are run by corporatist agendas but to say they are exactly the same is being purposefully ignorant of a lot of important issues.

Tracer Bullet
11-03-11, 10:14 AM
Obviously, both parties are run by corporatist agendas but to say they are exactly the same is being purposefully ignorant of a lot of important issues.

Such as?

CRM114
11-03-11, 10:15 AM
I just named three. You referred to them as "shit" thrown at the base.

But take social security and Medicare, for instance.

Tracer Bullet
11-03-11, 10:22 AM
Obviously, both parties are run by corporatist agendas but to say they are exactly the same is being purposefully ignorant of a lot of important issues.

I just named three. You referred to them as "shit" thrown at the base.

But take social security and Medicare, for instance.

Also shit to throw at the base. The scary Republicans are going to take away your Social Security checks!!! And then the Republicans get to pretend that they would abolish Social Security. When in reality they would never do that, as it's a great election tool.

CRM114
11-03-11, 10:25 AM
Sure, and corporations would never end pensions and give billions in 401K fees to Wall St. Wall St certainly wouldn't want that Social Security trust fund. :lol:

Tracer Bullet
11-03-11, 10:31 AM
Sure, and corporations would never end pensions and give billions in 401K fees to Wall St. Wall St certainly wouldn't want that Social Security trust fund. :lol:

If you think the Democrats would stop that, you're pretty clueless. They are many ways to mask that that the majority of Americans would never pick up on.

CRM114
11-03-11, 10:44 AM
OK, I'll vote for Ron Paul. :mad:

Tracer Bullet
11-03-11, 10:56 AM
OK, I'll vote for Ron Paul. :mad:

Better than voting for Obama again.

shadowhawk2020
11-03-11, 11:01 AM
OK, I'll vote for Ron Paul. :mad:

So you're the one...

Venusian
11-03-11, 11:05 AM
Sure, and corporations would never end pensions and give billions in 401K fees to Wall St. Wall St certainly wouldn't want that Social Security trust fund. :lol:

where do you think pension fees go to?

CRM114
11-03-11, 11:12 AM
What pension fees are you talking about?

Venusian
11-03-11, 11:18 AM
What pension fees are you talking about?

the cost to run a pension program

CRM114
11-03-11, 11:20 AM
To the salaries of those running it? Are you equating pension plans with 401(k) accounts in Wall St banks?

Venusian
11-03-11, 11:25 AM
To the salaries of those running it? Are you equating pension plans with 401(k) accounts in Wall St banks?

I'm saying that pensions aren't fee free.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/f4a8756c-e5f4-11e0-b196-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1cekrpfu7

Tracer Bullet
11-03-11, 11:27 AM
Also Wall Street always made money off pensions, because pension fund managers would buy bonds and securities and things to fund the pension plan. That's not the problem.

CRM114
11-03-11, 11:27 AM
England?

Venusian
11-03-11, 11:29 AM
England?

Google and you'll find U.S. examples too.

Venusian
11-03-11, 11:29 AM
Also Wall Street always made money off pensions, because pension fund managers would buy bonds and securities and things to fund the pension plan. That's not the problem.

That was my point. WS makes money off of pensions too.

SuprVgeta
11-03-11, 11:32 AM
The current climate? You mean the one where Obama's approval numbers are growing and he is shown to beat every single Republican candidate?

:lol:
Not sure which poll numbers you are looking at. RasmussenReports (one of the most accurate polls out their historically) has had a generic Republican beating Obama since early may

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/generic_presidential_ballot/election_2012_generic_presidential_ballot

CRM114
11-03-11, 11:33 AM
Do Pensions Beat 401(k)s? (http://www.fool.com/personal-finance/retirement/2006/12/22/do-pensions-beat-401ks.aspx)
.
.
.
A recent study by the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College examined whether employees with defined contribution plans fared better than their counterparts with defined benefit plans. Unfortunately, the results suggest that 401(k) plan participants aren't doing as well as employees who have access to traditional defined benefit plans.
.
.
.
Another difference was that while defined benefit plans tended to invest mostly through individual stocks and fixed-income securities, defined contribution plan participants tended to have a much higher percentage of assets in mutual funds. Because the use of mutual funds adds a layer of management fees that direct stock and bond investors don't have to pay, the study looked at the question of whether higher fees for 401(k) plan participants accounted for the lower return. Since fund expense ratios for stocks often exceed 1%, it's reasonable to conclude that these fees reduced investor performance.

dork
11-03-11, 11:40 AM
RasmussenReports (one of the most accurate polls out their historically)

They sure are!


http://www.538host.com/pollacc1.png


http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/rasmussen-polls-were-biased-and-inaccurate-quinnipiac-surveyusa-performed-strongly/

classicman2
11-03-11, 11:43 AM
Those are all good points. My guess is that Scarborough may have been saying that Cain is not qualified for the presidency because he is an utter clown. Though I suppose you'll counter that your research shows he doesn't have a rubber nose or comically oversized shoes.

No - I counter with the Constitutional Argument - a little more important than what some TV personality whose primary purpose is to increase the ratings of his show.

Tracer Bullet
11-03-11, 11:43 AM
401ks were sold to a gullible populace intent on "taking control" of their destinies and stupid shit like that. Meanwhile Wall Street stacked the deck against 401ks in a variety of ways that wasn't possible when retirement accounts were being closely watched by a fund manager who was being paid a salary to ensure the health of the pension.

Of course Wall Street figured out how to screw the pensions as well by selling them toxic securities disguised as AAA.

Venusian
11-03-11, 12:05 PM
401ks were sold to a gullible populace intent on "taking control" of their destinies and stupid shit like that. Meanwhile Wall Street stacked the deck against 401ks in a variety of ways that wasn't possible when retirement accounts were being closely watched by a fund manager who was being paid a salary to ensure the health of the pension.

Of course Wall Street figured out how to screw the pensions as well by selling them toxic securities disguised as AAA.

In what ways is my 401k stacked against me?

Venusian
11-03-11, 12:08 PM
Btw, I think WS does a lot of shady stuff like high frequency trading. I just don't think that a pension plan is this magic vehicle that is isolated from market shifts

Tracer Bullet
11-03-11, 12:35 PM
In what ways is my 401k stacked against me?

1) The vast majority of people are not conversant enough in financial instruments to invest wisely or effectively
2) 401ks carry higher fees than pension plans
3) The stocks that you invest in in 401ks are not the same deals that traders have access to
4) Wall Street has been doing some serious machinations of the stock market etc for decades which has made the market extremely volatile

X
11-03-11, 12:47 PM
401ks were sold to a gullible populace intent on "taking control" of their destinies and stupid shit like that.As opposed to the government having full control of their destinies?

You're always free to save and invest outside of tax-free money.

Tracer Bullet
11-03-11, 12:59 PM
As opposed to the government having full control of their destinies?

You're always free to save and invest outside of tax-free money.

No, as opposed to pensions.

Not everything is about the government, but nice job trying to make this into a left vs. right issue.

X
11-03-11, 01:03 PM
No, as opposed to pensions. You do know what happened to private pensions when companies went out of business, don't you?

And how are those state pensions working out?

Tracer Bullet
11-03-11, 01:07 PM
You do know what happened to private pensions when companies went out of business, don't you?

So the answer was to wholesale hand over retirement planning to Wall Street? That's quite the leap.

And how are those state pensions working out?

Why don't you ask the Wall Streeters who fraudulently sold pension funds toxic securities that were disguised AAA?

Th0r S1mpson
11-03-11, 01:08 PM
Yeah, can't say my personal experience with pensions is very good. My dad worked for United Airlines and had a mandatory retirement age, just after his pension was taken away. They are a sweet deal unless they vanish.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/may2005/unit-m13.shtml

State pensions seem like the best deal of all, but they aren't so good for California.

X
11-03-11, 01:09 PM
So the answer was to wholesale hand over retirement planning to Wall Street? That's quite the leap.I'm anxiously awaiting your solution.

Tracer Bullet
11-03-11, 01:10 PM
I'm anxiously awaiting your solution.

Asking for solutions from critics is the laziness rebuttal there is, and it also indicates that you have no answer to their criticism.

X
11-03-11, 01:12 PM
Asking for solutions from critics is the laziness rebuttal there is, and it also indicates that you have no answer to their criticism.Criticizing without proposing solutions is an angry waste of time.

Tracer Bullet
11-03-11, 01:12 PM
Criticizing without proposing solutions is an angry waste of time.

This is possibly--possibly--the stupidest fucking thing I've ever read on this forum.

Th0r S1mpson
11-03-11, 01:18 PM
Criticizing without proposing solutions is an angry waste of time.
This is possibly--possibly--the stupidest fucking thing I've ever read on this forum.

Well what should we do about it?

X
11-03-11, 01:20 PM
This is possibly--possibly--the stupidest fucking thing I've ever read on this forum.Where did the Freedom Riders post go? I think they had some suggestions for change.

Growing anger with no alternatives isn't helping you or your case. I've proposed several alternatives for saving for retirement. If I couldn't come up with any I sure couldn't say the ones in place were wrong. How can I be angry with the status quo if I don't know that there could be a better way?

Tracer Bullet
11-03-11, 01:23 PM
Where did the Freedom Riders post go? I think they had some suggestions for change.

I felt like changing it up a bit--I used the Freedom Riders example yesterday in the OWS thread. Or maybe it was another thread, who can keep track.

Venusian
11-03-11, 01:33 PM
1) The vast majority of people are not conversant enough in financial instruments to invest wisely or effectively
2) 401ks carry higher fees than pension plans
3) The stocks that you invest in in 401ks are not the same deals that traders have access to
4) Wall Street has been doing some serious machinations of the stock market etc for decades which has made the market extremely volatile

Many pensions invest in stocks. They face the same issues as 3 and 4 above.

dork
11-03-11, 01:35 PM
I felt like changing it up a bit--I used the Freedom Riders example yesterday in the OWS thread. Or maybe it was another thread, who can keep track.
That can't be right... the OWS thread is about religion. This is the thread for discussing the finance industry.

JasonF
11-03-11, 01:45 PM
I'm anxiously awaiting your solution.

For a start, you can require companies to fully fund their pension plans, insulate money set aside for pensions from the rest of the company's assets, and impose severe criminal punishment for corporate executives who raid their company's pension funds.

X
11-03-11, 01:54 PM
For a start, you can require companies to fully fund their pension plans, insulate money set aside for pensions from the rest of the company's assets, and impose severe criminal punishment for corporate executives who raid their company's pension funds.Now those are some rational, thought-out solutions. And they've already been implemented. And that's probably why you don't see many companies offer pensions anymore.

States are needing to restructure pensions as well because they can't go on the way they have been much longer. So better solutions are still needed.

CRM114
11-03-11, 01:58 PM
In what ways is my 401k stacked against me?

You must have missed this discussion we had a couple weeks ago.

You are losing a huge percentage of your savings and potential growth to hidden fees.

401(k) Fees Can Shave Thousands From Nest Egg (http://www.npr.org/2011/06/09/137061988/401-k-fees-can-shave-thousands-from-nest-egg)

Shining a Light On Murky 401(k) Fees (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704756804575608431830147998.html)

dork
11-03-11, 02:00 PM
So better solutions are still needed.

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/8/2010/05/500x_custom_1274916061534_logrun.jpg

CRM114
11-03-11, 02:02 PM
And how are those state pensions working out?

They'd be working out fine if they were left alone and agencies paid in their matching funds when required.

CRM114
11-03-11, 02:06 PM
Where did the Freedom Riders post go? I think they had some suggestions for change.

Growing anger with no alternatives isn't helping you or your case. I've proposed several alternatives for saving for retirement. If I couldn't come up with any I sure couldn't say the ones in place were wrong. How can I be angry with the status quo if I don't know that there could be a better way?

Your "solution" would work with people who had post-tax money to invest and people had have the wherewithal to understand the markets. This "solution" tells me you live an isolated existence with no exposure to regular, low income people. It's typical.

arminius
11-03-11, 02:08 PM
Companies did not used to be rode into the ground for short term gain. I remember when Drexel-Burnham went down. We were amazed that all these assholes were bailing out with golden parachutes while the company was going under. Now that's sop. It seems to me they are no longer run to provide anybody anything other than the few their ill gotten gains. Most people do not have the financial knowledge or proclivity for finance to manage investments. People want to work for a fair wage and an earned retirement. I don't think most modern corporations or most governments are interested in this. The ones that will survive are.

X
11-03-11, 02:09 PM
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/8/2010/05/500x_custom_1274916061534_logrun.jpgNow if there were only a solution for food shortages as well...

sracer
11-03-11, 03:21 PM
Where did the Freedom Riders post go? I think they had some suggestions for change.

Growing anger with no alternatives isn't helping you or your case. I've proposed several alternatives for saving for retirement. If I couldn't come up with any I sure couldn't say the ones in place were wrong. How can I be angry with the status quo if I don't know that there could be a better way?
:whofart:

The awareness of the existence of a better alternative is a prerequisite for knowing that the current option is wrong (deficient)?

That can't be right. How is ANY progress made in society unless the deficiency of the status quo is identified first? Somebody has to make the statement, "there HAS to be a better way" in order for things to change. But you seem to be implying that the better way needs to be known before that statement can be made.

X
11-03-11, 03:41 PM
:whofart:

The awareness of the existence of a better alternative is a prerequisite for knowing that the current option is wrong (deficient)?

That can't be right. How is ANY progress made in society unless the deficiency of the status quo is identified first? Somebody has to make the statement, "there HAS to be a better way" in order for things to change. But you seem to be implying that the better way needs to be known before that statement can be made.Oh, you can say there has to be a better way. But just complaining about it without even a hint that a better solution is in mind is a waste of time.

I could complain about having to eat. It takes time, costs money, makes you fat, etc. Famines wouldn't exist without that need. But I have no clue as to a solution. So I don't complain about having to eat.

Progress is made by recognizing the deficiency and then at least formulating a possible solution. Not by the kind of complaining I've been seeing here.

Navinabob
11-03-11, 03:52 PM
The worth in complaining is in opening the dialog up so that a group can come up with a solution. Saying something is broken is just the first step in a chain that ultimately leads to a solution. This is especially true surrounding politics where our elected officials represent the will of the people... which usually just happens to be a great number of people complaining.

X
11-03-11, 04:00 PM
Ok, then I'm starting to complain about having to eat. Who's with me?

We're gathering outside McDonald's next Wednesday.

Superboy
11-03-11, 05:22 PM
Growing anger with no alternatives isn't helping you or your case. I've proposed several alternatives for saving for retirement. If I couldn't come up with any I sure couldn't say the ones in place were wrong. How can I be angry with the status quo if I don't know that there could be a better way?

Yeah, if I were as brilliant and well educated as you, yeah, I could say that. But since i'm not, i'm just going to have to be open to other people's ideas.

Superboy
11-03-11, 05:38 PM
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec11/hermancain_10-31.html

If China gets nuclear capability, will they share it with Ubeki-beki-beki-bekistan?

It's Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan.

Don't you know ANYTHING?!

Superboy
11-03-11, 05:40 PM
Yeah, can't say my personal experience with pensions is very good. My dad worked for United Airlines and had a mandatory retirement age, just after his pension was taken away. They are a sweet deal unless they vanish.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/may2005/unit-m13.shtml

State pensions seem like the best deal of all, but they aren't so good for California.

My personal experiences haven't been good either. I liked getting money from my job until I was mugged, and then I had to really think about whether or not I wanted money.

Th0r S1mpson
11-03-11, 05:49 PM
My personal experiences haven't been good either. I liked getting money from my job until I was mugged, and then I had to really think about whether or not I wanted money.

Close... more like if you were mugged and lost your retirement account, you might rethink trusting your wallet as a secure place to keep it.

X
11-03-11, 06:05 PM
Yeah, if I were as brilliant and well educated as you, yeah, I could say that. But since i'm not, i'm just going to have to be open to other people's ideas.Good, because using other people's ideas is fine. As long as you know there are other viable ideas. Education does help in that area.

Superboy
11-03-11, 07:33 PM
Close... more like if you were mugged and lost your retirement account, you might rethink trusting your wallet as a secure place to keep it.

The point is, it's a crime that your father lost his retirement account. They didn't just vanish in the wind. Companies do this a lot, actually, which has sorta besmirched the reputation of pensions.

kvrdave
11-03-11, 07:38 PM
The point is, it's a crime that your father lost his retirement account. They didn't just vanish in the wind. Companies do this a lot, actually, which has sorta besmirched the reputation of pensions.

Often it is done with the consent of the union because it is either that or go tits up. That happened at an aluminum plant that was here. There is no free lunch.

Dr Mabuse
11-03-11, 07:41 PM
So pensions or retirement accounts are 'free lunches'?

kvrdave
11-03-11, 07:54 PM
Okay, there's no suck thing as a free lockbox. :lol:

kvrdave
11-03-11, 07:54 PM
Unless it is inside another lockbox.

Jason
11-03-11, 08:23 PM
Okay, there's no suck thing as a free lockbox. :lol:

but there is suck thing as a three lock box

http://static.rhap.com/img/170x170/4/5/8/7/257854_170x170.jpg

Th0r S1mpson
11-03-11, 08:25 PM
Pension love you long time!

grundle
11-04-11, 02:07 AM
If this is what Herman Cain really said, then I don't see what the big deal is:


http://www.therightscoop.com/herman-cains-inappropriate-comment-revealed/

Herman Cain’s inappropriate comment revealed?

Nov 3, 2011

The Iowa radio host Steve Deace revealed on October 3rd and awkward comment that Herman Cain made while at his radio station. Via Des Moines Register:

On Monday, Deace posted a message on his Facebook page that Cain had “said things to both of my female staffers that at best are professionally awkward if not inappropriate over the last several months.” …

On Monday, Deace told The Des Moines Register he didn’t want to talk publicly about what Cain did that made the women present at his radio interviews uncomfortable.

“I have instructed our employees not to address the situation specifically,” Deace said Monday. “At this point I see no need in dragging them into this individually.” …

During his Oct. 3 broadcast in Iowa, Deace mentioned that Cain made a comment to a woman who was there to report on the radio interview for another news agency.

“Cain said, ‘Darling, do you mind doctoring my tea for me?’” Deace said.

Deace told the Register last month that he believes Cain was talking about adding honey and lemon, but that it was an awkward moment.

Superboy
11-04-11, 02:11 AM
Often it is done with the consent of the union because it is either that or go tits up. That happened at an aluminum plant that was here. There is no free lunch.

Yeah, and I can imagine that being representative of businesses nationwide that robbed people of their pensions to make huge payouts to corporate executives?

JasonF
11-04-11, 08:32 AM
If this is what Herman Cain really said, then I don't see what the big deal is:


http://www.therightscoop.com/herman-cains-inappropriate-comment-revealed/

Herman Cain’s inappropriate comment revealed?

Nov 3, 2011

The Iowa radio host Steve Deace revealed on October 3rd and awkward comment that Herman Cain made while at his radio station. Via Des Moines Register:

On Monday, Deace posted a message on his Facebook page that Cain had “said things to both of my female staffers that at best are professionally awkward if not inappropriate over the last several months.” …

On Monday, Deace told The Des Moines Register he didn’t want to talk publicly about what Cain did that made the women present at his radio interviews uncomfortable.

“I have instructed our employees not to address the situation specifically,” Deace said Monday. “At this point I see no need in dragging them into this individually.” …

During his Oct. 3 broadcast in Iowa, Deace mentioned that Cain made a comment to a woman who was there to report on the radio interview for another news agency.

“Cain said, ‘Darling, do you mind doctoring my tea for me?’” Deace said.

Deace told the Register last month that he believes Cain was talking about adding honey and lemon, but that it was an awkward moment.

That story is not exactly written in English so I can't be sure, but it seems to be talking about an awkward comment that Mr. Cain made a month ago, not any of the instances in which he was sued for sexual harassment. So I'm not sure how you can read the article and conclude that there was no big deal in the sexual harassment incidents.

Josh-da-man
11-04-11, 10:02 AM
Cain [told] a woman he found a pubic hair on his Koch brother... (http://twitter.com/#!/billmaher/status/132190545182330880)

CRM114
11-04-11, 10:07 AM
Close... more like if you were mugged and lost your retirement account, you might rethink trusting your wallet as a secure place to keep it.

And that would be a pension. I know exactly how much I will get and I know I will get it until the day I die. I can only hope those trusting their money to a 401k will not lose it all in a market collapse or bad choices. And hopefully it's enough to cover ALL of their retirement years.

CRM114
11-04-11, 10:18 AM
Often it is done with the consent of the union because it is either that or go tits up. That happened at an aluminum plant that was here. There is no free lunch.

But it wasn't going to go "tits up" because of the pension plan. It was because the business was mismanaged and the pension plan was mismanaged. I know the companies try and paint it that way so that they can reap higher profits to give to their shareholders, but pensions causing the decline of a business is just silly unless the fundamental rules of actuarial science have changed.

Th0r S1mpson
11-04-11, 10:39 AM
And that would be a pension. I know exactly how much I will get and I know I will get it until the day I die.

Yeah, I know that's how it usually works. It's how it should work. But like I said, my opinion has been soured by very real circumstances. Believing the above led, in part, to otherwise poor financial decisions and when the pension vanished, there was nothing left.

shadowhawk2020
11-04-11, 10:45 AM
Now those are some rational, thought-out solutions. And they've already been implemented. And that's probably why you don't see many companies offer pensions anymore.

States are needing to restructure pensions as well because they can't go on the way they have been much longer. So better solutions are still needed.

Really?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/15/business/15nasa.html?pagewanted=all

CRM114
11-04-11, 10:47 AM
Luckily, most public employee pensions are guaranteed by statute. This is why public employees will fight tooth and nail before this benefit is taken away.

shadowhawk2020
11-04-11, 10:49 AM
Now those are some rational, thought-out solutions. And they've already been implemented. And that's probably why you don't see many companies offer pensions anymore.



Really?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/15/business/15nasa.html?pagewanted=all

X
11-04-11, 10:52 AM
Really?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/15/business/15nasa.html?pagewanted=allReally.

http://www.usnews.com/mobile/blogs/planning-to-retire/2011/8/12/traditional-pensions-hit-record-low.html

shadowhawk2020
11-04-11, 11:43 AM
Really.

http://www.usnews.com/mobile/blogs/planning-to-retire/2011/8/12/traditional-pensions-hit-record-low.html

I was talking about the And they've already been implemented. And that's probably why you don't see many companies offer pensions anymore.


Companies haven't been forced to fully fund their pensions yet... Or if they have changed the laws, there isn't anyone/anything to enforce that they are maintaining their plans.

CRM114
11-04-11, 11:53 AM
It's all about maximizing return to the shareholder at the expense of the worker. It used to be that companies maximized shareholder return by growing the business and gaining efficiencies. Now, companies can accelerate that profitability by cutting human resources expenses and convince the worker that it's being done in their interests.

Th0r S1mpson
11-04-11, 01:59 PM
Anyone believing that these allegations, or his response thus far, are the end of Cain's campaign... the latest polls demonstrate otherwise. Wheels still on.

kvrdave
11-04-11, 02:07 PM
Anyone believing that these allegations, or his response thus far, are the end of Cain's campaign... the latest polls demonstrate otherwise. Wheels still on.

Has anyone actually had a "victim" step forward, or the actual details of the investigation been exposed, or the size of the settlement, etc? Hard to imagine anyone really giving a shit if none of those things happen.

All I seem to hear is that Cain doesn't handle it like a polished politician would, or similar words.

wmansir
11-04-11, 02:11 PM
Lawrence O'Donnell urging the Occupy DC group (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matt-hadro/2011/11/04/larry-odonnell-calls-occupy-dc-bring-firestorm-natl-restaurant-associati) to start "Occupying" the National Restaurant Ass. and boycott it's sponsor companies to pressure them to release the Cain accusers from their confidentiality agreements.

Is the issue relevant to the Occupy movement, or is O'Donnell just trying to co-opt the movement for partisan reasons?

On the one hand Cain has made disparaging comments about the movement, but on the other, one of the organizations O'Donnell wants them to boycott is Starbucks.

dork
11-04-11, 02:13 PM
Anyone believing that these allegations, or his response thus far, are the end of Cain's campaign... the latest polls demonstrate otherwise. Wheels still on.
I suspect that if you have already decided to vote for a buffoon then any displays of buffoonery only go to reassure you that you've made the right choice.

Th0r S1mpson
11-04-11, 02:17 PM
I suspect that if you have already decided to vote for a buffoon then any displays of buffoonery only go to reassure you that you've made the right choice.

Har har.

CRM114
11-04-11, 02:19 PM
Lawrence O'Donnell urging the Occupy DC group (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matt-hadro/2011/11/04/larry-odonnell-calls-occupy-dc-bring-firestorm-natl-restaurant-associati) to start "Occupying" the National Restaurant Ass. and boycott it's sponsor companies to pressure them to release the Cain accusers from their confidentiality agreements.

Is the issue relevant to the Occupy movement, or is O'Donnell just trying to co-opt the movement for partisan reasons?

On the one hand Cain has made disparaging comments about the movement, but on the other, one of the organizations O'Donnell wants them to boycott is Starbucks.

I think Lawrence O'Donnell just has it out for Cain ever since he was on the show. O'Donnell pretty much destroyed his 999 plan on the air. O'Donnell has promised to pay all legal expenses for anyone coming forward and breaking the confidentiality agreement (because he knows the NRA will never sue them if they do).

He challenged Donald Trump last week in their Twitter war that he was not a billionaire and that he was lying about his wealth and begged Trump to sue him so the truth would be known. Trump did not sue him.

shadowhawk2020
11-04-11, 02:19 PM
Anyone think Cain didn't really want to be President? He decided to run to sell his book and get some speaking gigs.

Then he gets to the top of the polls and thinks "I really don't want to be President" so he says a bunch of really stupid shit. That only seems to make him more popular, so he brings out his own sexual harrasement alligations. And so far that isn't working either.

CRM114
11-04-11, 02:20 PM
I suspect that if you have already decided to vote for a buffoon then any displays of buffoonery only go to reassure you that you've made the right choice.

Well, we do need someone with the fortitude to stand up to China and it's aspirations of developing a nuclear weapon.

dork
11-04-11, 02:23 PM
Anyone think Cain didn't really want to be President? He decided to run to sell his book and get some speaking gigs.

Of course. He's like a way hotter Palin.

CRM114
11-04-11, 02:37 PM
Cain's job was a motivational speaker. He had plenty of gigs. Now he just increased his price.

kvrdave
11-04-11, 03:16 PM
Anyone think Cain didn't really want to be President? He decided to run to sell his book and get some speaking gigs.

Then he gets to the top of the polls and thinks "I really don't want to be President" so he says a bunch of really stupid shit. That only seems to make him more popular, so he brings out his own sexual harrasement alligations. And so far that isn't working either.

According to CBS the confidentiality agreement was not signed by Cain and it looks like it was possibly reached after he wasn't even with them anymore. He may not know much about it. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57318500-503544/cain-did-not-sign-settlement-accusers-lawyer-says/%20http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504564_162-57318500-504564/cain-did-not-sign-settlement-accusers-lawyer-says/

kvrdave
11-04-11, 03:17 PM
I suspect that if you have already decided to vote for a buffoon then any displays of buffoonery only go to reassure you that you've made the right choice.

Obama 2012 will certainly put that to the test.

Artman
11-04-11, 03:20 PM
Anyone believing that these allegations, or his response thus far, are the end of Cain's campaign... the latest polls demonstrate otherwise. Wheels still on.

Give it a few weeks for this to play out.

LurkerDan
11-04-11, 03:22 PM
I'm beginning to get an inkling of an idea that maybe, just maybe, kvrdave is a little dissatisfied with Obama. I could be wrong though.

kvrdave
11-04-11, 03:34 PM
I'm beginning to get an inkling of an idea that maybe, just maybe, kvrdave is a little dissatisfied with Obama. I could be wrong though.

:lol: He hurt me.

Superboy
11-04-11, 07:25 PM
I don't know about you, but i'm going to throw my vote away again!

classicman2
11-04-11, 09:57 PM
Anyone putting any stock in what Lawrence O'Donnell says - well, I feel for them.

Th0r S1mpson
11-04-11, 10:20 PM
Give it a few weeks for this to play out.

That's what I've been trying to tell you. :lol:

SuprVgeta
11-04-11, 11:50 PM
Lawrence O'Donnell urging the Occupy DC group (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matt-hadro/2011/11/04/larry-odonnell-calls-occupy-dc-bring-firestorm-natl-restaurant-associati) to start "Occupying" the National Restaurant Ass. and boycott it's sponsor companies to pressure them to release the Cain accusers from their confidentiality agreements.

Is the issue relevant to the Occupy movement, or is O'Donnell just trying to co-opt the movement for partisan reasons?

On the one hand Cain has made disparaging comments about the movement, but on the other, one of the organizations O'Donnell wants them to boycott is Starbucks.
LOL Lawrence O'Donnell is a bigger douche bag than Keith Olbermann. I didn't think that was humanly possible.

Th0r S1mpson
11-05-11, 12:16 AM
Nobody has requested occupying the National Restaurant Ass since Hermain Cain was there.

MoviePage
11-05-11, 04:11 AM
Not sure which poll numbers you are looking at. RasmussenReports (one of the most accurate polls out their historically) has had a generic Republican beating Obama since early may

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/generic_presidential_ballot/election_2012_generic_presidential_ballot

Well in that case, I can't wait for Mr./Mrs. Generic Republican to enter this race!

sracer
11-05-11, 12:24 PM
Has anyone actually had a "victim" step forward, or the actual details of the investigation been exposed, or the size of the settlement, etc? Hard to imagine anyone really giving a shit if none of those things happen.

All I seem to hear is that Cain doesn't handle it like a polished politician would, or similar words.
Rachel Maddow had a segment on her show last night about Herman Cain that was pretty witty... the gist, that Cain is just play acting the role of a candidate and not really serious about running.

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kvrdave
11-05-11, 12:29 PM
I suppose it could be, but I doubt it. I always felt that Obama was put into the race only to get him to gain experience. I figured the DNC knew he didn't have the experience (as did he), but figured it would get him publicity to run in the future. Suddenly it looked like he could win, and Obama decided it could be his time. If that was the case for Cain as well, I'd be okay with it. I think Clinton was kind of in that boat as well the during his first run. It's probably true of most candidates except for those that are just sure this is their time, etc. (Romney or Perry, or Hillary in the last election).

Th0r S1mpson
11-05-11, 12:45 PM
So after it was said Cain's accuser wants the agreement lifted to speak up, it's lifted and now she doesn't want to speak up. Or are these two different people? It's all so confusing.

wmansir
11-05-11, 12:48 PM
Here's an article with the latest details AFAIK.

ABC News Link (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/herman-cain-accuser-anita-hill/story?id=14870308)

I thought this was interesting:
But the incident that prompted the woman's complaint, which took place at a restaurant in Crystal City, Virginia, according to a former pollster for the NRA, was much more serious.

Oklahoma political consultant Chris Wilson talked about it on KTOK radio Wednesday.

"She was a very lower level staffer I think she was maybe two years out of college and this all occurred at a restaurant in Crystal City and everybody was very aware of it," said Wilson. " I don't want to be drawn into it specifically, but if she comes out and talks about it, it's like I said, it'll probably be the end of his campaign." Wilson currently works for a Rick Perry political action committee.

You have someone working for the Perry campaign saying that he witnessed Cain do something that if it became public would end his campaign, but he won't say what it was. I can understand confirming the accusations, but to advance the accusations further while refusing to detail them is sleazy.

Also, it appears that ABC news knows the identity of the two women, but isn't pursuing them. Does the media rape shield now extend to the sexually harassed?

kvrdave
11-05-11, 01:04 PM
Yeah when a Perry guy says there is something that might end someone else's campaign, I'd treat it as nothing.

Th0r S1mpson
11-05-11, 01:27 PM
Polls are showing that the accusations alone are not taking Cain out.

Cain will finally be introducing his wife to the public. This will not be a Spitzer moment (as some will try to spin it) where his wife stands by embarrassingly in the wake of an affair. This will be a woman devoted to her husband years after these incidents took place.

The American public will realize that if this woman can stand by him through whatever the incidents were, perhaps we can too. Perhaps the problems this nation faces are important enough that we can focus on what a candidate will do, rather than unrelated things he did more than 10 years ago.

America will believe these things, and JasonF, longing to remain a true American, will get behind Cain to unseat the monster in the white house who has destroyed everything America stands for despite looking pretty fine in a bathing suit. A little too fine, in fact. The muscles, the moisture... I digress. America will not be distracted from the task at hand for more than a few minutes.

Herman Cain, the Hurricane, will get past this trial and emerge a great candidate. CRM114 will do his best to laugh it off and point to George Bush, but will eventually realize that Cain is the real deal, and that sugar coated socialism is not the way forward. We need change. We need Herman Cain.

And that's what will happen.

JumpCutz
11-05-11, 01:34 PM
Cain won't be the nominee. -ptth-

Josh-da-man
11-05-11, 01:38 PM
What did he do? Jerk off on a pizza and try to make her eat it?

JasonF
11-05-11, 03:22 PM
America will believe these things, and JasonF, longing to remain a true American, will get behind Cain

Can you please not involve me in your weird presidential slash fiction? Thanks!

Navinabob
11-05-11, 05:20 PM
Polls are showing that the accusations alone are not taking Cain out.

Cain will finally be introducing his wife to the public. This will not be a Spitzer moment (as some will try to spin it) where his wife stands by embarrassingly in the wake of an affair. This will be a woman devoted to her husband years after these incidents took place.

The American public will realize that if this woman can stand by him through whatever the incidents were, perhaps we can too. Perhaps the problems this nation faces are important enough that we can focus on what a candidate will do, rather than unrelated things he did more than 10 years ago.

America will believe these things, and JasonF, longing to remain a true American, will get behind Cain to unseat the monster in the white house who has destroyed everything America stands for despite looking pretty fine in a bathing suit. A little too fine, in fact. The muscles, the moisture... I digress. America will not be distracted from the task at hand for more than a few minutes.

Herman Cain, the Hurricane, will get past this trial and emerge a great candidate. CRM114 will do his best to laugh it off and point to George Bush, but will eventually realize that Cain is the real deal, and that sugar coated socialism is not the way forward. We need change. We need Herman Cain.

And that's what will happen.

Trust me... every Democrat in the US is hoping Herman Cain gets the nod. Everything from his middle eastern racism, his questionable harassment, him being very 1%-like, and embarrassing tax plan is just screaming slam-dunk for Obama.

While Obama has lost a lot of voter enthusiasm, they will show up to stop someone like Cain or Perry. The only chance the Republicans have is if they run someone who the Democrats don't hate.

dork
11-05-11, 05:44 PM
The only chance the Republicans have is if they run someone who the Democrats don't hate.
I nominate Hugo Chavez, although I'd have to run it by c-man's research into the Constitution.

Artman
11-05-11, 07:56 PM
Lol, Thor you had me going there for awhile, I thought you were serious! I can see the sarcasm now. ;)

crazyronin
11-05-11, 09:02 PM
Trust me... every Democrat in the US is hoping Herman Cain gets the nod. Everything from his middle eastern racism, his questionable harassment, him being very 1%-like, and embarrassing tax plan is just screaming slam-dunk for Obama

That silly Negro should have known better than try to improve his station in life.

btw, when did "middle eastern" become a race?

shadowhawk2020
11-05-11, 09:25 PM
That silly Negro should have known better than try to improve his station in life.

btw, when did "middle eastern" become a race?

http://dcmartin.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/race-card.jpg?w=265&h=216

JasonF
11-05-11, 11:42 PM
That image is particularly funny when you think about the fact that the chief defense of Cain from the sexual harassment charges seems to be "he's being attacked because he's black"

Th0r S1mpson
11-05-11, 11:51 PM
I didn't think it was funny to begin with, but it's a little funny when you look at it that way.

Navinabob
11-06-11, 01:21 AM
That silly Negro should have known better than try to improve his station in life.

btw, when did "middle eastern" become a race?

Just saying that today, being a career politician is less likely to piss off the college Liberals then being a executive in a large corporation. I suppose I could have used Islamophobic or anti-Islamic to describe Cain as I suppose it is more accurate, is that better? :shrug:

PopcornTreeCt
11-06-11, 01:51 AM
Ron Paul won the Illinois straw poll. Derp, derp.

Superboy
11-06-11, 04:59 AM
Can you please not involve me in your weird presidential slash fiction? Thanks!

Can you never mention slash fiction again? it does this to me:

<a href="http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=863"><img src= "http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/face_melt.gif" border="0" alt="Animated Gifs" /> </a>

Superboy
11-06-11, 05:00 AM
Just saying that today, being a career politician is less likely to piss off the college Liberals then being a executive in a large corporation. I suppose I could have used Islamophobic or anti-Islamic to describe Cain as I suppose it is more accurate, is that better? :shrug:

He's an imbecile when it comes to foreign policy. Worse than Sarah Palin.

Jason
11-06-11, 11:02 AM
Ron Paul won the Illinois straw poll. Derp, derp.

He certainly is good at busing supporters to straw polls, I'll give him that.

X
11-06-11, 12:07 PM
I wonder who would be more damaging to this country, an "imbecile" about foreign policy or Ron Paul?

Superboy
11-06-11, 02:22 PM
I wonder who would be more damaging to this country, an "imbecile" about foreign policy or Ron Paul?

Probably Ron Paul. He's into witchcraft, and he probably loves the Harry Potter movies, which are brainwashing the children of our good Christian nation into following Satan. Pagans like that shouldn't be allowed into the halls of power, because it makes baby Jesus cry.

X
11-06-11, 03:09 PM
Probably Ron Paul. He's into witchcraft, and he probably loves the Harry Potter movies, which are brainwashing the children of our good Christian nation into following Satan. Pagans like that shouldn't be allowed into the halls of power, because it makes baby Jesus cry.Exactly.

grundle
11-06-11, 04:19 PM
If this is what Herman Cain really said, then I don't see what the big deal is:


http://www.therightscoop.com/herman-cains-inappropriate-comment-revealed/

Herman Cain’s inappropriate comment revealed?

Nov 3, 2011

The Iowa radio host Steve Deace revealed on October 3rd and awkward comment that Herman Cain made while at his radio station. Via Des Moines Register:

On Monday, Deace posted a message on his Facebook page that Cain had “said things to both of my female staffers that at best are professionally awkward if not inappropriate over the last several months.” …

On Monday, Deace told The Des Moines Register he didn’t want to talk publicly about what Cain did that made the women present at his radio interviews uncomfortable.

“I have instructed our employees not to address the situation specifically,” Deace said Monday. “At this point I see no need in dragging them into this individually.” …

During his Oct. 3 broadcast in Iowa, Deace mentioned that Cain made a comment to a woman who was there to report on the radio interview for another news agency.

“Cain said, ‘Darling, do you mind doctoring my tea for me?’” Deace said.

Deace told the Register last month that he believes Cain was talking about adding honey and lemon, but that it was an awkward moment.


And here's what allegedly happened with the other woman. If this is true, then again, I don't see what the big deal is:


http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/cain-details-gesture-led-sex-charge

Cain details gesture that led to sex accusation

Cain said he recalled just one incident. "She was in my office one day, and I made a gesture saying -- and I was standing close to her -- and I made a gesture saying you are the same height as my wife. And I brought my hand up to my chin saying, 'My wife comes up to my chin.'" At that point, Cain gestured with his flattened palm near his chin. "And that was put in there [the complaint] as something that made her uncomfortable," Cain said, "something that was in the sexual harassment charge."

Th0r S1mpson
11-06-11, 04:44 PM
I believe both of those have been posted elsewhere in this thread (or maybe I just read about them in an article a few days ago). In any event, those are the only statements I've heard publicly. Supposedly the allegations are far, far, far, far, far more offensive in nature.

My guess is, there was a pattern of behavior, not just a single incident like these. The women felt uncomfortable given the pattern and also physical suggestion or innuendo, which may not me apparent in direct quotes. They may have been over-reacting, or Cain may have indeed been acting beyond what would be considered appropriate by most. There was a settlement, so clearly we are not looking at an isolated statement, but we really don't know what we're dealing with until more information is available. Continually asking Cain to provide that information is probably not the best course of action, though that certainly depends on your objective.

"You're the same height as my wife :)" is not the same as ":eyebrow: You're the same height as my wife :hump:."

It's time we all demanded more emoticons in reporting.

wmansir
11-06-11, 08:21 PM
I caught the CBS evening news tonight and Cain continuing to not answer any more questions on the issue was the second story. It must have been a very slow news day.

kvrdave
11-07-11, 02:24 AM
I'd need to know more about the settlement before I thought anything of it. I've seen even small school districts pay out small settlements because it is less expensive than going to court, etc.

orangecrush
11-07-11, 10:04 AM
I'd need to know more about the settlement before I thought anything of it. I've seen even small school districts pay out small settlements because it is less expensive than going to court, etc.That is crazy. The only reason anyone ever settles is because they are guilty of all they are being accused of. Same goes with plea deals.

classicman2
11-07-11, 10:46 AM
That is crazy. The only reason anyone ever settles is because they are guilty of all they are being accused of. Same goes with plea deals.

Not true!